Explicit

Life or Death

Published Oct 4, 2023, 10:00 AM

The prosecution decides to pursue the death penalty against Bryan Kohberger.  The move triggers a series of legal maneuvers by both the defense and prosecution that could impact the trial.

 

Check us out online:

www.instagram.com/kt_studios

www.tiktok.com/@officialktstudios

www.kt-studios.com

Big breaking news out of Idaho involving the death penalty and the man.

Accused of murdering for University of Idaho students.

Prosecutors say they will pursue the death penalty for Brian Coberger.

This is the Idaho Massacre, a production of KT Studios and iHeartRadio episode nine, Life or Death. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at KT Studios, with Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane, and Connor Powell. With less than three weeks before the legal deadline to decide whether or not to seek the death penalty, prosecutors announced on June twenty sixth they would recommend the maximum sentence for Brian Coberger.

Calling him a continuing threat to society.

Under Idaho law, prosecutors have sixty days to formally notify a defendant after they enter their plea if the state plans to pursue the death penalty. In a short to the point three page court filing, Leida County Prosecutor Bill Thompson wrote that based on the known information, there were no mitigating circumstances preventing prosecutors from pursuing the death penalty. He also cited a number of quote aggravating circumstances in the brutal slayings as reasons his office was seeking the death penalty for the former criminology student.

The Leytaw County prosecutor says the murder of four University of Idaho students was especially heinous, atrocious, or cruel, manifesting exceptional depravity.

Thompson noted that Coberger acted with reckless indifference to human life and that the November twenty twenty two murders of Keighley Gonsalvez and Mogen Xana Kernodle and Ethan Chapin were carried out during another crime like burglary. The decision was months in the making, but also left the families of the victims divided. Under a new Idaho law, Brian Coberger could be executed by firing squad if he is convicted. In twenty twenty three, Idaho became the fifth state to adopt execution by firing squad as an alternative to lethal injection. It was to be expected, giving what he is accused of doing. The prosecution's decision to seek the death penalty for Coburger was not a surprise, but it did raise the stakes of the upcoming trial, and the move triggered a series of many legal maneuvers by both the defense and prosecution ahead of a pivotal motions hearing on the next day. In the weeks leading up to Leeda County Prosecutor Bill Thompson's decision to pursue the death penalty for Brian Coburger, prosecutors turned over a mountain of evidence to the twenty eight year old's defense team as part of the legally required discovery period. Among the boxes of evidence were thousands of pages of reports and other written material, ten thousand, two hundred photographs, nine thousand, two hundred tips that were delivered to investigators, and fifty one terabytes of audio, visual media, and digital materials. As the state pushed their case forward against Brian Coberger, the twenty eight year old's lawyer began to lay out their defense strategy ahead of the key June twenty seventh hearing.

They are not conceding anything here and will fight every piece of evidence.

In recent days, Coburger added two new members to his defense team, Attorney Stephen Mercer of Maryland and Bicka Barlow of California. Both are experienced defense lawyers and experts in criminal cases involving DNA evidence, particularly the use of the new DNA field of investigative genetic genealogy. Led by Coberger's chief counsel, Anne Taylor and her deputy Jay Logston, the new team immediately began to attack that prosecution's case. These new court filings offered a preview of a brewing legal battle over DNA evidence between the defense and the prosecution.

In new court documents, Coberger's attorney accusing the state of hiding its entire case.

Defense attorney Jay Logsen tore into the prosecution's case, saying there was no evidence of connection between Brian Coberger and the four victims. He argued that there is quote no explanation for the total lack of DNA evidence from the victims in Coberger's apartment, office, home, or vehicle building. Upon that argument, the defense also demanded investigators provide information about three other male DNA samples that were discovered at the murder scene. Here's Jeff and Stephanie.

According to Coberger's defense, by December seventeenth, about one month after the murders, lab technicians had isolated three other male DNA samples, two of which came from inside the house and a third pull from a black glove that was found outside the home a week after the murders. But get this, police investigators didn't originally find that glove. It was found by a podcaster and a retired homicide detective who was just sort of poking around. He saw the glove nestled among some leaves and branches on the ground behind a trash can near the home on King Road. He then told police about it, and they photographed the glove before collecting it for lab tests.

How is that possible? Now, Again, no one really knows when that glove first appeared or if it had any connection to the murders.

To me, the big question is what type of glove is it. It was in the thirties the night of the murder, so people very likely would have been wearing winter gloves. But if it's a latex glove, that tells a different story. And while we don't know what type of glove it was or if it was even connected to the crimes, we do know that investigators found male DNA inside of it.

Now, what the defense wants to know is what type of testing was conducted on that glove, as well as the other two samples.

Ran short tandem repeat or STR DNA on the three samples.

But the defense is wondering if there were any other DNA tests that were run, because look, when the information from the str DNA test was actually submitted to the FBI database, no male DNA profiles were identified.

So stuff to break that down. What we know is three men's DNA was connected to these samples, but we don't know who they are and if they have any connection to the crime.

And it doesn't appear investigators tried to do a genetic genealogy DNA test to identify them in the same way that they did for Brian Coburger.

In addition to requesting information about the three unidentified male DNA samples, the defense also challenged the prosecution's use of investigative genetic genealogy to initially identify Brian Coburger from the DNA on the knife sheath. Coburger's lawyer suggested the prosecution is purposely withholding details of the genetic genealogy research, saying in a court filing, a massive investigation came to focus on Coburger and Coburger alone. The state appears to be trying to hide its original domino, such as he cannot discover why. It is not uncommon for defense lawyers to challenge the use of new and emerging technology like investigative genetic genealogy, and Coberger's defense team has demanded access to all of the FBI genetic genealogy data used to tie Coburger to the crime against Stephanie and Jeff and Now.

Remember when Idaho investigators first found the DNA on the knife sheath, they ran it through the Combined DNA Index System database.

However, this person's DNA was not actually in the CODIS database and investigators were unable to identify the individual, but they didn't give up. The FBI jumped in to help and use a rare, controversial DNA technique called investigative genetic genealogy we talked about Traditionally, it's really only used in cold cases. Most famously, it was used to capture the Golden State killer Joseph DiAngelo in twenty eighteen.

It's actually rarely used in active investigations because some states have laws discouraging it, and many public genealogy companies, for example, like ancestry dot com, they prohibit law enforcement from using their databases for investigations, but in this case, the FBI took the DNA sequence data from that knife sheath sample to a private testing facility in Texas called authorm, who then utilized public genealogy websites to identify Coburger's family tree.

However, despite the defense's request, the prosecution is saying that Coburger and his defense team have no right to the FBI data and the paperwork from this process.

Is who become a DNA case. That's what it's going to be all about. The spushy eyebrow identifications going nowhere. But it's a battle of experts. So usually the government has a lot of money, much more than a public defender's office. So one of the problems for the defense is going to be to get enough money to hire the appropriate experts to deal with this issue of DNA, because that's really what it's going to come down to. And I also believe that there are some serious problems in terms of the way this thing was handled, in terms of sending it out. I mean, I was shocked, truthfully to see that.

Stephen Greenberg is a legal expert and former federal US attorney. He spoke with Stephanie and Jeff Colberger's defense team believes the FBI's handling of the investigative genetic genealogy data is crucial evidence and could be exculpatory.

Exculpatory evidence means exactly what it sounds like. It's exculpatory to the defendant. The Supreme Court a number of years ago decided a case called the United States versus Brady A long time ago. So this besides lawyers call it Brady material, And what it means is prosecution that has and its possession anything that in any way is helpful of defense. It must be turned over, and if they don't turn it over, it could be the end of the case for them. Many times there's been a guilty verdict and then an appeal it turned out that there was Brady information or exculpatory information that wasn't turned over and the guilty verdict was vacated.

Is there a time when that window closes or is it every moment up until the verdict is read.

In terms of when they have to turn it over, Yeah, never ceases. Even if during the trial, let's say something came up that all of a sudden landed in the lap of the prosecution and it was helpful of defense. It has to turn it over. It's a constant obligation that the prosecution has.

Using genetic genealogy to identify a suspect is a painstaking process and requires skilled researchers and analysts to put the complicated puzzle together. During the process, it can also identify a huge number of people connected to a potential suspect. Stephanie and Jeff.

How exactly does DNA work. Each person's DNA comes from roughly fifty percent of their parents and twenty five percent of their grandparents, and with each generation you go back, the genetic similarities are reduced a quarter, meaning you share about twelve point five percent of your DNA with your first cousins and three point one two five percent with your second cousins, and actually less than one percent with your third cousins. In most public genealogy databases, it's pretty easy to find third or second cousin matches because the bar is so low. That's why you see headlines where celebrities say they're related to famous dead presidents.

But in this case, to narrow it down to a specific person, genetic genealogists at Authorm that's the testing company we were talking about, and the FBI had to do a lot of digging through birth certificates and other genealogy information to build the tree. And this is the important part for the defense because they want to know the process from start to finish.

Yeah, Steph. What they're saying is that if all this painstaking work was done, there should be a long paper trail of how this research was executed, and you would think AUTHRAM or the FBI would have logged it somewhere, But.

The prosecution has so far refused to provide the data to Coburger's defense team, with the prosecution insisting they don't have it. The prosecution also says they won't use this information at Coburger's trial because they want to protect the names and personal information of hundreds of innocent relatives on Coburger's family tree and the names of the publicly available genetic genealogy services used. The question is does the FBI and AUTHROM have the records the defense wants, were any of the records kept or has all of it been destroyed? Regardless, this is a potential issue for law enforcement and the prosecution's case because of the Supreme Court mandated obligation to provide all Brady evidence to a defendant, especially a defendant and a death penalty case. Here again, former federal prosecutor Stephen Greenberg.

The only thing that popped out to me so far is, for some reason, when the Bureau went through all the different phases it went through in trying to match the DNA with this defendant, and they failed, and then they tried to build a tree and they sent it all over. They didn't keep records. There's no way to attack the indictment that I have seen yet other than this issue. We're talking about about exculpatory or brainy material or very simply put information that's helpful of the defense that the prosecutor has. Why they didn't download all of these things that bureau did makes no sense. If it's helpful of the defense, it has to be turned over. It will be a pre trial hearing on this issue of chain of custody and the use of DNA, and that will you know, that will be determined because if that hearing goes the way I think it might. I don't know who the judge is, I don't know what his or her particular ratings are. But if the prosecution gets whacked on this issue, then there'll be either be a play to a much lesser charge, be a dismissal. But that issue will be decided long before try.

Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in a moment. The prosecution is likely to counter the defense's demand for the AUTH room and FBI's research at the June twenty seventh hearing by insisting the only relevant DNA information for a trial is the buckle swab taken from Coburger's mouth when he was arrested at his parents' home and the paternal DNA sample taken from the Coburger's trash. Both of these DNA tests show an indisputable statistical match between Brian Coburger and the DNA on the knife.

Sheath, the likelihood that this is Brian Coberger's DNA, and it is five point three seven octillion times more likely than not that this is a match.

Jeff and Stephanie, we know the DNA profile found on the knife sheath is at least five point three seven octillion times more likely to be Brian Coburger's than someone else's.

And that's a very big number.

Correct. It's kind of impossibly big to wrap your head around. We're going to do our best to kind of explain it in terms that we felt was helpful. Five point three seven octilian is five point three seven followed by twenty seven zeros. And to put this number into more perspective, there are currently about eight billion people living on planet Earth right now, or eight followed by nine zeros. It's estimated that about one hundred and nine billion people have ever lived on planet Earth. And that's one hundred and nine again followed by nine zeros. A reminder, five point three seven octillions is five point three seven fall by twenty seven zeros.

So that's a tremendous number, and it seems impossible that it wouldn't be Coburger. Even the defense doesn't seem to be arguing that the DNA found on the sheath was Coburgers, at least they're not doing that yet. But what they are challenging is how investigators utilize DNA to conclude that it was Coburger's DNA on the nine sheath.

So in this case, the only fact so far that we know of that the prosecution has to link this particular defendant this awful crime is DNA evidence, that's it, and from what I've seen so far, that's not that solid. So you know, they'll show pictures of the gruesome slaying of these poor college kids. Defense will try to keep it out because they'll say it's too damaging, and it's and the judge will say, no, it's okay because it's relevant. That will all happen, but when push comes to CHEF, so far, we're talking about a case that hinges on d and we've all seen what preceded the taking of the final swab and the match, and I just think it's too early.

You mentioned like the DNA is the big thing, because we don't have any motive. I mean, there's no connection that we know. The defense is arguing there is no connection. That's the whole point. So does that matter.

The prosecution does not have to prove any motive at all. They have a motive, it will be helpful. The lack of a motive will be helpful of the defense because they will argue that there was no reason for this particular individual. He didn't know them. There's no motive, there was no fight, there was no money issue, there was no girlfriend, no boyfriend. Whatever it is, there's a doctrine called men's rea in the law, and men's rea is very important here because they had The prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that not only did this guy take it and slash them and stab them and all this stuff, but he had an intent to do it, He had a specific intent, specific content or what they say in Latin is men's rea, and then he's guilty of murder one. But they have to prove intent. They do not have to prove motive, and then the as I said, the defense will argue, well, you know, there was no reason for him to do it, Then the motive goes on that side.

One potential defense that Coberger's attorneys have yet to try to raise is a not guilty by reason of insanity defense. In many states, a defendant can claim insanity when charged with felony crimes if they show a lack of mental capacity, but Coberger's team can't make this argument. Idaho is one of only four states, along with Kansas, Montana, and Utah, that does not permit insanity as a defense. The Idaho state legislature removed it from the state's criminal code in nineteen eighty two, and passed a law saying that mental conditions shall not be a defense to any charge of criminal conduct. Stephen Greenberg says even if Idaho did provide a legal path to raise insanity as a defense, it likely wouldn't work. For Brian Coberger, this.

Guy was getting a PhD in criminology. He went back to school after all this happened, right he went to class. So in order to succeed with an insanity defense, you basically have to show that the guy couldn't have had the men's rey I mentioned earlier, or the intent because he was incapable of discerning right from wrong. Okay, in some jurisdictions they call it an irresistible impulse. But the longest short of this, in Layman's terms is if charged individual was so incapable of discerning right from wrong and didn't realize in any way what he was doing because of that particular status of his mental capability, then you don't have murder one because you don't have intent. Okay, so all this kind of but I don't unless there's something I've missed, I don't see this based on the behavior of this particular defendant as an insanity defense.

The mental illness may be used Idaho as a factor in sentencing. Even if the jury finds Coburger guilty and sentenced him to death, his lawyers can challenge a death penalty sentence by presenting mitigating evidence as to why Coburger should be spared execution, Meaning, if Coburger is convicted of murdering Killy Gonsalves, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin, then he could be spared the death penalty if he has proven to have a mental illness. Coburger's own words as a teenager about suicide, depression, and his rare eye condition visual snow may come into play in the future. However, Leida County Prosecutor Bill Thompson said in the court filing announcing his decision to seek the death penalty that the state had not seen any evidence of mitigating factors such as mental illness in Coburger or his family. Still, Coburger's lawyers could produce evidence of past mental health issues during the penalty phase if Coburger is convicted of the brutal slayings.

If you're not going to pursue the death penalty on a quadruple murder, What type of case are you going to pursue the death penalty on?

Before Laida County Prosecutor Bill Thompson announced his decision to pursue the death penalty for Brian Coberger, he met with the families of the four victims. While not every member of the victim's immediate family have spoken publicly, there is a divide over Thompson's decision to pursue the death penalty. Xena Kernodle's mother, Kara, has said she doesn't support the capital punishment for Brian Cobroger.

I'm not interested in a death penalty. That's not that's not who I am.

I don't believe in that, but I do think that he should he should spend the rest of his days in prison.

In contrast, Xena Kernodle's father Jeff, said he supports the death penalty for Coburger so he.

Can never replace the loved ones that are lost, but having some sort of justice case that's what the Gonzava's family wants.

While Madison Mogan and Kihi Gonsalvez's parents also support the decision to pursue the death penalty for Brian Coberger. Steve Gonsalvez has been particularly vocal about his support for the death penalty, saying it is one of the reasons he moved to the state of Idaho.

If you come after Mike Child, I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure that you know we come after you.

Ethan Chapin's parents have not waited on the decision, even when asked. Stacy Chapin, Ethan's mother, has said she will not attend the trial and her focus is on her family and keeping Ethan's memory alive.

It doesn't change the outcome, even looking at ahead at the trial coming up in October. Now, it does not change the outcome of our family. And it's energy that we need to put into healing our kids and getting back to a new family dynamic and work in on that. And so we let the prosecutors do their job and we do our job in our family.

Let's stop here for another break. The split over whether or not to pursue the death penalty is not the only issue dividing the parents of Kaylee, Madison, Xana, and Ethan.

Meanwhile, work crews started preparing the house where the murders happened for demolition.

In February, after Coburger was arrested, the University of Idaho announced it would demolish the blood soaked house at eleven twenty two King Road. University president Scott Green called it a healing step in the wake of a crime that shook the community. The owner of the home donated it to the school, and plans were made to turn the lot into a park with a separate memorial to be built on the University of Idaho campus. But now with the trial of Brian Coburger is set to begin on October second, some of the families of the four murdered students are pressing the University of Idaho to halt its plans to demolish the three story structure. Here is the Consolvates family attorney Shannon Gray, talking to the Law and Crime Network.

A big piece of evidence that potentially a jury might want to see it. I mean, there's sights and sounds and viewpoints and angles. It's an odd shaped house where witnesses were standing, where the potentially the defendant was standing.

The off campus two thousand, one hundred and seventy five square foot home has sat empty ever since the brutal murders. On November thirteenth, twenty twenty two. Today it is protected by a high metal fence and its lawn is covered in weeds and tall grass. Forensic investigators finished combing through the house long ago. Both the defense and the prosecution have said they are finished with the house, which has been flooded by a surge of true crime tourists who regularly come to visit. The university and the neighbors want the house torn down before students return to school in August of twenty twenty three, but the family of Kili Gonsalvez is urging the university to wait and say that the school is ignoring their request.

And we've just stressed just hold on, you know, wait till the trial is over and then then do whatever you want with the property. But they just they will not listen, and it's frustrating. But if they think that they're doing it on behalf of the community or the victim's families, it's not true.

Stephanie and Jeff And in the same week that there were these legal fights over DNA evidence and the announcement from the prosecution that they were in fact going to pursue the death penalty, workmen began preparing the three story house for demolition. They removed the remaining furniture and any other personal items that were left behind after the murders, and that's the end of it. It seems so strange that they wouldn't wait until after the trial.

Yeah, despite the prosecution and the defense saying they were done with the home, Kaylee's family was worried that the jury may want to see it at some point. They said publicly they wanted it left in tax so the jurors could walk around the property to better understand the events of the morning of November thirteenth. The family wants the house demolished eventually, but they're afraid that if it happens before the trial, it may hurt the prosecution of Brankoberger.

However, despite their concerns, the community apparently wants it gone sooner than later. According to Shannon Gray, Kaylee's family lawyer, the university basically said that we hear you, we get your concerns, but we are in fact going to move forward with the demolition because it's good for the community.

I understand the feeling of wanting the site of such a tragedy gone as soon as possible, but if even just one juror is suayed in either direction by seeing this house, then they need to leave it up. Justice is the number one goal here, and it seems shortsighted to potentially get rid of this huge part of the case forever.

We've seen this happen before. In fact, in our other podcast, The piked In Massacre, we saw that the homes where those murders happened were also infamously moved into a warehouse, which caused lots of controversy. Can you imagine if they had just torn them down. It seems like they would be destroying an active crime scene. And also in that case, the jurors all went to the location of the crimes. That was a big part of the pregame to the trial.

Yeah, Steh, that's a good point because as Coburger's movements on the night in question are very relevant, it stands to reason that the same sort of thing might happen for this case.

The next hearing in the case of Idaho versus Brian Coburger is set for Tuesday, June twenty seventh. Many of these issues could be settled after this important hearing, but the trial could also be pushed back to provide more time to decide these issues and because Brian Coberger's life is now at stake. More on that next time. For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at kat Underscore Studios. The Idaho Masacre is produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane, Connor Powell, Chris Bargo, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Toi. Music by Jared Aston. The Idaho Massacre is a production of iHeart Radio and Kat's Studios. For more podcasts like this, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

I'm Diana, you may know as Body Movin, My Friend and I. John Green were featured in the Netflix documentary Don't f with Cats. On our new podcast, True Crimes of John and Deiana were turning our online investigative skills to some of the most unexplained, unsolved, and most ignored cases.

Please say.

Thirty three year old bride Again was shot dead.

Gunned down in front of his two year old daughter.

Detectives confirmed that it was at targeted attack.

It appears to be an execution style assassination.

This is very active, so we have to be careful.

I've heard that there's a house that has some bodies in the basement.

I knew.

I just knew something was wrong.

Maybe there's something more sinister at play than just one young girl going missing. If you know something, heard something, please it's never too late.

To do the right thing.

This is true crimes with John and Deianna, the.

Production of KT Studios and iHeartRadio.

Justice is something that takes different shapes or formed

The Idaho Massacre

On November 13, 2022, four students from the University of Idaho are brutally stabbed to death in an 
Social links
Recent clips
Browse 88 clip(s)