GM Roundtable with Brad Veach & Jason Licht

Published Feb 4, 2021, 7:01 PM

Albert Breer talks to Tampa Bay Buccaneers GM Jason Licht & Kansas City Chiefs GM Brett Veach in the lead up to Super Bowl LV about their time together working for the Philadelphia Eagles, what makes Andy Reid a good coach, and what they look for in scouting new players

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Welcome into the Albert Friers Show, Special edition from Tampa, Florida from Super Bowl fifty five. We've got a little bit of a different field of the show today. We are going to conduct a general manager roundtable. That's right, Jason Life from the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Brett Beach from the Kansas City Chiefs. They're gonna come in and give us their insights on being general managers in this spot in this year, UM, in the Super Bowl. We're also going to talk to the two of them, but how in a certain way they came up together and who they came up under. Both these guys came up under Chiefs coach Andy Reid, who has himself a little bit of a general manager tree brewing across the NFL. We'll talk a lot about what Andy gave to them as young scouts coming up. Let's roll, all right, and I'm really looking forward to doing this because this is the sort of thing we actually did one of these with Brett earlier in the year, and UM, just kind of good to get the sorts of guys in UM, guys who have such a huge piece of the whole process of getting teams to this to this point Um, we are now four days out as we're recording this from Super Bowl fifty five, and we have the two general managers on the line from the Super Bowl teams, from the Kansas City Chiefs Brett Veach and from the Tampa Bay Buccaneers Jason Lte. Uh, guys, this is like I know, you guys have both been to this point before. Like obviously, Brett you were here last year. I think you guys both made it it at one point with the Eagles, right and um, and Jason you were there with the Patriots. But I just gotta be really really weird. I see it right now, we can we're on the zoom and you guys are sitting in your office. Is it's just really strange. You know, Yeah, it's a it's a little different. I'm sorry, Brett, I didn't know if you were chiming in there. Um. It is definitely different in that, you know, there's not the crowds of people descending on the city. UM, the radio row, um, all the media is a lot different. We've kind of I'm sure I don't want to speak for Brett, but we've kind of gotten used to the zoom interviews now and things like that. So I think we're just here and I'm sure Kansas City's Brenton's the same way. We're just so focused on the game that you kind of put it out of your head and you realize it's you realize it is a little different. But at the same time, we are able to focus a little bit more than we probably would normally in a normal year. Yeah. Right, you were here last year. I mean, like, how different is this from Like if you could look back to Wednesday last year in Miami, how different is this? Yeah, I mean it's it's certainly different. And um, you know, I know the coaches love it. Uh, you know, I don't want to speak for Jason, but you know, having that experience last year, you know, the cool part about last year's experience was you weren't cooped up in your office listening to uh all the analysts talk about the game that that stuff drive you nuts. Uh. You know, when you're there during a normal Super Bowl week, you have so much stuff going on where you kind of you can get away from, um, you know, all the talk and just do stuff with your family and do stuff, um, you know, with your with your staff. So certainly miss that, but you know on on a take a step back on a on a broader stage, just obviously extremely fortunate that we had a season and we're able to get to where we are, and obviously it's gonna be an unbelievable game on Sunday, So looking forward to that. So uh, in the grand scheme of things, were lucky, but it's certainly different. Okay, So we're gonna get into one of the reasons I want to have these guys and I want to talk to them a little bit about Andy Reid. But before we get there, I want to ask you as this too, because I think this this is sort of interesting, just because like the hay is sort of in the barn for you guys, right, Like a lot of your job is done, the teams are built, you're putting them out there. Um, what's it like being a general manager going into a Super Bowl? Because you're not game playing like a coach is right, Like you're not preparing like a player is. I mean a lot of your peers right now are in draft meetings and free agent meetings and all that stuff. So um, for a general manager, if you guys can kind of tell thee tell the listeners, what is what is this like, you know, the four days, four days out from the Super Bowl, where again like sort of your job's done in the haze in the barn. Well, I don't, Brett will say the same exact thing, are well maybe in terms of this season, in terms of the game and the players that are playing in the game, the haze in the barn. We've done all the work to assemble our teams, um with our staffs, but we're about to be hit with a rush of of job of things that we have to do as soon as the season is over. And and you know, you know that your contemporaries and other clubs are getting ahead start, So there's a lot of stuff that we have to do as soon as as soon as this game is over. It's not like we're gonna be able to go take a two week vacation. Um. You know, we have a lot of contracts that are up on and coaching and personnel and plans we have to do make and I have to catch up on draft meetings with with my staff that they've been having. So there's a little bit of an uneasy feeling that you're not able to do those things. I wouldn't want to change it. Don't get me wrong, I love that we're in this situation. But it'll be interesting to hear what Brett has to say since he's been through it last year and this is going to his second consecutive Super Bowl here. Well, well, um, you know, listen, we're just trying to to you know, stay occupied, and it is hard. Um, you know, pretty much this week I've been watching the Senior Bowl and just trying to catch up. Like Jason said, you know, you're playing catchup and and you're you know, you're certainly excited to be in this position. Um, but you know, as soon as that game ends on Sunday, you know, and I know Jason very well, he'll be in the same mindset. You know, win or lose, will both be probably watching tape on Monday or Tuesday and getting ready for the draft for free agency. So um, you know, just trying to be effective with this extra time, and you know, watching some some Senior Bowl stuff and and looking looking at some of the UFA stuff that you know, we we had meetings in December, but just kind of going over that and trying to put together a plan. We still don't know what the CAP's gonna be could be anywhere from one, so we're trying to take a stab at that. But um, you know, all those things are are beneficial this week because it helps kind of take your mind off the game. But like you mentioned, Albert, um, as far as this season goes, um, you know, we um not much we can do and other than keep our players healthy and avoid positive tests. But um, really just looking forward as much as you can and trying to occupy this this dead time for us. Yeah, and you guys had an interesting week as far as that goes to the close context and everything, huh brat, Like it's just it's got to be like I mean, i'd imagine it's nerve wracking to just like the possibility that something can happen, you know, even with something is yeah, like a barber, you know what I mean, Like even something like it's kind of like on the periphery as that. Yeah, I mean you you wake up every morning and I'm sure Jason is the same way, and I'm just looking for you know, alerts from burke hole or text from burk hole or um you know, whether they be positives or close context. So it's uh, um, the first thing you kind of roll out of bed and just go write to your phone and hope that you don't get a message from Rick because you know, if he's texting you at five six m it's not good. So, uh, you know, it doesn't matter what's on your phone. As long as you don't see a message from Rick, then it's a good day. I'm the same way with Bobby Slater. But but Brett, how how bad is that split second when they text you? But it has nothing to do with about it? You're like, oh man, what ok? Yeah, he'll give you the uh know, the worst is that call me quick? You know? Yeah, you're like dropping everything you're spreading down there. You know it, got the mask on, got the whole has matt suit running down there. And then I just wanted to know if you were cool with this flight arrangement. I'm like, but see, I would think that's even worse that to call me quick, because that means it's really bad because he wants to tell you in person, right, I don't want this over the text. Yeah, they call me the worst messages you can get for sure. Okay, Um, go ahead, Jason, No, I was just in agreement. Okay, Okay, So a lot of people don't know this, but you guys are actually co workers. So like part of the idea here was kind of a talk about Andy Reid and the impact that that he had on both of you guys, and kind of how he's been able to be and he's almost got like a personnel tree now. Like you look at some of the guys that have come out of there, Um, Howie Roseman, Ryan Grigson, the late Tom Hacker were all gms. Um you know in Kansas City now Chris Bowers and a lum of that Chiefs program, obviously John Dorsey out of there too, Um had gone to Cleveland. Um. I want to just start with a simple question. Do you guys remember each other from then? Like did you guys know each other? Because I know you were just starting out right Brett and you were We know each other very well. I learned that. Yeah. No no, no, no no, no, no no no. But did you know him back then, like when you were the coaching intern, when you guys were together in Philly, did you guys know each other then? Oh? Yeah, each other? Well, uh, Brett has what year was your first year? Brett? Oh, she was like oh six or oh seven or something like that, and um, I'm sure I wore Jason out always. I was in Jason's office a ton and there it was great. I was at the time of worked under Heckert, as you know, in the personnel department as the personnel director. And Brett was a coaching assistant for Andy, which which he has a significant tree in that position as well, Sean McDermott. H Brett is the GM. I'm forgetting John Harbor Ron riveris the coaching Actually that actual role. I think Kevin Stefanski was in that role at once operations assistant. Correct. So Andy has always had a good eye for for that position. And I'm not just trying to blow smoke up Brett here, uh asked here, but uh, but so Brett would was always was always very eager to get his hands on work, just to work, and he loved evaluating players. And he spent probably more time with Andy than we did, um watching tape. Now, we spent a lot of time watching tape with Andy, but when we would you know, break and go to our own offices to watch, Andy would go into his office and Brett would go with him and they would watch tape together. So Brett came in he'd have a thousand questions a day. What do you think of this guy? What do you think of this guy? What do you think of this guy? And he was really at that point he was grooming his that Andy was grooming him unintentionally maybe to uh, to become the position that he's at right now. He was always a very good evaluator. We had a lot of arguments too over players, and he'd loved to argue it wasn't something he wasn't somebody where I could say, no, I think you're wrong, I this is I like this guy? Why? Why do you like it? Did you watch utup game? Why? Well? And Brett, you like you didn't even know you're gonna be a scout at that point, Like you still thought you'd probably coach right at that point. Yeah, No, Um, you know the cool thing and I'm probably jumping the gun here because I know we're gonna talk about Andy, but the cool thing about working for coach is um, you know, he's got no ego, so you know it doesn't matter if um uh, if you're head coach, um you know from another team with an idea or opinion, or if you're his corner coordinator, his gym like or if your first level, first year internal assistant like coach has no ego and he doesn't think he has all the answers and he wants to learn and um, he thinks he can get information from everywhere. But so when you have that guy at the top of the organization with that mindset, it trickles down. So people like Jason had that mindset too. So you know, I think back that back to my time in Philly, and you know, I was always in Jason's office and it could have been so easy for Jason to be like, you know, all right, dude, like you're annoying me. Um, Jason always door open from me. And you know he was so you know, influential in my career because um, you know, just learning the game, you know, in all different aspects. I knew nothing about scouting. I mean, watching tape is is just a very small part. I mean the you know, the roster composition and broad term thinking. Um, my first and I can say this honestly, my first exposure to the actual scouting process was in Jason Light's office and and you know, with a where I used to sit and he was right down the hall and as Jason would mention I would stop down there all the time, and you know, I was just trying to accumulate as much knowledge as I could. So, um, you know, Jason has been very influential in that regard. So to see him go on and become a GM and have the success he has isn't a surprise because I saw it every day when he was working in Philadelphia, just how talented he was. So UM, I'm I'm very thankful and grateful that I didn't annoy the hell out of him and he put up with me. So uh yeah, no, I'm sure. But but you know that goes to like, you know, the way coach kind of handles his people in the building. Um, you know, he's always open and you know, like I said, if you're a coordinator, you can come in and talk to him, but if you're a first year assistant to the head coach, you can talk to him. Um. He operates with that mindset and then the people that work for him kind of incorporate that mindset. And Jason was very much like that. I mean, Jason never closed the door. Jason never said I don't have time or I'm not going to coach you up very opening, very accommodating to me, and um, you know, I'm very fortunate, you know, to work in that environment and have the experience I had with him. So, Jason, was there a point where he went from like over eager, maybe a little annoying kid, to like, oh we maybe have maybe we have something here, like maybe maybe he's got something. I never thought annoying. I was just he you know, most days, he was very talented from the from the onset, And you know, I remember thinking, you know, it took me a while to get to that position, and um, you know, I like to pride like we all do pride ourselves in our evaluation skills. And here's this first year kid coming in as a coaching assistant and he's he's looking at three games on a player, and in my mind had him right? And I think, damn, he was very talented. Um. And it's it's no surprise to any of us that know him that he is in the position that he's in and he's you guys are doing a hell of a job. Man, do you get do you remember when he got right? Jason? Like, can you remember one? I guess there were one that sticks out where you were like shit he got like oh he was. He was a big fan of Deshaun And that's that's my uh my after I left after that year, So that was the first year I think that we were together. Um he was. He was banging on the table for for him. He's got a lot of guys. He got a lot of guys like to Sean now there Huh. The cool thing is and and uh, you know, we always talked about the guys that we got right, but you know, we get a lot wrong. And and we try to bury those stories and you know reports I should say, and pretend they don't exist. And I mean, it's a tough business and and um, you know, certainly when you have success and and you know, um you're able to bring a player in and and that player do well. Um, you know, it's it's a good thing when when stories like that I reported. But um, you know, there listen, there's been a lot of growing pains, you know, with me as an evaluator, and I continue to learn and adapt into just and you know, one of the things that I do is I look at other roster and I'm sure Jason the same thing. Other rosters and people that respect and I mean camp bases. There are a few teams I always like Seattle and Tampa Bay. I'm always looking to kind of see who they draft because it's almost like every year those guys like the same players that I like. And I think it's you know, it's sure in Lord Park, Um, you know, having that experience with Jason and kind of at the ground level kind of forming the same ideas and broad concepts as Jason. But every year I always kind of joke with my staff at you know, Tampus Board, the way they picked players and the guys they like very similar to ours, And that's no surprise. Okay, So let's get into Andy then. Um, Jason, like, you know, you look at like your experience there and you you jumped around a lot like you worked in Arizona. I think you're under both Rod and uh and Steve there right, obviously worked under Bill and Scott in New England. Um, and then later Nick, Um, what is it about Andy? Like, like when you look at the way your team is made up? Now, Um, you know what do you make of like, like, what do you make of your years with Andy? Where do you think like Andy's markings are on your roster right now. Well, Andy, uh see, he's a phenomenal coach, Hall of Fame worthy coach, and he's always been a great coach. But I think some of the biggest things takeaways I've had from him, he's just an unbelievable leader. And you can see that in the way he leads his team. You can see that the way he leads him on game day, practice, locker room, but just even in the hallways with his assistant coaches, with you know, with his even all the way down to interns. It's he's quick to give praise out to publicly to people that have done good things. But he is also quick to take the bullet when things aren't going well and people recognize that. I think he does that naturally. He means that he's very genuine with it. But as he can be intimidating is probably the wrong word, but he he can be. I mean, he could be tough, tough on people when they deserve it. But one of the things that I loved about Andy is he would just in Brett. When you were in that role, you probably attest this when he would just like walk into your office, sit down on a chair in your office and just want to just talk and just tell stories. And I wouldn't do it for a long time, but he did it when he he consents when you need it. He consents when you maybe need to relieve some tension, and he knows how to draw or or get you to talk just about Hey, do you ever drink a beer on the beach? You know? Have you ever when the sun's going down? Man, that's the best cool you know. I don't drink, but man, sitting there and I remember when I was seventeen, you know, just tell stories and sounds like you're talking to a surfer dude from California, which at heart he is. So Like what do you like as a scout? Then? Like Brett, like what do you think? Like? You know, obviously I think you guys all have as you coming up in the scouting world, like gms that you look up to, right like and guys that you kind of try to model yourself after. Like how does a coach affect you? Like? Because obviously, say that's a little different. His job description is way different than the job that you're trying to get, um like, and both of you guys can answer this, like like what sort of like impact do you think Andy has on scouts and and how does he try to involve himself with you guys at the ground floor. Um, you know as much as he might talk to his offensive coordinator, his quarterbacks coach, or his linebackers coach. Well, I mean he's you know, he's ahead of the organization and you know the face of organization and you know you're gonna model, um how you handle your staff. UM, very similar to coach. And you know, to to Jason's point, just his accessibility and you know, for a guy that has accomplished so much and has won so much, UM, for him to always be pumping, you know, popping into other people's office to try and get ideas and to get his mind stimulated. UM, here's a guy that's kind of done everything, and be very easy for him to kind of operate with the mindset of I have everything figured out, I know what I'm doing. I've been doing this a lot a long time. So for him to operate with that mindset of always you know, wanting to see what other people can bring to the organization, always looking for ways to you know, to get the thought process stimulated. UM, always knowing that it doesn't matter if you know, you've been doing it for twenty years or two years, if you're smart, you work hard, and you have some good ideas, I want to hear him. Um, it's a trickle down effects. So you know, that's that's why Jason put up with me. I think you know you kind of understand that. Like if if coach is gonna listen in the Hall of Fame coach and all these ins he's gonna listen to or once to give an intern the time of day and wants to kind of pick his brain a little, um, then you know, and he's had that kind of success, and you know, why wouldn't I operate like that? So you know when I have, um, you know, whether it be scouts some with every single day that they've been doing it for years, or or newer people. I mean, they're always gonna bring something different to the table. So I think just operating with an open mindset and letting people Coach always says is you know, let your personalities show, so letting people on your staff, letting them be who they are. UM, I mean still have to work within a framework, right, but um, but within that framework, just letting them be who they are and letting them demonstrate to you their talents on everyday basis. I think when you see Andy and the way he incorporates that, I think it's just kind of a trickle down effect to the rest of the building. And Jason, that's culture, right, that's called I mean, that's what that is, right, That's that's an organization, Like I think what Brett just described, that's organizational culture, right, no, no doubt, no doubt. And he's phenomenal like that. And I've spent five years with him, not as much as Brett, but you can feel that culture. And it didn't take them long in Kansas City too, for those guys too, and I know Brett went with him. Um, it didn't take them long to instill that. You can just see the way they play, the way they draft, the way they signed players, their decision making. Um, it all stems from just the culture. And and he's the best, He's one of the best instilling that culture. I just just gonna add there's one thing that I alway remember Andy saying, and it stays with me to this day, is through this in this business, we have a lot of you know, there's peaks and valleys and over the last few years, we've had a lot more valleys than peaks. But every day there could be something, you know, difficult, some challenges, or a bad day, something bad happened, whether it's injury or whatnot. And Andy used to always say when things were bad, whether it's the off season or the season, he'd say, hey, you know, just go to bed, wake up tomorrow. It's always better. And he's right, you know, just go to bed, get get some sleep, wake up. It's gonna be better tomorrow. So it's not gonna be it's not gonna be solved, but it's just better. Yeah. So it's so what was it like for you guys and that at that point then, like you know, and when you guys were together there and I look at the again, like you look at the group that you guys had. Obviously Joe was there at the time, Howie uh, Ryan Griggs, and Tom Hacker. Scott Cohen interviewed or was on the interview lest for the Texas GM job. He's obviously John Harbor. Now, um, you know in in in Baltimore, Like what was the what what was it like among all of you guys? Did you guys know that like how good a group that was at the time. Jason, Well, I think I think we all everybody knew that there was a lot of talent on that staff. It's hard to say back then if I felt like, I mean, we all probably felt like, you know, that we were that we had that we were talented, or we all thought everyone else was talented. It's hard to go back now. And I think that we knew that this we would have that much of a pipeline and he would have that much of a pipeline of of talented executives. But uh, you know, Breckon probably he was looking at it through a little bit different lens. He was seeing it from you know, he was working in coaching and but hanging around us. Um I knew that. I knew that. I knew that, I knew that Matt Russell's one. I knew that Ryan Grigson was, you know, at some point was gonna get his shot, and just all the guys. I knew that everybody would get their shot. Yeah, I mean, and you know from my standpoint, just getting in and and being new to the whole um personnel world, UM, I just knew that these guys are really smart and knew the game and I just had to beat around them as much as I could because it's one of those things where you know, you think you know the game until you you know, uh, you hang out with Jason LTT and you realize that I don't know as much as I thought, right, So you know, you know, coming to you have that moment like Brett, you have that moment? Did you have that moment? I mean you know you you have? Again. This is like more of when you're first getting in and you know you're you're just watching a player, but how that player fits and the cap and the roster development all those kind of things. Like so I'm going in there and I'm just telling Jason about a specific player, but um, you know, to leave there after many many conversations and realize, wow, there's a lot more of this and just watching a player and saying I like him better than him, Like, there's a lot. It's very like so, um, you know, I didn't at that time, I didn't know who was gonna go on and do great things. I just knew that I was surrounded by some really smart people that know what they're doing, and you know, just feeling like I was very fortunate to be in that type of environment. Well, if I if I impressed you, I must have the stars must have been aliven. You must have caught me at the right exact time, because you didn't catch me on all the mistakes I've made. So the who is Uh I'm thinking now and and I hate to do this because we're you know, we're on a podcast. But um, Matt Forte, I remember Jason loved loved him, and you know I remember watching him and kind of you know, Jason gave the story where like if I mentioned the guy, he remember like watching Matt Forte and feeling and Jason's like, this guy is like the next Sean Alexander. I still remember that conversation. It's like this guy is a good player. You're mind on Alexander And I was like, I don't really see that. And then like his rookie year, he has run all over the place. I was like, damn, you know there it is so and you know that one I know is true because that that one always sticks with me. So we remember stories like that. But but um, but it's probably good to like, it's probably good that you're having the like like when you're young, like when you're coming up like that. It's probably great to have those conversations because you probably like start to see holes and like what right Like I would think, like like Brett, like you start to okay, like where did I miss? Now you're looking for something else, right like and being around other good people probably helped you guys that way, right, Yeah, I think what when you play the game and you know you're watching it, you you know, if you're not in the business, and if you haven't worked in the business, you just kind of look at it through your lens and your eyes only. And you know, when you're surrounded by people that are really good at what they do and they see things differently, um, you realize that, um, you know, roster composition is is a very complex and diverse thing, and that if you're looking at things and only you know in your through your eyes, then you know you're gonna be wrong more often than not. And that's why it's a collaborative effort. And that's why Jason has a great staff with him and and and look, you know our staff to make us look good. I have a bunch of great people here, from my cap guys to people in my personnel department. I mean there's a lot of times that you know, we end up with players that you know, maybe when the whole process started we were on opposite ends of the spectrum. But you know, you know, they give some, you give some, And I think that's our job is two And this goes back to coach to. Our ultimate job is to make sure that we're always doing what's best for the organization. So, um, you know if we're wrong, you know, being able to admit that. All right, listen, you know, after doing a little bit more work and seeing things through your lenses, you know, I'm not gonna sit here and say, no, I still like this guy that no like you know, there's enough time and enough tape out there that you know we have plenty I always tell the guys you have plenty of time to make mistakes. So m let's all get on board. But um, but no, I mean, you know, and that's the thing that you get from coach to that, you know, being able to to sit in a in a collaborative process and understand that, um, you're taking all the information, you balance it, and you weigh it, and then you just go ahead and make the decision that you think is best. But It's not solely my decision. It's not Jason's decision. I know, because I know how Jason mcrant to his department. I mean, you know the people that we have working with us, you know, they have you know, a big saying what we do and that's why we've both been successful. I feel like Brett is pulling the lou Holtz on me. We're playing this week and he always talked up the opponent so much. There's no surprise with plane tamp to day. You know, you know, when did you first? I remember, I just I got to Philly and oh three and spent us there for about six or seven months, and really, I mean got to know Andy a little bit, but you know, we didn't have that real personal bond yet that he has with all of his people that work, since I hadn't been there that long. And I remember one night he came by I'm trying to think of the name of the restaurants on Front Street, that Italian restaurant that he like, you know what you mean? Yeah, but anyway, he said, hey, do you want to come with me to you know, Ricardo's or whatever it's called. And I was like sure, and I walked by and Hector goes, where are you going? He goes, and Andy invided me to Riccardo as he goes, You're in. Now you're in. It was that first moment for you. Oh, I don't know, you know that UM. When I first started, UM coach, you know, it was was in that process of helping his sons and he was in Florida with them. And I remember when I first started, I think the first three or four months, I didn't even talked to him. And the first assignment he gave UH to me, I kinda I kind of botched that, and I remember telling my dad, I said, I'm not gonna last long. I was like, we talked to coach and and you know, I've been on the job for two months and we said maybe two words. And the first thing he asked me to do, he basically didn't even look at it and said that this was not what he wanted. And but you know, I I had a little bit different avenue Jason, because I had to be with them, you know, during training camp for all that set up. So I would say sometime during the training camp, um, you know, the dog days of training camp, just you know, I got to eat with him every now a training camp because he had nowhere else to go, and in the doing the installs and so I uh, I got that a lot training camp. But um, but now it's the first few months are a little rocky for me. So I'm glad I survived that. So once you're in your in though with him, is that like like like once you're in your in, Jason, once you're in and and and but just picking you both up, you're in, right, Yeah, that's right, but just picking you're both up, you're in. Yeah. So who's butch? Butch was a security yard. It's big dom now, but before it was Butch and Butch had all the Italian connections and if if which was waiting outside for you and coach, you're in all right, I got you, I got you? Okay, Um, all right, Well we'll wrap up with a couple of last things then, like, can you guys think of there's got to be like a good story between the two of you from back then, So like if you each have like a good story or maybe you guys come up with one together from back then of what it was like to be a young scout in Philly during that time. Is there one man, there's probably several. Uh, it was such a it was a great time there too. Um, we were having a lot the success. We did a lot of things together. Training camp was always fun. I just there was never a that was up at Lehigh too, right like back then. Um, I don't know, I'm at a loss of words right now. For one, you got anything, Um no, I mean, like like Jason said, I mean, listen, it was. It was a good group. And you know, my early memories were stock and fridges full of beer for those guys, making sure we did making sure we did the beer runs. And but now listen, I mean it was. It was a great staff and and uh you know a lot of personality in that building and a bunch of these guys went on to do great things. And what was the what was the what was what was the bar in Lehigh that we'd go to? Uh we should have you know, I'm trying to think, um, because we used to when the players had the night off, we used to shut down that that whole restaurant, bar area had security, the whole nine. I know exactly what you mean. But you know, we probably each to touch base before the zoom calling soon as we hang up, but well you gotta tell me who got carried out of there, because uh yeah, alright, Like so like a couple of last things then, like do you think like both of you guys kind of you know, grew up in this coach coach centric you know systems, you for j J. Jason, for you in both um, you know, both in New England and in and in uh and in Philly, and then obviously for you Brett coming up with with Andy, Um, what do you got? What do you think you learned from Andy about the relationship between coaching and scouting because I always hear about how important that is, you know, and how important it is for the scouts to know what the coaches want, for the coaches to work productively with the scouts. So that's one of the last things I want to wrap up with you guys on It's kind of like maybe being around Andy, what you learned about what the relationship between coaching and scouting ideally should be. Well, I'll tell you that what it taught me there was now New England was a little different because you know, um there was no GM. It was Bill you know, Nick is the personnel director and Scott before him, and vice president player personnel. But in New England that you learned that the GM and the head coach, if they aren't on the same page and they don't get along, they which they did every year there and so there was success on the field. And if they don't get along, and you see this all over the NFL and for several years, you know, you can go back several years. If they don't get along, that's when the team falls apart. So the importance of that relationship and seeing eyed eye and being able to have a lot of conversations and being able to argue and and not get feelings hurt and come out of the room with a decision um is is so important. And I'm lucky I have that here with Bruce. I mean, we consider him very, very close with him, and I've mentioned that I don't think it's ever going to be replicated, and it's just such a unique relationship. I mean, there'll be other good relationships in the future, but this particular one is just so special. And I know that Brett and and Andy have a special relationship too, So I think that that is a key for you know, down the road owners looking to hire head coached owner or head coach and GM that just how important that relationship is. Yeah, that that that's so well put. Um, so there's no surprise when you look at Tampa and you look at Jason and NBA's relationship, and then you look at you know, the relationship that that coach and I that have. You know, when you have that type of relationship, when you go through um a full calendar year and you have you know, not just a season, but then these freeocy, the free process and the draft process. When you have that relationship, you know you have the trust. So when you come up with an idea or game plan, you know, coach is gonna know that you've done the work, and he's gonna trust you and your staff, and he's not going to micromanage you. He's not gonna you know, want to look at every single player anymore. It's pretty much, um, you know, let me know what you think and and and talk me through your game plan and um, you know, I'll add my my advice where I think it's needed. But um, you know, with with the you know, that cohesiveness and and the years of experience working together, you know, just a lot of trust and and again it's just something that's spread. So you know, I'll treat coach the same way I treat everyone, and when I'm meeting with Spags or EB, you know, they kind of operate like coach and and you know, it's hard to replicate that, um, when you've been working together for so long, Like you know, I can only imagine these front offices with a coach in the gym that had hadn't had a prior working relationship, what that must be like. You know, they all just to get up to speed, have to look at all the tape and and try to come up with ideas and visions and plans. But you know, the way Tampa set up now because of Jason's relationship with the head coach and the way we're set up here now, it's UM. You know, coach knows that. UM, he has a lot of respect for for what we do and he let's just do our thing, and certainly on our end, we know he's the best, you know, one of the best in the game. So when you operate like that and you're not micro imagining people and you're letting them do what they what they do, when you trust them, UM, then you know you bring out the best in people, and everyone can get to the position they need to be in in regards to, you know, wins and losses on Sunday. It's almost like you're trying to see the thing through the same set of eyes, right, Like you're trying to see it as your coach would, but you're still okay, disagreeing with each other, right, like I said, the right way to look at it. Yeah, and not no one's worried about taking credit for things that that went well. It's you know, we all did it or or you know, give it to somebody else. I don't care as long as it end result is is good, absolutely all right. Last thing then I'm gonna give you guys a chance to kind of blow each other here. So, uh, one thing that you guys admire about each other's rosters, because there if there's one thing that Jason you admire about about Brett's roster, Brett, if there's one thing you admire about Jason Jason's roster based on you know, the like, the the intricacies these way these things are put together, and how difficult it is to do. Um, what would those one things be? Jason? Why you start, Well, obviously you have to start with the speed and talent on offense, and um, they've got a pretty good quarterback if you haven't heard of them, And um, just just the overall talent is just you know in every position. And then um, defensively, um, how hard they play Just smart, they play smart, they play hard. Um they it's it's they, there's you can tell that there's purpose and everybody's on the same page. So not only are they talented, you can just tell they're just very very well coached. So, um, I know that they've done a good job of marrying those two things at Kent's City, as good as anybody has done in a long long time. All right, right, well you know once obviously the quarterbacks always the outlier in this game. Um can you can you hear me? Because this is my connections unstable I had got you obviously you know this support the quarterbacks the ultimate outlier. But if you have them, if you have the scouting uh handbook, right, the one on one for scouting, you know, build through the offense and defensive line. So you look at Tampa and I mean they got a great offensive line and they got a defensive line that you know, gave us problems the first game. So, um, you know, that's really the foundation you start for any building roster building concept is is you know, you gotta win up, you gotta get the quarterback. But once I take care of you gotta build. You gotta build good fronts. And and they have. Jason's on an outstanding job of putting together that offensive line and that defensive line, and you know that's gonna be you know, a big task for us. But um, you know, and you know what they've done. Again, I've said this before, just kind of look at their draft and you know, um, you know the Minnesota safety and the central Michigan corner. Those are two guys that you know, I thought we were gonna up draft and I told the guys when we were getting in draft a couple of years ago, I was like, you know, mostly has this guy in the third round Bunting. He'll be there. But and Tamplets with them. So that's when I was joking earlier. I was like, these guys have like the same board that you know, we have to think value with the guys. So so I felt like Jason was like swiping them from you. Then I can see it. I know that he's I'm I appreciate what he's saying, but we the respect is mutual, trust me. But was there someone there Jason that he's still from you? Uh, I'm sure. I know over the years several times after Kansas City has picked, I said ship so um. You know it's funny. Also in the draft, a lot of times the player you have a player that you're focused on, and he gets taken right before you pick, and then you settle on another guy, and then that guy becomes a really good player, but you don't want to you don't want to talk about and the other guy gets cut after two years, but you don't want to do never want to. Yeah, yeah, it's probably not It's probably not a mistake that you guys are looking for some of the same things though, right, Like I would think like it's probably like like the Murphy Bunning and the the the Windfield example. It's probably not like completely by accident, right, you know, he was probably are looking for some of the same things. Andy, my first first time I really sat down and talk to him about his you know what he looked for. You gotta obviously the quarterback, but you know, you need to build up your lines and you've gotta have good corners. So um, we do kind of think alike and I know Bruce is of the same mindset, so we are looking for the same things absolutely. All right, Well, I'm not gonna ask you guys. I'm not gonna ask you guys for game picks because I think I know how that would go. So um, He's Brett Beach, the general manager of the Kansas City Chiefs, Jason Like, the general manager of the Tampa Bay Buckners, and former former Philadelphia Eagle scouts under Andy. You really appreciate you guys doing this. Thanks Albert, Thanks all right, thanks to Brett, Thanks to Jason. That was fantastic. If you guys want more of that, we can bring it to you. We got a long offseason ahead, so be sure to get me your feedback on this and all of our podcasts. Um. You can get me on Twitter at Albert Brier, on Facebook at Albert are Brier, on Instagram at Albert Underscore Breer. Again, you want more of that, We got time now to do these sorts of things. Had a lot a lot of fun doing that with Jason and Brett. And remember to subscribe to this podcast to all of our podcasts, you guys know where to find us. That's me, that's Jenny and Connor on the Week's Side podcast. That's the mm QB podcast with Gary's Monday Morning podcast and the Gambling Podcast. We're all on separate feeds now, so you've got the three feeds. You've got my feed, you've got Jenny and Connor's feed, you got the MMQB feed. You can find us on Spotify, Stitch, your tune in, Google Play, Apple Podcast, wherever you guys get your shows. We are there. Next week, we will leave you back to wrap up super Bowl fifty five. I'll see you guys in

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