So the atmosphere is good, you like, I mean beautiful, It's gonna be better. Should have had a fire going. We're good Phil, you got the machine on the jeans on. It's amazing. Fires in Texas technology. Oh, Phil records everything to Phil could make the worst. Phil could destroy career. He can make the best of us seem like the worst seem like, but he won't. That's the beauty in the long game here. We need that part about Billy Joel and that intro beautiful. I'm dying to know about Billy Joel. Hired guns, the stars can really the lure to prick world is is overwhelming. Once you get catered to and you have people's service and you don't have to order your own room service, and they know how much cream you want in your cough, all of a sudden you go, hey, give me some of that. Just sit back here and indulge and get bored and then end up getting high and then drooling and dying or just becoming a prick. So there's an indulgent pathway too. There's a self inflicting indulgence curse in the world of celebrity. They should all bow hunt because the deer don't give a ship how many platinum albums I got. It's really boils down to that. That's awesome. As you can hear, ladies and gentlemen, we're joined today. We're in Texas, joined today by Mr Ted Nugent as we call in Michigan uncle Ted uncle Ted. This is not we gotta do a few things up top. I want just to set stage here. This is not the first time you would know this. This is not the first time you and I were in the same room together. Well only because of this reason, because I am a two time alum of the Whiplash Bash, then no wonder you glow. The spirit emanates from your very skeleton. The most memorable, uh, the most memorable Whiplash Bash I went to is memorable to me because you throughout into the crowd a bag of venison, jerky, metish jerk. My friend, my late friend, very close friend of mine that I graduated from high school with, Eric Kern, caught a piece of jerky. Awesome. He and I a real nugent fan. By the way, when you could catch you Jernky, that's a legitimate nugent fash shared you know, maybe I'm making that up. He wand up with the chunk of the jersey. Whether you pick it off the floor, you're stealing from somebody. No, he recovered the jerky that you might not remember. That night you had the Uh your opening act for that Whiplash bash was the band Jackal I do remember with the chainsaw and they had that very popular lumberjack song with a chainsaw solo had to be huge in Michigan. Yeah, he came out. There was full frontal nudity on his part. Uh. He came out, did the chainsaw solo? You shot your bow? Ye? Then here's what this gets especially good. Interesting it was either that year or the year before. But then you went on to get arrested in Ohio for shooting your bow and city limits in a flaming arrow, which I had done. And you got arrested, but you got reprimanded. Oh, I got arrested. I was taking away in handcuffs. It's a great story. Details of this story or fashion, because I have to say this is public speaking of the audience. Your well better than that, because you should know, because not just I want you to tell the archery story just says a teaser like the just how you got in trouble in Ohio, but another like I can't. So there's a few years and we were always like me or my brothers. And someone was at the Whiplash Bash during the height of the Whiplash Bash days. This is like early nineties. Ye have phenomenal concerts. So they saw it one time where you went to you were shooting your bow on stage and went to shoot I believe it was a white buffalo, giant white buffalo, missed it and then got on your knees and bowed to it. And I didn't follow up with the hart shot. But then you, yeah, surely after that we were appalled to hear that you then traveled out of your home state into Ohio or they didn't have the same reverence for the stage antics and you got busted for shooting your bow like discharging a weapon within city. Was an open flame thing, which which I'm surprised you didn't arrest my road manager. He was an open flame um. The stories behind each one of these instants are fascinating because I would shoot my born arrow on stage, typically a flaming arrow, at various targets all the way back with the Amboy Dukes in the nineteen sixties, and as much as the mystical flight of the arrow mystifies in the environment of outrageous cacophony and sonic bombasted, screaming and tall, skinny guys with loyal class, I mean, the environment is so centrally overwhelming. And then this guy that just saying wang dangee pun dang comes out with a flaming arrow and shoots a skull off the amps. I mean, if you want an archery demonstration that imprints, I'm your daddy. But in this in this series of events, I would shoot a flaming arrow on stage at a giant buffalo silhouette or various three D targets. And in the Kalamazoo event, well, let's go to the Northern Michigan one where I missed the buffalo. So I'm up on stage. You guys can only imagine the energy level and the the excitement within me because I love this music and you can't casually play my music, and you can't casually ride a buffalo, and you can't casually shoot flaming arrows on stage in front of twenty thousand people. It's all dangerously intense, and I have to manage my psyche like when you're about to touch off a shot, the breathing sight, acquisition the halfway eggxhale, and then boom. That's a calming moment in an otherwise excitable endeavor. Magnify that to a dangerous, life threatening level. And that's what I go through every night on stage. Because I loved the bow and arrow. I do have target panic. But when I was up there in northern Michigan at the at the Castle, I think it was called up near Charlavoy, where I missed the buffalo, I got a stage bow that comes back at about forty pounds because I'm only twenty ft from the target and I gotta come back without too much stress. Well, my assistant had shot had dry fired my stage bow and it came apart. So he handed me my hunting bow and I'm shooting thirty four inch arrows because they're on fire, and all of a sudden he has me a bow and it's not the right bow. So my mind's going, Holy Mother of God, I've got to be a good archer because it's the whack master Mr Ted, Mr here. Yeah, So all of a sudden, my psyche goes it's the rug bow. Um but I said, well, improvised it happ and overcome, so I drew it back, and of course that bow is not sighted in for a twenty yard TWT shot at a silhouette and I shot right over him. But I did grab a second arrow and I shot him through the heart. And then I thought, I think I grabbed a third arrow when shot my assistant through the heart. But the flaming arrow, and in Cincinnati was fascinating because I had shot a flaming arrow there dozens of times over the years. No problem, no, no open flame ordinance. But the backstory is celebratory. So the new fire chief, a Democrat, liberal guy, an animal rights guy, brings in his guys and um arrest me, handcuffed me for shooting that flaming arrow. Totally under control. We have wet towels, we have fire extinguishers. Believe me, I'm prepared for everything, especially dangerous possibilities. So they take me to jail, I handcuffed behind. After the show, yeah, right after they let us finish, because you know what happened. It wasn't like the brothers were very much like it, and they actually looked like those guys because the cops were piste off. They didn't want to arrest me, but they had to follow because there was an open flame ordinance I was virtually unaware of because of my history of shooting flaming arrows in this facility. I'm pleading ignorance, no whatever. So they took me to jail. Well, I go before the judge and he's another prick, and he sentenced me to jail, and I got a concert the next night, play every night. I do concerts every night. Sentences you to jail that without bond, and put me in a cage. So here's the here's the beauty of Ted news why I love Ted nugent Um. Then if you could speak on his back, which I do on an hourly basis, by the way, intimately and knowledgeably. Um. The sheriff came to that cell and forced that jail keeper to let me out, and he said, over my dead body, will I have Ted Nwton spend a minute in my jail for all you do for clean and sober promotion and law and order promotion, and whenever a cop gets injured in the line of duty, I'm always there raised money for their families. I have this history going back to when I was a late teenager. I've always been a law and order guy. So he said, over my dead body with Ted Nuton's spend any time in jail, and he cut me loose. And then the attorneys went into it and they examined all the evidence, and the charges were thrown out. My record was quashed. But that was a great experience. Where you get a guy that doesn't like flaming arrows, or the guy that shoots flaming arrows, especially if he carries a gun and kills innocent animals, you know that mindlessness. He in a political position can abuse that power. He did. And a guy who knew good over evil and right over wrong regardless of some statute. I'll give you an offshoot here. So a deer has caught an offense and a coyote has already eaten half of his ass, and he's struggling and traumatized and suffering. I'm going to call somebody. I'm not gonna call somebody. It's illegal for me to shoot that dear. In order'm gona do. I'm gonna shoot that dear. I break the law. I break immoral laws if it's an imral law and an unjust law, especially as a cop. If it's an oath violating law, I'm not obeying it. So in these instances there is a higher level of right over wrong. I happened to have mutual confidence. Did I know what that level is? And that that sheriff did for example, when we turn this when when that dispatching a deer suffering a suffering deer is a certain moral plane, and firing flame and arrows on stage is a different moral plane. After after twenty years of doing so, yep, I think I think there is a parallel where I'm gonna take you on a journey to exciting parallel to the center of your mind. Yeah, this is I wrote it, and it come along if you can. What a great song. Listen, we're reviewing that song last night because I was trying to I was I was I was giving sort of I was giving me crean sort of a crash course and all things nugent, and I was inviting I was inviting her to reconcile your your life long advocacy for abstemiousness deposed with the lyrics have come along if you can, to the center of your mind, which one might think was a call to do halluciness great, What a great story. You want the story? It's a phenomenal and it's just a juxtaposition. And I can latch the two in a seamless joint. Please makes fiery arrows? How my friends have always been? How could nugent be abstemious if he's inviting people to go to the center of their mind. There was a movie called Journey to the Center of the Earth. And when you're a songwriter, especially when you're a teenager, you kind of grasp on colloquialisms and terms and maybe movie statements or other song titles. And when you're a bow hunter, your your your radar is more expansive than the average hippie you collaborate with. So when when Steve Farr a T shirt, which was a collaborative hippie I was collaborating with um, he was stoned. I had no idea because when I was growing up it was bows and arrows, stalking the Rouge River, learning chuck Berry music and girls. I had no idea why the cheshire cat was grinning in Alice in Wonderland and that that was a bong. Are you guys lost? Okay, good, We're in a good arena here. I had no idea. I didn't know what marijuana was. I performed at you of d and Catholic Central Pool, Partisan SA cops, and the beating was pre hippies with the bretum was Jobe Gillis kind of stuff um and and I had no idea what dope was. So when Steve Farmer roe Journey in the Center of the Mind, I went, that's a great plan words of that movie title, and I think a person probably should sit back once in a while, like I do every year season and examine where he's going in life, and review his mindset and his dreams and his goals. Doesn't surprise anybody here, I suspect or anybody else that has a brain. So I went along, come along if you care, come along if you dare, take a ride to the So, yeah, made perfect sense. I had no idea there was a chemical warfare component to that until I caught Steve drooling and eventually throwing up and stumbling, which solidified my hatred for chemical warfare upon oneself. I hate it. I hate people that intentionally destroy their level of awareness and intentionally slither into the liability column instead of the asset column. That's what drugs and alcohol due to you case close Keith Richard's notwithstanding great guy. Um, so I developed a hatred for that, witnessing my fellow musicians who I so revered and so pursued a united dream of musical adventure and creativity until they started puking and dying, and I just and again it goes back to my bow hunting nobody drunk or stoned kills the deer of the bone arrow virtually impossibly named Rick. You must you must hunt South Texas because they're really dumb deer down there. Um. The point is is that I had no idea when they when they showed me the cover of Journey The Center of the Mind, I saw this. I thought it was blown glass. You know how you make vazes and little Yeah, I had no idea what they were. Have you been asked this question for thousands of times? I had no idea what they were because I was so into my organic cravings for guitar music, bow hunting and girls. What a that's the what do they call that down in uh Louisiana? The trinity for the food? Yes, that's the trinity for my American dream? What is it? Again? It's as the Pope's hat as the garlic, so with yeah, that's a freesome. That would be the I do have a freesome. She's upstairs, um, so yeah, that was my goal I had. I'm so happy that I never understood or pursued the puke lifestyle. I just I it's ruined everybody's lives. I read recently that you have I think you had said this somewhere that you have taken to having a little red wine now, and I do. I absolutely since I met Shamayne um and whine after a modicum of research, it's good for you. It's actually good for you and my my son's, my my brother, my sister, and my friends and my band crew. They drink beers and they have a sun Downer and they have what Sammy Hagar's got is whatever that stuff is. Yeah, And as long as we can communicate and that and the drool and the stumbling doesn't occur, you can do whatever you want to do. I have friends that smoke dope, and I've got friends that I got to stop smoking dope. Eddie van Halen. His first call after rehab was to me to thank me for constantly pounding on him that you're ruining your life. You've got this gift, you're ruining it, You're ruining the people around you. And I'm hard core. I don't know if you've noticed that about me, but I've helped people get clean and sober by showing them that you want fun, you want crazy, I'm the bar. I've set the bar for funding crazy without outside stimuli. It's inside of me. God gave us whatever we need to do whatever we want every day, and it doesn't come in a bottle. It comes from the guts, comes from the spirit. And I've always promoted that. So if you go to my Facebook and witness the number of people that I've impacted to become clean and sober and to pursue sobriety, I'm very very proud of that. Okay, Clay, flaming arrows, go ahead, and then I gotta do the stuff I gotta do, gonna come back. We're going to come back in hard. We're going way back into our conversation. But I have a real functional question I could go there about how do you shoot? What what? What? What do you use to make a flaming arrow? Well, I had to pursue that with the people at Eastern arrows because I was hired one time to shoot the opening arrow um like the Olympic archer did for the International Olympics one time. Remember that awesome? I mean you actually shot the Olympic arrow I did in the Michigan Olympics. Yeah, and they hired me. So I didn't because when i shot my flaming arrows on stage, i'd get a full length back then it was cedar arrows and I'd have to get full length or for it. Yeah, but we'd wrap it in in uh cotton and rillo pads and soaking in lighter fluid, and the I hold the bow in the arrow and my brother John, God rest his soul, got some stories I could tell you. It's just I've had so much fun I'm almost guilty. Um, And they'd like this flaming arrow and wed I had. I shot a vulture one time from my Yamaha with my forty four magnet. I shot the vulture and the taxing rooms mountited it. It's all illegal so far. I hope there's statutes of limitations on this podcast. And we had that vulture mounted with wings spread out. We put a back late on. You don't know how cool that would look with some smoke on stage. How rock and roll is that? And my brother would set up those uh styrofoam heads that ladies put their wigs on overnight, and we'd we'd put like a skeleton look to it, and he would put lighter fluid inside it, and we'd get some kind of feathers in various methods and stick him out of the skull. So it was really graphic. And that's that kind of rock and roll imagery that like the heavy metal guys used. And I draw that arrow back, but I'd have to shoot it fast. It was all with the re curves and longbows, and I'd shoot that skull off. The appened the fultu and people didn't know whether that the ship to go blinding. Guys got a ball arrow. It was awesome, but eventually the flame wouldn't go out. No, But eventually when I did it, and I prowled the stage more in an extent more than a moment or two, that had to keep going. And I think I might have some of those arrows here, but Easton made me some forty injures that they put a little cone on to reduce the air flowing onto the flames. So it would last longer. That's how they did. They made the Olympic arrow for the International Olympics, and they made me a bunch of those, and so it would have a little comb to protect the flame from the wind drift. And again we a rapid with billow pads and and cotton and dowser. It was. It's so graphic because that I talk mystical flight of the arrow, which why I've always used big feathers, white feathers, and I always used white arrows like Ben Pearson, Howard Hill, Fred bare The always shot white arrows because the archery is the arch, and you should witness the arch and instinctive shooting. You have to you have to imprint those arches. Part of the white arrow was visual, yes, and so with the flaming. So you're speaking to cow because Cayl Phill uses old timmy bows, Yeah, I do too. I was so powerful, you know what I mean? Yeah, shoot traditional archery. I mean what I've been hunting with you. Yeah, I mean I come in and out of it. But thin the more you shoot instinctive old I won't call him traditional because I'm it doesn't matter what kind of bows in my hand I'm purely traditional wind Son spirit stealth, higher level of technical tactical awareness. But the more you shoot an old fashioned instinctive, the next time you shoot your compound, you'll be the best shot you've ever been with a compound, because there's something about that muscle memory and under a full tension without the reduction, and getting that string to roll off those fingers right about here. There's no Joe Biden about here. It's true. It's true. Here you're saying you're clear in your mind center as you pull back your your irritation. Believe me, when I head towards my bow rack, the irritations are gone. By the way, the ultimate use of the term irritations that my spirit irritates their demons skull really really quick. We're getting some beard, rub I bet you why. That's cool. It's like organic about that. Can I jump to the uh my high school when we were talking about the sobriety. Yeah, yeah, that's great. Okay, So here's the plan. Here's the plan. You do that. You do that, I'm gonna do some things I need to do. We're gonna come back. We're not getting to the agendas. Nothing so far needs to be edited, We're gonna come back, and I'm gonna refer to a a what I took to be in a previous conversation, a crossbow gesture you made, Yes I did, and hold it. We're gonna come back. But if cal has another near a Nugent near miss yeah, so it almost got you. High school like pep rally, okay, And somebody had selected a Ted Nugent song and I look over look over at a teacher of mine. It's kind of shaking her head. And we listened toed probably like the height of the era in the high school locker room, uh, weight lifting room and all that stuff. Football right, And I was like, oh, I don't like Ted Nugim. She's like one time he came and spoke here. So apparently you had a hunt in Montana and somebody, yes I did, to speaking at her high school with the Rocky Mountain Oolk Foundation in Missoula. So hell Gate High School, Missoula, Montana, and the whole the whole speech was like thousands I've done. I do it all the time, being clean and sober, being the best that you can be. God, Family, Country, Constitution, build of Rights, ten Commandments, Golden Rule, law and order, putting your heart and soul into being the best that you can be. That mantra actually pisces off horrible people. So you were looking at the horrible person. That's not what made the person mad. It sounds like he came in a little hot and delivered the ten Commandments, Uh, God, Country, freedom with a lot of cussing to I might have said the word ship. And if God knows, by the way, when I when I said the word ship, I think eleven children died that day. How about this? Her priorities are askew I made. I was voted the number one DARE officer in the United States of America Drug Resistance education. And you gotta know your crowd not not no, you have to be honest. I don't really give a damn about my crowd. I'm gonna be honest. If my crowd has a problem with it, they're bad people. How's that there's a generous I swear. So if she had a problem from listen to this dog. If you have a problem with something, Ted says, you're a bad person, let me let me let me make sure you understand that. But so the the presentations about being clean and sober, and she focused on the word ship, which which connected me closer to those children that she is incapable of. She could not have saved a child's life to get off substance abuse. I did you have a problem with Ted? Nu just says you're a bad person, your priorities are askew, and you're not accomplishing anything meaningful each ship and die. How's that? A teacher? Teachers? She also ran the Key Club, in which I was an officer. So you want to let her slide a little by the way that last statement I made, he is part of Howard slide. But that's the punchline of the of the your story. She was upset with him for customers. There more we made really interesting to me. It was that was like the first time that that somebody she then had to explain to me, because I was like truth, was like bullshit. This guy Wango tangoes clean, sober living guy, I'm like bullshit. And and so she had to explain to me the abstinence decide better Ted than Dad, and I just stuff I couldn't. Yeah, it was like it was so probably seventeen the thought of that being associated with rock and roll in any sort of way. It was just like two ships passing in the night, like not not the same thing. So that was pretty eye opening experience. You know, if I'm anything, I'm an eye opener um because I don't play status quo games. In fact, I stomp it every day of my life. If anything, status quo is not good for you, um any, especially in the world of what we've seen, our education plummet too, and she is an indication of that. She's a manifestation of that cultural deprivation where their priorities are askew. Instead of trying to save children from the the peer pressure lie, she's cautious about her presentation, which means that children don't believe her. And if she was involved with something positive, I salute all her positive moves. But when it comes to the street dangers of substance abuse running a muck, you better have a hard core son of a bitch delivering that message, because if it's somebody adjusting to tie and being cautious about what they say, the kids will laugh in their face and probably smoke more dope here that Yeah, here we go. Uh. This year's TRC piece, sweep Snakes, has already started now here's the deal of the entry period runs through April. This is the this is the We've done us a bunch of times. Now. The grand prize is a turkey hunt trip with me in Michigan. That's not there because he's said, come on, people are attention for one second, they're gonna be I heard that. Come on, So three night, two day hunt you and a buddy in southwestern Michigan. Go to www dot t r cp dot org slash sweep Steaks by April at midnight. All donations we'll support t r CPS mission to guarantee all Americans quality places the hunting fish. See official rules for details on how to enter without making a donation. That's always like a little legal thing. If I was gonna become an attorney, and I used to think maybe I would, I would focus on raffle and sweep steaks. The law that's the most bullshit ridden world. Yes, like you you're really your a little kid, and you like have to buy like the Captain Crunch to enter to win, like a in your box top and then you or or you don't need to buy Captain Crunch, you just write a letter. It's sweep stakes law is a horrible regardless of donations. Okay, so so go there if you if you wanna learn how to enter to win the hunt without actually doing anything to support the organization. There's a way around this. All go to the official rules regardless of donation status. There is a limit of five hundred entries per person for the entire interviewer. Now I'd like to get into here's the thing. There's two things. I'm at a torn here because I would like to talk about how much we raised through this annual event, but that would make people feel like they had a low chance of winning. So I'm not gonna talk about it. But it's important people that enter every year, four or five people interviewear. In fact, on May we're doing last year's winners are meeting me and Yanni on the farm to hunt turkeys on May. I'm flying there on May ten for last year's winners, but we're talking about the next group of winners. Uh oh. Also another announcement, Billings Live Show is May three, Alberta Beart Theater, Billings, Montana me eatter Live uh Alberta Beart b ai R. Go to their website to get tickets. Tickets are live now disclaimer not in Alberta, not in Alberta, Billings, Montana. Yeah, Michael Hunter, the chef up in Canada that he got excited when he saw that, but then he read more carefully realized it wasn't in Canada at Alberta. Get Alberta and Girls right Alberta Beart Theater, Billings, Montana, May three event. Uh, cow will be there. Get your tickets now. Uh. The Land Access Initiative, when are we running the auction house of odys. It's gonna be middle of April, so right around April fift Okay, so uh, we're doing two things right now. We're we're soliciting submissions for the Land Access Initiative. How long is they're hunting and fishing for America? Yeah? So if you know, like the ifect spot for a boat launch, I keep throwing that example on easement from through private to public, anything that provides more access to hunting and fishing for America. If you have good ideas where we could implement this, go to the meat eater dot com. Underneath conservation there's our Land Access Initiative and you can submit a project or property. This can be individuals, this can be UM state and federal agencies. If it provides more access, we're gonna take a hard look at it, hopefully raise a bunch of money. We're gonna throw in a bunch of money of our own. Last year we raised over seventy tho dollars, sorry, two years ago, over seventy thou dollars for our first project, which was Shiloh Pond, which was uh public use area that was threatened of going away forever. And now it belongs to the town ship of Kingsfield Main and is open to public access in perpetuity. You can fish it, hunt it. Good for you. That's a beautiful There's a lot of that out there here. Another quick point. I think we had the bumps some stuff, but I ain't to raised this point Clay. If you listen to Clay's show, Bear Grease, you've heard his the Jerry like I think I told you about Jerry Clowd. You you need to prove to me that you knew about Jerry clarr before I told you about Jerry Clowds. You when you said that to me context we did the episode. Let me back up and we're gonna get back to our guess. People are from with the Grand Old Opry. Between acts at the Grand Old Opry, there's a guy Jerry Cloward used to get up and tell like coon hunting stories at the Grand Old Opry. That's a grand I listening to Jerry Clower. Yeah, and I I told I think I said, if you like coon hun you are to listen to Jerry Cloward. And then Clay did a whole episode in Jerry Clower and Credit in which he neglected, not only to Steve is really upset he neglected. I don't think he even brings up the fact that I grew up listen Jerry Clark, or that you should have interviewed me, because I could quote any Jerry Clark story. I think Phil edited that part out. No, you did mention Jerry Clowd to me, but that wouldn't have been the claim that that was the first you were the person that introduced me to Jerry Clower would be inaccurate. So but but now that you say that, I do remember you mentioned in that one time to me you did mention Jerry Clowd. And and the Jerry Clowd episode which will have already come out now some people would have heard it on Bargrease it. It came on super quick, and so Steve I just didn't have time. I actually thought about texting you to see if he even knew who he was, because but he literally didn't have time for text so fast. Yeah, when you hear the episode, you'll hear me make some assumptions about people who know who Jerry Cloud is and you would not fit into that assumption. Is it Cloud or Clower? He was. He was a Southern comedian and he wouldn't tell His thing was he wouldn't tell a story that he wouldn't stand up from his church to tell. So he would he would have he would have clashed because Jerry Clowd you would use no profanity as a comedian, but would tell these wonderful coon hunting stories. Now here's how I know him. My my mom was from the suburbs of Chicago, like which is now a suburb but was then farm country. She was a w g N, the radio station w g N. She like, she had country music radio stays and they covered the sports, so they covered she was clubs cubs, right. She would like when she moved up to Michigan, you know, she'd be out there wrapping aluminum foil around the antenna and shipped to try to listen to w g N. Clower used to now and then go on w g N to tell a story. So that's my whole connection to Cloud. Yeah, respect the Houston, the South. One last thing that we're back to our guess this is a burning question. I was questioning why when you put a radio collar on a mountain, lion or whatever, why you have it pull its location every thirteen hours? And I said, that's weird. Why would you not like it? Seems like most people be like, oh, I haven't do it every twelve hours. What's the magic of every thirteen hours? Heffelfinger and a bunch of other people rolled in to explain. Jim Heffelfinger says, the reason radio collars are set to record the location every thirteen hours, so they are collecting locations every clock hour in the twenty four hour cycle. I'll go on and not following if you set it for noon and midnight only. If you set it for noon and midnights on a twenty four hour cycle, you only know where they are at noon or midnight, and you probably only find out where they like to bed down if you set it for thirteen hours. You get a location at one pm one day, then two am, then three pm, then four am. After a month, you have locations for every hour on the clock. Then you take all those data points and analyze what you're doing at any time during the twenty four hour cycle you're interested in. With turkeys, we often collect every hour during daylight hours and then pull one point at eleven fifty nine pm to get the nightly roost location. Now, Fred Bear, No, actually I've I've got a quick before we get too far away from public education and Ted Nugent, I've got a public education, which is I do? Yeah, I've got some Ted story that's true. I wasn't even gonna bring us up. And I'm afraid to now that I heard you obliterate Cal's teacher. So I went to dedicator life to public education. Okay, So I went to Evergreen High School in Vancouver, Washington. Uh. My first week of high school, this teacher, I'll mention his name in a SEC rolls in that I think I do. He rolls in, you know, he goes to a v room, rolls in an old TV in a VCR, starts telling Hi a story about how he used to be a songwriter in Los Angeles. His name was Randy Kate. Does that name ring any bells? And he sticks in a VHS state. I think it was probably my second day of high school and we watched the video for a song called Tied Up in Love, which he says he co wrote. Could be Okay, I don't know if I attribute that name to that song, but if he says so, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Okay, he was really proud of it piece, and just give it to him. Yeah, a great piece of music with Brian Howe, God Rest his soul, who I hired for that album Penetrator in the eighties and uh and uh, Brian just here passed away here a couple of years ago. Just a great, great British singer who ended up singing lead for Bad Company for two years and wrote there some of their biggest songs. Um. But that song was on the Penetrator album and it's it's a well known song and it's a killer song. But he did it on keyboards, which I don't care for, and I do it on guitar, which I really care for. Yeah. Yeah, anyways, want to say that forever stuff? Who who doesn't have a Ted Nugent start around for seing does I got, I got it, I got I gotta tell what it'll be so short, so ted I grew up. You know, I'm in the nineties was kind of my peak time of damn taking in taking outdoor media. My dad was a big bow hunter, so we watched all the Arkansas and so my dad's really good friend, John mesco he they loved you guys. John had a zebra striped jeep Ted Nugent style zebra stripe jeep, and he had he also had this is my dad's best friend, and you know, kind of like a second dad to me. And he also had the Oneida Eagle whack Master stripe. So I mean we were we were big into all that and and there really is a lot of stories. I've been around a long time. I got a big mouth. I celebrate my life. I celebrate the American dream. I celebrate all the good stuff and condemn all the bad stuff. I'm I'm what the Founding Fathers wanted all Americans to be. You can laugh all you want, engaged, engage, they want they wanted us to be engaged. I'm engaged, and I'm considered radical because I'm engaged. I'm considered radical because I spot like cockroaches who abuse power. Well, did you mind your own business? America is my business. Freedom is my business. So everybody's got a story. And if you follow me around anywhere, whether it's Whole Foods and the pierced nipple, guys come out and want to talk about venison and ten millimeters or the Starbucks where you wouldn't think it was Ted Nugent country. In Mill Valley, California, the purple haired gal wants to know what kind of guns you should buy her grandma. My confidence level is dangerous, but I'm humbled by deer. So everybody does have a Ted Nugent story, because unless you've been living under a rock, you had to have witnessed me raise hell or have fun, or be a smartass, or just live a fire breathing freedom lifestyle. So it is I think a universal truism that I've left a vapor trail because I'm engaged. I'm hardcore engaged. They call him Kim trail these days, accept minor not toxic um. So when um for like, Okay, I grew up in Michigan and I graduated high school and it's like and why and whanting to come talk to you. One of the primary the reasons you've had relevance to me my whole life is uh, what you meant two guys like me at that juncture, like at that time in our life, particularly when it came to sort of a crescendo in the Fred Bear era where it was like we liked Um. We all my friends I would grow up hunting Um and Austin. Here is this person from our area who celebrated that area and just really in a popular way, really spoke to a thing that we cared a lot about, and it was like finding uh representation at that time and just to help people understand sort of like how that like permeated culture, that culture in that era is. I remember one day I was driving and I was driving out for the opening day archery season and I was hunting this I was hunting the area of Manaseee National Forest, which you know well it was a little place on the White River, and it was probably an hour before daylight listening to FM radio. Fred came on and the guys like, hey, man, like I know what's going on right now with a lot of you out there and here's something for you. And then sort of the pre morning darkness and it hit as I was going down to two tracks through Manassee National Forest, He's like, you'll know what it means and would roll fred Bear. I'm talking like mainstream FM radio and he picked he picked his moment with like he knew you know, it was just like it was. If it wasn't for me, he wouldn't have known. Probably probably in that case that he was like a rock and roll like a disc jockey. You know. That was back when like FM read like had like live people sitting there making selections. But it was, um, it was like it was deeply impactful at that time. I want but what I want to do is how like talk about how you got tangled up an archery and what the connection to Fred Bear, like who Fred Bear was and what was going on in bow hunting at that time. You mentioned earlier that you know, the first archery season and you mentioned the first guy to legally kill a deer the bow in Wisconsin. George Yea, Like, how did you, like, how did you get tangled up in that world and how did you become into Fred Bear? Well, first of all, and why did he take you seriously? You know, let me out maximize the spotlight on your anecdot out of hearing the fread Bear song on a rock and roll radio station, celebrating You're very pulse at that moment, and how I've heard is it tens of thousands of those stories probably, And I have trained the otherwise anti hunting media rock and roll dopers to celebrate conservation because of that song, which was organic and spontaneous and uncontrollable. When that song happened, as anything in life. I was born in Detroit along the Rouge River in Detroit, which was a wildlife paradise. The pheasanisant quail. It's just, oh my god. I my essence was learning to slither onto a covey of quail like a pointing dog. And how that happened. Dad was already a follower of fred Bear when I was born forty eight. He already had a bow. I got his bow in the other room there, and we would go north every October, including October I was ten months old, and and hunt the Mandaesee National Forest and up a near standish and hillman hawks and up around uh Manistee, and I think every kid back then had a Daisy red Rider BB gun episode homemade sling shots. Everybody made homemade sling shots. Um, everybody made a homemade bow and arrow. I mean where I was in Detroit, but everybody made a bow and arrow. Go down to the Rouge River and cut down a sapling and flex it for and get a bailing twine and bend it and cut some other ones and try to get them straight and shoot those arrows. I think it's as primal a calling as exists. It's probably projectile management, slash sex. You need to propagate and you need to protect and feed. It's it's as raw as your breath. And because my dad was a bow hunter, and because of that era, following World War Two, my god, what a positive, glowing, good over evil universal celebration where we crushed the Nazis because the g I s had freedom to come home to which made their warrior spirit more dangerous, more wonderful, and the work ethic, the community, the pride of accomplishment, and the forced pride of accomplishment by by my dad. What a son of a bit. It was a paid to the ask growing up, but boy did it pan out. Was a veteran, Yes, World War two Korea, US Army Cavalry jewel sergeant, and he never stopped I could anyhow, So the discipline of gun safety, the discipline of instead of bumbling into cova quail, but learning to walk slower. And this looks like perfect oail habitat. I think I'll get down on the ground now and see if there's any quail over there, and then I would literally snake and learn the lessons that your teacher missed that cause and effect without due respect, she she missed out on it. She never slithered up on a cover your quail. I'm sure she had lessons and cause and effect, but nothing more emphatic at that mushy brained youth of mind, your mushy brained, and you're picking up on information. If your parents nurture and discipline you to pick up in information because you can't make the same mistake twice or will knock your block off. You ever heard that term before goes with nose to the grindstone and all that kind of stuff that I think is illegal. Now, So my discipline by my dad and the natural reward words of discipline, hitting that pheasant before it flushed and on occasion hid it when it did flush. I mean, that was so gratifying, so so hallelujah of a moment. I take that quail home I killed, and my dad showed me how to pluck it and sometimes skin it and filet it and gut it and cook it. What incredible lessons for life itself and the gratification factor of going from a homemade bow and shooting the occasional chipmunk to actually getting a fiberglass bare bow with real arrows. Are you kidding me? Because we didn't have any money. We we lower a middle class but frugal and prioritized, which means that you're better than rich people. But you essentially went from a red rider be begun to at that point overnight. No, not really, not really. I was so and remained so engrossed in the mystical flight of the arrow that I have sniper rifles and when I have to kill more animals, I pull them out. But I am so at seventy three point five years, I'm more titillated than I was as that kid, which is a gift because I've been cleaning sober, so my my central radar still real touchy. I consider my entire life to be a purple rimmed dick, and the slightest breeze, the slightest breeze, come to attention, how am I doing so? Anyhow? So anyhow I am. I am raw and pure because I've been cleaning sober, I have no tainting um. And so in that era, we'd go north. Here, I'll try not to cry. We'd go north and stop and grailing as this little boy. And here's this kind of dull yellow cinder block shack. That Nell's Grumley, Nell's Grumley, no original bowyer of Fred Bear that left Detroit and went to Grayling and forty eight me whatever the year was, Bear archery, little shaft. Maybe the size of this room were those guys making. Those guys were added in those years, Yeah, like producing both to sell because they saw hunting with the bow and arrow by Saxon Pope and Art Young at the Detroit Theater that that documented the Issy education phenomena as Roy weatherby God bless him, developing long range ballistic capability beyond the thirty thirty am small missmall. That's exciting. I love it. I lived at my surprise. I didn't have surgery and my eyeballs to put crosshairs in there. I love crosshairs now, I love trigger squeeze, and I love the ballet of marksmanship. I get to train with delta force and shoot thousand yards stuff and it it's so challenge and fulfilling. But we'd stopped at this little shack, and I didn't know because it started when I was a year old. But by the time I was four or five, and I'm already cruising the Rouge River with homemade bows and narrows, so I'm already naturally fascinated by projectiles. I made my own sling shots and I was murdered. I think I had the songbird Grand Slam. By the time I was seven, I had a blind right next to the bird feeder. I learned early productive, highly productive. We're gonna kill birds. Let's go by the bird feeder. Um. But we'd meet this tall, lanky, funny gentleman, easy going, slow guy, and eventually I'm going that's Fred Bear. That's the guy in True magazine with a polar Bear. I met him where at at this little bar archery shack nine, probably as early as fifty two fifty three, um, and events just going in there. My dad would stop and visit with him. But but this is you're not even touching professional music land about this pome No, I'm playing guitar. Well, by the time I was six, I was beating on a guitar. So the bow and arrow outdoor fascination. And again, you don't start quail when you're four or five. At the time I was six or seven, I never played ball or I played a little hockey in the Rouge River and I did little league stuff. But I couldn't wait to get to the river with my bone arrow and my sling shot. So now I'm getting to be seven or eight years old and I'm actually following my dad in the National forest with a bow and arrow. Um. Obviously I couldn't kill anything, but it was an imprinting lifestyle. Well, now I'm realizing this guy were stopping at the Gradling restaurant having cherry pie and chocolate milk with that's Fred Bear. That's like my bow hunting Chuck Berry and I get to hang with him and every year. Eventually my dad, who went from working for mybll on Lasher and Grand River. I remember all this stuff, um, and to go to Miller's feed store. Explain what mob bell was, the original A T and T the phone company military. Yeah, just just after the crank phone, and now we can dial them. I go way back, man Um, So the crank to dial phone. It played a role in my fascination with going from homemade bows to the to the fiberglass recurve to meeting Fred Bare. And of course when you had two seater arrows back then with real fletching, Yeah, hung out of an arsenal. It's like a high capacity quiver back then. And here's Fred Bare with a wall full of arrows, and he's he's experimenting with his lathe with his lamination, the gooey glass and the fiberglass and the wood layers. He invented the the layering of those components too, for improved cast of his artistic recurves, his beautiful pieces of wood craftsmanship. And he was such a fun guy, funny guy, smartass. As I grew older, I realized he's funny guy. And then my dad went from working for the phone company to represent the Utah Home Swedish Steel Company UM and their especialty was rolled tempered blue spring steel bear razor insert and he negotiated with Fred and so now that the steel company from Sweden that my dad represented now made the bleeder blades for the famous bear razorheads, and now they had a business connection, and so they would hunt the quarter sections up there after, you know, the timbering company denuded northern Michigan, and that habitat that grew up from the over harvesting Noptember, the total harvesting Noptember perfect wildlife habitat. Everything, all wildlife benefited from this new accessible I mean beautiful. So these lessons are these lessons are going into my brain in spite of the anti education system. And so by the time I'm uh fourteen, I'm like gaga that we're gonna stop at Fred Bear's place. And it was still just a shack. I think he'd expanded it by that time. So he we eat cherry pie and chocolate milk at the gray Lean restaurant with Fred Bear. And now I'm really shooting. I'm starting to kill stuff with my bone arrow. Then my dad got transferred to Illinois Schaumburg, where it was all pheasant country and there was no deer back then, but a lot of small game and sixty five, my band had just won the Michigan Battle of the Bands. We opened up for the Supremes at the brand new Cobo Hall. I was on my way and I got yanked out of my damn it. So I started the Ambo Dukes the day I landed in Chicago, in in Schaumburg Um and that's when the amboy Do started. But then when I graduated in sixty seven, I immediately went back and went up to say hello to Fred. And now it's not a shock. It's the largest archery company on the planet with this huge museum. It was I was like, awesome, But I'm starting to look a little hippie, like got long hair, and I'm amboy Dukes are just breathing rhythm and blues, rock and roll fire, just the intensity, and shoot flaming arrows on stage. And this is a great You'll you'll love this part. I know you probably love all these parts. I love all these parts. So now I go up and reintroduced myself to Fred. But I'm kind of looking like a hippie. I had bell bottoms on and you know, patchwork leather jacket and forty four magnum in my belt and a pocket full of speedloaders. Nobody saw that. But boy, I wasn't a hippie um, and he was a little off. And I remember you telling you it's a great as your dad's children. We had a conversation, but I could tell it was a little uncomfortable, and I was really let down. You know. Did you know the why it was uncomfortable for him because of the Yeah, but then he would have been like in his fifties or yes, when he just started going on adventure hunt like when when you were when you were this hippie coming. He was probably in his fifties. So many erration real disdained for anything hippie um that I agreed with, even though I'm in the swirl of that world and they were nice hippies and my band were hippies, um, not not many of them. They eventually became hippie UM. But I was still militantly anti substance abuse because I had already witnessed it turned virtuosos into celebrity and idiots. So my dad's discipline, instead of me being a rebel, I went on his advice makes sense to benefit the quality of my music. I re rehearsed and rehearsed, and our music was so powerful. I mean, listen to the opening journey the Center of Mine, not anybody else that Gregor Raymond bass guitar. Holy God, what a gifted young man, sixteen years old playing stuff that Bob Babbitt and James Jamerson of the infamous Motown Funk Brothers would come and watch the amboy Duke because Greg's bass play was so out of this world sixteen year old kid, and the world's most revered bass players for Motown would come and watch Greg. So I'm going all over the place here, but coless and so the word I got. I went back and visited Fred again, and that was sixty seven again, and sixty eight when I started hunting irons. I'm hunting the maneste alshal Forrest, and this time he was so happy to see me and hugged me and shook my hand and asked me how the bow hunt is going. I hear you're a successful musician, and um, he goes, you know, uh. I talked to some of my buddies and they said that you always promote bow hunting, and that you shoot bows and arrows on stage, and that you're all about being clean and sober. So I guess I'll give me a second shot. Yeah, when I think rightly, So, I think you should be suspicious of a of a cultural segment that is is at least suspicious and all too often negative. Um. But so we became just the best of friends because I like that he goes. When when young people come to my museum, they always asked me if I know Ted Dogen. Yes, I have gotten going that music to hear guys. You guys found like a symbio. You guys hit on like a symbiotic relations Yeah. Uniquely, uniquely, uh, collision of planets. Um, much to the benefit of both planets. Because I've never gone on a radio or promoted tour without it turning into a bow hunting promotion. I've never done gone and done an interview to promote a new record without it turning into the celebration of the mystical flight of the era. And being clean and sober, that's why my guitar playing is so sexy. I mean literally, it sounds cute, but it's true. And so we became friends, and he started inviting me to Grouse Haven over there in Rose City, his annual event, and it was have an unearthed too, And then I ended up playing bass for Chuck Burry and bow Didley. So now I'm playing base for Chuck Barry bow Didley. I'm bow hunting with Fred Bear and Parnelly Jones, driving me around the ind and the Mustang. Where else can I go? And you said, Chuck Barry was was your that's who are you playing guitar? To be? Like? Of course that hap to be just on nine monumental? Right? Whoa I need to um? As a young uppity, borderline, out of control energized guy, I had to like embrace these moments. So as I pulled up to Fred Bear's camp, um, I had to take a deep breath and go all right, sponge hang with Fred. I didn't even bow hunt much because Fred didn't bow hunt much. And I'd stay at their fireplace with him and try not to be too much of a stalker, but try to absorb all his wisdom in his uh, his touch. And I did. And then the last time, UH was October of eighty seven. Him and we walked the lanes at Grouse Haven. He had his oxygen tank that he carried with him, and he uh went on and on about how all the sporting goods shows. He goes to that anybody under forty, all they want to know is if they know if he knows ted nugent. And of course that my ego is like soaring in the stratosphere. Not really, but my appreciation for that, my natural activities of celebrating archery, bow hunting, conservation, clean and sober did it. It ended up elevating to where my hero appreciated and thanked me for it. He said, I've heard people in the industry will condemn you because you're whack him and stack him. But the young people, young people know that that means you're having fun. I mean, we're only killing harvest semanthics. Really does this ring any bells? So he said, keep doing what you're doing. He goes, you're impacting a demographic that we desperately need the impact, and nobody in the industry can or even knows it. Gives a bunch of stuff. Sure, and every leader of every conservation organization is so cautious and dare you know what, children it just stodgy. Can I ask you a question specifically, stop me if because I feel like Fred has such a reputation in the industry as being this like father figure of archery, which I understand. I feel like most people, probably much younger than me, wouldn't We wouldn't have They wouldn't have hardly been alive when he was here. What was fred Bear really like? Like you're sitting around a camp fire with him rather than going hunting with him? Like what what did he embody? What kind of wisdom did he have? What was he like? That was so impressive because you know, everybody, it's kind of like we've decided he's a legend, and so all of us admire him as a legend. We know he was a pioneer with making bows, but it's like there's other untold story that I don't really know that well of like why was he such a great guy? Well, I can go all the way back to the first encounters as a little boy, Um, just positive, funny, friendly, a gentleman, uh engaging, he talked with my dad, and of course I was just a little kids. I was only getting the peripherer. And I guess he was an accomplished, a very accomplished bow hunter. Well, his his his accomplishments in marketing and the technology of laminations and the upgrading of the capability of the modern bows that he pioneered, particularly the laminations in those beautiful recurves. So around the campfire between him and Bob Munger, his partner, and then Dick mak who was his financer back in sixty sixty two who just passed away at ninety n Dick mack on us last year and we kept in touch. I'm this young uppity rock and roll maniac hanging out with these this these old guard pioneers of bow hunt. And I referenced Roy weatherby expanding ballistic capabilities, which is awesome. But some guys Ben Pearson, Roy Case Wisconsin, Um, certainly Doug Walker in California Western bow Hunter, and Fred bare was the daddy of them all, Um, and there's others. But they knew as we know, and we love shooting him at long range. Takes a real discipline to make that long range shot, no matter how plighted in your gun, is that moment of truth, that trigger drop. It's special moment long range short range. Now you you magnify that by what a million. When you've got to be so close those deer can see your nose hair is moving, and you have to execute a shot under the most challenging of conditions. God made these animals not to let us do that, so we have to really call upon the spirit within to earn full draw. That's what Fred and Roy Case I can't mention his name enough, and those Ben Pearson, Howard Hill, those guys, that's what they saw was missing in the advancement of long range shooting. That long range shooting as good as it is, which is perfect, I think it's perfect, but it's the longer the range, the more the disconnect. And that's good. You got you gotta kill the animals, you gotta harvest the surplus. Venison at a thousand yards is just as good as well, is just as good as venison at ten yards, but probably not because psychologically, I think it's more delicious because you had to do you had to make such You're intimate. You're so intimate. It's so that's why I call everything I do the Spirit of the wild. My song is Spirit of the Wild, my show is Spirit of the Wild, my my podcast is Spirit Campfire. I learned early on that my disdain for the drooling, stumbling dopers and drunks um was at its most apparent and inescapable hunting with a bone arrow. That's why I mentioned about slithering in out of covey of quail. My whole, clean and sober battle cry is that are you making a conscientious step or you're bumbling? Make a conscientious step slow. Like Fred and so many people I've heard you said, you hunt more of your eyes than your feet. Your rewards are more meaningful. In fact, you're not going to be rewarded if you're stumbling. But if you take a conscientious step, stalking, stealth, situational awareness, um, the rewards are ultimate backstraps or at least getting close. I'd literally were be able to slither up on a covey of quail within inches of this circle. I've witnessed the circle of quail before they explode. Um. That stays with you forever. So what Fred spread on that those years that he entrepreneurial marketing, promotional brilliance was his be a two season hunter. Remember that campaign there one guy in the orange and the other guy with the cameo bow and a gun. Beautiful boy. There's a harmonial, harmonious message that the industry, could you is more of? And on seven we walked down the trails, and he thanked me and said keep doing what you're doing. Um, ignore the critics because they criticize me because I put a match stick on my bow when I won the state UH three D championship. It was one of the first yes because he had target panic. Um, he says, that doesn't have nothing to do with anything. The critics criticized. Nonsense in consequential, counterproductive nonsense, he says. When you say whack him and stack him, all that really means is you're having fun. If you can get a bag limit of blue gills, that would be whacking and stacking. Find fault with that right Well, to every right there, Steve, Yes, I understand your point so so, but the thing is it it comes to you use the word crescendo. I have a lot of crescendos. My whole life is a crescendo. In fact, I don't hire your music unless I can see the foreheads, and there the veins on their foreheads pop every song I want. I want James Brown, I don't want Simon and garfuncle. Um. Being that as it may, so seven October, intimate communication around the campfire, So to your inquiry, just just a ship kicker just and he would talk about the polar bear hunt, he would talk about his elephant hunt. He would talk about promoting the Uh, the poison pods on the arrows are aware of that? Man, you know what as of a few days ago, Oh, just learned about it. Well I knew about it. But we had a we had a story. We work on this series. Um these close call things where people tell close calls in the wild, and a guy had a great had a We heard about a guy that actually jabbed himself with that sound billy down in Mississippi, maybe because it's still legal down there. So we so explain that. Yeah, but can you people aren't aware of this? Yeah, well, Fred like by people, I mean, I wasn't aware that that was that you can still use it as a fred into that as a promoter of conservation, which I salute you. By the way, we got all the important stuff done before the microphones are turned on. We salute you. We congratulate you, Steve Rinella, for promoting the sport that is the tip of our quality of life. Spear. You do a great job. It doesn't surprise me you come from Michigan because of the history and the passion that comes from those deer camps in Michigan. And I salute you and applaud you and appreciate your dedication because ultimately you promote conservation and hands on environmental air, soil and water upgrade through wildlife habitat, safeguarding and enhancement. That's what you've done. Thank you. That's what I do, and that's what Fred Bear thank me for. But when we're so, we'll talk about around the campfire to hear it from fred Bear promoting the use of I forget the term of that that poison powder, that he would take a balloon uh neck and pull it back and put a little this poison on the arrow. Because as all know, one of your best shows when you made a bad shot in that elk and those other guys found it. You can't hunt without making a bad shot unless well, then again, Mrs Nugent defies that she's never lost an animal because she waits for the shot, and so do we. But even when we wait for the shot, humans flinch. Well, nothing hurts more well, outside of the loss of a loved one or the abusive power by people you vote to adhere to their constitutional oath. But equal to those heartbreaks when you make a bad shot, and sometimes it's it's it's treacherous trying to get over what two more inches to the left. I'd had him, and now I got a gutty arrow. And you can recover them if you wait most of the time. But when you don't, it's you can almost not get over it. You lose an animal. You just feel that's that reasoning predator thing. That cougar doesn't care. Weren't as many DearS. Possibly it doesn't give a shit, but you and I do give a shit. And so I've I've lost a great many I've lost because I haven't so much I've lost, you know, I haven't lost many. I didn't lose any of this last season. I made a couple of bad shots, but I recovered him. Um So to be around a campfire with the bow hunting guy, and he laments the pain in the acid losing an animal, And there's a system by which you will never lose an animal. This poison, behind the little balloon neck, behind the broadhead. He was all for it, but the public perception of the bow hunting master indicating in any way that he might need poison or the broadhead isn't deadly? Is an image you'll never get over. I didn't know that. This is all news to me. I didn't know that Fred Bear. I didn't know this ever became a thing that Fred Bar was involved in, or that he got criticism for it. Oh. He he was the main promoter thereof Um, what was this going? In fact? Watch the Fred What what years was it that there was a discuss three sixty four? Watched the cape buffalo hunt on the Fred Bear films, And watch that arrow go in the narrator, that great narrator, and at a forty yard shot you can see the arrow going. And Fred had put some talcum powder on the arrow so we get better. Witness the flight with poison and so you can make any kind of hit as long as you get it into the bloodstream. That animals going to die. And did Fred Bear kill some cape buffalo without it? Yeah? Did he kill his elephant without it? Yeah? Uh? Did he kill a lot of stuff without it? Yet? But he wanted he wanted to eliminate losing game. Do you feel like there's a line for you between using something like poison and certain technologies that might increase kill rate? Well, there it's not really a fine line. I think it's a glaring chasm, which I don't know why they call it chasm. It should be chasim. I don't know any friends named Carly except Chasm. I go off on tan, which makes me interesting if nothing else, site pins, mechanical release, AIGs, um let off, cams, um sent reducing products. It's still your hands, your stealth, no matter what kind of upgraded advancement and hunting technology. It's still you, your brain, your stealth capabilities. Luck, huge luck. But it's shot placement, no matter how good. The Remington mushroom deadly is mushroom in the woods is so I gotta hit him right, I mean bull eut hit with a three forty weather be through the guts is still going to run off though. That's a pretty powerful route. I love that round because it seems like you're very much in tech kind of the raw. Organic technology is not taken that away. In technology is not taken away. That's why I don't I don't attribute traditional archery to somebody with an old fashioned bow. I am truly traditional. What is tradition applying ones maximum effort to a clean kill, and if you want pure archery. I think Mr left hand's got to grab the bow and Mr Right Hand's gonna have to knock that arrow and draw it back. It's as pure as is, but it's it enhances the deadliness of your endeavor, which is a moral um consideration. Uh. I still shoot my recurves in my log bows. But when I was a kid, Holy god, I couldn't miss squirrel running on a power line. Bang got him. I couldn't miss the purity of youth and the hand I purity. You see samurai guys, and you see Um Tim Wells often and some of the other guys, and Fred and Howard Howard Hill guy couldn't miss. So the guy that can't miss is he cheating? Should we ban him? Well, in Colorado, you can't use a scope on your rifle. Well you can with your muzzleoader. Well you can help with a muzzleloader, but not very accurately. We need to reduce your accuracy. How stupid is that? And in some states there where you couldn't use um lit pins. What if it's dark inside the blind but it's still legal shooting hours really, so you can hunt, but you but you may have to make a bad hit. Because I'm uncomfortable with this technology. Shut the fuck up. Um, you know you know what they're driving at. Yeah, they're driving efficacy. When we're talking upstairs, and you were like you were hand gesturing the No matter what you've over the years, pins release whatever, You're like, I still hold this thing in this hand. I pull it back. And then you made a rifle gesture or a or a crossbow gesture. So does that in your mind? What does that mean? I wrote an extensive piece on it. Did I love crossbows? It was? I believe The title was I love crossbows, but not for me? Yep, And that summarizes it. Um. A bunch of my buddies hunt with crossbows for a number of reasons. It's it's easier get him in the woods more. I'm all for it. So far I'm with you, And then so many I can't draw my bow back because it's seventy pounds. I kill everything with fifty pounds. Shamaine kills everything with thirty pounds. Will Debes Zebra elk Kudu, dirty pound bow, and Hoyt of White Archery killed everything that walks the earth with a thirty five pound re curve shooting zoo wiki two blades and m A twos and bare razor heads, that knife broadhead. I've killed Kate Buffalo with sixty pounds using a two blade broadhead. You get in between the ribs and quite honestly, every almost everybody's overboard. If you're lifting your bow up, it's too much drawway and you don't need it. It's stealth shot placement and the right broadhead. And I used rage, and I used the ship there the shank, and I use the schwacker, and I try them all. I'm always trying every broadhead, but I when I want to. When it all comes down to it, the two blade is the deadliest. It cuts through everything. The point being is that if you want to use a crossbow, hell, I'll buy you one if it'll get you out in the woods and buy a license and enhance the the the economy because you're gonna go food groceries, restaurants, gas, lodgings. You're probably gonna buy a food plot materials, so anything to get anything for recruitment and retention. I'm for this side of grenade launchers here. You know I'm not gonna I don't think you should necessarily go into a hurder deer with a rent a car. But do do you agree with archery only seasons? I believe that the statistics have proven that the human cry that the crossbow will reduce archery season opportunities has proven to be false. Um, So I believe, first of all, a crossbow is not a damn gun. Now, are there a hundred yard capable crossbows? Yes, there are, and all of them will blow up at some point. I mean, that's not my hunch. I know all these guys, I know dozens of guys with archery shops and all these maniac high tension hundred yard crossbows. They will all blow up at some point because it's too much tension on the components, which again is fine to each his own. But crossbows shoot arrows, bolts, So it's it's it's not firearms. There there are some of the old school I love some of them, some not so much. Um, well, it's a it's across gun. Really, I don't smell any gunpowder. It's not across gun. It's across bow. And I think technologically it dates pre longbows. If i'm maybe you would know that, I don't know that. Um, I think it pre dates longbows. That's I've seen that claim here and there, but meaningless. That's meaningless. It shoots an arrow, and people that are trying those hundred yards shots are are learning they shouldn't because it's just not going to get there in time, even with a rifle. Every better be good at long range because that animals got to be calm. He can't know you're there, and you've got to be super accurate. But the real conflict comes from stags like Idaho love him, but they banned lighted knucks. Well, they didn't allow lighted knocks from the get go and expandable broadheads. I know, so I lighted knock would be like, uh when when it's released off the string, the knock glows and flight. It helps you find your arrow, doesn't help you kill anything and mechanical. But the point is the mechanical broadhead is the most popular broadhead on the planet Earth. So you're telling all those hunters you're not welcome to Idaho. It can't have anything to do with killability. You can't have anything to do with ethics. I don't. It's just an arbitrary, punitive, stupid statement by some Elita's prick and I told him that when I did a speech out there, they wanted me to help them in legalized wolf und And I roamed the stage and I went, I'm so proud to be here, and I had a whole love Idaho wow rugged individuals of outdoorsmen that that mountain man is still alive. And well then I paused, and I said, why should I help you open a wolf season? I know, I know why you because they're they're they're hurting your big game herds. But why should I help you. I'm not even allowed you. You won't even let me hunt it here? And there was silence. I go, because I have a lighted knock, You're not gonna let me hunt. My wife shoots a thirty pound bow kills everything that moves, but she's not welcome in your state. Well, I think it would be that her lighted knock is not I think know the lower poundies too, was against the law. And yeah, nonsense, the found I agree on the lighted knock thing. I agree on that I think anything that allows recovery should be allowed. But this conversation is not about lighted knocks or expandable broadheads. Right, We're talking about where where do you draw the line at regulation and where where is it appropriate? And and really we want to know this from you. I think that delighted knocks, in my experience, can give you a false, uh confirmation of impact. So when I'm judging that the arrows here and the knocks upstairs, just like when you're shooting at a target, right, you see the knock you don't see. So that's that's a personal reason of mine that would you outlaw them based on that? You know, I just don't really give a shit about that that much because let's let's say, let's say the lighted knock gives you a false impression of where the arrow hits. So does a regular knock, yes, absolutely knocks. Yeah. But the but the real issue is they're saying this is an archery season, which they have said, Okay, an archery season is a more traditional hunt. They're banning electronics. I mean, that's the thing. So that's not I don't think it's an issue. They sat down and debated. They said anything that's electronic that's on a bow gives you advantage, or that's the assumption that gives you advantage. But nobody was in the room to challenge that's where I come yet? Okay, do you go? Okay, let me ask you this. I also want to argue about c w D, but uh, we might have to argue. I don't know, I gotta ask. Let's talk about this for second. I think Dr Fauci would like to be in on that conversation. Go ahead, I mean, do you have sympathies to the people that are are regulating a giant population? And it always defaults to um the weakest link in the chain, right if we don't have a thirty five pound minimum, is somebody going to pick up k our bow and a field point they're already doing in the field point, they're already doing that. Um. No, I have no sympathy form whatsoever. But do you like Okay, here's the thing. There's a couple things going on that that I that I want that you need to speak that. I'd like to get your opinion on one of the things you're doing when you control technology, when you control the end like technology coming in, is your sort of stop thinking of it as fair like fair chase and think of it as um what was what the guy that proposed an alternative to talk about fair chase fair share? Okay, certain technologies are meant to just to control efficacy. So if someone were to come in and say, a state were to come in and say, we're not going to allow people to use drones two um for for hunting purposes, they might say, because right now we're operating on this thing where we have success rates with ELK, which means shiploads people can hunt. ELK can have the opportunity to hunt. Ok. If technology were to come in and create a situation where success rates were so high, you're gonna have less and less opportunity for people to go out because we're like, if you're if you're gonna kill a hundred ELK and you have ten percent success rates, you're allowing people thousand individuals to hunt. If it winds up being that through the use of drones, thermal vision, let's say there's no limitation, so you can hunt at night, you can use thermal to hunt at night, you can scout with a drone. Uh no no no, no, no no no, And you wind up that success rates are now you got eleven guys that are gonna hunt, when it used to be no, you got guys or whatever. I lost track of my own metaphor but I think that there's there's looking at it like you're sort of trying to prescribe at X, which is so hard and confusing to do. You're trying to prescribe ethics, or you're looking at being like, how do we maintain a static situation that we've had for a long time without telling people things that they've historically done they can't do anymore, which is in my mind like where I always draw a line. I don't like to see people's traditional use practices interrupted. It winds up being that you have to look ahead and think about the impacts of technology. You used to not be able to hunt it, Knight because you couldn't see, well that we've crossed that bridge, because all these assumptions and proposals and hypotheticals go all the way back to trajectory compensating scopes to uh let off compounds and well, we're gonna ruin our archery season. We're gonna start losing opportunities. Since those hypotheticals were proposed, Not only haven't we reduced archery opportunities, they've continued to expand. And let's just talk about the elk form. Well, if I may, i'd like to be the tzar of hunting regulations, and I am on my land. I'm sorry because I don't want to. I want to be able to do that, but nationally I should because I think we I think if we got a room together, we would not only have unif universal agreement on my proposals, but the person who would disagree with it would would present themselves as a slabbery and idiot. And I think the first proposal would shooting hours. You can only hunt when you see them, except for hogs or maybe other depredation consideration. Shooting our thing because they have, yes, weird daylight. Weird daylight, when can you see you even with waterfall? What should shooting hours be when you can see them? So I think we would get everybody in the room to agree that we're not going to open a night elk season. And if and if someone does propose that, that means you haven't provide had had enough tags to responsibly harvest the surplus, which is the condition in Colorado in some areas, which is the condition in New Mexico in some areas. We unfortunately, those who propose further restrictions are either lying or woefully unqualified to manage x herd or ex population. For example, I'm gonna go back to the conversation you were having earlier before we went back to our guests, um the mountain lion telemetry enough already they did was a halfbacker? Was that his name? Back in the ninete fifties. Where do we need to study where mountain lions are anymore? They're under harvested. We need to kill more mountain lions. And the methodology of hounds and and and heard identification mountain lion population identification is it's like a concluded it's all concluded. Colorado read those studies every day. So please doing don't charge my taxes for that, because I know U. S d A hunters that are slaughtering cougars and bears year round using hounds and bait. Where we, the people who own this resource, are not allowed to hunt in the spring or use hounds in bait. I dare anybody that that is a legitimate thing. But that's a state issue. California when they stopped when Colorado, when California band they used to kill about three d four hundred lions a year, Well now they pay the state to kill three four After we've compensated the alpaca ranchers, and after and after we relocated them three times. I know the hunters, I know the USDA hunters. Why is there a U. S d A hunting? Why does that exist? So they're they're allowed to clean up the inadequacy of But yeah, but nobody wants to see Uncle Tad creeping in the basket off they why why would you have Okay, if it was on VHS, I'd watch it again, like you run the you run the risk of throwing out the baby with the bath water. So if we have us DA hunters, like we have, what's what's the it's a okay, like aphis Wildlife Services. They ran the new Tria eradication program at Chesapeake Bay. Okay, new Tria are not cougars. I know. But you said, why would we have U. S d A hunters? That's who did that. They do all kinds of Kyle work for sheet producers. Believe me, I know these guys. Yeah. But the point it was just that it gets abused now and then. But like again, man, I feel like you run the risk of like sort of trashing on the whole system because of certain areas of abuse that often aren't their fault, the coopering, It's never their fault. The cougar thing is the fault of is the fault of stupid people of putting the cougar thing, is the fault of having like state referendums where you put to voters like idiotic wildlife management decisions, Michigan doves, Michigan sandhill crane, No doubt about it. Well, I would address it that that typically the between the media, the bureaucracies, and our own hunting organizations. Let's go right to the horror stories. Of horror stories, there are eight states in the United States of America where we the people are not allowed to hunt during the rut on our farms on Sunday. Stare anybody. But that's the manifestation of that cultural dishonesty. But that's not elitism. That's very old like not being able to buy booze. You know you you should be in you should be in church, like that's coming from a completely different direction. But that's not like urban liberals. I think it is. Well exactly in Pennsylvania, it's the it's the agricultural community, that's the farmers. What we need. We need a day of rest, had at all spring and summer to rest after dark arrest. But I consider it indecent, I consider irresponsible, and same with minimum drawwaye and lighted knocks and expandable broadheads. It's not like it's experimenting with expandable broadheads anymore. I mean, it's a deadly, deadly tool that's been proven irrefutably conclusively. How dare you ban all those people from your state? So the point, the real point of this, is that the sporting families of this country, just like the voting families of this country, are dangerously apathetic. They're not involved, they're not raping. When I did that speech in Idaho, I guarantee if we took a vote in that room that night, they would I legalized lighted knox and SSU, expandable broadheads and eliminating minimum drawways. This ties into the apathy, okay, Idaho until they really started screwing it up here in the last couple of years. Independent Phishing Game Commission. They are mandated two have a public process for every regulation change, and our guys don't show up to and our guys do not show up to the process. I have spoken interviewed Phishing Game commissioners on major rule changes where they've gotten as low as six hunter survey's returned on things that people are screaming up and down about. But they will not go online. They will not fill out the mailer that they're paying for through their license dollars and send it back in. I give you, Joey. That is a direct result of of Americans that are so spoiled and so disengaged. Well, the point is, once you cast your vote, whether your person gets in or not, your job then begins to hold them accountable absolutely and due to a ship job of it. No dodo dodo, dodo dodo. So regarding regulations, Um, but I gotta hold off on sex, like I gotta clarify thing, Like I feel like we're at risk confusing two issues here. What well, sorry expandable broadheads, And like, let's say let's take the drawway thing. That's not them thinking it works too good. That's not them saying you can't use thermal vision to hunt ELK. That's what I'm saying, we don't think it works good enough. That's exactly what I feel. When you get into that, I'd be like, okay, if you don't think it works good enough, and it's not that effective. I don't know that. It's your business absolutely, like minimal people will probably find out on their own. Like you could man, you could also say it's illegal to be very loud while hunting because it just doesn't work. That's the point. So I like, I agree that, like that, like the draw length thing, you're the draw sorry drawway, and one's dictating rout length. But I think there's an overall arrowweight. There's also an overall um firearm weight. So minimum calibers in Africa three seventy five is if I can't kill a lion with a seven mag I did so. Yeah, it's it's arbitrary, punitive and capricious, dictated by people who don't know. Some of these people dictating these policies wouldn't know a cock pheasant from a terror dactyle. Just again, the worst example is Michigan ribis in the sky. How immoral of a regulation? Virtually immoral to kill a ribby in the sky and not to be allowed to eat it. Yeah, it's it's in let's tell people what they're what they're getting at the Michigan has recovered popular like like most of the country, like most like most of the country Western missip that's who's declared recovered. Like they can a state level management of Saint okranes. So in Michigan they they do not have a sandhill crane season. They give out depredation permits for sandhill cranes. But they're trying to like they're trying to control what your motivations are. Come now, that's what they would do. Unbelievable that tell you. So you can get a depredation permit to kill a sandhill crane, but you doesn't eat it once you do, because if you eat it, it might be well did you kill it to eat it or did you kill it because it was depredation. That is so a similar thing in Australia. My brain rejects the very premise. It's the It is a it is a migratory game bird. It is delicious. It's known as ribby in the sky. Anybody who forbids me to eat that is a bad person, is an immoral person. If you support immorality, your immoral and the morning dove, well it's a songbird. No it's not. It's the number one game hunted species on planet Earth. You can't call it a song bird. I told the guys that d and I said, your liars. We would hunt as kids. We would hunt morning doves in Michigan out of protest. I still do. We had. We would go up and down. Good for you if you're if you live in the area and you're familiar with M one twenty, we would work the power lines along M one twenty through twin light a, Michigan, and we would go in the woods, find a morning dove, perchas on the power line, cleap up to the edge of shoot and we would do it. And it was like completely encouraged and ordained by our father because he felt that it was an act of civil disobedience. Beautiful because you could not hunt mourning doves, beautiful the most harvested bird in America, harvested the most harvested game ail America. You were not allowed to in Michigan because of I think it was like some public referendum. Yes, because the public does. It was a sign of love. It's just unbelievable, and that's why I invited and still today you can hunt does in Michigan. I invited the Attorney General to my Michigan cabin and I had boxes of shotgun shows on the table with pictures of doves, a dove and quail load. And I'm cooking up this nice slab of meat on the grill and it was a sandhill crane. And I go arrest me, arrest me, and make the case to the jury that I'm doing something bad and that this is a songbird on the shotgun show box. I dare you so, I'm I'm a hell raiser because I go with truth, logic, common sense, and science, which makes me radical instead of lies. Said you. It's like the deer stuck in defense which I've come upon, or deer hit by cars. I've come upon them all my life, and people are squawking and crying. What do we do? What do we do? He gets the bag and shoot the deer in the head and take the wraps off. Everybody else want the backstraps because if you don't, I'm taking them. That is so moral, that is so righteous, it is so purely the correct thing to do, and it's against the law. I'm rosa parks. That's a black ass, and that's a bus seat. I'm sitting down, eat me c W d c W talking about scams. Should I share I share your loathing. I share your loathing of the animal rights world and animal rights community. No, no, I don't think we're on the same page on bureaucrats, okay, because there's a lot of stuff, a lot of like, well, you're young, you'll you'll learn that. It's not like you can say if I hear the word beercrat, like, oh, we're all supposed to agree that bereaucrats are bad, or we're all supposed to agree that lobbyists are horrible. But uh, there's a lot of places, there's a lot of people that are lobbying on behalf of things that I think are good. They're very really bad at it though, because you still can't hunt on Sundays in h stage, So what are they lobbying for? You still can't hunt cougars and bears? You just took a step in the right direction. Who else Ventcilvania. They a guy called me, he goes, hey, they gave us two sundays. They're not what do they give you the right to eating bear arms? Well, I got constitutional carry. I was born with constitutional carry. I don't need government paperwork for my god given rights. We've been brainwashed that we're waiting for a handout from the bureaucrats. That's why I hate bureaucrats. Are there some good ones? I think four? Um? But no, okay, but let's go to c w D. I I want to I want to hit the beuacrat appointment like I think that they're they're probably some um uh. I feel that stranglehold is one of the best songs ever ever done. I can hardly stand it. But when I hear when I hear that someone has a radio collar on a mountain line, I perk up because I think that information is valuable. When you hear that someone's got a radio connor mountain line, you might ask, like, who's paying? It's gonna come around to bite me in the ass somehow, Yeah, I do, because there's it's just like, uh, the grants are our tax dollars are raped in pillage by so called grants. And we already know everything we need to know about mountain lions. Now, if there was any indication, any real indicator that there's a mountain lion population anywhere that needed to be monitoring, I'd be the first to make a donation for radio telemetry and finding out what what benefit that for whatever reason, decreasing mountain lion population except guess what, there are no decreasing mountain lion population and there haven't been. But what about I don't want to let's get a CD I was gonna say, I don't want to. I want to have last word. I was gonna say, telemetry data might tell us that we have expanding an increasing mountain lion popular there already has so cut it out, already saved the tax dollars. Give me my money back. You want an everything about mountain lions, call me, no charge mountain more sand amount bar George. Expect a call from a guy named Bart George, who at this moment has collars online out but he should pay for his own collay. The lions are bringing the wild to people who refuse to believe it's there, right, Those are the mountain lions that are eating the outpack as coming into people's backyards, and and God love them for it. Like that's the real uncontrolled wild sandwiched on the Alex Curtsy. Don't need radio telemetry to determine that these people watch the mountain lions cross their backyards. In Pennsylvania, you need security cameras above your garage, and in Michigan they'll tell you there are no mountain lions foot in real It's a model line and it fail camera lion, Son of a bitch c w Because I want to get to I want to talk about wolves. Love wolves, love mountain lions, love them all, c w D. I feel as though I feel as though we disagree on on this um. So I admit it exists. Okay, give me your speel and like help let me. I'm gonna start by the question. Let's say I went and got a bunch of seats. This is something I used to want to do, but I feel like I get in trouble for traveling around with it. I went and got ten c w D positive deer, okay, And I made a burger. I ground it all up, made a burger, and I traveled here with it. And I made this burger and fried it up in your kitchen and offered you the burger. Would you eat it or not eat it? I would eat it, you would eat it. Now I'll talk because my rule is I'll only talk about c w D with people who would eat the burger. Well, I only argue with c WBS people who would eat the Burger, and I love your presumptuous uh scenario, because good luck finding ten deer with c w D. They're they're claiming they're looking for c w D, wasting our tax dollars, wiping out entire herds in private ownership or in in the wild, and they come across. Well, if you are spending gazillions of dollars looking for something, here's a little tip from the old guitar player, you're gonna find it. Has any hunting seats since nineteen sixty seven over there in Colorado, and they variation of crushed felt jacobs. I understand what it is. And there's the scrapies that really wiped out this sheep world in North America that was bigger than the cattle world, um except for scrapies coming in. I understand the origins. I understand the epidemiology. There has been no dear season that has been reduced because of chronic wasting disease, but there have been dear seasons reduced, which again I'm using the term dear season to reference the vitality of a herd got it um because as you as you regulate based on sustained yield and opportunities to mitigate agriculture destruction, highway destruction, dangerous conditions, other overpopulation maladies. Um, you've got other diseases like episodic hemorrhagic disease that have wiped out that great numbers. And was what what state was it? Last year? North Dakota had go because because refund But that was the h D and w D has never happened with the w D. I know it exists, but there's no evidence exists. And even though they go not trying to find it that the chronic wasting disease in servage is transmissible to humans or cattle or dogs or sheep. So there there's a then that goes my back my hatred for bureaucracies. The bureaucracies have ran with the what if, the but the what if it's super scary? Didn't but didn't, but but then what if we're super scary? Just think of Ted opened up with his machine gun downtown. It ain't happen. But unless I can run into a bunch of recidimistic assholes, imagine, I want to do you think it's a thread, He's like got his knife out a finger nail. Okay, I have a nuanced perspective about this, and it's so nuanced. It's got me in trouble with with a very dear friend of mine, who's the friend who's well, this got me in trouble, Doug, because I have a friend who is listen like c w D ground zero where he's in southwestern Wisconsin. Okay, yeah, so it's a pretty calm for him. Two neighbors his place to have to be like, there's a dear dying of c w D. They have a shipload of deer on the ground. He's not gonna argue they got a lot of deer on the ground he has. I mean that they have a lot of living in extremely high density appeared and they're currently killing a lot of deer and they're killing big because I know it came to a peak about eight years ago. Well, they still just give me one second. So your buddy is like hysterical about c w H. In other words, he just misses it like much like I do. No, let me just give me a second, okay, because I'm trying to lay out like various ways of approaching cw D, and I want to get to where I approach it. I want to get to how I approach it, and I wanted to get to how you approach it. So his concern, he's concerned that about two things. He's concerned about the idea of human transmission. And if you're and if like that idea doesn't bother you, it's probably because you don't like to eat dear meat. Okay, if it doesn't like worry you, except that it doesn't bother me. And that's all I do is eat dear meat. Ok So we'll hold you there. His concern is that he feels that you would hit a point where there's a population level impact. Now when I have gone and I've said and it has gotten got mean text messages from it. This even prompted us to find there's an app you can get that makes your text messages not sound agitated. I will never implement, And it was a joke that that Doug needs to get this app. He was upset with me one time for saying, um that if if it wasn't for the human transmission possibility, I wouldn't be sitting around fretting about it. And he's like, well, what about population level impacts? So you got to take it like, here's a person that's very schooled and lives it on his family farm, like lives CWD on his family farm, and is very concerned about He hates the what if scenario about human transmission, and he's concerned about disease and dear because he likes see healthy hurts, so he has concerned about long term impacts and what the like this outrageous prevalence is gonna mean that they confirmed numerous cases on his ground, many many on his ground, and they're they're only increasing and increasing. Like he can go tell you every year, how many he's sent in, how many posities, how many sent it? How many positives? Like when when the numbers, the numbers that he's sending in, does he have tags to kill more? Dear? So he's sending in more than the average hunter that kills one or two a year. He you know, I I I can't answer that specifically. Cow might be able too. But he has very detailed records of what he's submitted and what his results are been. And for a long time he was watching it all around him, and then recently it's started to be that he's getting multiple This year, he's getting deer on his place to come back positive. He doesn't like that ship. The big change ted is not so much Doug himself, but the program that he's running on the farm. Used to be pretty restrictive group wise, harvest wise, very much, and now greater harvest and and more hunters involved. To Doug used to like, I hate to be talking. I wish you Doug was here. I love you, Doug. Well he would play the guitar with you and a heart I should have so. So Doug's worry about the dogs. It's his family farm has been in his family since I don't you know, hundred years. Um, He's like, hates to see this ship, okay, like he hates to see the disease. He's worried about what's gonna mean for the future deer season. He remembers being a kid and you would run home and tell your mom dad if saw a deer track. Shame with me in Michigan. And he loves deer. He I mean, the guy has the most legitimate claim in the world to love and dear love and deer hunting, loving the land. He's worried, sick about CWT. Huge part of our quality of life, no doubt about it. So he he like I disappointed him by expressing that I'm not worried about the population level impact, primarily because it seems that these places that have c w D are magically also the places that have shiploads of deer. So I'm not in the future enough to see where it plays out that we get to the point of having that we lose dear herds because of prevalence. But it's not to me in my view, it's not unreasonable to think that if you want up with with always fatal disease, that every time a deer gets it, it dies from it um and you had somehow magically we got to some point where we had one percent transmission or one infection rates, that I would be like, is that what does that mean for the dear population? Let me let me inject here for a moment that you claim and I hear the claim all the time, and I dismiss it that it's it's fatal. The vast majority is it is it of them that have been discovered to have c w D. C w D didn't kill him, somebody else killed him. And God knows how many we've killed and eaten that do have that, and many I kill hundreds every year, and I don't check them for seat up. And I have a high fence in Michigan, so we have to turn in heads and we haven't had any at all, uh positive c w D. But here's I gotta comment on that. There's too many instances, particularly in Wisconsin, where the DNR comes in and confiscates a deer head and it's tested positive. Well, let me see the results. No, just tested positive. Let me see the results. Dr Fauci. Why why won't you share the evidence with the p Why won't you share the evidence with the deer farmer? They just arbitrarily decrease something trust with verification there there. The history of the c w D conflict is rife with examples of where the bureaucrats may claim. For example, here in Texas, Texas products of wildlife have killed eighties six thousand deer for looking for c w D. So who's the biggest threat to Texas deer herd c w D or the state? The state is the biggest threat. Yeah, those are the conflicts that exist. And to your point, and I suspect I represent a spirit in this room, and I often say it when I recover a deer on spirit of the wild television. What would our lives be without this critter? What a huge part of our lives. It's not our kids, and that's not our spouse, and it's not our job, but close what it represents to us as a as a as a as a as a living thing, as as a source of our whether literal or historical food, clothing, shelter, medicine, tools, weapons, but mostly something that happens when you approach that dead animal. And it's almost like uh a Disney movie, like uh, Spirit World. It's so moving. Did you killed this thing? But you didn't really kill it. You accepted it because you dedicated yourself to to kill it cleanly. It's more of a gift than an accomplishment, I think, am I speaking for you guys. It's it's moving. That's why often also expressed, and I suspect you guys do as well. Pity the human population that has never felt this. I I and I'm going to expand and thank you for allowing me. But we taught God, family, country, God given individual freedoms, safe street, the neighborhoods, law and order. But we in the year two, for all the advancements and all the concrete and all the electricity. We're living the original primal scream when we go out there, even before we kill it. But then when we finally kill it, it's it can be if you approach it with the right attitude. And that's where Fred Baer comes in. Pursuing game with the right attitude, um will cleanse the soul. There really is no world. I made a joke earlier. It's not a joke. But when we're out there and we come to full draw, there is no Joe Biden. Joe Biden represents the real evil force, he said, just a bad bad man, a power abusing criminal, both violating, bad bad man. I'd ask you more about that, but that's but but yeah, but believe that a criticism him in his intersection with C W D would be welcome. It is because because he represents the most abusive of bureaucracies. And I think that when you look at all the money wasted studying it and looking forward and killing all these herds, and and that that more wasteful money. That's another bureaucratic condemnation. But what but where has heard a dear heard? I can't point to a spot, and but I don't think I don't know anybody that is pointing to a spot it could have changed right now. Like there could be areas maybe cal could speak in on this. There may be areas where there has been a population level impact. My understanding is generally it is a what if scenario. I hate those what I don't like This reason the reason I want to spend money on studying c w D as I am acutely and very personally concerned about what it would mean for my lifestyle if it turned out that there were people contracting a prion disease from eating infected dear me. Like of all the ship the government does, of all the ship they spend money on UM, and I'm not gonna stop that. I would like a little bit of that money to go towards answering a question that I'm very interested in. But we've and I'm very interested in that question. That scares the ship out of me. It doesn't scare me at all because of all the money they've already spent and they haven't found the relationship. UM. They even have people who went to a fire department fundraiser and they had a hundred of them in eighties. Some submitted they've been testing those people for ten years. I know those studies, and again they ate or some ship like that ching ching ching, just torch our tax dollars, which is all the government really does. Yeah, but but here's my a guy, like, it's not out of the question though, because stuff like that has happened before. Here's my question though. There's the question Wisconsin, c w D. Right, you turn in your your head or your or your lymph nodes and they say, yep, you have a positive test result. And you say, well, show me the test results. What what do you mean and and what would you do with those? Do you just want to see like I would like to get a confirmation that they're not lying to me, because they're so good at lying to me. I mean, what you call when you call a morning dove a song bird, that's a lie. When you say you can't eat a rib by in the sky, that's just immoral. So they're capable of runaway lies. How about what a perfect setting in March of two that we're discussing c w D in the whirlwind scam of masks and and a vaccine that isn't a vaccine, but vaccine stage you from stuff. This experimental shot jeopardizes you. But you can be mad about but it's you could be mad about COVID shutdowns, and I'm mad. I was mad at everybody about COVID shutdown that matter than me. Steve was a pouting pouting for two years. I didn't pot dismissed it. But the question how does that become? How does that become? Like you could be mad about COVID, But how does that become you don't want information about We've got the information. We already got it. We's been around since nineteen sixties seven. I graduated high school in nineteen sixty seven. All they do is keep burning tax dollars and coming up with the same stuff. I really believe that the c w D scam doesn't exist. Yes, does the weaponize Wuhan virus exists? Yes, we paid for it. How dare we pay for the communist Chinese the weaponization of a virus? If that doesn't scare the living ship out of you that our bureaucrats and our government is capable of that that treason, then how can you possibly trust those in charge of CWD twenty million dollars? How about this Colorado five million dollar grant for someone to come up with a system by which we can mitigate human and bearer conflicts. Are you fucking kidding me? I'm gonna get tyro Wango Tango, and I can fix it opened the season and use hounds in bait and don't bury them in holes in the ground anymore by hiring the U. S D a hunter, which by Buddy would be piste off if he ended it, because he's living the dream at our expense, because it's immoral what they're doing. I believe that the glaring inescapable evidence for us to distrust bureaucrats has never been more profound, and it is right now, And I'm afraid after studying it as extensively as I have, and I suspect you as well. I respect your studies and I respect your concerns, but the jury is not still out. The jury is in, and you're not gonna get krutz Felt jacobs from chronic wasting disease positive animals and will never know because we're killing them and eating them. And how many examples are there? Can you count them on one hand where they've actually witnessed a deer with the c w D symptoms and went and killed that one to test it has there been ten of them, twenty of them, hundred of them. I would say probably thousands a thousand examples. So my point is is that the bureaucrats mankind given a hint of power, they will abuse it. And I believe c W DAY as a manifest c w D as a manifestation of that right in line with this whole weaponized WOU hand virus. It's not a vaccine. And hydroxa chloric quin and iver mecton is a treatment that has been incredibly successful. And I ton I person hydrox chloric quin and iver mecton, put him on a ventilator. You're guilty of murder. Well, my buddy Dirt thinks if you take a brass rod and rub it around in your nostril, it beats code. I'm not mad at I'm not mad about him. Now kl's up on c w D. You do have the ability to see the results, like you right, you pull the tiresol glands out, you can you can go do independent testing that they have it. But now what Yeah, but the it, like you said it like it does exist. And the fact of the matter is is like it came from somewhere. This is knowledge. Do you believe you're in our experience of pretty experienced. But this is how things hampfray. You take a biological thing and you put it in another biological thing, You shake it up, you pour that cocktail out, and eventually that cocktail changes the The discovery in sixty seven in Colorado, UM, I don't believe was the initiation of the condition. I don't think that's when it started. I think they found it then, even though we the Colorado Division of Wildlife or whatever it was called at the time. UM, there is an awful lot of evidence that they manipulated the conditions and actually injected deer with uh scrapies. Now, I don't know if, in all fairness, man, you see that as being when it was first identified the same way like lime disease was first identified the Lime Connecticut, right like that, No one says it was created, maybe someone does, in all fairness, it was identified there, right, And so since then since ninety seven, again that's a long ast time I've done. All that was a research facility, yep. Yeah, government bureaucrats, what are they doing? What are you? Why are you doing that? UM? That goes to the telemetry stuff and again, I'm all for that original telemetry because, um are whether it's passenger pigeons, so I don't think we we killed them. That was a colonization bird. That there's virus spread. Don't you wish you were around for passenger pigeons? Funny, Um, I believe me. I make up for it with starlings and yeah. But anyhow, UM, I'm at the point in my life after being engaged and being in the swirling dust of the arena, UM that I am sitting here today with all the confidence in the world. I'm sure you recognize government virtually untrustworthy. Virtually I can give you examples in every stage where what they do is virtually proven to be immoral, dishonest, and counter to science. In our conservation lifestyle, population dynamics, habitat carrying capacity, sustained yield, productivity, that's not mysterious. The jury is not still out on that. And again when we initiated manage land dear permits in Texas prior to the initiation of that policy, where landowners determine our own bag limit, because somebody downtown certainly doesn't know what my dear heard looks like. They don't know what kind of environment patrol, what kind of supplemental food plots I put in leap leave me alone? And in so many Exotics and Texas the flourishing condition of access deer which are hands off by any government agency. Landowners are the best stewards of such condition. And I believe that that would exist in every state if we could get past the blind edience from the brainwashing since World War Two, where people go, well, I don't have a gun permit. You don't need a gun permit. Do you have a Do you have a First Amendment permit? Is there a building where you don't have a first Is there a place? And is there a piece of ground in America? You don't have a First Amendment? No, you have a First Amendment. You were born with it. I don't need paperwork. Same for Second Amendment. But when I say that publicly, go well, you don't think everybody should have a gun? I go, know, everybody will never have a gun. But I don't believe that rapists and murders and carjackers and stabbers and shooters and child molesters should ever be let out of the cage. And if you stop let them out of the cage, by the very function of our failed court system. We would reduce violent crime by not my number, the FBI uniform crime report number. All this exploding violent crime, it's engineered. It's a direct result of their intentions. Well, it's gun crime, No, it's not. It's a guy who shot people. You add in a cage, you let him out. What do you think he's gonna do? It doesn't matter. Availabilit Where do at the gun? I don't know where can't you get a gun? The regulated harvest, though, is the thing that intrigues me. I got a little sister who's a cop, who's married to cop in in Denver. And I can talk the other stuff a bunch too. But what I'm saying hits home for you. Oh absolutely, and I'll yeah anyway, Um, regulated harvest here on the spirit of the wild ranch is or let's call it Texas because my system is widespread private property. Yeah, but you don't. You have a fence around this place, and animals can't get out of right or come into right by law. Right. So that's because we have exotics, right. So you have a different system here. Note there are mld with no fences. Large landowners didn't know their habitat no fence. And again, believe me when I tell you, And it's hard to comprehend for Montana and wild Alaska hunters, believe me. I hunted no fence in Alaska, and I hunted no fence and all across Canada, in Montana, Wyoma, in Colorado. You know what, defence plays zero role. It's ex habitat that will support X productivity. The same exists in the Mannistee National Forest. Now can they go further to get away? But how far can you shoot your bowl? The fence plays no role whatsoever in the harvest. What does? What role doesn't play? It keeps exotics from running into bureau um. What it does is it allows me to not shoot that three year old and that the neighbor won't shoot that three or That was the foundation of high fence hunting? Is that? And and I'm all I My first deer killed November was a huge button buck. I took it to the taxidermist. I go, yeah, my first killing goes you're in the mouth this, I go, yeah, it's a buck. Feel it's on the it's on the wall, that's how that's how you. Yes, it's on my cabin, my cabin wallchan in Michigan. And you know what's next to it a yearlyan dough that was my first bowl kill. If that's not the purest trophy celebration available to us, I don't know what would be. I'll get back to harvest. You gotta dig in on this, Yeah, so I mean it has I'll agree with you that it doesn't have anything to do with with the harvest. But you also, like set up your aquarium walls, so to speak, you have an area of operation to which you are god, the captain of your own. But I'm also got on my acre Michigan swamp no fence, same there. There is nothing I do on this high fence that I am not mandated to do on the no fence. Nothing changes but for regulated harvest on your tepen acres, Like you decide one day that just shoot every buck that came through prior to the red Can't do that, shouldn't do that, could right that those animals aren't gonna then well your travel and and this connects to CWD. Oh we're talking about regulated high US now obviously, but it's reference, it's it's it's it's reference to that though, because in where c w D is the most dangerous possibility is in under harvested herds. And you could see that almost in every instance I think where they're the uh, the population is, if not out of control, certainly overpopulated. That being said, in Michigan, I harass the D and R bureaucrats because they love a slaughtered deer on the roads and no corn grows, no beans grow, their deer everywhere. I got four tagsres Well, that's your responsible and who can dictate that I let the public on my land? Nobody? So I pushed and pushed and I brought him. I almost had a graham by the aigle. Come you got you look at it? Where's the corn? Come over here? You know, like like a school kid for you know, smoking cigarettes? Um, And I said I need a hundred dough tags. Well you can't do that, And I go, you can't not do that, And they ran into a dead end brick wall of a we the people guy, living science versus their presumptive regulations, Like in order to properly manage your property, you needed to remove that that many doughs, and I do you the only had to do it right, That's what? Okay, but but they resisted. They resisted. I go, well, that's great, I'll do it. By the way, we're filming this, and they offered me three dough tags. There's no corn. He gobbled everything up there. You can see the brows line. I'm harder than them, I'm I'm more knowledgeable than them. So I harassed him. I said, I'll be sure to do a ted Nugent Spirit of the Wild TV show and show you your immorality and that you you you disdain the sciences, sustained yield and have that Karen Cabet, there will be a great show. What's your name again? I'll make sure feature you and I um and I got at the time. The governor was a was a good guy, and I said, this is what's going on. I said, they're anti hunting, their anti nature, they're anti healthy environment, they're anti freedom. So I finally got my dough tags, and I'm able to harvest a lot of doughs now because I do have a hunting family. Were able to take enough bucks. But does it really matter whether Shamaine shoots too and Toby shoots too and Rockell shoots too, or or we just harvest ten But do you do you disagree with sort of the like the foundational American principle that wildlife belongs to the American people. Absolutely, I'm one of those. I'm one of those people. Yeah. Absolutely, So here's one for you. So on a high fence by law in Texas and wherever you find him. Uh, you have to happen because you have the exotics. And even though the floods come and the fences come down, and next thing you know, there's a kudu down down, which I think is awesome. Um or the zebras around and that was a couple of years. Yes, it's awesome. Who doesn't want to kill a zebra on opening day of deer season? By the way, they're delicious. And there's a whole another subject to be scrutinized. When I post pictures of zebras and kudu and elephants. People, well, I could see hunting for food, but not just to kill stuff. I go, give me the name of somebody that does that. Share with us your last experience with someone who just kills stuff to kill stuff? What's got a name? Person doesn't exist unless they let him out of jail for doing that, and they go, why would anybody shoot a zebra, it's it's deer with stripes. It's delicious, it's a it's the there there food on the hoof. But I stage controversy outside connotation with whackam stack hum doesn't lead people to the plate. Do you really do you think? Do you think the guy in the tie at the Safari Club International Banquet that says, you know, we need to harvest inadequate supply avaentable talking like that, do you think he's ever inspired any young person to ever buy a hunting license? Because my excitement level with whackingham stacking has cost thousands of young people to put down the crack pipe and arrow. And so I just missed that out of hand. You couldn't be more wrong. It's exactly what my excitement level does with fun terms like whack them and stack them. He was the back let me just say intense defense from the VHS. He talked about backstraps, backstrap fever. I mean, he was the original guy that was talking about food. I'm just saying that. I mean, it's not the original guy that talked about food. But you hear what I'm saying, ted uh Um. I remember someone expressing something similar to uh, I wish I coud remember it's a famous quote expressing something similar to what Ted expressed is he was like, without great love, there can not be disappointment, okay, or some things such as that. Right, So I like Ted occupying the position you occupied. I remember one time, I don't want to name who said this. I remember one time someone being like grossly disappointed with Nugent because they were watching the Spirit of the Wild and it was a date stamp and Ted was hunting in Texas on October one, and they were infuriated that how could the motor city man man? Uh, how could he? That's Michigan's opening day of deer seasons. Why would Ted not be in Michigan? And he was like, I'm tired of he's It's our opening day and he's in Texas? Like you like you can't win, Patty, patty, petty, just saying you've occupied, You've occupied that thing. Now to say to to say something like and I can I see how it's received to throw out like whack them and stack them. At least people be like what is getting whacked and where is it getting stacked? Do you have you ever in your life? Later late in bed and thought, you know, I stand by what I was saying, but I should have said it differently. Never if I if I need to explain what whack and stack means, I'm gonna call N one and get you some fucking help. Um. You know what the most, the most, the thing that shook me up the most is when you pointed out catching the limit of blue girls, because yeah, you stay until you get your limit, you stack, yeah, you know, and that and and to go back and smell the it's a little bit of historical revision to go back to the nineties and and and criticize a statement because back then when he was when he was in trouble with my friend for missing mission. You know, I'm just saying, i'm i'm i'm I'm defending the Whackham and Stackham statement because today, in a world where you know, maybe the more you know it would be, you wouldn't say that as much in some circles. Okay, he was coming out of a time when we were trying to make hunting relevant and fun and exciting, and it introduced that, so it accomplished I would say, a pretty significant purpose during that time. There's kinds of things I see in the hunting worlds all kinds of things I see like I see it, and I'm like, I agree with it. I've done it too. Um, there's nothing to be ashamed of. But now they're just like just just come on, alright, let's put about like just think for a minute about the ram the possible ramifications of of like what you're doing right, Like to have that got a bear, I'm gonna put a baseball hat on him. I'm gonna set him up in the car seat, and I'm gona put a cigarette in his mouth. Right, the bear is dead. The bear is dead. You killed the bear. Legally, you're allowed to transport the bear. I wouldn't question any I like, I support everyone's right to hunt bears. You know where we have a population that that warrant that that can support honey, which I support your ability to transport your wildlife as you see fit, top your car, back your car on the hood. I support. I don't think there should be a law saying one shouldn't put a bear in a thing. If someone said there's a law against dressing dead bears up, I would be very incredulous of like how you're gonna enforce that what exactly it means. But does that mean that it's smart to put a baseball hat on a bear and a cigarette in his mouth to drive around downtown. I believe that it's so inconsequ so inconsequential that we're wasting our breath discussion, and that's a that's a totally valid point. But I do look now. Then I'm like, among my own brothers and sisters, I looked now, and then I'm like, man, it's just creating, Like it's just creating problems where there aren't any. You're creating a dialogue that isn't necessary to create about whether or not you should be able to put hats on bears and cigarette in the mouth. You know, if you look at the industry now, you watch all the different shows, whether it's pig Man or Tim Wells or or fred Eichler or some of my favorite shows, and you see the ads by huge hunting corporations whack them and stack them, educated them that they better have energy, they better promote this sport with energy and enthusiasm and fun, because if it's not fun, ain't nobody gonna go. And I epitomize that if if, if you may that I've never been inhibited. I have fun with it. What is the difference between whacking and stacking and harvesting and butchering? Period? And you already gained your double middle face? And how petty can you be? And it's the same embarrassing depth of pettiness that I was. Why wasn't ten noogion in Michigan and October one? Oh shut the fuck up, listen. That was my response at the time. That was my response at the time, And it's become something of a joke. However, I was just pointing out, Hey, I was setting the stage to be that a person in your situation is just inherently gonna have people pecking at you. Let her rip peck away it again, I'll try to summarize it like this, and it's it's conclusive and the definition of summary. Families with terminally ill sons and daughters five six seven year old little boys and girls. For whatever reason, I think I know the reasons, because of my enthusiasm, because of my energy on spirit of the while for thirty three years I've been doing this. That little boy making Lynn six years old, going to die of cancer in six months his last week question in life was to go hunt with Ted Nugent. So guys that are more polite, guys that won't welcome and stack um people that won't put a cigarette in the bear's mouth, making Lynn doesn't even know the exist a cigarette the bear's mouth. Next bear, I kill him going to But my point is these little boys and girls, their families. Is there a more demanding vetting procedure? Whether you deserve to take my little boy on his last hunt, then a family at that emotional, horrible time in their lives to call the whack master. If I qualify for that, my critics can kiss my ass. And I've done it dozens of times. If I have earned that, I'm untouchable. How about that? How about Chris Chris Campbell, Navy seal who went to save Marcus Latroell and the chopped the chopper crashed his will and testamon was that he wants Ted Newton to play Fred Bare at his funeral. Critics bring it and here's the ultimate, this will leave you hurt. So Marcus called me and said, Chris's family would like you to play Fred Bare when his remains come home. When and where got my guitar? And aunt got a buddy with the jet getting ready to go on to go to Norfolk, and Marcus called back and said, you've been disinvited by President Barack Obama. He won't allow you there. So the president, the commander in chief, who I am diametrically opposed to on every issue, every breath the man takes. That's his stand to say fuck you to a Navy seal who died for our country by declining that dead seals request and disinviting Ted Nugent to play fred Bear at the return of his remains. I'm the good guy. My critics are bad guys. That happened, That's exactly what happened. So I did a private one for his family at a different time. But how low can you go? If you're the commander in chief of the United States of America and a dead seal has a request and you decline it because you don't like the guy involved with the request, How beautiful am I? I can hardly stand me. I'm so fucking good if that kind of evil is that against me? That's why my confidence cup runneth over. Because that little kid's family thinks I'm okay to fulfill his They're dying son's request, and that Navy seal wants me to play that song. I'm surprised my feet touched the ground. It's a blessing, it's a gift. I'm humbled by it. I'm honored beyond words. But those indicators in my life make people who are upset with me for not being in Michigan October one. The so stupid, it's hysterical. My priorities have obviously been well aimed. That fred Bear said keep doing what you're doing. That the family of a dying child thinks I qualify to fulfill the dying request, and a Navy seal's family wants me to play that fred Bear song as funeral. I mean, is there is there other more powerful indicators in life? Can you name any I can't, Or that my my own family relations ship, or that you're here to do an interview with me. I qualified for the Mediator podcast. UM, I have enough UM and it is UM. And I know I'm controversial because in a world gone berserk, good is controversial. Well, I gotta tell you, you know, there's a long period of my life where I had it was outside all the time, ingested very very little hunting media or media of any sort. And uh, you know, Clay and I were talking on the right over here to the ramps this morning. I'm like, where we know Ted Nugent from? Essentially right? So, um, and I have one article I was always always aware of of Ted Nugent. But you're like rocker fame, stardom guy, And truly I didn't give you, you know, like you see with people on TV. Was like, I don't know if this guy's what he actually is, but I'm sure, I'm sure there's a good paycheck there. And uh, I pick up magazine off the back of my buddy's toilet, started going through it and I'm reading about it was like an opening day type of scene of l counting and it's one of your articles, and man, I'm I'm there, I'm you're You're talking about the Woods coming alive and the Elker bugling. It's dark. You're not in him yet, but you know what's going to happen. And I'm guiding out. I'm a full time Elk guy at at this point, right, And and I'm I'm living it. I'm there. And then the reveal starts happening and and you're like, you know, like a turn in my stand and I'm like, oh, guy's hunting out of a stand. Huh, okay, sure, still there, still painting the scene. And then you're on I think you even described like a feeder going off or you're described over a feeder, but I would okay, well it's a long time ago, so um there's like how the ages have progressed anyway. But you were in a high fence place and I was just like, nope, this guy no, I don't know, not legitet not, No, this is right and perfect and you know it's it's truly only come to now where I'm like, oh, this guy has You can't ignore the passion that this man has. And they're none of my bullshit meters are going off on when you talk about the animals and the outside and and the wise. But I mean, that's a big span of time from that article where I'm like, oh, this guy isn't doing it the way I do it, so he must not be. But I do do it the way you do it. I hunted Alaska seventy seven, got a moose, got a bear, got a cariboo. I hunted the Sudan as the last white guy to get out of the Sudan alive. There's no fences. Are hunted all across the world, No fences are hunted all Manistee National Forest. I hunted wild everywhere. I've hunted everywhere, no fences. But sometimes I hunt in the fence some people's lands in the fence. My land is in defence because I want to hunt Oryx and Alla dad in black buck. And it says real. It's even far more difficult than no fence Sudan, or no no fence Zimbabwe, or quite honestly, no fence Illinois, especially no fed South Texas. You want dumb retired animals to go down to South Texas and make the sound of a corn feeder going off. And I'm all for that, because I like to kill stuff with my bow and arrow. I like to get close. I've done it all and I will continue to do it all. I still my Michigan ground. I have a high fence in Michigan, but my acres is all wild, wild ground. And I'll give you a bow and arrow, and if you can kill a deer in my ground, you can have it. Good luck. They're the smartest animals in the world. And here on this prop pretty you get your bow and arrow. You can have whatever you kill, and you ain't gonna kill Shit's the smartest, spookiest animals. You better be co Chiefe meets Natty Bumpo, because these these animals are spookier than my Michigan swamp animals. These animals are so tuned in. So I hunt for the hunt, and all my hunts are the hunt. Now do I desire a dumb deer? I deserve a dumb deer. I need a dumb deer after a few weeks a hunt. And if you want that, go to Illinois next to one of those forest preserves. Those are wild deer. There's no fences, but they're dumb Kansas. Some dumb deer. Um, Ohio, some dumb deer compared to my Michigan deer. Um. My first white tail in Wyoming up there near the Devil's Tower. God, that was the easiest deer I've ever killed in my life. A hundred yards away. They don't even care if you're there. I've never seen a deer like that in my life. And I couldn't wait to go back because I'm sicking, tired of white tails and snorts. Um. So I've done it. All back when I was hunting Alaska every year every year from seventy seven and the wilds of Africa, still hunting with a bow and arrow. I didn't film any of that because there was no outdoor TV and I didn't even have any idea. I just wanted to go hunting, so I I do hunt the way you hunt. Yeah, I guess. My My point though, is that at that that point of reading the article, I thought you and I were quite a post and it just takes a long because of the high fence to come full circle. Well, because I also had this image of like, guy's got this big lifestyle that's far outside of hunting, right, touring, rock and roll, awesome, all the things that you think about stuff you can you connect with him and you see some of the positions he's got. Yeah, but it's taken a hell of a long time. Well. Yeah, what I've always I have never doubted um, even in the areas where you've said things and I'm like, man, I wish you wouldn't have said it that way. Uh, Like I agree with the sentiment. I suppose you wouldn't have expressed it that way. It's it's always been where I have always known and felt that we were in large measure talking about the same things. I mean, I've known since those days in the late eighties early nineties that you uh did find that like that, that that that sentence that you've said many times, like the spirit of the wild, of that phrase of spirit of wild, that you felt that spirituality and and promoted it and connected with it. Finally, I've never doubted that ship. I've never doubted that. It's just yeah, at times I have because of the role you're in. At times I've just been let something that's that's happening here that I can maybe I could say, is that you guys, it's interesting sitting here with Steve Rinella and Ted Dugent because you your passion for hunting and the way you articulated in the excitement and all the things that you did years ago that formulated stuff. I think you've had a big influence on Steve Rinella absolutely who who I mean, a very positive influence on the way like talking about the spirit of the wild when in his own words, Steve talks about the exact same thing, I think, and you learned to play I never learned to play a guitar when I was a kid. You learned to play guitar at first he learned how play was Red Bear. Yeah. It's just like did you just let me? Let me make no, I never never touched. We need to hear him place. We need to hear him play Fred Bear. But you, but but so. Steve Ronnella is the guy that came on the scene, you know, ten fifteen years ago, that brought a new academic intellect will kind of draw into hunting that a whole bunch of people have been like, man, we never heard anybody talking about hunting like that. And it was an appeal. It was the same thing you did. It really was. What he did was the same thing that you did. And it's it's interesting to see y'all sitting together because probably nine of stuff y'all would probably agree on. And the messaging and the frequency of the messaging is slightly different. And I feel like what Ted's position is is, Hey, we are what we are. There's no reason to lean any direction to try to accommodate anybody. And like there's this like stance of just this is who we are. You've come in in in in a way that we all deeply respect, have have catered the message of hunting and like probably a broader way. So here's my question. Here's my question. It's not perfect, but um so my question is, you know, I think, well, my assessment is that I think there's a place where you you stand and say, hey, this is just who we are. We whack them and stack them, it's just kind of what we do, and that's what we've been doing for you know, thousands of years, and that's just who we are as humans. We're not changing. And then but then there's also the side of the equation where we you know, cater would be the wrong word, but where we make our message more appealing to a broader audience. Do you see what I'm saying a marriage? What are the reasons you guys scoop closer in. One of the reasons that you're uncomfortable with some of my deliveries and you were uncomfortable with some of my deliveries is because before there was the term political correctness, political correctness was beginning to happen, and in the hunting Second Amendment community, our so called leaders were afraid of their own shadow. In Outdoor Life magazine, they would actually say, don't wear a camouflage in public and don't bring up the hunting and makeing people uncomfortable. It's just the total opposite approach you should take. But but I like I spent my hope. My whole career has been talking about hunting. My whole career is identifying as a hunter. I've never done anything other than talk about professionally and otherwise. I've never done anything other than hunt since before I was supposed to, before I was legally allowed to do it, to now and talk about hunting. However, at times like I have strong opinions about how I like to explain it or not how I have strong opinions about how to explain it so that people are most likely to get what I'm saying and get on board with what my program is. And a salute to you if here should do a great job at that. The whole concept of meat eater, it galvanizes the entire process of the hunt. That the fruit is sustenance. So I'm not I'm not sitting there being like oh no, nor no, don't show that that's dirty and naughty. That's not it. I'm like, listen, there's a lot to be proud of here. Um, I just have opinions about how I like to and you do a fine job. I support you do it long before me and I and I don't even like to be in here. I don't even like to be in your acting Like there's sort of like you're what you've done, what I've done, and and juxtaposed at all, you've been there long before me. I'm just like, as as a point, we've talked to a couple of areas c w D and whacking, I'm stacking as a point where I'm like, I'm like dead man. I just I wish you thought about this a little differently, but I thought I thought about it a lot, and I'm not going to think about it differently because I think that I think the best remedy against denial um propaganda, against hunting propaganda, against venison propaganda against us a self ancient lifestyle, which is what we embody and what you promote beautifully. I think I promoted more effectively because I'm uninhibited and that that you'll never well, I was gonna I was gonna say, you will never address the outside demographic, but you have. You've lured in and outside demographic a lot because there was an establishment of field to table prior to meet eare and you you maximize that delivery in a or in a perfect way. But there's more to Here's the thing, Krens, give me the wrap it up. Let me let me just say one night, that'll be the day. Look at it like this for a second, thoughts. Let's say you're addressing the American public. I do everything. That's what people came to this podcast to hear. Let's say one's addressing the American public, and their interest is that they want to be able to continue, um, they want to be able to continue their lifestyle of honey, and they want to make sure that there is a lot of wild animals around Okay, And they come to the American public and they're like, Hey, in the back of my head, I'm trying to preserve my lifestyle, preserves something that I feel is beautiful and right, which is hunting, hunting, fishing, trapping. Like these things that are like right, traditionally used practices need to be defended. And I have like promoted, not defended, preserved, defended, promoted, preserved whatever. And I have one minute to speak to him about it. I might be more inclined to take my minute and say something like, um, there's there's a system that works very well, and we fine tuned it in this country where we have biologists and others that count population levels and determine the long term that are that are tasked with guaranteeing the long term viability of these species, and they determine that they set regular elations by which we abide. This is not a free for all. We're not driving game animals to extinction. Quite the opposite. The things that are thriving most in this country are the things that have hunters interest. Your minutes up, by the way, that was your minute. That was awesome. But like I would tend to take an approach like that, well, you need to do more. You need to do more homework. Did you see I'm serious? Don't like it? You need to do more homework. Did you see my v H one Hunting special? You didn't see it? Did you? Did you see my MTV? Don't? I didn't see this stuff? Did you see him? Because I articulated that profoundly. I never said that you didn't articulate, well, good, but you said, given a minute, you do it your system. You did it good. But guess who's done it better, longer, and to thousands of times more people than you have in all across Europe, all across When was the last time you're on Tucker Carlson explaining sustained yield wildlife abitat Well, my point is I'm not I'm I got, I got. I can't tell you well, I'm gonna get you on because you a great job. But my point is is that the point you just made is the exact point I have. I'm not saying you don't have the point he's just saying, but the real I just think we don't say it different. We say it exactly the same. But when you go like, well, here's what we do is we whack them then stack them, I don't know what that's so oversimplification that example. It may not being in Michigan October first, grossfully, and he's not. He's not criticizing you for that. If it's the thing that people here and misinterpret, all I can tell you is that my my vapor trail of recruitment and retention ed unparalleled, beau. And you know why, because I'm uppity, I'm believable, I know my science. I mailed to articulate my science and then and bellowship because I'm just typically an uppidea guy. I'm very much alive, but that uppidness and aliveness is the contagious factor. That's what draws them in. And here's an example. And again I'm not bragging. I know what I do. And again the dear will home humble me immensely later on, as as will Mrs Nugent. But when I go to a shot show, okay, you can promote, with all due respect, I haven't been there lately with you, and I mean this with respect. You can promote Steve or No at two o'clock at the X booth, Michael Waddell two pm. You can promote all the biggest names in our industry callahan, I will. I will stop to tie my shoe and have more people around me than all of you guys put together. Not at a rock and roll event, at a hunting event. Touch, that's no contest for me. And no it's not anecdotal. It's universal, zero contest for me. St And and when I met I've got the highest votes ever for twenty eight years on the Border Directors of the n r A except for Troute Aston. Why because I'm absolute and I embellish. I don't intentionally embellish, it's just the way I talk. It's it's more exciting. It's more Wang Dang sweet Puntang than Billy joel um. So. So my point is by by point is is that yes, I concur a slightly different approach. My my upedness passion is so contagious and so and they know that I'm not trying to hide anything, and neither of you. Again, I can't. I can't salute your style enough. It's awesome. The whole meat eater concept is perfect, but so is hitting the demographic that will never ever watch your show, and I've caused them in many instances. I don't know the numbers, but I know it's meaningful to buy a bone arrow and to buy a hunting license and to join us. So I would if that is your like, if that is your measure, I measure is there another measure? I'm saying, if that is one's measure, undeniably, I would never ever ever come here and suggest anything other than that you are the most impactful of live human being today in the world of hunting. There is no like, There's not even a second place. Because I take advantage of every public opportunity to promote it with passion and rock and roll embellishment. That is the only where it comes to mind. And so the people who are like when I did the Joe Rogan thing, and he'll tell you that the response about the the the vapor trail of the tractor and the disk of the plow. No one had ever heard that before. No one had ever known that in order to grow tofu you gotta kill everything and anything that might slither back into that tofu field. We're gonna call man saddle, We're gonna poison the ship out of him. Um, So your Tofu salad is more deadly for your friends of wildlife services. Yes, You're Tofu salad is more deadly than if ted Nugent traded his bone arrowin for an a ten ward hog. You can't kill more stuff than the growing of vegetables and wine. It's the it's the definitive genocide of anything threatening those agricultural products. No one has ever even mentioned that before, because I'm the only guy in the public visibility that actually runs a tractor and likes the seagulls and the crows following me. And I know that I'm slaughtering everything so I can grow let us or whatever crop I'm growing. So it's that boots on the ground, understanding the communication needs of conservation to a distant, disconnected demographic. And I've drawn them in. Um do I piss some people off? Yeah, mostly people in the industry that don't get it, that will never recruit anybody. It's literally like I'm saving kids from the Whitewater rapids and the swimming coach is angry and Cal's English teacher in Missoula, Montana. Yes, yes, he saved the children. But did you see that speed? Would have made my mama man too? But I made my mama man. Actually, my mama love this ship. So my my point is that I'm a spirited, unafraid, unapologetic absolutist, and I do PG thirteen because I speak to a lot of young organizations on Spirit of the Wild. I know that I have a presidented, youthful demographic, even though one of the oldest guys on there on TV because of my exuberance, because of my I'm unafraid, And you didn't adjust your style because you felt that you had to reach an expanded demographic. I think it's really you. I didn't. I don't. I never Yeah, I never imagine making a style. I was just like, there's a thing I cared about, and that's how I cared about it. That's what I'm saying, the same thing my motivation completely. I could care less whether I make people happy or angry. This is what I believe and this is how I present it and it I'm not for everybody. You're not for everybody, But thank god we're both in the same team. Are there? Are there? What are you afraid of? Nothing? Nothing at all, not even just you don't feel You don't feel like a weekly daily like a fear of something, nothing, never anything. It's because I've carved out this unbelievable dream. Only look at what I live. I mean, I live on paradise here in my mission. Gotta come to Michigan, my swamp. I have a fan. I have the largest fin east of the Mississippi. It's a unique wet lade um. And the biologists come because I got the mitchell Sadder butterfly that's thriving. It's almost extinct everywhere else. And the Christmas tree fern, which they claimed the Mitchell Satter butterfly needs to propagate and they all the biologists go, you know why you're fin is so healthy because you must kill a lot of deer. Yep. So I know what sustained yield is. I know what happened at Karen Capacity. I'm the first guy to bring those terms into the public arena, as the first guy to do that. Nobody from s c I ever did that. But not only that, but they're not allowed in the public arena because they're too stodgy. Um so, so I I've carved out a dream where I'm I'm really not afraid of anything. Um. You funk with me, you lose um and I I live this independent, cocky, confident, righteous, do good lifestyle. And it's so simple. That's why my music is so raw. And I mean, I have a new record coming out next month. Is just he had a record come out last year, just like was it just pre covid He had a record coming out. Music made me do it? Monster saw this new record? Holy god, you want a riot? Um So, yeah, I'm old, but I'm healthy. Uh, and I live perfect life. It's just I want for nothing, guys. One last question, go nuts. There are many concerns, but if you have advice for outdoorsman. Let's even say outdoorsmen and outdoors women. Yes, would What would you like? What is the piece of advice you have for people that want to preserve a lifestyle? Well, every problem in American can be traced down two conservatives not engaging And again, what's what's conservative? Values? God, family, country, constitution, bill of rights, that work, ethic, that entrepreneurial spirit, that man in the arena, law and order. All those things I just mentioned are not only the foundational values that made this the greatest quality of life in the history the world, but they're also very controversial today. All the best things about America are considered controversial. So we've discovered through our Hunter National organization to people go to Hunter Nation dot org they can see the statistics. We bought the list of every license hunter in America back in when we saw an outsider campaigning for the presidency against a horrible, horrible, power abusing, criminal Clinton organization, and when what we discovered was so heartbreaking that in every state there's an enormous and consequential percentage of licensed hunters that are not registered to vote and that have never registered to vote. But they're also the loudest squawkers about infringements on Second Amendment rights, UM regulations, hunting regulation, hunting, fishing, and trapping, which I've always used the Big three, hunting, fishing, and trapping. They're all critical is central conservation UH and endeavors that an embarrassing percentage of licensed hunters don't vote. We got Michigan, Wisconsin passage over of licensed hunters and Texas have never registered to vote. How could that be true? How can that be true? Wisconsin, Michigan fifty some percent, Pennsylvania mission Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, the Big three, even though Texas is more powerful and more UH are inclusive then those three states inten I campaign um maniacally in Missigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania to basically inspire slash scold what I consider to be the most defined conservative demographic, A license hunter, all those basic traditional family values are they embody the hunting lifestyle, the hunting family. And we got them to register and vote in and we won. Though as a five or one C three I can endorse a candidate, and I never did. But when you mentioned God, family, and country, you know who that doesn't include. And all across this country, every state has an embarrassing percentage of license hunters that are not engaged. And again I'm controversial because I've always been engaged when I see stupid regulations. I protest when I see Scott County Park and Brown County Park no hunting allowed, and it looks like a moonscape and it's all dirt and ribby deer. We attended UH meetings with the bureaucrats and we opened up bow hunting in those states and their vegetation. The habitat came back, and the diversity came back, and revenues are generated and family hoars of recreation were generated. And it didn't happen just by buying a hunting license. Now, it happened by lobbying and by showing up at these committee hearings and raising hell and identifying the embarrassment of environmental destruction when you don't harvest responsibly. And so I've seen how just speaking up can change stupid into good. Um. And that's what that's what I've always been involved with. When I see regulations like in Michigan, even if you had to concealed weapons permit, which don't need Ultimately, you don't need a permit from anybody to carry a gun. God gave you the right to keep bear arms. But even if you had a permit, which I did back in the sixties and seventies, you couldn't carry a pistol when you're bow hunting. How do you square that? Since when does self defense have anything to do with recreational concerns? And so I lobbied against that. There were eleven counties in Michigan you couldn't hunt on Sundays. My brain didn't know what to do with this information. Sant just insane, which it is, So I lobby and got those counties legalized. Steve, did you know you must know? In Michigan until nineteen seventy five the government said you can't climb a tree and hunt. What have you gotta be? There's a man in charge of my tree climbing. I want to meet this guy. I'm gonna hire Mike Tyson. Whenever anybody does something stupid, I'm saying, Mike, give that guy one in the throat. Would you just punch him? Because how insane regulating somebody out of a tree? How embarrassing is that? So so yeah, i've i've I like that. You uh, you work within the system often yet by expanding the system to a fluid common sense. But yeah, you but you, uh, half of you rebels against it, behalf of you is very willing to engage in it. Well, I think to get the change you're after, You're like, there's a civil disc you have, you have like a strong civil disobedience vein, Well make it legal. Yeah, but then you also have a policy vein. And I think, uh, the ultimate rebellion is engagement. And again this is an experiment. That's the thing that glues them together. And I think they're one and the same in actual practice. And so when I see stupid, I attack it and I spotlight what makes it stupid, so that people who have accepted stupid finally goes, yeah, that is stupid. You know. You know, Cal spends a good part of his uh personal and professional life cajoling people into engagement. Yes, sometimes it takes advocacy, and all you hear is talk about hunting and politics out of it. It is politics. What the hell you doing? What is more political than hunting regulations? It's so yeah, it's driven me crazy. And that's where you hear the squawking within the industry and Nugent's radical hello of course I'm radical. How dare I experiment self government? That's the most radical thing in the history of the human experience. I'm really swinging over to this uncle Ted Moniker, You Michiganders have, We've got a lot in common. Ted, Well, Ted, you would love his podcast for real. It's information. You don't find me how to access all these things? And now in my spirit, uh campfire, you should witness it's all over the map. It's guitar playing, and it's social stuff. It's silly stuff, it's hardcore stuff. It's condemnation of power abusers and illegitimacy that infests our government. But it's also fun, outrageous, defiant, uninhibited, irreverent, all of my favorite things. Your reverence important. We need to We need a media episode with you two in Michigan. Absolutely absolutely, how about this? Let me leave you with this another one. That's what I gotta leave you with. Can you give us so I don't have to argue a bunch of people? Can you right now give us the verbal okay? Is are you legally allowed to say that? We can close the episode with Fred Bear absolute? In fact, some some annoying person is not going to give us I think you should open it at least with that opening core. That's the altim we recently used it. We do a trivia show and the thing we recently used it a clip on the trivia show. I would use every all of it. But I have a song on the new record called American Campfire and a song called a song called Winter Spring Summer Fall that I'll play it for you, um that it's just beautiful. Have you ever heard my instrumental sunrise? Oh what if that doesn't capture our You're getting to their location and waiting for the life to come alive around us. That only I could have written that, and it was spontaneous. I got Michael LUTs and Ann Arbor had a new recording device. I go, well, I got my six string Fender base here, um here, put a mike in here, let's do this Take one. I made that song out of no that's how fred Bare happened. Take one. I showed it to my guys in between sobbing and we recorded it take one. So yeah, I use that stuff. Use Sunrise. It's a beautiful. It's I'm the only guy who's created really outdoorsy music. That's who else? What other song is outdoors Don't give me This, and there's out Doorsy and then there's a doors and balls Sunrise. Sunrise is a beautiful it's a it's symphonic and winter spring, summer far. I have a song on my last a couple of albums ago called earth Tones that it's just just orchestrated Amboy Duke's Hibernation Migration. Check out the song Migration on the first Amboy Dukes a beautiful instrumental, orchestrated, symphonic, you know, crescendo, here comes the elk. I I unleashed that in my music. I'm very very proud of that. Alright, this is great, deadly you people deserve me. You are special people. Thank you. I've always said, if you're not having fun with me, you're weird. Thank you very much. Thanks. We're at a strangle hold. It's strangles it's Amazon