Jaguars Special Report | Weak-Side Podcast

Published Sep 1, 2020, 8:00 AM

On this episode of the Weak-Side Podcast, Conor convinces Jenny to spend an entire show discussing the Jaguars, prompted by the team's completing its deconstruction by trading Yannick Ngakoue and cutting Leonard Fournette. Join us!

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Of all of the things that I managed to convince Jenny Brentis to do this week on the week Side Podcast alongside me, Connor Or is the thing that she probably hates the most, which is talking about the Jaguars for twenty five straight minutes. That's right, it is the special Jaguars addition, Yeah, of the week Side Podcast. Um, I am noted Jaguars apologist Connor Or alongside Jenny Brentis has always uh. We're recording this on Monday, after the Jaguars released former number four overall pick Leonard four Nett and I said, Jenny, scrap the program. We are devoting this entire half hour to uh the trendy perpetually to the trendiest team in the NFL from two thousand thirteen to two thousand seventeen, the team that all of the insiders told us was going to be the Super Bowl champions. They kind of got close. It was sort of one of those uh classic one hit wonder Hollywood stories. Jenny, how excited are you to talk a little Jags football here? Well, you know, today is as good a day as any. Connor right makes sense. Um, it's a little bit reminiscent of I went back and looked up in at the mm QB. We had a JAG week. There was a logo and all that we will share on the MMQB Instagram. Um, it's actually a great logo. I can't say the same for the lineup of stories. Um, I wrote a lineup of story. Or I wrote a story for that week about Tim Tebow not abandoning his dream of becoming an NFL quarterback, but yet the sport of rugby was courting him. If you're wondering how this fits into JAG week, well there was evidently at that time a plane flying over the stadium during a game with a Tebow. Why not dann or into At the time, of course, the Jaguars were oh and five. This was October, and then of course they made their dramatic turnaround. But Connor, the lineup of stories this week really, um, really a low light for the m MQB. I have to say there was spreading the wealth. Denver is an unprecedented twenty eight point favorite against Jacksonville, but smart money and NFL gambling history is on the underdog Jaguars. No, really, then there was It could be worse. When it comes to the low lights of the NFL's past history. It doesn't get much lower than the nineteen seventies six bucks on the wrong side of the last Mega spread. They can teach these Jags about what it's really like to be outmatched. Then we had the youth Revolution, the Jags Dream Draft. A lot of help is needed in Jacksonville, but with ten picks in the next draft, the Jags can take a step forward if they follow this advice. Lastly, what ails them and maybe a cure. Analyzing the Jaguars in all phases, you see some slivers of hope, though maybe not for this week. So yes, Connor, this was really a woman in time. And I bring it up because I think you're about to make the point that what the Jaguars accomplished being minutes away from a Super Bowl was a peak in itself worth celebrating. And so I am highlighting this Nader to point out how far the Jaguars came to reach that peak. But yet now they are in another Nadier. So I wrote today on si dot com that I think, um, if if you were to go back to two thousand thirteen, and I say that this started in two thousand thirteen, because that's really when the Jaguars began to kick start the rebuild and Earnest shad Con took over in UM stuck with Mike Malarkey for a year and then brought in Dave Caldwell, Gus Bradley, UM and UH and all that and and to try to kind of shift things there. Solve was sort of the end of the sort of lost in the Woods Jaguars era, uh, exclamated by the Justin Blackman draft pick, which I think he was like sixth overall, um seventh overall, that he never really materialized there and then came the rebuild. And that's you know, and what I asked Jaguars fans in my column today is if in we came to you and said, there's gonna be six crappy years in here, but in one season, you're going to have an identity, You're going to have two star players um that other people from other other fan bases would recognize, and you're gonna come within seconds of beating the Patriots to go to the Super Bowl. Would you take it? And that's what I'm that's all am asking is to really sit back and consider that given that you know there's there's Lions fans, there's Bills fans, there's fans of teams that have never made it this far. You are the Jaguars. Would you have taken that? And I'm wondering, you know, I'm curious what my response is going to be because I think maybe you would have, right. I mean, before the rebuild started, you had your most popular players, were a punter in a mascot um, you know. So, I don't know. I think that there were some good things that came out of this. Again, I'm a noted Jaguars apologists. I realized that, but I feel like it's not all like, let's just stomp on this team and laugh at them. Today, I think I think there were some good things that happened in these six years. Well, relevancy is always better than the alternative. Well, in most cases. This is something I've been thinking a lot about lately. Maybe it isn't all that important, but um, in general, in the NFL, if you're in the mix, it is better to be the at than not to be in the mix at all. But I was thinking about your point and hearkening back as usual to the Jets circa two thousand nine, or excuse me, two thousand nine ten, UM, would you say that Jets fans are satisfied by that? No, it was an exciting era. You know, Rex and came in with a lot of energy. They rebuilt the team. They had this fantastic defense, They went to back to back a f C championship games. They had that thrilling win against Bill Belichick and Tom Brady and Foxborough in the divisional round. But ultimately what came of it was just kind of a blip on the radar. It wasn't some lasting you know, I don't know. It wasn't a championship. It wasn't something that is going to go down in the history books. Connor. It was kind of a fleeting, fun moment in time. And it's better that than the alternative. It's better that than the drudgery of losing season after losing season. But I don't know, is there joy in coming close? I think you and I started our training camp tour there the year after they lost the Patriots, and I think at the time we were told that it was like the most well attended UM training camp, uh in recent memory, or at least maybe since they started as a franchise. If you remember correctly. That was during the time of the viral videos where there was the woman saying that the uh what was this the uh that Jaguars could break the rules or steal the show? Steal the show. Yeah, So there was like there's a lot of energy there and I don't know, like I I just think like a picture being a Lions fan and not being able to feel any of that since Barry Sanders was around. UM, and if you're the Jaguars, it's like, you know, if you have an understanding of who you are as a franchise, you're sort of an NFL outpost Um. You're not really expected to compete on a regular basis. That's just sort of like the the vibe the team is perpetually. You know, it seems like entertaining offers to move to a foreign country. So you know, that's that's who you are. And I felt like, you know, I'm not making excuses for anybody, but it's like, you know, that was pretty neat that you almost made the Super Bowl there. That was like a oh, what was that Premier League team that came out of nowhere and and won the Premier League a couple of years ago? UM, really testing my lack of soccer knowledge here. Connor, Yeah, I think we discussed that previous classics soccer team, you know, you know, the one Jenny Umttenham. Was it the Spurs? I don't. I don't think it was the Spurs. M Lesure, Oh okay, was that it Leicester? I don't know? Is that how your stand? Really? Um, we're going to get banged for this because we are are following is large. We definitely are going to Yes, we do have a strong international following, but listen, it's an American football show, not international football, so that is not our area of expertise. It's okay that we have some blind spots there. Connor, Yeah. And then Wikipedia puts the list backward. It's first, so it's not even like I can like bang up real quickly Leicester City. Oh right, see. I do remember watching this in the office and Mark Mravik, the emeritus executive editor of the mm QB, who was also largely responsible for Jaguars Week, to really bring things circle, I remember him watching this in the office and discussing how improbable this was. Yes, uh, the the old Foxes of Leicester City. How could we forget? Um? So I don't know. I mean maybe it's sort of like one of those things where all of a sudden you're relevant and you get a spotlight on your city and your town. And is that worthwhile? I mean, certainly it must have been for Shad Con because he kind of kept the core nucleus of that team around for a while even after it was clear that you know, that era is over, you know, and I think the releasing of for NET today. Yes, you still have Miles jack Um, you still have Josh Allen, you still have some talented players on that roster, but it's pretty much over. I mean, you know that Jaguars team as a contending entity that we know it is long gone. Yeah, I mean, you just have a history of topics that didn't work out. Blake Bortles at number three for NET at number four, you have the Yan Gawkway situation where he took several million dollars less and has no no tag close to go to Minnesota, indicating how badly he wanted out that he would take a far lesser amount to play just to play for a different team. So certainly what's going on in Jacksonville is kind of front and center. And that's why today was a good day for this breakdown. Connor, So, I'm gonna pitch this question to you and um and we'll kind of go back and forth here. But where do you think it all went wrong? Like where do you think this whole thing kind of went off the rails in your mind? Well? I think our colleague Albert Brewer had a good point in that the shelf life of defenses or the billy to keep a defense together when the defense is your core and what you're depending on to win a championship, Um, it doesn't have the staying power that a quarterback coach relationship has. So you know, we saw that in Seattle. I think with the Legion of boom Right they were contenders for a few years and then there was a fragmenting there. Um. It's just difficult to keep so many pieces together when there's players on every level that are kind of coming together to make that work. Um. So I think that's one factor. Since the Jaguars defense was the center of those efforts and Blake Bortles was you know, secondary, and then when you needed a little bit more from Blake Bortles, obviously it didn't work out. Um. I will say that the noise that our producer Shallby played at the beginning of the show for Jags weeks sound a little bit like the Nitney Lion roar, And that made me think of paulp as Lesnie, who I think was a veteran leader on that team, and I think that, yes, come on, and that is straight out of Happy Valley, Like then it is. I love it. I love it. That reminds me of like Saturday's growing up when there's a football game on and um so yeah, I mean, I think the loss of his Lesni, like sometimes you see locker room leaders leave and then the team kind of disintegrates, and I think he's representative of that, similar to what we saw with the Jets when that kind of some of those veteran leaders left a locker room, like Damian Woody and La Danian Tomlinson. And then the chemistry that is such a delicate mix sometimes anyway in NFL locker rooms just kind of didn't have the right mix of ingredients anymore. So I think those are two factors that I would say Connor, I would say too that there are a lot of parallels between that Jaguars team and the Jets teams that we covered most notably. You know, I think there's a Boordles in Sanchez sort of thing that goes hand in hand there. And there's the idea that Sanchez made it to a second contract, a pretty fairly lucrative second contract, and Blake Bortles did to Bake Blake Bortles got a second deal um after uh that a f C championship run um at a time when everybody was like, I don't know, you know, maybe it's you know, maybe you've got to count your losses here and really go but instead it was let's let's push it even further. Let's go all in. Let's go all in um and uh, you know, so it's kind of an interesting scenario there, but I don't know. I to me, I think it's like it's a weird thing where Tom Coughlin came in as the executive vice president during their best year and then that's like and then that's when everything started to fall apart. And you know, you've heard all the stuff about you know, uh, you know, you and I both covered the giants, the maniacal finding, the you know, players getting fined for everything, and I think that that was just like, uh, it was Tom Coughlin came at the right time for the Giants and he had success and so he was able to maintain that that program and those efforts. But to instill that as a new culture in today's NFL, I think is next to impossible. And had that team not had the successes they had, probably would have burned out even sooner than it did. Yeah. I think it's also different when it's like an e VP of football operations role rather than a head coach UM. And it's also awkward when they're an e VP of football Ops comes in and there's a GM in place. I feel like that dynamic makes it difficult as well. There's kind of a different groups or different ideas in the front office UM, and that is never a great mix. I mean, it's sort of similar like the Dolphins. Mike Tannemm was the e v P of Football Operations when he came in there, UM, and then you had Chris Greers the GM under him, and then ultimately that you know, they decided to just have the GM instead of two people who are sort of in that decision making role. Yeah, it was. It was kind of an interesting time And was there ever a point throughout your tenure. I mean obviously being on the on the ground floor of JAG's Week. Um, there's a lot to be said for that. Did you ever have Jaguars Fever? And if so, could you ribe the feeling? I mean, I think Jack's Week was a fun initiative to be a part of. I think that I love it, Shelby on the spot, I love it. Um. I think that the numbers that week sagged, but that's okay. You know, the Jaguars are a niche taste and you have to really want to be a part of it, and so we don't do things for the numbers here at the MMQB connor. You know, we we thought there was a different goal of Jaguars Weekend. We really uh tried to lean into that goal. But I would say if you'd ask me that week if they would be in the a f C Championship game in a few short years and be close to be eating Tom Brady and Bill Belichick and Fox Burro, I would have said no. So in that respect, that is an achievement. I remember getting Jaguar's Fever in London in two thousand fifteen, covering the game out there They're playing the Bills. They came from behind and they beat the Bills there, and you know, it was one of those things where you know, you're focusing on the NFL from a national, national perspective, and you really got to spend one week with a team again. You got to learn, you know, a little bit about how they came together. I met a bunch of great Jaguars fans out there, um as they like to call themselves, and UH just kind of saw the whole thing organically, and at that point I was like, you know, I'm I'm all in on this. I think this is gonna work. And I think it was fascinating because the team sort of pivoted so quickly, Like you draft Blake Portals. Uh, he has that weird thirty five touchdown season and then you know, everything seems to be kind of going in the right direction, but then he regresses significantly. He's thrown, is wounded, duck passes again, and so you pivot. And it was such like a weird, interesting point in franchise history where you have the opportunity to draft Deshaun Watson or Patrick Mahomes and instead you go with Leonard four Nett and you're you're almost like, you know what, No, we're our defense is too good. We can just run the ball and we can be successful. And you know, you you wonder if they had that decision over to to make over again, would they change their mind? Obviously? You know, of course, knowing what Patrick Mahomes has become and Deshaun Watson has become, it's sort of obvious. But back then it's like, you know, does this make sense like in in what we knew about Watson and Mahomes back then, or should they have just pulled the trigger and gotten rid of bortles at the time? Right? And the obvious answer is yes, But you could also say that it's a quarterback success is largely tied to who the head coaches and being in the right system and environment to develop. And I think Patrick Mahomes and Watson would have had success in any environment, but it might not be the same level of success that they're both having now. Yeah, I think that that's like important to keep in mind. Again as a noted UH Jaguars apologist. Uh, But here's the interesting question is where do you go from here? Um, they're certainly in pole position for Trevor Lawrence. If Trevor Lawrence comes out, It's gonna be fascinating to see if Trevor Lawrence wants to go there, if there is some sort of behind the scenes horseplay, uh to get Trevor Lawrence the coach that he wants, you know, is that the kind of market he wants to play in. Um, he's that kind of quarterback who can have those options and he has that kind of power. Um. You know, do you, if you're Jacksonville, do you kind of stay on course here? I mean, I'm I'm predicting all two fifties six games for the mm QB this week. I have the Jaguars going one in fifteen this year, which I think is maybe generous given kind of what the roster looks like right now. I mean, do you stay the course here and assume that you can entice Trevor Lawrence to go there and you kind of say this is what we gotta do? Or I mean, I don't know what what is the future here in Jacksonville? Yeah? I was actually about to ask you and put you on the spot as to what you picked for their record this year. But I don't think there's much debate that they are the favorite for the top quarterback and then the questions come in similar to this year, would Joe Burrow force his way out of Cincinnati? Obviously he didn't. Um, but it's a perennial question. It's a fair one to ask in an age when players are empowered, right, I mean I think that's another factor to consider. Would someone be more likely to consider that route now? And yeah, is your what's your pressure point? Right? Like? Do you use your sway to what end? And if you're the Jaguars and you have a chance of getting Trevor Lawrence or whoever you deemed the top quarterback to be, do you want Doug Marone to be the person developing him? And you know he's been the head coach there since he was the interim coach um before that in sen but um, you know, do you stay the course? Do you think he's had enough time to see where he can take this team? And you just kind of want to fresh start with a new quarterback and a new head coach. I think that's the move. Um. Yeah. Doug Marone famously gave a speech at halftime of a Syracuse basketball game that I was attending. I think I don't think I was covering that day for the paper for the Daily Orange. UM and his big move what he had just been installed as the new head coach, UM and he and he took off his suit jacket and he spiked it on the floor of the court and he was like getting everybody fired up, you know, UM. And then he said, this is my dream job, this is the only job I've ever wanted, and I will never leave. And everybody went nuts. And three years later he was the head coach of the Buffalo and there was the weird exit in Buffalou never been fully explained. Yeah. So you know, I I think it's time, uh for them to move forward. And and here's the thing, Like, I think the infrastructure there is so cool. I mean, you know, the Jaguars were among the Jaguars were among the first NFL teams to really do a full throated embrace of analytics. UM. This is a team that has found good players. And there's an evidence based UM way to look at the way that they found some good players either undrafted, free agency, UM, or late in the draft. UM. Because of their makeup there, they've invested heavily in it. And I think that that's a good ownership group to play for, like Shad con and and Tony are immensely patient. I mean in order to give that last regime that they did basically seven years um to prove themselves. Like I think all that sets up as like this is a pretty good deal. Like, yeah, it sucks to have to go to London three or four times a year, and maybe that's where we end up permanently, which is always a concern I guess for for somebody. But in terms of like the set up there, You're gonna have a ton of draft picks, you're gonna have a ton of cap space, and you're you're maybe gonna have Trevor Lawrence. I mean that's a good deal, I think for a perspective head coach. Yeah, And I think what you just said about them being able to find good players is important to the whole conversation of where do they go from here because they have found good players, but they have either not utilized them the right way or not been able to retain those players. And I think that speaks to the coaching staff. So that is a reflection this latest move with four net like how did it not work out? You know? And you could argue against taking a running back at number four, which I think we would will argue against. But you also have to think about, like, why are they getting good players and it's just not working out with them and this is not a place where they want to stay long term, and so I think that is more evidence for a coaching change. Jenny, remember you and I covering the two thousand seventeen NFL draft for competing outlets. But that didn't mean that we didn't got to spend some time together at the Lovely Park restaurant in Philadelphia. Um, that's the place to see and be seen. And uh, leading up to that week, I mean, you know, it was like, I mean, Myles Garrett is obviously going number one overall, but that was one of the weirdest drafts in recent memory that I remember. I mean, so here's the top ten, and there's a lot of players that I kin't of even forgot about. I mean, Myles Garrett, Mitch Robiskie, and then Solomon Thomas at three, Leonard four Net at four, Corey Davis at five, Jamal Adams at six, Mike Williams at seven, to the Chargers, Christian McCaffrey at eight, John Ross at nine, and then Patrick Mahomes at ten. Super a weird draft to begin with, but it's like, and I don't know if it's necessarily one of those that if you're a Jaguars fan, do you go back and you're like, outside of Patrick Mahomes, what person are you like? Definitely we should have gotten instead of Leonard Ford, and that would have changed things for us. I just don't know. I mean, maybe Christian McCaffrey you could argue was the better. I mean you you would be absolutely right and arguing that he's the better running back out of the two. Um Deshaun Watson. I don't know, I mean, but that that certainly seems like the turning point there where the Jaguars went from sort of ascending franchise to like missing maybe their their greatest opportunity there. Yeah, I mean, I think the mistake there was not saying now is the time to move on from Bordles and potentially not seeing the transcendent talent in that class between Mahomes and Watson, which, to be fair, a lot of teams around the league did not see. Um also, as you just read this off and this has nothing to do with the Jaguars, but brutal you're for drafting or receiver in the top Corey Davis, Mike Williams, and John Ross. That is, those are three tough top ten picks really the first so Corey Davis, Mike Williams, John Ross, Z Jones, Curtis Samuel, Juju Smith Schuster. That so he was the first Pro Bowl wide receiver out of that class at picks sixty two, and he was one, two, three, four or five six receiver taken. And then Cooper Cup was a good pick. But then Taywan Taylor, are Darius Stewart to the Jets, Carlos Henderson, but then two more Pro bowlers Chris Godwin and Kenny Golladay at the bottom of the third round. There such a weird uh, such a weird draft. Yeah, a very weird draft. I think receiver is a difficult position to project, maybe now so more so than ever. So Yeah, I'm gonna ask you. Um, I'm gonna pull up the Jaguars schedule here, um and uh, and I have them going one in fifteen this year. I think I have them hang out a little Minshoe magic over the maybe the Bengals, um, which shows a little bit of zero faith in Joe Burrow, which it's not meant to be intended that way, but I mean, correct me if I'm wrong. So, uh, Colts at Titans, Dolphins at Bengals at Texans, Lions at Chargers, Texans at Packers, Steelers, Browns at Vikings, Titans, Ravens, Bears, Colts. Wow, that's a that's a brutal schedule. That is a tough schedule. Yeah, I would say that the Bengal spot where you have them winning makes a lot of sense because you know they're playing against the rookie quarterback. Um, if you had to guess another win, um, well, I mean, let's you're high on the Browns, but I don't know, there always seems to be some Brown's chaos, so maybe there's maybe there's a potential spot for a win there. Um. You know, Titans are always one of those like weird teams, right, you know you could just see them having like a weird win against the Titans or something along those lines. Um, who knows what kind of state the Bears will be in at week sixteen? Also true, but I think you know, I think you're right. I mean, it's there's not you don't look at that schedule and think like there's a lot of opportunities for wins here for the Jaguars. I agree, um my fantasy Jaguars scenario for the two thousand and twenty season. Uh and I'll ask you to do the same, uh is so. And again, I'm never advocating for anybody to lose their job. I think that's the crappiest thing that you could like when people predict hirings and firings and all that stuff. It's a lousy thing to do, um so. But I'm gonna turn this on its head and make it a comeback story. So if the Jaguars decide midstream to make a coaching change, it is an opportunity of a lifetime for the career regeneration of current Jaguars quarterbacks coach Ben macadoo to make a reappearance on the national stage, lead the Jaguars to eight straight wins, get Trevor Lawrence and uh and get a get a new lease on life down there in Jacksonville for Big Ben Connor. We usually saved the oracle for a Thursday episode, but this is sounding a lot like an oracle to me, more of a twisted um Madden fantasy. You know, Okay, that's more interesting. Definitely intriguing. I mean the other other wild scenario is like, you know, maybe they just rattle off six wins and don't get Trevor Lawrence. I mean, that's what isn't that What we all thought about the Dolphins was that, you know, this team is going to be so bad that blah blah blah, and then they end up winning five games, which I guess was excellent in the case of the Dolphins because you've got who you wanted anyway. Um, but anyway would be a complete disaster in the case of the Jaguars if they were somehow able to win three or four games. Oh my goodness, and then you miss out on the quarterback that everybody's been talking about for the last four years. Yeah. But different situation because first year head coach that somehow was able to come in and kind of convince guys as difficult as the circumstances were, Like he got that team to play hard, to believe in what he was building, even if they couldn't see the results right away. Uh. Different situation obviously for a coach who's been there for several years. Um Connor, we cannot let the show end without shouting out. One of our most loyal listeners, Anthony, who is a Jaguars fan it actually wrote in and told us about a funny story. I don't know if I shared this on an earlier pot. I don't, but he was playing football in college and they had scouts come to the school for junior days so they could do prep for the next year and ask them some questions. He said his favorite team growing up with the Jaguars, and the scouts started laughing because he'd been an Areas out for twelve years and never once had you heard someone says that's amazing. So that's pretty good. That's a great story. Great story. Yeah, so I wanted to make sure the show did not end without giving a shout out speaking of the show and UM, if you guys are still here, thank you. UM. And there's gonna be some changes to the mm qb um podcast feed coming up. The weak Side podcast will remain as it is. UM. You know, we're not sure exactly what days of the week and and all that kind of stuff, But the one thing that you can do, UM to help us get off the ground is when we start, UM kind of breaking off into our own feed. We're gonna we're gonna have separate feeds now because um, you know, kind of give everybody a little bit more of a chance to to pick what they want from the buffet line. But when we do, UM, if you guys would do us a favor and leave a rating, review, comment like it if you like the show, if you don't like the show, just do it anyway because it helps us out. And you know, in the law of the universe, we're all supposed to assist our fellow humans and that would be great um for us. So you know, just let us know what you like, what you don't like about everything, um, and what we can do better. Um, as we kind of get the show rolling on its own feed going forward, and we're excited. We have the best group of fans that we hear from all the time and uh on Twitter, on Instagram, on our email at the weak Side Pod at gmail dot com. So we know you guys are coming with us. Um. You know, we're not really going anywhere, it's just sort of like we're moving next door. But um, yeah, if there's anything that we can do better worse, please let us know and leave a rating interview because it's gonna help us a lot um in our ability to kind of do more big, big cool things to show. Connor, you referenced the buffet line. I really hope that to our listeners we are like the Taco Tuesday buffet that used to be part of our cafeteria in our old office, where even if you aren't in the mood for tacos, are you're like, I can't do tacos again, You're just somehow drawn in every Tuesday. I would love for our show to play that role. Yeah, I would love. I would love for us to be the official tacos morgue board of of your football podcast listening. You know, just yeah, that's all we could ever really ask for when we set out to do this a couple of years ago. Jenny, we do talk about tacos a lot Vigan Tacorea. I mean, taco does seem to be the theme of our show. So yea um. But thank you guys, and once again, thank you for sticking with us through the Connor Or Passion Project Jaguars Special Edition podcast. Thanks again for listening. The MMQB week Side Podcast is me Jenny Rerentis and Connor Or We are produced by Shelby Royston. Size Executive producer of podcast is Scott Brody, Ben Eagles, Director of Editorial Projects and product Mark Mravik is Emeritus Executive director of the mm QB. Keep up with our entire lineup of podcasts by subscribing on Apple Podcasts, and while you're there, please do us a favor and leave a rating and review. It really does help other people find the show, as Connor alluded to, which is also available on Spotify, Radio dot Com, Stitcher, a side dot com, and wherever else you listen to podcasts,

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