Hey, everybody, just an f y I. We recorded this episode before we were in a pandemic. We thought that my beautiful context for you indeed, but we hope it still brings you inside and inspiration during this challenging time. Hanging there. The Limit Does Not Exist is a production of I Heart Radio. Hey, I'm Christina Wallace and I'm Kate Scott Campbell, and you're listening to the Limit does Not Exist. A podcast for human ven Diagrams, coming at you every single week and hosted by us. Welcome back to our virtual office. We're here with our second installment of Office Hours, in which we tackle your big questions and common human ven Diagram challenges. Today, we're helping you talk about yourself. How do you explain who you are and what you do in a way that makes sense to others and even more importantly to you as you navigate interviews, parties, and first impressions of all kinds. We're here to help you present your myriad skills as the highly valuable package that they are, and not as something that you need to downplay or hide in a closet on the internet somewhere. We'll help you reverse engineer the whole process by identifying your personal through lines, translatable skills, and yes, your personal brand will even break down brass tacks like what the heck to put on your website. So, whether you're gearing up to change careers, move into a new industry, or you just want to feel comfortable and confident about all of the pieces of your story, You've come to the right office. So let's jump in, shall we. Let's do it. So Christina, tell me about yourself. Oh my gosh, is there a more dreaded question or diagrams? I don't think they're is that question? Is just all of the prickliness that comes with I feel every guest we've had on the show hasn't deer in the headlights look the second we we asked them that. I mean, whether it's like a job interview, or it's a networking event, or it could just be like meeting someone new at a dinner party. Yes, this question can feel like such a landmine, right because at its core, it's about how do you show who you are as a whole person without coming across its fifty whole people? Yeah, without just like listing out your whole resume, right, Like, it's such a fine line to tow but it's so powerful when you get it right. Well, it's absolutely right, And it's a great place for us to start in this episode because you know, it really kind of opens up everything, all of the feelings and fears that come up with how do I talk about myself off in a way that will make sense to you person? And I think, Christina, something that I really like to do is when you hear a question like that, so tell me about yourself, I like to kind of unpack it. So first ask what is this question really about? Like it's a way of getting to know you. I feel like this question is just one of those things that's kind of perpetuated in our culture because it's kind of like I don't know where to begin, so why don't you just begin somewhere? You know, And they're putting the onus on you to pick off the conversation. And at the very least here in New York and a fair number of other major cities I've lived in, your job is a proxy for who you are, which is like not actually a true statement, but it's how people start to get to know you. That's not true in all cultures, but I think in the US, and certainly on the East Coast. The job as a starting point for conversation is a really natural, easy place to start, but it can feel really problematic when you don't have just one job. Well that's really interesting. Yeah. It actually reminds me of when I was in college. I was in a sorority and we had, of course sorority rush, and the proxy there was where you from? What dorm do you live in? And I remember, and I remember that this girl came through on the second or third day of rush and on her T shirt she wrote her name, where she was from, and what dorm she lived in. And I sat down with her and she said, Okay, now that you know all of that, let's talk about some fun stuff. And I was just amazed by her. Did you like that or was it did it feel like a little aggressive? Well, you know, I thought it was really clever, because at that point I was so tired of asking those questions as starters. And I think that's another thing to really think about, right, is that at the baseline here, what is hopefully going to happen in an interview or a dinner party or a networking event, is that there will be a human connection. If you're asked this question tell me about yourself in an interview, they already have your resume, and if you're asked it in a social setting, they can look at your portfolio online later. So I think you can really help to take the pressure off and that very sort of inorganic aspect to this question by really releasing yourself from needing to be a resume and find some other ways in So let's talk about what a few of those are. A few of those sort of sparks to answer this question. So I like to think of this is less about the like let me tell you about my entire work history, and more about let me sort of share my personal brand. Now, some people are going to cringe that phrase, and I get it, believe me, I do. However, it's a good shorthand for saying, let me tell you about what matters to me and the types of work I'm doing or the thing that I'm putting out in the world, because that's ultimately what I think a personal brand comes down to. I don't remember who actually originally said this, but it's a phrase that I refer to a lot when I'm doing personal brand consulting. Is that marketing is what you say about yourself, and brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room. That's really interesting because I think that term personal brand can sound so like far away. It can I feel so over there when you're meeting. You know, if you're introducing your friend to someone new, what are the first things that come to mind when you're about to introduce them. If I'm like, hey, this is Kate. She is I'm making this up off the fly, so do not hold me to this later, I am watch she is this dynamite multi hyphen its storyteller and creator who I have been collaborating with for several years and just is a obsessed with how do we tell great stories, particularly to get women and girls really excited about things like math and stem and technology and owning their future. That's your brand to me, based on what I know about you and how we've interacted. That might not be your brand as an actress in l A, but in our work, that's how I talk about you when you're not in the room. By the way, so what's helpful in personal brand work is sort of figuring out how you would want to be mentioned or discussed when you're not in the room, what are the pieces that you would put together? And part of that is based on your purpose, your why, what do you care about? And part of that is based on what is the actual work that you do that you want to contribute to that purpose that why? Yeah, I think you bring up a really great point, Christina, to which, of course is built in and that is, of course, this depends on what room you're in and who you're walking with, and so there's some calibration there. I love that point about how would you want people to talk about you? And it can feel, i know, really overwhelming to say those things about yourself, and it's often can be easier to say, oh, I am my own fake assistant advocating for myself, rather than myself advocating for myself. And so something that I really like to do is I really like to think about including both personal and professional information and really thinking of a launch point that I don't need to answer every possible piece of that question. I just need to get the conversation started and we can go from there. The number one thing you want someone to say after you've answered that question is oh, tell me more, because that gives you that opportunity to go into those details. If, on the other hand, you have dominated the airspace by just you know, dumping up paragraph of information on them and their response to that is oh, and then they turned to the person on the other side of them at the dinner table. That's not a good thing, right. So this actually brings me to one of my favorite public speaking tips is that whenever you're giving a speech, you can really think about it as a conversation, right, even if you are the only one speaking, and certainly in this situation, you are literally in a conversation, even if you are the one who's talking about yourself. At the moment, you're still calibrating did they get that right? It's this really a two way street. Are we two human beings here getting to know each other? You know, to really kind of drop yourself into the moment and be the whole person that you are, absolutely and back to the conversation of it matters what room you're in, right, and who you're talking to. This is where you really have to calibrate, for how much do they understand the work that I'm doing, the jargon that I might use in that world? Right, do I need to translate some of this so that it makes sense and what level of detail might interest them. I'm going to speak very differently to an audience that's super familiar with the startup world then I am if I am speaking with some nonprofit funders, right, so really understanding kind of that check for comprehension, right the did they get that? And which of the things that I said sparked a little interest in their eyes that gives you those clues of where to take this conversation. You know, one of my favorite things to do is think about a personal aspect of myself that could then help me go down different professional roads. So, for example, one that I always really love to use is that I grew up on both sides of the Golden Gate Bridge. And that's true. I lived on one side of the bridge, I went to school on the other side of the bridge, and in fact, I spent my weekends over the Babbyage. I was constantly in cars on bridges. But what this does for me is it allows me to illuminate, depending on the room, my ability to literally bridge worlds. Now it's a bit of a literal metaphor, but it's a personal insight that then allows me to go, Okay. If I'm speaking to somebody as an actress, then I'm really able to talk about how I feel a facility in moving between characters. If I'm speaking with somebody about this podcast, then my interest from a young age of really merging worlds. So finding some of those little gems of your past that a friend would absolutely say, oh that's so cool, right, or oh it makes sense that that was a part of your story, those little gems can really help crack open bigger conversations. Well, and it goes back to the storied acting advice of show don't tell, right, because instead of telling someone I'm someone who can bridge worlds, You've found this fantastic little anecdote that gets that entire point across. I do the same thing that sometimes I mentioned that I climbed Kilimanjaro, or that I want marathons, but I would not consider myself a marathon nerve Like I am a slow and steady turtle who doesn't give up, right, And like that shows you who I am through a quirky and memorable anecdote, And I think those are the elements and that so tell me about yourself that makes it a conversation and A story is find the elements of your character, of who you are and why you care about things and what gets you out of bed every day, and get that across through these images and stories and metaphors. Don't just list the verbs and adjectives on a resume that says like I am hard working and multi disciplinary and I can execute Like that's not interesting. I think it's actually a really fun exercise. You know. Certainly our life graft tool that we mentioned in episode one oh two can be a really great base for this. But you might even ask a friend to listen to a quick recap of some details of your life and ask them to tell you kind of what stands out as unique or interesting or like, oh, so that's why you do that, or oh you would totally do that, and then you can kind of think about, well, what about that can directly sort of help open up part of my work. There's another tool that we love. You know you came across it in your research. I use it actually when I'm helping others figure out their personal brand, and we'll link to it in the show notes. It's this great workshop tool from PwC um that really helps you kind of step through each of these stages of discovery to identify what your personal brand might be. I mean, I I've mentioned this in previous episodes as well, on the three questions that I asked everyone when I had my first startup fail and I was trying to figure out what I should do next with myself, and and it really was quite simple. Um it was what do you come to me for when do you want my help? Um? Two was where do I stand out against my peers? Where am I really kind of head and shoulders above the rest? And three crucially, when have you seen me happiest? And those three answers, Yeah, those three answers really kind of gave me the data that I needed to say, like, oh, all of those things are true. And I didn't see that about myself because I'm in my head all day long. But that's again, that's what people are saying about me and when I'm not in the room. So if you're not sure and you don't know where to start on this, go and get some feedback, that's right. You know, we've mentioned this before that often the things that are your superpowers are the things that feel really really easy to you. And it really does help to have those around you shine a light on some of those and ask, you know. I also like really trusting yourself and your own creativity to play within this format. Like, for example, I really like personifying things in a way that sort of creates a clever umbrella around my unique skills. Certainly the phrase human ven diagram does that for us and and all of you on our show. Right. I used to call myself a one woman think tank when I was just like very much feeling like I was doing all of the things, and I was like, well, I think a friend was telling me that he was part of a think tank, and I was like, oh, ha ha, That's what I do all the time. And then I was like, well, why don't I kind of try personifying that. So my whole point here is to make sure that you're having fun with this and it feels playful and true to you, not like you're standing up in front of a lecture hall, right, having to speak at a podium out. I love that idea of like finding that image or that personification. I have a friend Njaliere who describes herself as an idea doula. Oh my god, is really interesting, right? That a way to kind of get across that she doesn't give you the ideas and you can't outsource them to her, but she can help you kind of grow them up and get them ready to be born um in a way that I think sometimes is hard to describe. Otherwise, I love that. I think even just the process of bringing to things together that aren't usually put together just says so much about your mind and your unique point of view. So that's going to be one of the through lines as we continue to talk about this today. Literally, how can you find your through lines? How can you crack this in a unique way? So let's take a question from a listener. We have one from our friend Spencer. Yes we do. Spencer is a voice over actor, a writer, a creative director, and a video editor. I mean, he's also a vintage dresser and a Disneyland enthusiast is and he also happens to be one of my favorite collaborators and brains. He's edited many of my own projects and fun fact, the videos for our podcast. I mean, he is an amazing editor, to be sure, but I can also speak to the vintage dressing and the Disneyland enthusiasm based off his amazing Instagram feed. Yes, check out at Dapper World Duo on Instagram. You're welcome. Okay, Spencer, what's your question? Hey, Kayden Christina. So here's my question. I often feel like my own human ven diagram nous might not come through in a first Russian without sounding like I'm bragging or like I'm a dilatant who just doesn't know what he wants to do. I was wondering what your thoughts would be on how a person could effectively communicates all the many circles of their own venn diagram when the meeting somebody, or do you think it's even necessary to do that in the first meeting? Is it better to just bring new skills to the table as they're needed. Thank you. That is such a great question, Spencer. So here's my first take at this. The best thing you can do is to connect the dots for the listener. You can't expect them to see how your work in one area translates to another, So your job is to give them that narrative right to synthesize this. So here's an example of how if I were in your shoes, I might connect all of those different things that you do. You could say, I work in the entertainment industry as a performer, creator, and editor, and what makes my work stand out is that I have experience telling stories from multiple angles, whether I'm in the recording studio as a voiceover actor or in post production as a video editor, or crafting that big picture as a writer and creative director. And my experiences in each of those roles they make me a better collaborator in the other ones. So you're getting all of those things you do across, but you're doing it in in a way that says I am better for having all of these multiple roles. Not I am a dilettante. Not I'm not good enough at any one of them to make a career out of it. It says by having these different skills, I am actually someone you want to work with. Even more, you know what I love about that, Christina, is even just as I was listening to you say it, it really shifted the power dynamic as I was listening to you. And this is another crew shoal idea that comes up in things like public speaking or performing, where even having a very brief motto like put yourself in my hands or let me illustrate for you, right, like a phrase that really says it's okay if you don't understand right away, I've already worked the logic in and I'm going to show you why my unique skill set connects together in this beautifully unique, in dynamic way. Another thing that I was thinking about Spencer's I was thinking about your body of work, and we talk about the word translate a lot on the show, but the word translator came up for me when I was thinking about your work. So, for example, in your work in voice over dubbing, you specialize in adapting translated dialogue literally right and researching the originating culture as you're putting a new language over words. As an editor, you've translated certainly my vision and many others to create a cohesive product. As a creative director and graphic designer, you're translating ideas into spot on visuals. All of your work really sits in this umbrella of language, from spoken to visual to code. It in the way that you can create websites from scratch. So thinking about a common trait like somebody whose love of language informs what they do in different ways, is also a great way to think about tying up all of the work in a way that feels communicatable. I love this. It's a way that says like, let me give you the thematic through line, rather than recite the function and the industry that I work in. I think so much of when we talk about our our work is I do this in that industry. I'm a object manager in healthcare. And you know, sometimes when you have changed jobs or changed industries, it can make sense as long as one of those stays put and only the other one changes. But when both change, or when they change too many times, that's when it starts feeling like the and and and you know, disease. And so instead of even approaching and and and and situation, turn the whole answer ninety degrees and find the theme, right, find the thematic talk about being a translator rather than the specific jobs. I I love this, Yeah, thank you. I really do think that it's a wonderful way also to create your own personal logic for yourself in a way that can be very empowering. Because when you're a translator, for example, right, and you can translate ideas into code or into visuals, etcetera, etcetera. That's a skill that can certainly apply across many many industries. By the way, there are a couple of great articles on this that we found. One is called ten Human Skills for the Future of Work and it lists some core strengths like complex problem solving, conflict resolution, and empathy mindset. Another is literally called List of Strengths for resumes, cover letters, and interviews. Yeah, definitely those can be helpful to look through as you mind your body of work for your own through lines. On that note, we have another listener question from Lynn we do. Lynn is a friend on Twitter. She's a longtime listener and she is pivoting her career toward product management. Her question to us was, how do you put your best foot forward on a resume or in person if you don't know the language of a new industry? Another great question, another really really great question. Certainly that is so ripe for all of us as we think about crossing industries. So, Christina, what are your thoughts on this? So I did this pretty dramatically my first couple of years right out of college, I worked in opera. I was at the Metropolitan Opera and a job called the rehearsal associate, which is like a niche within a niche. If you want to talk about translatable industry. And when I went to business school and I was starting to interview for summer positions, I was going to interview for consulting management consulting, which is nothing like opera. And I wasn't sure how to translate my experience that the met wrangling schedules and divas and animals, no joke, there are live animals on stage of the Metropolitan Opera. How do I make that clear that I should be giving management advice to fortune companies right? Like? This doesn't make sense at first glance. So what I did was I grabbed one of my fellow MBA students and I said, we're gonna put my resume down, We're not gonna look at it, and I'm just gonna tell you what I did in my job. We're going to talk about the content of what I did day in and day out, and you're gonna tell me the business jargon that I need to do to explain this to a business person instead of an opera person. And it took us about an hour, but in the end we got to it where she said, oh, you just you did operations and I was like, yes, yes, I did operations. Right, So I would say, you know, in the era of the Internet, not knowing the language of the world you want to enter is not okay, like you're totally forgiven for not knowing it off the bat, But it's out there and you can learn. So your job is to find either a person or a community. And this is one of the reasons I love Twitter. You can find that community and see how are they talking about their work, what is the jargon, the language, whatever it is, and how can I explain what I've done in their words rather than expect them to understand when I'm speaking in my kind of native tongue, if you will. And this is another place where stories are super helpful, because stories can demonstrate how your experience translates. Back to that show don't tell. I can tell you that I'm good with difficult personalities, or I can just tell you a story about how I got a certain opera singer to show up for rehearsal for which he was contractually obligated to do but did not feel like doing. And that will help you understand why I'm pretty confident I can do client management. Yes, I think there's a couple of things that we're really talking about here, Lynn, I think you're asked thing about the actual language, the actual jargon of the industry, which Christina, as that colleague of yours so beautifully helped you find with the word operations is so valuable. So I love that find someone who's already in the industry and have them help you with that translation. I think to your point to Christina about so much being available on the internet, I'm a really big fan of using skills that seem like they're just things that you do all the time to really help you here. So as a human ven Diagram, you are great at research, and this doesn't have to feel like an overwhelming deep dive. It can just be as simple as taking a look at the company's website. If you're looking at a company or different articles within the industry and looking for the key words and concepts that feel like they match those other areas that you have expertise in. So certainly project management is a perfect example of this. That is a set of skills that certainly can live in so many different industries. So I would really lean into your ability to learn new skills, your curiosity to really help you research. And the last thing I would say is to not be shy about being honest that you are new in this arena. That can really be part of your appeal. You know, I have definitely gotten jobs because I have a mix of different industries and backgrounds, and I'm going into an industry that's looking for fresh ideas and fresh perspectives. So I would really encourage you to own your newness and know that there's gold to be had in that as well, Sure, Christina. Another related question that we hear a lot is how do you help convince the future employer that even though you're new to an industry or even a style of work, like going from freelance to full time. How do you convince someone that you are equipped for it even though you might have what seems like a very different background. So say you've been, for example, working in hospitality for a while, and now you want to go right into tech. For one. If you're someone who's changed industries a couple of times, and I have my hand up high, my name is Christina, showing that you've done it before successfully is a really great way to demonstrate that you can do it again. You know, I have a track record of being able to kind of make these leaps from one world to the next and learn quickly as well as bring that outside perspective that demonstrates why a new person would be valuable. So that's kind of the easy one if this is your first time doing it. This is where coming back to those stories as well as kind of finding the kernels of what is consistent, whether they are skills, heart, technical skills, soft skills, the way is of communicating and collaborating that you bring to the table that will translate easily are really valuable. And sometimes it's just the confidence to say trust me, like put me in coach, I got this, you know. I remember one of one of my interviews during my MBA experience when they were pretty skeptical that my opera background had anything to do with what they were up to. I said, listen, I thrive from the high five that like, oh I love that. Yes, it was like the curtain goes up. We made everything happen like high five backstage. We did it. Guys. That drives me, and that was a way for me to help them understand that, like project based work is what is going to keep me excited and keep me going rather than the sort of every day looks a little bit like the day before that. I really like the cadence of the crunch time good away toward that deadline. Everything is on the line. Hitting that goal, big high five teamwork also crucial to get across in that example, and that that's what really is translatable, whether it's in opera or in I don't know, the beauty industry. Yeah. What I love about this is that switching industries really can be a hotbed for imposter syndrome, and I think it's so natural to feel vulnerability and even shame around this. It reminds me of this Joseph Campbell quote where he says the cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek. And what that means to me is, for example, when I was starting to work more as a writer and a copywriter, a constant strategist, producer, I used to really kind of hide the fact that I'm also an actress and job interviews. But you know, I had this thought where I was like, why am I hiding something that is such a source of passion for me. I really had to examine it, and I talked about this in episode one O two about how I made that connection between the ability to write in different voices, with the ability to form different characters. But to your point in the opera, Christina, also my ability to lead with empathy, perform in incredibly high stakes scenarios, ride the wave of uncertainty right, really start to unpack some of those overarching qualities that I was able to say, Yeah, I'm an actress, and that's why I'm going to bring value to this. And so I would say, for example, if you're going from a freelance creative industry to one that's full time, think about how you've been able to cultivate stability and a naturally unstable field, how you've been able to be both autonomous and collaborative. Really start to unpack these universal traits that have made you successful in a separate field up until now. Absolutely, I mean it really for me comes down to if you understand why you're making the switch, then you should be able to help someone else understand it. Potentially, what is coming up if you're struggling to help someone understand that connection is that you might not have done that work yet. You might not understand how your work translates. Maybe you just want to try something new, which is fine, totally but like that actually might be an opportunity for you to sit down and try to piece that narrative together first, because once you get it, you can help someone else connect those dots too, that's right. And if they don't get it, which there will definitely be people who don't, then fine, Right, you are on your train, and your train is going whether or not they're going to jump on board. This is the perfect test of are these your people? Yes? You know, like if they don't value the interdisciplinary nous that you bring to the role, then find someone who does, because that's part of your superpower. That's going to be part of why they want to hire you. And if they don't see it, this isn't it. Keep looking By the way, I was just saying this to a friend the other day that as someone who has a lot of different interests, I always love when I can eliminate an option. I really do. Like I've started to really enjoy that to say, oh, that's not my place, and that's okay. That's just helping me get closer to what is because the fact of the matter is you are not someone who is probably going to be happy being boxed in, right, Like that is what we are all about is not letting that happen. And so as you continue to, as you said, Christina, own your story, other people will want to read it. They really will. Okay, Now, I know a lot of you have been listening to our conversation and probably hopefully thinking, oh, this resonates, Yes I can do this, Yes I can work on that. And there are likely many of you who are thinking, yeah, Kate and Christina, but what do I put on my dang resume, website and or linked In? Let's talk some brass tacks here, shall we. Okay, this one is a hard one for sure. Um and I would kind of break apart those three different channels because they're actually a little bit different each of ye, they really are. So the problem with your website or LinkedIn is that there's only one version that lives on the internet. Right certainly with LinkedIn, I would say, Yeah, a resume you can tailor for different jobs, you can kind of keep, and I do keep one really long. It's like seven pages CV a full resume with all of the things that I've done your master resume. May I'm laughing because I was internally counting how many resumes I've made in my life. And then you know, I'll change which projects at each job I highlight, depending on or I might modify my language to be more stem focused or be more teaching focused, or you know, whatever it is depending on the job. Even change kind of the order of prioritization. Just small, right exactly, but LinkedIn and your website. You gotta put one version out there and that's all you have, at least for now. So here's how I would approach it. I think Lincoln can be really great for people who have a straightforward resume, since that's not us and I get a little bit frustrated with it sometimes, I have chosen to not use it like a traditional resume. I do not put the content of what I did at each job. Under each of my job listenings. I just list the job title and the company it's four and the dates, and then I include the blurb about what the company or nonprofit does, Like I just opped out of describing what I did. And the point is, I want this to be incomplete so that you have to look for a second source to get Yes, I love this idea of the bare bones approach. Yeah, I want you to look for, you know, a second source, whether that's sending me a message for a conversation, whether that's going to my website or googling me. I want you to keep going because on my website, I'm in control of the storytelling. And that's why I actually really support human diagrams having a personal website. First of all, you want to own your name on the Internet to the best extent you can, so that when people google you, you at least have some control over what pops up. And the best way to do that is to have a dot com or dot org or dot co or whatever you need to have, but to have your name and to build a website. And they're real easy platforms like squarespace that you can do this off of for super cheap without knowing how to code. But to have a website that says here is who I am, and here's how you can learn more. And there's a bunch of different ways you can go about it. There's one that will link to in the show notes a friend of the pod, former guest Sydney Skybetter. I think he does it brilliantly where he has a different page for each of the pieces of his ven diagram. Choreographer writer teacher, researcher, consultant. He has a different page for each one and is able to really kind of tailor what he tells you about that side of himself, assuming that's the piece that connects for you. So you're able to kind of have all of your experience on there without dumping it all on one page in the way that LinkedIn can sometimes force. But that's my what do you think, Kate? I really like that, you know, for me, because of my work, I've really had to sort of think about it in two categories. My work as an actor US, which also includes writing and directing, and then my work doing content strategy for for brands. So I actually I'm in the process of having two websites. And I know this sounds like, oh my gosh, double the work, double the fun, But really, you know what I started realizing, Christina, is that for my writing portfolio, I was really keeping that as a hidden page on my website. And by the way, I'm a big fan of hidden pages on websites because you can still link to them and share. So say there's a portfolio that you've curated just for one specific person or company, absolutely think about making that something that's just for your and their eyes only. There's no shame in that game. But what I started to realize is that as my sort of consulting and strategy work started expanding, that it really just made sense for me to put my content and my writing portfolios on one website, with that and my acting and directing work on a separate website. That's just what's worked for me and help me feel really streamlined, just because also what people want to see in each of those expressions of myself tend to be quite different. You know. I know that there's often a feeling of I just want to let my work speak for itself, right, And what I actually feel like is that's absolutely a great strategy for online. So for me, a website like Vimeo has been very valuable to really curate what are the things that I've created as a producer, writer and director and actress that I really want to sit there. So I've actually been thinking less about LinkedIn and more about Vimeo and my own personal portfolio. So I think the point is is this is a moving organism, and you are behind the wheel here. You can really by how much you choose to include on each platform, you can really help guide people to the one that you want them to be on. You can and you can decide, do I want people to see that one unified theory of me, you know, with all of my pieces, or like you're doing, Kate, do I want to have kind of a different homepage for each of them? And there's no right answer. It really just depends on how you want to position yourself. Yeah, and by the way, because we live in the world of the Internet and everything is searchable, I do want to say that I feel very much at comfort with all of my portfolio being available to everybody because it makes sense to me. Right. This has just sort of helped me have this drawer for these projects and this drawer for those projects. Those could be different pages or different websites altogether, and only you know what's going to feel right to you. So tell us about yourself. How are you navigating speaking about your human ven diagram nous We love hearing from you. You can reach us on Twitter or Instagram at t L d n E pod or you can email us at Hello at t L d n E podcast dot com, or you can leave us a voicemail at eight three three High, t L d n E that's eight three three four for a five three six three, then dial eight oh three and we'll link to the p w C Personal Brand Workbook, the Core Strength articles we mentioned, relevant past episodes, and even our own links so you can see how we are cracking this. You'll find all of those at tldny podcast dot com slash. Thanks so much to our producer Maya Coole, and to you for tuning in. As always, please subscribe, rate, and review on Apple podcasts if you like what you heard, it really helps us get the word out to fellow human ven diagrams. Until next time, remember the limit does not exist. The Limit does not Exist is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you look into your favorite shows. Yeah

Hey, everybody, just an f y I. We recorded this episode before we were in a pandemic. We thought that my beautiful context for you indeed, but we hope it still brings you inside and inspiration during this challenging time. Hanging there. The Limit Does Not Exist is a production of I Heart Radio. Hey, I'm Christina Wallace and I'm Kate Scott Campbell, and you're listening to the Limit does Not Exist. A podcast for human ven Diagrams, coming at you every single week and hosted by us. Welcome back to our virtual office. We're here with our second installment of Office Hours, in which we tackle your big questions and common human ven Diagram challenges. Today, we're helping you talk about yourself. How do you explain who you are and what you do in a way that makes sense to others and even more importantly to you as you navigate interviews, parties, and first impressions of all kinds. We're here to help you present your myriad skills as the highly valuable package that they are, and not as something that you need to downplay or hide in a closet on the internet somewhere. We'll help you reverse engineer the whole process by identifying your personal through lines, translatable skills, and yes, your personal brand will even break down brass tacks like what the heck to put on your website. So, whether you're gearing up to change careers, move into a new industry, or you just want to feel comfortable and confident about all of the pieces of your story, You've come to the right office. So let's jump in, shall we. Let's do it. So Christina, tell me about yourself. Oh my gosh, is there a more dreaded question or diagrams? I don't think they're is that question? Is just all of the prickliness that comes with I feel every guest we've had on the show hasn't deer in the headlights look the second we we asked them that. I mean, whether it's like a job interview, or it's a networking event, or it could just be like meeting someone new at a dinner party. Yes, this question can feel like such a landmine, right because at its core, it's about how do you show who you are as a whole person without coming across its fifty whole people? Yeah, without just like listing out your whole resume, right, Like, it's such a fine line to tow but it's so powerful when you get it right. Well, it's absolutely right, And it's a great place for us to start in this episode because you know, it really kind of opens up everything, all of the feelings and fears that come up with how do I talk about myself off in a way that will make sense to you person? And I think, Christina, something that I really like to do is when you hear a question like that, so tell me about yourself, I like to kind of unpack it. So first ask what is this question really about? Like it's a way of getting to know you. I feel like this question is just one of those things that's kind of perpetuated in our culture because it's kind of like I don't know where to begin, so why don't you just begin somewhere? You know, And they're putting the onus on you to pick off the conversation. And at the very least here in New York and a fair number of other major cities I've lived in, your job is a proxy for who you are, which is like not actually a true statement, but it's how people start to get to know you. That's not true in all cultures, but I think in the US, and certainly on the East Coast. The job as a starting point for conversation is a really natural, easy place to start, but it can feel really problematic when you don't have just one job. Well that's really interesting. Yeah. It actually reminds me of when I was in college. I was in a sorority and we had, of course sorority rush, and the proxy there was where you from? What dorm do you live in? And I remember, and I remember that this girl came through on the second or third day of rush and on her T shirt she wrote her name, where she was from, and what dorm she lived in. And I sat down with her and she said, Okay, now that you know all of that, let's talk about some fun stuff. And I was just amazed by her. Did you like that or was it did it feel like a little aggressive? Well, you know, I thought it was really clever, because at that point I was so tired of asking those questions as starters. And I think that's another thing to really think about, right, is that at the baseline here, what is hopefully going to happen in an interview or a dinner party or a networking event, is that there will be a human connection. If you're asked this question tell me about yourself in an interview, they already have your resume, and if you're asked it in a social setting, they can look at your portfolio online later. So I think you can really help to take the pressure off and that very sort of inorganic aspect to this question by really releasing yourself from needing to be a resume and find some other ways in So let's talk about what a few of those are. A few of those sort of sparks to answer this question. So I like to think of this is less about the like let me tell you about my entire work history, and more about let me sort of share my personal brand. Now, some people are going to cringe that phrase, and I get it, believe me, I do. However, it's a good shorthand for saying, let me tell you about what matters to me and the types of work I'm doing or the thing that I'm putting out in the world, because that's ultimately what I think a personal brand comes down to. I don't remember who actually originally said this, but it's a phrase that I refer to a lot when I'm doing personal brand consulting. Is that marketing is what you say about yourself, and brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room. That's really interesting because I think that term personal brand can sound so like far away. It can I feel so over there when you're meeting. You know, if you're introducing your friend to someone new, what are the first things that come to mind when you're about to introduce them. If I'm like, hey, this is Kate. She is I'm making this up off the fly, so do not hold me to this later, I am watch she is this dynamite multi hyphen its storyteller and creator who I have been collaborating with for several years and just is a obsessed with how do we tell great stories, particularly to get women and girls really excited about things like math and stem and technology and owning their future. That's your brand to me, based on what I know about you and how we've interacted. That might not be your brand as an actress in l A, but in our work, that's how I talk about you when you're not in the room. By the way, so what's helpful in personal brand work is sort of figuring out how you would want to be mentioned or discussed when you're not in the room, what are the pieces that you would put together? And part of that is based on your purpose, your why, what do you care about? And part of that is based on what is the actual work that you do that you want to contribute to that purpose that why? Yeah, I think you bring up a really great point, Christina, to which, of course is built in and that is, of course, this depends on what room you're in and who you're walking with, and so there's some calibration there. I love that point about how would you want people to talk about you? And it can feel, i know, really overwhelming to say those things about yourself, and it's often can be easier to say, oh, I am my own fake assistant advocating for myself, rather than myself advocating for myself. And so something that I really like to do is I really like to think about including both personal and professional information and really thinking of a launch point that I don't need to answer every possible piece of that question. I just need to get the conversation started and we can go from there. The number one thing you want someone to say after you've answered that question is oh, tell me more, because that gives you that opportunity to go into those details. If, on the other hand, you have dominated the airspace by just you know, dumping up paragraph of information on them and their response to that is oh, and then they turned to the person on the other side of them at the dinner table. That's not a good thing, right. So this actually brings me to one of my favorite public speaking tips is that whenever you're giving a speech, you can really think about it as a conversation, right, even if you are the only one speaking, and certainly in this situation, you are literally in a conversation, even if you are the one who's talking about yourself. At the moment, you're still calibrating did they get that right? It's this really a two way street. Are we two human beings here getting to know each other? You know, to really kind of drop yourself into the moment and be the whole person that you are, absolutely and back to the conversation of it matters what room you're in, right, and who you're talking to. This is where you really have to calibrate, for how much do they understand the work that I'm doing, the jargon that I might use in that world? Right, do I need to translate some of this so that it makes sense and what level of detail might interest them. I'm going to speak very differently to an audience that's super familiar with the startup world then I am if I am speaking with some nonprofit funders, right, so really understanding kind of that check for comprehension, right the did they get that? And which of the things that I said sparked a little interest in their eyes that gives you those clues of where to take this conversation. You know, one of my favorite things to do is think about a personal aspect of myself that could then help me go down different professional roads. So, for example, one that I always really love to use is that I grew up on both sides of the Golden Gate Bridge. And that's true. I lived on one side of the bridge, I went to school on the other side of the bridge, and in fact, I spent my weekends over the Babbyage. I was constantly in cars on bridges. But what this does for me is it allows me to illuminate, depending on the room, my ability to literally bridge worlds. Now it's a bit of a literal metaphor, but it's a personal insight that then allows me to go, Okay. If I'm speaking to somebody as an actress, then I'm really able to talk about how I feel a facility in moving between characters. If I'm speaking with somebody about this podcast, then my interest from a young age of really merging worlds. So finding some of those little gems of your past that a friend would absolutely say, oh that's so cool, right, or oh it makes sense that that was a part of your story, those little gems can really help crack open bigger conversations. Well, and it goes back to the storied acting advice of show don't tell, right, because instead of telling someone I'm someone who can bridge worlds, You've found this fantastic little anecdote that gets that entire point across. I do the same thing that sometimes I mentioned that I climbed Kilimanjaro, or that I want marathons, but I would not consider myself a marathon nerve Like I am a slow and steady turtle who doesn't give up, right, And like that shows you who I am through a quirky and memorable anecdote, And I think those are the elements and that so tell me about yourself that makes it a conversation and A story is find the elements of your character, of who you are and why you care about things and what gets you out of bed every day, and get that across through these images and stories and metaphors. Don't just list the verbs and adjectives on a resume that says like I am hard working and multi disciplinary and I can execute Like that's not interesting. I think it's actually a really fun exercise. You know. Certainly our life graft tool that we mentioned in episode one oh two can be a really great base for this. But you might even ask a friend to listen to a quick recap of some details of your life and ask them to tell you kind of what stands out as unique or interesting or like, oh, so that's why you do that, or oh you would totally do that, and then you can kind of think about, well, what about that can directly sort of help open up part of my work. There's another tool that we love. You know you came across it in your research. I use it actually when I'm helping others figure out their personal brand, and we'll link to it in the show notes. It's this great workshop tool from PwC um that really helps you kind of step through each of these stages of discovery to identify what your personal brand might be. I mean, I I've mentioned this in previous episodes as well, on the three questions that I asked everyone when I had my first startup fail and I was trying to figure out what I should do next with myself, and and it really was quite simple. Um it was what do you come to me for when do you want my help? Um? Two was where do I stand out against my peers? Where am I really kind of head and shoulders above the rest? And three crucially, when have you seen me happiest? And those three answers, Yeah, those three answers really kind of gave me the data that I needed to say, like, oh, all of those things are true. And I didn't see that about myself because I'm in my head all day long. But that's again, that's what people are saying about me and when I'm not in the room. So if you're not sure and you don't know where to start on this, go and get some feedback, that's right. You know, we've mentioned this before that often the things that are your superpowers are the things that feel really really easy to you. And it really does help to have those around you shine a light on some of those and ask, you know. I also like really trusting yourself and your own creativity to play within this format. Like, for example, I really like personifying things in a way that sort of creates a clever umbrella around my unique skills. Certainly the phrase human ven diagram does that for us and and all of you on our show. Right. I used to call myself a one woman think tank when I was just like very much feeling like I was doing all of the things, and I was like, well, I think a friend was telling me that he was part of a think tank, and I was like, oh, ha ha, That's what I do all the time. And then I was like, well, why don't I kind of try personifying that. So my whole point here is to make sure that you're having fun with this and it feels playful and true to you, not like you're standing up in front of a lecture hall, right, having to speak at a podium out. I love that idea of like finding that image or that personification. I have a friend Njaliere who describes herself as an idea doula. Oh my god, is really interesting, right? That a way to kind of get across that she doesn't give you the ideas and you can't outsource them to her, but she can help you kind of grow them up and get them ready to be born um in a way that I think sometimes is hard to describe. Otherwise, I love that. I think even just the process of bringing to things together that aren't usually put together just says so much about your mind and your unique point of view. So that's going to be one of the through lines as we continue to talk about this today. Literally, how can you find your through lines? How can you crack this in a unique way? So let's take a question from a listener. We have one from our friend Spencer. Yes we do. Spencer is a voice over actor, a writer, a creative director, and a video editor. I mean, he's also a vintage dresser and a Disneyland enthusiast is and he also happens to be one of my favorite collaborators and brains. He's edited many of my own projects and fun fact, the videos for our podcast. I mean, he is an amazing editor, to be sure, but I can also speak to the vintage dressing and the Disneyland enthusiasm based off his amazing Instagram feed. Yes, check out at Dapper World Duo on Instagram. You're welcome. Okay, Spencer, what's your question? Hey, Kayden Christina. So here's my question. I often feel like my own human ven diagram nous might not come through in a first Russian without sounding like I'm bragging or like I'm a dilatant who just doesn't know what he wants to do. I was wondering what your thoughts would be on how a person could effectively communicates all the many circles of their own venn diagram when the meeting somebody, or do you think it's even necessary to do that in the first meeting? Is it better to just bring new skills to the table as they're needed. Thank you. That is such a great question, Spencer. So here's my first take at this. The best thing you can do is to connect the dots for the listener. You can't expect them to see how your work in one area translates to another, So your job is to give them that narrative right to synthesize this. So here's an example of how if I were in your shoes, I might connect all of those different things that you do. You could say, I work in the entertainment industry as a performer, creator, and editor, and what makes my work stand out is that I have experience telling stories from multiple angles, whether I'm in the recording studio as a voiceover actor or in post production as a video editor, or crafting that big picture as a writer and creative director. And my experiences in each of those roles they make me a better collaborator in the other ones. So you're getting all of those things you do across, but you're doing it in in a way that says I am better for having all of these multiple roles. Not I am a dilettante. Not I'm not good enough at any one of them to make a career out of it. It says by having these different skills, I am actually someone you want to work with. Even more, you know what I love about that, Christina, is even just as I was listening to you say it, it really shifted the power dynamic as I was listening to you. And this is another crew shoal idea that comes up in things like public speaking or performing, where even having a very brief motto like put yourself in my hands or let me illustrate for you, right, like a phrase that really says it's okay if you don't understand right away, I've already worked the logic in and I'm going to show you why my unique skill set connects together in this beautifully unique, in dynamic way. Another thing that I was thinking about Spencer's I was thinking about your body of work, and we talk about the word translate a lot on the show, but the word translator came up for me when I was thinking about your work. So, for example, in your work in voice over dubbing, you specialize in adapting translated dialogue literally right and researching the originating culture as you're putting a new language over words. As an editor, you've translated certainly my vision and many others to create a cohesive product. As a creative director and graphic designer, you're translating ideas into spot on visuals. All of your work really sits in this umbrella of language, from spoken to visual to code. It in the way that you can create websites from scratch. So thinking about a common trait like somebody whose love of language informs what they do in different ways, is also a great way to think about tying up all of the work in a way that feels communicatable. I love this. It's a way that says like, let me give you the thematic through line, rather than recite the function and the industry that I work in. I think so much of when we talk about our our work is I do this in that industry. I'm a object manager in healthcare. And you know, sometimes when you have changed jobs or changed industries, it can make sense as long as one of those stays put and only the other one changes. But when both change, or when they change too many times, that's when it starts feeling like the and and and you know, disease. And so instead of even approaching and and and and situation, turn the whole answer ninety degrees and find the theme, right, find the thematic talk about being a translator rather than the specific jobs. I I love this, Yeah, thank you. I really do think that it's a wonderful way also to create your own personal logic for yourself in a way that can be very empowering. Because when you're a translator, for example, right, and you can translate ideas into code or into visuals, etcetera, etcetera. That's a skill that can certainly apply across many many industries. By the way, there are a couple of great articles on this that we found. One is called ten Human Skills for the Future of Work and it lists some core strengths like complex problem solving, conflict resolution, and empathy mindset. Another is literally called List of Strengths for resumes, cover letters, and interviews. Yeah, definitely those can be helpful to look through as you mind your body of work for your own through lines. On that note, we have another listener question from Lynn we do. Lynn is a friend on Twitter. She's a longtime listener and she is pivoting her career toward product management. Her question to us was, how do you put your best foot forward on a resume or in person if you don't know the language of a new industry? Another great question, another really really great question. Certainly that is so ripe for all of us as we think about crossing industries. So, Christina, what are your thoughts on this? So I did this pretty dramatically my first couple of years right out of college, I worked in opera. I was at the Metropolitan Opera and a job called the rehearsal associate, which is like a niche within a niche. If you want to talk about translatable industry. And when I went to business school and I was starting to interview for summer positions, I was going to interview for consulting management consulting, which is nothing like opera. And I wasn't sure how to translate my experience that the met wrangling schedules and divas and animals, no joke, there are live animals on stage of the Metropolitan Opera. How do I make that clear that I should be giving management advice to fortune companies right? Like? This doesn't make sense at first glance. So what I did was I grabbed one of my fellow MBA students and I said, we're gonna put my resume down, We're not gonna look at it, and I'm just gonna tell you what I did in my job. We're going to talk about the content of what I did day in and day out, and you're gonna tell me the business jargon that I need to do to explain this to a business person instead of an opera person. And it took us about an hour, but in the end we got to it where she said, oh, you just you did operations and I was like, yes, yes, I did operations. Right, So I would say, you know, in the era of the Internet, not knowing the language of the world you want to enter is not okay, like you're totally forgiven for not knowing it off the bat, But it's out there and you can learn. So your job is to find either a person or a community. And this is one of the reasons I love Twitter. You can find that community and see how are they talking about their work, what is the jargon, the language, whatever it is, and how can I explain what I've done in their words rather than expect them to understand when I'm speaking in my kind of native tongue, if you will. And this is another place where stories are super helpful, because stories can demonstrate how your experience translates. Back to that show don't tell. I can tell you that I'm good with difficult personalities, or I can just tell you a story about how I got a certain opera singer to show up for rehearsal for which he was contractually obligated to do but did not feel like doing. And that will help you understand why I'm pretty confident I can do client management. Yes, I think there's a couple of things that we're really talking about here, Lynn, I think you're asked thing about the actual language, the actual jargon of the industry, which Christina, as that colleague of yours so beautifully helped you find with the word operations is so valuable. So I love that find someone who's already in the industry and have them help you with that translation. I think to your point to Christina about so much being available on the internet, I'm a really big fan of using skills that seem like they're just things that you do all the time to really help you here. So as a human ven Diagram, you are great at research, and this doesn't have to feel like an overwhelming deep dive. It can just be as simple as taking a look at the company's website. If you're looking at a company or different articles within the industry and looking for the key words and concepts that feel like they match those other areas that you have expertise in. So certainly project management is a perfect example of this. That is a set of skills that certainly can live in so many different industries. So I would really lean into your ability to learn new skills, your curiosity to really help you research. And the last thing I would say is to not be shy about being honest that you are new in this arena. That can really be part of your appeal. You know, I have definitely gotten jobs because I have a mix of different industries and backgrounds, and I'm going into an industry that's looking for fresh ideas and fresh perspectives. So I would really encourage you to own your newness and know that there's gold to be had in that as well, Sure, Christina. Another related question that we hear a lot is how do you help convince the future employer that even though you're new to an industry or even a style of work, like going from freelance to full time. How do you convince someone that you are equipped for it even though you might have what seems like a very different background. So say you've been, for example, working in hospitality for a while, and now you want to go right into tech. For one. If you're someone who's changed industries a couple of times, and I have my hand up high, my name is Christina, showing that you've done it before successfully is a really great way to demonstrate that you can do it again. You know, I have a track record of being able to kind of make these leaps from one world to the next and learn quickly as well as bring that outside perspective that demonstrates why a new person would be valuable. So that's kind of the easy one if this is your first time doing it. This is where coming back to those stories as well as kind of finding the kernels of what is consistent, whether they are skills, heart, technical skills, soft skills, the way is of communicating and collaborating that you bring to the table that will translate easily are really valuable. And sometimes it's just the confidence to say trust me, like put me in coach, I got this, you know. I remember one of one of my interviews during my MBA experience when they were pretty skeptical that my opera background had anything to do with what they were up to. I said, listen, I thrive from the high five that like, oh I love that. Yes, it was like the curtain goes up. We made everything happen like high five backstage. We did it. Guys. That drives me, and that was a way for me to help them understand that, like project based work is what is going to keep me excited and keep me going rather than the sort of every day looks a little bit like the day before that. I really like the cadence of the crunch time good away toward that deadline. Everything is on the line. Hitting that goal, big high five teamwork also crucial to get across in that example, and that that's what really is translatable, whether it's in opera or in I don't know, the beauty industry. Yeah. What I love about this is that switching industries really can be a hotbed for imposter syndrome, and I think it's so natural to feel vulnerability and even shame around this. It reminds me of this Joseph Campbell quote where he says the cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek. And what that means to me is, for example, when I was starting to work more as a writer and a copywriter, a constant strategist, producer, I used to really kind of hide the fact that I'm also an actress and job interviews. But you know, I had this thought where I was like, why am I hiding something that is such a source of passion for me. I really had to examine it, and I talked about this in episode one O two about how I made that connection between the ability to write in different voices, with the ability to form different characters. But to your point in the opera, Christina, also my ability to lead with empathy, perform in incredibly high stakes scenarios, ride the wave of uncertainty right, really start to unpack some of those overarching qualities that I was able to say, Yeah, I'm an actress, and that's why I'm going to bring value to this. And so I would say, for example, if you're going from a freelance creative industry to one that's full time, think about how you've been able to cultivate stability and a naturally unstable field, how you've been able to be both autonomous and collaborative. Really start to unpack these universal traits that have made you successful in a separate field up until now. Absolutely, I mean it really for me comes down to if you understand why you're making the switch, then you should be able to help someone else understand it. Potentially, what is coming up if you're struggling to help someone understand that connection is that you might not have done that work yet. You might not understand how your work translates. Maybe you just want to try something new, which is fine, totally but like that actually might be an opportunity for you to sit down and try to piece that narrative together first, because once you get it, you can help someone else connect those dots too, that's right. And if they don't get it, which there will definitely be people who don't, then fine, Right, you are on your train, and your train is going whether or not they're going to jump on board. This is the perfect test of are these your people? Yes? You know, like if they don't value the interdisciplinary nous that you bring to the role, then find someone who does, because that's part of your superpower. That's going to be part of why they want to hire you. And if they don't see it, this isn't it. Keep looking By the way, I was just saying this to a friend the other day that as someone who has a lot of different interests, I always love when I can eliminate an option. I really do. Like I've started to really enjoy that to say, oh, that's not my place, and that's okay. That's just helping me get closer to what is because the fact of the matter is you are not someone who is probably going to be happy being boxed in, right, Like that is what we are all about is not letting that happen. And so as you continue to, as you said, Christina, own your story, other people will want to read it. They really will. Okay, Now, I know a lot of you have been listening to our conversation and probably hopefully thinking, oh, this resonates, Yes I can do this, Yes I can work on that. And there are likely many of you who are thinking, yeah, Kate and Christina, but what do I put on my dang resume, website and or linked In? Let's talk some brass tacks here, shall we. Okay, this one is a hard one for sure. Um and I would kind of break apart those three different channels because they're actually a little bit different each of ye, they really are. So the problem with your website or LinkedIn is that there's only one version that lives on the internet. Right certainly with LinkedIn, I would say, Yeah, a resume you can tailor for different jobs, you can kind of keep, and I do keep one really long. It's like seven pages CV a full resume with all of the things that I've done your master resume. May I'm laughing because I was internally counting how many resumes I've made in my life. And then you know, I'll change which projects at each job I highlight, depending on or I might modify my language to be more stem focused or be more teaching focused, or you know, whatever it is depending on the job. Even change kind of the order of prioritization. Just small, right exactly, but LinkedIn and your website. You gotta put one version out there and that's all you have, at least for now. So here's how I would approach it. I think Lincoln can be really great for people who have a straightforward resume, since that's not us and I get a little bit frustrated with it sometimes, I have chosen to not use it like a traditional resume. I do not put the content of what I did at each job. Under each of my job listenings. I just list the job title and the company it's four and the dates, and then I include the blurb about what the company or nonprofit does, Like I just opped out of describing what I did. And the point is, I want this to be incomplete so that you have to look for a second source to get Yes, I love this idea of the bare bones approach. Yeah, I want you to look for, you know, a second source, whether that's sending me a message for a conversation, whether that's going to my website or googling me. I want you to keep going because on my website, I'm in control of the storytelling. And that's why I actually really support human diagrams having a personal website. First of all, you want to own your name on the Internet to the best extent you can, so that when people google you, you at least have some control over what pops up. And the best way to do that is to have a dot com or dot org or dot co or whatever you need to have, but to have your name and to build a website. And they're real easy platforms like squarespace that you can do this off of for super cheap without knowing how to code. But to have a website that says here is who I am, and here's how you can learn more. And there's a bunch of different ways you can go about it. There's one that will link to in the show notes a friend of the pod, former guest Sydney Skybetter. I think he does it brilliantly where he has a different page for each of the pieces of his ven diagram. Choreographer writer teacher, researcher, consultant. He has a different page for each one and is able to really kind of tailor what he tells you about that side of himself, assuming that's the piece that connects for you. So you're able to kind of have all of your experience on there without dumping it all on one page in the way that LinkedIn can sometimes force. But that's my what do you think, Kate? I really like that, you know, for me, because of my work, I've really had to sort of think about it in two categories. My work as an actor US, which also includes writing and directing, and then my work doing content strategy for for brands. So I actually I'm in the process of having two websites. And I know this sounds like, oh my gosh, double the work, double the fun, But really, you know what I started realizing, Christina, is that for my writing portfolio, I was really keeping that as a hidden page on my website. And by the way, I'm a big fan of hidden pages on websites because you can still link to them and share. So say there's a portfolio that you've curated just for one specific person or company, absolutely think about making that something that's just for your and their eyes only. There's no shame in that game. But what I started to realize is that as my sort of consulting and strategy work started expanding, that it really just made sense for me to put my content and my writing portfolios on one website, with that and my acting and directing work on a separate website. That's just what's worked for me and help me feel really streamlined, just because also what people want to see in each of those expressions of myself tend to be quite different. You know. I know that there's often a feeling of I just want to let my work speak for itself, right, And what I actually feel like is that's absolutely a great strategy for online. So for me, a website like Vimeo has been very valuable to really curate what are the things that I've created as a producer, writer and director and actress that I really want to sit there. So I've actually been thinking less about LinkedIn and more about Vimeo and my own personal portfolio. So I think the point is is this is a moving organism, and you are behind the wheel here. You can really by how much you choose to include on each platform, you can really help guide people to the one that you want them to be on. You can and you can decide, do I want people to see that one unified theory of me, you know, with all of my pieces, or like you're doing, Kate, do I want to have kind of a different homepage for each of them? And there's no right answer. It really just depends on how you want to position yourself. Yeah, and by the way, because we live in the world of the Internet and everything is searchable, I do want to say that I feel very much at comfort with all of my portfolio being available to everybody because it makes sense to me. Right. This has just sort of helped me have this drawer for these projects and this drawer for those projects. Those could be different pages or different websites altogether, and only you know what's going to feel right to you. So tell us about yourself. How are you navigating speaking about your human ven diagram nous We love hearing from you. You can reach us on Twitter or Instagram at t L d n E pod or you can email us at Hello at t L d n E podcast dot com, or you can leave us a voicemail at eight three three High, t L d n E that's eight three three four for a five three six three, then dial eight oh three and we'll link to the p w C Personal Brand Workbook, the Core Strength articles we mentioned, relevant past episodes, and even our own links so you can see how we are cracking this. You'll find all of those at tldny podcast dot com slash. Thanks so much to our producer Maya Coole, and to you for tuning in. As always, please subscribe, rate, and review on Apple podcasts if you like what you heard, it really helps us get the word out to fellow human ven diagrams. Until next time, remember the limit does not exist. The Limit does not Exist is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you look into your favorite shows. Yeah