Your thoughts on Trump's return to power

Published Jan 21, 2025, 10:00 AM

On this episode of The Middle we're asking you your thoughts on the incoming Trump administration on Inauguration Day. Jeremy is joined by USA Today Chief Political Correspondent Phillip Bailey and Tribune Content Agency Columnist and Reporter Mary Sanchez. The Middle's house DJ Tolliver joins as well, plus callers from around the country. #Trump #inauguration #executiveorder #2025 #border #deportation

The Middle is supported by Journalism Funding Partners, a nonprofit organization striving to increase the sustainability of local journalism by building connections between donors and news organizations. More information on how you can support The Middle at Listen to Them Middle dot com. Welcome to a special edition of The Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson, along with our house DJ Tolliver and Tulliver. There is a lot going on right now, on a holiday of all days. President Trump is now President Trump again. He's not former President Trump. He's not President elect Trump.

You know, and who doesn't love a sequel? And you know, and this time we're going to Mars.

Did you do that?

Well, that's that's what Alon Must says. I think there are a lot of people that we're probably going to hear from who don't love a sequel. But uh, you know, we've seen executive orders already signed removing the US from the Paris Climate Accord, directing federal workers to work in the office rather than remote. And of course then there's the issue of tariffs, and Trump is saying today that he wants to put twenty five percent tariffs on everything coming in from Mexico and Canada starting next week. So, like I said, a lot going on. In his inaugural address, Trump said he was saved from that July assassination attempt quote by God to make America great again.

That is why, each day, under our administration of American Patriots, we will be working to meet every crisis with dignity and power and strength. We will move with purpose and speed to bring back hope, prosperity, safety, and peace for citizens of every race, religion, color, and creed. For American citizens. January twentieth, twenty twenty five is Liberation Day.

So whether you feel that way or not, we want to hear from you this hour about your hopes and fears as Trump retakes the presidency. What does it mean for you? What does it mean for the country. Can you give us the number please?

Yeah, it's eight four four four Middle, that's eight four four four sixty four three three five three, or you can write to us at Listen to the Middle dot com. And TikTok's still here for now. So we're still streaming on YouTube, Twitch and TikTok.

And now Instagram and Facebook too. We just keep adding them more and more until they go away. Like MySpace, and then we'll have to find them all. Anyways, let's bring in our panel. USA Today Chief political correspondent Philip Bailey joins us from Louisville, Kentucky. Phillip, great to have you back, Hey, Jeremy, how are you doing well? And from Kansas City. Mary Sanchez, reporter in Calmness for the Tribune Content Agency. Mary, welcome back to you as well.

Thank you well.

Before we get to the phones, Philip, with every change in the White House, every four years or every eight years, comes big changes for the country. There are some people who are not happy and some people who are ecstatic. Is this one different?

Well, it is in this way President Donald Trump is returning to office. Here Jeremy capping off one of the most extraordinary political comebacks in history, returning as the forty seventh president, more popular and more powerful than before, just a mere four years after leaving Washington in defeat, and what some would say in disgrace. Quite honestly, USA Today. Suffolk University did a poll recently. They found that more Americans are less troubled by Trump's return than his initial arrival. About thirty one percent in our poll said they felt excited about him taking office, equal to about thirty one percent of respondents said they felt afraid. Now, we asked that same question December of twenty sixteen, and they found only sixteen percent felt excited versus thirty eight percent who are alarmed. I think this victory and the way the President Trump won sweeping all the swing states, winning the popular vote, albeit by one point five percent, and gained a more diverse coalition, I think this is a different victory, and therefore I think there's a different response that even the opposition is having to President Trump.

Mary, what do you think you are in a very purple part of the country in Kansas City. You've got a Democratic governor in Kansas and a Republican, very Republican state in Missouri these days? How is it playing out there? What are people feeling?

You know? I think it's it's like anything. It depends on who you're speaking with, who your friends are. I think some people are absolutely mortified that he is back in office again. I know immigrants, particularly Latino communities, are very on edge, fearful. Some of that I think has been frankly reporting that has driven up that anxiety. We're still finding out what's going to happen. You know, we're gonna have to wait and see. Missouri is a very red state. It used to be a bell weather and it is no longer. So I think there are there are lots of people here who vote Republican and have always voted Republican, very strongly. They feel very right, but some of you know, to the right. But on a lot of issues that we would normally used to call cultural issues. In lesbian transgender, which was mentioned today, there's.

All of that.

But some of the things that President Trump is speaking about now is this tariffs, This is agricultural land. We have a FOURD assembly plant here. All of those things could come into play very quickly in ways that some of his supporters may not find pleasurable.

Well, and Philip, just in the last few hours, we've seen Trump pardon fifteen hundred January sixth rioters. He would call them hostages, but they were convicted and so he'd issued a pardon. And he has said this about the tariffs threatened to Canada and Mexico with tariffs. He's doing a lot of things very quickly. Pulled out of the Paris Climate acord. What are you what are the biggest changes that you're expecting in the hours and days ahead.

Look, I think some of this is going to be jeremy some bluster a little bit. Let's all remember that. Let's remember the original before we move into the sequel. Donald Trump is really good at this one thing. He's really good at showmanship, right, So whenever he's backed into a political corner, the showmanship goes up. And I think that's one thing you'll see consistently here, For example, renaming the Gulf of Mexico. He's doing that officially, I guess, for the US government, but there are the international organizations that control that, right, Like how many folks are just gonna be calling it the Gulf of America.

Where he does it.

But there are some changes here that he's making that will be consequential. I think the January sixth rioters pardons well, particularly for someone like Enrique Terio, the founder and the leader of the Proud Boys, who as six to twenty two years in prison for seditious conspiracy. The question I have is, now that you all have this, what is going to be the buyer's remorse weeks months from now, particularly from some of his supporters who may want him to go in a different direction. I'm particularly interested, Jeremy in this ongoing or emerging beef within Trump's governing cold of sort of the og maga folks like Steve Bannon, Laura Luhmer and others, and so the new wave tech bros who sort of adopted Trump in these past years or so. There's already some conversations, some back and forth between them. So I think we're going to see, obviously the usual reversal in these executive orders and changes. He has a very raised within majority in the House, and of course a pretty solid majority in the Senate and the more conservative tilting Supreme Court. But you know, governing is a whole different ballgame than politicking, and we'll see how much of Donald Trump has learned from his first go round. I think Susan Wilds's chief of staff, is probably one of the most important additions to this new team. And I think I'm also watching Senator Marco Rubio.

Who's now confirmed out of the Senate Committee as Secretary of State.

Right.

Yeah, some some things he's learned, perhaps some things he may have not have learned. There's still a lot of bombasticness to his nature, but this.

Is a president who likes to cut a lot of deals as long as he looks good.

So there might be some folks from his base in his government coalition who will find out very quickly as others have found out his business life. In personal life, Donald Trump will make a deal and sell you up the river pretty fast.

Let's go to the phones again. Our number is eight four four four six four three three five three. It's eight four four four Middle. Ashley is joining us from Houston. Ashley, welcome to the Middle. What are you thinking about today as Trump retakes the White House?

I honestly have never been a big fan of Trump. However, after his inauguration speech today, I was really impressed. So I am very optimistic about, you know, just his new view and I really think that I'm going to give him a chance to stround.

What do you mean by that? What impressed you? What did you hear that you liked in the speech today.

I've never heard him talk about inclusivity. I've never heard him talk about unining the country, about liberation and liberty, and I really think that's what we need today. And I think that he has kind of taken a different position than that stance he had in the past, and so I think ultimately he needs a second chance.

Let me ask you one more thing, Ashley, what would you say is the top issue for you as a voter in this country?

Okay, the top issue for me? Honestly, he didn't touch on it, but it has to do with like high tech crime. It's something that's been going on in our country that people aren't talking about. You know, we have a high tech domestic perist network that's been operating in the United States, engaging in crimes, and government has been covering it up. They have labeled it Havana syndrome, when in fact the crime network has been operating here secretly and government in Houston and the United States government has been covering it up. So it's something definitely they need to tackle.

You're the first person I've ever asked that question too who has given me that answer. But Ashley, thank you very much for calling. I appreciate it. And Mary Sanchez, you know, this is the thing is like five people could listen to a Trump speech and hear five different things, but Ashley heard unity there today.

Absolutely, and I think probably the portion that she's speaking to was wheen he was reading remarks and that was a much more toned down Trump. There were certain messages that were there, but he was reading from the teleprompter. Later he kind of deviated and became more of what some people call more of the problematic Donald Trump. There were also, though, things that he said, even in that first speech that for those of us who have worked around communities of color, who my father is an immigrant from Mexico City. It's kind of red flag verbiage. He was talking about a country being color blind. No one is color blind. That's like one of these crazy myths that people don't notice color, that we don't notice differences. Of course we do. It's human nature. So that's just kind of one of those verbal cues. And here we are on Martin Luther King Junior today and to hear that, you know, it is a little disturbing.

Yeah again our number eight four four four six four three three five three Tolliver. There were some pretty big names on the Democratic side who did not attend the inauguration, including Nancy Pelosi and Michelle Obama.

Yeah, but many Democrats did. Here's Minnesota Senator Amy Klobashar, my former senator, speaking with Trump sitting right behind her.

Our theme this year is our enduring democracy. The presence of so many presidents and vice presidents here today is truly a testament to that endurance. This ceremony marks what will soon be two hundred and fifty years of our democracy. It is the moment when leaders, elevated by the will of the people, promise to be faithful to our constitution, to cherish and defend it.

Not sure if she was needling Trump when she noted the presence of former presidents, because of course Trump didn't go to Biden's inauguration four years ago.

She was, she was reading him as they say.

More of your calls are coming right up on the middle. This is the middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. If you're just tuning, in the Middle is a national call in show. We're focused on elevating voices from the middle geographically, politically, and philosophically. Or maybe you just want to meet in the middle this hour. We want to hear your thoughts as a new Trump era begins in America. Tolliver, what is the number of people to call in?

It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four four six four three three five three. You can also write to us A listen to the middle dot com or on social media.

I'm joined by tributing content agency reporter and columnist Mary Sanchez and USA Today Chief political correspondent Philip Bailey, and the phones are lighting up. But before we go back to them, Philip, what about the role of billionaires today at the inauguration? Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Sindhar Pachai, who, by the way, are worth collectively about a trillion dollars. What are the concerns about the richest people in the world having such access, unprecedented access to the president.

Well, you know, a feature I think of this second Trump administration will be that Trump has not just consolidated his dominance in the Republican Party and had a full take over there, but he's also bringing former foes and critics to heal and as you mentioned, the tech bros, who you know, Donald Trump certainly had a very tense relationship in his first term, and many in his coalition did accusing them of being part of covering up different or at least suppressing information on certain news stories like the Hunter Biden laptop and other issues. Now are completely on board with him. I think this is what Democrats would rather have the conversation about. I think they would love the image or have already begun to use the image of seeing now the billionaires are in control. It was President Biden, former President Biden. Now in his outgoing farewell speech, you mentioned the oligarchy embedding itself into our democracy. But you know, this is something that Democrats were reluctant to dive into really in their convention because guess what, they had billionaires on their own roster, like the governor of Illinois or like honoring George Sorows. So look, as Democrats try to find themselves and rebrand themselves, I think they'll certainly take the relationship, particularly the relationship with Musk, who I think went from an eccentric character to a more alarming character today with that sort of Nazi salute that he did at the Capitol One Arena. So these more eccentric billionaires and their behaviors and decision making, I think you'll see Democrats accentuate those they were already beginning to call Elon must the co president.

Well and Mary. The interesting thing here is that you know, Trump is surrounding himself with these billionaires, and yet so much of his message has been about helping the little guy when it comes to either bringing down prices or bringing jobs back and things like that.

I think that's the danger of this. It almost goes twofold. If you study class in America, we tend to have these huge miss about Horatio Alger miss but most people don't leave the class level that they were born into. And people now who are really struggling know that inherently, even as much as they aspire and work really hard. So there's there's some danger there if he, you know, gets crosswise with people who are really struggling at the same time when he looks like he's being buddy buddy with people who are extremely wealthy at levels that most the average person cannot even fathom. There's some real danger of a disconnect there with these people who actually did vote for it.

Let's get back to the phones and Jonathan is in Kansas City. Jonathan, welcome to the middle.

Go ahead, Hi, I'm in Kansas City. To Kansas Actually, just to make that clear to the people at home, my feelings in the election are sorry, my feelings the election are honestly shame Like I'm twenty two, I voted in twenty sixteen against Trump. I had very strong feelings then that have not been tamped down at all. In twenty sixteen, we kind of, you know, we didn't know what we were dealing with.

To borrow a.

Phrase, we kind of, you know, he was a new, up and coming you know, it wasn't it wasn't a career politician. But after seeing his absolute mismanagement of the pandemic, among other issues, his transactional relationship with autocrats and whatever, we you know, we rightfully elected someone else and then we did it again. And he still doesn't understand tariffs is the scariest part too, because he says, I'm going to fix the economy. These other countries are paying with paying the tariffs. That's not how terrorists work. And that concerns me.

Is that the biggest is that the biggest concern for you right now, Jonathan, of all the things that he is going to do as he gets going as president again, is the tariffs are number one for you? Would you say not?

I wouldn't say that. It's more of climate change is a huge thing, because you know, he pulled us out on the Paris Climate Accords, and that really is problematic the tariffs, I could that's more of an argument if he doesn't understand what he's doing. But the fact that he's pulling out of the Paris Climate Accords, these very important, you know, for my future, in my children's future, if I ever have children. That's the biggest important part. And that's what's concerning for me, is he doesn't understand the complexity.

Of these issues. And I don't know.

It's just I'm ashamed and concerned for the future.

Jonathan, thank you, and thank you for telling us it's Kansas City, Kansas, not Kansas City, Missouri. For you, Thank you. I appreciate it. Philip Bailey, a couple of things there, But let's talk about the climate aspect. Because he pulled out of the Paris Climate Accord, he got rid of mandates and involving electric cars. Today he's saying drill, baby, drill. And yet he's working with Elon Musk so much, who definitely does believe in climate change, and you know is the electric car man with Tesla. So what do you think about that and what he's doing with the climate change.

I think we all are going to have to learn to adapt to President Trump. I think if we're looking for consistency and the things that President Trump says or he does. There isn't a governing philosophy like Reaganism or Clintonian triangulation or even when President Obama was in office. Right, there's no sort of guiding principle to President Trump's philosophy other than Donald Trump and how he feels in the moment, who makes him feel good about the situation, and whatever deal he makes, whoever he's talking to at that moment, So he'll say things like we're gonna get rid of these electric cars, and then he's working with someone who's in great about the business model is based on electric cars. Right, Like these contradictions that think we in the press and his opposition have tried to call people's attention to the American public has largely said, we don't care.

We just want to see some results.

And I point this out, Jeremy, because when I was talking to different Democrats and left leaning organizations, including Our Revolution, the largest grassroots political progressive action group in the country, they shared some internal tracking polling with me with their membership and they found, Jeremy that sixty three percent of their membership want to quote support initiatives of common ground with the Department of Government Efficiency right on things like cutting wasteful spending in the Pentagon, versus thirty seven percent who said they should always oppose Trump no matter what. So those diehard Democrats who can't stand Trump from twenty sixteen, they are completely startled this country's decision. But there is a portion I think of Democrats and others who are like, he's president again, let's make a deal. And they're not really looking for consistency. They know who Donald Trump is. He's been in our politics now for about ten years. They know he's full of contradictions. They know he says he's rather wild, ridiculous things. But whoever gets access to him and in the room with him, they can make a deal with him.

They'll certainly take advantage.

Right, people can have influence, certainly with Donald Trump. Let's go to Abraham, who's in Chicago. Abraham, what do you think as we enter a new era of Trump in America?

Yeah, how's it going?

I actually pretty excited about the economy as a policy in American and as my truck driver of the domestic intermodal loads that comes straight from twenty to forty foot containers. I'm excited about the economy and excited on the new foreign policy that he's going to approach this upcoming year.

The new foreign policy meaning what what are you excited about when it comes to foreign policy?

Well, foreign policy with we all know with the twenty twenty Abraham Accords that occurred from of the events that this past four years, there was a really movement going on with that, you know, with Dallas on Israel, with Sura, with bhar with blog getting pushed to the north. It's going to be very interesting to see the approach with the new Secretary of State as well with Mark Arubo and how they're gonna deal with Natanya who's government, and to bring the broader peace to a reason, because he did say today that he's a peacemaker. So let's see what he's talking about.

Let me ask you one more thing, Abraham, are you when you talk about the economy or are you excited about the idea of tariffs?

Yes, I am excited. I think he's going to persuade other countries to want to do business with the US and it's gonna improve the domestic supply of goods coming out of the country, going to different countries, so I think it is going to be better in my opinion.

Okay, Abraham, thank you very much for that. Mary Sanchez on the issue of peace there. And there are a lot of people who believe this just Trump coming in means there's going to be a different foreign policy and maybe some of these conflicts that have been going on for a very long time. I mean, we just saw the ceasefire which was worked out with I guess people from both the Biden administration and the now the Trump administration. But the ceasefire in the Middle East, maybe there'll be some movement on the war in Ukraine, et cetera, et cetera.

I think we're all holding our breath on that. You know, certainly everyone wanted to see, what I should say, everyone, many people were very happy to see hostages released and to see people be able to walk out after October seventh. At the same time, I mean, I covered a lot of the turmoil on universities, particularly younger people are really watching the Middle East, and we've already heard some fears of you know, they want peace, they want a peaceful country. No one is wanting us to enter into a war. But yet young people in particular, are very very focused and conscious on things going on around the globe, and they will be looking for the President and this new administration to really play a strong role in keeping peace and sometimes that peace through force and everything. You know who Trump in certain you know allows in his circle. I don't know that they're going to always feel positive about where he's going with that.

Let's go to Bianca, who is in Aurora, Colorado. Bianca, what do you think about Trump's new term in the White House.

I really believe that he's going to make a lot of positive changes and I am really looking forward to whatever he does. And the only thing I am concerned about is this whole naming of the Panama Canal. I really think there should be more dialogue about it. But other than that, I think that he has some great ideas.

All right, great, Actually, I'm glad you brought up the Panama Canal because Philip Belly Greenland. He wants to take Greenland. He wants he wants to retake the Panama Canal. He wants to make Canada the fifty first day. You can't really tell what he's being serious about with this and what is just he's throwing it out there to see what happens. But are you expecting movement on those things?

No?

I mean, remember the wall was supposed to be paid for by Mexico.

I mean Donald Trump's style.

If any, everyone has watched the Apprince is that bio pick of Donald Trump and sees where he got his sort of mentorship from. You're always in attack mode. You're always pitching, You're always throwing things out there to see what sticks. Some of this might go somewhere. The thing with Greenland might turn into sharing of some sort of resources. I mean not be in the United States buying greenland right. There may be a whole deal struck with with Canada. They might come you know, Drudeau's out now there's a whole new government coming into Canada. They may want to make a deal with Donald Trump. Say hey, you know what, mister president. We know you're not going to make us a fifty first day, but here's something we can work on. And I think that is where Look, Donald Trump is already a lame duck now, and the political timing hasn't changed. The calendar is the same as it has always been. There midterms coming up, and really after that, he turns even to more of.

A lame duck, and he wants a legacy.

This is a president you can tell, who is yearning and searching for to get his face etched in Mount Rushmore somewhere.

He wants to Louisiana purchase or whatever.

Right this sort of new manifest destinies sort of he's trying to adopt here. He wants to write his name in the history books in some sort of grand way here. And the question would be how much of his governing coalition will remain to include Republicans because on some of these issues he may go to Democrats in the House, he may go to Democrats in the Senate. Remember, Donald Trump spent most of his life as a liberal Democrat in New York. So I think that we're going to see here not really a guiding consistent political philosophy. It's going to become as it goes, see what it is. In some ways, I'll be dealing with John Fetterman. Some days I'll be dealing with Speaker Mike Pince. In other days I might be actually dealing with maybe Hackeen Jeffries. I think that's what the American people have got to get used to when it comes to Donald Trump, there is no consistency here.

Brie is joining us from Westchester, Pennsylvania. Brie, what do you think about the new Trump term?

Well, I'm personally a little worried for the uptoming policy, you know, reading some of the executive orders that President Trump is signed today, and of them, one of them was redefining sex under US law. And I'm just worried for those who do consider themselves transgender, both adults and minors, what that would entail in.

For the next four years.

Yeah.

Uh, that's a good point. And he actually brought up in the inaugural speech, uh, Mary Sanchez, the idea that from now on, he says, the US will only have two genders, man and woman, which you know, there is a sizable transportion of you know, population in this country. Who would say that's that's not you know that that doesn't make sen for people who are who are who don't consider them who are gender fluid, who don't consider themselves one or the other. So what what about that? And Breeze concerns.

Well, and that that's part of where Donald Trump and the rhetoric does run up against facts and scientific facts, I mean, gender dysphoria is real. Doctors have known that for decades now. It's been recognized. And this is, you know, transgender. I think he is. He could possibly be in a dangerous land by going too far. You know, a lot of what he speaks to, particularly on these you know, pulpit podiums, is to his very strong base. That is what today was about. He is the president of the United States, however, and he must govern for everyone, and if he leans too far into some of those issues just to please a certain voice or frankly, to get the cheers from his supporters, he does risk losing other people that possibly might be open to him.

Well that's a really interesting point. And Philip, I remember when we had you on last and we were talking about whether he won the middle and I think you said, yes, he did at least some degree. This time. What is the calculation from a president about whether to just appeal to their base versus to appeal to the broader electorate.

Well, I think you know, you need your base because that is what gives any president their political might, particularly like in mid terms or the bully pulpit. Essentially, right, the president of the United States could enter a room and immediately, So it's take all the oxygen out of it when they're in a popular position or place. And I think if there's anyone to ask how important that is, ask Joe Biden, who in his exit interview said, Oh, I was really good at the policy part, the politics not so much. I mean, today we saw Trump signing these executive orders at the rally and showing everyone, see what I've done, Look what I've done. Because I think Trump understands that your average American isn't reading scientific journals about body dysmorphia, right, They're not reading these deep essays about critical race theory or our country's racial history. He understand that your average American cares far more about what the cost of milk is, what they see on their phones or on TikTok and everything else. So he's been able to, I think, exploit that in the way the Democrats sort of lost the appointment and lost the plot here about what government's all about, the people get things done.

The question just stand by for a second, because Tolliver, a lot of the fear that we're hearing about Trump's return to the White House was because of things he said himself.

Yeah, like when he said he wanted to be a dictator on day one, which is today. He is during a town hall with Fox News anchor sawn Annity back in twenty twenty three.

Under no circumstances, you are promising America tonight, you would never abuse power as retribution against anybody.

Except for day one, except he's going to christ Except for day one, meaning I want to close the border, and I want a drill.

That's not all. That's real, that's not that's not retribution. I'm gonna be.

I'm gonna be, you know, he keeps I love this guy. He says, You're not going to be a dictator, are you?

I said, no, No, No other.

Than day one. Again, today is day one.

Today is the day look out and they look out.

We'll be back with more of your calls on the Middle. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. This hour, we're asking you for your thoughts on Trump's return to the White House and what that means for America and for you. You can call us at eight four four four Middle, that's a four four four six four three three five three. You can also reach out at Listen to the Middle dot com or Tolliver you can find us on which platforms? Again?

Livestream every single platform, all two, Instagram, TikTok, Snapchat.

No, not sip chat, but Twitch, which whatever that is. No, I'm kidding, I know I kind of now know what Twitch is. I am joined by USA Today Chief Local correspondent Philip Bailey and Tribute Content Agency reporter and columnist Mary Sanchez. And before we go back to the phones, Mary, what will the opposition do this time around? You aren't seeing the big protests as much resistance as we saw back in twenty seventeen, at least not yet. What kind of opposition are you expecting this time?

I know it's already happening. I mean, we've done some interviews where people are doing their homework. You know, they're waiting to see what's occurring. You know what He's going to sign an executive orders certainly today, But they're looking at building coalitions. I think I think you may not see, you know, outpourings like Black Lives Matter, but there are a lot of people who know how to do grassroots organizing. I think if they're going to be successful, they need to kind of start reaching out broader and broader. And some of them know that. I mean, you know, the ACLU is probably being funded right now at very high levels and matter FICC. Some good reporter probably needs to check that because they are one of the organizations that will be challenging many of the things that Trump is going to try and do, particularly around immigration. So I think, you know, people are planning, they're working, They're not just sitting.

Back, Philip. Is there somebody who's going to emerge or is starting to emerge as sort of the face of the opposition in Washington.

Look, I've been covering some of the early stages of this RNC chair race, and I think that's the first place.

You're going to see d NC chair race. D ncchair race.

And you have different candidates, you know, Ken Martin of Minnesota, Ben Wickler of Wisconsin certainly can't forget governor from a governor of Maryland, Martin O'Malley and others who are in that contest.

So I think that's gonna be the first test.

But Mary's right, I mean, you're going to see leetle challenges, You're going to see folks reconfigure. I do think again, Jeremy, that parts of the left are going to have a two pronged approach here. There's obviously going to be on the values that are very important to progress, those like protecting the undocumented community, protecting the trans community, that they're not going to waver on. But I do think you're going to see some Democrats, and it might be some surprising figures who are going to broach Donald Trump on some things of hey, let's get something done, because they know that their constituents really are wanting people to be served in a way by government. So look, Democrats aren't really sure how exactly uniformly they're going to approach Donald Trump. I think the activists left obviously is going to try to reconfigure things. But I'm very interested to see, particularly some of these court challenges like the birthright citizenship, who the ACLU and others who.

Go to before the Supreme Court. Who they aim their arguments at.

Is gonna be Justice Amy Cony Barrett just as Brett Kavanaugh, depending on which case it is. The Supreme Court will play a vital role here over the next four years.

Let's go to Bobby who's in Echo Park, California. Bobby, what do you think about this new Trump era in America?

Can you guys kid me, Yeah, go ahead, I'm excited.

I'm Obama Hillary Biden voter who now voted for Trump and and, for lack of a better term, like a coastal elite, you know, educated, lived in Brooklyn, live in La now and I'm just.

I think there's a lot of me, you know, I'm someone who's just increasingly pushed away from the Democratic Party. For lack of a better term, I think the speaker just used the term activist left, and yeah, the lack of common sense, the condemnation of anyone who disagrees with you, you know, calling me, calling people transphobic, for you know, whatever it is, thinking men shouldn't compete against women in powerlating competitions or whatever. I'm excited and cautiously hopeful that it might h lead the Democrats to maybe look in the mirror. I haven't seen it yet. I'm not seeing it, so I'm, like I said, cautiously optimistic. It seems like they're just going to double down on labeling everyone you know who disagrees or who defected as as capital be bad. So but yeah, I'm excited. It seems like Trump as wild as he is, and it just seems like a return to common sense. As wild as that is to say, and how and as unlikely as I would have thought it would be for me to say that in twenty sixteen, for example, when he first got elected.

Yeah, Bobby, thanks great, great to have you on the show. And Mary Biden Obama, Hillary Trump voter. Interesting.

Yeah, that's I actually wrote that down as even speaking, because that is interesting, you know, and you would have to spend more time with someone to really kind of unthread that and figure out what exactly was going on within his life at those different portions he went that way. I think a lot of people do vote just for change, and Trump was a change from Biden. You know, you hear people talk about is that the woke conversations and they're pushing back. Part of that, I think is our inability to have these real conversations. The transgender population is relatively very small. I bought this in newsrooms even you know, you don't want to start building narratives that a population, although very deserving of protections, I think personally think, but I think if you ask people, they'll think that that are transgender population in the US is much larger than it actually is.

Right And it's talking about all the time.

I mean.

The campaign right.

Absolutely, and that there's a part of that where Democrats really failed. They failed to do some of that educating most school districts, public school districts have dealt with that issue of athletics when a child is you know, in transition. They've dealt with that for decades. But Jeremy, whenever, you know, no one ever brought it up, and it suddenly just became this huge issue and it overtook things. But end of the day, does that help your caller in their living, in their cost of living, in their wages. No, there's nothing to do with it.

But Jimmy, I think that's that that caller there said, Well, I heard it from a lot of people on the campaign trail. A lot of Democrats were disaffected folks who were left of center.

And a lot of their values.

And one of them said to me, look, if I say that an illegal immigrant killed a young girl in Georgia, right, democrats are more upset with me because I said I llegal immigrant, then the fact that the girl was killed. And I think this is where Democrats, I guess, forgot the plot and the wolf stuff sort of why it was so easy for Democrats, I mean Republicans to use against them is that people are asking to be served. A lot of Americans are very clumsy in the rhetoric. They don't know the right thing to say. They might say something may be kind of tiny offensive to you if you have all your checks marked off, But so what, that's not the point. The federal government's job isn't to regulate how you talk about the issues. That's not the president's job, that's not the speaker's job, the Chief justice job. Your job is to serve the people. So some folks are going to come to you and say some really clumsy, ugly, maybe even bigoted things from time to time, and Democrats focused far more on that, and I think Trump was able to seize on that in the way the Democrats really didn't think that they would.

Yeah, I just don't know if I've heard that at the federal level of Democrats, especially on the transgender issues. Am I missing somebody who's been talking about this more than I think like Democrats engaging with the transgender issue.

Certainly, I don't think Tolliver at the federal level of the outrage merits sort of the response at the federal level. But I do think what Republicans are just better at than Democrats is they're able to speak to common people who don't pay attention to politics every day and give them that fifteen second pitch on why I care about it more than they do, because I'm responding to the thing that gets people viscerally angry and upset. People are upset when someone is killed, regardless of their nationality and background. But yes, if an illegal immigrant on an undocumented person comes to this country and does that, people get more upset, apparently, And rather than focusing on the rhetoric of how people talk about the issue, Republicans are trying to respond I think to why are you upset about the issue? And Democrats more than likely, I think in this this year are going to pivot.

Back to that.

Let's go to Chester. Who's in Denver, Colorado? High Chester?

Welcome to the middle Go ahead, Oh thank you, I it's sending you picked up my call as I'm actually a trans person and one of the biggest concerns that.

I do have is over the Trump's presidency. Just like the legality of having just genders that are assigned at birth. I worry so much Uh, about the people in my community, but not only my community, people of color, immigrants, people in Palestine. As we're really in this place right now where Uh there's a Ceasford deal happening. But uh, several people have been killed already today.

Uh.

And it's just so upsetting to know that Trump wants to make all have all helgig loose in the Middle East.

Well, let me just let me just let me just ask you focused on the transgender issue, uh and your community, what would what would you want if if you know somebody in the Trump administration was listening to this right now, what would you say to them about that issue that if you if you had their their ear for a moment.

Of course. So my father is a Trump supporter and has voted for him every time he has run. It's something that is very difficult for me because I know that he loves me as his child. I think just listening to transass and knowing that they're people rather than the things that people really struggle with, like pronouns and gender markers. Beyond that, we are people. And I think that I understand the Republicans and right leaning people that they struggle with these things. But We've always been around and regardless of it being legal or not, we will continue to be around. That it is scary to know that this administration is so hostile towards my community.

Yeah, Chester, thank you so much for calling in. Mary Sanchez just amazing and Tolliver, by the way, amazing that you know the callers that we get on this program. But Mary Santa is to hear that from somebody who really feels targeted directly, who feels that their own life is really on the line here with Trump coming back in. And there are probably many people in different groups that feel that way as Trump comes back into.

The White House.

Yeah, there are, I mean, I know there are. And that's part of what as part of the challenge for the nation, I think, and for Democrats is how do you allow those voices to be heard and the questions to be asked. Perhaps we just don't have the quote safe spaces for people to be as Philip was saying, clumsy with language. Most people who are bored straight you are born to what you are. You know, they've never thought about it, that's a matter of fact. This is one way that you kind of train peoples. Ask them how long have you known that you were straight, and they'll say, I've always known, and that's that's one way to get people to understand that other people don't feel that way and it's different, right, you know, But those but those conversations aren't had. You know, Chester needs to be heard and maybe in a place where questions can be asked so people can learn. So it peels away that fear, and frankly, it peels away at what Trump is very good at. That is very dangerous and that's dehumanizing people calling people labels and names because you never know when maybe it's a big donor, a big GOP donor, and then their child is who you're speaking of.

Let's go to the phones again, and Chris is in Dallas, Texas. Chris, welcome to the middle.

Go ahead with your thoughts, Hey, yeah, yeah, just on the call and talk about, you know, the new energy prospects that the bringing in and some of the new possibilities coming up and looking forward to bridge the gap. And then on the topic that you're just talking about, I worry that you know, they talked about those safe spaces that there really are a lot of places that people have been so conflicted and there's been so much, you know, angst on all sides that I fear that maybe now that we've gotten past this point, we can find the middle, find the point of people being able to talk and just having the adult conversations about what needs to be done moving forward.

Yeah, what about the issue of energy excites you, by the way when it comes to Trump.

So obviously I do like the idea of the drill, baby drill, for the idea of utilizing the resources to get to a more efficient solution long term. A lot of things that they've looked at you right now for power and solar, they're getting there, but the scale that they've been doing in it hasn't been as efficient as it could be. There's a lot of new nuclear technologies that can provide the energy that we're going to need, definitely in the short term, a lot better than some of the solar and wind that we're looking at him. Some of the battery technologies, that's something that hasn't been really looked at, And there's just the options that we can get to. I felt that we were too hamstrung just by trying to do something for the sake of doing what we think might be right or then looking at really what is the best options all around and getting those moving forward.

Yeah, Chris, thank you for that call. Philip Bailey, We should note that even in the Biden administration, the US is producing more energy than ever before, including from things like natural gas. What is Trump exactly going to be able to do now quickly on the issue of energy and drill baby drill.

Well, Look, if there's any issue that requires long term thinking and investment, I think it's the energy issue.

And Doug Bergh of the former.

Governor of North Dakota, who is now in the administration, is I think one of the more smart one of the smartest men I've encountered when it comes to talking about this issue. But again it goes back to what you said, people don't really know what the Biden administration a lot of times the policies that they.

Were already working on that was already benefiting the country, right.

And Donald Trump's like, for example, Republicans really like the election results that have a whole lot of faith in the Republican of the election results. Now that Donald Trump won, many think that probably wouldn't happened. I Kamala Harris had probably won on November I know I had all kinds of gas masking gear prepared for a different election night, but anyway, So look, this is I think the key difference between Biden and Trump. One is a showman. One is always selling, always in the mode of telling you what he's doing great, what he's doing big, even if nothing's actually happening, whereas in Biden has admitted he didn't do that well at that part. He didn't have circuits out there selling the ideas in his accomplishments. So look, and I think whether it comes to energy or the trans issue, the question for people when engaging Donald Trump is what can I get out of this?

Right.

For the folks who don't want to deal with him at all because they've written him off as a bigot or whatever else, I understand they're never going to deal with him. But for those who are going to engage with this president, what I'm looking for is where does Donald Trump want his legacy to be at. Which constituencies is he willing to lean into would really be favorable with, How's he going to referead this emerging fight between Elon Musk and Steep, and which side is he going to pick. He's known to do that from time to time, folks pick one side one minute and be on the other side of the next. So I think again here when it comes to energy, I think that's a very dense subject and conversation that is really going to be negotiated in Congress. But I don't think you're gonna see gas prices go to a dollar ten anytime soon.

And Mary Sanchez, I'll just give you the last word, just have about thirty seconds here. But one of the first things we're going to be talking about it in the next few days, including on our show this week, is immigration, the deportations that will begin soon. What are your just your your thoughts as we get ready to start focusing on that.

I think that's where you're going to really start seeing the courts play in a lot of what he's talking about. That the fourteenth Amendment, the birthright citizenship that's already gone through the courts all the way up and through the US Supreme Court. There's just a logistical issue that it would be very hard to really do what he claims he's going to do. I think a lot of people don't understand immigration, though we deport people every single day, I mean deport it's really removed removals. We don't deport, but the average person doesn't know that. I think he may claim victory claim something that people just don't know happens all the time anyway.

That is Mary Sanchez, who is a Trite Tribune content agency reporter and columnist. And we've also been speaking with USA Today Chief political correspondent Philip Bailey. Thanks so much to both of you, and we'd love to have you back soon.

See you soon, Jamie, thank you.

And later this week, as I said, we'll be live for the studios of WNIN in Evansville, Indiana to discuss one of the biggest promises of Trumps, which would be the deportations. We're going to be joined by Grinda Carr, who's the CEO of the Immigrant Welcome Center in Indianapolis, and the new Republican Lieutenant governor there, Micah beckwith.

As always, you can call in at eight four four four Middle that's eight four four four six four three three five three, where you can reach out to listen to the Middle dot com, where you can also sign up for our free weekly newsletter, and don't forget to check out our new video podcast on YouTube. You can watch Us as well as hero Us.

The Middle is brought to you by Long Nick Media, distributed by Illinois Public Media and Orbana Illinois, and produced by Harrison Fatino, Danny Alexander Samburmisdas, John Barth, Anikadeshler, and Brandon Condritz. Our technical director is Jason Croft. Thanks to all of them for working on this holiday, and thanks to our satellite radio listeners, our podcast audience, and the more than four hundred and twenty public radio stations that are making it possible for people across the country to listen to the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. I'll talk to you later this week.

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The Middle with Jeremy Hobson is a national call-in talk show focused on bringing the voices of Amer 
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