Glyn Davis and Terry Moran are two of the very small number of Australians who have literally sat in the Cabinet Room, week after week, watching the machinery of government operate from the inside. 

Both served as Secretary of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet (PM&C) — the most senior public servant in Australia. Terry held the role from 2008 to 2011 (including during the Global Financial Crisis). Glyn held it from 2022 to 2025.

Both have also held equivalent roles at the state level: Glyn as Director-General of the Office of the Cabinet in Queensland (1995–96), and Terry as Secretary of the Victorian Department of Premier and Cabinet (2000–08). Before PM&C, Glyn was Vice-Chancellor of the University of Melbourne for thirteen years, and later ran the Paul Ramsay Foundation, Australia’s largest philanthropic foundation. Terry’s career spanned senior roles across the Commonwealth and Victorian public services, including as CEO of Victoria’s Office of the State Training Board, inaugural CEO of the Australian National Training Authority, and Queensland’s Director-General of Education.

In this episode, we discuss where power actually sits, what happens when the doors close, how decisions get made (or deferred), how Australia’s system compares with the UK and Canada — and the routines that quietly run the country.

(Episode recorded on 8 December 2025.)

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Glyn Davis and Terry Moran are two of the very small number of Australians who have literally sat in the Cabinet Room, week after week, watching the machinery of government operate from the inside. 
Both served as Secretary of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet (PM&amp;C) &mdash; the most senior public servant in Australia. Terry held the role from 2008 to 2011 (including during the Global Financial Crisis). Glyn held it from 2022 to 2025.
Both have also held equivalent roles at the state level: Glyn as Director-General of the Office of the Cabinet in Queensland (1995&ndash;96), and Terry as Secretary of the Victorian Department of Premier and Cabinet (2000&ndash;08). Before PM&amp;C, Glyn was Vice-Chancellor of the University of Melbourne for thirteen years, and later ran the Paul Ramsay Foundation, Australia&rsquo;s largest philanthropic foundation. Terry&rsquo;s career spanned senior roles across the Commonwealth and Victorian public services, including as CEO of Victoria&rsquo;s Office of the State Training Board, inaugural CEO of the Australian National Training Authority, and Queensland&rsquo;s Director-General of Education.
In this episode, we discuss where power actually sits, what happens when the doors close, how decisions get made (or deferred), how Australia&rsquo;s system compares with the UK and Canada &mdash; and the routines that quietly run the country.
(Episode recorded on 8 December 2025.)
Sponsors
<ul>
<li>Vanta: helps businesses automate security and compliance needs. For a limited time, get one thousand dollars off Vanta at vanta.com/joe. Use the discount code "JOE".</li>
</ul>
To sponsor a future episode, go to https://josephnoelwalker.com/sponsor/

Joe Walker hosts refreshingly in-depth conversations with founders, scientists, scholars, economists, and public intellectuals.

Joe Walker hosts refreshingly in-depth conversations with founders, scientists, scholars, economists, and public intellectuals.

The Joe Walker Podcast

The JSP is a weekly exploration of questions that are both important and overlooked. Joe Walker, a former political speechwriter helping to build a Y Combinator-backed startup, hosts refreshingly in-depth conversations. Topics cover capitalism, science, business, culture and politics. Guests include Nobel laureates, former prime ministers, authors, entrepreneurs, investors and thought-leaders. Australia's best long-form podcast. A space for curious contrarians.

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