All right, Well, when you guys are listening to this, I'm actually already on vacation. We're banking a couple of them. It's something new that we want to do here at the podcast, and I want to give guys a window into, you know, some of the more prominent names in football and kind of how they got where they are and their path there. And so there's gonna be a little longer form, a little different vibe to the podcast than what you guys are normally used to. And I couldn't think of a better guest to have in than a guy that I go a little ways back with one of the best coaches in the NFL now. And I don't know, Sean, if you're still the youngest coach, I think you are, right. Um, okay, so that's rams coach, Sean McVeigh. And I want to start right at the top here, um with just I want you to take yourself back twenty years and I looked this up. I think you would have been going into your freshman year in high school. So if I had told a how a fourteen year old Sean McVeigh than twenty years you'd be, you'd not only be the head coach of an NFL team, But you'd be going into your fourth year as the head coach of an NFL team. How do you think that fourteen year old kid would have responded? Yeah, I don't think uh. I think I would have said no chance, Albert, and and the you know, the thing that's so amazing is you know, when you're at fourteen years old or whatever, you're just loving football. I'm just worried about being a good freshman quarterback at the time, and and trying to see if you can win a starting role on the varsity stuff like that. But what has been interesting when you look back on it, you realize how fortunate I've been to be around great coaches and really where it's given me a chance to accelerate some opportunities. I mean, and I know we'll we'll talk about it, but when you look at the trajectory and some of the things that I've been so lucky to be exposed to at an early age, I don't think I realized how much I was picking up, you know, with my grandfather's history being a general manager for the forty niners and just being around the game. I can remember when they would come out on their walk throughs. They were in the same division as the Falcons when I was growing up, before they realigned the NFC West and things like that, And you go over the Saturday Walkers, just being around the guys, being able to go in the locker room at halftime or before the game, and just kind of having a feel for that atmosphere in that environment, and you never realize until you look back how fortunate and blessed I was, and how many things you pick up just based on being around it subconsciously. What do you remember about those Niners teams because they were sort of like, you're around that. You're a little younger than me, but we're around the same age, and they were like the standard back then. You I mean, you remember the Montana, the young all that stuff, Like, what are your what are your memories being around those teams? Yeah, I'll tell you. It shows how young I am, because I was really you know, the they were really rolling in the early eighties. I was born in eighties six. So the main team that I remember was that ninety four Super Bowl team was young wanted. Uh that was their fifth championship. My grandpa went to five days. He's got five rings which is pretty special. But I was just young enough, you know, when you're eight nine years old watching that team, and I can remember I was so upset they wouldn't let me go to the Super Bowl. My parents both went. They had a ball, but I remember watching them beat up on the Chargers pretty good. And you know, Ricky Waters was awesome that year. Obviously you still had Jerry doing this thing. Um, you know, Steve was outstanding. I can remember I love the Merton Hanks, you know, when he'd get all the inn Tim McDonald was awesome. That was Dion's year where he won Defensive Player of the Year. So that was really what I remember. But even when I was really young, I remember sitting on a bus with Jesse Safulu. I was a huge fan for whatever is and I love Dexter Carter, the returner from Florida State, and they all just treated me so well. And so, you know, you just that's what I thought was the norm, and you're just around it, and that's all you really know. We're all a product of our atmospheres and our environments. But man, it was awesome and and just to be able to kind of soak that up. Uh, you're just so appreciative looking back up the many lessons that you take away from just being around it. Do you I sort of wonder about that too, because I think a lot of people gotta like a path when they're young, right, Like, did you would you have thought like back then that you'd have been more likely to follow your your grandfather's footsteps and maybe go like on the scouting path rather than the coaching path. It's funny us that I think I knew I wanted to be involved in football, and you know, when I was playing in college, you know, I knew I wanted to go and try to be a good college player. But I was realistic about I probably if you want to be involved in football, it's gonna be in the coaching or the scouting round. And I didn't really know which one I wanted to do. I just knew I wanted to be around the game and I loved it so much. And you know, it's so funny. When I graduated from Miami of Ohio, it was actually before I had graduated, I drove over to Indianapolis and interviewed with Gruden and his suite at the Conrad, and um, you know, I was talking with him, and I mean, it's so it's you're you're just thinking to yourself, man, how blessed am I that I had a job with the Bucks before i'd even graduated, uh at at college. It was more of okay, they were looking for, really an assistant to the quality control code coach. I got there and uh interviewed with him, and really it was more of a result of my grandfather's legacy reputation that they were almost kind of doing me a favor bringing me on because my last name. And as long as you don't go into the interview and and just seem like a total scrub, I feel like you've got a chance to get the job that they were looking for. Well, and we're gonna get to all of that, but I do want to start with you as a player. And I remember a late night in Indianapolis, and I remember being around you and we had another I'm not gonna name him here, I'm not gonna put him out, but he said, did you know Sean beat out Calvin Johnson for Georgia State Player of the Year in two thousands of what had been like oh three or oh four? Right? And that's true, right, because I remember going to my phone and I remember looking and I think that that was correct. Right, Yeah, yeah, so people, I said the guy that ran the voting committee was Tim McVeigh, my dad. I don't how anybody uh could have messed that one up. But it was a really it was a result of the success that our team had. And I mean that. I think there's a reason why he's gonna be a first ballot Hall of Famer and why I'm coaching so uh, he is the man. He was awesome. We actually, you know, he played at Sandy Creek, I was at Marish. Certainly there was no confusion on who was the better prospect and the better player. I just have to be on the team that won the state championship and I think I was the beneficiary of that as a result of just playing quarterback. Did you get to know him at all? You know what? We I got to know him a couple of times we were at the Atlanta Touchdown Club banquets, and I mean, he's exactly what everyone says, stud true first class guy. He's really close with Ted Rath, who now is the head strength coach for the Eagles with us the last couple of years, and they were together in Detroit, and everybody that's been around him just can't say anything but great stuff. And in the little bit of interaction that we did have as high school seniors, Uh, he was exactly as advertised, did you Like? Alright, so, like you're a really good high school player, you go to Miami, Ohio, which I mean that's not it's not like Ohio State Alabama, but it's a that's a really good level of football. And I think like when you got there probably would have been right around when Ben was graduating, right, so the program had a profile. Um, you had some injury issues right in college and kind of that derailed things to some degree for you. It did. Yeah, you know, because you go, you expect to go and do a lot of good things. And in Miami had just come off, like you said, it was Ben's last year. They finished tenth in the country. Terry Hevner was the head coach, Shame Montgomery was the O C and and I really enjoyed getting into those guys through the recruiting process and you come in and you know, I read shirted, but then you're you find a way to where you're like the third of the fourth receiver as a freshman as a sophomore, and you expect that trajectory to go upwards. And my freshman year, I was returning to kick against Northern Illinois ended up breaking my ankle missing the rest of that season. That was in like the fifth week of the season or sixth game, and I just had some issues with that where I was getting stress fractures, and it really, however you want to look at it, I wasn't able to stay healthy enough to do the things that you expected to do. But I think some of those adversities and some of those setbacks were really good for me to get a perspective because I had never really dealt with anything like that. Everything had always gone so well, and I think in a lot of instances, some of the disappointments that I that I, you know, had to go through through my collegiate career has helped me be a little bit more resilient. And coaching, did you ever think about like what would have happened? Because that's a I mean, that's a program you can go to the NFL from that program. You know, it's not unusual that guys get into a camp at the very least a guy, you know, a lot of guys get drafted, but there are a lot of guys from that program make it into a camp and that sort of thing. Did you ever think like, like, I'm sure like to some degree you thought about that, like what might have happened if you hadn't gotten hurt? Yeah, I think so, But I also think that had it not happened, you know, it would have not created the opportunity that I had with the Bucks. You know, when you look back on it, you really are such a I feel so fortunate because the timing, you know, when we go through and we talk about some of these things, and before we jumped on here, I was really kind of reflecting back on how lucky I've been. I mean, you talk about right place at the right time, Those things do have to align, you know. I get I've worked hard and things like that, but I'm not naive to the fact that I have been a product of my grandpa establishing that family legacy. But then, you know, if if it's a year later and I don't have that injury, you know, maybe I don't get a chance to get on with the Bucks because John's doing Monday night football, you know, and then Raheem's the head coach the following year. So there's a lot of things that I think you could look back on, but I wouldn't change it because I think the trajectory of all the things I've been so fortunate to have experienced up to this point would probably be very different. Okay, so I've heard the story of the Indie dinner. I know how close like Oxford is and it has a pretty easy drive. Whose idea was that? Was that just something you came up with on your own or did somebody encourage you to do that as far as which were going to indie and like you know, like the whole idea of like you know, setting all that up and everything. Yeah. So so really what happened was it was an interview that that basically I was. I was talking to John and he was basically like, all right, well what do you want to do and kind of like what we were talking about earlier, you want to get involved in football. And just so happened that Nate Hackett was leaving to go to the Bills and they were really looking for a quality control coach. But Tim Berbernick, who is in Oakland with John now, basically was so unbelievably efficient that he was able to do both roles, and they were looking just to find him, find an assistant for him that he could train. So I went over there and met him at the Comrade Conrad, And like I said, I drove over there with one of my buddies. We stayed for the night, and then I got up the next morning and ended up, you know, spending probably about an hour or so with him in his hotel. Talked a little football, and and really it was more of are you willing to come in work, be humble, do whatever you're asked? I mean it was it was all encompassing too. Once you get more proficient to draw and cards are breaking down, but you might be running errands for the coaches. So wherever you can kind of create some value and have, you know, a humble approach to just work hard and be loyal to the guys is exactly what that role entailed. Because I know you did you do you leave there? Did you leave there knowing you had the job? Pretty much? I did it. It was pretty surreal to know that, Hey, as soon as you graduate in the next month or so, and then I went right into after I graduated, I came in the middle of O T A s in that offseason with the Bucks and it was, man, it was amazing experience. It made me realize, like when I look back on my I mean I did not know anything. You know, you think you got all the answers and you know nothing. And what a great opportunity to be around somebody like John And you know, there was so many great coaches on that staff that really kind of put their arm around you and you learned what the game of football is all about and kind of learned it from a twenty two man perspective. Was there someone on that staff that you worked like really closely with. I know sometimes like QCs will be kind of hooked up with a coordinator, a position coach and to like look after a young guy, Like was there somebody you were hooked up with on that staff? Yeah? You know I mentioned Tim Bourbon. He was great. And I'll tell you who immediately. I mean, there were so many guys, whether it's Rich Besaccia, Bill Muir, I mean, Money Kiffin, Raheem Morris, all those guys were so great to me. But my interaction I was really close where I can remember Greg Olsen was awesome to me, and I'll never forget the way he treated me just for no reason other than he's just a great guy. And that always resonated with me. And it was a huge reason why when I was fortunate enough to get the job here, one of the first people you want to be able to have as a part of your staff if he wanted to be here was Greg Olsen. And we only we lost him after a year where he's the coordinator for the Raiders now. But um, it just goes back to epitomize. You know, when when you treat people the right way, it comes back around to you. And I had so many guys that were great to me, but Greg Olsen especially stood out just the way that he was with me from day one. He could see who this is a guy coming right out of college, doesn't know anything, and on and and he really went out of his way to kind of just help me and be able to answer questions in a way that was very comforting. I feel like most coaches have like a really good story of something crazy they did, like picking somebody up from the airport or whatever it might be. Do you have something from that first year that you sort of always remember is sort of the off the wall thing that happened. I think there's a lot of different stories, probably some that you can say and somebody can't say on here, but I'll never forget um, you know now this kind of these are coming some of the things that that I'd probably get irritated with as well. And you know, you never really know as the boss. But my office I was basically like in the secretary's role, So you know John's office was was I. I had an office kind of in the middle of you know, in the hallway if you will. John had double doors that would close at the Bucks facility if you if you I'm sure you've been over there, and I think it's probably updated now. But I got there early and I was popping my gum and uh and he had his door open, and you know, I didn't even realize it, but I was kind of just chewing and popping my gum, and out of nowhere you hear, hey, who's out there popping there? And I'm like this, go away. Paul Kelly's assistant, come front, Hey, what the hell's wrong with you man? Popping your gum? So, needless to say, as the last time I ate or chewed gum anywhere in close ear shot of coach Screwden. Didn't want to irritate him early in the morning when he's probably trying to think. But there's uh, there's a lot of stories. I mean, grunt work, running, dry cleaning, whatever it is that you can do. It's uh, it's one of those deals that I think is a good humbling experience and something that you don't ever want to forget because, uh, it was. It was awesome. Okay. So, like I guess sort of like one of the ways you like earn your wings when you're coaching as a coach too, is the first time you get fired. And so it happened to you pretty early on in your right away. So what do you remember, what do you remember about getting about that experience? You know, you all right, like I'm in the NFL, and you probably like like like whatever you need, like I'll do whatever you need, like you know, and you're really eager to get into the business and everything else. And then just like that, I mean, what was it probably eight months later getting a phone call. What do you remember about that experience? Well, I remember it's I joke about it now because Rahde Morris is one of my best friends, and I say, hey, what what kind of bs is that one of my best friends the only guy to fire me? So, um, you know what happened. It was really late in the process, Albert that there was a transition where I can remember I was doing an offseason project for John on some studies around the league, you know, putting together you know New Orleans quick game and you know some of the stuff some of the teams that we're doing a great job with their movement. Uh, just different studies that typically what you do in the offseason. I had left the office a little bit later. John was leaving to go take his wife Sendy to a movie on Friday afternoon, and I got a call from one of my friends. They said, oh, I'm so sorry. I'm like, what are you talking about there? Like, you know, uh, Bruce and John just got let go Bruce Sound and John Gruden And that was really the relationships that I had. So I had a feeling I'm like shocked, and then you know, you're kind of just like, wow, what's going on? You don't really have a clue of how any of this stuff works. But I did have a feeling that that probably meant that I would be out of a job as well, just because of the close affiliations that I had with those guys, and unfortunately kind of dragged on a little bit where you know, Raheem and Mark Dominic then took over, and I had great relationships with those guys, but they decided to go different directions and it all worked out for the best because that was then John did his f f c A. And that, really, Albert, is when I learned. You know, I was just really running errands and I came in so late with O. T. A. S. That I never had a chance to really foundationally learn offense defense, you know, and and understand the intricacies because you're just coming in not in the right time for to get the right learning trajectory. And that opportunity where we would go over to it was right across the street where the Tampa Bay Lightning played. It's I don't know what it's called now, it's a St. Pete Time's Forum. We get over there early in the morning and we go for about six hours and that's really where I learned everything that I know. At that f f c A origin, I mean, Chip Kelly came over there. John brought in so many good guests, and it coincided with a few months later that's when he took the Monday Night football gig. But Jay Gruden and I, I mean, I think Jay would probably tell you this too. He was really helping us prepare to go coach in the UFL where Jay was going to be the coordinator. I was coaching the running backs and the tight ends and everything. The foundation of what I know about football was really learned in those meetings. And and that's something that I'll never forget. I mean, it's equivalent to get your doctorate, uh you know, at a at a great university like a Yale or an m y U, stuff like that in football. Being able to learn from John Gruden and some of the other great coaches he brought in, that to me, stands out as one of the best things I could have ever done. So were you like, was John pay you? Then? Like? How did that? We were just helping him? It's so here, it's funny. So this is this is this really goes to show you how instrumental this was. I had an opportunity to get on as a g a at some places, you know, I joked with coach Maron that he wouldn't hire me as a g A when he was at Syracuse. We were joking about it at the league meetings last year. But um, I had known Nate Hackett just through some different relationships, and there was a chance I was gonna go to Syracuse, but the opportunity to really learn from John when he decided he was gonna do this, um basically coaching clinic, and then he was really deciding am I gonna come back and take a job in coaching or am I gonna go do the Monday night football thing. But my dad was great enough to say and to recognize something that I didn't. He's like, you know, this is gonna be such a rare opportunity. I'll help you. In the meantime, I wasn't getting paid from the Bucks anyway, a little bit of a severance package, but but really he's like, I'll help you pay you know, your your rent and and get through your bills and stuff like that. And then that was where there was probably a two month time period where you knew you were gonna get a job in the UFL, but whether that got off or not, and I was gonna actually get a pay raise working in the UFL, but that still had a couple of months until we got started. So my dad was was awesome about being able to help me get through that time, knowing how valuable the time spent with John would be, and looking back on it, I'm not sure what would have happened had I not had that, But that, to me is that's as important a step as as anything that's occurred, being able to spend that intimate time to where you're basically interviewing every day Albert. I can remember he crushed me about my circles the first days I get up on the board, and you know, he's like, your circles are terrible. So you know what I did. I got a white board and I went back and I was practicing at my house to make sure that your presentation is sharper. And then he, you know, he did install the play maybe two days later, it might be that day, and say, hey, get up there and teach me trips right seventy two, zap x out, you know, and and go through just the way that you would teach all eleven if you're installing it. And those types of things are just so valuable and and and really it helped me grow as a coach more than I could have ever you know, understood in the meantime, But looking back on it's like, Wow, what a great opportunity that was that I didn't appreciate as much as I should have in the present. That's crazy. So you're basically getting like one on one like it is like graduate It's almost like a graduate course for football, right, like one on one with a super Bowl winning coach, you know what it really is like it was basically when you see those Gruden QB camps similar to that, like what he would do. He's got all these films, these preparations, he teaching you the intricate details. He was just looking at it from a big picture lens for coaches. But the guys that were there all the time, myself, Jay Gruden. I mean you look at the ability to spend that much time with those two guys, and then there would be people that would be in and Outum the most part, those were the three people that were the most consistent from a coaching standpoint. But he got me exposure to people. You know, Jim Haslet came over there a bunch. I mean, there was there was just so many guys that I got a chance to learn from that. I'll never forget that experience. Okay, So you're probably like at that point, like after doing that for a couple of months, you're probably like raring to get back out out and coach again. Right, and the chance there is there, you know what's coming in the UFL. Like you said, what was it like coaching there? Like, what do you like because obviously we've seen these leagues pop up, like with the XFL, the a FL last couple of years. What was that like coaching in that league? You know what it was like? It was an awesome experience and and really you know, I mean you look at the coaching staff that we had. So j Gruden was the o C. I was on that staff. I kill yourd who's the receiver's coach for the Steelers, was also on our staff. Uh. You look at the defensive side of the ball. Jim Haslett was the de coordinator and the head coach. There were so many you know, Bill Bradley, we had. We had a bunch of great coaches on there. We had fun, but we lived at a unbelievable resort at Shingle Creek, hotel in Orlando. We lived there full time, So it's basically equivalent to what a training camp experience entails when you go away, but you're staying there through the whole season, and there's four teams. The other team, the New York team, was actually staying in that hotel, but we were, I mean, it was it was awesome. You just realized the unbelievable amount of resources that the NFL provides that just you take for granted, but it gave you. I mean, it was just it was equivalent where it was high level ball. There was still some defensive restrictions, but football is still football, and guys are as your meeting, you're practicing, Uh, you go out, you have some fun and you know, there was only one other game a week, so I was doubling as the quality control coach for each side. But it was pretty easy because you only had one other game to break down and uh, and you're practicing and and it was you know, we went undefeated through the regular season. Then unfortunately we lost in the championship that year to uh the Jim Fossils team in the Las Vegas Motor. But we spent a week in Las Vegas getting ready for that game. I think there was a lot of guys coaches including that probably had a little too much fun. It's uh, you know, it's funny like when you started like like explaining that, Like I sort of remember like covering high school sports and how much I learned from having jobs where I had to do everything right. Like, so you go to the game, like, no one's handing your stats, you gotta keep the stats. No one's telling you who to go to to too after the game. You gotta figure that out your own. And so I would think like in a job like that, like in the UFL, where the staff smaller, the budget smaller, you're probably learning from having to do more at that age, right, No, And that's such a good point, like it you know, you don't take for granted the things that you do in the NFL, and I think not skipping those steps to where hey, it's breaking down every little detail, it's doing the things that typically are already done for you because you have so many different people involved at the NFL level that it does give you an appreciation and a perspective. But then I also think you're learning the right ways. You know, one of the things that I think is really important that I tell our coaches now, Albert is, hey, you can you have these unseen hours where you can accumulate experience faster than other people based on how you work. But it is still vital to get exposure to those different jobs as you work your way up the ladder so that you don't skip steps. And I think you know that part of it for me. Where you're doing and you're the assistant to the assistance with the Bucks, then you're able to learn a little bit more about football so that you can then get involved and have some understanding. Then you're getting a chance to learn how to coach, how to communicate best with the players, how to be able to see the game in live action and make those corrections, and and those those first three years we're so valuable for me and Um you know, I I know it was so beneficial. And then you get a chance to take the next steps and the people you're around there and like I said, it's almost embarrassing how lucky I've been. So how does the Redskins opportunity come about? Because now you're twenty four years old, you've done the job, You've done the work with John Um like all that valuable experience you got there. You've got you know, a year basically doing a bunch of different things in the UFL. You've got like kind of the years the go for um in Tampa, Like how does Washington come about? Yeah, so again it comes back to my grandpa. So that ninety four season, the only season that I was really young enough to remember, when they won the Super Bowl. Guy named Mike Shanahan was the other and he and my grandfather established a great rapport and relationship. They had kept in touch. It was, you know, obviously Mike was a very sought after coach where he could kind of pick his job when he when he was out that previous year, and so when he got the job, and then Bruce Allen actually got the general manager job before then while he was the GM when I was in Tampa. So Bruce mentions to Mike. Mike says, that name sounds familiar. Let's bring him in for an interview. So you go in for an interview. Well, who happened to be a quality control coach for John Gruden when he started out as well in a hid and our ability to speak the same language, coming from a similar background, it was really seamless to where you know, I can remember I go in there and and Kyle was just they finished up where he was definitely gonna be the o C finished up with the Texans, and he was bringing Matt la floor with him. I met both those guys. I interviewed with coach Hanahan and Kyle. We went for a couple of hours. But the ability for Kyle and I to seamlessly be able to communicate to one another because he had had some of the same experiences that I had had with John and the exposure to football and there was a lot of foundational parts of the offense that we were very similar to where he felt like, all right, this will be a quick study. And they ended up offering me the job on the spot. But it's it's a result of you get an opportunity because of my grandpa, but then those experiences where you're crossing similar past makes it a seamless transition. And uh, and that was really how the Washington thing, uh, that that that opportunity came about. I remember they offered me a three your contract for seventy eighty and ninety and I was so jecks rich, Oh you're rich at twenty four years old. You're like, like, you're loaded if you if you're making seventy grand a year, did you ever figure out what like how you won the interview? Did you? Did they? I think it was basically just the comfort level of being able to communicate with while uh some of the things that you know, when they asked some questions. I think just that the command of of the information. And really I think it was more than anything, there was a comfortable rapport that existed between myself, coach Shannahan and Kyle and um and I think you know when you're saying, hey, we're looking I was. I was interviewing for a quality control role where you're basically gonna assist the receivers, You're gonna draw the pass game, do all the breakdowns. How easy can you make everybody else's job that our position coaches or for Kyle, you know, being a direct liaison to to make it as seamless as possible for him to put the game plans together. And I think they felt like that would be something that would work out, and I think it did. Would you, like, look, just I think this would be helpful for a young coach, right, what do you bring in the interview with you, like at that age, like what do you bring with you? You know, I think really what's what's important is you can have all these cool presentations whatever I really just bought, brought my resume, and then a couple of things that I had done at the UFL level, whether it's a playbooks, you know, just some different things, or you want to be able to at that level demonstrate your computer skills. Hey, here's some examples of how I've used Microsoft Video or Excel or some of the reports. So you want to have examples if they ask. But I'm a big believer that you know, when you interview somebody, you're really talking ball on the board and off the tape. And then I I like to be able to get out on the grass and and and see all right if i'm you know, I can remember last year and he's one of our great coaches, Eric Henderson, when we were getting a new defensive line coach, Joe Berry and I we took him out on the field and he was taking us through individual drills and hitting us with pads and stuff like that. So I think you want to say, how can I create an atmosphere in an environment that is most closely associated with what you're gonna be asked to do, and that's coach players. That's you know, be able to identify problems on the film, now you solve it. But in that role, particularly Albert, it's more about all right, understanding football, but then demonstrating your organizational skills specific to all the things that you do on the computer to to seamlessly allow the other coaches to do their jobs at a high level. What was your job that first year, because you were still like you were still at the quality control level that first year in Washington, I was. I was offensive quality control coach, uh. And I also was, you know, I assisted the receivers, so like when we would go out and practice, I would assist Keenan mccartel, who is the receiver coach. And then actually at the end of that very first year, John Embery, who was our tight ends coach Colorado job and so of course, hey, you're thinking, man, uh, you obviously want to get a chance to coach and run your own position meetings and coach a position group. So I asked coach Shanny and there was a month left in the season, and I said, hey, I've love to get the opportunity. He was great enough to John to say, you've got this job, you go get ahead on recruiting. So John actually left with a month left in this season to get a jump start on putting together his staff at Colorado, getting his recruiting class together. And so I just doubled the responsibilities where I ended up coaching the tight ends and then being able to still do all the other things because I wanted to show, hey, I got a month long opportunity in essence, interview for the job and compete for it then then do it that way. And fortunately, um, it was a great experience. It was a little bit more work, but it was so worth it in the end because then it ended up leading to the following year, I was a full time tight ends coach, right, so it's like basically almost like a tryout like for a bit. Yeah yeah, so all right, Like what do you like when you look back at like the end in Washington, like the end of of Mike and Kyle and in Washington, And it was such a like I can remember the twelve season and how crazy that was. And it seemed like every single week, you know, like you guys were coming up with something new, and then the way Robert played, you know, there was just such peaks and valleys um from one year to the next. Like, what are the big lessons you take from um? You know, maybe some of the stuff that Kyle and Mike implemented in twelve, how it worked in twelve, and then maybe where things kind of went the other way in thirteen. Yeah. I think the first thing that stood out is as soon as we knew that we were gonna move up to the two slot, and it looked like the cults are gonna take Luck and we're gonna take Griffin. You know, Mike Sanon and Kyle there's such visionaries. And I think that's what stood out was all Right, immediately you start studying all these other offenses that have implemented portions and parts of the zone read philosophy, whether it's Cam Newton at Carolina when he was really doing a great job, some of the stuff Tebow did at Denver. We watched some of the stuff that Robert had done in college. But I mean just in an uh an an ordinate amount of time that we spent really studying that, and you could see Colin Ike had a vision of what they wanted it to look like, to really build the offense around the skill set that Robert has um and it was amazing, And I mean I can remember we threw for over a thousand yards on one play action concept alone, you know, the short in breaking route, and he did it out of the pistols, some of the offset gun. But it was a really fun year. What people forget to we ran the football so well and and couted such a great job, and Mike with the design of the offense, and Chris First or the offensive line coach. It was a really great reflection of the adjustability though because you had learned some things in those first couple of years, because it was the third season with the Redskins, that Robert year was and comes in and what people forget too is we were we were I can't remember exactly, but I want to say we were four and six at the bye and we won sixth straight coming out of the bye to get to tenants six to win the division. But it was just such a great job by those guys. You know, Robert made a bunch of plays and it was really fun season that you know, you kind of looked back on and how different the way that we operated was uh with Robert in that team compared to the first couple of years where we were still in a fishing offense. And I think that's a great reflection of what great coaches do. And Alan Mike had the vision to say, hey, let's make it about our players, let's adjust the system accordingly, and then you see what the results are when when when you have good guys that can see that. All right, So, like you said, there was one concept that you guys through for a thousand yards. I would guess that reflects that, like the league wasn't really ready for what you guys were doing. Like was there any question then, like is this gimmicky? Because I just remember, you know, and I had my roommate when I was in my twenties. I remember he you know, he coached at Northeastern up here in Boston, and he coached against Chip Kelly there and he was defensive, like he was limited earning his coach at the time, but he was, you know, working a week ahead like a quality control coach would, and he looked at the stuff that Chip was doing and he was like, that's either the most complicated thing I've ever seen or the least complicated thing I've ever seen, and I can't tell which, and because they were doing so many different things to dress it up and run it fast. And I remember him saying to me, He's like, I think this stuff would work in the NFL. I don't know why it wouldn't, you know, but I think like when you guys did that stuff right, there was still that like gimmick, Oh this is gimmicky. This is college. This is like a lot of that stuff was sort of seen that way. Did you were you guys worried about that going into that year or was there just a feeling this is gonna work, like this is not gonna be like we're gonna be able to pull this off. Yeah, I think it's I think it's something one of the I mean shooting you look back, even just the last couple of years. I think what you realize is the league goes and trends. Uh, It's always about adjusting and adapting. And I think Kyle always had such a great feel for, Okay, this will work, but we won't be able to lean on this quite as much, and in order to be able to be a fully efficient offense in all phases, right, here's the areas we need to improve. And I think he was always able to identify and understand the realistic approach of yeah, we can do some of these things. You know, like when you play with when you're just running the quarterback period right, Like most defenses are designed, especially in the NFL where they're used to play eleven on ten, they're not having to account for that extra gap or that extra uh runner. When you have the quarterback as part of the equation, it changes up all their fits and it really gives them some issues. Well on the on that's a positive. Well, the negative is is that you've got a chance that your quarterback is gonna be more susceptible to injuries. He's gonna take hits that you probably would prefer not to have to be involved in. So I think we knew that it was something that, yeah, this caught some guys off guard, and Robert's ability as a runner did regulate a lot of the coverage contours and things that we got where it's hey, if you've got to stop the run and this is how you want to do it, it's gonna open up some voids on the back end in behind those second level defenders, but still in front of a post safety and we got a lot of regulated looks as a re all to that. But like anything else, there's always an evolution. These defensive coordinators are so good. I mean, you look at even just some of the things that we've experienced in the three year trajectory with the RAMS. You've got to adjust a depth, You've got to have a philosophy, and similar to what I think Chip did such a great job with is hey, this is an identity, but we want to be able to still change up. It's not always going fast. It's like a picture changing up as pitches to try to always keep defensive coordinators and defensive players feeling like they're on their heels. So then things sort of and you mentioned the quarterback getting hurt. That happens at the end of that year, and things went sideways, um that last year in Washington. And it's funny, Sean, because I that staff has remembered so like I remember I covered a lot of the of Mike's dismissal there and I just remember how crazy that was. And now I think history looks back on that staff a lot differently because of the success that so many of you guys have add what was the environment like in the building? Like, what was it like for a young kid who's still figuring it out, you know, and figuring out who he is as a coach. What was the environment that building like on a day to day basis. Yeah, so there was the you know, there was some of the things you see in the media, but I never felt that because we all love football, and I'll tell you what it was. It was a great opportunity that you're working with some of the best friends that you have, where you're positively pushing each other. We didn't always get the results that we wanted, especially that last year, but what we all had a consistent approaches. We love football, We're gonna just come back to work role or sleeves up, try to put together the best game plan and really just push one another in a great way. And even though it didn't get the results, I can tell you that third teen season was one of the best best growth opportunities where you're saying, hey, you're around Kyle Shanahan, you're around Matt Lafleur, you get a chance of being around a Mike McDaniel at Chris First or I mean we had so many great coaches on that staff that really under stone football. We positively pushed one another to say, do we really understand the game from a variety of different perspectives and are we trying to really stay up to speed with some of these other coaches. And I really do believe that that we had such a great opportunity to push one another in a positive way, and in spite of not getting some of the results or whatever that narrative would have been, it was an incredible experience that I think we'll all chaerish for the rest of our coaching careers. Yeah, it's funny because I you know, I remember the way like some people in the league received you guys, like and that, like and I know, like I know it might be like kind of funny. Yeah yeah, So like like I I want, like the one thing I've always sort of wondered, did you guys know how good that group was at the time? Like why Like it's easy to look back at it now, right and see you're in the head coach of the Rams, and Kyle's the head coach of the Niners, and mass the head coaches the Packers. Everybody knows how good Mike McDaniel is like, did you guys know how good that group was while it was going on? I think I would say this, I knew that when I first got around Kyle, I just had such a huge amount of respect for him. Then Mike McDaniel comes in. Matt la Flora and I were always so close and I was always so impressed with his command and his ability to understand the ins and outs of of what Kyle's system entailed. Uh, I would say, I knew those guys were great coaches, and Kyle really, you know, because of his role. He was at the forefront where you're really learning. And I think when you have somebody like that that you're trying to say, all right, if this is what it looks like to be really good, this is how he's preparing, this is the lens that he's seen the game through. I think he helped us all grow because of what we watched him as a younger coach. Showed the example of one of the guys that's at the forefront of some of the creativity, UH, putting defenses and just really conflict situations, snap in and snap out, being able to have an identity with how you want to operate offensively. So I think I did know and had appreciation that Kyle was really special, and then that he had done such a great job of identifying great coaches like Mike McDaniel, like a Matt Lafleur, that then they get their opportunities to continue to grow once they're giving some ownership and autonomy and uh. And I think I was a beneficiary of being around all those guys without a doubt. You know, Chris first, there's a guy too. For me that was awesome, I mean, especially for me being a background as a quarterback and receiver. And then you start coaching tight ends where you're having to understand the intricacies of playing with your hand in the dirt, how you're coaching some of these techniques in the run game and in protection, and the way that he helped me really learned that phase of it was so beneficial in the long run of understanding the run game, how you're coaching strikes, footwork, all those little things. And he's he's a really good I mean, he's a great coach as well. So that's so interesting that you bring that up. And this is sort of off on a tangent a little bit, but uh, you know, I know the obvious path is quarterbacks coach coordinator, but the one that you took has sort of become a more common one, I know, like Tim Kelly in Houston, Arthur Smith and Tennessee. Like it does seem like that tight end coach role is a really like like like just a good one to to sort of like a good line to have on your resume before you become a coordinator. Totally. I think it's a great hybrid opportunity, especially when your background, Albert is more in that skill position world, because you get exposure to upfront play in the run game and the past protection stuff. Like like what, no other position unless you're coaching old line gives you an opportunity to do but you're involved in all phases. Like That's why I think in a lot of instances, you know, sometimes your tight ends have to be so smart because they're asked to contribute as run blockers, they're all over the formation in the past game, and then in some instances they're they're contributed in protection if you're gonna play action or max pro stuff, and so the exposure that you get is so beneficial to just have a big picture Lens and I know for me it was great. You know, Shane Waltern's the guy who's now our past game coordinator that he was a tight end coach Wes Phillips on our staff. I think his big picture knowledge from being a quarterback in college. Now he's been coaching tight ends for a handful of years. I think those are awesome places to train guys to really be able to take the next step to be a coordinator because you're exposed to all eleven in some form or fashion. So it gives you an appreciation for being able to coach the details. Now you're twenty eight years old and like it looks like you might be getting fired for a second time, but that doesn't wind up going down. So what do you remember about January two thousand and fourteen. You go through everything, Mike's gone, they're they're going through the process of picking the next head coach, and you're sort of like, was there an end in between period there where you didn't know what was gonna happen? Yeah, So so it was really this was such a weird thing because so many of my best friends end up getting let go and when coach Sanahan was moving on, UM Bruce Allen. He met with the coaching staff, and some guys were given the opportunity to move forward and basically say go seek out other jobs, and then others were kind of excuse me in a waiting period, and you know, you see the rumors or you know, when you're getting the inside scoop and I'm following your Twitter, you know, you gotta that maybe Jay Gruden has a chance to be one of the guys. And it was strange because here I am a part of this staff that we didn't do the things necessary and I was every bit as responsible as anyone else. And then it leads to, Okay, you're waiting. You've got a good relationship with some people that are still in the building. They might keep you around, they might not. Then Jay Gruden gets hired, and as a result of that, where you should be in a situation where you're moving on, you actually get promoted. And that was really weird for me, where you're so excited, Albert to get an opportunity to be an offensive coordinator when you're twenty seven years old and working with Jay Gruden, who is one of my closest friends and we had kept in touch from our relationship at the United Football League. But still you see some of your best friends that end up having to move on and go other places. And I was a part of that staff, but then I end up becoming a beneficiary as a result of my relationship with Jake Gruden coming in as the head coach, And that was that was really uh it was. It was weird because you're so excited, but then you're also like, man, you just it's it's it just felt weird because you felt like you should be a part of that other group. Let go because I was on that staff. Yeah, I mean, like I'd imagine it. It could even like strain relationships, right like where it's like, oh, what the hell, Like why did he make it? And I didn't? And it didn't because there are such great guys on the other end. But when I try to say, all right, let's give the perspective of what if you were on the flip side, man, that that would be hard and and that those are that this this is such a humbling league and there's so many different things that change here and in year out. But but you talk about, like we were talking about the blessings that I've had with the timing and everything. I mean, what are the odds that I'm on that staff we end up getting let go? I'm a part of that staff, but then because of who gets hired as the head coach, we have a close relationship. It leads to an actual promotion. It was It was definitely strange, but it was very exciting to get that opportunity at the same time. Okay, so you had to wait a year before you call plays, right, like didn't you? Yeah? Like so like how does that like work? Like what was it? Just? All? Right? Like you're in front of the room and yere one, you're kind of maybe working on the game plan, but now you're handing a lot of it off to Jay, Like how did that like evolution go? Were you were you involved in play calling that first year? Like how did that? Like how did you because I'm assuming it's not just like all right, here's the play sheet, right, like exactly how did that all happen? Yeah? So here's what I would say, Albert. You know, Jay Gruden was unbelievable to me. What he did was he was protecting me and I never realized that at the time, where hey, you're twenty seven years old, Uh, he gave me an opportunity to be an o C. We had a great rapport relationship, but he also knew that, hey, i'm the I'm an offensive background head coach. My job is to be involved in the offense. Uh, And I want to help Sean grow, but I don't want to put him out there too soon, you know. And in a lot of instances we did it together, if you will, Albert that first year, where hey, it's a collaboration of you in the offensive coaching staff putting together a game plan that you feel like it's the best way to attack a team, but somebody's got to make the decision. But they're still ongoing dialogue throughout the course of a game to where you know, JA so great about empowering other people. So that first year, really he kind of helped and and really let me grow. But but he was the he was the main play caller that first year, and then the second year I just kind of went into it where hey, if he gives me an opportunity, I want to be ready. And he kind of had given me the chances that first year of calling plays in practice or calling preseason games, and so I didn't know whether or not I wanted to do I knew I wanted to do it, but I didn't know whether I was gonna get an opportunity to do it or not. But I wanted to make sure that if he felt like that was the right decision, I was ready. And it's funny, so I called those prec's in games, and really he never told me I was the play caller. It just, you know, he just kind of I just kind of went about it where, hey, if I get this opportunity, I'm gonna do it. And then when we played Miami that first game, I was he was like he ready to go, and and Jay was still so helpful and he was really protecting me because we were coming off a tough season. Were four and twelve our first year, and it was a scenario where you gotta win, and he was always so protective where it probably wasn't known that I was calling a good portion of the plays until later on once we started having success. And that's like that epitomizes who Jay is because it wasn't great early on in that first year, I'm calling plays. We had some success, but it wasn't until that you liked that game where we were flipped the switch. Cousins went off in that game against the Bucks, and then we went on a pretty good run where we ended up winning the division. But Jay was so good about helping and he was instrumental in our offensive success. But it wasn't until later on, when we actually got into the offs and stuff like that, that it became known that I was calling the plays. And that was because Jay wanted to protect me from probably some of the criticism. And that's something that I don't think anybody could ever appreciate more than I do now looking back on how good he was and kind of letting me grow into it, and he was still always there. I'll never forget. I mean, he made a couple of timely calls where hey, I might have had the headset, but you know, he's recognizing when we're playing the Bears, we're gonna get his zero blitz. He says, call a screen. He would throw a screen at Chris Thompson and he walks in. So it was still a collaboration. But that first year calling plays was pretty fun. And he still never told me I was a play caller. Was there? Uh? Like I was gonna ask you if there was like a like a game where it was just like and you felt like, okay, I've got it. As a play caller, maybe it was that you like a game like was there do you remember like like whether it was a moment, a series of events again, whatever it was, was there something like where you felt like, all right, like I'm comfortable, like I'm in my element, I can do this. Yeah, it was that game, you know that really was a combination of we went down, I mean and we were down. We were down twenty four points, and I can promise you are players. I felt this way. I even got that same sense from J like if we just if we just don't beat ourselves and we just sustained some drives and start making some plays, you know, we're gonna be able to We're getting some regulated looks, We're gonna be able to move the ball and score some points. And and really you kind of don't, you don't look at all right, I gotta get I gotta come back from a twenty four point deficit. Let's just chop away a little bit of a time. And it's always about the players, But I remember just having a clarity and feeling like you're in the flow and as a result of all, right, you're getting into a rhythm because you're able to make a bunch of decisions, because you're sustaining drives, you're converting on third downs, you're hitting some explosives the run games working, and when you're just really kind of I always feel like the best best rhythm I've been in as a play caller when you're not even looking at your sheet, you're just watching the game unfold and you're kind of just able to call it based on the feel of how your players are a really balling and then how that equates to just sound quiet in mind, good decisions and it's probably known like you got like like Jay as your back right like, because it's like, I guess the ultimate sign of that would be like the dude who like, now you're like this fired tight Ends, this potentially fired tight Ends coach, and he had enough faith in you to ignore that, right, like, to ignore that you're the position like no, no, no, I know him and I know how good he is. I'm actually going to promote him, like so that had to be like super empowering too. It's unbelievable, Albert. I mean, it's when you're saying you're twenty seven years old at the time. You know, you this is your background as a tight ends coach on a team that that didn't do well the previous year. And I think it just shows it was something that I was so grateful for and he always was so supportive and I realized now looking back on it, I said, Jay, man your patience with me, I said, if I was now knowing what I know, I would have fired me as the for you know, doing some things or talking back or whatever it was. I think we had two close of a relationship, but he was unbelievable to me, Albert and looking back on that kind of stuff, you know, just the ability to empower your assistance. That was one of the things that I'll forever take with them, and it's something that you just continue to try to be mindful of because when people feel like they're believed in, whether it's players or coaches, that is that is so powerful and and Jay always made you feel that way. The last thing I want to get to Redskins wise, like managing the quarterback situation that last couple of years, because that was tricky and ownership was involved, and like I wonder if there's a big lesson you took when you went to l A from having to manage I have a highly drafted quarterback here, and Robert Griffin who has resonated with the fan base, who's a popular player. On this other side, I've got Kirk Cousins who's paid his dues and waited his turn like and I can remember the summer fifteen, how big a deal that was when you guys turned to Kirk, Like, what do What was the biggest lesson you would take from just having to manage that situation being a huge part of managing um the switch from Robert to Kirk. Yeah, well, I'll tell you what's funny is you look back on the four teen season here, before our first year together, Jay's first year as a head coach. We had three different guys start and win games when you only win four games. So so Robert ended up hurting his ankle against the Jaguars, Kurt comes In plays really well. That was in the second week of the season. Colte McCoy ended up leading us to a Monday night football win against Dallas when they were rolling. So there was a there was a good example of all three of those guys had some good tape, and what I thought was great about going into that next year was really a let's open up the competition. I thought, Jay Scott, McClellan, Bruce dealing with ownership, we got to a point where we're saying, hey, we think it's really important that we try to create a competition, in in essence, a three way competition, and let's be open minded to who wins it and who we feel like gives us the best chance to score wins, to win football games, and to lead our offense. And and I thought throughout the preseason there was a lot made of it from from the outside, but but internally, I think we felt good about that process. And and Kirk really where he cemented himself as the starter was in the preseason against Baltimore. He played really well in Baltimore and was you know, they've always been so good on defense, and they play their guys in the preseason, so you're getting a real evaluation. They're throwing a bunch of stuff actually defensively, Kirk did an excellent job of handling that, and that, in essence is what led to us feeling like, Okay, this is the guy that we think is going to give us the best chance, and he was named starter then from that point forth, So the lesson is just be open minded about, like you know, different positions and always give everybody a chance to compete. I think so, and I think in a lot of instances to Albert, there's a pressure for different reasons on certain guys to play, whether it's the contract, whether it's where they're drafted at, and it's it's the cliche, but hey, how do you really try to say, gonna try to identify guys and you certainly have a vision in mind, but that doesn't mean anything. Is let's have an open competition and every single thing that we do if that's where we feel like it's necessary. And at that quarterback spot, we felt like it was really important to find the continuity three guys that we all felt could play and and Kirk ended up winning the job. Let's go last step then, and that's becoming a head coach. Did what was when did you first, Like, I don't know how to I'm not even sure how to ask this. When did you first get the idea that like it was realistic that you might become a head coach in because I think timeline wise, anybody would look at it and say, I'm still pretty young, I've got time. Do you remember what it was or if there was some sort of something that happened in fifteen or sixteen where you know it was kind of like okay, like I'm getting pretty close now, Yeah, I would say this. Um, you know you look at the all right, the next name stuff like that, and that that last season you start popping up where you know, Albert Brier's got his top ten next coach candidates and you might have thrown me on there as the tenth guy on that list. No, but you start seeing, hey, you're on these these possible lists, get interviews, and Bob Lamont, my agent, was telling me that, you know, some teams that Colts had expressed some interest, but you know, you're not worried about that, and you know, I'm thirty years old at the time. I'm thinking, a let's just try to do a great job. And that was where we're really in the midst of trying to get into the playoffs. And I'll be honest with you, Albert, I really thought we were playing the giants and it was basically, you win, you get in the Ted already cemented themselves as the five seeds, so we were trying to be the sixth seed just to get in as the second wild card, and they played their guys for a little bit. But we go into that and it's the last game we're playing the Giants, and we lose the game, and I and I really, you know, there was a lot of decisions in that game that I didn't like. We didn't have nearly the production for we were like the second offense in the league that year, and we didn't produce. And then that was in a moment where it's like, hey, this is an opportunity to demonstrate and I thought, for sure, just from a perspective and just uh, you know the way that it looks outside that when we didn't do well there, I knew I was gonna have a chance to interview with some teams, but I was like, no way you can justify hiring a third year old head coach when you got a playing game and offensively he's responsible for it. And they didn't play very well. So in my mind, I'm devastated that we don't get in the playoffs. You know, Like I wanted more than anything for us to get in get an opportunity to compete, and then you're saying, all right, well, what's the next thing after that? No way you can justify hiring a thirty year old head coach when you just didn't do a very good job as the O c in a game that you had to have to get in. Well, so that was kind of where my mindset. But you start seeing those things in the latter parts of the year of of who were the next guys that that might have a chance to interview and where where's the circuit and the cycle gonna go? And and then I got a call that right after that game from Bob Lamont saying, the Rams want to interview you. Can they fly out tomorrow. I'm like no, I'm like, no, can we give Can we give ourselves a couple of days? I'm like, come on, this is the last thing I'm thinking about right now. So they flew me out on that Wednesday, interviewed, stayed for a couple of days, and then I actually went interviewed with the forty niners after that and that went really well as well. Uh, they actually were bringing guys up to New York where where they were doing it at the Four Seasons in New York because most of their candidates. They were interviewed on the East Coast, and it was really convenient for me and um that one went well. The Rams flew me back the next day, and uh ended up getting the job a couple of days later. But it was a pretty surreal process. Did you like, was it hard to say no under the niners just because your family history? I don't know, And I never said no. It wasn't anything like that. It was it was really cool because I went into the RAMS and and my thing was too, was like, hey, I'm not They're like, oh, are you really in a rush to be a head coach? I'm like, man, I've got a great job. I'm I'm thirty years old, living in Washington, d C. Loving it. We've got a great offense. I love the people that I'm working with. I think we're on an upward trajectory and so let's go shoot your shot, compete to the best of your ability. But I felt like I'm playing with house money. So you go into you go an interview with the Rams, you know, when you can get a sense that it's going really well, and Uh, it's funny. I was my parents were here last week and my dad was talking to my mom, and you know, my mom's always just worried about her son, and she's like, do you think you can really get one of these jobs? And my dad's like, you know, he's he's it's good to get an opportunity to interviews, like, but I don't know right now. And I called him that night after the first deal and I said, hey, Dad, I'm telling you I'm getting this job. Man, He's looked at my mom. He said, this crazy s ob is gonna maybe get this thing. So the so the RAMS opportunity where I was scheduled to stay out there for a day Albert, they extended it. I got a chance to spend a little bit time with Golf. He had a really good sense that, man, this is this is They're giving you all the buying signals based on how it was going in terms of the rapport with Less, with Kevin, with Past Stores. Those were the three guys that were part of the interview before I came out the second time, and so it went really well. I had a good feeling that, man, I think that I'm probably one of the lead candidates. And you know, because you don't know how realistic are they just getting you. Are they really doing a broad scope and getting a chance to just get to know you and maybe a couple of years or down the line, And so you're feeling like, man, you're a realistic contender for it, you go to San Francisco or you really go interview with San fran And that went really well. It was a great opportunity to spent a lot of time with with Jed york And and Parrague and those guys, and and Brian Hampton was a part of it as well. And I thought it was a really smooth interview, uh, really good comfortable setting. But they were still gonna talk to Kyle and they had had some dialogue with Josh. Then well, then I left, and then the next day the Rams brought me back. And before it got even to that point, I think I think it's worked out pretty well for both teams. You know, Kyle has done such a great job frand and and I've loved my time here in l A. Yeah, I mean, but but was it like so was this surreal interviewing for the head coach job in San Francisco because of that, like because of that family history it was and and you know what, I got the sense too, there was so much respect for my grandfather that okay, hey, we we got to bring in John mcveigh's grandson, whether I was realistic or not, And then you could feel that we had a really good connection as the interview unfolded. But I think more than anything, I probably got a chance to compete for that job because of the respect and that my grandfather had established with that organization. He and Jed York are still close. They still have a great relationship. I mean, it's pretty wild when you go up to your division opponent every year and I look in the right corner of the stadium and I see my grandpa's name up there. I still time when he puts on niners hats and stuff. And we got a family loyalty over your organizational loyalty with anymore. Does he has he ever like like, I don't know, I guess we you you you have members, you have like moments like this with family members, Like has he ever like said, do you like, holy crap, Like I'm really proud of what you accomplished, like like like because he is he actually verbalized that to you. Yeah, he's he's one of the most humble guys that that you'll you'll ever meet Albert, and he is he's always been so supportive, he's so steady, Like he's one of the most steady presence I've ever been around. Uh, you know, I'm so thankful. I love him so much. But he says to me, now, he says, now, I'm your grandpa, and it's not that you're my grandson anyway. Uh, he's made me I mean everything. If you really look what we talked about, what's the assistant theme. It's my grandfather's influence on the people that are willing to say, all right, let's give John mcveigh's grandson an opportunity because he was such a class act and represented all the things that epitomized, you know, a first class organization. Did the Rams ever tell you when you had the job? Like you know, like you get you get offered the job, But there's also like that moment and a lot of like a lot of times, like there's a moment in an interview where you know, maybe your boss will come back and tell you afterwards like that was where you actually won the job. Did they Did they give you that feedback afterwards? So what happened? So It's interesting because I was a part of the you know, when I interviewed, and then you come back out for the second interview, and this is this is I always joke with Mr Cronk about this. So they bring me about bringing me out for the second interview, and basically in my mind, it's like, all right, unless you totally just blow it, you're coming out to accept the job. Where you're going to dinner. We were going to Spago. It was myself them off Mr Cronky and Marshall Falk and what what I thought was pretty cool that they did, because you know, Mr Cronky's got to sign off. I mean, you're you're saying, all right, we're gonna hire a thirty year old head coach to to you know, run the team and do all the things that are necessary from that position. This is a big time decision and this is something you don't take lightly. And I thought it was awesome that Stan had the vision to say, I want to get a feel for him, but let's bring another player in who has such a great perspective. Hall of Famer and Marshall Falk that you're saying, hey, what would this decision from a player's perspective makes sense because he's got so much credibility in Cloud that he's established over the course and the trajectory of his career and all the things he's been exposed to. And so in my mind, I go to dinner and I'm thinking it's gonna be one of those dinners going really well. At the end of the dinner, stand up, you want to be the head coach of the ramch Hill. Yeah, Mr Crokey. And we were staying at the Montage right across the street from so Fago. So we walk across the street and now no one stand the way that I do. And He's very patient and diligent, and this is one of his strengths and one of my weaknesses. I'm so impulsive. Um. He's like, so when do you head back? And I'm like, well, hey, don't you tell me when I head back? So I'm thinking, and this dinner went really well. I walked back into the Montage and I'm like, what the hell you know this is? I thought things went really well? Did I not get Am I not getting this job? Now? Uh? He made me wait for another what seemed like two weeks, another twenty four hours, and then at breakfast. He said, so I I you know, I think this would be a good fit. But they were having me meet with Reggie Scott different people. I said, now, if I don't get this job, this is cruel. You know, I remember that because I felt that like it almost seemed like they like had taken you hostage. Yes, it was like it was like he's getting the job, but like, wait a minute, they're not announcing it, Like what the hell is going on? There was a delay, but you know, the credit to you know, and I joke with staying how much he tortured me making me wait, But it was you know, hey, let's really think through it. Let's make sure we can digest this and make sure it feels like the right decision. And of course I'm I've talked to Less and I'm like, uh, Less, He's like, well, if it makes you feel any better, you know, my process elongated over two weeks. He said, that doesn't make me feel any better or less. You know, that's not not uh he's trying to make me feel better. It just made it worse there, But it was it was, I mean, it was pretty surreal, but it felt like those twenty four hours felt like about two weeks and not knowing, and you know, my fiance at the time, she's all the way out in Ukraine as this is all unfolding, visiting her family. So now you're in the process of Okay, are we living in l A? Am I gonna come back and we're going to move to l A or living in d C. It was. It was pretty wild hold all unfolded. Yeah, and you'd like like if I remember, right, I sort of remember you telling me you'd never been to l A before that, right, No, I hadn't. It was a time, so I think I think, I think I'm a big fan of l A now. Yeah, so all right, Like the last couple of things, being a thirty year old head coach, was there self doubt because I would think, just like like, whenever you're doing something that no one literally no one has really ever done before, Um, was there a level of self doubt? What helped you get past that? Yeah? I don't think there was. What you know, what I think helped me the most is being surrounded by a great coaching staff, like being able to get hired that early in the process where you have great coaches that are available like Wade Phillips, Aaron Cromer, Dan Quinn being great enough to allow Matt la Flour to come on as the O C. You get Greg Olsen, you get some younger coaches that are coaching on defense, Joe Barry, a guy that's our assistant head coach and who I've had a great rapport with, so uh, Shane Waldron being able to come along. I think there were so many great coaches on the staff that you say, hey, I'm not gonna pretend to have answers to things I don't know. I think there's a lot of I think human nature tells you, all right, you're the head coach. You have to have all the answers to everything. It's one of the things that helped me as much as anything. Albert was to keep the main thing the main thing, and don't be afraid to say I don't know, and defer to other guys that have more experience than you, you know. And that's where Wade or Cromer or Greg Olds and those guys were so instrumental, you know. And Zach Taylor was on that staff as well. So I think it was the confidence and being surrounded by some really good guys and then when you look at the roster, we had some good players and you're like, hey man, look at this thing going, and we're excited about the opportunity to compete. But um, it was really helpful where you kind of had a singular focus and I think naturally and and this is something that especially during this time we're ward still than ever ed. You accumulate experiences and you know a little bit more, make sure you don't get thinned out by understanding those things, and then you're splitting hairs on things that don't really matter and aren't as important to achieve the level of success and consistency that we're trying to accomplish weekend and week out. And I think sometimes that ignorance is bliss. My first year was real. But also you know, making sure that you don't just you focus on what are the things that dictating to determine a job well done and then shoot, if you don't have the answer, have somebody help you figure it out. Well, this isn't the main thing then, and it's probably like kind of goes in that other category. But the age thing ever piss you off? Was there ever anything anybody said like where because you have you learned a lot, dude, Like you heard it over and over and over and over again. Was there ever a point where it was just like God enough, like you know, like I just you know, like where it just felt like you couldn't get past like people talking about it? Yeah, I think, Um, I think it was something you just kind of get used to, you know, you get to hear the jokes or whatever. I've never heard that one before, but I really did. It never bothered me because the only thing that ever mattered was the relationships and the report you're able to establish with your coaches and players. And I think when you get asked about it a lot. The thing that's great about the NFL, Albert is these are grown men and it's not about delegating or dictating. It's about how can we collaborate to really all achieve success with one another. And that's building and developing relationships. You know. I think there's a big difference in uh being demanding and then you know where you're dictating or being disrespectful to guys. And I don't believe that that's the right way. No matter what your age is. It's hey, how do you help people reach their highest potential? In a positive, authentic way. But hey, we're not gonna apologize for having high standards for the way that we operate, and I'm gonna hold myself to the same standards that I'm asking our coaches and our players too. And if you don't do that, that, to me is where the problems really arise. But I've never felt like it was an issue in a lot of instances. I think it terms of the relatability or the things that are are are of interest to me. It's actually helped me connect. But I've seen great coaches of of different ages do an outstanding job of connecting. And usually the consistent thing is these are good men of high character that then have high commanding capacity for football, and usually that's what leads to successful relationships. Alright, So like three years later, were you better coach than you were? Like, we won't go through everything in l A, but like, where are you Like you've been to a Super Bowl, you know, you three winning seasons, two times in the playoffs. Where are you a better Where are you better coach now than you were three years? Yeah? I think experiences to now be able to reflect back on continuing to not lose sight into some of the good stuff, and then making sure that when you've lost or when you make bad decisions, let's learn from those opportunities. You know, we say it all the time. Repetition is the mother of learning if you're able to take it for the right things. And I think these experiences, these reps that I've accumulated over the last three years, the people that I've been around, have enabled me to grow. And there's no doubt that I feel better, uh than ever. And I think this time and you and I have talked about this in separate conversations, Albert, but if he said, all right, well, what's the positive of all this craziness going on? You're more still than you've ever been. And I think that gives you an opportunity to really self reflect. And I think in order for you to be able to improve, there's got to be a self awareness of self control that goes hand in hand. And I'm hopeful that as we apply those things moving forward, it makes you a better leader, a better man, and you know, ultimately a better coach. For all these guys, how much is the last year not you? Like? I know it does right, Like I know how positive person you are, but I know, I know how you felt about the way last year ended and everything else, like and then you know, you get thrown into this like just bizarre, like just a different year. Like I guess it's it's way to put it right, like in so many ways, just a different year. How much does last year still sit with you? Like, like how much do you want to let it sit with you? And um, you know, how has it affected the way that you guys are doing your business now? Yeah? I think it's motivated, you know, I love it. I think it. I think it gives you a good positive motivation where we're never gonna run away from the fact that we didn't live up to the expectations. I didn't do a good enough job. But shoot, as a competitor, that's what drives you. I love it. I I can't wait for the opportunity to compete again, to connect back with our players, to get out on that football field, to apply the things that you feel like you've learned to get around some of these new coaches who I'm telling you and I've told you this, Albert, these are some we got some studs that we added on our coaching staff this offseason that I think we'll will really be very helpful and our players playing at a higher level. The command that you see from a Brandon Staleya, Kevin O'Connell, Thomas Brown as a rising star in this league, who's gonna be our running back? Coach John Bonamago has got great command. So we got some guys that I'm really excited, and then we got a whole lot of good coaches that have been here, and uh, you know, it doesn't know I actually had motivation in a good way where it's like, hey, if you're not a competitor, Uh, if you are a competitor, how does that not driving nuts? And so it sounds like it's like killing you that you can't get that you haven't been out there yet, like that you haven't been able to have the guys out in the grass here. It does because you realize how much you thrive on the inner personal connections when you're present with guys. I mean, I'm sure, how exhausted are you from four hours of zoom calls you're yelling into a computer spire? You know, there's nothing like being in person the energy that you have getting out on the field. You know, like when we talked about this earlier. He said, all right, well, would you want to get into scouting or coaching? I would never want to do that because what I love so much about coaching are the interactions with the players. Now. I love football, don't get me wrong, But he said, what's the best part about it. It's the relationships. It's the interactions with the players with the coaches that we're really absent from right now. And that's where I just can't wait until we can report and hopefully get back to some sense of normalcy. And if we're able to get this thing off, man, it'll be great and nobody will be happier than me to be able to do it. Alright. Last thing, then, where Sean McVeigh in ten or fifteen years. Oh that's a good question. Uh, hopefully still with the Rams, unless I've got myself so worked up that I had that that I wasn't feeling good enough to still coach. Uh do you worry about that? Although because I've heard like people around you say that the only thing we worry about was Sean is that he could burn himself out or it is that on your radar? Yeah? Absolutely, it is because you know who I've gotten to have a great relationship with Albert that has been awesome. Mentor to me is Dick for meal and and he's gone through and he can really share some insights where I think we're very similarly wired. You know, you even look at coach Wallace talks about how he wished he had coached longer, but the burnout and and I think the biggest thing is is making sure that you take care of yourself, you get your rest. Understanding that working hard and working smart go hand in hand. You know, it's not a cop out to say sometimes you know, the working smart and efficient doesn't mean you have to work all these hours because you're able to more efficiently knock out that same amount of work by then getting your rest. You're able to be more patient, you have a better demeanor. So those are things that absolutely say I need to do a better job of managing that. And I think this offseason has given me a good framework for what I think can be applied now. Hopefully when we talk six weeks into the season, I'm saying, you know what, I'm staying consistent with that, and that's something that I do need to be aware of because if you're not careful, I just know the way that I'm going at it. You're like, realistically, this isn't the right way to do it, but you're such a kind of your mind is always you're such a grinder, And I think it's kind of being able to step back being still, Like I keep saying, it's gonna be a key thing, and I am confident that will be able to achieve a better balance, will will lead to more sustainability moving forward. Well, yeah, it's always like if something is like left undone, it's just kind of gnaws at you and you can't like, you know what I mean, Like you just like if there's something that you feel like you've got left to do, it's hard to be still and just leave that there for the time being and not do it, no doubt, And and and and the other thing too is what I've really seen from a lot of my close friends. And you know, once you get to that point where you're I'm gonna get married next year, obviously want to be able to have kids, that perspective of all right, now you've got a real reason to live. When you got a family, you got something else. I think that balance and that understanding and appreciation for those things where it's not just all football. Will will help kind of towards a goal of just being able to sustain and be healthier overall. Alright, well, Sean, I feel like I could have gone. I could go for five or six hours talking about this ship with you. Yeah. That Sean McVeigh, the head coach of the Rams, really appreciate you coming out, Sean. Yeah, I always enjoy appreciate it. Albert, Yeah,