Welcome to One Thing Trump Did, available exclusively on The Middle podcast feed. I'm Jeremy Hobson. Each week on this podcast, we're looking at one thing President Trump did, since there is so much happening, and we try to break things down in the same rational, nonpartisan, factual way we do on The Middle. In this episode, our focus is Trump's attacks on the media. In his first term, President Trump often called the press the enemy of the American people, and he publicly feuded with reporters like CNN's Jim Acosta.

Welcome to One Thing Trump Did, available exclusively on The Middle podcast feed. I'm Jeremy Hobson. Each week on this podcast, we're looking at one thing President Trump did, since there is so much happening, and we try to break things down in the same rational, nonpartisan, factual way we do on The Middle. In this episode, our focus is Trump's attacks on the media. In his first term, President Trump often called the press the enemy of the American people, and he publicly feuded with reporters like CNN's Jim Acosta.

Mister President elect, go to President elect, since you are attacking our news organization, can you give us a chance? You are attacking our news organization. Can you give us a chance to ask a question? Sir?

Mister President elect, go to President elect, since you are attacking our news organization, can you give us a chance? You are attacking our news organization. Can you give us a chance to ask a question? Sir?

Sir?

Sir?

Can you say, mister president go ahead, president alike, can you give us a don't us? Can you give us a question? Don't be Can you give us any question? I'm not going to give you.

Can you say, mister president go ahead, president alike, can you give us a don't us? Can you give us a question? Don't be Can you give us any question? I'm not going to give you.

You are fake news?

You are fake news?

Sir.

Sir.

Well that was then this time around, Trump has already banned the Associated Press from covering White House press events over their decision to continue to refer to the body of water just south of the United States as the Gulf of Mexico rather than Trump's preferred Golf of America. He's also sued media organizations and have settled some of those lawsuits. His FCC chairman is investigating public radio stations, and now the White House is considering changing up the layout of the White House press briefings to put some of the more cheerleading reporters in the front of the room. Well, joining me now is someone who's been following all these developments, CNN Chief Media analyst Brian Stelter, who puts out the Fantastic Reliable Sources newsletter. Brian, Great to have you on.

Well that was then this time around, Trump has already banned the Associated Press from covering White House press events over their decision to continue to refer to the body of water just south of the United States as the Gulf of Mexico rather than Trump's preferred Golf of America. He's also sued media organizations and have settled some of those lawsuits. His FCC chairman is investigating public radio stations, and now the White House is considering changing up the layout of the White House press briefings to put some of the more cheerleading reporters in the front of the room. Well, joining me now is someone who's been following all these developments, CNN Chief Media analyst Brian Stelter, who puts out the Fantastic Reliable Sources newsletter. Brian, Great to have you on.

Great to be here, Thanks for having me in the middle.

Great to be here, Thanks for having me in the middle.

Okay, so let's go through some of these changes, starting with the AP. They're still banned from the press pool because they won't use the term Gulf of America for the non journalist listening. Why does it matter that the Associated Press is not getting the access that it has always had?

Okay, so let's go through some of these changes, starting with the AP. They're still banned from the press pool because they won't use the term Gulf of America for the non journalist listening. Why does it matter that the Associated Press is not getting the access that it has always had?

Two big reasons.

Two big reasons.

Number One, the Associated Press is one of the biggest news outlets in the world. It's a foundational part of the press corps. The first time there was ever a White House Press pool, it was the Associated Press doing the work, letting us know if a president was alive or dead. That goes back more than one hundred years. So the AP is part of the fabric of the American news media. When the Trump White House targets the AP, it's also sending a message that it can take out anybody else, that even the AP is not too big, too important to be protected. And the number two, the real message that Trump is sending is that we should use his words or else, that what he says should go, period, end of story. That if he says Golf of America, if he changes the name inside the US government, then the entire world should just roll over and do whatever he wants. And that's a dangerous precedent for a news organization because it might be the Golf of America or the Golf of Mexico today, but what's it going to be tomorrow? And for the AP, it simply can't go along with what Trump says.

Number One, the Associated Press is one of the biggest news outlets in the world. It's a foundational part of the press corps. The first time there was ever a White House Press pool, it was the Associated Press doing the work, letting us know if a president was alive or dead. That goes back more than one hundred years. So the AP is part of the fabric of the American news media. When the Trump White House targets the AP, it's also sending a message that it can take out anybody else, that even the AP is not too big, too important to be protected. And the number two, the real message that Trump is sending is that we should use his words or else, that what he says should go, period, end of story. That if he says Golf of America, if he changes the name inside the US government, then the entire world should just roll over and do whatever he wants. And that's a dangerous precedent for a news organization because it might be the Golf of America or the Golf of Mexico today, but what's it going to be tomorrow? And for the AP, it simply can't go along with what Trump says.

Well, the AP is fighting back in court. Do you expect that they'll win?

Well, the AP is fighting back in court. Do you expect that they'll win?

I think it's.

I think it's.

Quite likely the AP will win at least a limited ruling on First Amendment grounds. Right now, this case is before a Trump appointed judge who did not immediately rule in favor of the AP, but did say, you know, the president in this case benefits the news outlet and not the government. He basically signaled that this was going to be a hard case for the White House to win. Now that said, he also at a recent hearing maybe wondered where's the line, Where should he draw the line? Should the AP be required into a really small group events. He's wrestling with that right now. We don't know how he will rule, but there is a history of news outlets being able to challenge and dway House decisions and win. You remember, during Trump's first term, CNN was in a spat with the White House when correspondent Jim Acosta's press pass was revoked. CNN went to court, CNN pretty quickly prevailed. The Trump white House had to let Acosta back in. So there is a history here, But this time around, the Trump white House has been much more aggressive.

Quite likely the AP will win at least a limited ruling on First Amendment grounds. Right now, this case is before a Trump appointed judge who did not immediately rule in favor of the AP, but did say, you know, the president in this case benefits the news outlet and not the government. He basically signaled that this was going to be a hard case for the White House to win. Now that said, he also at a recent hearing maybe wondered where's the line, Where should he draw the line? Should the AP be required into a really small group events. He's wrestling with that right now. We don't know how he will rule, but there is a history of news outlets being able to challenge and dway House decisions and win. You remember, during Trump's first term, CNN was in a spat with the White House when correspondent Jim Acosta's press pass was revoked. CNN went to court, CNN pretty quickly prevailed. The Trump white House had to let Acosta back in. So there is a history here, But this time around, the Trump white House has been much more aggressive.

So why won't the AP just to look at it from the other side, Why won't they just use the term Gulf of America as others including Google have.

So why won't the AP just to look at it from the other side, Why won't they just use the term Gulf of America as others including Google have.

Because the rest of the world calls it the Golf of Mexico, you know, because this is a body of water that is now contested in the same way that the South China Sea is contested. In this case, the US government has one name and the rest of the world has another name, and in an environment like that, the AP uses both names. The AP says, hey, it's the Golf of Mexico. That's what's been called for four hundred years. But Trump has decreed it is the Golf of America. So essentially, the AP is trying to recognize the controversy and acknowledge it has clients and customers all around the world. But in doing so, you know, I think Trump would say, you're not putting America first, right, that would be his response, put America first, use the name that I tell you to use. Ultimately, it's a power play on Trump's part, and you know, it has had a little bit of a chilling effect within the rest of the American news media as journalists try to figure out what language to use without you know, getting on the President's bad side, so to speak.

Because the rest of the world calls it the Golf of Mexico, you know, because this is a body of water that is now contested in the same way that the South China Sea is contested. In this case, the US government has one name and the rest of the world has another name, and in an environment like that, the AP uses both names. The AP says, hey, it's the Golf of Mexico. That's what's been called for four hundred years. But Trump has decreed it is the Golf of America. So essentially, the AP is trying to recognize the controversy and acknowledge it has clients and customers all around the world. But in doing so, you know, I think Trump would say, you're not putting America first, right, that would be his response, put America first, use the name that I tell you to use. Ultimately, it's a power play on Trump's part, and you know, it has had a little bit of a chilling effect within the rest of the American news media as journalists try to figure out what language to use without you know, getting on the President's bad side, so to speak.

Speaking of a chilling effect, let's talk about some of the other lawsuits and settlements which you could say are even more distressing. ABC News settle the lawsuit for sixteen million dollars because anchored George Stephanopolos said Trump was liable for rape rather than sexual assault. And then Meta, which I would say is a media organization these days, settled with Trump, who claimed he's been censored by them. Now he's suing CBS in sixty minutes for the way it edited an interview with Kamala Harris before the election. Why are these companies settling with Trump.

Speaking of a chilling effect, let's talk about some of the other lawsuits and settlements which you could say are even more distressing. ABC News settle the lawsuit for sixteen million dollars because anchored George Stephanopolos said Trump was liable for rape rather than sexual assault. And then Meta, which I would say is a media organization these days, settled with Trump, who claimed he's been censored by them. Now he's suing CBS in sixty minutes for the way it edited an interview with Kamala Harris before the election. Why are these companies settling with Trump.

Because in most cases, these are really big companies with big legal butdton with libel insurance, with the ability to pay and the ability to make problems go away with money. You know, it must be nice, right, but that's the reality for some of these companies. It is cheaper to write a check and make Trump go away than it is to fight him, to again end up on his bad side, to have a protracted legal case, to see him extract revenge or attribution in.

Because in most cases, these are really big companies with big legal butdton with libel insurance, with the ability to pay and the ability to make problems go away with money. You know, it must be nice, right, but that's the reality for some of these companies. It is cheaper to write a check and make Trump go away than it is to fight him, to again end up on his bad side, to have a protracted legal case, to see him extract revenge or attribution in.

Other ways, etc. Etc.

Other ways, etc. Etc.

You know, these companies are making really cynical I would say, really clear business risk reward, you know, decisions and proceeding accordingly. But it is very worrisome, and we've heard that from journalists at CBS News, for example, where this lawsuit against sixty minutes is hanging over the heads of the journalists as well as the parent company. You know, for the context here about Paramount Shery Redstone, who controls Paramount, the owner of CBS, is trying to suit Paramount.

You know, these companies are making really cynical I would say, really clear business risk reward, you know, decisions and proceeding accordingly. But it is very worrisome, and we've heard that from journalists at CBS News, for example, where this lawsuit against sixty minutes is hanging over the heads of the journalists as well as the parent company. You know, for the context here about Paramount Shery Redstone, who controls Paramount, the owner of CBS, is trying to suit Paramount.

She wants to get out of the family business.

She wants to get out of the family business.

She wants to cash out, take billlions off the table, go retire, or do something else with her life.

She wants to cash out, take billlions off the table, go retire, or do something else with her life.

In order to get that deal done.

In order to get that deal done.

In order to get her billions, she has to win Trump administration approval for the deal. So that is the context for this sixty Minutes lawsuit. She sees Trump suing CBS. She sees Trump wanting to win, wanting to say he beat sixty Minutes, a program that he is long ranted about, and so she has personally urged the board of the company, urged the lawyers of the company to try to reach a settlement, to try to pay Trump to go away, so to speak.

In order to get her billions, she has to win Trump administration approval for the deal. So that is the context for this sixty Minutes lawsuit. She sees Trump suing CBS. She sees Trump wanting to win, wanting to say he beat sixty Minutes, a program that he is long ranted about, and so she has personally urged the board of the company, urged the lawyers of the company to try to reach a settlement, to try to pay Trump to go away, so to speak.

She has not succeeded.

She has not succeeded.

However, there's been real internal resistance, and I also think on the Trump side, they're not willing to settle for the amount that Paramount's offering. So for now there hasn't been a settlement, and sixty Minutes has been out there trying to defend itself saying this is frivolous, this is a meritless lawsuit, which it is. It is a frivolous lawsuit. But it's a great example of the different incentives that are in play here.

However, there's been real internal resistance, and I also think on the Trump side, they're not willing to settle for the amount that Paramount's offering. So for now there hasn't been a settlement, and sixty Minutes has been out there trying to defend itself saying this is frivolous, this is a meritless lawsuit, which it is. It is a frivolous lawsuit. But it's a great example of the different incentives that are in play here.

Right.

Right.

The incentives for sixty minutes are to do the work, do the journalism report on Trump fearlessly without favor. The incentives for the parent company are to write a check and try to make them go away and bother somebody else. And that is exactly what we're seeing at these different companies. And as you said, Meta settled, Disney settled, some of these big law firms or striking deals.

The incentives for sixty minutes are to do the work, do the journalism report on Trump fearlessly without favor. The incentives for the parent company are to write a check and try to make them go away and bother somebody else. And that is exactly what we're seeing at these different companies. And as you said, Meta settled, Disney settled, some of these big law firms or striking deals.

Right.

Right.

We just did an entire episode about that. And by the way, I think also about the Washington Post, owned by Jeff Bezos, who also owns Amazon and other companies, and kind of many would say caved to Trump around the time of the election, and so many people have left the Washington Post since then. Every time I open up another newspaper, the Wall Street Journal or the New York Times or whatever, I see the bylines of people that used to work at the Washington Post. Do you expect that a lot of these journalists are going to leave these companies if they settle with Trump, just out of principle.

We just did an entire episode about that. And by the way, I think also about the Washington Post, owned by Jeff Bezos, who also owns Amazon and other companies, and kind of many would say caved to Trump around the time of the election, and so many people have left the Washington Post since then. Every time I open up another newspaper, the Wall Street Journal or the New York Times or whatever, I see the bylines of people that used to work at the Washington Post. Do you expect that a lot of these journalists are going to leave these companies if they settle with Trump, just out of principle.

Every reaction has reactions. I mean, that's what you're describing, and that's what I'm seeing as well. There are many of these cases already where a news outlet appears to be softening itself, currying favor with Trump, trying to take it easy, trying to lay low, trying not to get hit by a lawsuit or or a Trump post. And the result is that some of the journalists either either leave, speak out, resist in other ways. And that's definitely a tug of war.

Every reaction has reactions. I mean, that's what you're describing, and that's what I'm seeing as well. There are many of these cases already where a news outlet appears to be softening itself, currying favor with Trump, trying to take it easy, trying to lay low, trying not to get hit by a lawsuit or or a Trump post. And the result is that some of the journalists either either leave, speak out, resist in other ways. And that's definitely a tug of war.

That's happening right now.

That's happening right now.

It's it's maybe more obvious at some places than others. At the Washington Post, it's really obvious. Bezos has curry favored with Trump in multiple ways. Trump has returned to the favor. Trump has been praising Bezos in interviews, so has Caroline Levitt.

It's it's maybe more obvious at some places than others. At the Washington Post, it's really obvious. Bezos has curry favored with Trump in multiple ways. Trump has returned to the favor. Trump has been praising Bezos in interviews, so has Caroline Levitt.

We've seen this.

We've seen this.

It's it's not like it's in hiding this. In this case, it is very obvious what is happening. And one of the results has been this uprising within the Post, especially on the opinion side. Bezos says he wants to reorient the opinion pages to be about personal liberties and market and Bezos is free to do whatever he wants, So the opinion section, that's historically well within the rights of the hipper owner to decide the editorial prerogatives of the institution. But we've seen a number of columnists leave, some launching their own sub stacks and startups as a result. And in the newsroom there's a lot of fear that some of this is going to trickle into the newsroom as well well.

It's it's not like it's in hiding this. In this case, it is very obvious what is happening. And one of the results has been this uprising within the Post, especially on the opinion side. Bezos says he wants to reorient the opinion pages to be about personal liberties and market and Bezos is free to do whatever he wants, So the opinion section, that's historically well within the rights of the hipper owner to decide the editorial prerogatives of the institution. But we've seen a number of columnists leave, some launching their own sub stacks and startups as a result. And in the newsroom there's a lot of fear that some of this is going to trickle into the newsroom as well well.

And trickling into the newsroom, does that mean that these newsrooms, because of the fear of lawsuits, are going to be careful in how they edit interviews or even who they interview or what stories they do because Trump has scared them into doing that. Right.

And trickling into the newsroom, does that mean that these newsrooms, because of the fear of lawsuits, are going to be careful in how they edit interviews or even who they interview or what stories they do because Trump has scared them into doing that. Right.

I made a comment about some of this is more visible. In other cases it's less visible. It's really hard to see what's not reported. It's almost impossible to know when a story is softened or or a word is left out, or a quote has left out, or a source is not called for a quote, you know, to some extent, you know, we're talking about ghosts at this point. But I do think we're seeing a lot of exemplary journalism in spite of all the pressure tactics that you and I are talking about, so I think to give credit where it's due. You know, the fact checkers of the Washington Post still.

I made a comment about some of this is more visible. In other cases it's less visible. It's really hard to see what's not reported. It's almost impossible to know when a story is softened or or a word is left out, or a quote has left out, or a source is not called for a quote, you know, to some extent, you know, we're talking about ghosts at this point. But I do think we're seeing a lot of exemplary journalism in spite of all the pressure tactics that you and I are talking about, so I think to give credit where it's due. You know, the fact checkers of the Washington Post still.

Call a lie a lie.

Call a lie a lie.

You know, the journalists, the investigative reporters of the Post are still trying to chase down leads about agencies that are shut down in ways that might be illegal.

You know, the journalists, the investigative reporters of the Post are still trying to chase down leads about agencies that are shut down in ways that might be illegal.

The work is still.

The work is still.

Going on on an individual level, but institutionally, there are all of these warning signs. There are all these alarm bells ringing. And that's most of the way I see it. Do you think that's too optimistic? Maybe no.

Going on on an individual level, but institutionally, there are all of these warning signs. There are all these alarm bells ringing. And that's most of the way I see it. Do you think that's too optimistic? Maybe no.

I mean, I look, I still read all these papers, I still follow the news, so I think I still trust what I'm seeing. But it is worrying to see places that are such important institutions kind of not be as courageous as they once were speaking truth to power or just holding people accountable. Anyway, stay with us, We're going to take a quick break. One Thing Trump did with ceeing in Chief media analyst Brian Stelter. Ope, right now, welcome back to One Thing Trump did exclusively on the Middle podcast feed. I'm Jeremy Hobson. In this episode, we're talking about President Trump's attacks on the media and how those attacks are escalating in his second presidency. I'm joined by CNN Chief Media analyst Brian Stelter. Brian, let's talk about what's happening at the FCC, a little close to home for those of us in the public media world. Chairman Brandon Carr has announced he's investigating public radio stations on the issue of whether they're adhering to the strict underwriting guidelines that they have to follow that they don't allow commercials. So, just for audience to understand, I could say on public radio, funding for the middle comes from John Deere, maker of a new tractor that comes in six different colors. More information at John Deere dot com. But I you wouldn't say funding for the middle comes from John Deere. They make the best tractor around. Buy one today at Johndere dot com. I'm not allowed to do that. That's a call to action. So my suspicion is that they are not. The FCC are not going to find any or many violations here. But if the administration, the Trump administration, doesn't want public radio to have public money, why go after the private funds like this?

I mean, I look, I still read all these papers, I still follow the news, so I think I still trust what I'm seeing. But it is worrying to see places that are such important institutions kind of not be as courageous as they once were speaking truth to power or just holding people accountable. Anyway, stay with us, We're going to take a quick break. One Thing Trump did with ceeing in Chief media analyst Brian Stelter. Ope, right now, welcome back to One Thing Trump did exclusively on the Middle podcast feed. I'm Jeremy Hobson. In this episode, we're talking about President Trump's attacks on the media and how those attacks are escalating in his second presidency. I'm joined by CNN Chief Media analyst Brian Stelter. Brian, let's talk about what's happening at the FCC, a little close to home for those of us in the public media world. Chairman Brandon Carr has announced he's investigating public radio stations on the issue of whether they're adhering to the strict underwriting guidelines that they have to follow that they don't allow commercials. So, just for audience to understand, I could say on public radio, funding for the middle comes from John Deere, maker of a new tractor that comes in six different colors. More information at John Deere dot com. But I you wouldn't say funding for the middle comes from John Deere. They make the best tractor around. Buy one today at Johndere dot com. I'm not allowed to do that. That's a call to action. So my suspicion is that they are not. The FCC are not going to find any or many violations here. But if the administration, the Trump administration, doesn't want public radio to have public money, why go after the private funds like this?

Intimidation A chill right, A chilling effect.

Intimidation A chill right, A chilling effect.

We've used that phrase and we're going to keep using it because that's the commonality between all of these different cases. I agree with you that the SEC likely will not find what it claims to be looking for, but I'm also not sure they're really trying to find it. And what I mean by that is we've seen Brennan Carr, the SEC chair, who is very loyal to Trump, who is hanging out at mar A Lago, who is riding on Air Force one. He has open investigations into Disney and Comcast as well. He has sent you know, ominous sounding letters to lots of different media companies. And sometimes the claim is about dei initiatives. Sometimes the claim is about these you know, these sponsorships. But all of it is of a piece, right, All of is related. All of it is about using the power of government to say we're paying attention, we're watching you, we're scrutinizing you in these cases, we are investigating you, we're looking for wrongdoing. And you know, a real cynic would say that that's about trying to apply pressure against these media outlets, trying to intimidate them, trying to tie up staffers and lawyers, and you know, spend money in that way. You know, we do know frivolous lawsuits exist in the private sector in that way. So there's a version of that with government as well that I think we're seeing now. I've talked to Kara a bunch. He would say that he's just trying to balance the scales. He would say that the scales have been tipped against conservatives, the government's been weaponized against the right, and he's just trying to balance it out. That's what he would say. But I think this scoreboard is what the scoreboard is. He has encouraged an investigation of CBS over that sixty minute segment. He has dismissed a complaint against Fox. You know, the scoreboard is what it is.

We've used that phrase and we're going to keep using it because that's the commonality between all of these different cases. I agree with you that the SEC likely will not find what it claims to be looking for, but I'm also not sure they're really trying to find it. And what I mean by that is we've seen Brennan Carr, the SEC chair, who is very loyal to Trump, who is hanging out at mar A Lago, who is riding on Air Force one. He has open investigations into Disney and Comcast as well. He has sent you know, ominous sounding letters to lots of different media companies. And sometimes the claim is about dei initiatives. Sometimes the claim is about these you know, these sponsorships. But all of it is of a piece, right, All of is related. All of it is about using the power of government to say we're paying attention, we're watching you, we're scrutinizing you in these cases, we are investigating you, we're looking for wrongdoing. And you know, a real cynic would say that that's about trying to apply pressure against these media outlets, trying to intimidate them, trying to tie up staffers and lawyers, and you know, spend money in that way. You know, we do know frivolous lawsuits exist in the private sector in that way. So there's a version of that with government as well that I think we're seeing now. I've talked to Kara a bunch. He would say that he's just trying to balance the scales. He would say that the scales have been tipped against conservatives, the government's been weaponized against the right, and he's just trying to balance it out. That's what he would say. But I think this scoreboard is what the scoreboard is. He has encouraged an investigation of CBS over that sixty minute segment. He has dismissed a complaint against Fox. You know, the scoreboard is what it is.

It's interesting we actually had him on the middle before Trump came into office, because he was very much in favor of banning TikTok. It'll be interesting to see now that Trump doesn't want to ban TikTok anymore, whether Carr gets in line. I'm guessing probably he will get in line behind Trump and not be so adamantly against TikTok anymore. But just on the issue of public broadcasting, I have to say, as somebody who I've been working in this medium my entire license. I was a kid in Illinois hosting a talk show for kids. I'm sort of expecting right now one day to wake up and see that Elon Musk has gotten into the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, locked the doors, kicked everybody out, fired them, and you know that's it. What do you think.

It's interesting we actually had him on the middle before Trump came into office, because he was very much in favor of banning TikTok. It'll be interesting to see now that Trump doesn't want to ban TikTok anymore, whether Carr gets in line. I'm guessing probably he will get in line behind Trump and not be so adamantly against TikTok anymore. But just on the issue of public broadcasting, I have to say, as somebody who I've been working in this medium my entire license. I was a kid in Illinois hosting a talk show for kids. I'm sort of expecting right now one day to wake up and see that Elon Musk has gotten into the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, locked the doors, kicked everybody out, fired them, and you know that's it. What do you think.

I hope you're wrong, but I fear you're right. We have seen Doege do this at other similar organizations. We've seen it in recent weeks at the US Agency for Global Media, have Voice of America and other outfits.

I hope you're wrong, but I fear you're right. We have seen Doege do this at other similar organizations. We've seen it in recent weeks at the US Agency for Global Media, have Voice of America and other outfits.

You know, public broadcasting is.

You know, public broadcasting is.

Unique though, in that Republicans like to rail against it. It feels good and it makes for a good SoundBite, but then they always fund it when it comes time for Congress to write the appropriation's budget.

Unique though, in that Republicans like to rail against it. It feels good and it makes for a good SoundBite, but then they always fund it when it comes time for Congress to write the appropriation's budget.

You know.

You know.

So every year in Trump's first term, he came out claiming that PBS and NPR should be defunded, and then every year Republicans funded MPR and PBS.

So every year in Trump's first term, he came out claiming that PBS and NPR should be defunded, and then every year Republicans funded MPR and PBS.

The The reason is obvious.

The The reason is obvious.

It's because on the local level, in lots of states and local markets, these stations are really vital, and that hasn't changed. Of course, the politics have changed around DOGE and around how this is all talked about. But I do think it's notable that in polling, you know, we see there is widespread support for public media. Of course that doesn't stop Elon Musker DoD from trying various maneuvers, but there is a lot more support than, for example, there was for USAID. You know that public media does have a unique space. But you know, what we're seeing against public media, what we're seeing against the US Agency for Global Media, you know, it's all related. I think of this as like there's a dozen different examples and we've touched on most of them at this point of pressure points against the American news media.

It's because on the local level, in lots of states and local markets, these stations are really vital, and that hasn't changed. Of course, the politics have changed around DOGE and around how this is all talked about. But I do think it's notable that in polling, you know, we see there is widespread support for public media. Of course that doesn't stop Elon Musker DoD from trying various maneuvers, but there is a lot more support than, for example, there was for USAID. You know that public media does have a unique space. But you know, what we're seeing against public media, what we're seeing against the US Agency for Global Media, you know, it's all related. I think of this as like there's a dozen different examples and we've touched on most of them at this point of pressure points against the American news media.

And some of those.

And some of those.

Pressure points are really easy to access and they're really painful for the people involved.

Pressure points are really easy to access and they're really painful for the people involved.

Others are more subtle.

Others are more subtle.

They can't, you know, put you out of business or kill the proverbial patient, but they can still hurt. But they're all these pressure points, and it feels like the Trump administration's trying to poke all of them at the same time. Let's file lawsuits, let's try to defund the public media. Let's try to probe these companies through the FCC let's threaten their licenses, let's demean them on social media, let's intimidate them in other ways. It's a dozen pressure points. They're all being they're all being hit at the same time, and we don't know how this ends, Like, we don't know.

They can't, you know, put you out of business or kill the proverbial patient, but they can still hurt. But they're all these pressure points, and it feels like the Trump administration's trying to poke all of them at the same time. Let's file lawsuits, let's try to defund the public media. Let's try to probe these companies through the FCC let's threaten their licenses, let's demean them on social media, let's intimidate them in other ways. It's a dozen pressure points. They're all being they're all being hit at the same time, and we don't know how this ends, Like, we don't know.

What the result of all this pressure is.

What the result of all this pressure is.

We don't know what the outcome will be of all this pressure being applied against the free press.

We don't know what the outcome will be of all this pressure being applied against the free press.

Yeah, I want to ask about one other thing that's happening. And it may sound yeah, which one did I forget?

Yeah, I want to ask about one other thing that's happening. And it may sound yeah, which one did I forget?

I'm sure I forgotten the pressure points?

I'm sure I forgotten the pressure points?

No, no, no, But there's another thing that's happening just in general that may not seem that important compared to these other ones, but maybe it is. You tell me, the White House wants to control who gets to sit where in the press room, which has typically been done by the White House Correspondens Association. Does this matter and why does the White House want to do this?

No, no, no, But there's another thing that's happening just in general that may not seem that important compared to these other ones, but maybe it is. You tell me, the White House wants to control who gets to sit where in the press room, which has typically been done by the White House Correspondens Association. Does this matter and why does the White House want to do this?

This is another one of the pressure points because of the symbolic value it has as well as the substantive impact that it could have.

This is another one of the pressure points because of the symbolic value it has as well as the substantive impact that it could have.

Symbolically, the White House is saying.

Symbolically, the White House is saying.

We're in charge, we decide, we decide who gets to sit where, and you know, by extension, what kinds of questions are going to be asked. Now, we'll see if this plan is actually put in place, But if it is put in place, it will also have a real practical impact because if pro Trump media stars, you know, I think people say podcasters, but there's actually not a lot of podcasters that want to cover the White House every day.

We're in charge, we decide, we decide who gets to sit where, and you know, by extension, what kinds of questions are going to be asked. Now, we'll see if this plan is actually put in place, But if it is put in place, it will also have a real practical impact because if pro Trump media stars, you know, I think people say podcasters, but there's actually not a lot of podcasters that want to cover the White House every day.

But there are a.

But there are a.

Bunch of pro Trump websites, pro Trump digital outlets, pro Trump streamers that would like to have access more often if they are put in the front rows, and the big old newspapers and TV networks that actually have bigger audiences, if they're kicked into the back rows, that will change the dynamic of the briefings when the briefings happen. And we've already seen that with coverage of President Trump. There are pro Trump personalities that are frequently being added to that press pool that the ap was kicked out of.

Bunch of pro Trump websites, pro Trump digital outlets, pro Trump streamers that would like to have access more often if they are put in the front rows, and the big old newspapers and TV networks that actually have bigger audiences, if they're kicked into the back rows, that will change the dynamic of the briefings when the briefings happen. And we've already seen that with coverage of President Trump. There are pro Trump personalities that are frequently being added to that press pool that the ap was kicked out of.

The guy that's dating Marginie Tayler Green, who went when Zelensky was in the over loscaid why aren't you wearing a suit? He was a quote unquote reporter, I guess.

The guy that's dating Marginie Tayler Green, who went when Zelensky was in the over loscaid why aren't you wearing a suit? He was a quote unquote reporter, I guess.

And it affected Zelensky. It changed the tenor of the conversation, and we see that on Air Force One when Trump tastes questions. We see that in the Oval office, in these small group settings where there are q and as the questions have already been tilted.

And it affected Zelensky. It changed the tenor of the conversation, and we see that on Air Force One when Trump tastes questions. We see that in the Oval office, in these small group settings where there are q and as the questions have already been tilted.

You know, going back to the idea.

You know, going back to the idea.

Of that balance, you know, it's already imbalanced when you have these opinion people and frankly propagandists who are pretending to be journalists who are in the room with the other journalists. I think we will probably see that in the briefing room when there are briefings. We're also seeing that at the Pentagon. By the way, some big news outlets, including CNN were booted from their longtime workspaces, ANDBC is another example, The New York Times as an example, and they've been replaced for this year. The Pentagon says it's a one year change. By names like Breitbard and One America News, some explicitly pro Trump outlets. At the Pentagon, there has not been a single press briefing.

Of that balance, you know, it's already imbalanced when you have these opinion people and frankly propagandists who are pretending to be journalists who are in the room with the other journalists. I think we will probably see that in the briefing room when there are briefings. We're also seeing that at the Pentagon. By the way, some big news outlets, including CNN were booted from their longtime workspaces, ANDBC is another example, The New York Times as an example, and they've been replaced for this year. The Pentagon says it's a one year change. By names like Breitbard and One America News, some explicitly pro Trump outlets. At the Pentagon, there has not been a single press briefing.

Instead, they put.

Instead, they put.

Out videos on x You know that there are not the traditional examples of engagement with the media. Instead, there is military propaganda that is supposed to look like news coverage, and I think We're going to continue to see that all across the government. And I would say that is another one of these pressure points because some of these agencies, some of these department heads, they believe or they want to try replacing the news media with their own people, you know, with their own pr people, with their own promoters. To some degree, that might work in the short term, I actually don't think it can be that successful in the long term. I think a lot of what we're talking about here and genders a backlash among people who just want to know what is true and real. It doesn't mean that people are going to rise up and go go to pro media rallies.

Out videos on x You know that there are not the traditional examples of engagement with the media. Instead, there is military propaganda that is supposed to look like news coverage, and I think We're going to continue to see that all across the government. And I would say that is another one of these pressure points because some of these agencies, some of these department heads, they believe or they want to try replacing the news media with their own people, you know, with their own pr people, with their own promoters. To some degree, that might work in the short term, I actually don't think it can be that successful in the long term. I think a lot of what we're talking about here and genders a backlash among people who just want to know what is true and real. It doesn't mean that people are going to rise up and go go to pro media rallies.

I'm not saying that.

I'm not saying that.

You know, journalists are not meant to be popular. You know, we're meant to be rabble rousers. We're meant to be asking awkward questions at awkward times, you.

You know, journalists are not meant to be popular. You know, we're meant to be rabble rousers. We're meant to be asking awkward questions at awkward times, you.

Know, ya YadA, YadA, YadA.

Know, ya YadA, YadA, YadA.

But I do think all in total, when you take all of this together, most people want to know what's real in the world, and they don't want the government to be the only source of information. They don't want to just be told trust Trump, go check his true social feed to see.

But I do think all in total, when you take all of this together, most people want to know what's real in the world, and they don't want the government to be the only source of information. They don't want to just be told trust Trump, go check his true social feed to see.

What's going on.

What's going on.

No they actually do want people asking real questions and getting real answers, and so these pressure points are real, but the reaction to them might be real too.

No they actually do want people asking real questions and getting real answers, and so these pressure points are real, but the reaction to them might be real too.

There is talk right now of different outlets banding together to try to stand up to the president just on this issue of the seating chart. Do you expect that to happen?

There is talk right now of different outlets banding together to try to stand up to the president just on this issue of the seating chart. Do you expect that to happen?

I think this notion of collective action has been very difficult to put into practice because, well, let's hit the White House. For example, there's an association where everybody works together in a limited way to cover the president when he's traveling and to get messages out when there's a small group with the president.

I think this notion of collective action has been very difficult to put into practice because, well, let's hit the White House. For example, there's an association where everybody works together in a limited way to cover the president when he's traveling and to get messages out when there's a small group with the president.

But we're talking about rivals, you know.

But we're talking about rivals, you know.

These are dozens of rivals, dozens of competitors, and getting everybody who competes every day to work together to preserve access is difficult. It's doable sometimes in some cases, but it's really difficult.

These are dozens of rivals, dozens of competitors, and getting everybody who competes every day to work together to preserve access is difficult. It's doable sometimes in some cases, but it's really difficult.

And it's been really difficult with this White House in part because of these pro Trump outlets that are not going to go along with it, you know, And so you have to wonder. You have to wonder, is for just for fun? Even though there's nothing fun about this. If every major American news brand didn't show up at the White House tomorrow, decided to keep its reporters at the bureau, go out and find other stories elsewhere. Trump would still have cameras on him at all times. He would still have adoring fans, posy as reporters asking questions. Would he get tired of that? Maybe?

And it's been really difficult with this White House in part because of these pro Trump outlets that are not going to go along with it, you know, And so you have to wonder. You have to wonder, is for just for fun? Even though there's nothing fun about this. If every major American news brand didn't show up at the White House tomorrow, decided to keep its reporters at the bureau, go out and find other stories elsewhere. Trump would still have cameras on him at all times. He would still have adoring fans, posy as reporters asking questions. Would he get tired of that? Maybe?

Does he like the back and forth with real journalists, Yes he does. He actually like to spar with you know, the New York Times place types places, Yes he does. But the point is, a a blackout of Trump wouldn't happen. It's not possible. It just it wouldn't happen. All of these right wing outlets would fill in the voids. And that's one of the reasons why I think we haven't seen collective action on the part of the press corps.

Does he like the back and forth with real journalists, Yes he does. He actually like to spar with you know, the New York Times place types places, Yes he does. But the point is, a a blackout of Trump wouldn't happen. It's not possible. It just it wouldn't happen. All of these right wing outlets would fill in the voids. And that's one of the reasons why I think we haven't seen collective action on the part of the press corps.

So, Brian Stelter, let me just finally ask you, and I'm going to quote. I'm going to read a quote that I'm sure you've heard a billion times. But Thomas Jefferson famously wrote a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government. If he had to choose between the two, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. Do you have faith that, you know, with all these pressure points on the media right now, that in four years from now, we're going to have a vibrant and strong press in this country that is able to do what they need to do to cover any administration and what's happening.

So, Brian Stelter, let me just finally ask you, and I'm going to quote. I'm going to read a quote that I'm sure you've heard a billion times. But Thomas Jefferson famously wrote a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government. If he had to choose between the two, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. Do you have faith that, you know, with all these pressure points on the media right now, that in four years from now, we're going to have a vibrant and strong press in this country that is able to do what they need to do to cover any administration and what's happening.

I think for Americans who want a vibrant, healthy press, there will be.

I think for Americans who want a vibrant, healthy press, there will be.

My fear is that it'll.

My fear is that it'll.

Increasingly be behind subscription walls or membership walls, or membership clubs or affinity groups, where you know, only people who are seeking it out will end up seeing it and everybody else will see the slop that comes from generative AI and comes from click baity ad websites and hyperpartisan brands and disinformation artists. You know, there's this danger of two tiered media system where people who really want accurate, reliable, high claud information can get it, and everybody else just gets entertained by stuff that looks like news but isn't. And some of the pressure points we've described are hastening that and encouraging that to happen. But I do think that the American news media is stronger than any demagogue. I started saying that in twenty seventeen when Trump started calling the press the enemy of the people, and I still believe it's true because the press in this country is decentralized. Even though local news has been hollowed out, there are still so many news brands out there, and it's easier than ever to start.

Increasingly be behind subscription walls or membership walls, or membership clubs or affinity groups, where you know, only people who are seeking it out will end up seeing it and everybody else will see the slop that comes from generative AI and comes from click baity ad websites and hyperpartisan brands and disinformation artists. You know, there's this danger of two tiered media system where people who really want accurate, reliable, high claud information can get it, and everybody else just gets entertained by stuff that looks like news but isn't. And some of the pressure points we've described are hastening that and encouraging that to happen. But I do think that the American news media is stronger than any demagogue. I started saying that in twenty seventeen when Trump started calling the press the enemy of the people, and I still believe it's true because the press in this country is decentralized. Even though local news has been hollowed out, there are still so many news brands out there, and it's easier than ever to start.

A new one. You know.

A new one. You know.

Wherever there's a will, wherever there's a way, you know, people will be able to create and find news sources, and some can get big enough to stand up to a demagogue.

Wherever there's a will, wherever there's a way, you know, people will be able to create and find news sources, and some can get big enough to stand up to a demagogue.

I think that that's real.

I think that that's real.

But the dangers are also very real, and I'm glad to have a chance to talk about them, because when you add it all up, it is a very real pressure campaign on many different fronts, and we don't know how the story ends with regards to, you know, the health of the American free press. My gut says yes, in four years, there's going to be new brands. They're gonna be startups that are launched next month that are going to matter more than ever. There's going to be a flourishing of subscriber based media outlets.

But the dangers are also very real, and I'm glad to have a chance to talk about them, because when you add it all up, it is a very real pressure campaign on many different fronts, and we don't know how the story ends with regards to, you know, the health of the American free press. My gut says yes, in four years, there's going to be new brands. They're gonna be startups that are launched next month that are going to matter more than ever. There's going to be a flourishing of subscriber based media outlets.

You know.

You know.

Substack is showing one way forward, but so are brands like The New York Times, you know, and CNN and lots of other outlets are trying to follow that path, trying to create new vibrant business models for news. So I'm optimistic on some fronts about that, but I worry about who gets left behind in that scenario. And I really worry about a group of hyperpartisan, really loyal Trump voters who have given up on the news altogether. Who And that's not all voters, and that's not all. That's not all Trump voters. There are many many Trump voters who who who want to know what is going on with the government and want Trump held accountable. But there's this base audience, this magabas, the kind of the folks who see who go to Trump rallies, and they've given up on news altogether. And I do wonder what consequences that's going to have for the country for years and beyond.

Substack is showing one way forward, but so are brands like The New York Times, you know, and CNN and lots of other outlets are trying to follow that path, trying to create new vibrant business models for news. So I'm optimistic on some fronts about that, but I worry about who gets left behind in that scenario. And I really worry about a group of hyperpartisan, really loyal Trump voters who have given up on the news altogether. Who And that's not all voters, and that's not all. That's not all Trump voters. There are many many Trump voters who who who want to know what is going on with the government and want Trump held accountable. But there's this base audience, this magabas, the kind of the folks who see who go to Trump rallies, and they've given up on news altogether. And I do wonder what consequences that's going to have for the country for years and beyond.

That is CNN chief media analyst Brian Stelter. His newsletter is called Reliable Sources. Brian, thank you so much for joining us, great talking with you. Thank you, and thanks to you for listening to One Thing Trump did. It was produced by Harrison Patino. Our next middle episode will be in your podcast feed later this week, where we'll be asking you how you feel about the first one hundred days of Trump's presidency. If you like this podcast, rate it Wherever you get your podcast, keep media alive, Tell your friends, make sure you sign up for automatic downloads. Our theme music was composed by Noah Haidu. I'm Jeremy Hobson. Talk to you soon,

That is CNN chief media analyst Brian Stelter. His newsletter is called Reliable Sources. Brian, thank you so much for joining us, great talking with you. Thank you, and thanks to you for listening to One Thing Trump did. It was produced by Harrison Patino. Our next middle episode will be in your podcast feed later this week, where we'll be asking you how you feel about the first one hundred days of Trump's presidency. If you like this podcast, rate it Wherever you get your podcast, keep media alive, Tell your friends, make sure you sign up for automatic downloads. Our theme music was composed by Noah Haidu. I'm Jeremy Hobson. Talk to you soon,