This is me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening Hunt e podcast. You can't predict anything presented by first, like creating proven versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear for every hunt first like go farther, stay longer, All right, everybody joined today very special guest Tucker Carlson, host of Fox News Channels, Tucker Carlson Tonight this is where it gets confusing, and host of Fox Nations Tucker Carlson Today and Tucker Carlson Originals, which got Crian wondering, Um, since Tonight is encapsulated in Today, what's the different scene in two shows? You know, I haven't need to I haven't looked at my contract, and no other is. There is a distinction, but it's a lot of talking in both. Hit me with a bunch of superlatives you have, like you're the you're the most watched cable news commentator, cable news newscaster, having been this is my year doing this, and having been the least watched cable news commentator. I see everything is kind of the Buddhist wheel of life, So I'm on one end of it at the moment, doubtless will be on the other end. You know you have it on the other end. You know you would know this because I can't say that we met but you um uh I was in your presence one time because years ago uh t r c P. Yes, theater rules about conservation partnership. They do this Capitol Awards dinner where they give the usually honor, they honor someone from each side of the aisle. Yes, so the honor Republican and a Democrat, and then usually someone from the House, usually from someone from the Senate, sometimes too governors. And you gave some opening remarks. You might have noticed a young man in the audience. So I like them, and I like try to unlimited there. I mean, I lived in Washington for a long time and I dealt with a lot. Obviously I care about conservation and the land and all that, and I but I only trust the groups with sportsman in um. I mean, if you can't tell a deciduous from a conifer, if you can't like identify fish species, like you're you're faking it. And those guys are for real and they fish and they shoot in and I like that. You have a conversation. There are a lot of there are a lot of fake groups out there. Whoa uh you know, I I've always only been focused on the sportsman ones. They're the best because they were talking the same language, because they're rooted in physical reality, you know, saving the environment. Okay, what environment? And how are you saving it? And how is it improving? You know, so if you can go to it, I mean, that's it. It's not it's a non ideal logical measure, but like, tell me what you're doing with the money. And and that's one of the reasons I like to you. It's like, well, okay, there's a stream near my house that they improved. How did they improve it? They you know, they put more cover. Do you know? They put some pools in. Like that's a good thing. The fish like it. I like it, you know, I'm happy to give money to them. Um anyway, So but the other day we did a tu who was more involved than that. It was us, our company, trot I think Trotten Limited did it right, the river clean up the Gallatin County chapter. Yeah, there's two companies that are base here, SIMS, like we're based here. SIMS is based here. The Waiter company. But then tu put on a basically just cleaning trash out of the lower. If you're taking tires out of the stream, I'm on your side. You know, I've mentioned a bunch of times. But do you remember the humorist m Patrick McManus, he's the right like humor fishing pieces. Yes, I do. He had a piece where he explained that the difference between a creek and a creek is that a creek has a tire in it. Truck tires all the time. Uh. So audio books sales update um Man with our camp Fire Metiators camp Fire Stories, Close Calls came out on Tuesday. By Tuesday night, it was number one on Apple for audiobooks. It was bounced between two and four on Audible, number two and number four. We're like neck and neck with all uh, alright, alright, Matthew Connaughey's book and neck and Neck with one of the political tell alls that's out right now. So that books kicking ask and I'll tell you that's all too. Uh. That's all you listeners that did that for us, um, because we have there was no it's an audio original, so there's no like physical book, right, Um, there's no h it's just you guys did that. Thanks for the support, because it wasn't from there's no like media channel that was supporting us. We just like made it, did it, and it launched up and became the number one book on Apple for audio that day out of the gate. So thanks to everyone listening man, heartfelt appreciation. And then also, you guys really made my di because we had ore. We finally had the our Wilderness Skills um and Survival book made the New York Times bestseller list thanks to you guys. There's no other way to there's no other way to account for it, which I actually read. Yeah, it's great, It was great, So appreciate the help everybody out there. Uh here's I added this one cran, you know, I added a note New Jersey will now have no bear season at all. Um, it was that you weren't gonna be able to do it one on like state Land. Now you can't do it at all. And like they have a they have a management plan, but everyody's gotta sign off on the management plan, so they just are acting like they just haven't read the management plan. So now like past a certain deadline, no one actually said there can't be a bear season, but the opponents of the bear season just stalled furthering the management plan and like, haven't read it the deadline hit. Now that the deadline hit, it's too late in the year. Huh. If you live in New Jersey, gotta get a brand new governor. Phil Murphy campaigned is like ending the bear That was like a campaign promise to end bear hunting? Is there a population conservation argument to be made for the decision? New Jersey has the highest density of black bears in the They ate a kid from Regers a few years ago. Bears. It takes a lot for a black bear to eat someone. There have to be a lot. What they would do, what they would do that was stupid in my view, is when you hunt bears in New Jersey and you get a bear, you have to go to the check station. Okay, but they just have check stations out in public, like in a parking lot off the side of the road, and they publicize it here. When you get a bear, you very you go and you take it to what would make sense. You go to the Fishing Game office and you meet with a biologist and you go to a place a secure location whatever. Not secure, but it's not. It's like they don't like call the press to tell him you're coming down with the bear. They pull a tooth to get the biometric data, and you register the bear here they have like they were like on Saturday at noon, we'll be registering bears at this public pull out and so everybody shows up there and has like a connection. They do that what they did that with white tails too. I remember shooting deer in New Jersey and taking it down to the local Delhi and you show a guy and you hand you a sight. He's tag over the ham. It's just it wouldn't be a site he's tag. Yeah. They would give you a red like tag that you would then clip on the deer after you checked it in. That's what they do in main. No sids is the international What the hell side he's call's that's right, not side, But it's like that same same sort of tag, like the metal tag E clip on. Uh. Murphy's one of those dudes that also as well. He's one of those dudes that during his state's lockdown, he had the really thing where someone made a very embarrassing video where he's out at a restaurant with everybody and then this woman comes off to him who's making the video, and she goes, Murphy, you're such a dick. I thought she was a bear hunter, but she was just pissed about the I think it's important to point out, though, that that the governor doesn't care about bears. He's not doing this on behalf of bears. He's doing it on behalf of the segment of the population that cares about bears, and he wants that vote. This person not out saving bears. Another states one of the like statistically crazy things, UH that that you're kind of glossed over is the student. The record student that was eaten was in a group of hikers. So you know, an individual is one thing. A group being accosted by a bear and an individual being taken out of that group puts it into a wholly another statistical category. Black bear. Has that ever happened before? I've never heard it, not to my knowledge. It's probably some crazy bear. Yeah, yeah, I mean it is a wild deal with that that bear consumed part of that student and because of that, he was protecting his cash. And the UH has a DNR and in New Jersey, I can't think of what it is I say, um, the State Fish and Wildlife agency that always covers you. Right, you look like you know what you're talking about. Yeh uh oh. We got a quick book report, so we have a bunch of times talked, but we're trying to explain, like, what's up with um? This became of interest, what's up with us? What what we used to call silencers but have been rebranded as suppressors. And I was explaining how when I first got a suppressor, I turned in my paperwork and it took fourteen months, and then I thought something had changed. I said, I don't know what changed, but it felt like something changed. And then someone starts talking about I'm holding in my hand what's called Yeah, this is some listen. I'm all for it, but this is some BS. Yeah, I love it, but it's b It's like, well, I'm holding my hand a suppressor that doesn't have the whole drilled in it, right, which prompted to me that there was a remember a garage band And when I was a kid in Michigan, there was a garage band that sold records and no hole in it and the record was called Drill your Own Hole. It's like the album it was marked, but you have to drill your own hole. So this is a drill your own hole and similarly take it over because Garret's gonna explain this whole world does Yeah, I was gonna say, if you drilled your own hole in the wrong spot, it'd probably wrecked the album and you'd probably have a like an adverse effect on your suppressor there if you just drilled it off to the side. Yeah, so that that company, Actually this is yours, that's mine. Yeah, so it doesn't have a hole in the end of it. When they send you your solvent trap, uh, they send you a drill bit and a guide for your drill bit just in case, just in case he might, you know, want to turn into a suppressor. Walk us through the walk us through all the legs. Yeah. So the legal like like you laid out with the regular suppressor side. You know, it's a pretty long but straightforward process where you have to file for to get your own suppressor. Right, this is solvent traps are just another form of a homemade suppressor. So people have been doing it, like with oil filters, right, they buy an oil filter, plug a hole in the end of it, and it's a suppressor. Because really a suppressor is just like a like a muffler on a car. Like that's maximum suppressors. They are pretty well, they were the first ones. Like Theodore Roosevelt ran a suppressor on his gun right there, right, Yeah, did you just learn that in your little research session or did you already know that? Oh Man NiFi was on the spot. Yeah he was, he was all about it. But yeah, so Cheddy Roosevelt rano suppressor lever action. Yeah, what was the chamber? Yeah, so yeah, I did suppressor on a lever gun. Well, I think they had to have just like welded it on there. There's no other way to do it. Yeah, so no, he did on several guns. But the biggest thing is so homemade suppressors have been around for a while. And so what the a t F did is they established this like it's a form one. So it's an e form that you can fill out that says, hey, I want to build a suppressor um and you have to get permission to build one. That's why there's not a whole drilled in the end of that one is I haven't got permission yet. And also you don't drill the whole till they say, you can drill the hole exactly. So the thing that's attractive about this that makes a hell of a lot more sense. Now, what's attractive about this is like your experience with fourteen months, which is a little different now, like it's more like seven to eight months. Yeah, well, Silence are Central, they're doing them in twelve weeks. Eight twelve weeks or no, I don't think so. I feel like somebody kind of maybe misspoke when they said that, but it's still like seven to eight months. The nice thing about Silence are Central, it's different is like you saw it, you can go up, you know, buy your suppressor, fill out a form, and then they take it from there and you don't have to do anything, Like you don't have to worry about how to fill out all the other paperwork. They just auto populated all and then they send it because they have a FFL in every state, they just send it directly to your house. Like there's no checkout process right like when it's approved, it goes right to your house and they do the fingerprinting. So like I noticed that they're at the Sturgist Bike Rally. At the Sturgist Bike Rally, they can fingerprint you. Yeah, which normally dudes. I think that dudes that sturges aren't looking to get fingerprinted. Yeah, I mean, certainly not having sentence, but many have been before. This is the second time I got fingered. Just go down to the county jail. They have them for me. Uh yeah, they should be on file broum. But the attractive thing with homemade suppressors or buying a solvent trap is you can realize explain what a solvent trap is, all right, yeah, because nobody can see it that was being passed around. A solvent trap is for for all intensive purposes. It's a suppressor that doesn't have the handhole drilled in. Yeah, why would one. When you're cleaning your gun, right, you can push patches through your gun and it catches the solvent in the patches, so it doesn't. So I mean, you know, I've actually pushed solvent into that solvent trap just because that's why I bought it. Do you think that? Yeah? But here, let me ask you this. Do you think that anyone out there on the planet has um use the solvent trap? Just a trap? Solvent? Originally? Yes, like it was a thing. They looked a lot different than this right, it was. It was not a undrilled suppressor when it originally came out. Use that for a suppressor to but a Charman permit. So these solvent traps where they're attractive is like they're pretty much a suppressor without a whole drilled in the end of it and you can extrapulate from there. But what did that one cost you? So that was seven bucks? So they charge in the suppressor fees. Yeah, if you go to the same site, it's also seven hundred bucks for a suppressor, right, so there's the same cost. You'll notice my name and there's some other numbers are engraved on that and uh, put your glasses on. But the reason for it is if you buy a solvent trap, a lot of companies just you know, thinking maybe you want people to be able to find it in case you lose it, um ask if you want certain things engraved on the side of it. And the reasoning for that is when you turn a solvent trap into a suppressor, when you're filming filling out your e form, your form one, they require you to state your name, where it's manufactured, the serial number, and I think like the caliber, and they said it has to be printed on your suppressor that you're making. So lot of these companies, when they send you a solvent trap, they'll just ask you what you're putting on your form one, just in case you decided to turn, just in case you want to drill a hole. Um. Now, the attractive thing about it is if you're willing to go through like those steps. Um, A lot of times you're approved in sixty days, sometimes less, sometimes more like six weeks. You can have that now I screwed my then just as legal. The main difference is that it's electronics. So the reasoning that a regular suppressor takes so long is you send in all this paperwork to the A T. F. Right, and then they have to file it, and then they're checking on you and they're checking on the manufacturer. What's frustrating about is after all that time, when you send in your paperwork, the system that they check is the same system that when you go to go get a firearm. Right. So like a lot of knicks, right, yeah, the Knick system. Right. So like a lot of countries when they sell you fire up. Not a lot, but there's a lot of European countries when they send sell you a firearm, like you can buy it with a suppressor on it, because they're like, well, if we checked you out for a firearm and you don't have a you know, felonies or anything like that, why couldn't you have a suppressor. And so that's why I like the the whole solvent trap thing is pretty cool if you're willing to go through those steps right and and fill out an e form because yeah, six weeks usually you can have a suppressor. So are you waiting on um? Yeah, John Law until you can drill your hole. Yeah, I screwed up the first process they send you. They basically send you a confirmation email that says, hey, sign this and send in your fingerprints. Um. And I didn't see that. And then you have thirty days to print it off and send it back. And I did it at thirty five. And then I called him and pleaded with them, and they're like, no start over. But yeah, other than that, it would have been drilled by Now tell everybody about how you we're honored with Employee of the Month. You're a meta. I was. Yeah. It's also the first time on the podcast Garrett Long Second Ladies and gent Garrett Long. Yeah, I was at the feel doesn't know what you do? Yeah, just for the audience, I guess. I guess my job is to make sure that people listen to the podcast. Um, so I'm the marketing director here. But yeah, I was on it when I was at Cheap Foundation. Oh yeah, yeah, you wouldn't remember. But you didn't work for us then, No, I didn't work for you. Um, but that was pretty cool. We were kind of upset actually because we tried to find like this specific brand of wild cheap whiskey to bring in and then we asked you after the podcast if you want to have a drink, and you're like, oh, I don't drink anymore. And then it was like a couple of months later, you were drinking like a beer in one of the episodes. We're like, oh, man, wrong brand of whiskey. Well, no, it's just I've I bounced around on drinking and drinking, like I like, I drank last night, but I still don't drink right right? Do you know what I'm saying? I do feel like though, Yeah, you were there for it was awkward last night. Yeah, what did I say to the waitress? Yeah, for half a shot of vodka in your body. She was very she didn't really know. Well, no, here's the problem. I didn't know they're normal. Pore is a two ounce poor. So I said I want half the amount, and so she goes so an ounce. I'm like, no, half the amount she goes was normally too. I'm like, well, I want a quarter a quarter of the normal amount, and Brody would like my give my left over to Brody. She's very accommodating. She also looked very confused. I do think we need to go back, though, Steve. This employee of the month thing, yeah, we kind of glossed over that. I was very honored you want to spend I feel like you kind of mentioned it. And I don't know if the listeners are like I grasped that I got employed in a month. He got it, and and he does Everything he does is great. But it was kind of like it was sort of a looking back on the pandemic, Garrett, when everything got shut down, the governor closed, you know what I mean, close the whole state. You weren't supposed to go anywhere. Garrett fearlessly just drove all over in his truck. He he became like ups meal Delivery Quarantine Services if you had a direct exposure and had to hold up, Garrett would come bringing your stuff. You look out your window and see him leaving stuff on your doorstep selflessly. Wow. Yeah, I actually didn't think you're gonna go into it that much, but I appreciate it. Well. Listen, you know, if there's a thing I like about people, um, I like the people who will only people who will shovel ship and not complain about it. And you were ship shoveling. Yeah, during the pandemic. He also woke up at the butt crack the other day to take Samantha Nyce shooting. So whenever you're on this podcast, no, no Spencer's experience, he usually hates the exact opposite. Definitely not Phil's experience. We'll get you next time. Next time we'll say some bad stuff about you. Oh cran, can you do the quick thing about the town? Oh okay, Yeah. So a couple of episodes ago, we talked about dear vehicle collision study where wolves and wolves saving lives possibly was kind of all part of that. Yeah, we weren't. We weren't quite sure about that, but in any case, there were a number of The study was done in Wisconsin, and uh, I really butchered the pronunciation of one county in Wisconsin. The correct pronunciation is Waka Shaw. Dozens of people wrote in to correct me on that, so we issued a correction a current NFL play, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, what did what did you call it? Waukesha? Yeah, and someone who lives in Wisconsin with family and Wauka Shaw wrote that he was just absolutely stunned that the one thing that we had missed in our correction was that Waukashaw is where the film Grumpy Old Men has had no idea. No, I don't think any. I mean, I didn't know that until when we talked about that film a lot. Yeah, which brought up you need to go go to Instagram, go to my instagram probably cals to what's your scale? Cols is like old cal four or six. Mine's very tricky. It's at Stephen Ronella. Go there and you'll see. On April one, we had a we didn't what the French would calling homage. It's brilliant to grumpy old men called grumpy middle aged men. One of the most ruthless fight scenes you'll ever see wasn't It wasn't a Wabby Shaw on the I thought it was Wabble Show in the movie. Yeah it is. I thought, Oh, is this whole thing wrong? Do we need to issue another correction. It's gonna go the way of those when you get hair growing on your eyeball. How we quit talking about that. It's gonna go Walker Shaw is going away of that. Um anyway, go check that out. It's the one of the funniest videos we put out this year, real quick. And this is gonna tie into our next talking point. So it's really slick. Um. Seth and I are fresh off well, I am fresh off a spear fishing trip to Louisiana. I'm fresh off fishing trip to Louisiana. Seth, don't get in the water. I've told anybody this. I was, I was rasing. I was like, Seth, he's not like. He doesn't like he loves the water, doesn't want to be in it. I love boats, he likes It's not he likes the water. He likes boats. Uh. I kept harrassing about why he wouldn't get in there and take a take a little shot or two with the spear gun, and he clarified to me he likes to bring the fish to him, Yeah, that's right. I need to go like boats, I like rodding reels. Doesn't need to go in there with them. But we were. This is the thing that I've been wanting to do for a long time. My god, it was fun. We were diving the oil rigs. So it's like it's hard to even explain, man, thousands of oil oil platforms to do all manner of things out How many miles out there we go? I think just over seventy. Yeah, we had a distinct advantage because our buddies had just speared a our bodies were down there to do. Um who they both been on the podcast, Greg Fonts and Alex were no and you want to see some full circle, full circling. These two are featured in the Close Calls the Mediator's Campfire Stories Close Calls edition. They're featured in the Close Calls with spear Fishing Close Calls. Um hell's that saying about us? Seth? They were down there doing something. Oh, they were there for a spear fishing tournament. So they had already like beyond scouted for two days. So we got the real gravy pickings because we went on out of the Gulf, and they knew like that rig, that rig, that rig. When the Mississippi flows out, it's got like a murky fresh water and freshwater lays on the salt water. So when you go up to a rig, like you get out of the boat and swim up to a rig, you can't see anything man Like you can hold your hand out and can't see your fingertips. In fact, you can't reload your spear gun at the surface without moving it around to see what's going on, Like you can't see the other end of the gun. But when you dive down from three ft to fifteen ft, all of a sudden, it's like you like enter the blue water. Like it's just it's like someone pulling back the curtains. So you dive down and you get through that muddy murk. And also it's like the whole world opens up unbelievable, unbelievable fish uh, which gives me to this point. These guys, you know, you'll get we were we we went out one time, fire out to try chumming. So we're chumming. What was that fish we're chumming with? You remember not bunker, No, I don't remember that. I don't remember the name of it. Yeah, I can't remember either. They used the word I wasn't familiar with. I bet I would know it by a different name. They use a lot of the guys on there use a lot of French words in it. That all their ducks, the Cajuns, all their ducks that use the French word for the duck. Um. Sharks show up like like a mofo when you're doing this, and these guys, when a shark comes in and he starts getting like kind of aggressive, what's funny is they're very good at reading the shark's mood and they'll go in and chase him like they dived down and chase him off, dive down and maybe like pokem or hit him in the nose to run him off, like you're running off a dog. Ah. And we had a recent episode we do with Kimmy Werner and she talked about the same thing. And I was remarking on her going down and confronting sharks, diving down to him to confront him to get him to move away. And this guy was saying he was listening to Kimmy's hot tip about this, and he was surfing at Dana Point California, and there was a great white that was hanging around there and he charged at it with his surfboard and spooked it off. It's huge. Yeah, gotta took Kimmy's advice, got aggressive on it. It left and never came back, so he says. But he also mentions that he did not stay in the water. He returned the shore immediately. I didn't read it that far. Yeah, So did the shark leave or did he leave a little bit of both, but he did successfully charge the shark. The fin disappeared, never to be seen again. But his vantage point from thereafter was from the shore looking out, not the surfboard looking down. He includes some beautiful photographs of the shark. Gorgeous. I like that shark a lot. Okay, now turn the attention is our last thing before we get to our guests. But this is this is sizeable, right. Are we ready to move on? Spencer has been advocating can I just tell him? Can we can just do you care if it's like kind of post modern feeling where we talk about talking about it, take the lead, go ahead, you don't care. It's very it's postmodern, it's behind the scenes, it's show businesses to thing called the fourth wall. Um, what you can imagine like whilet's stay watching the sitcom, you can see what's happened ng on three of the walls, right, like they come in the husband wife get an argument that the kids say something sassy. Right, you can see like three walls, but you never see the fourth wall. That's where the cameras so in show business will say that we broke the fourth wall. We're breaking the fourth wall. Spencer has been advocating heavily that we need to have a trivia, a trivia element, an occasional trivial trivia element to the show. Um, and I think it's got a lot of legs, and I see our path toward of board game. There's a lot of writing on this. If Spencer does, if he's good, that he has a bright future. These are trivia questions curated by me. You're not gonna find them anywhere else. Not trivia questions you're gonna get in trivial Pursuit or on Jeopardy Where your neighborhood bar and grill. This is exclusive to the Mediator podcast, but it's informed by audience correct, It's informed by things that people want to know these questions are born out of meat eaters for verticals. Tell what they are Steve hunting, fishing, wild foods, and conservation. That's right. And we have ten questions and there is a prize, so we have steaks, So no cheating off, Tucker cal when when you're writing down here, I want you to know, man, you don't have to participate. I was on Jeopardy about like like a celebrity Jeopardy or it was he was the bullshit edition, and you know I knew him. He was a nice guy. No, it was it was, Oh god, he's so unimpressive from also from Michigan. I'm sorry, No, Bob Woodward. The journalists, yeah, the journalist. And he didn't tear it up. No, he's a little slow. Actually, it was sort of surprised. And Peggy new In, who's very nice person. Why do you say it was bullshit? Do you think they like come on? Yeah? Yeah, there was like no Greek mythology and I did it hungover and did fine. It was pretty right. So the prize, so Spencer wanted forty five minutes, and we've negotiated down to think we're like twenty. Yeah, but I'm very excited about this. I think that if you I'm I hope, I'm I had Spencer sit. I made uh, Spencer has Brody's chair. I wanted to be so cold, s Spencer while he did it, to see how it went. And the prize is meat Eater has generously agreed to donate one hundred dollars to a conservation organization of the winner's choice in the winner's name. So that is what's on the line here. And if this takes off and becomes really good, we'll have to up the state. There we go. This is just an introductory level. Comminder, Philik and one of you tally up the scores for me while we do this. Right, look on, Natan, know what I should win everything. I'm saying, just tend to win everything. We were ready. Everyone has a white right. None of us know what's going on. We've never tried it. I thought we should just shout out the answers. Yeah, the first question is multiple choice. You're not going to get any more multiple choice after this, so I'm giving you. Do we keep our whole board secret? Yeah? I mean I don't want. I don't want cal Show and Garrett, And what I mean is we do all of that. There will be after the first question, I will tell you to reveal your answer, and then we'll have a moment where we can laugh at Seth because he wrote something dumb um and we all know what everyone's as. Probably that's right. Multiple choice. The topic is conservation. Which one of these conservation organizations is oldest? Wall Eyes Unlimited, Duck's Unlimited, Trout Unlimited, or White Tails unlimited. Which one is the oldest wal Eyes, Ducks, Trout or White Tails? Oh? Man, see, I feel like it's one of those ones where, oh, come on, that's obvious. I know what to put. Wow, look up. Huh. These are the only four unlimited uh conservation organizations that I could find. But I feel like we should start like a squirrel one at some point. Oh yeah, we have Rocky Mountain Squirrel Foundation. Is there really such a thing. No, we're gonna starts unofficially organization. He doesn't do anything with it. It used to be in the Honest's bio on the website that he is the founder of it. All right, does everyone have an answer? Reveal your answers. We have White Tails un Limited was found in nineteen two. Let me tell you why I put down what I never Walleyes Unlimited was found in nineteen sixty nine, Trout Unlimited in nineteen fifty five, and Ducks Unlimited. The correct answer was nineteen thirty seven. We got everyone did well there, listen, Here's why I thought it was gonna be one of those got you questions. That's kind of embarrassed. So now that I see that you're just going for I wanted it so bad to be Wales. And the great story about it is when it was founded, the founder was originally just going to just going to call it Ducks, but it was going to be an international organization, and one of the other founders pointed out to him that, well, this would be limited. This would be uh categorized as a limited corporation in Canada, so Canada would refer to it as Ducks Limited. And the founders quote was, damn it, we don't want limited Ducks. So the solution then was to name it Ducks Unlimited. But question, it's now Duck's Unlimited limited if you like dug around in the paperwork of what Canadians we forer do it as I'm guessing that's would be Comma limited. Ye, So that's and that then like I imagine Spawn Trout to give that name in white Tails and sure everyone else. So that's how it started, staying Canadians, you're into this, aren't you? Hey, where's our interest? Meters Phil, there's a lot of people in the room. I don't think I would have had space to set it up. Turn mine up if you can't got it. Question to the categories public lands? Which state has the most national parks? M hm oh, I mean by number, you know, the number of them? Oh, I think the number of national parks. Hold on a minute, man, are you talking about like like uh, like what about like Gettysburg or something like what what the National Park Service would identify as an national parks? But this is not This is not square miles, is not percentage of land, the number of them that there are, and it is a close race at the top. I will give you that hint. Yeah, because I think the smallest national park on register is less than a square mile of land. I believe so that I think so that is not the question though, reminding the questions, letting people know there's really there's at Which state has the most? I don't think I have it right. What's your fear do you think did you go to the obvious or not obvious one on this one? Because I'm thinking about something that's probably wrong, worked yourself into a pretzel. Yeah, I'm ready to tell you. Does everyone have an answer but grudgingly reveal your answers. The only person who got it right is Tucker. It is a California, California, California, California. Okay, I'll put you on. California leads the nation at nine. You then have Alaska at eight, Utah at five, in Colorado at four. Here's why I went Alaska because you know they have like the park, they have those like park and preserved designations and there's a lot of them. Man, talk about that earlier today. Explanations of why you were on. No, you do not, but I appreciate to tell you. I'm gonna quit doing it. I'm just gonna be wrong. I'm I'm I'm looking for that in this game. I want you to like make me fat chest self and explain how wrong you got it. That kind of thing. Keep it on. California nine, in Alaska eight, last GA eight, Ute five, Colorado four. The nine national parks are Channel Island's Death Valley, Joshua Tree, King's Canyon, lastin Volcanic Pinnacles, Redwood Sequoia, and Semity. You know, uh, a little bit of constructive feedback for you. Okay, I'm ready your You knocked it out of the park on the first tidbit, like the post question tidbit, the second no one wants to hear a list of nine things. I disagree. The second tidbit I thought was horrible. Okay, it's going forward. Too much information, Yeah, going forward. The first tidbit was wonderful, but it's already constrict, like you can get list nine things to somebody. Look at look at what happened in the competition side of things though, right we were like had a strong heat going and all of a sudden, now we have a clear front runner. Two rounds like that. That's a mark of a good game. The tidbit was specifically for criticizing the tidbit, and I would like the first tidbits at a real bar. I'm rounding out your compliments. And hey, at least he didn't slow down the podcast or anything with that and keep us from question three. Ready ready, I just like the point out that Karen is also playing and she is also two for two. Have a whiteboard, so I don't trust what she says. I like it, Philip fact checker, I'm gonna do a scoreboard update. That's very unnecessary. Where Steve has zero correct and the only person in the room was zero, we're just getting started. Question three, the topic is biology. What is the term for when there is a distinct difference in size or appearance between males and females of the same species. I'll give you some examples. A female soft shell turtle grows about twice as big as a male soft shell turtle. A mule deer buck has antlers, well, a mule deer dough does not. These are examples of what biological term. It's basically, did you listen to the last episode of the Mediator podcast? Was this talked about? Then we're talked about. We've talked about how Neanderthals don't seem to have exhibited it and at low levels ospreys are extreme. Okay, does everyone have it written down? I don't know. I saze sports, so I can't. I can't. Just sorry. The correct answer, as most folks in the room macrofructations. The correct answer is what karine? That is ratual. That's hot. Who got I read that? Not only do you do? It seems like from the sculpt remains do Neanderthals did not have as extreme a form of sexual dimorphism is hominids or not? They were hominids as Homo sapien, but they a Their skeletal remains exhibit the same suites of injuries from what anthropologists call a confrontational style of hunting, and that it seems that the women were mixing it up with the men in big game hunting, a suite of injuries that is reminiscent of what you see on professional bull riders. They noted, it's a good book. I read all that out of Okay, all right, now we have Korean pitching a perfect game. That's the tidbit, three for three. Yeah, but she's disqualified because Brodie, did you get that one or not? It's only an honorable man. Caught up Phil Question four's fishing. The fifty one bass Master Classic, which is the super Bowl Bass Fishing, just wrapped up in June. The annual tournament features some of the world's most famous anglers on some of America's premier bass lakes and rivers. You need to name one body of water the bass Master Classic has been held on. Has been held on, Yes, any of the fifty one events. You need to name one of those lakes or rivers or impoundments that the Classic has been held on. Have to spell it right. No, I'm right there. I think we're writing down the same lakes down. This is gonna take me a minute to check all of your answers, because you have about forty options. The lake is or the the the tournament has been held on some some duplicates at some point, so you have to bear with us. We reveal on I see Garrett still writing Lake macro Fructation. All right, Steve, you go first. What do we got oka chobe Um? I don't. I don't know if that's one of them because you sheld it so wrong. I can't. Did you write it this way? Steve? Yeah, lake of Lake of Florida Lake. Oh oh, he's got the same answer, but he probably spelled about kay. I do not I do not seek cho beyond you, Tucker, what is your answer? I'm sorry? How do you spell the nar? Think it's l A and I E R in Georgia. That is not one of them. Come on, I don't think. I think you're like, I don't even want to show, but I don't. I don't even know if there's bass Lake Michigan is correct, I don't even here. Two thousand they held the Bass Master Classic on Lake Michigan. That Wood Davies one with twenty seven pounds. Seth, what do you got like? Fork? He likes bass tournaments. That is not one of the lakes. Really really, what is this? I know, I know, I know for a fact Lake Fork was on a stop on the series this year, not the Master Classics, the class So what is like? What fake answer? I had three question marks? So Garrett the person who have you caught bass? Like? Right? Have you caught bass before? Yeah? I do it quite a lot around here? Yeah, get at it is the one person got it right? Yeah, fly Rod. Mainly he's lying, like I know this year it was held in Florida, but I forget the body of water name or not Florida, Texas. It was in Texas. Oh, I know what like? But I don't Ray Roberts. Roberts, I couldn't think of it. Okay, you got a tidbit or no, that's it. No, I think part of your signature deal should be a little tidbit. Yeah. Well the tidbit was telling Garrett that it was held in two thousand and in Wade Davies won it with twenty seven pounds. Alright. Question five, we no longer have a perfect game from Karan. The topic is biology. What is the color of spider blood? Spencer? That's it, that's the whole question. What is the color of spider blood? Is it different? You probably can't give me a hint. Is it different inside and outside the body? Yeah? Because right exactly. I was just thinking that exact same, because I mean, who hasn't squashed a spider? Moved to disqualified? That's it? I like the way you think. That's very smart. What is the color of spider blood? Does everyone have an answer? Oh? No, I'm changing mind because you're not going to answer that. I thought I'm not very relevant question. I can answer anything. This could be an overthinking underthinking situation. I don't know. So what are you doing? You reveal your answers. The correct answer is blue? Which who got it? Cal? Got it blue? Steve? No? I know? Is that only Cal on that one? It is because it is because check He's gonna go over to the corner of the room and fact check their blood has an atom of copper instead of iron. Like most animals. They share this trait with snails and OCTOPI that was a good tidbit, Thank you, very good tidbit. Okay, I got a half time round up here. We have Karin and Cal tied for first with three, Brody Garrett tied for second, oh, and Tucker tied for second, and then we've got Steven Seth around it out last with one. These are hard, dude, I'm so depressed now. Out of all the hot tips that we're getting out of these, I'm thinking Wade Davies and the weight of the bass is probably the one that's gonna come in least handy. Yeah, yeah, Question six, back to the topic of conservation. Before becoming president, Teddy Roosevelt had held titles such as Minority Leader of the State Assembly, President of the Police Commissioners, and governor in what state? Teddy Roosevelt titles such as Minority Leader of the State Assembly, President of the Police Commissioners, and governor in what state? We have very confident, Tucker Carlson that so far's from How about this heat, Teddy Roosevelt introduced what caliber of side arm to the police department that he oversaw. Yes, Spencer, I don't know. Spencer's got zero. And he did it so they would kill fewer criminals. True story. That's a good tidbit. Good tidbit. Does everyone have an answer? Yeah, but I don't like mine. Reveal your answers. The correct answer is New York, which everybody but Garrett. Everybody but Garrett. What did you put down Garrett, North Dakota. I didn't put down Montana, Rhode Island. Why. It just seemed like geographically like an east somewhere. It's like just in the east. We have a fun article on the media dot com talking about Teddy how during when he while he held those roles, he really loved boxing, and there was a moment where he got hit so hard by an intern that it made him blind in one eye, and then he kept doing it all the way through the White House. But somebody told them that it was like unbecoming of a president to be walking around with black eyes and cuts on his face, and so he gave it up for a little bit. M hm. Question seven, we are on public lands. What is the deepest lake in America. What is the deepest lake in America? I saw some fast writing so far. I see some erasing as well, man made. I see no writing by Steve made so far. Come man made. I'm not going to give a hint. Oh, I see a third round of writing from Cal once a hundred dollar donations in Oregon. I am not giving any hints. I see everybody ready, but Steve, I honestly don't have an answer. Just come up with an answer that's not superior about write that down al right? Everybody reveals your answer the correct I was trying to think of though, So who got it right? We had Set and Brody and Cal, Garrett Tucker. No, I got it wrong, but I knew, but I knew the answer. It is located in Oregon. You see what I'm saying, And it is point five Yeah, it is one thousand ninety nine ft deep. And while it is the deepest lake in the USA, it is not the deepest lake in North America. That title is held by the Great Slave Lake in the Northwest Territories of Canada. That lake is two thousand ten ft deep, about sixty ft deeper than Crater Lake. You fish that one yet, Tucker small, it's small mouth. It's gotta be like gin clear right, yeah, no, no, I was there in bad weather. So tons of shoreline looks awesome. Yeah, m hm cool lag to creep on X for no reason. Alright, we're onto question eight. How many are There's ten questions, so we're coming off with the end. One of the most googled fire question is what is better between the two seventy Winchester in the thirty odds six Springfield. We aimed at answering this question in a recent article in media dot Com called caliber Battle to seventy Winchester versus thirty odds six Springfield. If you want that answer, you're gonna have to go to the media dot com to see the winner. George Stillers did a great job of breaking down the two cartridges and declaring a winner. I'm not gonna tell you who it was your interview that no, ok. Your question is what does the odds six stand for? In the name thirty odds six Springfield? We have a confidence, Steve, and a confidence ordinarily confident, confident, cal confident everybody but Garrett, who is our gun guy. Don't call him the gun guy. He's a he's a competing he's a competit. He's a competitive shooter, he's a solving. His garage floor is clean. He's got that deep pile rug in his garage, not a drop on it. So, but before you get the answer, what was the answer to the predicate question, like what is superior? I can't can't to drive traffic. You need to go to the media dot com traffic because it's a newer cartridge. You need to go to the media dot com and read Jordan Stiller's article from July one. Yeah, it's like it's subjective but grounded. He does as good as job of breaking the two down. Is anybody just? But the ultimate thing is subjective? Yes, yet grounded. Yes, this question is not subjective. Everyone reveals your answers. The answer is the odd six refers to nineteen o six, the year the cartridge was adopted. I think we should give it the south who wrote year made Yeah, for sure, everybody got it? Oh no, no, I wrote, what did you write? I wrote, oh yeah, Oh man, I'm embarrassed admit this. I wrote zero six Because the way you format of your question, you said, what is odd six? Stand for the thirty? I thought you were trying to be tricky there with your last statement. The thirty refers to the caliber of the bullet in inches, while the old six stands for nineteen or six, the year the cartridge was adopted. That was question eight. We're on the question nine. What is the score? Phil? We have cal with six points in first place, really, followed closely by Brody with five, Tucker with four, and then Karin with and Steve with three. Oh, set Scott four as well? Did I say that? And Garrett has too? Beforehand? I thought it were taken six to win this and we have two questions left, so you guys are on a good pace. I'm I've gone from wanting to win to just not wanting to be last place, which is the mark of a good game. We got condition question nine the categories wildlife management. The two most common types of tracking collars that biologists use on animals are GPS and v h F. GPS, of course, stands for Global Positioning System. What does v h F stand for? Oh, that's a good one. It is a good one. The two primary times GPS and VHF. GPS is Global positioning system. What does v h F stand for? V is in venus. This is the hardest I've seen in the room think yet, because it's knowable. Yeah, it's like I think it feels like one of those things you should not right, m cal the front runners thinking especially hard. Those brows are very furrowed. I've strapped these onto animals, and so it's killing me that I don't confident. Does everyone have an answer? Reveal your answers. I'm not seeing correct. I think that's right right, Very high frequency that is correct. High frequency that is right, very high high frequency as you can get right, They're like, how high, very high, very high. Tucker is the only one that got that one right. VHF colors work by sending out a radio signal that allows biologist to physically locate the animal by using a receiver and directional antenna. They only cost about three hundred fifty dollars, while a GPS collar can cost anywhere from eight hundred to three Thank you, very high frequency, very high frequency. There were some close answers. I saw a few of you had like the very some people had the frequencies. Uh, Tucker was the only one to put it all together there. You can't buy him right now, No, I imagine, I don't know. I just got a couple of new dogs and I want callers from me, and there you can't get them. Run the last question, Phil, is it close? Uh? Well, the only way Cal can. Cal can't lose, but he can tie for first. Have a tiebreaker. We need to go to America. We don't tie Phil soccer stuff. There you go. I I like to Cal has six, Brody and you did that, Brody and don't like Yeah, I don't like just drag people through the dirt, Brody and Tucker. I tied for second and Seth is in third with four. Yeah. Like you know when the Olympus are coming up and they get to like gold right, they don't go like gold browns and they keep going, oh yeah the last place person. To remind everyone just let's focus on the winners. Let's focus on the lot of bitterness in this room. That focus on question ten. The topic is white tails. The most popular state mammal is the white tailed deer. In fact, there are twelve states that recognize the white tail as their state mammal. Name one of them really twelve states name one of the states that recognize the white tail as their official state mammal. This is for all the marbles, and I don't see cal looking confident. It ain't Arizona, Garrett, don't put Arizona. Oh, I don't know what I'm gonna do. I have to keep people up to speed on what I'm thinking. Does everybody have an answer? Reveal your answers. I will list off the correct answers. You can tell us if you're right, Wisconsin, South Carolina, Pennsylvania, Oklahoma, Ohio, new hand, sure, Nebraska, Mississippi, Michigan, Steve, Illinois, Georgia, and Arkansas. You put a very logical answer though, but of course it's the steer right. So we had we had everybody get it right except Tucker and cow Okay, I missed. I said Louisiana, okay, which I don't know what the state mammal for Louisiana would be. So in our first ever time playing trivia, we were going to a tiebreaker. They both got what seven correct? Six? Six? Okay, So I'm out while you kind of fell behind. Are you kind of choked? Yeah? I missed the last two. Yeah, okay. You all can participate in the tiebreaker, but the only answers that matter are Brody and cow your question is in the number of days, how long is the gestation period of an ELK thesis? Will be the winner. Oh, this goes very well into our heated conversation last there's there's a good play on words right there, Steve. Steve. Steve filled the audience in and what the conversation was last night between Callum Brody while they got so bad. We were out celebrating the launch of meetings, camp Fire Stories, Close Calls, and we were celebrating the launch at a restaurant, and so everybody that was involved in that project was there, and Calum Brody got into a fight so bad that made other people at the table uncomfortable. The number of days those people get uncomfortable around people anyway, a little bit hard to track. It had to do with that Montana now has a Montana now has a primitive. They now have a flint lock season, which will be tacked on to the end of the general season. Brody, are you one of those folks that knows that how many days in each month? Because I just kind of gassed well, I guess too, all right, right, the correct answer by still in the two seventy caliber, the correct He's seventy kis coming in my mind. It's two by the winner with the answer of two seventy. That number comes from the Rocky Mountain ELK Foundation. So take it up with them, cal who was very wrong. I'm your skills is what failed there? You have an art in June. They get inseminated in September. Cali, you could have made an argument that I went over. No, no, no, you know, like a lot of stuff, you can do it like prices going over. Yeah, yeah, price is right doing. But he didn't say that. Well done, Brody. Yeah, now body tell us who you're going to donate your one dollars too. No, let's keep in the family and do TRCP all right, Uh soccer Carlson, Um, you're here to go fishing, I am. And you live in Maine. Yep, tell us about that, about how Maine you're you're explaining Maine kind of drives up as if fishing matter. Yeah. So we live in the Western Mountains in Maine, at the top of the Appalachian Chain in the United States, and um, really pretty area, great fishing, biggest brook trout in the United States. Been there my whole life, and we have landlocked salmon too throughout the watershed and they're great, great little game fish, and but it gets hot and so um we have a lot of still water fishing, a lot of lake fishing. I fly fish, So that's a problem because obviously, you know, casting lead cores, it loses. It's a p you like being a moving water for sure. I fish rivers mostly. There's about a maybe three week period where I live on a lake where we get um rising trout and salmon, and you know, you just kill it for that period. But you know, stripping scuds on sinking line just I'm not that into it. So but anyway, as the summer gets warm, what I always come out west to the state to fish every you know, every year without fail. And I have a lot of kids, and how many kids you got for and you got a kid coming out to fish with it, and so various kids will meet me out here and we're just get in the truck and drive around and stay motels and fish. What are the age ranges. My oldest is twenty six, second is twenty four. It was a outstanding fly caster, like one of the best. Is just a natural and a really good shot. My third is two and my fourth is eighteen, and they're all into the outdoors. Were raised that way, and but they have varying degrees of enthusiasm for fly fishing. Two out of four earlier are into it. It's pretty good. I mean, considering you know how difficult it is to get a kid to learn to cast a fly rod? Is very difficult. And were you saying you just recently turned fifty. I'm fifty two. It's really old. But my my son, who's a who's a really superior fly caster, much better than I am. Um, you know, you have to make them. You have to make them, so you start them on spinning rods obviously, you know, throwing the daredevil on a whatever big castor spinning rod or whatever. And then at about when he was nine, I just switched him over to and eight waite because it's just easier to load it. And uh, he really hated it like a lot because his catch rate went to zero. And I was just a complete fashion coming after throwing spinners. Yeah, if you're throwing a daredevil in the Andreskoggin River like you're going to hook up for sure. Well, I started all my kids on nightcrawlers. Yeah. Well I never I never because that's in moral So I didn't do that. But but no bait fishing. But anyway, but I made him take up the fly. Rodney deeply resented it. And I've had a pretty lazy, fair attitude with my kids about most things. You know, you get to choose your political beliefs or what you know. It's not into forcing my beliefs and my kids except for a couple of things. And one of the most evening you have to be able to competently cast and this one kid, it sounds well because no one else is going to teach him, you know what I mean, that's like your duty as a father, and you gotta you know, I like wing shooting, so that too. But anyway, this one kid really hated it and stared at me in this resentful, almost edible way like I want to I want to kill you. And but I kept at it, and it was it was such a great victory because he really became talented and learned to love it. So I fished with him a lot. And but now I'm fishing with one of my girls. Are you're you're in Maine? You have a camp, right? We have a kid? How do you know that? Because that's like so main culture. You go out for a paddle and you go to the camp. Yeah, every every house in May in the woods as a camp. And then we we have a camp which is our family house where we grew up, and then we have a fishing We have another camp which is off grid, just two cabins on a river, and that's the fishing camp. That's the fishing camp. So we fish at boat at both. But we have a like fully you know, no electricity or running water place, which is great. And your kids like going to the camp. They're obsessed. Yeah, they love it. Yeah, because i mean, you know, you can we shoot a lot and you know, you can shoot off the porch and swim in the river and the fishing for a couple of months is pretty great. It it turns up again in September. We're mostly for brook trout, and the brook trout really don't let any water over seventy there's not into it at all, so they find the springs so they just kind of disappear. But they come back in September. So you know, most of August is shooting heavy on the Tanna, right, you know, three awight into Tanna right that that that's how we clear the wood. And the forest in Maine is very different from the forest out here, and it's like a rainforest. That's a move. We get so much precipitation, and you know, white pines dominate, of course at the whole point of Maine is the eastern white pine. But we get a ton of spruce and fur and seed during a lot of other things, but mostly spruce and for just like just pop up like you know, like five o'clock shadow. They're just everywhere. So you know, there's a lot of a lot, but there's you know, you have to cut basically if it's your land, and so we try to use tanna right to do that because it's just so much more fun. That's how you shop them down. Well, no, I mean, we we use chainsaws typically, but tanna right is fun. You know. Uh, did you guys see that the you know, the story of the couple that had a gender reveal party for a baby, burn the burn the forest down. I just saw it. Just I saw in the news this morning that they were there being charged for the death of a firefighter. Fire thirty felonies or something. They got charged with. It was some it was some ridiculous number like that. It's pretty hard to set the forest in Maine on fire. It's really wet. Yeah, like a pig shows upside. It's a it's a little more like Oregon than it is Monte. And this is this is North North, like the big Northwood. This is western Maine, which is the mountainous part of Maine. So a lot of Maine, actually northern Maine is flat. Coastal Maine is rocky and really don't have that many evergreens um the mountains of western Maine, so sort of maybe two hours above Portland, and then it's all paper company land up to the Canadian border. That's less like pond swamp country more well, there's all over Maine, which is like the downside that an insane amount of water, insane amount of water and insane amount of swamps. And you know, depending on the year, the ticks are just ridiculous and you have to be happy, you know, comfortable with mosquitoes and black flights, which I am. I've just totally zend out and I don't even care. Um, but the ticks some years are really bad. In fact, it was last year the estimate was we lost half of all yearling moose to blood loss from ticks. Kid, Oh, it's into, it's real. It's totally intense this year. I mean I'm in the woods every day and six eight ticks, and I mean I haven't worn shorts a single day. I got to Maine on June tenth. I haven't worn shorts a single day because not one what is don't wear shorts and Maine because that's like you don't do that? And I still get six or eight ticks every day. The mortality on that moose study, uh, they were averaging a little over forty seven thousand ticks on each calf moves. Which ever seen it? I have not seen it in person, but it's over twenty pounds of ticks. You can imagine that. It's so well, I mean, it's disgusting obviously, like beyond it's like the most repulsive thing you've ever seen, but it's also just a tragedy. You see it and you just feel so sorry. Moose are a big thing where we live. I hit one two years ago, totally destroyed my truck. I hit a bull moose going seventy and just total to full size silverado on them. So they're kind of a threat. They killed dogs moose for that like the only thing in the main woods that will hurt you. So you kind of have ambivalent feelings about moose, but when you see the ticks on them, you really have sympathy because it's just and that's why they're in the swamps all day. You know, they're missing huge patches of fur, and the clusters of ticks are just like, never see anything like it. Tixer sizes your thumb. Thousands of them just gorge with blood gorged the poor animals. You know, is it widely known that you uh produce that you like, do your show from not Manhattan. I don't know that it is. Um. I had a remember being really when I found that out. I didn't know you could pull that off. Oh yeah, and it's it's gotta be people who are like, well, I'm gonna do that too, when people should. I mean, you know, some people really like cities. I I emphatically don't. I don't see the upside. I really strong feelings about it. I try to express them because there are a lot of great people who live in cities and I don't want to alienate them. It's like golf. I don't know I don't golf, but I don't attack golf. I don't know, it's not in my heart. I do, but I don't. I don't say that out loud. Um, So I'm not you know, I'm not attacking cities, but I just I don't care to live that at all. And I'm sure he's a nice person. It seems like a nice person. Oh you know, uh, you know, I was gonna ask you about see that, show him, show him your arm, Spencer. Spencer got this listening tree. Now, he could have planted a thousand trees for what it cost him to get that tree. Like trees, Yeah, I was gonna ask you have tattoos. We're gonna argue about tattoos lately. I'm not gonna answer that question. Let me just say I was in Jacksonville seven drunk and I did wind up with a couple and did Yeah. I mean it was the eighties and I drank a lot. I no longer drank or go to Jacksonville, So I'm fine now. But I do love trees, and I and I love that. And then you spend part of your year working out of Florida, so you'd pack up the whole operation everybody goes with you. Yeah, yeah, do they look forward to that part of the year. Yeah, we we live I mean, I really care about the outdoors, and so I'm here and uh and so yeah, we live on the west coast of Florida, UM on one of the Barrier Islands, where you know, tarpin fishing is a is kind of the center of the It's the reason, it's the reason the town is. End of that. Yeah, I like tarping, Honestly, I don't. I like tarpin fishing. I live in like the world's capital tarpin fishing, But I really like snooking and redfish stuck mostly so all winter I fish for snook on a fly, and you know, you can catch one stock after the other in the mangroves, but to catch up forty and snook on the fly is definitely something you need to dedicate yours to doing. It's actually think it's actually harder than tarpin fishing. Tarpin fishing on a fly is heavily luck related, So I I do think that. I mean, it's just if you tried on a fly for tarpins, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you pulled it off, haven't you. Oh? Yeah, no, I've got I've got a handful. But it is I think I knew you win. Uh, Like you know my my buddies that are guides and do it all the time, like they definitely have this. Oh it happens or it doesn't, and there's no more thought. You have to be able to get the fly to them. It's very quick reaction. It's not casting, obviously to trout or even to snook where you know you're safe fish and you're thinking, okay, lead him. That's it's just a pure reaction. I fish with actually a one piece nine weight because I don't like nice thing. The big The one piece don't blow up, and that's why I do it, so I use a lighter rod for it. Explain me when you say blow up, well your rottle shatter. Oh you mean blow up like break well there's a big fish. Yeah. Have you have you got one of those mako reels? No, I those things are And it's so funny. I called one tarpin this spring because I go to main pretty early, so tarpin season where I live starts, well, it kind of depends on the year. Last year it started, I caught a tarpet in March. This year, it was a little bit later, maybe mid April, and I fished throughout April and early May, and my last day in Florida, I caught a tarp in my first cast, maybe d and twenty pound tarpin and my rod my son was using my rut so was. I borrowed a friend's rod and the reel was broken, and it it just I mean, I mean, they just well, you know, you've caught him. You know, it's it's almost a chore to catch him. You well, that's why people snap them off. It's like, oh, I caught the tarping, great, good for me, but you don't want to actually get into the boat because it's really intense. But this thing took off and the real hit my thumb and I couldn't use my hand. It was it was absolutely awful. So that's like the one kind of fishing. I fish a lot of fish every day, and that's the only kind of fishing where I think the real matters. I mean, even with snook, and I never put a fish on the reel ever. Yeah, I mean, I've seen people take more time to land a trout fly fishing trying to get it on the reel and mess around. And I've seen I've seen like pro tarpan people land tarpan with proper rod mechanics, proper real mechanics in less time than i've seen sloppy trout fishing. Its totally right, and it's like someone who's great. The guy I fished with Austin Ladder is actually from Montana can. I mean he can muscle a hundred and kind of tarp into the boat in like six minutes. But for a normal person like me who fishes a lot, but it is not a guide. I mean take twenty five minutes to get the fish to the boat. And Latin fact, last year I cut a fish that was big enough and it was a nasty enough fight that I actually took a nap in the boat. That's how old. I mean, it just it just wore me right out. That's awesome. Hey, what's what? How does snook fishing work? Snook fishing is like, how do you guys go about it? You just get out into flats boat. Actually, I do what I like to fish on foot for trout to I really don't like fishing from a boat. I never do float trips for example. I just I'm not into it. I'm not into Bobbera fishing in general, but I like to walk and I like it some nice long drift though, man, you do. To be honest, my snobbery is based on my lack of skill. So my son actually does a lot of indicator fishing, and he's like, you're an idiot for trout. I do a lot of swinging wet flies. I tied a lot, and I tie for myself and my son and a couple of other people. So I've got all these like super strong theories about trout fly. I don't know if I'm a purist. I love to tie flies and I always have, and I love wet flies and I love main featherweg streamers are the two things really that I spend most time time anyway. Whatever, So that anyone you know who ties, just asking what you tie affects how you fish. So if you're like super into tying hoppers, you know you're you're throwing hoppers early season, even when they're on the hoppers, because you tied it, and you've like spend on when I'm thinking about how the fish are reacting. Oh ship, it's purple this year or whatever. You know, what I mean. So like anyway, I don't do a lot of bobber fishing. I mostly do walk up fishing. I just like walking along rivers and streams um so for snook. You know, you get out. We have a lot of mangrove islands where we live, so I just get out. I always wait barefoot. There's really nothing that will. You know, if you're sort of awake, you're not going to step on a ray. You're fine. And and I try to, you know, you see the snook and then you try and fishing, you're like stalking along the edges of mangrove violence Oh yeah, looking for the awake or absolutely. And it's skinny water, very very I mean, I have a flats boat I have which actually sank tarping my son's. I bought a Hell's bay and I'm cheap, so I bought an old one and I had a bait well. Now why a Hell's bay would have a bait well, since I've never heard of someone using a Hell's bait of bait fish, But whatever, it had a bait well in it, and the valve in the bait well was bad, and the boat literally sank the second week of May off an island in Sherlotta Harbor as we were fishing with my son in it, and it cost me a huge amount of money to get it back. Have you done that? You buy insurance for it, which I never do because I know you can't. It can be legally dicey to walk away from dude. By the insurance, I think it's fifty bucks a year. It was like six thousand dollars to get the boat towed back to the marina. It was insane. It was insane. I'm still mad about it, but whatever. Anyway, the point is, um, I like to fish on foot very very much, and I do think your catch raate goes down. I mean, obviously, the most efficient way to fish just to have someone pull you stand on the platform at the front, hold your fly, you know, wait to see the fish draw it across his nose, you know whatever. But I fished by myself a lot, so I'm happy to catch fewer at this age. I mean, I'm so freaking old that I'm happy, and I've caught a lot of fish. I'm I'm happy to catch fewer fish, but be more fully immersed in and is the is the mark the over forty inches it is for me. I mean, you know, anyone who fishes a lot winds up in your head kind of and so in my head is like, holy shit, that's a snook and and a forty and stuff for some rea snooker one of those weird fish where I think to get to that size there's just like four standard deviations of intelligence higher. So it's pretty easy to fool like ay in snook, just one after the other after the other, if you can, you know, I I tie a and Enrico Pagliazi baitfish that I think is pretty compelling to snook. So um, I feel like I can do pretty well. But to catch a forty two foolist smoke that big, he's just been duped too many times, I think so, and I think and I just think it's just hard to get that big. And I just know from my catch rate, I've caught very few, like five in my life. And I fished a lot in the same place. That's the other thing. I fish in the same places, so I know that I know the places pretty well. You know, at a certain point you kind of know the water. And um, I've cut very few stoked that big. So I think that's the most exciting. I love tailing red fish. We've got some environmental problems where I live with the red tide, and I think it's really affected the red fish a lot. It's very upsetting. That's how to do with how they're draining water off a job, right, I think the golf courses. I mean, it's like, there are a lot of theories about it. I mean, I could bore you for hours. I won't, but there are a lot of theories on it. I've actually got so upset about. We did a couple of shows on it on Fox. I'm not sure anyone was interested except me, but um, I am interested in to use your platform. What are quality matters? Like? All that can always an environmentalist really really well, then why aren't you upset about the water quality in South Florida? Like and why is this happening? Is is it? It's clearly it's phosphates from development and golf courses. It's the cutting of the mangroves along the Army Corps dicking with the drainage. You know, it's often the arm and no offense. And I'm not against the Army Corps, and I think they do you know, good stuff in a lot of places, but boy, they they use blunt instruments. We had someone on the show that did We had someone on the show we recorded in Florida. Wish I wish we could find that episode. It was someone who's like they took a memory, had them on. They did have like a historic approach on it got into that big flood in the twenties that killed everybody, and and then everybody's like, Okay, so that's not gonna happen again, and then like overcorrected and that's exactly what that's And that's exactly right. And you know, the Army Corps job is not to make certain the water quality is good enough to sustain a robust fishery. That's kind of not what they're thinking that It was like, you know, hundreds of people got killed. That's exactly right. And Florida has a lot of water related drama. There's just a lot of water in Florida. That's complex. But you know, I've seen him do this a couple of times. There was a hurricane up in northern New England where we live, maybe fifteen years ago. I can't I can't really remember about fifteen years ago. And they had massive flooding in Vermont, and Vermont had all these you know, pretty blue lines of small board trout streams that are just and I like small stream fishing very much. You know, you get your came three weight and go, you know what I mean, like throw for Brookies and the Army corpsyman and basically paved all the streams. I'm overstating that slightly, but they they're just like, well, we have a problem with these streams are flooding the towns, and we're just going to take all the obstructions out what so that you know, you you bring earth moving equipment into a into a stream really and flatten it out, because thank you, that's exactly right. So really I'm not attacking them. I think there's probably a lot of good people the Army corp of engineers, but they're they're not thinking about the effects on on the fishery and that was distressing their task with the town floods, their engineers and but you just have to And by the way, I'm not I'm probably a little more on the Ted Kazinski side if the equation actually when it comes to development, actually a lot more of him being totally honest Montana guy. For a while he was a Montana guy and and obviously a bad person and kill people, and I'm totally opposed to that. But also, you know, not a stupid person at all, and a and a very deep person and an interesting person with a lot of anyway whatever, don't keep me going. But um, but I think you know, people have a right to have houses, and people want to live in pretty places, and you can't stop all development. You should stop all strip malls and dollar stores obviously, but you can't stop all development. And people want to golf. I get it. So you've got competing imperatives and desires and it's a country three million people. It can't just be about you know, fifty two year old fly fisherman. Okay, I get it. On the other hand, like the views of fifty two five fisherman should all should be represented. I think they should be. We should have Spencer on sometime just to talk about why he likes a golf golfing segment. Oh, I think that's was that episode one oh seven Saving the Evergladesh ever? Was that name of the show. Yeah, they did, they didn't. I thought they did a very good job. We had a couple of people various subjects, Kelly Ralston, Matt Cook, you and Yanni and Fort Lauderdale. That's correct, Okay, Saving the Everglades episode one of seven. Uh did you learn? Did you? Uh? Your dad got you started in fishing? Yeah, because his dad into it. Uh No, Actually, my father was an orphan who spent his early life in an orphanage. So no, wait really yeah, yeah, the home for little wanderers in real name. How what happened? How'd that go down? Well? He actually found out later his mother was just really really young, mid teens, and um, she was the Swedish girl, and she got pregnant and and so her parents made her put the baby up for adoption and wound up in this orphanage. So he grew up in foster homes, an orphanage, then ultimately was adopted. Your kid. You know, have you read your your dad's Wikipedia page? I've never read Wikipedia, saying I don't read a single word about myself for my family, not one time. Okay, the what you're saying like lines up with that page. But my impression of reading that was like this is out of a movie, like it it's a it's a tragic Wikipedia. Yeah, it's a it's a tragic to hate that. The violation suprivacy are just like to extreme. You know, you're a public figure, I know, but my family has nothing to do with it. I had kind of this lunit to your dad's a historical personal My dad's a great a great man, and a and a and like a real outdoorsman and a really avid wing shooter and and and a great guy. And but he was very intense about camping in the woods and you know, bird hunting and dogs especially, always had always had bird dogs, a lot of them, and highly intense about it. So how did he because that was that that wanted to being a result of his adoptive family. Honestly, I don't really know, because like the things that are closest to you know, the least about actually, but I think when he was little, somebody brought him to a Y m C. A camp in Maine, and that had a huge effect. So then you know, he left high school, joined the Marine Corps. You know, didn't have credentials, but he's very smart. So he went up in journalism because they'll take anybody, and became a fairly prominent and successful reporter. At the l A Times in ABC News in California. So we lived in California. I grew up in California and southern California, and but we had this camp in Maine because he was he really felt it was important to eat beans and be cold and from New England, and so we would spend the summers. We go from Lajoya, California, which has got to be one of the richest zip codes in the world. It's all in the beach and everyone serfs and everyone's mom like smokes weed at the breakfast table too, And then we'd spend the summer in this beautiful but totally impoverished milltown where they made clothes pins, no exaggeration, that was the town business. They had a closed pin factory which around a business or night and there was never kind of any employment since. And we've been in that town our whole lives and it's just beautiful and they're great people, but it's very much a sporting culture. I mean, that's what without getting boring in one sentence. So Maine after the Civil War, Maine was an agricultural state. The Civil War happens, you know, every other man in the entire state joins the Union Army. I think that the highest enlistment rate of any state. They leave Maine for the first time and realized, wait a second, you can farm in places where there aren't granite boulders every four feet and the growing season is longer than six weeks. So every moved to Ohio. So Maine had I think ten million acres under cultivation in eighteen sixty. It now has a million acres. So the state went from like, yes, it went from being a state of farms to a state of of timberland, of paper company land. So it was bought up by the Pingree family of Massachusetts and a couple of others, and the majority of the state to this day is owned by Timber Holding Company. So in exchange for owning the majority of the state and there's very little public land and Maine, the paper company struck this deal where if you live in Maine you can use paper company land. There's no sense of It's the opposite of Montana and Wyoming, where you get shot for going on someone's land, especially Wyoming. In Maine, you can walk on to the land. It's like there's an expectation I can just hunt on your land. I can fish on your land, I can camp on your land. The only thing I can't do is cut the trees. So it's the state, but it's it creates such an interesting culture because you have a state full of, like by national standards, very poor people who have amazing sporting opportunities for hunting and fishing, and we have this incredible They reintroduced turkeys into Maine and they just went crazy. Obviously moose and deer. Where I lived, tons of bears, lots. I saw a bear on my property last week. I thought it was I thought it was a man. It was, so it was black bears, huge bears. And then we have trout and salmon, and then in the fall ruffle grouse, which and woodcock ruffle grouse and Maine are called partridge for some reason. Yeah I grew up when when I grew up, they would no one calls them grouse, but they are. But they were called pats patridge. Yeah, that spelled a A R. So you're just like, you know, if you're working part time in the woods, you know, cutting for the paper mill, or you work at the dollar store, you know, you don't have any money, but I mean, you really have a lot of opportunity in a way that they don't have out west. Obviously there's better fishing in some ways, there's better hunting out west, but the access in Maine is just incredible for normal people, and it creates a really interesting culture where or you know, people who work at the middle fly fish. So like in the state of New York, for example, you know a lot of other places Connecticut, the only people who fly fish are people who are rich, you know. But in Maine, like poor people fly fish and then tie their own flies, and it's just it's a really neat it's a really neat sporting culture. I think Karan sent us a article um from years ago where there was a thing in the Hollywood Reporter about some guy that decided you were fishing in Central Park. Yes, I was, and a guy was decided to make like a started to film you. Yeah, and you had to explain to him that I had this gig where I worked in New York on the weekends. So I would never obviously live in New York because that's soul destroying, but I had a job there on the weekend, so I would go into New York and stay in a hotel for two nights by myself, which is just like hell, Well you're on the roddle out, you know, it's hell. And I just had to get outside of with like driving me freaking crazy. I can't, you know what I mean. So I would walk up to Central Park with my eight weight and try and catch bass in the park. Do you see a lot of people fishing there? No, I've never seen a fly right there. So I would do it every weekend I get off work. I hosted a morning show and then I'd walk up to the park and cast my stupid fly rod, just like feel better. And this guy comes up to me. He's filming me, and I thought, I want to hit this. You know, it's such a violation of your privacy fishing please, you know, God, it's like someone filming you having sex. It's like no, no no, no, this is the private realm. Like I'm not I don't want to be seen doing this. And it turned out he worked for Howard Stern and he was fine. He actually later died of a heroin o d weirdly or maybe not so weirdly, but he goes, what are you doing And I said, I'm fly fishing, and he said fly fishing. He thought I meant like house fly. I was fishing with house flies. He goes, where do you catch the flies? And I said, why don't. I was totally confused. But he's from New York, so like he doesn't know, you know, like he understands subway Matt, like he's you know. He said he was an idiot, and I said, no, I don't know. I tied the flage what do you many times? So I showed him my fly box with my stupid, you know, poppers. And at the time, I had this theory about poppers where I was gonna take sheet foam and make the popper out of pieces of sheet foam glued together, rather than like doing him on a drummall tool or whatever. I had this whole theory like I'm gonna create this new kind of popper or whatever, very ugly poppers, but very effective. So I like showed him my box of poppers. He has regular buddies. Actually, I I absolutely hated him, but once he get the camera out, I was like, Okay, don't be a dick trying to be nice and he didn't mean any harm. He was just dumb and you had to show him the poppers, because you never know who your first investor is going to be. My poppers at that point they were awful. It's funny how much mental disk space I've like devoted to dumb question like how to make the perfect phone popper? But actually I'm not bragging. I've perfected it. You take a nail, like a threepenny nail, and you put it in a drama tool and you just slide the foam over it and then you shape it with sandpaper. Well what was it you put the nail on the drumal? Yeah, it makes you basically you're turning your drama into a lathe. I mean it is, you're turning it into it like a tiny little lathe. Um, and you can actually use like a jeweler's lathe for it. But this is just way easier, and you can. It's crazy what you can? I mean, do you have a fish with poppers? I have. I don't do a ton of fly fish, to be frank, but I have for sure. You can get really carried away with it. It's crazy. Um, So I I obviously I need help, um, but I think the more do you tie hundreds of flies every year? Oh? Yeah, a lot of flies. Quick quick popper jump aside here some I'm dying to ask you anyway. Uh, you're year old man had a year long stant as the ambassador to the say Schelles. Yeah, did you get to go to one of the saddest things that ever happened? No, So I went to college. That's like the if you're into throwing poppers for giant Travalli fishing, it's like the best in the world. It's it's the destination. That's what I went there for my honey. I went there. We went to all Yeah, we didn't do it right. We went to we went all three major islands. We didn't go to any of the off islands. You know what I mean. We didn't go to like but that I didn't realize at the time. I kind of was half thinking that I would get it, I would throw it in. I don't really, it's to go from to go from the say Sheells to like the outer islands that are famous for fishing. Is about like getting from here to the say Shells. I mean it's like a whole thing, but in like a dangerous plane. Yeah, I mean it's just like it's not you know, just like like go talk to the guy down to the beach and having buzzy out there, you know. I mean it's like a whole different deal. So I've been there but not really had a great time though. Do you think it surprising? Most is um um. I can't remember what happened, but I had to go down and get a prescription for something, and it was like sixty six cents including my doctor's visit for xannex whatever they got going on, whatever they got going on for the medical plan. I think it's highly subsidized by tourists, Like when something happens, they don't charge any money. I get all my cody and coughs are up there. Yeah, like I got like a like an antibiotic or something that I can't remember. And uh, I mean so long ago, it's thirteen years ago, but I do remember. Oh, you know, we didn't talk about seth. What the freaking squirrel hides? Man? Oh, I'm laying here to as a reminder. Do you squirrel hunt a lot? Yeah? Yeah? What do you use? Do you ever tie a fly called a squirrel tail? Is that a fly? Is here? The squirrel hair leeches? There's there's one called the red squirrel nimph, that's a good one. I used red squirrel all My roommate and graduate school would tie flies for money. He would have contracts to sell them, and he would now and then he didn't hunt, but he would now and then accompany me to go out to shoot pine squirrels. And then you take her fur and put in a coffee grinder and make flies with it, make dubbing out of it. Well, actually, pine squirrel, just the pelt is like, it's an amazing leech pattern. I've used that, I've exactly, I've used that a lot. I was use mink, which is totally underrated for mouse patterns. I do a ton of mousing in mid day, by the way, which really they always tell you, oh, mousing is for you know, spring creek at full two in the morning. Bullshit, try it at noon. I'm not no, No, I'm serious. I'm serious. Swing a mouse pattern. I probably shouldn't say it. Just cast across forty five degrees, let it hang down, drag awake behind it. It's insane, what I mean, it's crazy. And you only get about three casts and then it's like they're not taking it. Fine, move on to something else. But I would say, at least fifty percent time mid day, the biggest trout in the pool will be like, holy shit, and you hook up every single time. I've done that all over the world and river in the middle of the night too, totally or waiting through a muckey. I mean, I've done this like Silver Creek or you know and I or whatever. You know, it's like famous for midnight mousing. No mid day. Well, you know we saw that was we'll talk about the squirrels some our times. That beautiful job that it's gonna start a podcast called Squirrel Greefe Podcast. Are you gonna send him in a panther Martin and get your money? No, these are for a different project. Uh, these are for a friend of ours who's a squirrel enthusiast. We're gonna send him a black phase, eastern gray, gray phase, eastern gray. Sure fox squirrel. We're gonna send him the whole he's a squirrel enthusiast, but somehow he doesn't have squirrel hides. So you take the guard hairs out of this and that's like amazing taste stuff. Don't touch that one. Sorry, you can look at it, touch it, but just don't pluck anything for a guy named Guy we had. We had to do a guy named guys up. I did this morning show for four years. We had this guy come on once who like worked at some bald eagle preserve. We have a lot of bald eagles where we live. They eat my troad and so I deeply resent them. But whatever, So he has this bald eagle in the set. They're incredibly nasty animals. I've never seen one up close, but they're really hostile, and I think this is the burden new I didn't like it, and he was like angry at me, and at one point he jumps up and he loses a tail feather, so I snatched up think. I was like, you know, you're not allowed to have that. Only Native Americans can have it. It's a federal okay, right, Okay, got it, So I bring it home. I took it and tied too wet flies out of it to soft tackles, and those were the single most effective for salmon I've ever fished. Bald eagle. We did. I can't here if we had him on, we had award none uh, And we raised that question with them, and he has he had this guy we had had on twice in his career issued citations for what you're talking about. There were egregious examples. The one, he's sitting at a stoplight and the guy next to him has his rear view mirror adorned with raft or feet, so he pulled him over to have a chat. The other one, he's leaving the grocery store and it happens to be walking by a truck and sees that the guy has a like a small truckload of rafter carcasses, and so he waited for him to come out of the grocery store to have asked asked him a few questions, but he said, like, yes, it's true. What those are The two times I was compelled to like follow up, Well, you can't be stupid. Whenever I eat California condor, I grill it indoors because it's just too provocative to put it on the barbecue. What was that? We're on? Squirrels talk about time, all kind of flies? What do you shoot squirrels with? What do you what do you think of it? It does too much damage? Man? But but now I have a game point, like solid point. I do like it, but um, it doesn't I own one and like it. But I fund the emma never got as cheap as they promised it would. You haven't noticed, you should go to the media dot com and read a caliber battle I actually have on caliver. So tell me what this is. I'm not gonna tell you gonna use this to drive traffic. Let me teach you something about media, Tucker, Now we can we could use this here platform to send people to another one of our platforms. Sorry, he's like, you know, indictments were made against two senators and to find out to go to my article see me on TikTok. So we have a caliber ballot's about the twenty two long rival versus the seventeen h m R you can find on the meat eator dock. Seriously, is that even a like? So, what what are the measurements you're using? He uses because I shoot them both. We measure in three categories ballistics, shootability, and versatility and cost. I mean it's you factored in the readily the abundance of two to three in low cost. I read the article. Yes, that's correct. Shootability means more than just like the recoil or the availability of AMMO or an actual word. It is on the Mediator dot com. And you know who's great with this series that we do, Garrett. He is a good resource for our writer Jordan Stillers. Jordan has a question about uh using a twenty two to fifty on a white tailed deer, he will shoot, get an email, and Garrett always has the answer, what do you think of that fifty on a white tail? Uh? I don't know why, Like, sure you can do, but I agree, I completely agree. I completely agree. Two fifties. Are you think it's okay amazing on white tail? Yeah? Yeah, it's It's kind of like the whole argument with like six five three hundreds. You know, how could you hunt in elk with a six five until you've shot an elk with a six five three hundred, and it's very cis. People are like obsessed. I can't handle any more caliber, so I haven't gotten one. But it's like for good reason you're saying you like, yeah, man, they're legal rights, They're just they're moving so fast. When that bullet expands, when it hits, it's very catastrophic. Like it's same like I said, six If you've never shot one one a Weatherby's cartridges, you're shooting elk with one of those and you're it's just like whoa, that's it's way harder than like people are gonna hate this, but like then my win meg kind of relate. Yeah, as far as it comes out of it comes out of the barrel and a thousand feet faster than than your barrel life though, I mean, how many rounds can you put? Like two thousand and then you're done. Yeah, but they make your gun live ab as long as a smoker. It's totally right. But it also has to do with like all that is is heat, right, So it has to do with how you shoot your gun. If you went out with the six fifty and shot you know, a box of Ammo through it, and you just sort of wrapping rounds, then yeah, it's gonna anyway at this point, right, Yeah, well you'd have to be sponsored. It's not too bad. I'm serious. I but I got I mean I shoot a lot, a lot, a lot, and I think about that. In fact, I even got an eight million in mouser because I buy a lot of Kurosa primary ammo because it's super cheap, like you know, Turkish am a Greek ammo from nine forty. It's like I don't give a ship. I'll clean my barrel with Windex. The gun costs four hundred bucks, do you know what I mean? And I can shoot and I actually like the round, but I'm not going to get a six five creed More because really I'm paying or three even three in a blackout I wanted to get. I wanted to get a Supressor in blackout because my friend was one is such a fun gun. So I'm not going to buy that AMMO because it just bums me out. It's every bowling pin that's like I shoot is two dollars or something. No thanks, Yeah, it's just a lot of Yeah, they're popular because they're good. They are good, we're shootability by Tucker Carlson. I'm just saying the cost of AMMO. I was shooting a three way the other day, which I really like. I like mine. I actually have a I see your left handed left hand and butts the only rifle I have a left hand and bolt on it, and I like it. But I'm just thinking, how much is a three weight round? Now? Like? What is it? What does it called? Yeah? Very but I shoot but all my god, all my bolk right hand because that's where they all come from. I was in my thirties before I had one, and I couldn't get used to it. I initially didn't like it when I got a left hand bolt. Do you know why I bought my I've only had one, it's my three eight, because it was cheaper. Honestly, no one wants a left hand bolt I just bought. I just bought a new seventeen HMR that you ever shoot the Ruger seventy seven like the model, and I've got it in three seven. It's like probably my favorite rightfalities, absolutely, and I just loved the action on it. So I saw one in seventeen and I was like, I just can't resist. And it was pretty cheap, but it was right handed, and I liked it better than the left but it's cheap anyway. I just think the cast had one of My brother Danny has it now in Alaska, really because it was right handed. Once Motime made to switch the left handed. Oh so you're all about that now? Now I'm Joe left hand. I mean, I've always been left handed, but now I got used to, Like, I got over the impulse to lower the guns, switch hands, work the bowl, which is once I got over it. Now I would never go back. But at first I'll just very because we shot hand me downs, Like you grew up shooting hand me down right hand. That's exactly how I grew up. And now I have so many right handed bolt action rifles that I would like, what am I going to do with them? All? You know what I mean? So I have to stick with them. Yeah, we're going on caliber's. Yeah, we got a covering. Yeah, hey, walk walk me through. Um uh oh, you know there's nothing I want to ask you. First. Do you argue about politics of your kids? Not once, not one time. We don't talk politics at home ever, ever, not one time. I raised my kids in Northwest DC and Washington, d C. In the city, and Washingtons are very I have to say. I mean, it's a very screwed up place, and I'm glad I don't live there anymore. But I spent many years the decades there and it's a very pretty city. I mean, we lived right on a National park. You would not know you were in a city. It's like it's a it's a nice place stories kids, if you're going to do it in a city, but you're right in the middle of all this political drama. And because you are Washington had this pretty wonderful culture of nonpartisanship in the neighborhoods. So you live next to people because it's a trans and city, so it's like people coming into work for this administration that administration. The neighborhood that we lived in and raised our kids in was like the permanent people who stayed and because you're around it all day, you just didn't talk about it at all. We would never talk politics. In fact, it was like forbidden. You don't bring that ship up at a dinner party. And you know a lot of people with dinner party go over someone's house for dinner. That was very common every weekend. And like my neighbor was Hunter Biden's business partner, and then Hunter Biden lived right down the street. You know, we would never had many dinners with Hunter Biden. Always liked him. Our wives were good friends and we never talk politics one time ever ever. And you extended that into your and my wife was always pretty resolutely non political. Um she's from Michigan, talks just like you the car and the park and um. And she was always kind of liberal but kind just not you know, just nice person, kind of thing. Um, she got way more political when in Tifa showed up at her house. Uh, that kind of radicalized her a little bit. But but we just never weve gotten had never talked about I mean, I don't think I've talked about my job with my kids a single time at dinner, not one time. And they sort of dimly were aware of what I did. But then, you know, we lived in a neighborhood with you know, senators and ambassadors and everyone has a kind of high profile sort of political job in the world that they grew up in and so and there are a lot of famous people, and so my kids were just like, they don't like that stuff. They don't like politics. Um, No, we never talked about it. And because it felt a little bit like if you're a porn star, would you come home and be like, yeah, you'll never gets what I did today? You just like, wouldn't. It's just kind of not for kids. That's how we always felt. And by the way, I don't think you should politicize your kids, Like what is that you know? They don't know? What do they know? They don't you know, they're not married, they don't have their own children, they don't pay taxes. They don't. They can't even vote, so like that are getting them involved. I do find it hard with them, um and deal with my own kids when you talk about politicizing, because something will come up and it's like extremely complicated, and they'll pick up a sentiment and I almost one of them be like, no, even though that's a sentiment I just expressed, don't have that sentiment, well kind of because there's a whole lot of things that went into that sentiment, and so just don't like how old are your children? Don't ride your bike? Uh, six eight and eleven? So I think if I were raising my kids now, thank god I'm not. They're all out of the house and all sort of happy and well adjusted. But if I were raising them now, I would push back against this ship because they are they are. There are totally unscrupulous people who are trying to politicize kids. And I don't almost don't care what your political views are. Stay the funk away from children. I mean that, like, what are you doing? You know, you're not allowed to have sex with children. You shouldn't be allowed to politicize you know, their children, like stop And people are so aggressive in the world that I use to live in about throwing propaganda in your kids faces and laying these heavy duty moral trips on them and all the stuff that is so wrong that I think that if I had kids in like sixth grade, and they were coming home and saying stuff and be like, you know, fuck your teachers, honestly, fuck your teachers. Excuse me, sorry, Like I feel that way really strongly. I think it's like, it's so immoral to do that to someone who can't fight back over whom you have power. Teachers have power over kids. They can't disagree, Like, who would do something like that. You're not able to captive audience, I think that, yeah, and you're not able to give the full they're they're not equipped to understand like all the steps that got there exactly. So when you introduce, like when you introduce even contemporary subjects to them, um, you lose sight of the fact that you're carrying behind you sort of like decades worth of understanding the evolution of ideas, and then all of a sudden you just deliver them. They'd be like, you're giving them the answer without showing them the work. That's a really smart analogy, and I I recoil from it. But then I also don't want them to be like I don't want them to be naive and idiots. Well, kids also have a hair trigger sense of moral outrage. All children do. It's very easy to exploit. So it's very easy to tell kids there's a right side and a wrong side. The wrong side is im moral, the right side is virtuous, and kids will buy it. Kids are extremely judgmental because they're not aware of their own shortcomings because they haven't failed yet. So your average fifty two year old, which is where I find myself, it's a little bit harder to judge because you're like, you know, I kind of get I disagree with what you're doing, but I kind of get why you're doing it, or in that circumstances, maybe I would do the same. You're you're less judgmental as you age because you understand how incredibly complex life is and decisions are hard to wise, decisions are hard to reach, and sometimes people fail and you've failed, and you know, as my father Sho said, I was a kid, the root of all wisdom is knowing what an asshole you are, And as you age, you appreciate what an asshole you are. Kids do appreciate that, and so you can turn them into the camera rousion about twenty minutes and the cameras literally did this with kids that'd be like, you know, you know, here's an a K forty seven. Those are the bad guys, go kill them. They're like okay. And so to exploit that weakness in children strikes me as especially dishonorable. It really really did. I'm like so offended by it, I can't even And by the way it, you know, it goes. That's saying that the politics that kids are being exposed to are not my politics. But even if they were, I would disagree with it. I just I'm just liberal in a traditional sense that way. I think we should keep kids out of it. I really do uh talk talk through when you get involved in something like pebble mind, like on your show, I mean, you gotta be like inundated with all like every issue on the planet, right, And here's the one that probably um wasn't like it wasn't in the news cycle, you know, on a national sense. It wasn't like it wasn't sort of like driving the day's news, right, but you you kind of like hit on a thing like this an address and had people come talk about it and it's not a ratings play. No, no, it's definitely not my press. Like really Bristol Bay a lask like what the salmon spawn come on? How often do you get like how often do you do a thing where you bring a thing up that that is sort of dovetailed with your personal Like you don't do a fishing report every night? You're interesting fishing? Well, you know, I try not, And this is something else you fight against his u h. I try not to be boorish, Like if you had given me any leash at all, I would have bored you about fly tying for like an hour because I can't control myself. You know, how do you wrap the hackle? That's not the right way to palmer, Like, I could actually get stultifying on the subject, but you pull yourself back, so you try try to be self aware and like, just because your interesting doesn't mean other people are and whatever, So I pull back a lot. I have all kinds of weird obsessions um, mostly having to do with hunting and fishing and nature and animals. Dogs. I'm really we have four dogs. They sleep on the bed, four spaniels you know, like, so I could do like a dog show, but not everyone else, Not everyone thinks like springers and English cockers are as endlessly fascinating as I think they are. Literally exactly. I literally looked at pictures of my spaniels on the plane today flying here. That's how obsessed him. But I don't I don't want to impose that in my audience because they're not as interested as I am. But occasionally there's there's a subject that the emotion comes welling up in such a way that I can't pull it back, and destroying the largest salmon spawning ground in the world because some Canadian copper company wants more, you know, no, And I just felt like that crossed a line in my mind. And it does match up with something that I try to introduce as a concept a lot, which is the more that people, especially I'm just gonna say it, I am one of them, but the more that rich people virtue signal about the environment and the earth, the more they tend to kind of degrade the environment in the earth. The more we talk about climate and I'm not anying the existence of climate change at all, It's clear to me. On the other hand, the more we focus on that, the more I noticed that, like the places I fish become dirtier and there's more garbage by the side of the stream, Like whatever happened to stopping littering, Like if you can't stop littering, then you're failing as a conservationist, Like because littering is despoiling the environment and stuff like that. I just I really feel strongly about that. And air and water quality is like the most basic level of conservation. There's nothing theoretical about it. If the water is too dirty for the fish to live, you're guilty of a crime. That's how I feel about it. It's super simple, and we can measure that. It's not hard to know whether that's happening. You know, we don't need some scientific model. Well, really is the hockey stick real? Like what was the temperature in medieval Europe? We don't need to guess about water quality. We can find out immediately and we can look at the fishery and the health of the fishery and you know, d D T. We didn't need to guess that it was killing birds of prey because suddenly there are fewer birds of prey. Like we knew that the shells were getting thinner, and you know, Rachel Carson was right, Okay, so we stopped you anyway, you see my point. So on that subject, it was like, you know, I'm not against mining, I'm not against extraction. I'm not against medals. As a shooter. You know, I go through a lot of copper, so I'm I'm for copper. Copper. Yeah, I have jars and pennies in my closet, so you know, I'm I'm not against copper. But it's a balance. You know, there are coppers found in a lot of different places, and like, how about we don't destroy this very rare place. And I was just in this weird circumstance or no fault on my own, where I had some small man, I'm a talk show host, I'm not elected to anything. I have no actual power. But there was just this weird confluence of events where I did have some measure of influence on this one specific thing. Yeah, it was timed, I mean it was timed right. Yeah. And again, my job is just to explain what I think the news means. It's a really simple job. My job is not to change the world old it's not to make you know, lead a movement or anything like that. I mean, I have a very narrowly defined job description in my head. What's going on in the world, what does it mean? That's it. That's my whole job. And I write my script every I write my open every night. I'm gonna write it after the show. And that's what I brewed on him. I'm basically a writer that I'm not basically, I'm literally a writer. That's my job. So I don't see myself as like waking up every morning to make the world better, you know, save some fishing spot that I happened to like. But it just so happened that, you know, I had the for a fleeting second, the power to have a small effect on this one thing that I cared about, and so I did. I tried to make a habit of that. I'm not an activist. On the opposite of an activist, what's the opposite of an activist? I like to watch. I'm a voyeur. I started as a print journalist. My dad was a print journalist. Like he. My dad had politics. I have politics. But ultimately you're job is to is to just sit quietly and watch things and try and figure out what they mean. And tell people what happened. I mean, I really feel that way. But what was so interesting about that moment in time, over the course of how long the back and forth of pebble mind has been going, was, uh, the activists from all corners of the activist world said, holy shit, even Tucker Carlson's talking about this. People are so dumb. It's like, even Carls and what, I'm on the side of some Canadian copper mine, Like, why would I be on that side? And I like Canada. I fished a lot in Canada, I used to have property in Canada, But like, why would I necessarily be on that side. It's just just how dumb people are. They're like, well, you must be for this. Well, no, actually I'm not. You know where people have assumption. I don't really care what people think of me. Obviously you can't be this hated if you care, and I really don't. But I'm always kind of amazed by the assumption that people have, well you must think this, will know, why would I think that? No, I really don't. And on the just because I don't have any weird mystical reason, but I I just really enjoy the outdoors. I have my whole life, and I have my views on actual environmental stuff are definitely more on the radical side. I just you know, I don't think that we should ban wood stoves because of climate change so like, but that doesn't mean I mean, you know, I think some of the climate stuff is is a pure power grab. And I noticed because I lived there for thirty years. I know a lot of the people involved in it, and you know, they don't ever go outside like ever. They know nothing about the natural world. And you're lecturing me on the environment. Really, you know, who do There's another agenda here, and it's a political agenda. It's politics, of course, so there's a political agenda. But the pure conservation environmentalist agenda is something I buy one hundred percent. Why wouldn't I? I I love nature, It's at the center of my life. You saying you mentioned um Rachel Carlson. Rachel Carson made me think of Rachel Maddow. You guys lined up at some point in your career. Is at a news organization when you're young? Yeah, I hired her. Actually, Um, I had a show. There was a period when MSNBC didn't sort of know what it was. I had just I've beenn't seeing n for a long time. Um, I hated them. They were just so loathsome Oh my god, they're like the worst people. Was like the collection of the worst people in the world, all worked in one place, made it convenient to avoid it was it was, it was, And ultimately I laughed and MS was trying to rebrand as like a more populous I don't know what. They didn't really know what they wanted, but they made me the lead anchor there. I was later fired for low ratings. It didn't work. Um, but while I was there, I wanted someone to debate, you know, I wanted to like that's what you guys link up was. Yeah. So I went through. We actually had all these tapes from different agents like people, well you should hire my client or whatever. And I got to hers and I was like, Wow, this woman is really smart and she's a she's a linear thinker. She'd be like, Okay, if this happens, then that happens. She wasn't. She was very rational in her debate STYT, which I love, and she's a nice person and so we brought her on. We hired her to do this debate segment, and I thought she was great. I always got along with her. Um in later life she got obsessed with fishing. That's what I wanted to ask about fishing. Yes, I knew that you guys had had some overlap at a news organization, and I knew she liked to fish. I was curious, if you guys are like, just like a funny play fishing. Well it was well, Actually what happened was she wasn't into fishing when she was a radio host actually on this like progressive UH network Air America that later went to FUNCTI. I remember that wasn't l frank and Franken started it exactly and it was just a different time, you know, where you could have friends with different views. That it was like a satellite show right right exactly, a big serious or whatever the hell. And she was not into fishing. I was. In fact, one of the reasons I got fired was I would like fish too much and not do my work. I was incredibly lazy and and tight old at the time. Getting fired makes you less lazy and entitled. But I would literally this show was shot in a warehouse in Cea Caucus, New Jersey, which is like it's it's where it's like a post industrial wastee. It's where all the slaughter houses words right outside the city, on the other side of the Lincoln Tunnel. It's truly unattractive, but they're all these retaining ponds there, and so I would always bring my fly rod and just like bass fish before the show. And anyway, I ultimately got fired because people see you on TV, is that's safe to assume you were fishing within twenty four hours? First of all? For sure? Well, now I mean I live. I mean I live on an island in a lake where you know, fish rise off my dock, so it's pretty easy. But anyway, I got fired, and she became the star of the network, which she still is. That was fifteen at least fifteen years ago, and she went on to serious startum and she's like one of the most influential people in the Democratic Party. Then she got into fishing, and then she got into fishing and she is she told me this, and I'm I'm probably gonna butcher this, but I think was a friend of her said, you're under a lot of stress. You should go out into New York Harbor. There's pretty good striper fishing certain times a year, and you should pick up a fly rod and see if you can take one on a popper, And she did after the show, like at night, which is pretty crazy also kind of dangerous actually to be fishing in New York Harbor at night, you know. But whatever, But she got really really into it, like obsessed as people do with the fly rod, you know, something about the action of loading a rod. It's like one of the coolest sort of experiences in physics here, just like how does that happen? You know? Anyway, she got really into it, and we've always gotten along. I've never criticized her. I think she's totally sincere. You know, we just have different views, which has always been fine. We've never fished, you know, and she lives. I wanted. I wanted to hear that. You guys, we never did, and I'm sure that we will because um some of the guys that UM tr CP know her. Well. I just never go anywhere because like why would I. So I go to I go to Montana and Alaska and that's about it. Let me ask you about a current event d thing. UM, I don't know if you're up on it or not. If you're not, you don't have to. UM. No, apologies necessary, but they did. So they voted on if you don't know this by now, like, we don't really, we don't release these the day we make them. Anyways, today, whatever the hell today is Thursday. It was a stone manning the BLM. Biden's tapped the person he tapped to head the BLM. You familiar with the story at all? Yep? Someone an earth first person or yeah, seemingly layout. So so they we're texting about this morning. It's it's undecided. It was like, but how is it a toss up? It's not a fifty to fifty toss up. It's like a five to five toss up. No, the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources voted. It was split along party lines. So stri party lines, Um, so the vote will go to the full Senate. This is a really tricky one, man, it is I agree, lay it out, just lay a layout. Who not the if stansor butts. When Tracy Stone manning Biden's pick his nominee for the head of BLM Bureau of Land Management, Uh, she is or was at National Wildlife Federation, I believe is that that is right now? Okay? Um, in her younger days and this apparently was on record uh throughout her career, but now is much more much more on topic is University Montana ble Steve and I went to the University of Montana for stance Um. She was involved with earth First. Uh and like a radical group of Earth First, not as a high schooler, as a graduate student, as a graduate So you're getting up into you're getting up into being like a sentient beings. Ben, being a sentient being. Your parents shouldn't be coming in wave and a finger and being like now you know better? Right, So you're like, yeah, you're well into your twenties. Yes, and uh, this this group of Earth first 's uh, there's a logging operations set set to go over the hill and the clear water. Um they were protesting that. Uh. Within that group, they decided in order to protest this, they were going to spike trees, which is the act of driving some sort of a rod into a tree that when a chainsaw bar and chain hit that can have some catastrophic destructive repercussions potentially with chunks of metal flying places. And you know it's it's a situation that can get somebody hurt. Yeah, well I know that A I don't even know where I just read it in relation to this story that a mill at least one known mill worker was killed from a blade hitting us an intentionally placed spike in in this situation or just in the history of it was like giving a round up on spiking how it's generally used to be that like done in the way you're gonna lay out people spike and they go like, hey, heads up, don't even bother their spike. You wouldn't. Not that you wouldn't. Um, you could also spike it not tell anybody, which is I'm not trying to one better than the other, but like worse than spiking is spiking and not telling anyone. You'd be like the I E. D or a land mine would be like the contemporary equivalent. I would say, I don't. I don't think that's too much of a stretch. You're hiding something that's gonna blow up in somebody's face. Um. Now, the two sides of this, from what I understand is, uh, Tracy stone Manning has been uh called like part of the group no knew about the tree spiking, very involved. And then the other side would be that she just retyped a letter for the group and was in fact, like not that involved, but attached to it. And she turned state's evidence on the tree spikers, the folks that actually committed the act of tree spiking. And I think too the guys went to prison, um for pretty good stance. You know, I'm not mistake. And it was they wrote. Ah, it's described um that subscribed in news articles as profanity laced. Uh. They wrote a profanity laced letter to the Forest Service saying, hey, we spiked the trees for some reason. I'll never understand this, and only the people involved would know. She transcribed it. She typed a hand she typed a handwritten letter and turned the letter in later. UM. Her story was that, oh, I was notifying them, like giving them the heads up. And in another way to look at it would be that you were complicit and it was part the plan to do it and tell people, and so you were part of it. You weren't like calling nine on one. And I think she's trying to recast it as more of like a nine one one call rather than a I l part of all part of the plan call. Yeah. And I have, like I've transcribed plenty of stuff, and I don't always do it without adding my own little right. So it's like, you know, there's there's parts of that that I I just it's hard to say. But um, so there's this. We can say that she's an eco terrorist, um or we can say she's just caught up in the wrong crowd. But like the over arching thing here is like it did happen a long time ago, thirty years but we know that no one cares. There's no statutal limitations on anything anymore. Minute right, Um, but she's had a long career and has pretty darn good marks as far as like her willingness to work with different groups and uh, you know, comple eat objectives on behalf of wild places throughout her career. Yeah. I don't buy the thirty year thing because if someone made you could make an off color joke thirty years ago and still lose your career. So the fact that you commit like uh, like you are are are not involved in in an act of terrorism, Like I don't think it would term out. I think it's tricky. It's like I don't I try to reading this morning, I try to get an opinion. I can't make a good opinion. I can't make a good opinion, Like, I don't know, it's very tricky for the Biden administration because here's like, oh, it's like, uh, it's radicalized domestic terrorism. And you've always been talking about that a whole bunch about not liking that, blaming me for it. Yeah, yes, yeah, I mean a bunch of different lean. First of all, I'm in Montana, So let me just say, because I think it's required, I hate peeling Bureau of Land. Man. Actually I don't hate pealing, but I know that there I've had some intense conversations about Bureau of Land Management fishing out here. People are very strong feelings about them. Holy smokes. So as far as like if they're running their cattle out, whether they've been managing whenever the public land. Well, I'm not gonna get involved. This is not my region of the purity um. But man, some people hate them, you know. I'd say a couple of things. One, you know, they're hiring a lot of radicals, like actual radicals, which freaks me out because I'm one thing, I'm not as radical. I believe in kind of incremental progress. I mean, I believe in nature, which doesn't know, there's something radical about nature it's like, no, they're there, big time radical. That guy's a freaking But in this case, I have a bunch of different feelings. One, I live in a region that is defined by logging, you know, lumber and paper mills. That's what you know, that's what it is. And I think the the threat to forests is not Wherehouse or Meade I p you know, it's not the traditional paper companies, the land management companies. It's the selling off of the physical assets of a lot of these companies to private equity firms like Beirut, the Yale Endowment, the University Endowment. And the problem is they whack the ship out of the land. And you know, your traditional like the Pingree family in Maine, which they own like a million acres of land they have for a hundred and fifty years, like they cut carefully because that's you know, it's their land. But when you disaggregate this stuff, it creates incentives for people just to come in and just rape the land. And I'm against that. I mean, there's a way to manage a forest that's good for everybody. And if the then gets chopped up into really small places and sold off, then it's a huge problem, like we don't get the forest back ever, thank you. So there are real concerns about how to manage forest, especially around fires. There's like an endless conversation that I'm super interested in because I live in the middle of a forest. But not to be boring, but so I think it's worth having a debate about how do we do this some of the the radicals you know on this subject, I am kind of sympathetic with making trees is ridiculous because first of all, who's it hurt? The working man, the most despised suffering group in America. The people are dying of fentinelods, the people who live near me all. You know, every man in my county has worked in the woods, as they say, in me at one point or another. I had a chainsaw blow up in me two years ago. I over sharpened the chain, you know those I don't know if you ever sharpened a chainsaw chain, but the files are incredibly sharp and you can weaken the chain if you're not paying attention. I didn't have my glasses and I was and the thing I was making a cut at shoulder height and the chain broke and nothing happened. Actually it was totally fine, but it scared the ship out of me. So like the idea people can get really hurt, but you're on a chance, say you had your your pro I didn't. I didn't know I had. Actually, honestly, I had those whatever the stupid cheap ear protection that Hiccock forty five wears. You know, it's just like the strap around because it does hurt your ears. And I didn't even have glasses on because it was like long story, but when it blops, no, I did flip flog, but it was but it was just scary. Anyway, I'm very sympathetic, Like spiking trees hurts exactly the wrong people if you're mad about what Warehouser's doing, taken up with the head of Warehouser and but not the man who's cutting the trees. Absolutely, And that's but that's like one of the things that I battle with on this conversation. That But it's also like the mark of a stupid kid, where it's like, have you ever met a logger that is logging because they hate trees. I've been around a lot along me too, and they love trees and they can talk about trees forever. I mean, I have a guy who is one of my closest friends in Maine. It was was longer alas like, but he can bore you for like three hours and did the other night just on hemlock. You know. The thing about hemlock is I mean, and I'm not exaggerating, like they love trees and you know everything about trees, and now they have Feller bunchers where I live. So it's like you're sitting inside a cab, you know, cutting ten trees at once. There's no you know, spiking is not because skinners and chainsaws are gone. Actually they're not a part of industrial loging anymore. But the point is hitting the guy on the ground who's making a wage. Really, if you're doing that, you're the exactly the kind of person I hate, which is a morally inflamed, out of touch, rich college kid with head up his ass, Like that's the wrong way to approach whatever you think the problem is is hurting the wager on or at the bottom of the food chain. I just hate that. But I do think that we should have a real conversation about forest management, and we're not because we're only about climate. I'm again, I'm not saying climate's not an issue. I think it is, but like we have actual solvable issues. You know, how do you manage a forest? The beetle kill it killed me. Forest management and climate change are like very dovetailed. They are, they are, but climate change, like climate change, is more real than the solutions to climate change. So my problem the climate change is not does it exist or whatever? I mean, it's hard to measure, but to something sense, it's measurable. And as someone who loves to snowshoe, it's clearly something's going on where I snowshoe. Okay, I get it. But what do we do about it? Is the real question, And that's a highly politicized question, the nuanced question with a lot of unknowns. What's not unknown is why the water quality sucks, or you know, if Beirut is somehow you know, selling off paper company land for condos on Moosehead, Like I think we can be against that. I guess that's my point. So like, let's start with the things that we can actually affect that have known solutions, Like why not start there? Like how about no more throwing McDonald's bags at your window? How about when you come to this country, the first thing you learned. We're totally welcome to have you. I'm I'm pro immigrant personally. We don't litter here. And by the way, if you literal were gonna cut your hands off because you're not allowed to do that. No littering, like no littering, just no littering. That would cut down on littering. Well, when I was a kid growing up in California, littering was like the worst thing you could do. You know. The sexual ethics in the world I lived in were very loose. I would say, you could have sex with anybody. But throwing a beer can out a window there was the crying Indian. Remember that because remember, like littering was bad. I still feel that way. Don't wreck the land, you don't throw ship on the land, do you know what I mean? They recreated that scene in Wayne's world too, Spencer, if that's closer. But if I've got a fifty gallon druma used motor oil, maybe don't pour it in the stream where I live. The paper companies they have, you know, they send the cruise in. You can't cut in the spring because it's too wet. You can't get the machines in there. Um so you know, late spring when it dries out a little bit, they'd send the cruise in to cut and the mosquitoes are so intense, it's like Alaska in western Maine, that they would take use motor oil and just pour it on the streams because it you know, mosquitoes can't lay their eggs and yeah, or another thing that people did where I live is to rustproof their cars. They drill holes around the top of the windows and they would pour use motor oil into the car are frame, get into the into the body of the car, and then it would solely drip out and that would keep your car from rusting. Remember that, Like that's bad, Like let's stop that kind of thing before we start, you know, stopping my woodstove. I don't know where they're at on it now. But there was, uh, who's the guy who's the guy that wrote like the no not the corrections, damn it? A novelist. I was reading his thing. He had to think about climate change, and he was looking at the insurmountability of of addressing the issue, and he was like basically pessimistic about the you know, getting like India on board and China on board and that do it, and he was like, the thing we can do is tighten up our program in all the areas that we can affect, meaning habitat preservation right clean, this is gonna go. There's one thing we can do, is is like batting down the hatches. That's how I feel, exactly know. And that was and it was it was the thought provoking set of ideas kind of like but I said, like I said, pessimistic or fatalistic, which is where I would you sit because um on that one, I just looking and be like, oh, now, globally like how climate change like to get the developing world on board, it just seems so hard to do. Man, So some people say, like, if it'll be, it'll wind up needing to be. It's gonna need to be a technological solution because it's not going to be that everyone that that globally everything, we have to revisit massive imperialism to get everybody on one program. And it's just harbon emissions are driven by industrial production and that's not what we do anymore. We let other countries do exactly, so the countries that and and global I mean, over time, the most powerful country in the world is the industrial power the country that makes the most ship has the most power. Was true of the UK, was true of the U S. It's becoming true of China. So that's very obvious when you look over this scope of a hundred years. So like, why would China say, well, we're just gonna de industrialize right as we're taking over the world. Probably not gonna happen. Same with India, same with Africa. You know, if you're if you're cooking dinner over cow pies, it's kind of cool to have bottled LP gas, Like, why wouldn't you want that? And they do And I understand that. So I don't know, you need to kind of keep that in mind that we're not going to stop carbon emissions in a meaningful way until we can stop the industrialized, the emerging industrialized powers from building coal plants. And we can't because coal is just cheaper. How many coal plants is China build? This? Ye, I'm attacking China. I get it, that's their national interest. But we need to be honest about it. Oh, we we would have to ignore our history here in the United States in order to but we're not going to be honest. And and but let me just say this, is one thing I am an expert on. I'm not an expert on global climate change. I spent a lot of time reading about it, but I'm not hardly an expert. Obviously, I'm not a scientist. I'm an expert on politics. I think I can say that concludes of Lee. And whenever politicians of either party enter into a political debate, the solutions will be political. And by political, I mean they will be designed to enhance the power of the people designing the solutions. Sorry, that that's what it is. That's what politics is. How do I, yeah, exactly, how do I empower myself and dis empower you? And to pretend that because we call something science, that the rules of politics, which are fundamental laws that are unchanging, don't apply your lying and the true but it's also true for COVID doesn't mean COVID it's not real. It doesn't mean we shouldn't take precautions against our trying fight it or whatever. We should do all kinds of things. But the second politicians enter into the equation, they're overriding concern is how will these solutions make me more powerful? And that's just always true. It doesn't matter what the topic is, and for the rest of us to pretend it's not because someone yelled science in a crowded theater relying to ourselves and we're not. You know, we're not going to get to the wisest answer if we pretend that politicians aren't always acting to make themselves more powerful and us less powerful, because they are always that's true account. Can I get an amen? Yeah? I believe you, Laz Joonan Tuck, Carlson Spence, what do you need to plug? Wrote me a note through my computer. One last thing. We set up an email address called Trivia at the mediator dot com so you can wait to see how it went. Wouldn't That's what I want. Send an email there, tell me what you like, tell me what you didn't like, tell me if there's something you think I got wrong. But most of all, I want you to write in with your own questions that you want to stump Steve and the crew with. And if we use your question and give you a shout out on the podcast, and do you want to invite their feedback about whether you should be given more time and more latitude to pursue your trivia dream. Yes, I want you to convince Steve that this is a good idea. I can't believe I lost to a clerical error on my own. I never, I never, I never finish explained what you guys are fighting about. Oh last night? Yeah, so they got a real bad fight, real bad. It was hard to track. Rode was more pointing out that you could now use a muzzleloader and flintlock. So fed up, she just almost left. My wife wanted to go home. She's so irritated. Uh. We had a debate last night. I'm trying because we got like it wasn't clear. It became that Um, it turned into this is this is what they got some mad about. It turned into would having a flintlock season at that time contribute to pushing more Elk off public land onto private and would they then return? I think that's what you guys were fighting about. We got into that, for sure, and Cal At one point Um tried to put Broody in his place, Kel saying I wouldn't come and tell you about wolves in Colorado, don't tell me about Elk and Montana. That was one of the lower points. That was the point him an asshole question. Flintlock? Is it rifle barrel or muskets, rifled barrel primitive like okay, traditional not in the new in but the lock is traditional, but the barrel is ok you can usually kill elk and you gotta and you can't use a telescope. You can't use the scope. Yeah, but it was it was the reason. Here's why they were so testy about it. Um, I don't want to spend a ton time. They were so testy about it because it's a it's a part of a longer thing. There's a conversation about are we pushing elk too hard? Too long? Yeah, that's a fair And so it was like this was like a proxy battle you had like the Soviet Union in America, right, which is like are we That was that? And then this was a flare up in Louse, you know about the flint lock that you guys are fighting about. Are we pushing elk too hard? Yeah? And then but it took the form of like yet another example of we don't even need to get that we do on half of the word opportunity, Like everything's good if we provide more opportunity. Yeah, And at a point it might be just you can't kill elk seven months out of the year and meanwhile, while folks at the dinner table are getting uncomfortable and with like and Steve is scoring it like a boxing match. That's a great point, Brodie. And then Brodi would take is here and he said, oh, well, said Brodie, cow what he got. But does anyone think it's kind of I mean, to shoot an elk with a frontlock does seem like kind of sporting. That's the problem with the end of the argument is like, what do you gotta get flat? Like nothing? If it goes into effect, I will get one and kill an elk withly. But what I'm saying in the end it was a pointless argument. So what's the range for effective range for pontock? We need to put it? Because Seth grew up in the first state to ever have a flint lock deer season Pennsylvania. Did you learn all about this? Watch media on Netflix coming up September Because you're hunting white tails that go insane after they've been hunted with rifles for a couple of stuff. Did you ever take one of the phont lock? Yeah? Several? Wow, Yeah, yeah, we used to. It was the last season of the year, so it was like your last chance to get a deer for the standard. Are you talking to them? A lot of deer drives? I forgot they do that. Oh yeah, man, yeah, we shot an episode all about I haven't seen I've never done that. We haven't released yet, and I'll just tell you right now, well I could. I'm gonna be like Spencer to watch all right, everybody, Uh, talker, thanks so much for coming out. It's fun to talk. This is what you guys do for a living. I really envy you. Oh yeah, painted about flintlock l hunting like you've already won. I don't know what you get paid, but you you win. Well. We're going up to the fish shack in Alaska, uh, starting tomorrow, right, and you know the rule up there is no politics over dinner either, So good. I like that it is now. I'm just saying, yeah, we should like that. But but I'm bringing my three kids too, so that would violate the other rule about not politicizing children. That's true. It's all about our treble hook snagging. You know what I like in salt water up there, You've got a position that of course you do, but you are allowed like it's yeah, put that down in future talking point future like saltwater snagging. Uh, okay, you're not. It's not. And I'm sorry it's not. And I don't care if you have a native exemption, it's not. And and put this question in there, why is it so much easier to land a salmon with a fly rod? Because about eyes in their mouths? Because when not hooked in the postman, No, that's totally true. Actually, I like my son's always on me for foul hooking fish on dry flies. Your resections aren't fast enough, whatever, But I always argue it's it's actually more impressive to land of foul hook fish, like in the Dorsho fan. Yeah, oh my gosh, when he's out there and you can feel his tail moving, we say they fight harder when you hook him in the motor. All right, everybody, thanks for joining, Thanks for supporting the books to really appreciate it. Take care,