The Learning & Development PodcastThe Learning & Development Podcast

Workflow Learning & The 5 Moments Of Need With Bob Mosher

View descriptionShare

According to Bob Mosher, Workflow Learning is "learning that occurs while I do my job" - not when I stop work to engage in learning content like when we attend a course, complete e-learning, log into a webinar or other ‘learning activity’. It’s performance-focused and is measured in terms of its ability to deliver results. 

This conversation unpacks this, along with the 5 Moments of Need framework, and is a fascinating exploration of L&D practice that makes real difference.


  • The danger of “training” is that there’s so much baggage in terms of what that word means, and what it has meant in the past.


  • The Five Moments Of Need are:
    • New
    • More
    • Change
    • Solve
    • Apply


  • Designing for the moment of apply is hugely different from the current approach of content-driven learning. It’s equal to the question of “are we learning to swim, or are we learning not to drown?”


  • Happiness in learning does not always equate to a leap in performance. As trainers and developers, we need to remember that. 


  • We must make sure that we understand that failures in the classroom is a legacy problem. It has become overburdened, and is not good at the main purpose for which it has been designed. 


  • When you are done with your deliverables, and you look back on the effect that it has had on the workforce, if they have not enabled learners to perform effectively on their own in the workflow, it has failed, because transfer and sustain did not happen.


  • Performance support needs to be re-evaluated by the industry as a whole. It is a discipline, it’s not a thing.


  • If you want to shift to performance first, but you build training first, you will never have time to build performance assets.


  • We need to orchestrate the asset appropriately, not just for the thing it solves, but the way in which it solves it.


  • Workflow learning is consumed while doing the work, guiding learners along so that ultimately they perform while learning. By far, the most effective form of learning Bob has seen is trial and error.



  • ‘We’ve got to get out of the training business’
  • ‘I am a performance architect’
  • ’The sweet spot of learning and development is the moment of apply’
  • ‘What is the deep end like for a learner?’
  • ‘Carpentry is not a hammer. Surgery is not a scalpel'



Bob Mosher is a genuine Thought-Leader in L&D and Chief Learning Evangelist, at The 5 Moments of Need™, an organisation that specialises in helping learning professionals design, develop, and measure effective learning and performance support through the 5 Moments design methodology.

Bob has been an active and influential leader in the learning and training industry for over 30 years and is renowned worldwide for his pioneering role in new approaches to learning.

You can follow and connect with Bob via:




Performance Matters Podcast:



David James

David has been a People Development professional for more than 20 years, most notably as Director of Talent, Learning & OD for The Walt Disney Company across Europe, the Middle East & Africa.

As well as being the Chief Learning Strategist at Looop, David is a prominent writer and speaker on topics around modern and digital L&D as well as an active member of the CIPD L&D Advisory Board.


  • Twitter:
  • LinkedIn:


  • Facebook
  • X (Twitter)
  • WhatsApp
  • Email
  • Download

In 1 playlist(s)

  1. The Learning & Development Podcast

    147 clip(s)

The Learning & Development Podcast

This is a fortnightly topical podcast show for L&D professionals hosted by David James and presented 
Social links
Follow podcast
Recent clips
Browse 147 clip(s)