Welcome to the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson along with our house DJ Tolliver and Tolliver have you been watching The White Lotus?

Welcome to the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson along with our house DJ Tolliver and Tolliver have you been watching The White Lotus?

I think we both know. I've been watching The White Lotus and I'm waiting for us to do a show on it.

I think we both know. I've been watching The White Lotus and I'm waiting for us to do a show on it.

Well, I don't think that's gonna happen, But for people who have not been watching it. Parker Posey's character has had some moments that have gone viral online, including this one that sets us up perfectly for today's show.

Well, I don't think that's gonna happen, But for people who have not been watching it. Parker Posey's character has had some moments that have gone viral online, including this one that sets us up perfectly for today's show.

Are when if you take him on the recipams, No, ma'am, No, I just have my prescription field and I could tell someone are missing.

Are when if you take him on the recipams, No, ma'am, No, I just have my prescription field and I could tell someone are missing.

You don't have enough lurazapam to get through one week at a wellness ball.

You don't have enough lurazapam to get through one week at a wellness ball.

Okay.

Okay.

So, Lurazapam is an anti anxiety medication. Along with brand names like Xanax and Volume. It's part of a class of drugs called benzo diazepines or benzo's for short, and those are on Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Junior's list of drugs he thinks Americans are taking too many of.

So, Lurazapam is an anti anxiety medication. Along with brand names like Xanax and Volume. It's part of a class of drugs called benzo diazepines or benzo's for short, and those are on Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Junior's list of drugs he thinks Americans are taking too many of.

Percent of American youth are now on adderall or some other ADHD medication. Even higher percentages or on SSRIs and benzos. We are not just over medicating our children, We're over medicating our entiled population.

Percent of American youth are now on adderall or some other ADHD medication. Even higher percentages or on SSRIs and benzos. We are not just over medicating our children, We're over medicating our entiled population.

So that's what we're going to be asking you about this hour. Do you think America is over medicated? And just to be clear, we are not talking about vaccines here. We're talking about prescription drugs for conditions including anxiety, depression, weight loss, and ADHD. And we're going to get to that in a moment in your calls. But first, last week on the show, we talked about what the future of American energy should look like. We got a lot of calls, a lot of nuance from our listeners. Here are some of the voicemails that came in after the show.

So that's what we're going to be asking you about this hour. Do you think America is over medicated? And just to be clear, we are not talking about vaccines here. We're talking about prescription drugs for conditions including anxiety, depression, weight loss, and ADHD. And we're going to get to that in a moment in your calls. But first, last week on the show, we talked about what the future of American energy should look like. We got a lot of calls, a lot of nuance from our listeners. Here are some of the voicemails that came in after the show.

Hey, my name is Bill from Chicago. I'm solidly in the middle. I voted for Democrats and Republicans if we're going to be real and not disingenuous. Suggesting that the middle so embraces wind and solar given the actual underlying statistics is ridiculous.

Hey, my name is Bill from Chicago. I'm solidly in the middle. I voted for Democrats and Republicans if we're going to be real and not disingenuous. Suggesting that the middle so embraces wind and solar given the actual underlying statistics is ridiculous.

This is Tina Brazil calling from Slide to Colorado. I consider myself a pretty progressive person in support of clean energy, but there's not really a switch that we can turn on to go all renewable. It's going to happen over time, and it's better to have that diversity until we can go completely clean.

This is Tina Brazil calling from Slide to Colorado. I consider myself a pretty progressive person in support of clean energy, but there's not really a switch that we can turn on to go all renewable. It's going to happen over time, and it's better to have that diversity until we can go completely clean.

Douglas Sharnberg calling for muro Linguid Texas. The bottom line is Americans need to stop being spoon fed their energy like babies. Where you plug in, you get carte blanche as much electricity as you could possibly use. There's absolutely no incentive for conservation with this model.

Douglas Sharnberg calling for muro Linguid Texas. The bottom line is Americans need to stop being spoon fed their energy like babies. Where you plug in, you get carte blanche as much electricity as you could possibly use. There's absolutely no incentive for conservation with this model.

Well, thanks to everyone who called in. You can hear that entire episode on our podcast in partnership with iHeart Podcasts, on the iHeart app or wherever you listen to podcasts. So now to our topic this hour is America over medicated. Tolliver the phone number please.

Well, thanks to everyone who called in. You can hear that entire episode on our podcast in partnership with iHeart Podcasts, on the iHeart app or wherever you listen to podcasts. So now to our topic this hour is America over medicated. Tolliver the phone number please.

Yeah, it's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four four six four three three. You can also write to us at Listen to the Middle dot com and you can also comment on our live stream on YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitch.

Yeah, it's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four four six four three three. You can also write to us at Listen to the Middle dot com and you can also comment on our live stream on YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitch.

Joining us on the panel this hour, KFF Health News Chief Washington correspondent Julie Robner, Julie, great to have you on the Middle.

Joining us on the panel this hour, KFF Health News Chief Washington correspondent Julie Robner, Julie, great to have you on the Middle.

Great to be here.

Great to be here.

Jeremy and Daniel Grossman joins US as well. He's an emergency medicine physician at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, and has held a number of business leadership roles in the healthcare industry. Daniel, welcome to you.

Jeremy and Daniel Grossman joins US as well. He's an emergency medicine physician at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, and has held a number of business leadership roles in the healthcare industry. Daniel, welcome to you.

Thanks great to be here.

Thanks great to be here.

So before we get to the phones, Julie, I want to be clear, as I said, we are talking about prescription drugs and not vaccines. RFK Junior, the Health Secretary, has been skeptical of both.

So before we get to the phones, Julie, I want to be clear, as I said, we are talking about prescription drugs and not vaccines. RFK Junior, the Health Secretary, has been skeptical of both.

But on the.

But on the.

Issue of prescription drugs, there is a Penn State study that found in the mid nineties, most Americans were on one prescription drug. Now people taking prescription meds are just as likely to be on five or more. How do you explain.

Issue of prescription drugs, there is a Penn State study that found in the mid nineties, most Americans were on one prescription drug. Now people taking prescription meds are just as likely to be on five or more. How do you explain.

That there are more drugs for more things. I mean, that's not necessarily a bad There are a lot of things that we can control now using prescription drugs that we couldn't in the nineties, and some of them are just or we could but now we have better drugs. You know, people have high blood pressure and diabetes and all the chronic diseases that RFK Junior says he is so concerned about. So I think that's kind of not a fair way to decide whether Americans are over medicated by the fact that they're simply taking more prescription drugs.

That there are more drugs for more things. I mean, that's not necessarily a bad There are a lot of things that we can control now using prescription drugs that we couldn't in the nineties, and some of them are just or we could but now we have better drugs. You know, people have high blood pressure and diabetes and all the chronic diseases that RFK Junior says he is so concerned about. So I think that's kind of not a fair way to decide whether Americans are over medicated by the fact that they're simply taking more prescription drugs.

Daniel, what do you think? And I'll throw in another stat The Congressional Budget off has found that nationwide spending on prescription drugs jump tenfold from nineteen eighty to twenty eighteen. That's adjusted for inflation. What is your experience as a doctor. Are people taking more medications now? And if so, why?

Daniel, what do you think? And I'll throw in another stat The Congressional Budget off has found that nationwide spending on prescription drugs jump tenfold from nineteen eighty to twenty eighteen. That's adjusted for inflation. What is your experience as a doctor. Are people taking more medications now? And if so, why?

Yeah?

Yeah?

I think you have to go back a level and say, are there more diseases do people have?

I think you have to go back a level and say, are there more diseases do people have?

You know?

You know?

Is the prevalence of disease greater?

Is the prevalence of disease greater?

Yes?

Yes?

Is the incidents? Are we seeing more and more new types of diseases? Yes, because we can diagnose things, and honestly, the rate of discovery of new drugs has accelerated greatly, and so all those things combined tell us that there are going to be more people taking more medications.

Is the incidents? Are we seeing more and more new types of diseases? Yes, because we can diagnose things, and honestly, the rate of discovery of new drugs has accelerated greatly, and so all those things combined tell us that there are going to be more people taking more medications.

You're saying that we can diagnose more diseases and that's why it's not that we're becoming sicker.

You're saying that we can diagnose more diseases and that's why it's not that we're becoming sicker.

That's true. Well, I would say we are becoming sicker and we can diagnose diseases that we couldn't diagnose before. They can both be true.

That's true. Well, I would say we are becoming sicker and we can diagnose diseases that we couldn't diagnose before. They can both be true.

Do you feel pressure from patients or from pharmaceutical companies for that matter, to prescribe medications.

Do you feel pressure from patients or from pharmaceutical companies for that matter, to prescribe medications.

Definitely from patients. I'm held outside of sort of influence of pharmaceutical companies in our practice environment. But patients when they come to our emergency department or sea physicians, they expect something to be done, and so you have to figure out what that something is going to be, and that can be a difficult conversation with patients.

Definitely from patients. I'm held outside of sort of influence of pharmaceutical companies in our practice environment. But patients when they come to our emergency department or sea physicians, they expect something to be done, and so you have to figure out what that something is going to be, and that can be a difficult conversation with patients.

It's hard to say no to the patients.

It's hard to say no to the patients.

It's hard to say no. It's hard to meet expectations. You have to suss out what the expectations are, and many of them come with a goal that they would like met and that may be a medication prescription.

It's hard to say no. It's hard to meet expectations. You have to suss out what the expectations are, and many of them come with a goal that they would like met and that may be a medication prescription.

Julie Robinner, what would the what could the Trump administration do if they wanted to get people to be taking less prescription medications? What kind of tools do they have?

Julie Robinner, what would the what could the Trump administration do if they wanted to get people to be taking less prescription medications? What kind of tools do they have?

Well, of course, again the biggest tool is obviously the bully pull pit, and we do you know know that there is a lot people do listen to federal health officials. They may not trust them as much as they used to before the pandemic, but they do listen to them. We have a brand new head of the FDA, Marty McCarey, who with the Senate just confirmed this week a fairly prominent surgeon from John Hopkins, who's written several books and is good on TV, as as most of the people in the Trump administration are. He's been he's been trying to walk kind of a fine line between what our f kjunior wants but you know, and what he believes. And he hasn't really said, but he could, obviously, you know, provide a lot of sway if he wanted to. We'll see whether he does or not.

Well, of course, again the biggest tool is obviously the bully pull pit, and we do you know know that there is a lot people do listen to federal health officials. They may not trust them as much as they used to before the pandemic, but they do listen to them. We have a brand new head of the FDA, Marty McCarey, who with the Senate just confirmed this week a fairly prominent surgeon from John Hopkins, who's written several books and is good on TV, as as most of the people in the Trump administration are. He's been he's been trying to walk kind of a fine line between what our f kjunior wants but you know, and what he believes. And he hasn't really said, but he could, obviously, you know, provide a lot of sway if he wanted to. We'll see whether he does or not.

The phone lines are lighting up, so let's get to a caller. Magdalena is calling from Grand Rapids, Michigan. Magdalena, what do you think is America over medicated?

The phone lines are lighting up, so let's get to a caller. Magdalena is calling from Grand Rapids, Michigan. Magdalena, what do you think is America over medicated?

I absolutely don't think so. I think that we as Americans are lucky enough to have access to these kinds of medications that really, for me personally, have enabled me to have a better quality of life. I have been diagnosed with dystymaic disorder, which is basically a chronic depression where I have always had a low level of depression because my brain just doesn't produce enough serotonin or dopamine. And now at fifty years old. I've learned the symptoms that I am familiar with the symptoms that I experienced because of my disorder, and if I didn't have medication access to the medications that I have access to, I don't think that I would have been as successful in my life and been able to be as productive in my life because I didn't have access to them.

I absolutely don't think so. I think that we as Americans are lucky enough to have access to these kinds of medications that really, for me personally, have enabled me to have a better quality of life. I have been diagnosed with dystymaic disorder, which is basically a chronic depression where I have always had a low level of depression because my brain just doesn't produce enough serotonin or dopamine. And now at fifty years old. I've learned the symptoms that I am familiar with the symptoms that I experienced because of my disorder, and if I didn't have medication access to the medications that I have access to, I don't think that I would have been as successful in my life and been able to be as productive in my life because I didn't have access to them.

Do you worry, Magdalena that some of the rhetoric coming out of the Trump administration that you may not have access to that, or you just think that they're sort of talking about a big picture thing but it won't have an effect on you.

Do you worry, Magdalena that some of the rhetoric coming out of the Trump administration that you may not have access to that, or you just think that they're sort of talking about a big picture thing but it won't have an effect on you.

I'm worried that it's that it's rhetoric and that people people already have a hard time understanding how depressed medications work, whether they're medications for depression or anti psychotic medications or anti anxiety medications. I'm personally as social worker, so I've seen this throughout my career, and I think that this will just continue to add to the confusion to people, and you know, make it difficult for people to understand how medications work, and you know that you have to take them a certain way and one thing isn't going to work for everybody. So when I hear you know, you know this, this rhetoric that we're over medicated, it's only because we're in the richest country in the world and we have access to them.

I'm worried that it's that it's rhetoric and that people people already have a hard time understanding how depressed medications work, whether they're medications for depression or anti psychotic medications or anti anxiety medications. I'm personally as social worker, so I've seen this throughout my career, and I think that this will just continue to add to the confusion to people, and you know, make it difficult for people to understand how medications work, and you know that you have to take them a certain way and one thing isn't going to work for everybody. So when I hear you know, you know this, this rhetoric that we're over medicated, it's only because we're in the richest country in the world and we have access to them.

Yeah, Magdalena, thank you, thank you so much for that. Called Daniel Grossman, what do you think of that? And I wonder also if people are taking off medications they decide not to take the medications because of what's being talked about in Washington, could it lead to a mental health crisis in this country.

Yeah, Magdalena, thank you, thank you so much for that. Called Daniel Grossman, what do you think of that? And I wonder also if people are taking off medications they decide not to take the medications because of what's being talked about in Washington, could it lead to a mental health crisis in this country.

Well, well, let's start with we already have a mental health crisis in this country. We have a significant challenge with mental health. There are not enough mental health providers, there are deserts where people don't have access to it. What Magdalena described is is essentially what a lot of people have discovered, which is their bodies might not quite work correctly, and one person's not correctly is different than another person's not correctly. And our ability to provide medications and increasingly to use science to figure out the nuances of what will work for one person versus another person is pretty remarkable. So what she's describing, we have the ability in this country to offer and to help as she said, lead a more productive life.

Well, well, let's start with we already have a mental health crisis in this country. We have a significant challenge with mental health. There are not enough mental health providers, there are deserts where people don't have access to it. What Magdalena described is is essentially what a lot of people have discovered, which is their bodies might not quite work correctly, and one person's not correctly is different than another person's not correctly. And our ability to provide medications and increasingly to use science to figure out the nuances of what will work for one person versus another person is pretty remarkable. So what she's describing, we have the ability in this country to offer and to help as she said, lead a more productive life.

Speaking of Julia Robner, there's news just today about ten thousand job cuts at the Department of Health and Human Services. Would that affect the Department's ability to do anything about over medication if they believe that that's a priority.

Speaking of Julia Robner, there's news just today about ten thousand job cuts at the Department of Health and Human Services. Would that affect the Department's ability to do anything about over medication if they believe that that's a priority.

Well, this is an enormous restructuring basically of the entire Department of Health and Human Services and includes cuts of thirty five hundred people to the FDA. The fact cheat that the Department distributed says that it won't affect the people who are actually reviewing drugs. Those are mostly not paid for with federal funds anyway. They're paid for with user fees that are provided by the drug companies themselves. But you know, it's hard to know exactly how this worry or you know, how they would try to operationalize getting people off of too many drugs, you.

Well, this is an enormous restructuring basically of the entire Department of Health and Human Services and includes cuts of thirty five hundred people to the FDA. The fact cheat that the Department distributed says that it won't affect the people who are actually reviewing drugs. Those are mostly not paid for with federal funds anyway. They're paid for with user fees that are provided by the drug companies themselves. But you know, it's hard to know exactly how this worry or you know, how they would try to operationalize getting people off of too many drugs, you.

Know, Tolliver, we can't have this discussion without mentioning the tens of billions of dollars that pharmaceutical companies and retailers have had to pay to settle lawsuits related to prescription opioids like oxy contin. Yeah.

Know, Tolliver, we can't have this discussion without mentioning the tens of billions of dollars that pharmaceutical companies and retailers have had to pay to settle lawsuits related to prescription opioids like oxy contin. Yeah.

Actually, just this year, a bipartisan coalition of states re state seven point four billion dollars settlement settlement with oxyconton maker Purdue Pharma and the Sackler family for their role in the opioid epidemic. Here's one of the Attorneys General involved in the settlement, New York's Letitia James.

Actually, just this year, a bipartisan coalition of states re state seven point four billion dollars settlement settlement with oxyconton maker Purdue Pharma and the Sackler family for their role in the opioid epidemic. Here's one of the Attorneys General involved in the settlement, New York's Letitia James.

The Sackler family, and they're a company, Purdue, who helped spark the opioid crisis decades ago.

The Sackler family, and they're a company, Purdue, who helped spark the opioid crisis decades ago.

Half for years avoided accountability for the immense.

Half for years avoided accountability for the immense.

Cause that they have caused. All of the victims, all of the loved ones who have died, all of those who are in.

Cause that they have caused. All of the victims, all of the loved ones who have died, all of those who are in.

The throes of addiction right now.

The throes of addiction right now.

But that ends today.

But that ends today.

This latest settlement, by the way, replaces one that the Supreme Court rejected last year. And we'll be right back with more of the Middle. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. If you're just tuning in the Middle as a national call in show, we're focused on elevating voices from the middle geographically, politically and philosophically, or maybe you just want to meet in the middle. This hour, we're asking you, is America over medicated? Tolliver? What is the number to call in?

This latest settlement, by the way, replaces one that the Supreme Court rejected last year. And we'll be right back with more of the Middle. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. If you're just tuning in the Middle as a national call in show, we're focused on elevating voices from the middle geographically, politically and philosophically, or maybe you just want to meet in the middle. This hour, we're asking you, is America over medicated? Tolliver? What is the number to call in?

It's eight four four four Middle that's eight four four four six four three three five three. You can also write to us a listen to the middle dot com or on social media.

It's eight four four four Middle that's eight four four four six four three three five three. You can also write to us a listen to the middle dot com or on social media.

I'm joined by Daniel Grossmann, emergency medicine physician at the Mayo Clinic, and KFF Health News Chief Washington correspondent Julie Robner. And before we go back to the phones, Julie, we heard a moment ago about the settlements against big Pharma. How much pushback are you seeing or would you expect from the pharmaceutical companies when it comes to reducing the amount of prescription drugs that Americans are on.

I'm joined by Daniel Grossmann, emergency medicine physician at the Mayo Clinic, and KFF Health News Chief Washington correspondent Julie Robner. And before we go back to the phones, Julie, we heard a moment ago about the settlements against big Pharma. How much pushback are you seeing or would you expect from the pharmaceutical companies when it comes to reducing the amount of prescription drugs that Americans are on.

Well, obviously pharma has a you know, financial interest in Americans getting and continuing to take prescription drugs. The opioid epidemic was kind of separate and from for many of them. But there, I mean, there is a problem with drug companies being incentivized to make not necessarily the drugs that people most need, but the drugs that they're going to make the most money from. I mean, we have a huge shortage now of antibiotics, of new antibiotics coming into the pipeline because people don't have to take antibiotics for the rest of their lives. The way they take you know, statins for cholesterol or drugs for blood pressure. So there's it's much It does better if you're a drug company to make something that people are going to take forever.

Well, obviously pharma has a you know, financial interest in Americans getting and continuing to take prescription drugs. The opioid epidemic was kind of separate and from for many of them. But there, I mean, there is a problem with drug companies being incentivized to make not necessarily the drugs that people most need, but the drugs that they're going to make the most money from. I mean, we have a huge shortage now of antibiotics, of new antibiotics coming into the pipeline because people don't have to take antibiotics for the rest of their lives. The way they take you know, statins for cholesterol or drugs for blood pressure. So there's it's much It does better if you're a drug company to make something that people are going to take forever.

It's like a wedding planner. You don't really go back for don't go back for seconds that they don't need to repeat business.

It's like a wedding planner. You don't really go back for don't go back for seconds that they don't need to repeat business.

Hopefully on an antibiotic, you hope not. But I mean we also, I mean you could argue that we have an under that we're under drugged in some ways because people often can't afford drugs that they need so they're there. You know, it does cut both ways.

Hopefully on an antibiotic, you hope not. But I mean we also, I mean you could argue that we have an under that we're under drugged in some ways because people often can't afford drugs that they need so they're there. You know, it does cut both ways.

Daniel. How do you balance the incredible advances that we've made in medicine that you talked about, uh, that allow us to treat so many things with prescription drugs with not wanting to overprescribe and get people addicted as they did during the opioid crisis.

Daniel. How do you balance the incredible advances that we've made in medicine that you talked about, uh, that allow us to treat so many things with prescription drugs with not wanting to overprescribe and get people addicted as they did during the opioid crisis.

The idea that a prescription from an emergency department or from a single physician is going to be addictive has been debunked. But the challenge is that there's a there's a thought from the general population that if you take a medication, you will get addicted.

The idea that a prescription from an emergency department or from a single physician is going to be addictive has been debunked. But the challenge is that there's a there's a thought from the general population that if you take a medication, you will get addicted.

To it.

To it.

So so it actually has removed some tools because patients are reluctant to use the medications that we have available because they are afraid because you know, they have become afraid over time of becoming addicted. So, you know, our advancements, our advancements are really in these some of the larger disease populations that don't have risk for addiction or new discoveries like Alzheimer's disease medications are coming out. You know, there's not a risk of addiction there. We have a new tool to help people that we didn't have before. We need to find ways to take advantage of those as opposed to saying that we are over medicated.

So so it actually has removed some tools because patients are reluctant to use the medications that we have available because they are afraid because you know, they have become afraid over time of becoming addicted. So, you know, our advancements, our advancements are really in these some of the larger disease populations that don't have risk for addiction or new discoveries like Alzheimer's disease medications are coming out. You know, there's not a risk of addiction there. We have a new tool to help people that we didn't have before. We need to find ways to take advantage of those as opposed to saying that we are over medicated.

Let's go to Connor, who's in Chapel Hill, North Carolina.

Let's go to Connor, who's in Chapel Hill, North Carolina.

Hi.

Hi.

Connor, welcome to the middle.

Connor, welcome to the middle.

Go ahead, Hi, it's great to be on.

Go ahead, Hi, it's great to be on.

So.

So.

I've been taking basically a ad medication for about twenty years. They diagnosed with ADHD when I was about nine. I've had to be off of it for periods just due to insurance and it has a negative all my life when I'm not on the prescription and is really deeply worried by the discourse on RFK Junior kind of what that will do for me being a student and being a professional.

I've been taking basically a ad medication for about twenty years. They diagnosed with ADHD when I was about nine. I've had to be off of it for periods just due to insurance and it has a negative all my life when I'm not on the prescription and is really deeply worried by the discourse on RFK Junior kind of what that will do for me being a student and being a professional.

So that's kind of nice. Yeah, idea.

So that's kind of nice. Yeah, idea.

Do you think that RFK Junior will make it impossible for you to get your ADHD medication? Or why does the rhetoric worry you specifically?

Do you think that RFK Junior will make it impossible for you to get your ADHD medication? Or why does the rhetoric worry you specifically?

I have heard just the way that he talks about ADHD medications and SSRIs. I don't know exactly what I am in public house side. I don't really know exactly what will happen, but as we've seen with this administration, things can kind of change, you know, in a second. So I just kind of worried about the discourse around that. Not exactly sure how it would happen, but just kind of, you know, a little worried.

I have heard just the way that he talks about ADHD medications and SSRIs. I don't know exactly what I am in public house side. I don't really know exactly what will happen, but as we've seen with this administration, things can kind of change, you know, in a second. So I just kind of worried about the discourse around that. Not exactly sure how it would happen, but just kind of, you know, a little worried.

Yeah, Connor, thank you for that call. Let me go to another. Brent is calling from Jackson, Wyoming. Hi, Brent, welcome to the middle. Go ahead with your thoughts.

Yeah, Connor, thank you for that call. Let me go to another. Brent is calling from Jackson, Wyoming. Hi, Brent, welcome to the middle. Go ahead with your thoughts.

Hi, thank you for having me. I'm a senior aviation medical examiner, and I think that people forget that when children are put on ADHD medication, especially inappropriately, or other psychotropic medicines, whether they're antidepressants or or tranquilizers, and they really don't need them, but that can affect their careers and they can't become a pilot. Many times, they can't get into the military academies. And with the electronic medical record, this stuff stays with somebody their entire life, so it's hard to undo a misdiagnosis or inappropriately treated child. So I think that's an important thing to remember.

Hi, thank you for having me. I'm a senior aviation medical examiner, and I think that people forget that when children are put on ADHD medication, especially inappropriately, or other psychotropic medicines, whether they're antidepressants or or tranquilizers, and they really don't need them, but that can affect their careers and they can't become a pilot. Many times, they can't get into the military academies. And with the electronic medical record, this stuff stays with somebody their entire life, so it's hard to undo a misdiagnosis or inappropriately treated child. So I think that's an important thing to remember.

So what do you say to our previous caller, Connor, who said, you know that when he has to go off of his ADHD medication, it has a really negative impact on his life.

So what do you say to our previous caller, Connor, who said, you know that when he has to go off of his ADHD medication, it has a really negative impact on his life.

Well, I think people who are properly diagnosed, they do definitely need medications like the ADHD medications, but those people go through an extensive evaluation. It's not thirty men in appointment, but a primary care doctor or primary care it's a full day of examination, usually with a neuropsychologist are a psychiatrist to really make a definitive diagnosis, you can't just these medicines get thrown around so much that there are a lot of people on these medications that really don't need to be on them and never should have been on them.

Well, I think people who are properly diagnosed, they do definitely need medications like the ADHD medications, but those people go through an extensive evaluation. It's not thirty men in appointment, but a primary care doctor or primary care it's a full day of examination, usually with a neuropsychologist are a psychiatrist to really make a definitive diagnosis, you can't just these medicines get thrown around so much that there are a lot of people on these medications that really don't need to be on them and never should have been on them.

Brent, thank you for that call. Julie Robner, two very different views there on that issue just of ADHD medications.

Brent, thank you for that call. Julie Robner, two very different views there on that issue just of ADHD medications.

Yeah, absolutely, you know, and I think the same is true. Most medications can be used properly and can be used improperly. I mean, people are not out there, I don't think abusing their blood pressure drugs for the most part. You know, there's a lot of drugs that are not really subject to abuse, and that's a whole different discussion, but of the ones that can be or that somebody can make money from basically, you know, pressing people to take although generally doctors don't make money when people take prescriptions, but there are a lot of people who you know, we'll we'll try to sort of keep keep patients coming back by giving them drugs. And obviously, you know, I think the opioids were a little bit of a one off. But I think one of the problems, one of the big problems that we had with the opioids is that the drug company lied about how addictive they were, and I think that legitimately now has people kind of freaked out about drugs, particularly about pain killers.

Yeah, absolutely, you know, and I think the same is true. Most medications can be used properly and can be used improperly. I mean, people are not out there, I don't think abusing their blood pressure drugs for the most part. You know, there's a lot of drugs that are not really subject to abuse, and that's a whole different discussion, but of the ones that can be or that somebody can make money from basically, you know, pressing people to take although generally doctors don't make money when people take prescriptions, but there are a lot of people who you know, we'll we'll try to sort of keep keep patients coming back by giving them drugs. And obviously, you know, I think the opioids were a little bit of a one off. But I think one of the problems, one of the big problems that we had with the opioids is that the drug company lied about how addictive they were, and I think that legitimately now has people kind of freaked out about drugs, particularly about pain killers.

Yeah, yeah, we'll have a personal one if that's okay. So I saw an ad today for are you familiar with hers dot com? Or hymns dot com. These apps basically where you can order your you know, your prescriptions after just like a virtual appointment or someone just text. Do you what do you think about this? Are they harmful or not? What do you think?

Yeah, yeah, we'll have a personal one if that's okay. So I saw an ad today for are you familiar with hers dot com? Or hymns dot com. These apps basically where you can order your you know, your prescriptions after just like a virtual appointment or someone just text. Do you what do you think about this? Are they harmful or not? What do you think?

I think they are lightly regulated, let's put it that way. I think I think I would like to know what the doctor thinks about that, Daniel.

I think they are lightly regulated, let's put it that way. I think I think I would like to know what the doctor thinks about that, Daniel.

For while they are lightly regulated and they they have yeah, you know, these are these are companies that have often venture backed financial models and need to show growth, and they've pivoted to sort of meet some of the emerging areas where there are prescription opportunities. They have also expanded access to people who might not have access for things because of the virtual models. Because of the decentralization, you can actually get more patients into the system and that's a really good thing. So I would look at it that way.

For while they are lightly regulated and they they have yeah, you know, these are these are companies that have often venture backed financial models and need to show growth, and they've pivoted to sort of meet some of the emerging areas where there are prescription opportunities. They have also expanded access to people who might not have access for things because of the virtual models. Because of the decentralization, you can actually get more patients into the system and that's a really good thing. So I would look at it that way.

Matthew is calling from mine, not North Dakota. Matthew, welcome to the middle. Do you think America is over medicated?

Matthew is calling from mine, not North Dakota. Matthew, welcome to the middle. Do you think America is over medicated?

All right, guys, I just want to kind of synthesize what your last two college said. I've been on these medications benzos and amphetamines for about twenty years and I think there's a whole generation of us now, people my age, who were put on them early when they were in the school by their parents or psychologists or whatever. We grow up taking them and now we're dependent on them, and I'm worried that this will kind of demonize those medications. For those of us who have this point can't function without them, and we just need them for maintenance. I recently came to North Dakota from a different state and to get a prescription up here, they asked me to redo add testing. But the fact is, whether I actually have it or not, now it's irrelevant. I need the medication of functioning just because some of us have been on it so long, whether we choose that or not.

All right, guys, I just want to kind of synthesize what your last two college said. I've been on these medications benzos and amphetamines for about twenty years and I think there's a whole generation of us now, people my age, who were put on them early when they were in the school by their parents or psychologists or whatever. We grow up taking them and now we're dependent on them, and I'm worried that this will kind of demonize those medications. For those of us who have this point can't function without them, and we just need them for maintenance. I recently came to North Dakota from a different state and to get a prescription up here, they asked me to redo add testing. But the fact is, whether I actually have it or not, now it's irrelevant. I need the medication of functioning just because some of us have been on it so long, whether we choose that or not.

Do you feel like you wish you had not been put it on it in the first place, or do you think about that.

Do you feel like you wish you had not been put it on it in the first place, or do you think about that.

I consistently think it was the worst thing that ever happened to me.

I consistently think it was the worst thing that ever happened to me.

Wow, what do you think your life would be like if you had not been Obviously a doctor at some point decided that that was a good idea.

Wow, what do you think your life would be like if you had not been Obviously a doctor at some point decided that that was a good idea.

Sure, And I mean I can't speculate, but I do know it's not as simple as well, why don't you just stop taking it after you've been on them for thirty years. Just because of the nature of the drugs life, it really is necessary to function after a certain point. And that's hard to articulate in a way to newer medical professionals because they don't understand the history. You know what it was like twenty years ago when doctors first started giving riddle into everybody.

Sure, And I mean I can't speculate, but I do know it's not as simple as well, why don't you just stop taking it after you've been on them for thirty years. Just because of the nature of the drugs life, it really is necessary to function after a certain point. And that's hard to articulate in a way to newer medical professionals because they don't understand the history. You know what it was like twenty years ago when doctors first started giving riddle into everybody.

Matthew, thank you for that call. Daniel Grossman, your thoughts on that very interesting.

Matthew, thank you for that call. Daniel Grossman, your thoughts on that very interesting.

Yeah, that's a you know, very compelling personal story. I would have to agree with his perspective on what's been happening for many, many years. Our prior caller who talked about the impact on getting jobs. You know, the larger issue there might actually be the stigma that's attached to these medications and that it impacts employment in some areas and some it might, but we could destigmatize these The other thing to keep in mind is that the robustness of the diagnostic process that leads to people being taking anti depressants or on ADHD medications, the robustness of that process has increased dramatically. Our ability to accurately need to diagnose patients is significantly better today than it was before. And so this idea that that caller said that people are inappropriately put on them, I don't think that's the vast majority of patients now, and we should flip the script a little bit on why patients are taking them, how they got there, and what that means for them professionally.

Yeah, that's a you know, very compelling personal story. I would have to agree with his perspective on what's been happening for many, many years. Our prior caller who talked about the impact on getting jobs. You know, the larger issue there might actually be the stigma that's attached to these medications and that it impacts employment in some areas and some it might, but we could destigmatize these The other thing to keep in mind is that the robustness of the diagnostic process that leads to people being taking anti depressants or on ADHD medications, the robustness of that process has increased dramatically. Our ability to accurately need to diagnose patients is significantly better today than it was before. And so this idea that that caller said that people are inappropriately put on them, I don't think that's the vast majority of patients now, and we should flip the script a little bit on why patients are taking them, how they got there, and what that means for them professionally.

Julie Rogers, Yeah, go ahead tell her so sorry, We're gonna get this together one day. I've got a bunch of comments coming in online, about ninety percent of them about ADHD, but I want to get some in Luke and Milwaukee says the MAGA movement is very harmful to ADHD and autistic people, and I myself am both an adhder and autistic. It's important for those with ADHD to be able to have our medications, as well as people with depression like myself who need SSRIs. And then let's see.

Julie Rogers, Yeah, go ahead tell her so sorry, We're gonna get this together one day. I've got a bunch of comments coming in online, about ninety percent of them about ADHD, but I want to get some in Luke and Milwaukee says the MAGA movement is very harmful to ADHD and autistic people, and I myself am both an adhder and autistic. It's important for those with ADHD to be able to have our medications, as well as people with depression like myself who need SSRIs. And then let's see.

Sorry.

Sorry.

Captain in Kansas City says, is America over medicated? Yes, American medical care is more algorithmic, business based, consumer satisfaction based, and less patient centered and health promoting. This is slowly changing, but we are still decade behind where we could be in Decades of life and health have been lost because of it. That was a very precient comment.

Captain in Kansas City says, is America over medicated? Yes, American medical care is more algorithmic, business based, consumer satisfaction based, and less patient centered and health promoting. This is slowly changing, but we are still decade behind where we could be in Decades of life and health have been lost because of it. That was a very precient comment.

Julie Rober interesting there. Just comparing the American medical system to other countries, Robert F. Kennedy would say, we spend and rightfully so, we spend way more money on healthcare, and part of that is prescription drugs. A big part of that is prescription drugs than many other countries do.

Julie Rober interesting there. Just comparing the American medical system to other countries, Robert F. Kennedy would say, we spend and rightfully so, we spend way more money on healthcare, and part of that is prescription drugs. A big part of that is prescription drugs than many other countries do.

That's because our healthcare system is much more expensive than most other countries. That it's not that we take more that we're sicker, it's that we pay more for what it is that we get. This is obviously a very difficult and sensitive issue for an awful lot of people. And as I say, there's a lot of people who could be taking prescription drugs, who should be taking prescription drugs and who aren't because they can't afford them, because we pay more for our prescription drugs in the United States than any other country in the world, even though most of the drug companies are US companies.

That's because our healthcare system is much more expensive than most other countries. That it's not that we take more that we're sicker, it's that we pay more for what it is that we get. This is obviously a very difficult and sensitive issue for an awful lot of people. And as I say, there's a lot of people who could be taking prescription drugs, who should be taking prescription drugs and who aren't because they can't afford them, because we pay more for our prescription drugs in the United States than any other country in the world, even though most of the drug companies are US companies.

Megan is calling from Minneapolis, Minnesota. Hi, Meghan, welcome to the middle Go ahead with your thought.

Megan is calling from Minneapolis, Minnesota. Hi, Meghan, welcome to the middle Go ahead with your thought.

Hi, welcome and our Thanks for having me and thanks for having this discussion. I think it's a really important one. And I'm the mother of My son is now twenty two, but he had been medicated starting at a really young age. It was like third grade where they wanted to introduce ADHD meds. And so I've seen the effects of these psychotropic and sort of met them betamin drug use on a young child's brain, and I have a lot of concerns about it. I was a young mother at the time when I sort of took the lead of the experts, and now looking back on it, I wish I would have maybe tried some other things before. But I see it's a pretty big trend where these young children are put on these heavy, heavy medications, and then now we have this mental health crisis and we have a lot of addiction issues running wild in our country, and I think it can stem back to having been overly medicated at young ages and those little brains just can't handle all that stuff. You know, it seems like it might help solve things, but there's other ways to do it, and that should be the first thought for young.

Hi, welcome and our Thanks for having me and thanks for having this discussion. I think it's a really important one. And I'm the mother of My son is now twenty two, but he had been medicated starting at a really young age. It was like third grade where they wanted to introduce ADHD meds. And so I've seen the effects of these psychotropic and sort of met them betamin drug use on a young child's brain, and I have a lot of concerns about it. I was a young mother at the time when I sort of took the lead of the experts, and now looking back on it, I wish I would have maybe tried some other things before. But I see it's a pretty big trend where these young children are put on these heavy, heavy medications, and then now we have this mental health crisis and we have a lot of addiction issues running wild in our country, and I think it can stem back to having been overly medicated at young ages and those little brains just can't handle all that stuff. You know, it seems like it might help solve things, but there's other ways to do it, and that should be the first thought for young.

How does your child feel about it?

How does your child feel about it?

Now?

Now?

Now that your child is an.

Now that your child is an.

Adult, he's actually really angry and has a lot of thoughts about having not given consent to this, and you know, he struggles with addiction now, and so he feels kind of like he had no choice and now he's kind of like one of the one of the last colors. Like you know, when you've been on these things for your life, then suddenly you're stuck on it, right. You have no other way to do things, and you're used to functioning with these medications, and so life about them is challenging. And I know there's a lot of times issues with shortages, and so one of the meds my son takes is off and not even available, so he's forced them to sort of self medicate and do other things.

Adult, he's actually really angry and has a lot of thoughts about having not given consent to this, and you know, he struggles with addiction now, and so he feels kind of like he had no choice and now he's kind of like one of the one of the last colors. Like you know, when you've been on these things for your life, then suddenly you're stuck on it, right. You have no other way to do things, and you're used to functioning with these medications, and so life about them is challenging. And I know there's a lot of times issues with shortages, and so one of the meds my son takes is off and not even available, so he's forced them to sort of self medicate and do other things.

So yeah, great points, Megan, Thank you very much. Daniel Grossman, Well, actually there are two things in there, but one of them is she just said, he self medicates because he can't get what he needs. Are we are you seeing shortages of medications because of overuse in some cases?

So yeah, great points, Megan, Thank you very much. Daniel Grossman, Well, actually there are two things in there, but one of them is she just said, he self medicates because he can't get what he needs. Are we are you seeing shortages of medications because of overuse in some cases?

I don't think you know, I don't know a specific answer to that, whether it's from overuse or because we consolidate the number of manufacturers. There are plants that have problems. There's a natural disaster that takes out a major manufacturer of things like ivy fluid that happens now, and so that is probably a larger contributor to shortages of medications than an overuse problem.

I don't think you know, I don't know a specific answer to that, whether it's from overuse or because we consolidate the number of manufacturers. There are plants that have problems. There's a natural disaster that takes out a major manufacturer of things like ivy fluid that happens now, and so that is probably a larger contributor to shortages of medications than an overuse problem.

We have supply chain issues with medications. That's mostly what's causing shortages.

We have supply chain issues with medications. That's mostly what's causing shortages.

Yeah, let me sneak in one more call here before we have to take a quick break. Stephanie's in Longmont, Colorado. Hi, Stephanie, go.

Yeah, let me sneak in one more call here before we have to take a quick break. Stephanie's in Longmont, Colorado. Hi, Stephanie, go.

Ahead, Hi guys. Absolutely, I do agree that the opioid crisis was definitely a problem. Agree, But I kind of wanted to just get the opinion on do we think that currently the state the state of being over medicated is really and truly being over medicated or do you think it's potentially a product of the poor health of Americans, the bad diets and things like that, and then also a mix of you know, the just acceptance of mental health, like and people being more willing to seek out treatment, being more willing to kind of go seek those medications, and that kind of stigma going down and just the combination of those things making it seem like we're overly medicated.

Ahead, Hi guys. Absolutely, I do agree that the opioid crisis was definitely a problem. Agree, But I kind of wanted to just get the opinion on do we think that currently the state the state of being over medicated is really and truly being over medicated or do you think it's potentially a product of the poor health of Americans, the bad diets and things like that, and then also a mix of you know, the just acceptance of mental health, like and people being more willing to seek out treatment, being more willing to kind of go seek those medications, and that kind of stigma going down and just the combination of those things making it seem like we're overly medicated.

Stephanie, I'll take that to Julie Robner.

Stephanie, I'll take that to Julie Robner.

Well, I think doctor Grisam said it early on. It's you know, it's a combination of there's more things we can do and more things that we can diagnose, and yes, are there people who are inappropriately getting medication, clearly? Are there people who should who are not getting medication who should also, clearly. I mean it's a really hard problem. You know, we don't have our you know, it goes back to sort of the mess that our nation's healthcare system is in which we don't really have a health care system. So some people have better access to care than others. Some people have access to care that maybe not with the best providers, and so we end up with people in different situations.

Well, I think doctor Grisam said it early on. It's you know, it's a combination of there's more things we can do and more things that we can diagnose, and yes, are there people who are inappropriately getting medication, clearly? Are there people who should who are not getting medication who should also, clearly. I mean it's a really hard problem. You know, we don't have our you know, it goes back to sort of the mess that our nation's healthcare system is in which we don't really have a health care system. So some people have better access to care than others. Some people have access to care that maybe not with the best providers, and so we end up with people in different situations.

And Julie, you know the Trump administration, there was a first Trump administration and they did not focus on this issue really at all.

And Julie, you know the Trump administration, there was a first Trump administration and they did not focus on this issue really at all.

Well, they focused on Trump was actually very much into drug prices in the first administration and very much trying to get drug prices down, including by some some ways. That court said no, you can't like trying to you know, price drugs the way the same as they are in Europe, which obviously the drug makers all suit. And you know, now there's still the question is whether we're even going to continue this very small program that we have to negotiate drug prices for Medicare. It does look like that's going to continue. But you know this has been hand to hand combat with the drug industry over a lot of years.

Well, they focused on Trump was actually very much into drug prices in the first administration and very much trying to get drug prices down, including by some some ways. That court said no, you can't like trying to you know, price drugs the way the same as they are in Europe, which obviously the drug makers all suit. And you know, now there's still the question is whether we're even going to continue this very small program that we have to negotiate drug prices for Medicare. It does look like that's going to continue. But you know this has been hand to hand combat with the drug industry over a lot of years.

Well, Tolliver, Long before Parker Posey in The White Lotus, there was a character played by Cherry O Terry on Saturday Night Live.

Well, Tolliver, Long before Parker Posey in The White Lotus, there was a character played by Cherry O Terry on Saturday Night Live.

Uh yeah, her name was Collette Reardon. And in addition to uneven lipstick and eyeshadow, we've all been there, she had no shortage of prescription drugs. Here's a clip from nineteen ninety nine.

Uh yeah, her name was Collette Reardon. And in addition to uneven lipstick and eyeshadow, we've all been there, she had no shortage of prescription drugs. Here's a clip from nineteen ninety nine.

Oh seriously, I'm legitimately troubled by the amount of medication on this table.

Oh seriously, I'm legitimately troubled by the amount of medication on this table.

Me too.

Me too.

Well, the second all here is for the night sweats and hot flashes. I get what with being preman a Pauls.

Well, the second all here is for the night sweats and hot flashes. I get what with being preman a Pauls.

Listen, I better fix your phone here right well.

Listen, I better fix your phone here right well.

Mexic quick branch, I got sta call doctor Doug bevlockwam E n T And sometimes why why Well, because I need a refill on the delatta to take from a carpal tunnel syndrome.

Mexic quick branch, I got sta call doctor Doug bevlockwam E n T And sometimes why why Well, because I need a refill on the delatta to take from a carpal tunnel syndrome.

Uh, doc, how do you pronounce balloqua beva lockwa? And she has different names for all the doctors. By the way, I had a lot of fun going through all the clips that we could have used for that with Serio Terry, the problem is that most of them ended up having her swearing at some point. Well well, on the podcast we wouldn't have to, but on the radio show we do. We'll be right back with more of your calls on the Middle. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. In this hour, we're asking you is America over medicated? You can call us at eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four four six four three three five three, or you can reach out at Listen to the Middle dot com. My guests are KFF Health News Chief Washington correspondent Julie Robner and Daniel Grossman, an emergency medicine physician at the Mayo Clinic. And before we go back to the phones, Julie, even if Americans on different sides of the political spectrum, we don't know the political views of the callers that have called in so far, but even if people on both sides were to agree that we are over medicated, the messenger here is Robert F. Kennedy Junior, who, as we mentioned, is also skeptical of vaccines, even in the face of a deadly measles outbreaks that is being fueled by unvaccinated children. Does he have credibility with the people that you speak with in the world of healthcare?

Uh, doc, how do you pronounce balloqua beva lockwa? And she has different names for all the doctors. By the way, I had a lot of fun going through all the clips that we could have used for that with Serio Terry, the problem is that most of them ended up having her swearing at some point. Well well, on the podcast we wouldn't have to, but on the radio show we do. We'll be right back with more of your calls on the Middle. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. In this hour, we're asking you is America over medicated? You can call us at eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four four six four three three five three, or you can reach out at Listen to the Middle dot com. My guests are KFF Health News Chief Washington correspondent Julie Robner and Daniel Grossman, an emergency medicine physician at the Mayo Clinic. And before we go back to the phones, Julie, even if Americans on different sides of the political spectrum, we don't know the political views of the callers that have called in so far, but even if people on both sides were to agree that we are over medicated, the messenger here is Robert F. Kennedy Junior, who, as we mentioned, is also skeptical of vaccines, even in the face of a deadly measles outbreaks that is being fueled by unvaccinated children. Does he have credibility with the people that you speak with in the world of healthcare?

Not really. I mean the MAHA movement, the Make America Healthy Again movement consists of people who are legitimately skeptical of, you know, some things, of people being over medicated. But there it's also made up of people who are selling supplements that have not been you know, the quote unquote natural things that have not been evaluated and approved by the FDA, and then in some cases have been shown to be dangerous. So there's an awful lot of uh, you know. I will resist the urge to say snake oil salesman, but there's an awful lot that's out there on the market that's not quote unquote a drug that's also not very good for you.

Not really. I mean the MAHA movement, the Make America Healthy Again movement consists of people who are legitimately skeptical of, you know, some things, of people being over medicated. But there it's also made up of people who are selling supplements that have not been you know, the quote unquote natural things that have not been evaluated and approved by the FDA, and then in some cases have been shown to be dangerous. So there's an awful lot of uh, you know. I will resist the urge to say snake oil salesman, but there's an awful lot that's out there on the market that's not quote unquote a drug that's also not very good for you.

Daniel. I'm not going to ask you that question because you're a doctor the Mayo Clinic, and Julie can say things like that because she is a correspondent at KFF Health News. But I will ask you this. If you, as a doctor, were to snap your finger and say I want to make America healthier, what would you do and would fewer medications be anywhere on your list.

Daniel. I'm not going to ask you that question because you're a doctor the Mayo Clinic, and Julie can say things like that because she is a correspondent at KFF Health News. But I will ask you this. If you, as a doctor, were to snap your finger and say I want to make America healthier, what would you do and would fewer medications be anywhere on your list.

No, your medications wouldn't. It would be more providers, more physicians, it would be more mental health experts. It would be better access to medical care for our Native American populations. It would be better access to healthy foods and medical care for our Black and Hispanic populations. It would be infrastructural and systems issues. It's not a medication problem.

No, your medications wouldn't. It would be more providers, more physicians, it would be more mental health experts. It would be better access to medical care for our Native American populations. It would be better access to healthy foods and medical care for our Black and Hispanic populations. It would be infrastructural and systems issues. It's not a medication problem.

Let's go to Eli, who's calling from West Hartford, Connecticut. Hi, Eli, welcome to the middle and go ahead, all right.

Let's go to Eli, who's calling from West Hartford, Connecticut. Hi, Eli, welcome to the middle and go ahead, all right.

Thank you for taking the call. Yeah, you know, I just wanted to hold on. I apologize. I'm over here. I'm on a bluecer ally, So I just wanted to mention I actually went through a very part of this process for a very long period of time. I was taking high doses of xanax for years and years and years, having been prescribed it in my teens, and I went through a highly difficult process of having to stop, and all of that was all like there's I just wanted to mention, like the kind of the confluence of all of this. I was stuck in very like dictam mentality. Everything is somebody else's fault, you know, uh, you know the anxiety is you know, I'm not supposed to be experiencing it. Kind of like a cliche millennial male in that, you know, just the world is supposed to be softened my footsteps and sorry, I'll super quick and finished, really quickly. Is that having stopped all that and you know been you know, a responsible member of society like I've been able to you know, triple my income, find my fiance buy a house in just two or three years of just experiencing life as it's supposed to be. Difficult. People experience depression, You experienced anxiety. Get the hell over it. That's the way that life is supposed to be. And I'm for any type of movement that that is supposed to perpetuate that, especially with young men. You know, that is the way that things are supposed to be. It's supposed to be difficult. Get over yourselves.

Thank you for taking the call. Yeah, you know, I just wanted to hold on. I apologize. I'm over here. I'm on a bluecer ally, So I just wanted to mention I actually went through a very part of this process for a very long period of time. I was taking high doses of xanax for years and years and years, having been prescribed it in my teens, and I went through a highly difficult process of having to stop, and all of that was all like there's I just wanted to mention, like the kind of the confluence of all of this. I was stuck in very like dictam mentality. Everything is somebody else's fault, you know, uh, you know the anxiety is you know, I'm not supposed to be experiencing it. Kind of like a cliche millennial male in that, you know, just the world is supposed to be softened my footsteps and sorry, I'll super quick and finished, really quickly. Is that having stopped all that and you know been you know, a responsible member of society like I've been able to you know, triple my income, find my fiance buy a house in just two or three years of just experiencing life as it's supposed to be. Difficult. People experience depression, You experienced anxiety. Get the hell over it. That's the way that life is supposed to be. And I'm for any type of movement that that is supposed to perpetuate that, especially with young men. You know, that is the way that things are supposed to be. It's supposed to be difficult. Get over yourselves.

Can I present aunt ad I've had anxiety, serious anxiety since I was eleven. I'm now in my sixties. I would I, by the way, is one of the people who did with part of the clinical trial for xanax, which did not work very well for me. But I will say I am now on an SSRI and it has changed my life for the better. And I know a lot of people who are that way because as the first caller, I think it was said, when you have a chemical imbalance and you take something that balances your chemical imbalance, you feel like a normal person. So I think, yes, there's a lot of people who are on drugs who shouldn't be. These drugs are not all the same. You can be inappropriately, you know, put on a drug that either does not work for you or that's not appropriate for you. But I think to make some of these blanket statements like Robert F. Kennedy Junior is making that people are over drugged. It's doing a serious disservice to people who take medications that they need.

Can I present aunt ad I've had anxiety, serious anxiety since I was eleven. I'm now in my sixties. I would I, by the way, is one of the people who did with part of the clinical trial for xanax, which did not work very well for me. But I will say I am now on an SSRI and it has changed my life for the better. And I know a lot of people who are that way because as the first caller, I think it was said, when you have a chemical imbalance and you take something that balances your chemical imbalance, you feel like a normal person. So I think, yes, there's a lot of people who are on drugs who shouldn't be. These drugs are not all the same. You can be inappropriately, you know, put on a drug that either does not work for you or that's not appropriate for you. But I think to make some of these blanket statements like Robert F. Kennedy Junior is making that people are over drugged. It's doing a serious disservice to people who take medications that they need.

You know, one class of drugs we haven't talked about this hour surprisingly that Robert F. Kennedy Junior has gone after, is the GLP one drugs, o zepic, wigo, v et cetera. Daniel Grossman, do you have any different thoughts about those than you do about other medications.

You know, one class of drugs we haven't talked about this hour surprisingly that Robert F. Kennedy Junior has gone after, is the GLP one drugs, o zepic, wigo, v et cetera. Daniel Grossman, do you have any different thoughts about those than you do about other medications.

I mean, isn't science amazing? We have been able to create a synthetic version of a natural peptide in the body that tells our body to eat less or help with insulin regulation and sugar regulation and also so you know, diabetes control weight loss as a result also and also will help with things like substance use disorder and alcohol use disorder. Like this is phenomenal. We should avail ourselves of the resources that happen. We should avail ourselves of our mental health providers SSRIs, GLP one. Access like this is amazing and we have access to these things to make us healthier as a result.

I mean, isn't science amazing? We have been able to create a synthetic version of a natural peptide in the body that tells our body to eat less or help with insulin regulation and sugar regulation and also so you know, diabetes control weight loss as a result also and also will help with things like substance use disorder and alcohol use disorder. Like this is phenomenal. We should avail ourselves of the resources that happen. We should avail ourselves of our mental health providers SSRIs, GLP one. Access like this is amazing and we have access to these things to make us healthier as a result.

Bill is calling from Chelmsford, Massachusetts. Hi, Bill, Welcome to the middle What are your thoughts?

Bill is calling from Chelmsford, Massachusetts. Hi, Bill, Welcome to the middle What are your thoughts?

Hey everyone, thank you for taking MC call. I don't think we're over medicated. I think we're undersupported. I think that you see the doctor initially and they give you a doctor to help. There's no follow up as much as there should be. But here's my question. Also, there's an awful lot of stress and concern with the administration and our government today, and there's an awful lot of people who are in need, who don't have the resources. And if RFK is successful in denying even more support to them in the way of whatever, whether it be medication or doctors or social work, what happens to these people who turn from that support or even the medication they need or find help with and turn to things like alcohol or marijuana or other sources where you can't even track it. And at least with medication. Hopefully there's some kind of system that follow with doctors. And I know that the general question we over medicated so broad. There's so many different areas that maybe we're over medicated in one, but we're not in others, and maybe we need more medication than even others. But I think unfortunately that people are going to suffer. The ones that need the support from the government and the fire of case there this way, they're not going to get it, And I'm concerned about that. I'm wonder what you've bandled things.

Hey everyone, thank you for taking MC call. I don't think we're over medicated. I think we're undersupported. I think that you see the doctor initially and they give you a doctor to help. There's no follow up as much as there should be. But here's my question. Also, there's an awful lot of stress and concern with the administration and our government today, and there's an awful lot of people who are in need, who don't have the resources. And if RFK is successful in denying even more support to them in the way of whatever, whether it be medication or doctors or social work, what happens to these people who turn from that support or even the medication they need or find help with and turn to things like alcohol or marijuana or other sources where you can't even track it. And at least with medication. Hopefully there's some kind of system that follow with doctors. And I know that the general question we over medicated so broad. There's so many different areas that maybe we're over medicated in one, but we're not in others, and maybe we need more medication than even others. But I think unfortunately that people are going to suffer. The ones that need the support from the government and the fire of case there this way, they're not going to get it, And I'm concerned about that. I'm wonder what you've bandled things.

Yeah, thank you, Bill, Either of you want to get into that about whether if people don't get the medication they need for things like stress and depression, they may turn to other drugs, including alcohol.

Yeah, thank you, Bill, Either of you want to get into that about whether if people don't get the medication they need for things like stress and depression, they may turn to other drugs, including alcohol.

People have been self medicating since there were people. I mean, we know this from you know, anthropological digs. We see it in you know, in sort of tribes that are in the in the middle of the Amazon. The things that people have availed themselves of to deal with stress and anxiety, and yes, it is part of the human condition, but it's also trying to deal with it is something that humans have always done and I suspect will always do. It's a lot safer, I think, to take drugs in most cases than it is to do some of these other things.

People have been self medicating since there were people. I mean, we know this from you know, anthropological digs. We see it in you know, in sort of tribes that are in the in the middle of the Amazon. The things that people have availed themselves of to deal with stress and anxiety, and yes, it is part of the human condition, but it's also trying to deal with it is something that humans have always done and I suspect will always do. It's a lot safer, I think, to take drugs in most cases than it is to do some of these other things.

Let's get to Gretchen, who's in beautiful Myrtle Beach, South Carolina High Gretchen, welcome to the middle What do you.

Let's get to Gretchen, who's in beautiful Myrtle Beach, South Carolina High Gretchen, welcome to the middle What do you.

Think, Well, I think we're very, very over medicated in this kind. I've been told that only in the US and New Zealand is it legal for drugs to be advertised on TV. And many of the drugs advertised say ask your doctor about this, that or the other drug. And I think it's such a big business that it's really running our country in several ways, as is the automotive industry. But if you watch TV for just a few hours, every other ad on TV is about pharmaceuticals with multiple deadly side effects. I think it's a big business that's running our country in many many ways.

Think, Well, I think we're very, very over medicated in this kind. I've been told that only in the US and New Zealand is it legal for drugs to be advertised on TV. And many of the drugs advertised say ask your doctor about this, that or the other drug. And I think it's such a big business that it's really running our country in several ways, as is the automotive industry. But if you watch TV for just a few hours, every other ad on TV is about pharmaceuticals with multiple deadly side effects. I think it's a big business that's running our country in many many ways.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, Actually, I had a former colleague who didn't want her kid to be marketed to and so she only let him watch p and the Food Channel because the Food Channel she thought would only market to adults. And one night he said to her, Mommy, I can't sleep. Can I have a lunesta? Like six years old? But what about that, Daniel Grossman, just the advertising on television for all these drugs, and just the big business that it is.

Yeah, Actually, I had a former colleague who didn't want her kid to be marketed to and so she only let him watch p and the Food Channel because the Food Channel she thought would only market to adults. And one night he said to her, Mommy, I can't sleep. Can I have a lunesta? Like six years old? But what about that, Daniel Grossman, just the advertising on television for all these drugs, and just the big business that it is.

It's a big business. This is it both helps feed discovery of these and is a marketing machine, right, And so patients do come into physicians and ask for medications by name. That is how marketing works. And the only way to stop that is, of course, is to remove all pharmaceutical marketing, which is not going to happen. So it becomes inherent to the physicians and the patients and develop a relationship of trust to guide for or a way for those medications.