Welcome to the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson, along with our house DJ Tolliver and Tolliver the Middle of the country has a new claim to fame.

Welcome to the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson, along with our house DJ Tolliver and Tolliver the Middle of the country has a new claim to fame.

Does it have anything to do with Corn?

Does it have anything to do with Corn?

No, it is that Hope is from Chicago. How about that?

No, it is that Hope is from Chicago. How about that?

Okay, That's where I'm from.

Okay, That's where I'm from.

Yeah, well I was. You know, Instagram is having fun with this. I saw that. Now Michael Jordan is going to be named a saint and Oprah will be the Queen of England as resulted this. So anyway, we are going to let other shows talk about that development and the ones that I just made up there, but we are going to focus this hour on the seventy million Americans who report having a disability. It has been thirty five years since the Americans with Disabilities Act was signed into law by President George H. W.

Yeah, well I was. You know, Instagram is having fun with this. I saw that. Now Michael Jordan is going to be named a saint and Oprah will be the Queen of England as resulted this. So anyway, we are going to let other shows talk about that development and the ones that I just made up there, but we are going to focus this hour on the seventy million Americans who report having a disability. It has been thirty five years since the Americans with Disabilities Act was signed into law by President George H. W.

Bush.

Bush.

It was a landmark piece of legislation that banned discrimination against people with disabilities and mandated reasonable accommodations in public buildings and transportation. So, thirty five years later, what is still needed in society for people with disabilities? And are the victories from the ADA at risk? We're taking your calls in a moment at eight four four four middle that's eight four four four six four three three five three. But first last week on the show, we were talking about how government can work better with the co author of the new book Abundance. Here are some of the voicemails we got after the show.

It was a landmark piece of legislation that banned discrimination against people with disabilities and mandated reasonable accommodations in public buildings and transportation. So, thirty five years later, what is still needed in society for people with disabilities? And are the victories from the ADA at risk? We're taking your calls in a moment at eight four four four middle that's eight four four four six four three three five three. But first last week on the show, we were talking about how government can work better with the co author of the new book Abundance. Here are some of the voicemails we got after the show.

Hi, my name is ad Navarede and I am calling from Los Angeles regarding red tape. That you're in Los Angeles.

Hi, my name is ad Navarede and I am calling from Los Angeles regarding red tape. That you're in Los Angeles.

We have a lot of rules and building in safety, city planning departments that are really at the root of limitations for our community. My name is Deddie. I'm from Manchester, Tennessee. I know it's a difficult job to do a government budget as large as America's, but I just think it would be better if we got back to instilling public service and people who run for office instead of all of the politics that we are dis manipulated with.

We have a lot of rules and building in safety, city planning departments that are really at the root of limitations for our community. My name is Deddie. I'm from Manchester, Tennessee. I know it's a difficult job to do a government budget as large as America's, but I just think it would be better if we got back to instilling public service and people who run for office instead of all of the politics that we are dis manipulated with.

Hi.

Hi.

My name is Jim Sharp from Brighton, Massachusetts.

My name is Jim Sharp from Brighton, Massachusetts.

I have a very difficult time with the Trump but honestly, he's really taken.

I have a very difficult time with the Trump but honestly, he's really taken.

The helm and pushed things.

The helm and pushed things.

I think that Democrats should put together a project twenty twenty nine or twenty twenty seven.

I think that Democrats should put together a project twenty twenty nine or twenty twenty seven.

List of stuff more action, you know, boldness.

List of stuff more action, you know, boldness.

Well, thanks to everyone who called in And you can hear that entire episode on our podcast in partnership with iHeart Podcasts, on the iHeart app or wherever you listen to podcasts. And of course we've got our weekly extra One Thing Trump Did podcast on the Middle podcast feed. So now to our question this hour, thirty five years after the Americans with Disabilities Act was signed into law, what improvements are still needed for people with disabilities? Tolliver the phone number again. Please you can.

Well, thanks to everyone who called in And you can hear that entire episode on our podcast in partnership with iHeart Podcasts, on the iHeart app or wherever you listen to podcasts. And of course we've got our weekly extra One Thing Trump Did podcast on the Middle podcast feed. So now to our question this hour, thirty five years after the Americans with Disabilities Act was signed into law, what improvements are still needed for people with disabilities? Tolliver the phone number again. Please you can.

Call us at eight four four four Middle, that's eight four four four six four three three five three, or you can write to us a listen to the Middle dot com. You can also comment on our live stream on YouTube.

Call us at eight four four four Middle, that's eight four four four six four three three five three, or you can write to us a listen to the Middle dot com. You can also comment on our live stream on YouTube.

Joining me this hour Alicia Anderson, a disability and inclusion advocate and speaker. Alicia, Welcome to the Middle.

Joining me this hour Alicia Anderson, a disability and inclusion advocate and speaker. Alicia, Welcome to the Middle.

Thank you for having me. I'm excited.

Thank you for having me. I'm excited.

And Calum Borscher's is also here, a columnist for The Wall Street Journal who has covered this issue extensively. Calum, great to have you.

And Calum Borscher's is also here, a columnist for The Wall Street Journal who has covered this issue extensively. Calum, great to have you.

As well, So good to be with you, Jeremy, thanks for having me.

As well, So good to be with you, Jeremy, thanks for having me.

And before we get to the phones, Calum, what do we mean by disabled in twenty twenty five? It's a pretty broad definition.

And before we get to the phones, Calum, what do we mean by disabled in twenty twenty five? It's a pretty broad definition.

Yeah, that's a harder question to answer than you might think. I think that when we think of the Americans with Disabilities to Act, at least as maybe it was conceived in nineteen ninety, we think of maybe people who were blind, people who were deaf, people who use a wheelchair, some of those classic easily recognizable disabilities. But the definition today is much broader than fact. In fact, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention uses one like this. It includes anybody who reports difficulty concentrating, making decisions, or venturing out alone because of a physical, mental, or emotional condition. So that is how you get some seventy million people, as you said, jeremy self identifying as having a disability. It's one in four American adults, so it's a very large of the population.

Yeah, that's a harder question to answer than you might think. I think that when we think of the Americans with Disabilities to Act, at least as maybe it was conceived in nineteen ninety, we think of maybe people who were blind, people who were deaf, people who use a wheelchair, some of those classic easily recognizable disabilities. But the definition today is much broader than fact. In fact, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention uses one like this. It includes anybody who reports difficulty concentrating, making decisions, or venturing out alone because of a physical, mental, or emotional condition. So that is how you get some seventy million people, as you said, jeremy self identifying as having a disability. It's one in four American adults, so it's a very large of the population.

And Alicia, you were born with something called sacral a genesis, which is an underdevelopment of the spinal cord. You use a wheelchair. What kind of a difference has the Americans with Disabilities Act made for you personally?

And Alicia, you were born with something called sacral a genesis, which is an underdevelopment of the spinal cord. You use a wheelchair. What kind of a difference has the Americans with Disabilities Act made for you personally?

It's I mean, we've come a long way in the last fifty years or so of the disability rights movement, and when this legislation started to appear in our society and it's it's the gateway to participating in life or not. You know, it is absolutely imperative for people with any type of disability, whether it's apparent physical disability like mine or you know, the eighty eighty five percent of people that have non apparent disabilities to have the accommodations and the accessibility to access life and produce. And so it's the difference between freedom or exclusion. Honestly, it's really really important this legislation is preserved and advanced. And yeah, it's been a it's been a massive piece of independence for me in my life.

It's I mean, we've come a long way in the last fifty years or so of the disability rights movement, and when this legislation started to appear in our society and it's it's the gateway to participating in life or not. You know, it is absolutely imperative for people with any type of disability, whether it's apparent physical disability like mine or you know, the eighty eighty five percent of people that have non apparent disabilities to have the accommodations and the accessibility to access life and produce. And so it's the difference between freedom or exclusion. Honestly, it's really really important this legislation is preserved and advanced. And yeah, it's been a it's been a massive piece of independence for me in my life.

Well, and when you think about all the places you go in your life, what percentage of the places would you say have the accessibility that you need right now?

Well, and when you think about all the places you go in your life, what percentage of the places would you say have the accessibility that you need right now?

You know, there's a good we're pretty lucky in the United States that we have this type of legislation.

You know, there's a good we're pretty lucky in the United States that we have this type of legislation.

Is it perfect?

Is it perfect?

No. I just had somebody on my podcast. I've bought a podcast called Pushing Forward with Alicia, and of the statistics of almost you know, one point eighty five billion people excuse me, worldwide having a disability, only about sixteen percent have access like physical accessibility to life, and a lot of that happens in the United States, So we have a lot of privilege here, but the Americans with Disabilities Act and other legislations.

No. I just had somebody on my podcast. I've bought a podcast called Pushing Forward with Alicia, and of the statistics of almost you know, one point eighty five billion people excuse me, worldwide having a disability, only about sixteen percent have access like physical accessibility to life, and a lot of that happens in the United States, So we have a lot of privilege here, but the Americans with Disabilities Act and other legislations.

Are the entry point, not the end.

Are the entry point, not the end.

And we're living in a modern day where we need to continue to advance these things as much as.

And we're living in a modern day where we need to continue to advance these things as much as.

Possibleition to covering this issue, you also have several palsy. What kind of a difference has the eighty A made for you?

Possibleition to covering this issue, you also have several palsy. What kind of a difference has the eighty A made for you?

Yeah, I look, nineteen ninety was a big year for me, Jeremy. I mean, I was, I was three years old. I was they had my first major leg surgery, spent several months in like a full body cast. I picked purple, by the way for my cast color go bold, you know, I mean, if you're going to be fully covered, right, you really go for it. And of course nineteen ninety the Americans Disabilities Act, as you say, and so these were two really formative experiences for me as well. And as Alicia said, I think you really can't overstate the degree to which that has, you know, shaped access for people in our generation. And it's interesting to compare notes with folks, you know, who did not live under the ADA earlier. You know, I'm thinking Jeremy of a conversation I had with a paralympian, you know, who competed in the two thousand and two thousand and four Paralympics. So in his youth, you know, well before the Americans with Disabilities Act, and even he was graduating from college, he told me before the Americans with Disabilities Act, and he's he's legally blind, and he told me that one of his first job offers was rescinded once the employer found out that he was blind, and there was no legal protection against that sort of thing at the time.

Yeah, I look, nineteen ninety was a big year for me, Jeremy. I mean, I was, I was three years old. I was they had my first major leg surgery, spent several months in like a full body cast. I picked purple, by the way for my cast color go bold, you know, I mean, if you're going to be fully covered, right, you really go for it. And of course nineteen ninety the Americans Disabilities Act, as you say, and so these were two really formative experiences for me as well. And as Alicia said, I think you really can't overstate the degree to which that has, you know, shaped access for people in our generation. And it's interesting to compare notes with folks, you know, who did not live under the ADA earlier. You know, I'm thinking Jeremy of a conversation I had with a paralympian, you know, who competed in the two thousand and two thousand and four Paralympics. So in his youth, you know, well before the Americans with Disabilities Act, and even he was graduating from college, he told me before the Americans with Disabilities Act, and he's he's legally blind, and he told me that one of his first job offers was rescinded once the employer found out that he was blind, and there was no legal protection against that sort of thing at the time.

So when you look at what's happening right now, and since Donald Trump has come back into office, they've gotten rid of the sign language interpreter at the White House, the web page on accessibility has disappeared. The administration has banned DEI initiatives, which certainly affect people with disabilities. Are the gains callum of the ADA at risk.

So when you look at what's happening right now, and since Donald Trump has come back into office, they've gotten rid of the sign language interpreter at the White House, the web page on accessibility has disappeared. The administration has banned DEI initiatives, which certainly affect people with disabilities. Are the gains callum of the ADA at risk.

Well, some of them could be, and I think especially for folks who have, as Alisha said, kind of those invisible disabilities.

Well, some of them could be, and I think especially for folks who have, as Alisha said, kind of those invisible disabilities.

Right.

Right.

So one of the things that really piqued my interest in my recent reporting is the recent uptick in people in the workplace. My column is focused every week on the workplace, people in the workplace asking for accommodations, and this is partly, not exclusively, but partly a post pandemic phenomenon, right, I mean, the ability to work from home was really a game changer for a lot of Americans with disabilities. And so when you look at the data from twenty twenty one to twenty twenty four, how many Americans are asking for disability accommodations at work and making a complaint to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission if they actually don't get what they're asking for. You've seen a fifty one percent spike in just three years from twenty twenty one to twenty twenty four, and a lot of those come from folks who are seeking mental health accommodation. So again, these are not necessarily the folks who are using the wheelchair. It's not the folks who are visually impaired, or if these are folks saying I have anxiety, I have depression, I have PTSD, I have some kind of mental or emotional health condition, and I would like a work from home accommodation to go with that. And I think that's the sort of thing, right, because, as you said, you know, the Trump White House in addition to scrutinizing DEI is also banging the drama and get back to work, to work to the office, right. And so that's where these issues intersect at least.

So one of the things that really piqued my interest in my recent reporting is the recent uptick in people in the workplace. My column is focused every week on the workplace, people in the workplace asking for accommodations, and this is partly, not exclusively, but partly a post pandemic phenomenon, right, I mean, the ability to work from home was really a game changer for a lot of Americans with disabilities. And so when you look at the data from twenty twenty one to twenty twenty four, how many Americans are asking for disability accommodations at work and making a complaint to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission if they actually don't get what they're asking for. You've seen a fifty one percent spike in just three years from twenty twenty one to twenty twenty four, and a lot of those come from folks who are seeking mental health accommodation. So again, these are not necessarily the folks who are using the wheelchair. It's not the folks who are visually impaired, or if these are folks saying I have anxiety, I have depression, I have PTSD, I have some kind of mental or emotional health condition, and I would like a work from home accommodation to go with that. And I think that's the sort of thing, right, because, as you said, you know, the Trump White House in addition to scrutinizing DEI is also banging the drama and get back to work, to work to the office, right. And so that's where these issues intersect at least.

So what do you think about that are the gains from the ADA at risk? Right now?

So what do you think about that are the gains from the ADA at risk? Right now?

I mean one hundred percent.

I mean one hundred percent.

There's legislation going on and lawsuits in about sixteen states to pull back some of the real five or four Rehabilitation Act mandates. There's there's a lot of conversations going on right now, and there's a lot of fear factor around disability and inclusion. That's false narratives, that is, you know, leading us in a trajectory of absolutely having whiplash on this conversation. And I agree, since COVID and working from home and you know, inclusive work has been more attainable for people with disabilities, we've seen so many strides happen. And honestly, a lot of education, a lot of the work that I do is in DEI and going into companies and talking about the benefits of accessibility and the innovations and the return and an investment on having a shift and lens of looking at disability as an opportunity in the workforce rather than this limiting thing that we have to fear and pull back as you know, a compliance have a financial obligation when it actually really drives innovation and dollars in the door.

There's legislation going on and lawsuits in about sixteen states to pull back some of the real five or four Rehabilitation Act mandates. There's there's a lot of conversations going on right now, and there's a lot of fear factor around disability and inclusion. That's false narratives, that is, you know, leading us in a trajectory of absolutely having whiplash on this conversation. And I agree, since COVID and working from home and you know, inclusive work has been more attainable for people with disabilities, we've seen so many strides happen. And honestly, a lot of education, a lot of the work that I do is in DEI and going into companies and talking about the benefits of accessibility and the innovations and the return and an investment on having a shift and lens of looking at disability as an opportunity in the workforce rather than this limiting thing that we have to fear and pull back as you know, a compliance have a financial obligation when it actually really drives innovation and dollars in the door.

So well, and I'm glad you mentioned workforce, Alicia, because the numbers are pretty interesting that people with disabilities have like half the employment rate of people without disabilities in this country.

So well, and I'm glad you mentioned workforce, Alicia, because the numbers are pretty interesting that people with disabilities have like half the employment rate of people without disabilities in this country.

I think it's less than that even, but yeah, it's you know, the employment rate is low, but it was kind of the trajectory was growing a little bit more. But we have a lot of work to do in the workplace, specifically to get to a place where employees with disabilities feel safe to talk about their disability and what accommodations they need, and for employers to look at it as an opportunity to implement, you know, a piece of accessibility technology that's going to allow their employees to be x amount more productive and profitable for them. So it's it's an absolute shift in the way that we look at disability for sure.

I think it's less than that even, but yeah, it's you know, the employment rate is low, but it was kind of the trajectory was growing a little bit more. But we have a lot of work to do in the workplace, specifically to get to a place where employees with disabilities feel safe to talk about their disability and what accommodations they need, and for employers to look at it as an opportunity to implement, you know, a piece of accessibility technology that's going to allow their employees to be x amount more productive and profitable for them. So it's it's an absolute shift in the way that we look at disability for sure.

Yeah, we're going to get to some moment in a reminder, you can reach us at eight four four four middle that is eight four four four six four three three five three. You can also reach out to us at Listen to the Middle dot com. Tolliver. As we said earlier, it has been thirty five years since the ADA was signed into law.

Yeah, we're going to get to some moment in a reminder, you can reach us at eight four four four middle that is eight four four four six four three three five three. You can also reach out to us at Listen to the Middle dot com. Tolliver. As we said earlier, it has been thirty five years since the ADA was signed into law.

Yeah, here's some sound from that moment. This is President George H. W. Bush in nineteen ninety.

Yeah, here's some sound from that moment. This is President George H. W. Bush in nineteen ninety.

And now I sign legislation which takes a sledgehammer to another wall, one which has for too many generations separated Americans with disabilities from the freedom naked glimpse but not grass And once again we rejoice as this barrier falls for claiming together, we will not accept, we will not excuse, we will not tolerate discrimination in America.

And now I sign legislation which takes a sledgehammer to another wall, one which has for too many generations separated Americans with disabilities from the freedom naked glimpse but not grass And once again we rejoice as this barrier falls for claiming together, we will not accept, we will not excuse, we will not tolerate discrimination in America.

For the gen Z listeners, George H. W. Bush was a Republican, just like Donald Trump is a Republican, although they do sound a little different, Tolliver on some of these issues.

For the gen Z listeners, George H. W. Bush was a Republican, just like Donald Trump is a Republican, although they do sound a little different, Tolliver on some of these issues.

You know what you're right? I mean, George kind of sounds like in the middle here now in the middle.

You know what you're right? I mean, George kind of sounds like in the middle here now in the middle.

Right, We'll be right back with more of what the middle. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. If you're just tuning in the Middle as a national call in show, we're focused on elevating voices from the middle, geographically, politically, or philosophically, or maybe you just want to meet in the middle. This hour, we're asking you what improvements are still needed in society for people with disabilities. Tolliver, can you give us the number again?

Right, We'll be right back with more of what the middle. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. If you're just tuning in the Middle as a national call in show, we're focused on elevating voices from the middle, geographically, politically, or philosophically, or maybe you just want to meet in the middle. This hour, we're asking you what improvements are still needed in society for people with disabilities. Tolliver, can you give us the number again?

Please?

Please?

Yeah, it's eight four four four a middle. That's eight four four four six four three three five three. You can also write to us at Listen to the Middle dot com. That's Listened to the Middle dot com. I'm monitoring those emails. You can also write to us on social media.

Yeah, it's eight four four four a middle. That's eight four four four six four three three five three. You can also write to us at Listen to the Middle dot com. That's Listened to the Middle dot com. I'm monitoring those emails. You can also write to us on social media.

I'm joined by Alicia Anderson at Disability, an inclusion advocate and speaker, and Wall Street Journal columnist Callum Borscher's and let's get to the phones. Jennifer is in Wawa Tosa, Wisconsin. Jennifer, I hope, I said the name of your town right. What do you think could be done to make things better for people with disability?

I'm joined by Alicia Anderson at Disability, an inclusion advocate and speaker, and Wall Street Journal columnist Callum Borscher's and let's get to the phones. Jennifer is in Wawa Tosa, Wisconsin. Jennifer, I hope, I said the name of your town right. What do you think could be done to make things better for people with disability?

He did great on the pronunciation. Thanks for having me on. I am a parent of a son, a sixteen year old son with a disability, and there are a couple of things that leap to mind. First of all, the funding of Medicaid is seriously at risk. There are a bunch of people in the disability community that get a lot of services through Medicaid, including for my son especially. He gets secondary medical insurance through Medicaid. He gets respite care, access to camps, access to programs, he gets a job coach for his first job this summer. All of these things both help my family financially as well as allow us to kind of stay afloat in the world. The second thing from a disability perspective is because we're in the thick of it. He's a sophomore in high school, my son is and special education right now in Wisconsin specifically, is funded at about a thirty percent level. We're advocating here in Wisconsin to get that funded at at least a sixty percent level. So basically what that means is that our local school district has to come up with seventy percent of the funding for our special education programs, and some communities can't afford it, and other communities are really bootstrapping it to find even the funding to do the basics in this economy.

He did great on the pronunciation. Thanks for having me on. I am a parent of a son, a sixteen year old son with a disability, and there are a couple of things that leap to mind. First of all, the funding of Medicaid is seriously at risk. There are a bunch of people in the disability community that get a lot of services through Medicaid, including for my son especially. He gets secondary medical insurance through Medicaid. He gets respite care, access to camps, access to programs, he gets a job coach for his first job this summer. All of these things both help my family financially as well as allow us to kind of stay afloat in the world. The second thing from a disability perspective is because we're in the thick of it. He's a sophomore in high school, my son is and special education right now in Wisconsin specifically, is funded at about a thirty percent level. We're advocating here in Wisconsin to get that funded at at least a sixty percent level. So basically what that means is that our local school district has to come up with seventy percent of the funding for our special education programs, and some communities can't afford it, and other communities are really bootstrapping it to find even the funding to do the basics in this economy.

Yeah, Jennifer, thank you very much for that call. Alicia. Let's talk about the Medicaid part of that. First of all, you know, we think of Medicaid as the government healthcare for people are who are poor in this country, but in fact, for people with disabilities, it could be crucial.

Yeah, Jennifer, thank you very much for that call. Alicia. Let's talk about the Medicaid part of that. First of all, you know, we think of Medicaid as the government healthcare for people are who are poor in this country, but in fact, for people with disabilities, it could be crucial.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's around seventeen million people that have Our older adults and people with disabilities rely on Medicaid for essential services that.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's around seventeen million people that have Our older adults and people with disabilities rely on Medicaid for essential services that.

Frankly keep them alp keep them going.

Frankly keep them alp keep them going.

And so cuts to that are significant in many different ways and threaten access to really survival in life when it comes to, you know, managing your disability or having the resources that you need.

And so cuts to that are significant in many different ways and threaten access to really survival in life when it comes to, you know, managing your disability or having the resources that you need.

There's a disability tax.

There's a disability tax.

It's expensive to be disabled, it's expensive to have insurance and get through all of those challenges, and so this is a really really important piece of advocacy that we all need to be loud about right now.

It's expensive to be disabled, it's expensive to have insurance and get through all of those challenges, and so this is a really really important piece of advocacy that we all need to be loud about right now.

So we're protecting it. It's very important.

So we're protecting it. It's very important.

Hey, kellum, what about the special education piece. We know that, first of all, the Department of Education is being dismantled as we speak, and that's going to have a big impact on the amount of money that local school districts have for things like special education.

Hey, kellum, what about the special education piece. We know that, first of all, the Department of Education is being dismantled as we speak, and that's going to have a big impact on the amount of money that local school districts have for things like special education.

Yes, it will. And I think the piece that's interesting with this too. I mean we're talking about the anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act. But we're also twenty some odd years after No Child Left Behind, And where some of those things overlap is the push that many states have made, partly because of No Child Left Behind and some state level measures to assess and improve special education outcomes. Is a bit of a backlash.

Yes, it will. And I think the piece that's interesting with this too. I mean we're talking about the anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act. But we're also twenty some odd years after No Child Left Behind, And where some of those things overlap is the push that many states have made, partly because of No Child Left Behind and some state level measures to assess and improve special education outcomes. Is a bit of a backlash.

Now.

Now.

I'm calling you here from Massachusetts, for example, where we just in the fall repealed the state standardized testing as a graduation requirement, and there are mixed thoughts on what that means for students with disabilities. On the one hand, the argument is that we're taking away a barrier, right because the students who often could not pass that exam and were being denied their high school diplomas, they were disproportionately students with disabilities. So that was the argument for appealing it. On the flip side of that, though, the concern is that will school districts sort of throw in the towel, will they try as hard to educate these children with intellectual disability. I don't have to pass if they don't have to pass the test, right, And so it's too early to know the answer to the at but I think that's one of the things that.

I'm calling you here from Massachusetts, for example, where we just in the fall repealed the state standardized testing as a graduation requirement, and there are mixed thoughts on what that means for students with disabilities. On the one hand, the argument is that we're taking away a barrier, right because the students who often could not pass that exam and were being denied their high school diplomas, they were disproportionately students with disabilities. So that was the argument for appealing it. On the flip side of that, though, the concern is that will school districts sort of throw in the towel, will they try as hard to educate these children with intellectual disability. I don't have to pass if they don't have to pass the test, right, And so it's too early to know the answer to the at but I think that's one of the things that.

We're looking at here too.

We're looking at here too.

That's just one stage's example, but that is part of the ripple effects here of as you said, perhaps dismantling the entire Department of Education, and perhaps also some of those No Child Left Behind loss. They've been on the books now for twenty or so years.

That's just one stage's example, but that is part of the ripple effects here of as you said, perhaps dismantling the entire Department of Education, and perhaps also some of those No Child Left Behind loss. They've been on the books now for twenty or so years.

Let's go to Jorge, who is in San Antonio, Texas. Hi, Jorge, welcome to the middle. Go ahead with your thoughts.

Let's go to Jorge, who is in San Antonio, Texas. Hi, Jorge, welcome to the middle. Go ahead with your thoughts.

Cool.

Cool.

No, so I came in halfway through the programming and I'm dealing with them in the worst parts of their lives. As far as like the Americans' Disabilities Act. Really, I think part of our problem is like incredibly structural and foundational, and the fact that most of our buildings aren't even designed to accommodate disabled, let alone getting a stretcher.

No, so I came in halfway through the programming and I'm dealing with them in the worst parts of their lives. As far as like the Americans' Disabilities Act. Really, I think part of our problem is like incredibly structural and foundational, and the fact that most of our buildings aren't even designed to accommodate disabled, let alone getting a stretcher.

To the door.

To the door.

So I feel like if we as a nation started building more empathetically and thinking about people's needs as they get older, because everybody will become disabled at some point, I think that'll actually help us to be more present in the moment and then probably also start getting more policies in place. And you know, I don't well hopefully kicking people who are discriminating against the disabled and others in the butt.

So I feel like if we as a nation started building more empathetically and thinking about people's needs as they get older, because everybody will become disabled at some point, I think that'll actually help us to be more present in the moment and then probably also start getting more policies in place. And you know, I don't well hopefully kicking people who are discriminating against the disabled and others in the butt.

Anyway, that was thought.

Anyway, that was thought.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you for having me.

Yeah, thanks, thanks for calling in. Let me get to another caller and Kay, who's in Madison, Wisconsin. Hi, K, welcome to the middle. Go ahead. What do you think could be done to them?

Yeah, thanks, thanks for calling in. Let me get to another caller and Kay, who's in Madison, Wisconsin. Hi, K, welcome to the middle. Go ahead. What do you think could be done to them?

My agenda is this. I was born severely premature and I ended up blind in my left eye. I've been researching this. It seems to be what I was always told that it has to do with lack of oxygen and the incubator. But the households don't seem to know this. And there are five people in the Senior Center here in Madison. We were all born premature, and five of us were buying totally or in one eye. And that's out of a population the Senior center maybe three hundred people. So you can do the math on that. Anyway. My main problem in terms of walking in Madison is it's a hilly area and the street lights are which means if the sun is in back the light, the glare just kills you. Also, to complicate my situation more, the doctors never tell at least I never heard, and I do pay attention that shingles is contagious so I have a broken nose, partly because of a disabled injury, and the shingles went in my right eye, so now I'm kind of three quarters blind. So the Senior Center helps out by letting me use the computer and they've adjusted a black screen. But the street walking as ours, and I've talked to people who say they who are fully sighted have problems crossing the streets. I think the traffic speech should probably be reduced. It's probably thirty miles an hour. I used to work in traffic issues in New York City. I would reduce it to twenty five. And even a bicycle can probably kill you. And I'm not sure there's a law that it's required to wear helmets.

My agenda is this. I was born severely premature and I ended up blind in my left eye. I've been researching this. It seems to be what I was always told that it has to do with lack of oxygen and the incubator. But the households don't seem to know this. And there are five people in the Senior Center here in Madison. We were all born premature, and five of us were buying totally or in one eye. And that's out of a population the Senior center maybe three hundred people. So you can do the math on that. Anyway. My main problem in terms of walking in Madison is it's a hilly area and the street lights are which means if the sun is in back the light, the glare just kills you. Also, to complicate my situation more, the doctors never tell at least I never heard, and I do pay attention that shingles is contagious so I have a broken nose, partly because of a disabled injury, and the shingles went in my right eye, so now I'm kind of three quarters blind. So the Senior Center helps out by letting me use the computer and they've adjusted a black screen. But the street walking as ours, and I've talked to people who say they who are fully sighted have problems crossing the streets. I think the traffic speech should probably be reduced. It's probably thirty miles an hour. I used to work in traffic issues in New York City. I would reduce it to twenty five. And even a bicycle can probably kill you. And I'm not sure there's a law that it's required to wear helmets.

Yeah, okay, I thank you, thank you very much. That Alicia. You know, when she talks about like the lights or reducing the traffic speed, I'm sure there are a lot of listeners who are like, wait, no, don't reduce the traffic speed. I want to be able to go thirty miles an hour. But these are the kinds of things that I think maybe the majority of Americans don't think about. But for an individual, that makes the difference between their ability to walk from one part of town to another, or just participate in normal life.

Yeah, okay, I thank you, thank you very much. That Alicia. You know, when she talks about like the lights or reducing the traffic speed, I'm sure there are a lot of listeners who are like, wait, no, don't reduce the traffic speed. I want to be able to go thirty miles an hour. But these are the kinds of things that I think maybe the majority of Americans don't think about. But for an individual, that makes the difference between their ability to walk from one part of town to another, or just participate in normal life.

I think for both the last two colors, we need to understand that the world was not built for disabled people. It was built for a very like typical, able bodied perspective. And so there's all these challenges that we run into, and how we do better in that is prioritizing universal design approaches that are taking you know, multiple abilities, lived experiences into you know, into the development of new infrastructure, new cities, new schools, new workplaces. Were we're reducing a lot of these barriers that are very isolated to this perfect able bodied scenario. Because the fact is disability is a part of human nature. We all become disabled in and out of it throughout our lives, and we haven't been historically building environments and infrastructure that accommodate you know, diverse abilities. And so I think starting to look through a different lens of how we're developing is the way we start to solve these things, moving into like a modern place of inclusion.

I think for both the last two colors, we need to understand that the world was not built for disabled people. It was built for a very like typical, able bodied perspective. And so there's all these challenges that we run into, and how we do better in that is prioritizing universal design approaches that are taking you know, multiple abilities, lived experiences into you know, into the development of new infrastructure, new cities, new schools, new workplaces. Were we're reducing a lot of these barriers that are very isolated to this perfect able bodied scenario. Because the fact is disability is a part of human nature. We all become disabled in and out of it throughout our lives, and we haven't been historically building environments and infrastructure that accommodate you know, diverse abilities. And so I think starting to look through a different lens of how we're developing is the way we start to solve these things, moving into like a modern place of inclusion.

M hmm, Tolliver, I know some comments are coming in online.

M hmm, Tolliver, I know some comments are coming in online.

There's so many I'm typing them up. Okay, So McDuffie from Georgia and he stresses the state, not the country, says, isn't this best left up for states to decide? Aren't the individual states the best arbiters of what works for their residents? Why does it have to be a government led solution nationwide one ramp fits all solution.

There's so many I'm typing them up. Okay, So McDuffie from Georgia and he stresses the state, not the country, says, isn't this best left up for states to decide? Aren't the individual states the best arbiters of what works for their residents? Why does it have to be a government led solution nationwide one ramp fits all solution.

Let's go, let's go to calum on that. What about that having the states make their own decisions about as opposed to the federal government.

Let's go, let's go to calum on that. What about that having the states make their own decisions about as opposed to the federal government.

I mean, I think the challenge there is that you'll just get very inconsistent levels of accommodation, which we already have to some degree. I think that partly comes down to enforcement. But I am thinking of, you know, a conversation I had with a woman named Justina PLoud and she is she's the reigning Miss Wheelchair Louisiana, by the way, and she says her whole her platform, as as Miss Louisiana was increasing you know, accommodations for wheelchair users in you know, sidewalks and public transit in her area. And she's, you know, in her part of Louisiana where she lives, it's still very spotty, you know, and she has a hard time getting around. And so, you know, I understand the state's rights argument. I also understand the argument from people like Justina who say, why should I in Louisiana have a poorer experience than somebody in New York City. I would submit this might be an area of bipartisan agreement. Jeremy, I mean, Alicia, you said the magic word a moment ago, infrastructure, right. I mean you remember the first Trump White House every other week was infrastructure week. You know, this might be this might be an opportunity where you could actually get some bipartisan agreement to you know, make some gains that are really not political inside of the other.

I mean, I think the challenge there is that you'll just get very inconsistent levels of accommodation, which we already have to some degree. I think that partly comes down to enforcement. But I am thinking of, you know, a conversation I had with a woman named Justina PLoud and she is she's the reigning Miss Wheelchair Louisiana, by the way, and she says her whole her platform, as as Miss Louisiana was increasing you know, accommodations for wheelchair users in you know, sidewalks and public transit in her area. And she's, you know, in her part of Louisiana where she lives, it's still very spotty, you know, and she has a hard time getting around. And so, you know, I understand the state's rights argument. I also understand the argument from people like Justina who say, why should I in Louisiana have a poorer experience than somebody in New York City. I would submit this might be an area of bipartisan agreement. Jeremy, I mean, Alicia, you said the magic word a moment ago, infrastructure, right. I mean you remember the first Trump White House every other week was infrastructure week. You know, this might be this might be an opportunity where you could actually get some bipartisan agreement to you know, make some gains that are really not political inside of the other.

Let's go to Steve, who's in Edwardsville, Illinois. Hi, Steve, welcome to the middle Go ahead, Well.

Let's go to Steve, who's in Edwardsville, Illinois. Hi, Steve, welcome to the middle Go ahead, Well.

Thank you for taking my call. I'm an attorney in downstate Illinois, and I go to courthouses all over the state, and many of the rural counties don't have accessible courtrooms. The courthouses sometimes there are two stories and the courtrooms are on the second story, and there are long flights and steps. So I see an area of improvement for accommodations in courthouses that they.

Thank you for taking my call. I'm an attorney in downstate Illinois, and I go to courthouses all over the state, and many of the rural counties don't have accessible courtrooms. The courthouses sometimes there are two stories and the courtrooms are on the second story, and there are long flights and steps. So I see an area of improvement for accommodations in courthouses that they.

That they the rural areas. I mean, just sort of to the point that we were just talking about Steve that the rural areas are not the same when it comes to accessibility as maybe a major city.

That they the rural areas. I mean, just sort of to the point that we were just talking about Steve that the rural areas are not the same when it comes to accessibility as maybe a major city.

Right, And a lot of these rural counties are case strapped. They don't have a lot in a lot of cases the financial wherewithal So that's where you need a federal program to step in where the counties. No, some of these counties are barely getting by. And and uh so that's my my area that I've seen in my daily life where I see people who go to court and can't get into the court room. Yeah, I don't see what they do.

Right, And a lot of these rural counties are case strapped. They don't have a lot in a lot of cases the financial wherewithal So that's where you need a federal program to step in where the counties. No, some of these counties are barely getting by. And and uh so that's my my area that I've seen in my daily life where I see people who go to court and can't get into the court room. Yeah, I don't see what they do.

Yeah, thank you, thank you very much for that. You know, Alicia, I'm gonna come to you and ask you just about the cost of of upgrading places. It's it's not cheap. I remember a building I used to work in. They expanded into another building and they had to create a ramp between the two and it was either a ramp that had a really low grade or they had to build a little elevator just to go the you know, five feet down from one side to the other. But it's not cheap to do that. Do you need federal money in order to make something like that happen? Or can companies afford to do it.

Yeah, thank you, thank you very much for that. You know, Alicia, I'm gonna come to you and ask you just about the cost of of upgrading places. It's it's not cheap. I remember a building I used to work in. They expanded into another building and they had to create a ramp between the two and it was either a ramp that had a really low grade or they had to build a little elevator just to go the you know, five feet down from one side to the other. But it's not cheap to do that. Do you need federal money in order to make something like that happen? Or can companies afford to do it.

You know, I'd like to look at from another perspective, is it's not cheap and it's a missed loss of return on an investment. To not have accessibility, you're leaving out a massive population to come in and be consumers to spend money to participate.

You know, I'd like to look at from another perspective, is it's not cheap and it's a missed loss of return on an investment. To not have accessibility, you're leaving out a massive population to come in and be consumers to spend money to participate.

And so if you have to spend.

And so if you have to spend.

X amount of dollars on, let's, for your example, a ramp, how many more customers consumers do you bring in the door. It's innovative to have accessibility implemented from a philosophical standpoint in an organization, company infrastructure, because it allows more bodies to participate. And I think that's an old tired way to look at accessibility. Money delays dollars, What about the human being? It's going to allow in to start spending and engaging. And I think that's a shift and lens that we need to start to have.

X amount of dollars on, let's, for your example, a ramp, how many more customers consumers do you bring in the door. It's innovative to have accessibility implemented from a philosophical standpoint in an organization, company infrastructure, because it allows more bodies to participate. And I think that's an old tired way to look at accessibility. Money delays dollars, What about the human being? It's going to allow in to start spending and engaging. And I think that's a shift and lens that we need to start to have.

Well, and callum, you're at the Wall Street Journal. You've talked to companies about this kind of thing. Which mindset do they have on this issue?

Well, and callum, you're at the Wall Street Journal. You've talked to companies about this kind of thing. Which mindset do they have on this issue?

Yeah, I mean it is mixed, You're right. I mean they do see the dollar signs right when it comes to some big ticket upgrades But Alicia makes a great point about the business term is opportunity cost?

Yeah, I mean it is mixed, You're right. I mean they do see the dollar signs right when it comes to some big ticket upgrades But Alicia makes a great point about the business term is opportunity cost?

Right?

Right?

What opportunity are you losing out on by not making your workplace accessible to all the talent that is out there. I think this is actually one of the potential, you know, double edged swords of you know, the zoom world that we live in now, where some workplaces and other buildings perhaps as well. We heard from a caller about I think it was Steve calling in about the courthouse access. But sometimes, you know, the thought can be, well, we don't have to make the building so accessible. The accommodation can simply be we'll do a virtual hearing, for example. And I'm not sure that's quite going far enough. I mean, that's a nice short term solution, but the building itself ought to be accessible as well. And I just make one other point on this too, which is that there's lower hanging fruit even before you get to those big upgrades and installing the elevators and the ramps. How about making sure that the stuff you already have is working. I mean, Alicia, what's the percentage of time when you try to go through a door to some building you hit the wheelchair button for the door to open. What percentage of time does it actually work for you?

What opportunity are you losing out on by not making your workplace accessible to all the talent that is out there. I think this is actually one of the potential, you know, double edged swords of you know, the zoom world that we live in now, where some workplaces and other buildings perhaps as well. We heard from a caller about I think it was Steve calling in about the courthouse access. But sometimes, you know, the thought can be, well, we don't have to make the building so accessible. The accommodation can simply be we'll do a virtual hearing, for example. And I'm not sure that's quite going far enough. I mean, that's a nice short term solution, but the building itself ought to be accessible as well. And I just make one other point on this too, which is that there's lower hanging fruit even before you get to those big upgrades and installing the elevators and the ramps. How about making sure that the stuff you already have is working. I mean, Alicia, what's the percentage of time when you try to go through a door to some building you hit the wheelchair button for the door to open. What percentage of time does it actually work for you?

Oh, that's a really good question.

Oh, that's a really good question.

I mean there's definitely some user error and faulty buttons, so I don't know that statistic.

I mean there's definitely some user error and faulty buttons, so I don't know that statistic.

But I mean anecdotally. I don't mean that hard number, but the point, but how about just making sure that your buttons always work? I guess you know what I mean. If you like, you're already already have it, you're already in compliance whatnot. But howbo just making sure that it's maintained and working properly? You know, I think there's little stuff like that that businesses can do before they think about what's the big expense of installing a new Ramper elevator.

But I mean anecdotally. I don't mean that hard number, but the point, but how about just making sure that your buttons always work? I guess you know what I mean. If you like, you're already already have it, you're already in compliance whatnot. But howbo just making sure that it's maintained and working properly? You know, I think there's little stuff like that that businesses can do before they think about what's the big expense of installing a new Ramper elevator.

By the way, Alicia, how do you feel about people who clearly have like a really high end dog that they take on a plane and it doesn't really seem like that's a service animal, but they're getting away with it anyway. I mean, does that hurt the ability for companies to know? I don't do that, but does that hurt the ability for companies to you know, make things accessible when people, in my view would abuse it?

By the way, Alicia, how do you feel about people who clearly have like a really high end dog that they take on a plane and it doesn't really seem like that's a service animal, but they're getting away with it anyway. I mean, does that hurt the ability for companies to know? I don't do that, but does that hurt the ability for companies to you know, make things accessible when people, in my view would abuse it?

Yeah, I mean obviously there's abuse in everything. Also, you know, try to look from the perspective of even if it looks like they're abusing, we actually don't know what's going on with somebody unless we're having the conversation. So I think those assumptions are a little bit dangerous, and they can lead down the path of creating more bias and stigma towards something that might not actually be an you know, taking advantage of something.

Yeah, I mean obviously there's abuse in everything. Also, you know, try to look from the perspective of even if it looks like they're abusing, we actually don't know what's going on with somebody unless we're having the conversation. So I think those assumptions are a little bit dangerous, and they can lead down the path of creating more bias and stigma towards something that might not actually be an you know, taking advantage of something.

So I think it has to go further than just looking and going, oh, doc, I don't know. I'm not so sure.

So I think it has to go further than just looking and going, oh, doc, I don't know. I'm not so sure.

That that's necessary. There's potentially something and more than likely something that is going on there that you know, it's you.

That that's necessary. There's potentially something and more than likely something that is going on there that you know, it's you.

Know, good to go.

Know, good to go.

Assume best intentions is what you're saying.

Assume best intentions is what you're saying.

At the heart of inclusion typically, and that you're always going to find somebody something that is taken advantage. That's not a reason to not have these programs in place and advancing them because there's so much value in it.

At the heart of inclusion typically, and that you're always going to find somebody something that is taken advantage. That's not a reason to not have these programs in place and advancing them because there's so much value in it.

So well, Tolliver. One of the trailblazers of disability rights in this country was activist Judith Human, who passed away in twenty twenty three.

So well, Tolliver. One of the trailblazers of disability rights in this country was activist Judith Human, who passed away in twenty twenty three.

Yeah, she delivered some powerful words in the nineteen eighty eight Senate hearing on discrimination on the basis of disability.

Yeah, she delivered some powerful words in the nineteen eighty eight Senate hearing on discrimination on the basis of disability.

When I was five, my mother proudly pushed my wheelchair to our local public school, where I was promptly refused admission because the principal rule that I was quote a fire hazard end quote. I was forced to go onto home instruction, receiving one hour of education twice a week for three and a half years. Was this the America of my parents' dreams? My entrance into mainstream society was blocked by discrimination and segregation.

When I was five, my mother proudly pushed my wheelchair to our local public school, where I was promptly refused admission because the principal rule that I was quote a fire hazard end quote. I was forced to go onto home instruction, receiving one hour of education twice a week for three and a half years. Was this the America of my parents' dreams? My entrance into mainstream society was blocked by discrimination and segregation.

Judith Human was known as the mother of the disability rights movement, and I encourage people go online and look up some of these videos of her. It's pretty amazing to watch. We'll be right back with more of the middle. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. In this hour, we're asking you what improvements are still needed in society for people with disabilities, thirty five years after the Americans with Disabilities Act was signed into law. You can call us at eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four four six four three three five three. My guess are Wall Street Journal columnist Colin Borscher's and Alicia Anderson, a disability and inclusion advocate and speaker. The phone lines are full, So let's get to Pat in Chicago. Hi, Pat, go ahead.

Judith Human was known as the mother of the disability rights movement, and I encourage people go online and look up some of these videos of her. It's pretty amazing to watch. We'll be right back with more of the middle. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. In this hour, we're asking you what improvements are still needed in society for people with disabilities, thirty five years after the Americans with Disabilities Act was signed into law. You can call us at eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four four six four three three five three. My guess are Wall Street Journal columnist Colin Borscher's and Alicia Anderson, a disability and inclusion advocate and speaker. The phone lines are full, So let's get to Pat in Chicago. Hi, Pat, go ahead.

Yeah, I represent a blind person. I'm a lawyer, and he was trying to get the right to circulate petitions for candidates and for issues, referendum issues digitally. During COVID, that number of states allowed that for everybody, but they wouldn't allow it for people with disabilities or folks who couldn't get out in the street corner. And whether it's a wheelchair of they're blind, they under the law they couldn't witness the signature the old fashioned way or the conventional way. So digital signatures worked for buying a house or your health records else, but they don't seem to work for politics, and it really excludes lots and lots of people with disabilities from being able to participate fully in our government.

Yeah, I represent a blind person. I'm a lawyer, and he was trying to get the right to circulate petitions for candidates and for issues, referendum issues digitally. During COVID, that number of states allowed that for everybody, but they wouldn't allow it for people with disabilities or folks who couldn't get out in the street corner. And whether it's a wheelchair of they're blind, they under the law they couldn't witness the signature the old fashioned way or the conventional way. So digital signatures worked for buying a house or your health records else, but they don't seem to work for politics, and it really excludes lots and lots of people with disabilities from being able to participate fully in our government.

Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up, Pat, because I have a very good friend who is blind, and I've been with him at you know, buying a coffee and he's got to basically trust the cashier if he uses a credit card to charge him the right amount. He can't see what's showing up on that screen. You know, does your client have other issues besides this about circulating petitions.

Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up, Pat, because I have a very good friend who is blind, and I've been with him at you know, buying a coffee and he's got to basically trust the cashier if he uses a credit card to charge him the right amount. He can't see what's showing up on that screen. You know, does your client have other issues besides this about circulating petitions.

Well, he's head of an organization center for independent living and he has a huge database that he communicates with all the time of people with disabilities. But when it comes to putting a candidate on the ballot by signing a petition, putting a referendum issue on the ballot, the law as it currently exists requires a wet signature that you must personally witness, which is impossible if you're fine. And the law can be changed. What they did in Massachusetts, New Jersey and Maryland during covid IS they allowed everybody to have digital signatures and it turned out to be more secure than the old fashioned way of what signatures. And here in Illinois, we ought to have the same opportunity for people with disabilities. And it's not just blind folks. It could be somebody who can't get out in a street corner and gets frightensures, but they communicate with their own digital database about an issue or a candidate they believe it.

Well, he's head of an organization center for independent living and he has a huge database that he communicates with all the time of people with disabilities. But when it comes to putting a candidate on the ballot by signing a petition, putting a referendum issue on the ballot, the law as it currently exists requires a wet signature that you must personally witness, which is impossible if you're fine. And the law can be changed. What they did in Massachusetts, New Jersey and Maryland during covid IS they allowed everybody to have digital signatures and it turned out to be more secure than the old fashioned way of what signatures. And here in Illinois, we ought to have the same opportunity for people with disabilities. And it's not just blind folks. It could be somebody who can't get out in a street corner and gets frightensures, but they communicate with their own digital database about an issue or a candidate they believe it.

Pat thank you very much for that, And callum, I'm going to come to you and mention also that we are a country that doesn't make our dollar bills different sizes so that people who can't see what's on them. Like other countries, like the euro you know, you get a five euro bill and a twenty and they're different sizes. We don't do that in this country. What about that?

Pat thank you very much for that, And callum, I'm going to come to you and mention also that we are a country that doesn't make our dollar bills different sizes so that people who can't see what's on them. Like other countries, like the euro you know, you get a five euro bill and a twenty and they're different sizes. We don't do that in this country. What about that?

It's a good question. I didn't really know much about this year, I mean until I started looking into it this week. And the US Bureau of Engraving has taken a different approach to this. They're apparently developing I guess what we'd call like a braille currency, like you know, raised tactile bills, but we're not expecting the first one to come out until twenty twenty six. The first ten dollars note is on schedule for next.

It's a good question. I didn't really know much about this year, I mean until I started looking into it this week. And the US Bureau of Engraving has taken a different approach to this. They're apparently developing I guess what we'd call like a braille currency, like you know, raised tactile bills, but we're not expecting the first one to come out until twenty twenty six. The first ten dollars note is on schedule for next.

Year, apparently.

Year, apparently.

In the meanwhile, though, the Bureau Engraving and Printing has distributed more than one hundred thousand currency readers. They say this is like a standalone device the people who are visually impaired can use to read bills in the absence of something tactile. And they've also just as of March of this year, they've also got this mobile app with almost two hundred thousand downloads that basically turns your smartphone into a currency reader as well. So they're going with a more digital, high tech solution. I guess you can say, then the enlarged note itself.

In the meanwhile, though, the Bureau Engraving and Printing has distributed more than one hundred thousand currency readers. They say this is like a standalone device the people who are visually impaired can use to read bills in the absence of something tactile. And they've also just as of March of this year, they've also got this mobile app with almost two hundred thousand downloads that basically turns your smartphone into a currency reader as well. So they're going with a more digital, high tech solution. I guess you can say, then the enlarged note itself.

Another caller from Chicago, that's not the Pope, but Allegra is with one of this with that's from Chicago.

Another caller from Chicago, that's not the Pope, but Allegra is with one of this with that's from Chicago.

Allegra, go ahead, okay, well, thank you so much for your piece.

Allegra, go ahead, okay, well, thank you so much for your piece.

I'm really glad that we're talking about this. I'm a special education feacher.

I'm really glad that we're talking about this. I'm a special education feacher.

I have been for over.

I have been for over.

Twenty years, and one of the things I was thinking might be helpful for people to know is that something that we can do, just as to the things in neighbors, if we're able, is to shovel the entire.

Twenty years, and one of the things I was thinking might be helpful for people to know is that something that we can do, just as to the things in neighbors, if we're able, is to shovel the entire.

Sidewalk during the winter.

Sidewalk during the winter.

Sometimes people just shovel like what their shovel holds, which is about half the sidewalk. But if you're a real user, that doesn't help you get down the street and it helps you stay in bound.

Sometimes people just shovel like what their shovel holds, which is about half the sidewalk. But if you're a real user, that doesn't help you get down the street and it helps you stay in bound.

So it doesn't really have to do with policy or anything, but it's just something that I always wish we would do. And also to look out to the curb cuts, like if you're shoveling and you live by the road, or are you just like getting exercise in the winter, like to check out your curve cuts and think about because a person using a wheelchair get down the street.

So it doesn't really have to do with policy or anything, but it's just something that I always wish we would do. And also to look out to the curb cuts, like if you're shoveling and you live by the road, or are you just like getting exercise in the winter, like to check out your curve cuts and think about because a person using a wheelchair get down the street.

In the wind right.

In the wind right.

Yeah, Aligra, thank you, thank you for bringing that up. Alicia. I mean, you you live on the West coast, so you probably don't have to deal with snow, but I'm sure this has come up in your conversations as an advocate.

Yeah, Aligra, thank you, thank you for bringing that up. Alicia. I mean, you you live on the West coast, so you probably don't have to deal with snow, but I'm sure this has come up in your conversations as an advocate.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I think to her point is, let's be aware of our environment and what the collective is kind of going through and navigating, and how do we make the world work again more universally that we're thinking about creating paths that work right, whether it's shoveling snow or you know, creating universal access somewhere.

I mean, I think to her point is, let's be aware of our environment and what the collective is kind of going through and navigating, and how do we make the world work again more universally that we're thinking about creating paths that work right, whether it's shoveling snow or you know, creating universal access somewhere.

I lived in Europe and did a master's program over there, and that's where.

I lived in Europe and did a master's program over there, and that's where.

I really learned how to come together collaboratively and find paths to access when accessibility was very, very limited, and it takes someone like this woman.

I really learned how to come together collaboratively and find paths to access when accessibility was very, very limited, and it takes someone like this woman.

I'm so sorry, I don't remember your name.

I'm so sorry, I don't remember your name.

I apologize, but you know, Allegra seeing something and then also like on the disabled person's perspective, like how do we come together and find a path forward that works and so like that was a perfect example of just being aware of environments that might be limiting and how can we, like as a community, solve for problems.

I apologize, but you know, Allegra seeing something and then also like on the disabled person's perspective, like how do we come together and find a path forward that works and so like that was a perfect example of just being aware of environments that might be limiting and how can we, like as a community, solve for problems.

Jonah is calling from Kimberly, Wisconsin. Hi, Jonah, what do you think could be done to make things better for people with disabilities?

Jonah is calling from Kimberly, Wisconsin. Hi, Jonah, what do you think could be done to make things better for people with disabilities?

Hi?

Hi?

There, thanks for having me on. I think that in general, human beings are looked at their value was determined by how much money they canvert, how many hours they can work. I think that's a really awful way to look at all of humanity, and it's one of the big reasons why disabled people people are looking down upon because they have a harder time working in most you know, in most jobs. But we shouldn't judge people solely for the capital that they produce. We are human beings, you know. So I think that the billionaire grindset, mindset, all all that junk. I think it's one of the main reasons that we don't treat disabled people very well.

There, thanks for having me on. I think that in general, human beings are looked at their value was determined by how much money they canvert, how many hours they can work. I think that's a really awful way to look at all of humanity, and it's one of the big reasons why disabled people people are looking down upon because they have a harder time working in most you know, in most jobs. But we shouldn't judge people solely for the capital that they produce. We are human beings, you know. So I think that the billionaire grindset, mindset, all all that junk. I think it's one of the main reasons that we don't treat disabled people very well.

Hmm interesting, callum, what do you think about that?

Hmm interesting, callum, what do you think about that?

I think Jonah makes a great point. I think the second piece of it two though, is that we also sometimes underestimate, you know what, that that ability is.

I think Jonah makes a great point. I think the second piece of it two though, is that we also sometimes underestimate, you know what, that that ability is.

Right.

Right.

So the layer I think the Jonah's talking about is, let's not diminish the human value of people who may not you know, air quotes contribute to society right in the way that we conventionally think of it. But also let's look for potential, uh in folks that you may have overlooked in the past.

So the layer I think the Jonah's talking about is, let's not diminish the human value of people who may not you know, air quotes contribute to society right in the way that we conventionally think of it. But also let's look for potential, uh in folks that you may have overlooked in the past.

Right.

Right.

I think that's been one of the pleasant developments, uh, you know, post pandemic again, partly because of the work from home accommodation. I think the company sort of woke up to the reality we saw the employment rate rise for people with disabilities once you took away that by a lot, for a lot of by a lot, you know, of having to get get physically to the office, you know, and it can be small stuff, Jeremy, I mean I'm thinking, you know, like you know, I used to commute to an office every day for example. Yeah, I tell you something like in the winter just done on my body having cerebral palsy, you know, sort of being kind of stiff, and I just don't move as well in the winter, you know, Like that kind of thing can take a little bit of a toll. And so if you have more absences, let's say, or you're not you're not your full energetic self at the office, because you know, you expended a lot of energy just getting there in the first place. I think those are things that we don't always see or think about. And and so when you can make those accommodations like that to make sure that you get the full potential out of somebody who has a disability, I think that's sort of the next level of what Jonah's talking about as.

I think that's been one of the pleasant developments, uh, you know, post pandemic again, partly because of the work from home accommodation. I think the company sort of woke up to the reality we saw the employment rate rise for people with disabilities once you took away that by a lot, for a lot of by a lot, you know, of having to get get physically to the office, you know, and it can be small stuff, Jeremy, I mean I'm thinking, you know, like you know, I used to commute to an office every day for example. Yeah, I tell you something like in the winter just done on my body having cerebral palsy, you know, sort of being kind of stiff, and I just don't move as well in the winter, you know, Like that kind of thing can take a little bit of a toll. And so if you have more absences, let's say, or you're not you're not your full energetic self at the office, because you know, you expended a lot of energy just getting there in the first place. I think those are things that we don't always see or think about. And and so when you can make those accommodations like that to make sure that you get the full potential out of somebody who has a disability, I think that's sort of the next level of what Jonah's talking about as.

Well, let's get to eva. Oh get go ahead.

Well, let's get to eva. Oh get go ahead.

Well, I'm just gonna say, and also keep it in mind that making it the environment more dynamic, and you know, it's not necessarily the disabled person not being able to fully participate. It could be the environment in which is limiting. That's the problem. It's not the disability, it's us needing to be more adaptable and accommodating. I had somebody on my podcast that is neurodiverse, and he's a building AI and he's doing all these amazing things, and he.