Welcome to a special edition of The Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson, and we're going to get away from Washington politics this hour and zoom in on some of the scientific research that's happening in the geographic middle of our country, research that is funded in part by all of US taxpayers, and that's being done to tackle problems that affect all of us. Problems like cancer, which, after heart disease, is the leading cause of death in the United States. Now, treatment for cancer is getting a lot better and more personalized, and Majeet Kazmian, an Associate professor of biochemistry at Purdue University in Indiana, is trying to take all the data and use it to improve cancer treatment even more. He joins us. Now, Majed, welcome to the Middle.

Welcome to a special edition of The Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson, and we're going to get away from Washington politics this hour and zoom in on some of the scientific research that's happening in the geographic middle of our country, research that is funded in part by all of US taxpayers, and that's being done to tackle problems that affect all of us. Problems like cancer, which, after heart disease, is the leading cause of death in the United States. Now, treatment for cancer is getting a lot better and more personalized, and Majeet Kazmian, an Associate professor of biochemistry at Purdue University in Indiana, is trying to take all the data and use it to improve cancer treatment even more. He joins us. Now, Majed, welcome to the Middle.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you for having me.

So when you look at the numbers each year in the United States, there are around two million new cancer diagnoses, around six hundred thousand cancer deaths. There are obviously thousands and thousands of cancer researchers, not just across this country but around the world. Tell us about the piece of the pie that you're looking into with your research.

So when you look at the numbers each year in the United States, there are around two million new cancer diagnoses, around six hundred thousand cancer deaths. There are obviously thousands and thousands of cancer researchers, not just across this country but around the world. Tell us about the piece of the pie that you're looking into with your research.

So our main question was always that how come. Certain patients have exactly the same cancer type, the same stage of cancer, about the same age of patients. Some of them end up having a very good outcome and some of them, unfortunately, have a very poor outcome of the same cancers. And we turn to our computational tools and ask can we identified the differences in these two cases, and hopefully if we could identify those differences, we could potentially have therapeutics that enable to push those poor survivors who are the better response and better so viving ability.

So our main question was always that how come. Certain patients have exactly the same cancer type, the same stage of cancer, about the same age of patients. Some of them end up having a very good outcome and some of them, unfortunately, have a very poor outcome of the same cancers. And we turn to our computational tools and ask can we identified the differences in these two cases, and hopefully if we could identify those differences, we could potentially have therapeutics that enable to push those poor survivors who are the better response and better so viving ability.

So what are the differences that you're looking at? Are these genetic differences or these situational environmental differences?

So what are the differences that you're looking at? Are these genetic differences or these situational environmental differences?

Those are mostly genetic differences and mostly something we call biological passphase that are differentiating these tumor types or tumor that are well responding or tumors that do not respond, or tumors that are end up giving a poor outcome, or tumors that are easier to fight off. And these biological passphase you can think about them as a well organized factory assembly, where the genes are the compartments of this assembly line, providing the raw materials or pushing things towards the final product. And our cells have thousands of these factory lines or the thousands of these biological passphase, and any of them that are dysregulated could cause some cells to grow a little bit more, making it more cancerus or sometimes some cells to grow a little bit less, therefore to be a little bit providing a better response. So then we asked whether or not computer tools could identify these factories or biological passphase that are different between patients that have a poor survival versus those that have a better survival.

Those are mostly genetic differences and mostly something we call biological passphase that are differentiating these tumor types or tumor that are well responding or tumors that do not respond, or tumors that are end up giving a poor outcome, or tumors that are easier to fight off. And these biological passphase you can think about them as a well organized factory assembly, where the genes are the compartments of this assembly line, providing the raw materials or pushing things towards the final product. And our cells have thousands of these factory lines or the thousands of these biological passphase, and any of them that are dysregulated could cause some cells to grow a little bit more, making it more cancerus or sometimes some cells to grow a little bit less, therefore to be a little bit providing a better response. So then we asked whether or not computer tools could identify these factories or biological passphase that are different between patients that have a poor survival versus those that have a better survival.

So basically, in order to help people eventually with their cancer, their cancer diagnosis, and their cancer treatment, you're taking all of this data in and being able to use computer tools to figure out exactly what leads to different outcomes.

So basically, in order to help people eventually with their cancer, their cancer diagnosis, and their cancer treatment, you're taking all of this data in and being able to use computer tools to figure out exactly what leads to different outcomes.

That's exactly right. So identifying those passphase become the key questions. And one of the things that we have found is that there are many tools that are developed over the past three or four decades even to identify these, but none of them are perfect for doing the job. We found that if we combine a few of these tools and optimize them, we could now more precisely identify these factory lines or passphase that go wrong in one condition and could potentially be therapeutically targeted, and.

That's exactly right. So identifying those passphase become the key questions. And one of the things that we have found is that there are many tools that are developed over the past three or four decades even to identify these, but none of them are perfect for doing the job. We found that if we combine a few of these tools and optimize them, we could now more precisely identify these factory lines or passphase that go wrong in one condition and could potentially be therapeutically targeted, and.

You're using artificial intelligence to do this.

You're using artificial intelligence to do this.

In this case, we have used the traditional methods of computational tools to identify them, but our new works will move toward artificial intelligence, and we believe that artificial intelligence would enable us to even better identify drugs to start targeting these passphase that are different.

In this case, we have used the traditional methods of computational tools to identify them, but our new works will move toward artificial intelligence, and we believe that artificial intelligence would enable us to even better identify drugs to start targeting these passphase that are different.

A lot of people when they think about artificial intelligence right now, they're thinking about things like chat GPT, or they're thinking about it as something that is going to very quickly disrupt our entire economy that will get rid of jobs. You see it right now as a good thing for the work that you're doing.

A lot of people when they think about artificial intelligence right now, they're thinking about things like chat GPT, or they're thinking about it as something that is going to very quickly disrupt our entire economy that will get rid of jobs. You see it right now as a good thing for the work that you're doing.

Yes, we see it as something that could be extremely useful for let's say drug repurposing, and the rug repurposing is something as following that we can reuse the drugs that are approved for some different condition and test them in a new settings. For example, a drug that has been used for type two diabetes maybe is great for fighting a specific type of cancer. And now artificial intelligence, by evaluating these biological task phase could say whether or not those are the possibilities and pick out out of thousands of drugs that are already in hand, each of them might be having a better.

Yes, we see it as something that could be extremely useful for let's say drug repurposing, and the rug repurposing is something as following that we can reuse the drugs that are approved for some different condition and test them in a new settings. For example, a drug that has been used for type two diabetes maybe is great for fighting a specific type of cancer. And now artificial intelligence, by evaluating these biological task phase could say whether or not those are the possibilities and pick out out of thousands of drugs that are already in hand, each of them might be having a better.

Use university which also has a big veterinary medicine school. How is that proximity to that school impacted what you're able to do.

Use university which also has a big veterinary medicine school. How is that proximity to that school impacted what you're able to do.

So one of the things that we found from the human cancers was that specifically, some of the human bladder cancers that have for survival outcome would respond well for a new repurpose drug that we identified. So we said, like, all right, Unfortunately, a lot of dog patients get bladder cancers. So the bladder cancer is extremely common.

So one of the things that we found from the human cancers was that specifically, some of the human bladder cancers that have for survival outcome would respond well for a new repurpose drug that we identified. So we said, like, all right, Unfortunately, a lot of dog patients get bladder cancers. So the bladder cancer is extremely common.

In specific breeds of dogs, and we have a few of these dog patients that come to the clinic and they presented with these extremely aggressive bladder cancers.

In specific breeds of dogs, and we have a few of these dog patients that come to the clinic and they presented with these extremely aggressive bladder cancers.

So we had already identified this drug that seems to be working in human bladder cancer settings. We said, like, the dog patients would respond to this, but we can't directly test on that. So we took some of the cell lines from the dog patients that have been stablished at Purdue and treated inside the dish the cells from these K nine species or dog species, and we saw that this drug respond quite well, i e. It could potentially limit the cancer quite well in that setting.

So we had already identified this drug that seems to be working in human bladder cancer settings. We said, like, the dog patients would respond to this, but we can't directly test on that. So we took some of the cell lines from the dog patients that have been stablished at Purdue and treated inside the dish the cells from these K nine species or dog species, and we saw that this drug respond quite well, i e. It could potentially limit the cancer quite well in that setting.

Do you have a dog yourself.

Do you have a dog yourself.

I do have the very tiny yorkey three years old. We adopted him last year, and I could mention that he had his heartworm vagacine on Saturday. He was a little bit down on Saturday, which broke my heart. But it was back on the unhappy and.

I do have the very tiny yorkey three years old. We adopted him last year, and I could mention that he had his heartworm vagacine on Saturday. He was a little bit down on Saturday, which broke my heart. But it was back on the unhappy and.

Now he's turning around. That's good. What kind of an impact do you think. I think your research there at Purdue will eventually be able to have on cancer treatment in the US and around the world.

Now he's turning around. That's good. What kind of an impact do you think. I think your research there at Purdue will eventually be able to have on cancer treatment in the US and around the world.

I think that science in general is a slow process. Every year we have probably made one percent progress in reducing the cancer mortality, and this is an extremely important task. It's a slow process, and everyone who is working in this area has contributions. I hope that some of the drugs that we are identifying could help both dog patients and human patients as well.

I think that science in general is a slow process. Every year we have probably made one percent progress in reducing the cancer mortality, and this is an extremely important task. It's a slow process, and everyone who is working in this area has contributions. I hope that some of the drugs that we are identifying could help both dog patients and human patients as well.

What got you into this line of research.

What got you into this line of research.

I actually had all of my background in computer science right and at that time I had background also in artificial intelligence. And then I got more and more into the biology and I went to pursue my degrees in PhD in bioformatics, and from there I started working on human disease.

I actually had all of my background in computer science right and at that time I had background also in artificial intelligence. And then I got more and more into the biology and I went to pursue my degrees in PhD in bioformatics, and from there I started working on human disease.

It's interesting because I think most people when they hear about somebody who went into computer science would not think that this would be what they would end up working on.

It's interesting because I think most people when they hear about somebody who went into computer science would not think that this would be what they would end up working on.

That's correct, This is not one of the areas that you would probably pick. However, what I would say, computational science as computational life sciences are becoming the reality because one of the largest growing available data are data from the health sciences, from genome sequences, from the things that we had never taught before, and data science in that area with AI could be extremely beneficial.

That's correct, This is not one of the areas that you would probably pick. However, what I would say, computational science as computational life sciences are becoming the reality because one of the largest growing available data are data from the health sciences, from genome sequences, from the things that we had never taught before, and data science in that area with AI could be extremely beneficial.

You know, when I work with people who are younger than me, which I often do, I find that when it comes to technology, they're usually better than I am, and probably the people younger than them will be better than they are. What do you find in terms of how your students at the university look at the kinds of things you're doing. Do you learn from your students about the research that you're doing.

You know, when I work with people who are younger than me, which I often do, I find that when it comes to technology, they're usually better than I am, and probably the people younger than them will be better than they are. What do you find in terms of how your students at the university look at the kinds of things you're doing. Do you learn from your students about the research that you're doing.

Oh, my goodness, every day I learn algorithm a new tool that my students bring to me. I'm constantly amazed and I'm constantly happy to have the next generation that is extremely savvy with the tools at the hand.

Oh, my goodness, every day I learn algorithm a new tool that my students bring to me. I'm constantly amazed and I'm constantly happy to have the next generation that is extremely savvy with the tools at the hand.

Where does the funding come from for what you do?

Where does the funding come from for what you do?

So many of our fundings are from National Institute of Health. We have other fundings that are coming from either Perdue University Purdue Institute for Cancer Research support a lot of research across different cancer type, which is also sponsoring the trial in the god patients with bladder cancer, but National Institute of Health is our main source of funding at them.

So many of our fundings are from National Institute of Health. We have other fundings that are coming from either Perdue University Purdue Institute for Cancer Research support a lot of research across different cancer type, which is also sponsoring the trial in the god patients with bladder cancer, but National Institute of Health is our main source of funding at them.

I want to ask you one more question, just to tie this back to the geographic middle. What does it mean to you to be in the middle of Indiana doing this work.

I want to ask you one more question, just to tie this back to the geographic middle. What does it mean to you to be in the middle of Indiana doing this work.

It's fascinating. Of course. One of the great parts of it is that we have one of the best veterinary school which allows us to basically interact on daily basis with oncologists, and this is something that is extremely unique about Purdue and the environment.

It's fascinating. Of course. One of the great parts of it is that we have one of the best veterinary school which allows us to basically interact on daily basis with oncologists, and this is something that is extremely unique about Purdue and the environment.

Majid kause Emian is an associate professor of biochemistry at Purdue University in Indiana. Thank you so much for joining us.

Majid kause Emian is an associate professor of biochemistry at Purdue University in Indiana. Thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you very much for having me.

Thank you very much for having me.

In a moment, we'll go to Washington University in Saint Louis to talk with one of the world's leading helium experts. It's used in a lot more than birthday balloons, and some of the biggest reserves in the world are right here in the United States. A reminder, The Middle is available as a podcast in partnership with iHeart Podcasts on the iHeart app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Don't go anywhere. There's more ahead on the middle. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. If you're just tuning. In the Middle is usually a national call in show focused on elevating voices from the middle politically, geographically, philosophically, or maybe you just want to meet in the middle. But this hour we're taking a break from Washington politics to focus instead on some of the cutting edge scientific research that's being done in the geographic middle of our country. And did you know that the geographic middle of our country has some of the biggest helium reserves in the world. Yes, helium, which is used for a lot more than just party balloons. And that parade that's happening.

In a moment, we'll go to Washington University in Saint Louis to talk with one of the world's leading helium experts. It's used in a lot more than birthday balloons, and some of the biggest reserves in the world are right here in the United States. A reminder, The Middle is available as a podcast in partnership with iHeart Podcasts on the iHeart app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Don't go anywhere. There's more ahead on the middle. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. If you're just tuning. In the Middle is usually a national call in show focused on elevating voices from the middle politically, geographically, philosophically, or maybe you just want to meet in the middle. But this hour we're taking a break from Washington politics to focus instead on some of the cutting edge scientific research that's being done in the geographic middle of our country. And did you know that the geographic middle of our country has some of the biggest helium reserves in the world. Yes, helium, which is used for a lot more than just party balloons. And that parade that's happening.

Next week, but never quite the same way.

Next week, but never quite the same way.

And I think we're about to see him, soo okay, it's Snoopy Beagle Scout Snoopy Prue Thatt. Helium is critical to the function of MRI machines and even space rockets. One of the leading experts on helium is Sophia Hayes, professor of chemistry at Washington University in Saint Louis. Sofia, welcome to the middle.

And I think we're about to see him, soo okay, it's Snoopy Beagle Scout Snoopy Prue Thatt. Helium is critical to the function of MRI machines and even space rockets. One of the leading experts on helium is Sophia Hayes, professor of chemistry at Washington University in Saint Louis. Sofia, welcome to the middle.

Hey, thank you for having me here.

Hey, thank you for having me here.

So let's talk about helium. I think when a lot of people think about helium, they think about balloons, and maybe it's like either filling up a balloon or taking the air out of the balloon and making yourself talk really in a high pitched voice. But it is so much more important than that in our modern age.

So let's talk about helium. I think when a lot of people think about helium, they think about balloons, and maybe it's like either filling up a balloon or taking the air out of the balloon and making yourself talk really in a high pitched voice. But it is so much more important than that in our modern age.

Think of helium as kind of a sustaining chemical, a sustaining liquid for a bunch of us. When it's in its liquid form, it's extremely cold, and it allows us to cool materials that then form the insides of things like MRI magnets, and so in the absence of helium, we would have a big challenge about having MRI imaging, you know, magnetic resonance imaging for medical applications. A number of us in science use it. There are machines that are cousins of those MRI imaging machines in every research chemistry department across the United States in industries. So yeah, it's a really important thing for us.

Think of helium as kind of a sustaining chemical, a sustaining liquid for a bunch of us. When it's in its liquid form, it's extremely cold, and it allows us to cool materials that then form the insides of things like MRI magnets, and so in the absence of helium, we would have a big challenge about having MRI imaging, you know, magnetic resonance imaging for medical applications. A number of us in science use it. There are machines that are cousins of those MRI imaging machines in every research chemistry department across the United States in industries. So yeah, it's a really important thing for us.

In space exploration too.

In space exploration too.

Yeah, so that's one that you wouldn't expect when you see those rockets, you know, flying into the air to deliver a satellite, you know, a GPS unit or something like that. Basically, those rocket engines, which are generically called lifting applications, those have hydrogen and oxygen a couple of also liquid fuels that burn and combust to form that flame. But it turns out heliums at the top of that engine to push those gases out, and so today rocket engines really require that helium also, So lifting applications are another big area.

Yeah, so that's one that you wouldn't expect when you see those rockets, you know, flying into the air to deliver a satellite, you know, a GPS unit or something like that. Basically, those rocket engines, which are generically called lifting applications, those have hydrogen and oxygen a couple of also liquid fuels that burn and combust to form that flame. But it turns out heliums at the top of that engine to push those gases out, and so today rocket engines really require that helium also, So lifting applications are another big area.

So helium is not renewable. Are we in a shortage or are we at risk of a shortage?

So helium is not renewable. Are we in a shortage or are we at risk of a shortage?

When you say it's not renewable, what we mean by that is that it is it escapes into outer space. So what we release goes up out through the atmosphere. It is unreactive, meaning as an atom, it doesn't really pair with other things, and so it floats out into outer space to be lost forever. Now, we're making a little bit of helium and atom at a time, but it's a very slow process, and so are we in a shortage situation? So that's interesting because some of the people listening to the show might be aware that they weren't able to get helium for party balloons at times. There have been four major supply shocks over the past two decades, and part of this is just because we used to have a really big storage container in the ground, a big rock formation, and it was called the US Strategic Helium Reserve, and it was recently privatized.

When you say it's not renewable, what we mean by that is that it is it escapes into outer space. So what we release goes up out through the atmosphere. It is unreactive, meaning as an atom, it doesn't really pair with other things, and so it floats out into outer space to be lost forever. Now, we're making a little bit of helium and atom at a time, but it's a very slow process, and so are we in a shortage situation? So that's interesting because some of the people listening to the show might be aware that they weren't able to get helium for party balloons at times. There have been four major supply shocks over the past two decades, and part of this is just because we used to have a really big storage container in the ground, a big rock formation, and it was called the US Strategic Helium Reserve, and it was recently privatized.

It was sold off to a commercial entity.

It was sold off to a commercial entity.

So what happens to that big container is uncertain, Its future is uncertain. So this has thrown the resource, the supply of helium, it's price, and all sorts of other things into a bit of chaos.

So what happens to that big container is uncertain, Its future is uncertain. So this has thrown the resource, the supply of helium, it's price, and all sorts of other things into a bit of chaos.

So what's the focus of your work when it comes to helium.

So what's the focus of your work when it comes to helium.

Well, yeah, so two things. One is, I'm in an area related to lots of the quantum science and engineering things that you hear about that are coming out from the US government. Mine in particular involves looking at the interaction between electrons who have a property called spin, and the surrounding nuclei. And it turns out that with lasers, I can point the electrons in one direction.

Well, yeah, so two things. One is, I'm in an area related to lots of the quantum science and engineering things that you hear about that are coming out from the US government. Mine in particular involves looking at the interaction between electrons who have a property called spin, and the surrounding nuclei. And it turns out that with lasers, I can point the electrons in one direction.

I can we call it orientation.

I can we call it orientation.

When we orient those electrons, it turns out the influence the atoms that are nearby, and when those atoms have another spin, a nuclear spin, that we can couple those two things together. It's like one feels what the other one is doing. Now, that's only true when you cool down the matter to the coldest temperatures, in part because when you sort of shake things and you'll vibrations, it ruins some of those effects. Let me give you an analogy. Picture a spinning top. You know those really beautiful ones that spin and spin forever. So if you start shaking the surface that that spinning top is moving on, you know that the spin's going to go crazy. It's that the top is going to sort of, you know, get chaotic in its motion and topple over. But it spins longer if it's on a very still table. So the helium is what gives us that stillness, and so I can see that property of that top that's spinning, for example, for a longer time, or it does some really interesting acrobatics that would be messed up if I shook the surface on which it was traveling.

When we orient those electrons, it turns out the influence the atoms that are nearby, and when those atoms have another spin, a nuclear spin, that we can couple those two things together. It's like one feels what the other one is doing. Now, that's only true when you cool down the matter to the coldest temperatures, in part because when you sort of shake things and you'll vibrations, it ruins some of those effects. Let me give you an analogy. Picture a spinning top. You know those really beautiful ones that spin and spin forever. So if you start shaking the surface that that spinning top is moving on, you know that the spin's going to go crazy. It's that the top is going to sort of, you know, get chaotic in its motion and topple over. But it spins longer if it's on a very still table. So the helium is what gives us that stillness, and so I can see that property of that top that's spinning, for example, for a longer time, or it does some really interesting acrobatics that would be messed up if I shook the surface on which it was traveling.

So that's one way to think about it.

So that's one way to think about it.

And what is the practical application of that.

And what is the practical application of that.

Yeah, so people are trying to do these kinds of interactions to look at new regimes in quantum science. So sometimes you hear about quantum computing or the entanglement of different energy states, and so these are some exotic phenomena that can lead to new types of devices. You hear about it in the areas of encryption. There are new ways of sensing phenomena that we we are sort of missing today. So if we created sensors that are sensitive to these quantum effects, then we might have entirely new detectors. And so this is an area that a lot of physicists, a handful of chemists, and a lot of engineers are exploring to look at these new applications.

Yeah, so people are trying to do these kinds of interactions to look at new regimes in quantum science. So sometimes you hear about quantum computing or the entanglement of different energy states, and so these are some exotic phenomena that can lead to new types of devices. You hear about it in the areas of encryption. There are new ways of sensing phenomena that we we are sort of missing today. So if we created sensors that are sensitive to these quantum effects, then we might have entirely new detectors. And so this is an area that a lot of physicists, a handful of chemists, and a lot of engineers are exploring to look at these new applications.

Now I understand your research also looks at carbon capture, which is seen as a way to combat climate change. Is that connected to the study of helium or is the storage of carbon similar to the way that we store helium. Oh?

Now I understand your research also looks at carbon capture, which is seen as a way to combat climate change. Is that connected to the study of helium or is the storage of carbon similar to the way that we store helium. Oh?

Yeah, So it's taking the let's say, the less exotic physics route and using those MRI like instruments that are cooled by liquid helium, using those high magnetic fields in order to interrogate what's happening in carbon capture. So carbon capture is where you take CO two, sometimes out of the air or sometimes out of a flu stack, you know, at a power plant, and what you want is you want to have that CO two molecule carbon dioxide stick to something. It turns out that's a little bit hard to do because it's a very stable molecule. So we have to work pretty hard to get the chemistry right to get it to stick and then maybe release it later when we want to squeeze it out, or maybe it'll become something else. CO two convert either into bicarbonate, something you can think of in baking soda sodium bicarbonate, or even all the way to the end of the line, which is a carbonate, which is sort of the material of coral or chalk. Calcium carbonate is one example. So we want CO two to go along that pathway, and so the materials that can do that sometimes need a way to You need a way to look and interrogate what the reaction is. So a great way to do that is through this direction that we take using spectroscopy using magnetic resonance to figure out what the structures are that are associated and in part why my technique of magnetic resonance is ideal is it doesn't need to be crystalline. It can look at mixtures of solids and liquids and gases, and all of that is enabled by having helium to make that cold, cold material that lets us have high magnetic fields. And that's the basis for these interrogations.

Yeah, So it's taking the let's say, the less exotic physics route and using those MRI like instruments that are cooled by liquid helium, using those high magnetic fields in order to interrogate what's happening in carbon capture. So carbon capture is where you take CO two, sometimes out of the air or sometimes out of a flu stack, you know, at a power plant, and what you want is you want to have that CO two molecule carbon dioxide stick to something. It turns out that's a little bit hard to do because it's a very stable molecule. So we have to work pretty hard to get the chemistry right to get it to stick and then maybe release it later when we want to squeeze it out, or maybe it'll become something else. CO two convert either into bicarbonate, something you can think of in baking soda sodium bicarbonate, or even all the way to the end of the line, which is a carbonate, which is sort of the material of coral or chalk. Calcium carbonate is one example. So we want CO two to go along that pathway, and so the materials that can do that sometimes need a way to You need a way to look and interrogate what the reaction is. So a great way to do that is through this direction that we take using spectroscopy using magnetic resonance to figure out what the structures are that are associated and in part why my technique of magnetic resonance is ideal is it doesn't need to be crystalline. It can look at mixtures of solids and liquids and gases, and all of that is enabled by having helium to make that cold, cold material that lets us have high magnetic fields. And that's the basis for these interrogations.

Do you see carbon capture as a really important part of the puzzle in terms of solving climate change or dealing with the effects of climate change?

Do you see carbon capture as a really important part of the puzzle in terms of solving climate change or dealing with the effects of climate change?

I personally do yes, and I think many of my colleagues would agree. You know, we want to get to a time and a place where we have alternate sources of energy. But there's a high concentration of CO two in the atmosphere. If we had ways to do what's called direct to air capture to remove it from the air and then reduce that high concentration, then we would have hopefully less of a greenhouse gas effect.

I personally do yes, and I think many of my colleagues would agree. You know, we want to get to a time and a place where we have alternate sources of energy. But there's a high concentration of CO two in the atmosphere. If we had ways to do what's called direct to air capture to remove it from the air and then reduce that high concentration, then we would have hopefully less of a greenhouse gas effect.

So these technologies already exist today.

So these technologies already exist today.

It's just that they're slightly expensive and because there isn't a general you know, let's say a.

It's just that they're slightly expensive and because there isn't a general you know, let's say a.

Lot of political will to do this.

Lot of political will to do this.

Yet, there hasn't been a lot of buy in. But those technologies do exist, and many, many scientists and engineers are working on this worldwide, and so I think that it's just a matter of time, and what these technologies enable us to do is clean up the atmosphere that we have. It also says it's hard to get away from combustion of hydrocarbons as an energy source. We're kind of no, we're adhering to it. In the transportation sector, we might find alternatives with batteries and so on, but ultimately there is this need, and it's even a need in industries like the cement industry, for example, is very energy intensive. The manufacturing of steel is energy intensive. So we will always have a need for that kind of cleanup. And so it's just a scrubbing, a filtering type of thing that you know, is an enabling technology.

Yet, there hasn't been a lot of buy in. But those technologies do exist, and many, many scientists and engineers are working on this worldwide, and so I think that it's just a matter of time, and what these technologies enable us to do is clean up the atmosphere that we have. It also says it's hard to get away from combustion of hydrocarbons as an energy source. We're kind of no, we're adhering to it. In the transportation sector, we might find alternatives with batteries and so on, but ultimately there is this need, and it's even a need in industries like the cement industry, for example, is very energy intensive. The manufacturing of steel is energy intensive. So we will always have a need for that kind of cleanup. And so it's just a scrubbing, a filtering type of thing that you know, is an enabling technology.

I have to say, I have a heat pump now, and if my heat pump can figure out a way to get cold out of the air and put it into my house, or heat out of the air and put it into my house, I'm sure we can figure out a way to grab the carbon.

I have to say, I have a heat pump now, and if my heat pump can figure out a way to get cold out of the air and put it into my house, or heat out of the air and put it into my house, I'm sure we can figure out a way to grab the carbon.

I know that we already have figured it out. It's just a way to make it less costly. And you know, heat pumps are a great analogy. They've been around for decades, and we're seeing more and more uptake of those as the technology gets a little bit better, the engineering gets a little cheaper, and so, you know, it's great to see new technologies out in the market.

I know that we already have figured it out. It's just a way to make it less costly. And you know, heat pumps are a great analogy. They've been around for decades, and we're seeing more and more uptake of those as the technology gets a little bit better, the engineering gets a little cheaper, and so, you know, it's great to see new technologies out in the market.

So you mentioned you know that the level of helium that's available goes up and down. How does that affect your ability to do your research?

So you mentioned you know that the level of helium that's available goes up and down. How does that affect your ability to do your research?

Yeah, so it's incredibly stressful for researchers, I will, I will admit. And so what it says is it's kind of like being a rancher on a far you need water to sustain your herd of cattle, let's say. And these are very expensive, million dollar pieces of equipment that in the absence of helium will crash. In essence, it will change the state of matter and therefore it may not be a magnet after it warms up. And yes, you could try to cool it down again, but there's no guarantee that it will return. So it's stressful because we have to make sure that we have helium accessible every few weeks, every few months in some cases, depending on the age of the magnet. And so new innovations are coming into the marketplace to recycle the helium which are very encouraging. There's a learning curve for those, and they are a little bit expensive on the front end, but I think that we're finding alternatives both to what the magnet is made up of, you know, the materials. Maybe we could have materials that don't need liquid helium. There are promising new developments to use liquid nitrogen as a cooling agent, but they have to be entirely new designs, entirely new materials, and so I think that it is stressful, but there's still hopeful steps in the direction to avoid helium. Because again, as you as we said at the top of the program, every time we release those helium gases into the atmosphere, it's gone, and so you know, having a long term supply is really important.

Yeah, so it's incredibly stressful for researchers, I will, I will admit. And so what it says is it's kind of like being a rancher on a far you need water to sustain your herd of cattle, let's say. And these are very expensive, million dollar pieces of equipment that in the absence of helium will crash. In essence, it will change the state of matter and therefore it may not be a magnet after it warms up. And yes, you could try to cool it down again, but there's no guarantee that it will return. So it's stressful because we have to make sure that we have helium accessible every few weeks, every few months in some cases, depending on the age of the magnet. And so new innovations are coming into the marketplace to recycle the helium which are very encouraging. There's a learning curve for those, and they are a little bit expensive on the front end, but I think that we're finding alternatives both to what the magnet is made up of, you know, the materials. Maybe we could have materials that don't need liquid helium. There are promising new developments to use liquid nitrogen as a cooling agent, but they have to be entirely new designs, entirely new materials, and so I think that it is stressful, but there's still hopeful steps in the direction to avoid helium. Because again, as you as we said at the top of the program, every time we release those helium gases into the atmosphere, it's gone, and so you know, having a long term supply is really important.

What got you interested in this in the first.

What got you interested in this in the first.

Place, Well, I was a young faculty member beating multiple magnets and then doing low temperature experiments, you know, at for kelvin and so it's roughly the temperature of outer space. So I was using extraordinary amounts of helium. And then a few of these price shocks, the price started going up, the supply started getting more and more difficult to acquire, and I'm at a private institution Washington University, that turns out to have a lot of a large footprint in the helium market. And what I mean by is that when shortages happened, there were enough of us around that we could maybe use a little less.

Place, Well, I was a young faculty member beating multiple magnets and then doing low temperature experiments, you know, at for kelvin and so it's roughly the temperature of outer space. So I was using extraordinary amounts of helium. And then a few of these price shocks, the price started going up, the supply started getting more and more difficult to acquire, and I'm at a private institution Washington University, that turns out to have a lot of a large footprint in the helium market. And what I mean by is that when shortages happened, there were enough of us around that we could maybe use a little less.

So what is your great hope about what you will be able to you know, when you eventually retire, what will you be able to say I did this.

So what is your great hope about what you will be able to you know, when you eventually retire, what will you be able to say I did this.

Well, certainly in carbon capture and in things like these quantum science areas. I'm always hoping that we can inspire the next generation to continue that work. I'm you know, standing on the shoulders of other giants, let's say, who've really helped facilitate a lot of that research. And I hope we've made steps to really further the research mission. And then in the helium space, I think there's a couple of things. One is that I'm a scientist, but I can also use some of these skills to help the public understand better what these needs are for the scientific community, because you know, we're scattered throughout the United States where you know, one or two professors at each institution as opposed to a nice solid lobbying block. And I think the other thing is you know, helium is an incredibly magical element. If you thought about being a Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's court and bringing a balloon and that would float, that would be like incredible, you know, a spectacle. And we're so fortunate to have this thing that we kind of take for granted because it shows up at so many parties. And so if we look at that balloon and realize that that is millions upon millions of years of formation of helium, one atom at a time, and then to think, this is this precious item and it should be a luxury meaning that we have that we see it for what it is, is this thing of beauty. And I think that I hope at the end of my career that people will look at helium differently. They'll recycle it, they'll try to capture every bit that they can, because we want it to be around in one hundred or two hundred years so that we can continue to have MRI instruments and kids' birthday parties.

Well, certainly in carbon capture and in things like these quantum science areas. I'm always hoping that we can inspire the next generation to continue that work. I'm you know, standing on the shoulders of other giants, let's say, who've really helped facilitate a lot of that research. And I hope we've made steps to really further the research mission. And then in the helium space, I think there's a couple of things. One is that I'm a scientist, but I can also use some of these skills to help the public understand better what these needs are for the scientific community, because you know, we're scattered throughout the United States where you know, one or two professors at each institution as opposed to a nice solid lobbying block. And I think the other thing is you know, helium is an incredibly magical element. If you thought about being a Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's court and bringing a balloon and that would float, that would be like incredible, you know, a spectacle. And we're so fortunate to have this thing that we kind of take for granted because it shows up at so many parties. And so if we look at that balloon and realize that that is millions upon millions of years of formation of helium, one atom at a time, and then to think, this is this precious item and it should be a luxury meaning that we have that we see it for what it is, is this thing of beauty. And I think that I hope at the end of my career that people will look at helium differently. They'll recycle it, they'll try to capture every bit that they can, because we want it to be around in one hundred or two hundred years so that we can continue to have MRI instruments and kids' birthday parties.

Well, why did it become so associated with kid's birthday parties? Why isn't it seen as a luxury. Why is it more likely to be found at party city than you know, you know I fault somewhere.

Well, why did it become so associated with kid's birthday parties? Why isn't it seen as a luxury. Why is it more likely to be found at party city than you know, you know I fault somewhere.

I think it's because, you know, we've lived in a time of plenty Others have commented on this that we have so much abundance and not realizing that one day it's going to run out.

I think it's because, you know, we've lived in a time of plenty Others have commented on this that we have so much abundance and not realizing that one day it's going to run out.

I mean, we've gone through oil.

I mean, we've gone through oil.

Shocks for those of us who've lived through eras of not having enough gasoline, or when you know, Persian Gulf conflicts lead to sort of a cessation of shipping. Those kinds of shortages have informed us and the helium one, well, you know, you can always forego some balloons at a party, but researchers an MRI instrument, folks, and semiconductor lines, and it turns out rockets and other things we can't forego that helium. And so in these it just says this is a precious commodity and knowing that we should conserve it means that there's an opportunity to innovate in that space.

Shocks for those of us who've lived through eras of not having enough gasoline, or when you know, Persian Gulf conflicts lead to sort of a cessation of shipping. Those kinds of shortages have informed us and the helium one, well, you know, you can always forego some balloons at a party, but researchers an MRI instrument, folks, and semiconductor lines, and it turns out rockets and other things we can't forego that helium. And so in these it just says this is a precious commodity and knowing that we should conserve it means that there's an opportunity to innovate in that space.

Is most of your funding for your research coming from the federal government?

Is most of your funding for your research coming from the federal government?

Yes, almost exclusively National Science Foundation, some from the Department of Energy, And that's pretty typical for people in this area that spans you know, physics and chemistry, and.

Yes, almost exclusively National Science Foundation, some from the Department of Energy, And that's pretty typical for people in this area that spans you know, physics and chemistry, and.

What has kept you at Washington University. What do you find that you're able to do there, especially in this area of research, that has made you decide to stay.

What has kept you at Washington University. What do you find that you're able to do there, especially in this area of research, that has made you decide to stay.

Washington University is very closely associated with magnetic resonance. In my particular area. I would argue two of the biggest revolutions in this area have come through senior colleagues here. So it's kept me here in part because the students are amazing and it turns out Saint Louis is a great place to live.

Washington University is very closely associated with magnetic resonance. In my particular area. I would argue two of the biggest revolutions in this area have come through senior colleagues here. So it's kept me here in part because the students are amazing and it turns out Saint Louis is a great place to live.

Well, let's end on that point. The students. What do you learn from your students as you do your work. Give me an example of something where a student has come in with an idea that you've been like, wow, oh you know what, let's let's explore that a little bit.

Well, let's end on that point. The students. What do you learn from your students as you do your work. Give me an example of something where a student has come in with an idea that you've been like, wow, oh you know what, let's let's explore that a little bit.

You know it's it's actually every nearly every student in my research group. I have to say that this happened to me as a grad student and I can reflect on it. So I have regularly told my grad students when they come to me with an idea, they'll come and propose something. I'll say, wow, that sounds really hard. I don't think it's gonna work. And what they do is they run off and they don't take my advice, fortunately, and then they go ahead.

You know it's it's actually every nearly every student in my research group. I have to say that this happened to me as a grad student and I can reflect on it. So I have regularly told my grad students when they come to me with an idea, they'll come and propose something. I'll say, wow, that sounds really hard. I don't think it's gonna work. And what they do is they run off and they don't take my advice, fortunately, and then they go ahead.

They do the experiment anyway.

They do the experiment anyway.

And I can think of nearly every student that has happened at least once they've tackled something on their own. And every time I am bursting with pride that students have had the boldness and the creativity to go against my you know, let's say, hard won wisdom of years and years to prove me wrong. And I when they graduate, this is often the story I tell about each of them about how, you know, it's this slightly self de precating or poking fun at myself story, but it's actually this moment of incredible pride that it says, youth always wins out over.

And I can think of nearly every student that has happened at least once they've tackled something on their own. And every time I am bursting with pride that students have had the boldness and the creativity to go against my you know, let's say, hard won wisdom of years and years to prove me wrong. And I when they graduate, this is often the story I tell about each of them about how, you know, it's this slightly self de precating or poking fun at myself story, but it's actually this moment of incredible pride that it says, youth always wins out over.

Let's say the elder folks.

Let's say the elder folks.

And even though I can bring that wisdom to the table, we've made some incredible discoveries. And that is almost always driven by some of the grad students and some postdocs having these really cool ideas that are crazy.

And even though I can bring that wisdom to the table, we've made some incredible discoveries. And that is almost always driven by some of the grad students and some postdocs having these really cool ideas that are crazy.

That is Sophia Hayes, Professor of chemistry at Washington University in Saint Louis. Thank you so much for joining us and telling us so much about helium.

That is Sophia Hayes, Professor of chemistry at Washington University in Saint Louis. Thank you so much for joining us and telling us so much about helium.

Well, thanks for having me, and really thanks for shining a light on this incredibly important resource of ours.

Well, thanks for having me, and really thanks for shining a light on this incredibly important resource of ours.

A reminder that The Middle is available as a podcast in partnership with iHeart Podcasts on the iHeart app or wherever you listen to podcasts. In a moment, we'll meet our third and final guest, who's trying to figure out what causes Alzheimer's disease and cognitive decline in the elderly. Stay with us more than Middle coming up. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobbs. In this hour, we're taking a break from politics to explore some of the cutting edge scientific research that's being done in the geographic middle of our country. Our final guest has spent years studying a disease that more than six million Americans have that would be Alzheimer's. The cognitive disease chips away at a person's memory and thinking skills and is particularly difficult and emotionally tasking for those who treat and care for people with Alzheimer's. There's a search for a treatment and a cure, but Joanne Schantz, a clinical neuropsychologist and professor at Utah State University, is also trying to figure out what we can do to avoid getting it in the first place. Joanne, Welcome to the middle.

A reminder that The Middle is available as a podcast in partnership with iHeart Podcasts on the iHeart app or wherever you listen to podcasts. In a moment, we'll meet our third and final guest, who's trying to figure out what causes Alzheimer's disease and cognitive decline in the elderly. Stay with us more than Middle coming up. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobbs. In this hour, we're taking a break from politics to explore some of the cutting edge scientific research that's being done in the geographic middle of our country. Our final guest has spent years studying a disease that more than six million Americans have that would be Alzheimer's. The cognitive disease chips away at a person's memory and thinking skills and is particularly difficult and emotionally tasking for those who treat and care for people with Alzheimer's. There's a search for a treatment and a cure, but Joanne Schantz, a clinical neuropsychologist and professor at Utah State University, is also trying to figure out what we can do to avoid getting it in the first place. Joanne, Welcome to the middle.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So there are an estimated seven million or so people in America with Alzheimer's, which has not just an enormous effect obviously on the people who have the disease, but also the people who care for them those around them. There's so much we don't know. What are the big questions you have that you're trying to answer with your work.

So there are an estimated seven million or so people in America with Alzheimer's, which has not just an enormous effect obviously on the people who have the disease, but also the people who care for them those around them. There's so much we don't know. What are the big questions you have that you're trying to answer with your work.

I'm very interested in individual differences because there's so much variability across individuals in terms of the risk that they have in developing Alzheimer's disease or other dementias, as well as the clinical expression after disease onset. So I'm curious to understand what makes one person you know, exhibit or develop Alzheimer's disease, you know, decades before another individual. Is it all genetics or are there some modifiable factors things that we can do to try to reduce our risk for developing Alzheimer's disease? And then even after dementia onset, what factors influence the clinical expression.

I'm very interested in individual differences because there's so much variability across individuals in terms of the risk that they have in developing Alzheimer's disease or other dementias, as well as the clinical expression after disease onset. So I'm curious to understand what makes one person you know, exhibit or develop Alzheimer's disease, you know, decades before another individual. Is it all genetics or are there some modifiable factors things that we can do to try to reduce our risk for developing Alzheimer's disease? And then even after dementia onset, what factors influence the clinical expression.

Is it surprising to you that with so many people in this country dealing with this disease, that we don't know those things yet.

Is it surprising to you that with so many people in this country dealing with this disease, that we don't know those things yet.

No, because people are so different. You know, my background is different from your background as well as others, and we've experienced so many different events in our lives, you know, stressful lives or also maybe some people have advantages that others don't, So there are disparities that can also influence risk.

No, because people are so different. You know, my background is different from your background as well as others, and we've experienced so many different events in our lives, you know, stressful lives or also maybe some people have advantages that others don't, So there are disparities that can also influence risk.

I guess for our audience, we should also just make a distinction between Alzheimer's and dementia. What is the difference between the two.

I guess for our audience, we should also just make a distinction between Alzheimer's and dementia. What is the difference between the two.

So, dementia is simply a syndrome of symptoms that indicate an individual has declined in cognition, memory, other domains so that they can't function independently. There are a number of different causes of dementia, and that's where we get into specific conditions such as Alzheimer's disease or vascular causes of dementia, or Lewis body dementia and so forth. So Alzheimer's disease is the most common cause of dementia in late life, but it certainly is not the only cause.

So, dementia is simply a syndrome of symptoms that indicate an individual has declined in cognition, memory, other domains so that they can't function independently. There are a number of different causes of dementia, and that's where we get into specific conditions such as Alzheimer's disease or vascular causes of dementia, or Lewis body dementia and so forth. So Alzheimer's disease is the most common cause of dementia in late life, but it certainly is not the only cause.

So what kind of progress have you made? What have you found about the reasons that people develop Alzheimer's disease.

So what kind of progress have you made? What have you found about the reasons that people develop Alzheimer's disease.

So we have examined differences in the risk between men and women, So women in our cohort study of five thousand individuals, we've found that women had higher risk of Alzheimer's disease, especially after age eighty five. We've also found some individual risk factors modifiable factors associated with increased risk as well as reduction and risk, So things like healthy diets like the Mediterranean diet or others have found the mind diet to be somewhat protective in developing Alzheimer's disease. We've also found that increased stressful life events might increase one's risk of developing Alzheimer's disease, and those taking anti inflammatory medications, for example, are associated with the reduction risk. But these are all associational studies, and so really the gold standard is to look at clinical trials where you can take individuals randomly, assign them to a treatment versus a control group, and then make conclusions based on the results of the trial.

So we have examined differences in the risk between men and women, So women in our cohort study of five thousand individuals, we've found that women had higher risk of Alzheimer's disease, especially after age eighty five. We've also found some individual risk factors modifiable factors associated with increased risk as well as reduction and risk, So things like healthy diets like the Mediterranean diet or others have found the mind diet to be somewhat protective in developing Alzheimer's disease. We've also found that increased stressful life events might increase one's risk of developing Alzheimer's disease, and those taking anti inflammatory medications, for example, are associated with the reduction risk. But these are all associational studies, and so really the gold standard is to look at clinical trials where you can take individuals randomly, assign them to a treatment versus a control group, and then make conclusions based on the results of the trial.

Now you're there at a state university, a public institution. Where does the funding come from for the research that you do?

Now you're there at a state university, a public institution. Where does the funding come from for the research that you do?

So much of the research in the past we had received a number of grants from the National Institute on Aging that funded our large population based study of five thousand individuals, the Cache County Study on Memory and Aging. We also received additional funding from the National Institute on Aging for ancillary studies related to following individuals who had developed dementia in our cohort and follow them over time to look at differences in the expression of dementia. We also, now in this sort of phase of the research that I'm engaged in, we are receiving funding from the state. The Utah Legislature funded Utah State Universities first Alzheimer's Disease and Dementia Research Center, which it's in its like maybe second to third year, and the goal of this was to fund research across the state, but it's housed here at Utah State University. I also received some funding from private foundation, the Emma Eccles Jones Foundation, But this allows us to again, you know, continue our studies on looking at individual indicators and risk factors for develop dementia as well as those that might enhance successful aging.

So much of the research in the past we had received a number of grants from the National Institute on Aging that funded our large population based study of five thousand individuals, the Cache County Study on Memory and Aging. We also received additional funding from the National Institute on Aging for ancillary studies related to following individuals who had developed dementia in our cohort and follow them over time to look at differences in the expression of dementia. We also, now in this sort of phase of the research that I'm engaged in, we are receiving funding from the state. The Utah Legislature funded Utah State Universities first Alzheimer's Disease and Dementia Research Center, which it's in its like maybe second to third year, and the goal of this was to fund research across the state, but it's housed here at Utah State University. I also received some funding from private foundation, the Emma Eccles Jones Foundation, But this allows us to again, you know, continue our studies on looking at individual indicators and risk factors for develop dementia as well as those that might enhance successful aging.

I imagine that governments, whether they be state government or federal government, would have an absolute interest in this kind of research because of the amount of money that it's going to cost to care for so many people around the state, and around the country and around the world with Alzheimer's.

I imagine that governments, whether they be state government or federal government, would have an absolute interest in this kind of research because of the amount of money that it's going to cost to care for so many people around the state, and around the country and around the world with Alzheimer's.

Yes, that's absolutely true. I mean, if we could even you know, slow the onset of frank dementia by five years or so, that would result in tremendous amounts of savings caregivers. Much of the care lands on the person's family members, you know what we call informal care supports. And you know, you have issues with lost wages when people can't go to work because they have to care. They are providing care for the persons with dementia, and with the increase in the older adult segments of our popular this is going to be substantial in years to come.

Yes, that's absolutely true. I mean, if we could even you know, slow the onset of frank dementia by five years or so, that would result in tremendous amounts of savings caregivers. Much of the care lands on the person's family members, you know what we call informal care supports. And you know, you have issues with lost wages when people can't go to work because they have to care. They are providing care for the persons with dementia, and with the increase in the older adult segments of our popular this is going to be substantial in years to come.

I remember the first time I ever encountered somebody with Alzheimer's. I was a kid and a couple down the street. The wife had Alzheimer's and I remember going over to their house and she thought that I was one of her sons, which was just a really sad thing to experience. I have since had a family member die after struggling with Alzheimer's. I can see it on a really personal level. What about you? What got you into this line of research and work?

I remember the first time I ever encountered somebody with Alzheimer's. I was a kid and a couple down the street. The wife had Alzheimer's and I remember going over to their house and she thought that I was one of her sons, which was just a really sad thing to experience. I have since had a family member die after struggling with Alzheimer's. I can see it on a really personal level. What about you? What got you into this line of research and work?

So I've always been interested in psychology and clinical psychology and people who struggle with mental health conditions. And I know Alzheimer's is a neurological condition, but as I went through my training, especially in the clinical training on my internship and clinical postdoc, I was struck by and really love working with older adults. I mean, these older adults are survivors. They've survived, you know, decades into their sixties, seventies, and eighties, and they're resilient. And so seeing patients who suffer at the end of their lives with dementia and you know, and suffering really hit me. And so I wanted to see what I could do to help, you know, help in the process of diagnosis, where neuropsychology is quite important, but you know, more so in research where just to understand the various illnesses that cause dementia and what can be done and if there is no cure, what can be done to help enhance the individual's quality of life.

So I've always been interested in psychology and clinical psychology and people who struggle with mental health conditions. And I know Alzheimer's is a neurological condition, but as I went through my training, especially in the clinical training on my internship and clinical postdoc, I was struck by and really love working with older adults. I mean, these older adults are survivors. They've survived, you know, decades into their sixties, seventies, and eighties, and they're resilient. And so seeing patients who suffer at the end of their lives with dementia and you know, and suffering really hit me. And so I wanted to see what I could do to help, you know, help in the process of diagnosis, where neuropsychology is quite important, but you know, more so in research where just to understand the various illnesses that cause dementia and what can be done and if there is no cure, what can be done to help enhance the individual's quality of life.

Are your students interested in this kind of thing?

Are your students interested in this kind of thing?

Oh? Yeah, my students. You know, I love my students. They are great. They have a curiosity that just kind of feeds some of the excitement and thinking in our lab and you know, I think the big thing is they have so many rich ideas that we have to say, well, we have to scale it back because you do need to graduate. You do need to finish your thesis and your dissertation.

Oh? Yeah, my students. You know, I love my students. They are great. They have a curiosity that just kind of feeds some of the excitement and thinking in our lab and you know, I think the big thing is they have so many rich ideas that we have to say, well, we have to scale it back because you do need to graduate. You do need to finish your thesis and your dissertation.

Some of the best mentorship I've ever gotten has been people saying, Okay, slow it down, Let's just take it one piece at a time. You don't have to do it all at once. Although it's great to have that kind of energy and enthusiasm, I guess as a as a student and think.

Some of the best mentorship I've ever gotten has been people saying, Okay, slow it down, Let's just take it one piece at a time. You don't have to do it all at once. Although it's great to have that kind of energy and enthusiasm, I guess as a as a student and think.

Big definitely, and I think it's you know, some of the best questions that are asked are those you know who are new in the field. So they're like, gee, I wonder why this you know? And then you just look into it and there's some really cool, cool things that can be studied and important discoveries made. So I think the students add kind of a nice level of enthusiasm and energy and a curiosity that you know, it just helps to bring in the novelty to the process.

Big definitely, and I think it's you know, some of the best questions that are asked are those you know who are new in the field. So they're like, gee, I wonder why this you know? And then you just look into it and there's some really cool, cool things that can be studied and important discoveries made. So I think the students add kind of a nice level of enthusiasm and energy and a curiosity that you know, it just helps to bring in the novelty to the process.

So we've talked a lot about risk factors and what people might be able to do to prevent themselves from getting Alzheimer's in the first place. What about the cure side. What kind of progress have you seen on that side or treatment that can make it easier for people who are dealing with it.

So we've talked a lot about risk factors and what people might be able to do to prevent themselves from getting Alzheimer's in the first place. What about the cure side. What kind of progress have you seen on that side or treatment that can make it easier for people who are dealing with it.

Yeah, So on the cure side, there have been a number of medications that have been FDA approved that have been used for years. So these are drugs that, you know, they're not cures, but they maybe provide a boost in functioning. Now, some of the concerns about these medications is their substantial side effects. So somewhere around thirty percent, maybe forty percent of individuals may suffer from significant side effects that are associated with like swelling in the brain or microbleeds, and there's a particular genotype that's associated for increased risk of those side effects. And so individuals who go on these medications just need to be closely monitored. They need to have MRI scans, and so the treating healthcare providers can maybe adjust dosage and titrate, you know, more slowly to get to an effective dose.

Yeah, So on the cure side, there have been a number of medications that have been FDA approved that have been used for years. So these are drugs that, you know, they're not cures, but they maybe provide a boost in functioning. Now, some of the concerns about these medications is their substantial side effects. So somewhere around thirty percent, maybe forty percent of individuals may suffer from significant side effects that are associated with like swelling in the brain or microbleeds, and there's a particular genotype that's associated for increased risk of those side effects. And so individuals who go on these medications just need to be closely monitored. They need to have MRI scans, and so the treating healthcare providers can maybe adjust dosage and titrate, you know, more slowly to get to an effective dose.

It may not be a medical answer, but what about people who are helping their family members or their loved ones with Alzheimer's. What can be done for them to make their lives easier? Do you think?

It may not be a medical answer, but what about people who are helping their family members or their loved ones with Alzheimer's. What can be done for them to make their lives easier? Do you think?

Yeah, So the caregivers and the family members. I mean, those individuals are really warriors. I mean, they take on so much of their loved ones care and they're so critical because we have found in our studies that those caregivers who are closer to their care recipients actually have such a positive impact. The care recipients decline more slowly among those individuals who have very close relationships with their caregivers. And some of this is due to maybe nutritional factors where they're providing greater nutrition, or they're providing a cognitively stimulating environment that's appropriate for the care recipient. But those caregivers do take on a lot, and it can take on a wear and tear, and so the caregivers need to kind of recognize that perhaps they need to spread the care, you know, and they list multiple siblings or family members or even friends to take on aspects of care. You know, perhaps they can oversee elements, so they're kind of like the lead caregiver that then doles out various activities. But they certainly can't take on everything. I mean, there are books out there on burden, and you know, there's a book that's called The thirty six Hour Day that definitely, you know.

Yeah, So the caregivers and the family members. I mean, those individuals are really warriors. I mean, they take on so much of their loved ones care and they're so critical because we have found in our studies that those caregivers who are closer to their care recipients actually have such a positive impact. The care recipients decline more slowly among those individuals who have very close relationships with their caregivers. And some of this is due to maybe nutritional factors where they're providing greater nutrition, or they're providing a cognitively stimulating environment that's appropriate for the care recipient. But those caregivers do take on a lot, and it can take on a wear and tear, and so the caregivers need to kind of recognize that perhaps they need to spread the care, you know, and they list multiple siblings or family members or even friends to take on aspects of care. You know, perhaps they can oversee elements, so they're kind of like the lead caregiver that then doles out various activities. But they certainly can't take on everything. I mean, there are books out there on burden, and you know, there's a book that's called The thirty six Hour Day that definitely, you know.

Says it all right there in the title, Yeah.

Says it all right there in the title, Yeah.

Right, exactly. It's not twenty four hours. It's more than that.

Right, exactly. It's not twenty four hours. It's more than that.

You know, if you zoom out here. We have made so much progress in healthcare, in keeping people alive longer, keeping our bodies working longer, but keeping our minds healthy along with our bodies has been more of a challenge. Why do you think that is?

You know, if you zoom out here. We have made so much progress in healthcare, in keeping people alive longer, keeping our bodies working longer, but keeping our minds healthy along with our bodies has been more of a challenge. Why do you think that is?

I think it's because perhaps the medical profession has been great in terms of identifying diseases and finding treatments. Alzheimer's and cognitive change over time is multidetermined, and so there's like this Lancet Commission on Model Fible Risk Factors for Dementia that reviewed all the modifiable risk factors and there's you know, a host of them. There's like, you know, ten or so that are listed cognitively stimulating activities, midlife obesity, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, air pollution, hearing loss, past head injury, things that come with life. Right. We don't just live in a vacuum. There are multiple things that act our survival as well as our thinking. And so with cognition and cognitive change, you can't just identify one thing. They'll say this this is it. This is the magic bullet. It's like multiple factors. So all of these things can combine. You know, the diet that one eight did they eat a lot of foods rich in rich in fats and sugars, you know, things that we all kind of enjoy. But did that lead to obesity? Did that cause heart disease? And did that heart disease, you know, increase some of the cardiovascular conditions that then increase one's risk for Alzheimer's disease.

I think it's because perhaps the medical profession has been great in terms of identifying diseases and finding treatments. Alzheimer's and cognitive change over time is multidetermined, and so there's like this Lancet Commission on Model Fible Risk Factors for Dementia that reviewed all the modifiable risk factors and there's you know, a host of them. There's like, you know, ten or so that are listed cognitively stimulating activities, midlife obesity, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, air pollution, hearing loss, past head injury, things that come with life. Right. We don't just live in a vacuum. There are multiple things that act our survival as well as our thinking. And so with cognition and cognitive change, you can't just identify one thing. They'll say this this is it. This is the magic bullet. It's like multiple factors. So all of these things can combine. You know, the diet that one eight did they eat a lot of foods rich in rich in fats and sugars, you know, things that we all kind of enjoy. But did that lead to obesity? Did that cause heart disease? And did that heart disease, you know, increase some of the cardiovascular conditions that then increase one's risk for Alzheimer's disease.

That all affects your brain. You're saying, everything that's happened to your entire life has some elution.

That all affects your brain. You're saying, everything that's happened to your entire life has some elution.

You know, does that increase inflammation in the brain and help drive some of the neuropathological processes. So it's really a multidetermined, multifaceted problem, and so I think the solution would be also multifaceted.

You know, does that increase inflammation in the brain and help drive some of the neuropathological processes. So it's really a multidetermined, multifaceted problem, and so I think the solution would be also multifaceted.

Let me just finally bring it back to the middle, the name of the show, the geographic middle. What has kept you in Utah all this time doing your work? And what do you think you gain from being Alzheimer's researcher professor in the middle of the country.