Katalin Karikó is a Hungarian-American biochemist. She is one of the inventors of mRNA technology.

Full transcript available at: thejspod.com.

Episode recorded on 15 February 2023.

Katalin Karikó is a Hungarian-American biochemist. She is one of the inventors of mRNA technology.
Full transcript available at: thejspod.com.
Episode recorded on 15 February 2023.

Well-researched interviews on ideas, technology, and policy. (Plus a recurring series on Australian public policy.)

Well-researched interviews on ideas, technology, and policy. (Plus a recurring series on Australian public policy.)

Joe Walker hosts refreshingly in-depth conversations with founders, scientists, scholars, economists, and public intellectuals.

The Joe Walker Podcast

Joe Walker hosts refreshingly in-depth conversations with founders, scientists, scholars, economists, and public intellectuals.

Katalin Karikó — Forging the mRNA Revolution

This episode is best watched on video, as we often refer to some calculations I wrote on a whiteboard. 

[Recorded 30 September 2026.]

Over the past few weeks, I've been trying to work out what it would take, on the energy side, for Australia to build 10 to 15 gigawatts of AI compute by 2030.

So I sat down with Tim Nelson, one of Australia's foremost energy economists. Tim chaired last year's independent review of the National Electricity Market, known as the Nelson Review. He was previously Chief Economist at AGL and is currently Head of Markets at Snowy Hydro (though he joins me in his own capacity).

We discuss whether data centres could eat half of Australia's electricity grid, how they could actually lower power prices for everyone, what smelters can teach us about building renewable generation quickly, what could bottleneck the compute build-out, and why the best place to train AI might be off-grid in the outback.

Sponsors
e61: a non-partisan economic research institute focused on Australian public policy. To receive a copy of the new essay I co-authored with e61 on data centres and the compute economy, go to https://www.e61.in/joewalker.
Vanta: helps businesses automate security and compliance needs. For a limited time, get one thousand dollars off Vanta at https://www.vanta.com/joe. Use the discount code "JOE".

To sponsor a future episode, go to https://josephnoelwalker.com/sponsor/

This episode is best watched on video, as we often refer to some calculations I wrote on a whiteboard.&nbsp;
[Recorded 30 September 2026.]
Over the past few weeks, I've been trying to work out what it would take, on the energy side, for Australia to build 10 to 15 gigawatts of AI compute by 2030. So I sat down with <a href="https://experts.griffith.edu.au/14375-tim-nelson">Tim Nelson</a>, one of Australia's foremost energy economists. Tim chaired last year's independent review of the National Electricity Market, known as the Nelson Review. He was previously Chief Economist at AGL and is currently Head of Markets at Snowy Hydro (though he joins me in his own capacity). We discuss whether data centres could eat half of Australia's electricity grid, how they could actually lower power prices for everyone, what smelters can teach us about building renewable generation quickly, what could bottleneck the compute build-out, and why the best place to train AI might be off-grid in the outback.
Sponsors
<ul>
<li>e61: a non-partisan economic research institute focused on Australian public policy. To receive a copy of the new essay I co-authored with e61 on data centres and the compute economy, go to <a href="https://www.e61.in/joewalker">https://www.e61.in/joewalker</a>.</li>
<li>Vanta: helps businesses automate security and compliance needs. For a limited time, get one thousand dollars off Vanta at <a href="https://www.vanta.com/joe">https://www.vanta.com/joe</a>. Use the discount code "JOE".</li>
</ul>
To sponsor a future episode, go to https://josephnoelwalker.com/sponsor/

AI Factories in the Outback — Tim Nelson [Compute Series]

This is the second episode in a multi-part series called 'Compute in Australia'. Series announcement here. More episodes to follow over the coming month.

[Recorded 24 August 2026.]

Janet Egan is Senior Fellow and Deputy Director of the Technology and National Security Program at the Center for a New American Security in Washington, DC. Her research focuses on the national security implications of artificial intelligence. She was previously the inaugural director of policy in Australia's Office of Supply Chain Resilience.

I caught up with Janet while she was home in Australia to stress-test the strategic case for building a large compute industry here. We discuss why training compute gives Australia more leverage than inference compute, whether hosting compute could also give us influence over AI safety, why copyright is a red line for the AI companies, and why Australia's window to act is "a month or months, rather than a year". 

Sponsors
e61: a non-partisan economic research institute focused on Australian public policy. To receive a copy of the new essay I co-authored with e61 on data centres and the compute economy, go to https://www.e61.in/joewalker.
Vanta: helps businesses automate security and compliance needs. For a limited time, get one thousand dollars off Vanta at https://www.vanta.com/joe. Use the discount code "JOE".

To sponsor a future episode, go to https://josephnoelwalker.com/sponsor/

This is the second episode in a multi-part series called 'Compute in Australia'. Series announcement <a href="https://josephnoelwalker.com/compute-in-australia/">here</a>. More episodes to follow over the coming month.
[Recorded 24 August 2026.]
<a href="https://www.cnas.org/people/janet-egan?ref=josephnoelwalker.com">Janet Egan</a> is Senior Fellow and Deputy Director of the Technology and National Security Program at the Center for a New American Security in Washington, DC. Her research focuses on the national security implications of artificial intelligence. She was previously the inaugural director of policy in Australia's Office of Supply Chain Resilience. I caught up with Janet while she was home in Australia to stress-test the strategic case for building a large compute industry here. We discuss why training compute gives Australia more leverage than inference compute, whether hosting compute could also give us influence over AI safety, why copyright is a red line for the AI companies, and why Australia's window to act is "a month or months, rather than a year".&nbsp;
Sponsors
<ul>
<li>e61: a non-partisan economic research institute focused on Australian public policy. To receive a copy of the new essay I co-authored with e61 on data centres and the compute economy, go to <a href="https://www.e61.in/joewalker">https://www.e61.in/joewalker</a>.</li>
<li>Vanta: helps businesses automate security and compliance needs. For a limited time, get one thousand dollars off Vanta at <a href="https://www.vanta.com/joe">https://www.vanta.com/joe</a>. Use the discount code "JOE".</li>
</ul>
To sponsor a future episode, go to https://josephnoelwalker.com/sponsor/

The Geostrategic Case for Compute in Australia — Janet Egan [Compute Series]

This is the first episode in a multi-part series called 'Compute in Australia'. Series announcement here. More episodes to follow over the coming month.

[Recorded 7 August 2026.]

Dr Andrew Charlton MP is an Australian economist, entrepreneur and politician. As Cabinet Secretary and Australia's Assistant Minister for Science, Technology and the Digital Economy, he is one of the key leaders shaping the Australian government's AI strategy.

Andrew shares his internal model for how AI plays out economically and what a middle power like Australia should do about it. We discuss whether data centres will yield large economic rents, the geostrategic case for a compute industry, and how the government plans to use compute to climb the stack to "sovereign AI".

Sponsors
e61: a non-partisan economic research institute focused on Australian public policy. To receive a copy of the new essay I co-authored with e61 on data centres and the compute economy, go to https://www.e61.in/joewalker.
Vanta: helps businesses automate security and compliance needs. For a limited time, get one thousand dollars off Vanta at https://www.vanta.com/joe. Use the discount code "JOE".

To sponsor a future episode, go to https://josephnoelwalker.com/sponsor/

This is the first episode in a multi-part series called 'Compute in Australia'. Series announcement <a href="https://josephnoelwalker.com/compute-in-australia/">here</a>. More episodes to follow over the coming month.
[Recorded 7 August 2026.]
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Charlton">Dr Andrew Charlton MP</a> is an Australian economist, entrepreneur and politician. As Cabinet Secretary and Australia's Assistant Minister for Science, Technology and the Digital Economy, he is one of the key leaders shaping the Australian government's AI strategy.
Andrew shares his internal model for how AI plays out economically and what a middle power like Australia should do about it. We discuss whether data centres will yield large economic rents, the geostrategic case for a compute industry, and how the government plans to use compute to climb the stack to "sovereign AI".
Sponsors
<ul>
<li>e61: a non-partisan economic research institute focused on Australian public policy. To receive a copy of the new essay I co-authored with e61 on data centres and the compute economy, go to <a href="https://www.e61.in/joewalker">https://www.e61.in/joewalker</a>.</li>
<li>Vanta: helps businesses automate security and compliance needs. For a limited time, get one thousand dollars off Vanta at <a href="https://www.vanta.com/joe">https://www.vanta.com/joe</a>. Use the discount code "JOE".</li>
</ul>
To sponsor a future episode, go to https://josephnoelwalker.com/sponsor/

Katalin Karikó — Forging the mRNA Revolution

The Joe Walker Podcast

Social links

Follow podcast

Recent clips