If this is the me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast, you can't predict anything presented by first Light, creating proven versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear for every hunt, first Light Go Farther, Stay Longer. Okay. Joined today by fabulous author Ian Fraser, author probably arguably, when I make lists of the of my favorite books of all time, usually at the top of the list is the book Great Planes.

If this is the me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast, you can't predict anything presented by first Light, creating proven versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear for every hunt, first Light Go Farther, Stay Longer. Okay. Joined today by fabulous author Ian Fraser, author probably arguably, when I make lists of the of my favorite books of all time, usually at the top of the list is the book Great Planes.

I'm glad to hear that I taught you a word with that book. You did remember the word ichi PASISI?

I'm glad to hear that I taught you a word with that book. You did remember the word ichi PASISI?

Oh, yeah, but I can't remember what I meant.

Oh, yeah, but I can't remember what I meant.

It's a Lakota word. If it's growing, going along a stream, crossing back and forth, it is a very useful word. You can say I went down that stream, I went down that crek ichi PASISI. And later I checked with Lakota people and they said it actually means sewing. But yeah, but the guy was using it, the guy I was talking to was using it as ways telling me how to get to.

It's a Lakota word. If it's growing, going along a stream, crossing back and forth, it is a very useful word. You can say I went down that stream, I went down that crek ichi PASISI. And later I checked with Lakota people and they said it actually means sewing. But yeah, but the guy was using it, the guy I was talking to was using it as ways telling me how to get to.

It.

It.

Is like we even back and forth with a sewing right, It's like you're yeah, it is a sewing motion.

Is like we even back and forth with a sewing right, It's like you're yeah, it is a sewing motion.

But author of I don't even know how many things so award winning writer, hem, how many books you have? We have a zillion written down, but it's.

But author of I don't even know how many things so award winning writer, hem, how many books you have? We have a zillion written down, but it's.

A zillion, it's like it's slightly less. It's about I would say a million, billion, trillion.

A zillion, it's like it's slightly less. It's about I would say a million, billion, trillion.

Author of a lot of fantastic books, including Travels in Siberia. Yes, it's a great book. Thank you, and culminates in a very spirited argument that Stalin Joe are not okay.

Author of a lot of fantastic books, including Travels in Siberia. Yes, it's a great book. Thank you, and culminates in a very spirited argument that Stalin Joe are not okay.

Stalin jokes are not okay.

Stalin jokes are not okay.

I don't remember writing that you did? I did? Okay.

I don't remember writing that you did? I did? Okay.

Well, the thing is, you had a big influence on that book. I did because I wrote that. The New Yorker paid a lot of expenses for it, so I owed them a lot of that book. So I gave him the book and they kind of condensed part of it, and he said, don't do that. And I think they did a good job condensing it. But I'm that that decided me. It's very hard when you have a book and then you have a magazine excerpt to do justice to both of them. And the next time I'm not doing not doing more anymore condensing. But that was you don't remember. That was your verdict on it.

Well, the thing is, you had a big influence on that book. I did because I wrote that. The New Yorker paid a lot of expenses for it, so I owed them a lot of that book. So I gave him the book and they kind of condensed part of it, and he said, don't do that. And I think they did a good job condensing it. But I'm that that decided me. It's very hard when you have a book and then you have a magazine excerpt to do justice to both of them. And the next time I'm not doing not doing more anymore condensing. But that was you don't remember. That was your verdict on it.

No, I can't believe I had any advice. You did have advice. The best thing you ever said to me. You said a lot of great things to me. The best thing you ever said to me. I can't say. Why can't you tell the story all the time. I wouldn't tell it publicly, I'd tell it privately all the time. Okay, I'll tell you later what you said. Okay.

No, I can't believe I had any advice. You did have advice. The best thing you ever said to me. You said a lot of great things to me. The best thing you ever said to me. I can't say. Why can't you tell the story all the time. I wouldn't tell it publicly, I'd tell it privately all the time. Okay, I'll tell you later what you said. Okay.

It was a financial advice you.

It was a financial advice you.

After you wrote, after you wrote your book about the Pine Ridge Reservation. We were a book called on the Reds, which is a phenomenal history of the Pine Ridge Reservation in the in the in the wars against the Sioux and confinement to reservation and what happened on the reservation. You offered a summation of you offered a summation of your findings, and it was I just wanted to say it publicly. Okay, Well, you can tell me later what it was. You said another great thing to me one day, because uh so Ian Fraser, I'm gonna his friends call him Sandy. I'm gonna be using the word sandy. It's from Ohio. Yes, I am from Michigan. Yeah. And you said to me Not long after we met, you said, whenever I think of Michigan, I think of people who say, fucker's.

After you wrote, after you wrote your book about the Pine Ridge Reservation. We were a book called on the Reds, which is a phenomenal history of the Pine Ridge Reservation in the in the in the wars against the Sioux and confinement to reservation and what happened on the reservation. You offered a summation of you offered a summation of your findings, and it was I just wanted to say it publicly. Okay, Well, you can tell me later what it was. You said another great thing to me one day, because uh so Ian Fraser, I'm gonna his friends call him Sandy. I'm gonna be using the word sandy. It's from Ohio. Yes, I am from Michigan. Yeah. And you said to me Not long after we met, you said, whenever I think of Michigan, I think of people who say, fucker's.

That's fantastic.

That's fantastic.

All right, Well, I would tell you a story, a Michigan related story about gray planes. Because Great Plains was on the best seller list for ten weeks New York Times bestseller.

All right, Well, I would tell you a story, a Michigan related story about gray planes. Because Great Plains was on the best seller list for ten weeks New York Times bestseller.

That's that's a hard thing to pull off.

That's that's a hard thing to pull off.

And it was bumped off the best seller list. And the book that bumped it off, that moved it, that replaced it on the best seller list was Bo by Bo Schambackler, oh Michigan coach for about fifty years. He bumped you, He bumped me, and we were, of course very opposed to Michigan football because we were Ohio State fans.

And it was bumped off the best seller list. And the book that bumped it off, that moved it, that replaced it on the best seller list was Bo by Bo Schambackler, oh Michigan coach for about fifty years. He bumped you, He bumped me, and we were, of course very opposed to Michigan football because we were Ohio State fans.

But I want to tell you another thing you said to me. Then we're gonna then we're gonna, we're gonna come back to all your work. But here's an earthing you said to me one time when I got out of graduate school. I uh, I want to prefaces by saying, I don't mean any offense to the individual we're going to talk about. When I got out of graduate school, I largely motivated by uh. I never told you this largely motivated by great planes. And what a phenomenal job you did with that book about the American Great Plains. I was, I was like, I want to and and other things too, but I wanted to go. I was going to go back. I went to graduate school in Montana. I was going to go back to Michigan. My dad just died, so I had access to his truck. He didn't need it anymore, and I was going to go back to Michigan and drive all around. I was gonna do like a history of the Great Lakes where I grew up. And I knew certain weird things about the Great Lakes. Have I talked about this before? I don't know. I don't think. So. I knew certain things about the Great Lakes that I didn't think anybody knew, Like, for instance, after after, who's the founder of the Joseph Smith founder of the Mormon Church. So Joseph Smith was hanged by a mob in Carthage, Illinois. Is that Yes, there was a power struggle between his followers, and there was two emerging forces came out of this, Brigham Young and a guy named James Jesse Strange I think was his name. One of them was like I'm gonna head out to the Great Salt Lake, Okay to flee persecution. And one of them was like, I'm gonna head to Beaver Island in Lake Michigan with my followers to flee persecution. Strange. So Brigham Young went on to like very successfully, you know establish you know Zion, right, And Brigham Young goes up to this little dinky ass island in Lake Michigan. Get strange. Strange goes up to this dinky ass island in Lake Michigan like starts trying to intercept ships and act like they were in his waters and tax them like he was a sovereign nation. Yeah, he winds up getting shot by his own followers next to a wood pile along the beach, and that was the end of his whole experiment. They had had it with him. Another thing I knew about the Great Lakes was that I thought was interesting is at one time a Niagara Falls, a guy a zoo went out of business, and a guy bought all the shit from the zoo, all the animals, and put him on a barge and charge and sold tickets to watch him run the barge over the falls. I'd heard of that, Yeah, but I grew up on the grade that nowadays would get you kicked off social media. If you posted reading.

But I want to tell you another thing you said to me. Then we're gonna then we're gonna, we're gonna come back to all your work. But here's an earthing you said to me one time when I got out of graduate school. I uh, I want to prefaces by saying, I don't mean any offense to the individual we're going to talk about. When I got out of graduate school, I largely motivated by uh. I never told you this largely motivated by great planes. And what a phenomenal job you did with that book about the American Great Plains. I was, I was like, I want to and and other things too, but I wanted to go. I was going to go back. I went to graduate school in Montana. I was going to go back to Michigan. My dad just died, so I had access to his truck. He didn't need it anymore, and I was going to go back to Michigan and drive all around. I was gonna do like a history of the Great Lakes where I grew up. And I knew certain weird things about the Great Lakes. Have I talked about this before? I don't know. I don't think. So. I knew certain things about the Great Lakes that I didn't think anybody knew, Like, for instance, after after, who's the founder of the Joseph Smith founder of the Mormon Church. So Joseph Smith was hanged by a mob in Carthage, Illinois. Is that Yes, there was a power struggle between his followers, and there was two emerging forces came out of this, Brigham Young and a guy named James Jesse Strange I think was his name. One of them was like I'm gonna head out to the Great Salt Lake, Okay to flee persecution. And one of them was like, I'm gonna head to Beaver Island in Lake Michigan with my followers to flee persecution. Strange. So Brigham Young went on to like very successfully, you know establish you know Zion, right, And Brigham Young goes up to this little dinky ass island in Lake Michigan. Get strange. Strange goes up to this dinky ass island in Lake Michigan like starts trying to intercept ships and act like they were in his waters and tax them like he was a sovereign nation. Yeah, he winds up getting shot by his own followers next to a wood pile along the beach, and that was the end of his whole experiment. They had had it with him. Another thing I knew about the Great Lakes was that I thought was interesting is at one time a Niagara Falls, a guy a zoo went out of business, and a guy bought all the shit from the zoo, all the animals, and put him on a barge and charge and sold tickets to watch him run the barge over the falls. I'd heard of that, Yeah, but I grew up on the grade that nowadays would get you kicked off social media. If you posted reading.

A lot of people would watch it first.

A lot of people would watch it first.

They would you would not you'd get all kind you'd never dig out of that hole.

They would you would not you'd get all kind you'd never dig out of that hole.

A third of the crowd's going, well, I mean, listen, he's gonna do it anyway. The apathy.

A third of the crowd's going, well, I mean, listen, he's gonna do it anyway. The apathy.

So I was like armed with these things, you know. And then this book comes out by this guy named Jerry Dennis, and his hook for his book is that some dude bought a boat. I don't know, Like, some guy buys a boat out in the ocean somewhere in the either way, he's got to get on a boat and sail off through the Great Legs. So that's his sort of angle. So it's a travelog about the Great Legs. But in it, some bitch talks about no offense. Jerry Dennis talks about the Mormon split, talks about the the menagerie of critters going over the.

So I was like armed with these things, you know. And then this book comes out by this guy named Jerry Dennis, and his hook for his book is that some dude bought a boat. I don't know, Like, some guy buys a boat out in the ocean somewhere in the either way, he's got to get on a boat and sail off through the Great Legs. So that's his sort of angle. So it's a travelog about the Great Legs. But in it, some bitch talks about no offense. Jerry Dennis talks about the Mormon split, talks about the the menagerie of critters going over the.

Falls that took the wind out of your sails.

Falls that took the wind out of your sails.

Oh it did. And just as the book was coming out, I called Sandy and I said, man, there's a book coming out by a guy named Jerry Dennis. And I wrote him or email out to I conveyed this to him, and it's really just taking the wind out of my sails on this whole project. And he left me a voicemail. He left me a voicemail some days later and it said, Uh, you know, I've been thinking since you called, and I can't think of one good book ever written by a guy named Jerry. I started. I had to think, like, does Jerry Lewis write good books? Uh, we're going to get into this whole body work.

Oh it did. And just as the book was coming out, I called Sandy and I said, man, there's a book coming out by a guy named Jerry Dennis. And I wrote him or email out to I conveyed this to him, and it's really just taking the wind out of my sails on this whole project. And he left me a voicemail. He left me a voicemail some days later and it said, Uh, you know, I've been thinking since you called, and I can't think of one good book ever written by a guy named Jerry. I started. I had to think, like, does Jerry Lewis write good books? Uh, we're going to get into this whole body work.

Are you guys gonna talk about like people are probably wondering how you guys even know each other.

Are you guys gonna talk about like people are probably wondering how you guys even know each other.

We know each other from the so we met. Here's how we met. You probably don't even know this.

We know each other from the so we met. Here's how we met. You probably don't even know this.

Well, let's see, I probably don't.

Well, let's see, I probably don't.

When I was going to when I was in graduate school in the writing program, you came in as like a visiting writer.

When I was going to when I was in graduate school in the writing program, you came in as like a visiting writer.

Oh yeah, yeah, of course I remember that well.

Oh yeah, yeah, of course I remember that well.

And then you so I used to So I wouldn't be sitting here if it wasn't I wouldn't be sitting here if it wasn't for you and you and a handful like like mister Heaton from Reese Buffer High School, right, And then you know, probably not because of him, but then largely because of you, because is to submit to magazines by just sending shit in the mail, which didn't work out. Well, no one has time to look at all that stuff. And you vouched for me and fronted my work at Outside magazine.

And then you so I used to So I wouldn't be sitting here if it wasn't I wouldn't be sitting here if it wasn't for you and you and a handful like like mister Heaton from Reese Buffer High School, right, And then you know, probably not because of him, but then largely because of you, because is to submit to magazines by just sending shit in the mail, which didn't work out. Well, no one has time to look at all that stuff. And you vouched for me and fronted my work at Outside magazine.

Well, can I tell my version of this?

Well, can I tell my version of this?

Is it different than that?

Is it different than that?

It's a little bit more, it's a little bit more nuanced.

It's a little bit more, it's a little bit more nuanced.

Oh okay.

Oh okay.

I taught at University of Montana for two weeks, so my contact with the students in the MFA program was not large. I was just there very briefly, and you submitted a piece, and I mean, this is just a personal thing of mine, but I think if you can avoid an MFA program, avoid it.

I taught at University of Montana for two weeks, so my contact with the students in the MFA program was not large. I was just there very briefly, and you submitted a piece, and I mean, this is just a personal thing of mine, but I think if you can avoid an MFA program, avoid it.

Yeah, you didn't tell that because you were talking to MFA people.

Yeah, you didn't tell that because you were talking to MFA people.

Well no, and because they were paying me, so I was just doing what was asking me. But spiritually I'm not a big fan of MFA programs. So you gave me this piece and it was incredibly good. It was about the weather in Michigan, in northern Michigan, and I mean it was just it just blew me away, and I said, you quit, leave this program.

Well no, and because they were paying me, so I was just doing what was asking me. But spiritually I'm not a big fan of MFA programs. So you gave me this piece and it was incredibly good. It was about the weather in Michigan, in northern Michigan, and I mean it was just it just blew me away, and I said, you quit, leave this program.

You could make a living at this right now. Don't do this. Go and I.

You could make a living at this right now. Don't do this. Go and I.

Could, I can, you know, talk to people, you could get pieces published. Right now, this is really good and you quite sensibly finished. I've given people so much bad advice over the years, but you you sensibly you finished. And then you wrote somewhat later. You wrote a piece about fishing in the outflow from a damt Michigan, where you went up into the tunnel coming out of the generators, sleeping there and sleeping. You had your boat hooked up to something along the side.

Could, I can, you know, talk to people, you could get pieces published. Right now, this is really good and you quite sensibly finished. I've given people so much bad advice over the years, but you you sensibly you finished. And then you wrote somewhat later. You wrote a piece about fishing in the outflow from a damt Michigan, where you went up into the tunnel coming out of the generators, sleeping there and sleeping. You had your boat hooked up to something along the side.

I mean it was like there was such a concrete anchor driven into the roof and you could tie off on it.

I mean it was like there was such a concrete anchor driven into the roof and you could tie off on it.

And what are you fishing for?

And what are you fishing for?

White Because like you had to compete in that spot with old men that would get up so early. So we would leave the bar on occasion and take our boat and park it in the good spot in the dam. Oh yeah, yeah, we'd we can sleep in sleeping bags. Two in the morning. Old men get up and we'd be in the tube. And so the fish would come up, steelhead, white fish would come up to feed on these insects. Because this it was a big there was a diversion in the river. They like manually like mechanically diverted a big chain of the suit the Saint Mary's River ran it all through town and then down a slope, and then it powered this big hydro electric dam and that thing that that that river would be so soulful insect life that when it flowed back into the Saint Mary's all this like larva and mayflies and whatever coming out of these turbans. And you could just sit there in turbans watch fish just sitting there feeding in these in the outwash of the turban. So my brother and his body who lived there before I moved up there, they hit an idea to just go in the middle of the night and get the good because you couldn't understand it. But certain turbans produced really well and they would get their turban by just going in the morning. So then old men would think they got it because they didn't know, and they'd pull up and realize you're sleeping in the thing. That it was great. It was great. I can't claim the discovery, but I wrote about the experience.

White Because like you had to compete in that spot with old men that would get up so early. So we would leave the bar on occasion and take our boat and park it in the good spot in the dam. Oh yeah, yeah, we'd we can sleep in sleeping bags. Two in the morning. Old men get up and we'd be in the tube. And so the fish would come up, steelhead, white fish would come up to feed on these insects. Because this it was a big there was a diversion in the river. They like manually like mechanically diverted a big chain of the suit the Saint Mary's River ran it all through town and then down a slope, and then it powered this big hydro electric dam and that thing that that that river would be so soulful insect life that when it flowed back into the Saint Mary's all this like larva and mayflies and whatever coming out of these turbans. And you could just sit there in turbans watch fish just sitting there feeding in these in the outwash of the turban. So my brother and his body who lived there before I moved up there, they hit an idea to just go in the middle of the night and get the good because you couldn't understand it. But certain turbans produced really well and they would get their turban by just going in the morning. So then old men would think they got it because they didn't know, and they'd pull up and realize you're sleeping in the thing. That it was great. It was great. I can't claim the discovery, but I wrote about the experience.

So you gave that piece to D. Mcknamer, who taught it you of M and D said, this is a fabulous piece, and she sent it to me, and I sent it to Mary Turner and outside and I said, this guy is great and that was your first piece and outside, as I recall.

So you gave that piece to D. Mcknamer, who taught it you of M and D said, this is a fabulous piece, and she sent it to me, and I sent it to Mary Turner and outside and I said, this guy is great and that was your first piece and outside, as I recall.

Dude, that was I was happier that you know. You saved your message on my machine.

Dude, that was I was happier that you know. You saved your message on my machine.

You called me after they bought it, and it was the happiest message I've ever gotten on my machine.

You called me after they bought it, and it was the happiest message I've ever gotten on my machine.

Him.

Him.

Yeah, no, I just talked to Mary Turner. I talked to Mary Turner. She will have the pace. She's gonna pay me four thousand dollars. It was such a huge amount of money. This is like I remember being hanging shower doors or something at the time I was doing cabinet was installing. I was installing, uh, I was installing closet shelving, and then working for in the tree service business. Yeah, and uh, oh my god, there's a lot of money. I remember being in the bar that night. I could have just died that night, be in the bar that night, and like certain friends were like happy. Certain friends were just so tore up, like they couldn't even look at me. They're so jealous. I had all this money. I bought a truck topper when it stayed several days at a hot spring.

Yeah, no, I just talked to Mary Turner. I talked to Mary Turner. She will have the pace. She's gonna pay me four thousand dollars. It was such a huge amount of money. This is like I remember being hanging shower doors or something at the time I was doing cabinet was installing. I was installing, uh, I was installing closet shelving, and then working for in the tree service business. Yeah, and uh, oh my god, there's a lot of money. I remember being in the bar that night. I could have just died that night, be in the bar that night, and like certain friends were like happy. Certain friends were just so tore up, like they couldn't even look at me. They're so jealous. I had all this money. I bought a truck topper when it stayed several days at a hot spring.

Your closet shelving. Was it just MDF, like prepainted MDF.

Your closet shelving. Was it just MDF, like prepainted MDF.

Yeah, you said to drive over to Spokane and pick it up.

Yeah, you said to drive over to Spokane and pick it up.

Yeah. So for those of you who don't know, as far as your interior finishes go, this is not uh, this would be the bottom of the skilled label.

Yeah. So for those of you who don't know, as far as your interior finishes go, this is not uh, this would be the bottom of the skilled label.

No, no, no, no, because I installed the bottom. The bottom is wire. A good job for us was the melomine the wood bottom is wire melomane. Yeah, all right, Uh, if you remember back a few episodes we had on some anthropologists and archaeologists and we talked about a project in which me and some other folks from the Meat Eater crew went out and butchered a bison using stone tools. We used particularly Clovis points, Clovis projectile points, stone flakes, and we like gutted, skinned, butchered, boned out, and entire bison in collaboration with researchers from Kent State University, SMU, Southern Methodist University, and Oregon State University as all part of this broad or study about developing a toolkit, so to speak, for how to interpret what happened at ice age kill sites where all you have left is bone in stone. So we were using stone tools to butcher an animal, and then the research was to be able to like, look at what happened to these bones, what happened to these stones, and use it as clues, right to put together the puzzles of what was going on when hunters during the Ice Age were chopping up bison and wooly mammoths and whatnot. That is now an episode that we've put together for YouTube, So look for that real soon on the Meat Eater YouTube channel. Oh that this'll you'll appreciate this because this is from Ohio. Do you follow Ohio news a little bit? Yeah, you've reared the walleye cheating scan. Oh of course I couldn't know about that. My god. So well, I'll tell you something you might not know. Okay, did you see in the videos where he cut the walleyes open and got the wine?

No, no, no, no, because I installed the bottom. The bottom is wire. A good job for us was the melomine the wood bottom is wire melomane. Yeah, all right, Uh, if you remember back a few episodes we had on some anthropologists and archaeologists and we talked about a project in which me and some other folks from the Meat Eater crew went out and butchered a bison using stone tools. We used particularly Clovis points, Clovis projectile points, stone flakes, and we like gutted, skinned, butchered, boned out, and entire bison in collaboration with researchers from Kent State University, SMU, Southern Methodist University, and Oregon State University as all part of this broad or study about developing a toolkit, so to speak, for how to interpret what happened at ice age kill sites where all you have left is bone in stone. So we were using stone tools to butcher an animal, and then the research was to be able to like, look at what happened to these bones, what happened to these stones, and use it as clues, right to put together the puzzles of what was going on when hunters during the Ice Age were chopping up bison and wooly mammoths and whatnot. That is now an episode that we've put together for YouTube, So look for that real soon on the Meat Eater YouTube channel. Oh that this'll you'll appreciate this because this is from Ohio. Do you follow Ohio news a little bit? Yeah, you've reared the walleye cheating scan. Oh of course I couldn't know about that. My god. So well, I'll tell you something you might not know. Okay, did you see in the videos where he cut the walleyes open and got the wine?

I haven't seen them.

I haven't seen them.

Well, we own the knife it.

Well, we own the knife it.

Was, yes, that is well, I think it's actually just pliers.

Was, yes, that is well, I think it's actually just pliers.

Again, it's a leather man, but don't leatherman make Okay, it's.

Again, it's a leather man, but don't leatherman make Okay, it's.

What we own. The implement used to cut the walleyes open to discover the lead weights. In addition to the shirt of the man wielding that weapon, we'll talk about valuable ship. Uh, we own that stuff. So that case is trickling along. We're into the news segment. They pleaded guilty to felony cheating and miss This is an interesting one. Misdemeanor animal ownership, presumably meaning they were owning the walleyes. Yeah.

What we own. The implement used to cut the walleyes open to discover the lead weights. In addition to the shirt of the man wielding that weapon, we'll talk about valuable ship. Uh, we own that stuff. So that case is trickling along. We're into the news segment. They pleaded guilty to felony cheating and miss This is an interesting one. Misdemeanor animal ownership, presumably meaning they were owning the walleyes. Yeah.

I would think that would be like over the limit or something.

I would think that would be like over the limit or something.

But misdemeanor animal ownership. So Jacob Runyon forty three and Chase Kaminski, who's in which of these fellers is an all that trouble for trying to go to the bowling alley with hard dollar counterfait.

But misdemeanor animal ownership. So Jacob Runyon forty three and Chase Kaminski, who's in which of these fellers is an all that trouble for trying to go to the bowling alley with hard dollar counterfait.

Kids exactly, which I think plays into the plea deal heavily.

Kids exactly, which I think plays into the plea deal heavily.

I think it's Chase.

I think it's Chase.

Chase, he got a bunch of trouble. He's got like violating a restraining order, bowling with counterfeit money.

Chase, he got a bunch of trouble. He's got like violating a restraining order, bowling with counterfeit money.

Here's encouraging his kid to do that. I mean, that's like, well the.

Here's encouraging his kid to do that. I mean, that's like, well the.

Kid thought none of that stuff was supposed to influence this stuff.

Kid thought none of that stuff was supposed to influence this stuff.

Well that's why I did. That's why I didn't want to, like, I don't think because there's a thing in America called it's not double jeopardy, it's called he is it habeas corpus. What is it that you can't bring up all the all the best stuff you did.

Well that's why I did. That's why I didn't want to, like, I don't think because there's a thing in America called it's not double jeopardy, it's called he is it habeas corpus. What is it that you can't bring up all the all the best stuff you did.

I'm not sure the legal term, but that's what I'm getting dude.

I'm not sure the legal term, but that's what I'm getting dude.

If I rewrote the Constitution, I would lead with fixing that you'd.

If I rewrote the Constitution, I would lead with fixing that you'd.

Be like, well, this guy, Well it does go right when you establish somebody's character as a reliable witness. Like if if a prosecutor could get one of these fellows on the stand and be like, so you're saying that the fish just ate led weights and Walleye fill a's and you just caught the fish, right, Sure that that could happened. We can't prove it can't. But for you to be a reliable witness, what's your track record in lying and what's your right and so they could go back. Yes. Now, the why I think it does play in is just the fact that in order to pay your legal counsel and go through a long drawn out trial process of trying to defend yourself by saying, listen, although we cannot biologically prove that walleye eat lead weights and walleye fill as all the time.

Be like, well, this guy, Well it does go right when you establish somebody's character as a reliable witness. Like if if a prosecutor could get one of these fellows on the stand and be like, so you're saying that the fish just ate led weights and Walleye fill a's and you just caught the fish, right, Sure that that could happened. We can't prove it can't. But for you to be a reliable witness, what's your track record in lying and what's your right and so they could go back. Yes. Now, the why I think it does play in is just the fact that in order to pay your legal counsel and go through a long drawn out trial process of trying to defend yourself by saying, listen, although we cannot biologically prove that walleye eat lead weights and walleye fill as all the time.

I could prove that they don't eat walleye fil as.

I could prove that they don't eat walleye fil as.

So that's gonna cost a bunch of money. He's already on the hook. Bad pun for uh having to clear up his other legal troubles too, So I'm thinking he's just looking at the overall cost of fighting it. Yeah, keeping keeping his head above water another bad punch maybe, But yeah.

So that's gonna cost a bunch of money. He's already on the hook. Bad pun for uh having to clear up his other legal troubles too, So I'm thinking he's just looking at the overall cost of fighting it. Yeah, keeping keeping his head above water another bad punch maybe, But yeah.

They they pled guilty to these things. Okay, they were initially indicted on cheating, attempted grand theft, possession of criminal tools. Tells that mean illegal. I love illegal animal ownership. But when they appeared yesterday Inkoyahogakuyahoga, Cuyahoga County Court, both men pleaded guilty to two of those charges in exchange for the remaining charges being dropped. Now, Jason Fisher, who's been on this show, is glad they pleaded out. Fisher organized a tournament at which Running and Kaminski were caught and appeared in the I'm reading from our own reporting. I should point out to Jordan Siller's piece on the meater dot Com. Uh, this is the one time I'm not like guilty of not adequately sorting or sourcing where I'm getting something from, because Jordan's been on the damn show. So uh. Jason goes on to say it was nice to see they played guilty as opposed to no contest. They admitted to doing everything that the state said they did. It's good for the fishermen in the community as a whole to put this to bed. He points out this is an interesting perspective that Jason Fisher has. Jason Fisher says he's almost kind of glad they're not going to jail, because then taxpayers would have to pay for them to live in jail. He'd rather they just took their boat away and never let them do any walleye tournaments again, so he doesn't have to think of himself footing the bill to pay them to give them their food, which is an interesting perspective on prison time. Usually put people in prison because you want to stick it to them, but he wants to stick it to him by not putting them in prison.

They they pled guilty to these things. Okay, they were initially indicted on cheating, attempted grand theft, possession of criminal tools. Tells that mean illegal. I love illegal animal ownership. But when they appeared yesterday Inkoyahogakuyahoga, Cuyahoga County Court, both men pleaded guilty to two of those charges in exchange for the remaining charges being dropped. Now, Jason Fisher, who's been on this show, is glad they pleaded out. Fisher organized a tournament at which Running and Kaminski were caught and appeared in the I'm reading from our own reporting. I should point out to Jordan Siller's piece on the meater dot Com. Uh, this is the one time I'm not like guilty of not adequately sorting or sourcing where I'm getting something from, because Jordan's been on the damn show. So uh. Jason goes on to say it was nice to see they played guilty as opposed to no contest. They admitted to doing everything that the state said they did. It's good for the fishermen in the community as a whole to put this to bed. He points out this is an interesting perspective that Jason Fisher has. Jason Fisher says he's almost kind of glad they're not going to jail, because then taxpayers would have to pay for them to live in jail. He'd rather they just took their boat away and never let them do any walleye tournaments again, so he doesn't have to think of himself footing the bill to pay them to give them their food, which is an interesting perspective on prison time. Usually put people in prison because you want to stick it to them, but he wants to stick it to him by not putting them in prison.

And let's be fair, they're doing a great job at sticking it to themselves.

And let's be fair, they're doing a great job at sticking it to themselves.

So yeah, because anyone up you'd think if you got caught cheating on a walleye tournament, you would not take one hundred dollars counterfeit bills to the bowling alley. I don't know, do you know what I mean? I wouldn't if I do something a little bit bad, I like play it cool for a while, you know what I mean?

So yeah, because anyone up you'd think if you got caught cheating on a walleye tournament, you would not take one hundred dollars counterfeit bills to the bowling alley. I don't know, do you know what I mean? I wouldn't if I do something a little bit bad, I like play it cool for a while, you know what I mean?

You don't double down?

You don't double down?

Yeah, we have a correction on a correction. Can you explain how we're at a point where there's a correction ont of correction?

Yeah, we have a correction on a correction. Can you explain how we're at a point where there's a correction ont of correction?

Okay.

Okay.

So shortly after the podcast the Liberal recordded Trey, Yep, we're.

So shortly after the podcast the Liberal recordded Trey, Yep, we're.

Talking about it was a podcast called The Liberal Redneck Right.

Talking about it was a podcast called The Liberal Redneck Right.

Trey wrote in that he did a little bit more digging and he determined that what he had said on air was incorrect.

Trey wrote in that he did a little bit more digging and he determined that what he had said on air was incorrect.

That he had said that the only thing going for his hometown was they held the wall the small mouth basks yep, world record, right, but then he said they got beat and even that was taken.

That he had said that the only thing going for his hometown was they held the wall the small mouth basks yep, world record, right, but then he said they got beat and even that was taken.

From them, right.

From them, right.

And so before it aired, Phil recorded a little correction and.

And so before it aired, Phil recorded a little correction and.

You know, because we're going to get that Phil.

You know, because we're going to get that Phil.

Uh.

Uh.

He was just a quick little like, hey Phil here, Trey texted and said that you're a little correction back to this.

He was just a quick little like, hey Phil here, Trey texted and said that you're a little correction back to this.

You installed that in the episode, Yes, got here it real quick.

You installed that in the episode, Yes, got here it real quick.

Hey everyone, Phil here with a quick note. Immediately after the show, Trey did some research and found out that Selina and Dale hollow Lake still hold the record for the small mouth bass. According to him, he quote assumed the universe had taken that from us as well. My bad, Thanks Trey, and back to the show.

Hey everyone, Phil here with a quick note. Immediately after the show, Trey did some research and found out that Selina and Dale hollow Lake still hold the record for the small mouth bass. According to him, he quote assumed the universe had taken that from us as well. My bad, Thanks Trey, and back to the show.

So that what happened. Now we're in a situation where there was a correction on a correction because a gentleman wrote in who's this person?

So that what happened. Now we're in a situation where there was a correction on a correction because a gentleman wrote in who's this person?

He lives nearby Kyle due name.

He lives nearby Kyle due name.

Kyle writes in he has this to say. Mister Crowder was not incorrect in saying that the record was taken away. What he would have been incorrect in saying is that it was taken away from the lake. Right you're thinking yourself, what, well, I'll tell you the record was removed from the individual, but the previous record, which would have been the record by default, was also caught in dale Hollow Lake. So even if the record had been permanently redacted, Dale Hollow would still hold the world small mouth record. Two of the top three. This is a hard sentence to understand. Two of the top oh two of the top three, and six of the top ten largest small mouth have damn, you know this person, Well, there's a reason like when you have Let me just tell this person, if you're listening, never start a sentence with a numeral, you always spell it out yeah started.

Kyle writes in he has this to say. Mister Crowder was not incorrect in saying that the record was taken away. What he would have been incorrect in saying is that it was taken away from the lake. Right you're thinking yourself, what, well, I'll tell you the record was removed from the individual, but the previous record, which would have been the record by default, was also caught in dale Hollow Lake. So even if the record had been permanently redacted, Dale Hollow would still hold the world small mouth record. Two of the top three. This is a hard sentence to understand. Two of the top oh two of the top three, and six of the top ten largest small mouth have damn, you know this person, Well, there's a reason like when you have Let me just tell this person, if you're listening, never start a sentence with a numeral, you always spell it out yeah started.

A sentence up to eleven.

A sentence up to eleven.

Yea in some places will make you spell anything under ten every time. Two of the top three and six of the top ten largest small mouth caught have come from Dale Hollow, per Bass Bass Senior Editor Ken Duke. The current record, now confirmed to have been caught in Kentucky waters on the Kentucky and Tennessee shared water body that is Dale Hollow, was wrought with drama. Oh so this gets thicker.

Yea in some places will make you spell anything under ten every time. Two of the top three and six of the top ten largest small mouth caught have come from Dale Hollow, per Bass Bass Senior Editor Ken Duke. The current record, now confirmed to have been caught in Kentucky waters on the Kentucky and Tennessee shared water body that is Dale Hollow, was wrought with drama. Oh so this gets thicker.

Yet this is what trail alluded to before.

Yet this is what trail alluded to before.

So Tennessee and Kentucky share this lake. The current record came out of Dale Hollow Lake, but out of the Kentucky waters. The fish, caught by David Hayes Litchfield, Kentucky, was weighed first on scales that were not certified. After being told this fish, if certified, would be the new world record, the fish was rushed to Cedar Hill Marina, which housed the closest set of certified scales. Six weeks after the fish had been confirmed, David Barlow, a guide on Dale Hollow, filed an affidavit stating that he had handled the fish, shoving multiple pieces of hardware and or weights into its gullet to increase the weight plot dickens, Why did he admit to that?

So Tennessee and Kentucky share this lake. The current record came out of Dale Hollow Lake, but out of the Kentucky waters. The fish, caught by David Hayes Litchfield, Kentucky, was weighed first on scales that were not certified. After being told this fish, if certified, would be the new world record, the fish was rushed to Cedar Hill Marina, which housed the closest set of certified scales. Six weeks after the fish had been confirmed, David Barlow, a guide on Dale Hollow, filed an affidavit stating that he had handled the fish, shoving multiple pieces of hardware and or weights into its gullet to increase the weight plot dickens, Why did he admit to that?

I don't know.

I don't know.

Couldn't live with himself. I don't know.

Couldn't live with himself. I don't know.

Maybe they waterboarded them. The IGFA denounced the world record because of the affidavit. Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources followed suit. Tennessee Wildlife and Resource Agency held on though, and in their investigation found that Barlow was not even at the marina on the day of the fish had been weighed, So he was lying about doing something bad. Hm about do something bad. That's when he puts his own personal integrity, like he's weighing in his head. What matters more my personal integrity or that son of a bitch having the bass record? Yeah, he's like, I'd rather have right, I'll forfeit personal integrity to have him not have the satisfaction of the bass record is how Barlow apparently according to this piece of journalism, so he hadn't been there. This A combinates this in combination with the measurements of this fish. The resulting estimated way of recorded measurements and the official way on the certified scales resulted in the record being reinstated by both IGFA in the Kentucky State Department. The fish now holds the IGFA World Record, the kdfw R State Record, and the TWR A State record.

Maybe they waterboarded them. The IGFA denounced the world record because of the affidavit. Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources followed suit. Tennessee Wildlife and Resource Agency held on though, and in their investigation found that Barlow was not even at the marina on the day of the fish had been weighed, So he was lying about doing something bad. Hm about do something bad. That's when he puts his own personal integrity, like he's weighing in his head. What matters more my personal integrity or that son of a bitch having the bass record? Yeah, he's like, I'd rather have right, I'll forfeit personal integrity to have him not have the satisfaction of the bass record is how Barlow apparently according to this piece of journalism, so he hadn't been there. This A combinates this in combination with the measurements of this fish. The resulting estimated way of recorded measurements and the official way on the certified scales resulted in the record being reinstated by both IGFA in the Kentucky State Department. The fish now holds the IGFA World Record, the kdfw R State Record, and the TWR A State record.

So the International Game and Fish so Siation and then Kentucky and Tennessee's Wildlife departments.

So the International Game and Fish so Siation and then Kentucky and Tennessee's Wildlife departments.

If you're thinking yourself, by God, would I like to get a look at that fish? There's a replica of it at the Kabella's out Post store in Bowling Green, Kentucky. If you want to pay your respects to the angler. The ramp where he launched that day has been memorialized as the David L. Hays bor Go. I love it.

If you're thinking yourself, by God, would I like to get a look at that fish? There's a replica of it at the Kabella's out Post store in Bowling Green, Kentucky. If you want to pay your respects to the angler. The ramp where he launched that day has been memorialized as the David L. Hays bor Go. I love it.

Any point did they say how big the fish was?

Any point did they say how big the fish was?

You know that the story? Now that's called bad producing right there, Crenel, dig yourself.

You know that the story? Now that's called bad producing right there, Crenel, dig yourself.

Out high highs.

Out high highs.

And let's just called twelve. That's a nice moment. That's bad because that go ahead.

And let's just called twelve. That's a nice moment. That's bad because that go ahead.

No, no, you if you've caught a bass that big, would you turn it into a levon fish sandwiches? Or do you you got any urge to have a world record?

No, no, you if you've caught a bass that big, would you turn it into a levon fish sandwiches? Or do you you got any urge to have a world record?

How kept it? How to kept it?

How kept it? How to kept it?

Assuming it's legal to keep it?

Assuming it's legal to keep it?

Yeah? And then pound for pounds? Some people say it's the hardest, hardest fight in freshwater fish is the small mouth bass. That thing would have put up a tussle.

Yeah? And then pound for pounds? Some people say it's the hardest, hardest fight in freshwater fish is the small mouth bass. That thing would have put up a tussle.

Plus you're just awesome looking red eyes, tiger stripes.

Plus you're just awesome looking red eyes, tiger stripes.

Way cooler and large mouse. Uh. We reported on I don't know if that counts. That might be over selling it. We talked about South Carolina is harvest the tag coyote program and win so South Carolina has previously discussed on this show is running a program right now to encourage the harvest of coyotes. I'll point out that our guests Ian Fraser had had a book one time called Coyote v acme Yes, in which you laid out the legal case that Wiley coyote would have against acme Yes, where he buys his stuff to kill road runner. Right. I mean it's.

Way cooler and large mouse. Uh. We reported on I don't know if that counts. That might be over selling it. We talked about South Carolina is harvest the tag coyote program and win so South Carolina has previously discussed on this show is running a program right now to encourage the harvest of coyotes. I'll point out that our guests Ian Fraser had had a book one time called Coyote v acme Yes, in which you laid out the legal case that Wiley coyote would have against acme Yes, where he buys his stuff to kill road runner. Right. I mean it's.

You know, it's product malfeasance. I mean, they're selling this guy, and they're selling it over and over.

You know, it's product malfeasance. I mean, they're selling this guy, and they're selling it over and over.

You know.

You know.

Yeah, one of those things everybody thinks about, but nobody took the time to write.

Yeah, one of those things everybody thinks about, but nobody took the time to write.

Well, you know, and then he also wrote a thing I believe that you argued that if you really wanted to have a good relationship, you date your mother.

Well, you know, and then he also wrote a thing I believe that you argued that if you really wanted to have a good relationship, you date your mother.

Well, that was one of my very very early pieces when I was like twenty five years old.

Well, that was one of my very very early pieces when I was like twenty five years old.

Does this fall under the bad advice category?

Does this fall under the bad advice category?

It was advice I think taken by nobody, nobody I knew, and it wasn't My mother wasn't crazy about it either.

It was advice I think taken by nobody, nobody I knew, and it wasn't My mother wasn't crazy about it either.

But so South Carolina is running a program to encourage coyote harvest in order to, you know, in order to org straight on predator control in the interest of recovering some game species. They have been tagging kylets and cutting them loose, and if you get one of the kyotes that's tagged, you get a lifetime hunting license. And they thought through it enough to be that you could also is it confers out the word I'm looking for where you give.

But so South Carolina is running a program to encourage coyote harvest in order to, you know, in order to org straight on predator control in the interest of recovering some game species. They have been tagging kylets and cutting them loose, and if you get one of the kyotes that's tagged, you get a lifetime hunting license. And they thought through it enough to be that you could also is it confers out the word I'm looking for where you give.

Something to sorry, maybe transfer.

Something to sorry, maybe transfer.

You transferred to somebody else, Meaning if I got one of these kyots, I could give it to my daughter who's who's ten, and then she's got a lifetime hunt license. A guy heard this and was talent wrote in to tell us how in South Dakota they used to tag pheasants and turn them out, and if you shot a tagged pheasant you'd be rewarded with Akabella's gift card. And he just wanted to let us know that he one time was looking at a breasted out pheasant in a ditch and realized that had the band on it.

You transferred to somebody else, Meaning if I got one of these kyots, I could give it to my daughter who's who's ten, and then she's got a lifetime hunt license. A guy heard this and was talent wrote in to tell us how in South Dakota they used to tag pheasants and turn them out, and if you shot a tagged pheasant you'd be rewarded with Akabella's gift card. And he just wanted to let us know that he one time was looking at a breasted out pheasant in a ditch and realized that had the band on it.

So whoever hunted it and.

So whoever hunted it and.

It is coworker took the band down and got a five thousand dollars gift card out of the ditch.

It is coworker took the band down and got a five thousand dollars gift card out of the ditch.

Are you aware of the million dollar pheasant?

Are you aware of the million dollar pheasant?

No?

No?

No, so the same deal and this is a full tourism deal. Fesonomics in South Dakota is fascinating to me. The so they banded one hundred birds, released them. Thirty six birds were turned in, and of those one hundred birds, they had the insurance company randomly select one of those numbers, store it an electronic device in a safe somewhere, and then you know, if somebody turned in that magic number, they could win a million bucks.

No, so the same deal and this is a full tourism deal. Fesonomics in South Dakota is fascinating to me. The so they banded one hundred birds, released them. Thirty six birds were turned in, and of those one hundred birds, they had the insurance company randomly select one of those numbers, store it an electronic device in a safe somewhere, and then you know, if somebody turned in that magic number, they could win a million bucks.

Really yep?

Really yep?

Wow? Is that is that like the state's money?

Wow? Is that is that like the state's money?

You know how these.

You know how these.

Is?

Is?

You?

You?

Because tourism dollars pony.

Because tourism dollars pony.

Up a bunch of cash that is like a deposit eventually and you get it that the money comes from like this insurance payout scenario, as I understand.

Up a bunch of cash that is like a deposit eventually and you get it that the money comes from like this insurance payout scenario, as I understand.

It, But did you think that's true?

It, But did you think that's true?

But I know it's true, But.

But I know it's true, But.

Did anybody did anybody win the million.

Did anybody did anybody win the million.

I'm not sure if anybody ever won the million.

I'm not sure if anybody ever won the million.

Because it kind of seems like they're gambling, like, yeah, I wanted one hundred, it probably will never happen, you know, but you didn't. We don't know if anybody won, right.

Because it kind of seems like they're gambling, like, yeah, I wanted one hundred, it probably will never happen, you know, but you didn't. We don't know if anybody won, right.

Yeah, but there were, you know, thirty six of the bands turned in, and of those thirty six, none of them were million dollar birds.

Yeah, but there were, you know, thirty six of the bands turned in, and of those thirty six, none of them were million dollar birds.

So what makes a little bit of sense what you're talking about is I was at a fundraiser in Wyoming one time, and they were giving away a truck if you could roll a set of dice and get five of a kind, which isn't gonna happen. It's not gonna happen.

So what makes a little bit of sense what you're talking about is I was at a fundraiser in Wyoming one time, and they were giving away a truck if you could roll a set of dice and get five of a kind, which isn't gonna happen. It's not gonna happen.

Okay, maybe if you're playing Yazzi with your grandma, but not if you're playing Yazzi for your truck.

Okay, maybe if you're playing Yazzi with your grandma, but not if you're playing Yazzi for your truck.

So I was there and I was like m seeing. The fundraiser was a nonprofit fundraiser, and they had a guy from the insurance company down there, and the guy weighed all the dice. He came in and analyzed the dice and he measured out where you had to stand and where the dice had to wind up so that it had to be like a legit roll, and he was a supervising. He was like an insurance man supervisor, because no one's gonna roll it, right, So they had bought some sort of policy that on the what are the odds that you'd roll five of a kind? That'd be a quick internet search.

So I was there and I was like m seeing. The fundraiser was a nonprofit fundraiser, and they had a guy from the insurance company down there, and the guy weighed all the dice. He came in and analyzed the dice and he measured out where you had to stand and where the dice had to wind up so that it had to be like a legit roll, and he was a supervising. He was like an insurance man supervisor, because no one's gonna roll it, right, So they had bought some sort of policy that on the what are the odds that you'd roll five of a kind? That'd be a quick internet search.

If I can remember my sick high school probability.

If I can remember my sick high school probability.

It's like a yachtzi roll, right, like five dice five of a kind.

It's like a yachtzi roll, right, like five dice five of a kind.

Is like a one in like like, and then there's like an exponential sort of addition you have to do. It's like five times five times five.

Is like a one in like like, and then there's like an exponential sort of addition you have to do. It's like five times five times five.

We just let someone else do it on the computer.

We just let someone else do it on the computer.

One in seven thousand, seven hundred and seventy six. So it doesn't sound that crazy. So you had no but it is better odds and drawn a sheep tag one in seven thousand, seven hundred and seventy six.

One in seven thousand, seven hundred and seventy six. So it doesn't sound that crazy. So you had no but it is better odds and drawn a sheep tag one in seven thousand, seven hundred and seventy six.

Yeap. You had to first win a chance to roll the dice.

Yeap. You had to first win a chance to roll the dice.

Ooh, that makes it.

Ooh, that makes it.

Yeah, So everybody's all excited about getting to be the dice roller. And then when you get to be the dice roll, you got a one in seven thousand somehow chance the rolling of win the thing. So they insured this somehow, and of course the guy, you know.

Yeah, So everybody's all excited about getting to be the dice roller. And then when you get to be the dice roll, you got a one in seven thousand somehow chance the rolling of win the thing. So they insured this somehow, and of course the guy, you know.

Yeah, just you know, Shake a Day in western bars is a big deal, and it's the same thing. It's like you they're fifty cents, you get a chance, whatever the pot is, and it used to be the pot of all these people losing fifty cents to the Shake a Day would get really high and then the state capt it for because it's gambling. So I think a legal pot is five hundred dollars or less or eight hundred dollars or less now in the state of Montane, I can't remember which. But while I was back in my bartending days, I had several people win Shake a Day pots, right, I mean it eventually it does hit.

Yeah, just you know, Shake a Day in western bars is a big deal, and it's the same thing. It's like you they're fifty cents, you get a chance, whatever the pot is, and it used to be the pot of all these people losing fifty cents to the Shake a Day would get really high and then the state capt it for because it's gambling. So I think a legal pot is five hundred dollars or less or eight hundred dollars or less now in the state of Montane, I can't remember which. But while I was back in my bartending days, I had several people win Shake a Day pots, right, I mean it eventually it does hit.

You can imagine that whoever wins that at a bar does not then just go leave and make a deposit.

You can imagine that whoever wins that at a bar does not then just go leave and make a deposit.

One little asshole kid did, Okay, So I bartended working Man's Bar, okay, and everybody when when a normal patron would win by around all the bartenders got a big tip, you know, and then everybody and then he'd buy a couple of rounds for everybody and then maybe take some winnings home. Yeah, if it was like a regular who happens to be like in their twenties. None of the money maver made at home, they went and.

One little asshole kid did, Okay, So I bartended working Man's Bar, okay, and everybody when when a normal patron would win by around all the bartenders got a big tip, you know, and then everybody and then he'd buy a couple of rounds for everybody and then maybe take some winnings home. Yeah, if it was like a regular who happens to be like in their twenties. None of the money maver made at home, they went and.

Paid rent with it. Well, they they drank it.

Paid rent with it. Well, they they drank it.

They they forgot how the left.

They they forgot how the left.

You're talking about the kid that left.

You're talking about the kid that left.

But the kid one kid comes in watches some other people roll and it was like Halloween nights, something obnoxious and goes, oh, I want to do that, And he's like staring at the dice, and part of me, honest to God, wanted to be like, Okay, see you because I just knew how it was going to go down. And he scooped up the money and ran out of the bar, never to be seen again. It was not the way you're supposed to play the game.

But the kid one kid comes in watches some other people roll and it was like Halloween nights, something obnoxious and goes, oh, I want to do that, And he's like staring at the dice, and part of me, honest to God, wanted to be like, Okay, see you because I just knew how it was going to go down. And he scooped up the money and ran out of the bar, never to be seen again. It was not the way you're supposed to play the game.

I like think he invested all that money. He's a very successful businessman.

I like think he invested all that money. He's a very successful businessman.

Now curing cancer.

Now curing cancer.

More feedback. This this is the last. This is the last, the last up top information we got to cover for today. So what was the name of the show where we talked about down in Florida, Oh, Spitting and Strutton. Yeah, if you refer back to the episode Spitting and Strutton, we had a guest down who was explaining to me how someone he knows hates me because a person from the USGS said how Python eradication programs are not effective in Florida, and he hates me for not arguing with him. Okay, that individual, that former guest who spoke on Burmese Python the Burmese Python explosion in Florida wrote in, so I have a note to the hater. I didn't catch his name, but as someone shared, I was, I looked at his Instagram page. He has a Well, it doesn't matter. So Bob Reid wrote in to say, this is the researcher from the USGS who works on population ynamic issues with invasive Burmese pythons in South Florida. He said, sorry to hear that a dude in Florida hates you because I said there's no evidence that the Python control programs are having a significant effect on populations at landscape scales. He doesn't say, however, but you could. There's an implied However. He goes on to say, we just published a big scientific review of pythons in Florida. The conclusion from the removal program section remains the same, no available evidence of Python suppression across the landscape despite removal of over thirteen thousand pythons. He said it's hard for people to comprehend just how cryptic they are and therefore how many are out there for everyone you catch. As for panthers, he says, yes, yeah, they hammer white tails. They did. We reported on this in the past, but I'm going to re talk about it. As for you folks in Florida who think that your deer hunting has gone shit due to panther recovery, if that is your if that is how you weight values, okay, if that is how you weight values, you are like if we look at just the isolate the question our this is that this is not that you that this has nothing to do with loving panthers, hating panthers whatever, Just like like an objective reality is panthers hammer white tails. Okay. They did some work. They did some known fate survival data, meaning they put two and forty one collars out on adult deer in the Florida Panther National Wildlife Refuge in Big Cyprus National Preserve in Florida from twenty twenty fifteen to twenty eighteen. They put collars on two hundred and forty one white tail deer, one hundred and fifty six females eighty five males. No follow along here. Okay. They then wait for there to be a mortality signal on the deer, and they immediately go out and investigate what happened to the deer. They had one hundred and thirty four mortalities. Now, Sandy, take a guess. One hundred and thirty four mortalities. Take a guess at what number of those were killed by panthers? Do a lower one. I want I give you the answer. I wanted to be more astounded. I hate when people do that. Man, obviously that's my kids. Guess how much money I found million? No, out of seven dollars, forget that part, edit that out, Phil, Okay, out of one hundred and thirty four mortalities, one hundred and ten were predation. Now, people that go and say like, oh, hunters, get them all, not even listen to this. Predators, non human predators. I always like to point out that, like human predators are predators. Non human predators killed one hundred and ten out of one hundred and thirty four, eighty seven percent of that one hundred and ten were panthers. Okay, he says, a much greater rate than reported by studies conducted before the panther genetic restoration effort, which was initiated in nineteen ninety five. One deer okay, one hundred and thirty four mortalities. When we originally talked about this study, we originally talked about God's a long time ago. We talked about the study because we talked about the state of Florida trying to say to hunters, if you see a deer or the collar, don't shoot it because it has a collar, and don't not shoot it because it has a collar. Try to act normal because they're trying to find out what kills deer. So if you're like, oh my god, it's got a collar, shoot it, you're messing up the study. And if you say, like, if you're like me and you said, I'm not gonna shoot a deer with a collar because that means another person has touched it and it's soiled. I want to be the first person to touch it, you're messing up the study. So if people were true to that and really just shot deer, if they would have shot it, one hundred and thirty four deer out on the landscape with collars. One was killed legally by a hunter, two were killed by poachers just gives you an insane like like, who is killing deer in Florida? It ain't people. And of the three killed by people, two of a poachers. It's it's very like isolated. It's it's it's it's like, uh, it's borderline, and it's beyond anecdotal. It's not anecdotal conclusive. It's just like, holy cow. So when you're in Florida, like I just was two weeks talking to people, and everyone you meet says the deer hunting went to ship because the panthers and everyone I talked to, I'm like, oh, there's gotta be more to the story. I can't really you know, damn.