Judge David Ashton Lewis, introduced as a Supreme Court Judge, returns to the Radio 4CRB studio for the second part of his conversation with host Colin on Australian federation. After looking at the history in earlier episodes, they turn to where we stand today. Is the system working, does it need a poke or a prod, or should it be scrapped altogether?

The Judge argues that Australia should keep its parliamentary democracy but never treat it as "set in stone". Along the way he talks about the dismissal of the Whitlam government, what politicians owe all Australians, and immigration and multiculturalism, where he shares some strong personal opinions. He also makes the case for federal control in national emergencies such as COVID and wartime, using Section 109 of the Constitution as an example. Colin adds thoughts on duplicated services and daylight saving.

It's a lively, plain-spoken chat for anyone who has wondered how the states and the Commonwealth fit together. Listeners may not agree with every view, but the Judge's challenge is a good one: learn where we came from first, then decide where we go next. The views expressed are those of the guest.

Guest(s): Judge David Ashton Lewis, Supreme Court Judge (as introduced in the recording). Host: Colin.

Topics:

• [00:00] Welcome and recap of the federation series. Today's question is whether it is working, needs reform or should be scrapped.
• [00:45] Why the Judge would never abandon the current system. He rejects rule by business, dictatorship and "Fabians" as alternatives.
• [02:10] Democracy as something open to review, and the problem with one-party states.
• [03:56] The 1975 dismissal of the Whitlam government. The Judge calls it a Governor-General using a reserve power, not a coup.
• [06:01] Governments as "servants of all Australians", and criticism of politicians more concerned with keeping their seats.
• [07:38] The Judge's views on immigration, postwar migration and his proposed orientation programs for new arrivals.
• [11:04] A story about his sister, a school principal in Melbourne's outer west, and the experiences of Turkish parents.
• [12:56] The Judge questions multiculturalism and ethnic enclaves, and relays his sister's recent London experience.
• [13:44] Why he'd defend parliamentary democracy, and the Churchill line about the "worst form of government".
• [15:34] How federation works in practice: the states and the Commonwealth, COVID responses and nuclear energy.
• [16:54] Federal versus unitary government. The Judge argues for national control in emergencies, citing Curtin's wartime government and Section 109 of the Constitution.
• [20:46] Being both a Queenslander and an Australian, COVID and war as times for national control, and daylight saving as a state matter.
• [22:25] Duplicated services and possible savings from single police, ambulance, education and health systems.
• [23:10] Why understanding history matters, with a reading suggestion on the federation debates.
• [25:31] Wrap-up, a hint of a third episode, and how to contact the station.

Memorable quotes:

• "I would certainly never support getting rid of it completely, because what's the alternative?" [00:45]
• "Democracy is the worst form of government, other than all the other forms that have been tried." [14:41]
• "Australia is too big to be governed from Canberra, telling people in Perth what to do." [16:54]
• "In times like COVID or war, being a Queenslander is out the door. You're an Australian." [20:46]
• "If you don't know where you've come from, you'll have little understanding of where you are." [23:10]

Mentioned in the interview (people, organisations, events, dates, websites, phone numbers):

• Gough Whitlam and Malcolm Fraser, and the 1975 dismissal of the Whitlam government (the Governor-General's reserve power)
• Bob Hawke, quoted on governing for all Australians
• Anthony Albanese and the Labor Party
• Winston Churchill, on democracy
• Edmund Burke, quoted (the Judge places this at Westminster in 1793)
• John Curtin and the 1941–45 wartime government
• Sir Edmund Barton and Alfred Deakin (transcribed as "Deacon"), suggested reading on the federation debates
• Section 109 of the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Australia
• Andrew "Twiggy" Forrest and Gina Rinehart (spellings to be checked), mentioned as examples of business leaders
• Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin, mentioned as examples of one-party or authoritarian rule
• Hilton, a previous show co-host, and a show about 14 years ago
• The COVID pandemic, the Queensland government's stance on nuclear energy, and daylight saving
• Email: mail@4crb.com (spoken as "mail at 4crb.com")
• Website: 4crb.com, where the earlier part of the conversation can be found
• Nothing else specific (no phone numbers given)