The education system is sending kids the wrong message about learning, ability, and success - and it’s leaving far too many behind. Dr. Geoff Masters reveals why age-based schooling, narrow assessment, and one-size-fits-all teaching are failing students, and what a smarter redesign could look like. Geoff is the former head of the Australian Council for Educational Research, explains the hidden lessons schools teach children: that learning is for pleasing others, that the body is separate from the mind, that learning happens alone, and that progress is just a sequence of disconnected content chunks. He shows how those assumptions shape disengagement, frustration, and the belief that some kids are simply “good” or “bad” learners.

You’ll discover:

Why 40 to 50 percent of students are disengaged in the middle years

Why the top 10 percent in a year level can be five to six years ahead of the bottom 10 percent

Why that makes the current model nearly impossible for one teacher to meet.

Geoff also breaks down how assessment should change from “how well did you learn what I just taught?” to “where are you up to now, and what comes next?

“We also unpack what schools can borrow from Finland, Hong Kong, and Wales, including multi-year learning spans, progression steps, and greater teacher autonomy. Geoff and I explore why scripted lessons and rigid standardisation often backfire, how teacher expectations shape student outcomes, and why rebuilding self-efficacy starts with showing children the progress they are already making.

 

Key Takeaways

00:30 - From science teacher to educational research leader
01:27 - How educational research shapes policy and school systems
02:18 - Why The Children We Leave Behind was written
04:39 - What the system teaches students about learning
05:45 - Learning as cognitive only, and the body being left out
06:52 - Learning as isolated and competitive rather than social
07:52 - The problem with treating learning as disconnected content chunks
09:45 - Why the early years handle learning better than the senior years
10:52 - University, relevance, and preparation for the real world
12:03 - What schools teach students about their ability as learners
13:53 - Disengagement in the middle years and the loss of agency
15:13 - Why age is a poor proxy for learning needs
17:09 - Why the system needs redesign, not just small fixes
19:23 - Moving from age-based grouping to individual learning pathways
20:29 - Why assessment should measure progress, not just completion
22:40 - Building self-efficacy by making progress visible
23:30 - Teacher expectations and their impact on student outcomes
25:16 - Why this is a whole-school and system-level challenge
26:56 - How much autonomy schools actually have
27:25 - Rethinking learning across year spans instead of single year levels
29:37 - Examples from Finland and three-year schooling phases
31:41 - Wales and progression steps instead of year-level lockstep
32:46 - Why Finland’s teacher preparation and autonomy matter
34:15 - The downside of scripted lessons and excessive prescription
35:58 - Standardisation versus true evidence-based teaching
37:19 - What parents can do to support engagement and growth
38:44 - Whether learning styles are real and how schools should respond
40:22 - If education were redesigned from scratch
41:20 - Music, proficiency levels, and learning as a continuum
42:46 - Organising mathematics around proficiency levels
43:41 - Using growth data to guide teaching and communicate progress
44:58 - Why teacher quality and pay need to rise together
47:48 - What society values, and why education needs a new starting point

 

Resources

Geoff’s book: The Children We Leave Behind

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/geoff-masters-a8526a88/

Institute for Educational Reform: https://educationalreform.org.au/who-we-are/

 

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If you found this conversation valuable, consider subscribing and leaving a review on your preferred podcast platform. Your feedback helps us continue to bring you insightful discussions on important health topics.

The education system is sending kids the wrong message about learning, ability, and success - and it&rsquo;s leaving far too many behind. Dr. Geoff Masters reveals why age-based schooling, narrow assessment, and one-size-fits-all teaching are failing students, and what a smarter redesign could look like. Geoff is the former head of the Australian Council for Educational Research, explains the hidden lessons schools teach children: that learning is for pleasing others, that the body is separate from the mind, that learning happens alone, and that progress is just a sequence of disconnected content chunks. He shows how those assumptions shape disengagement, frustration, and the belief that some kids are simply &ldquo;good&rdquo; or &ldquo;bad&rdquo; learners.
You&rsquo;ll discover:
Why 40 to 50 percent of students are disengaged in the middle years
Why the top 10 percent in a year level can be five to six years ahead of the bottom 10 percent
Why that makes the current model nearly impossible for one teacher to meet.
Geoff also breaks down how assessment should change from &ldquo;how well did you learn what I just taught?&rdquo; to &ldquo;where are you up to now, and what comes next?
&ldquo;We also unpack what schools can borrow from Finland, Hong Kong, and Wales, including multi-year learning spans, progression steps, and greater teacher autonomy. Geoff and I explore why scripted lessons and rigid standardisation often backfire, how teacher expectations shape student outcomes, and why rebuilding self-efficacy starts with showing children the progress they are already making.
&nbsp;
Key Takeaways
00:30 - From science teacher to educational research leader 01:27 - How educational research shapes policy and school systems 02:18 - Why The Children We Leave Behind was written 04:39 - What the system teaches students about learning 05:45 - Learning as cognitive only, and the body being left out 06:52 - Learning as isolated and competitive rather than social 07:52 - The problem with treating learning as disconnected content chunks 09:45 - Why the early years handle learning better than the senior years 10:52 - University, relevance, and preparation for the real world 12:03 - What schools teach students about their ability as learners 13:53 - Disengagement in the middle years and the loss of agency 15:13 - Why age is a poor proxy for learning needs 17:09 - Why the system needs redesign, not just small fixes 19:23 - Moving from age-based grouping to individual learning pathways 20:29 - Why assessment should measure progress, not just completion 22:40 - Building self-efficacy by making progress visible 23:30 - Teacher expectations and their impact on student outcomes 25:16 - Why this is a whole-school and system-level challenge 26:56 - How much autonomy schools actually have 27:25 - Rethinking learning across year spans instead of single year levels 29:37 - Examples from Finland and three-year schooling phases 31:41 - Wales and progression steps instead of year-level lockstep 32:46 - Why Finland&rsquo;s teacher preparation and autonomy matter 34:15 - The downside of scripted lessons and excessive prescription 35:58 - Standardisation versus true evidence-based teaching 37:19 - What parents can do to support engagement and growth 38:44 - Whether learning styles are real and how schools should respond 40:22 - If education were redesigned from scratch 41:20 - Music, proficiency levels, and learning as a continuum 42:46 - Organising mathematics around proficiency levels 43:41 - Using growth data to guide teaching and communicate progress 44:58 - Why teacher quality and pay need to rise together 47:48 - What society values, and why education needs a new starting point
&nbsp;
Resources
Geoff&rsquo;s book: <a href="https://www.amazon.com.au/Children-We-Leave-Behind-Differently/dp/1041279655/ref=asc_df_1041279655?tag=googleshopdsk-22&amp;linkCode=df0&amp;hvadid=729047594579&amp;hvpos=&amp;hvnetw=g&amp;hvrand=6769303968584509269&amp;hvpone=&amp;hvptwo=&amp;hvqmt=&amp;hvdev=c&amp;hvdvcmdl=&amp;hvlocint=&amp;hvlocphy=9071360&amp;hvtargid=pla-2477720199115&amp;psc=1&amp;hvocijid=6769303968584509269-1041279655-&amp;hvexpln=0&amp;gad_source=1">The Children We Leave Behind</a>
LinkedIn - <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/geoff-masters-a8526a88/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/geoff-masters-a8526a88/</a>
Institute for Educational Reform: <a href="https://educationalreform.org.au/who-we-are/">https://educationalreform.org.au/who-we-are/</a>
&nbsp;
Support the Podcast
If you found this conversation valuable, consider subscribing and leaving a review on your preferred podcast platform. Your feedback helps us continue to bring you insightful discussions on important health topics.

Host Dr Paul Taylor, a Psychophysiologist, Neuroscientist, Exercise Scientist, and Nutritionist interviews experts from around the world on cutting edge research and practices related to improving hardiness in your mind, body and brain to become your best self.

Host Dr Paul Taylor, a Psychophysiologist, Neuroscientist, Exercise Scientist, and Nutritionist interviews experts from around the world on cutting edge research and practices related to improving hardiness in your mind, body and brain to become your best self.

Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor

Host Dr Paul Taylor, a Psychophysiologist, Neuroscientist, Exercise Scientist, and Nutritionist interviews experts from around the world on cutting edge research and practices related to improving hardiness in your mind, body and brain to become your best self. 

Host Dr Paul Taylor, a Psychophysiologist, Neuroscientist, Exercise Scientist, and Nutritionist interviews experts from around the world on cutting edge research and practices related to improving hardiness in your mind, body and brain to become your best self.&nbsp;

The Children We Leave Behind with Dr. Geoff Masters AO

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/clips/4de49818-b521-4403-bd47-b4ac00ba6a11/transcript