Police say they have arrested the University of Idaho killer, but how concrete is the case against Bryan Kohberger? Are investigators overlooking information that could prove Kohberger’s innocence?
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The medic house to brutally stabbing four University of Idaho students to death.
Appears in court.
Coberger is accused of murdering University of Idaho students Kailee Gonzalvez, Madison Mogan, Zena Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin.
This is the Idaho Massacre, a production of KT Studios and iHeartRadio, episode four cracks in the narrative, I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at KAT Studios, with Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane, and Connor Powell. After being arrested in Pennsylvania, an extradited twenty eight year old Brian Coberger is in prison awaiting trial for the murders of four University of Idaho students. Six months after police say the former PhD criminology student committed the brutal murders. Coberger appeared in an Idaho courtroom. The families of several of the victims watched the arraignment hearing from the gallery. After a brief glance toward the families, Coburger kept his head and eyes looking forward.
Day.
We are now on record in a state of Idaho versus banger with.
His feet shackled and wearing an orange prison outfit. Coburger listened as the judge read the charges against him and explained that a conviction carried a penalty of life in prison or death.
Miss Taylor as mister Coberger prepared to plead to these charges.
When the judge asked Coburger's attorney if he was ready to enter a plea of guilty or not guilty, Attorney Ann Taylor declined. The judge then entered a plea on behalf of Brian Coburger.
Because Coberger is standing silent, I'm going to answer that guilty police each charge.
The judge then set a trial date for October second.
Brian was very shocked by his arrest.
While investigators believe they have their man, the case against Brian Cobeger is far from airtight.
Eager to be exonerated was the language he used as he was asserting innocence.
It's important to note that Brian Cobeger has not been found guilty of any crimes. Monroe County public defender Jason Lebar represented Coburger in Pennsylvania after his arrest. Lebar is no longer working for Coburger, but has been a regular on TV and in the media, pushing back on the official police narrative.
It's a strong circumstantial case, but the evidence, when it is viewed individually, you can attack that evidence as a defense attorney.
Here's Stephanie and Jeff.
So at this point, officials are in the very early stages of laying out their case against the alleged killer, Brian Coburger.
Yeah, all that's been released is this nineteen page probable cause AFFIDAVID. A probable cause affidavid is a summary of the evidence and circumstances of the arrest. It's usually written by the arresting officer and given to a judge for a review.
And within these nineteen pages we learned a lot about the night of the massacre and how police zeroed in on Coburger specifically.
A lot of the evidence at this stage is merely circumstantial. Now, for listeners who don't know or need a reminder, circumstantial evidence is evidence of facts that the court can draw conclusions from. So in this case, the fact that we know Coburger's cell phone pinged off of towers near the scene of the crime points to the idea that he may have been around the area when these murders were committed, and when you put all of that together, it paints a pretty damning picture, but it's not direct evidence like DNA or being in possession of the murder weapon. We need to remember that everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty, and as Coburger's first attorney pointed out, the best way for any defense to attack the prosecution is to remind the jury that everything the prosecution has is circumstantial, because at the end of the day, all the defense needs to do is find one jury member who has doubts about the case.
And it's also important to note that likely investigators have more evidence than their sharing at this point. In the immediate aftermath of the brutal murders, Moscow police said the two surviving roommates, Dylan Mortensen and Bethany Funk, were home during the murders, but they did not wake up until later in the morning. That information was part of every timeline until December twentieth, when Moscow pdeve removed it. Ten days later, when Brian Coberger was arrested, police stated in the probable cause Affidavid that Dylan was not only awake, but had seen the attacker.
This time, she saw a dark figure standing there in black clothing, wearing a mask that covered that person's mouth. She remembered that person being about five foot ten, not very muscular, but with an athletic build. She also remembered seeing bushy eyebrows.
Here again, Jeff and Stephanie.
Regardless of what Dylan may or may not have seen, she and Bethany are both victims and all this. They lived through a serious trauma, They lost their friends, and have been skewered by the media.
It's just not right.
The prosecution may be sympathetic to that, but they also have a case to close, and Dylan is the big star witness, and the question is, though, is sheer reliable.
One terrified she remained frozen in place as the suspect walked past her and left out the sliding glass door behind her.
There are some things we know based on the probable cause effidavit. We know that Dylan was quote unquote frozen in fear, that she heard some sort of cries from her roommates, and she saw a masked man who was slender but not muscular, with bushy eyebrows.
Dylan's description definitely offers something, but again, it doesn't really link Brian Coberger to the murder, not very muscular, having bushy eyebrows that could describe a lot of people. She also made no mention of skin color or hair color.
While at first the information dell And provided seemed to point the finger at Coburger, upon closer look at actually might be more helpful for the defense because this vague description could cause reasonable doubt amongst dury members.
Detectives announced that they are interested in talking to the person or people in a white twenty eleven to twenty thirteen Hondai Elektra.
The first piece of evidence that appears to connect Brian Koberger to the crime is his white Hondai Alantra.
It may be a big break in the case.
A grainy image of a speeding car that could be the white Hondai Alantra police are looking for.
According to the probable Cause Affidavid, multiple security cameras caught a white Alantra driving past the home on King Road within minutes around the murders. Coburger's first defense attorney, Jason Lebar points out that white Olanchas are common cars and Coburger is just one of many owners of the four door Sedan.
The white A Lantra can't be determined to be his white Alantra. I mean, there's circumstantial evidence indicating that it could potentially be his white A Launcher, but there's certainly not direct evidence.
Again, Jeff and Stephanie.
We know that within days of the murders, police told the wider community to be on the lookout for a white Hyundai Elantra.
As a result, the officer at WSU found this exact type of car registered to Brian Coburger.
Police also checked his records and noted that Coburger had changed his registration from Pennsylvania to Washington State on November eighteenth, which was just days after the murder.
They don't have direct evidence that he's driving the white Alantra.
Here's the problem. Police haven't provided any evidence that Coburger was actually driving the car speeding past the house on King Road as of this moment. There's no highway or red light camera photos, nothing.
That we know of.
And keep in mind, at this point we may not have all the information that the police does.
That's true, and we also don't know what they found in the car. According to experts we talked to, if this was Coburger's car and he really did kill four people and then get in and drive away, it's likely that, no matter how well he scrubbed and cleaned, there would be some sort of DNA evidence in that car from the night in question.
And I think it's worth noting that DNA can take weeks to process, and at the time of his arrest, investigators didn't have access to his car.
However, now weeks later they do. A key part of the prosecution of Brian Coburger will be putting him at the scene of the crime. Police also need to place Brian Coberger behind the wheel of the suspected vehicle in the probable cause AFFIDAVID Investigators rely on historical cell side data to make this connection. Here again Jeff and Stephanie.
So in an effort to track Coburger, police really had to rely on cell phone towers and to see where Coburger's cell phone was pinging from A.
Cell phone pang is the act of determining the estimated current location of a cell phone. This may be accomplished via GPS data or by using cell phone tower triangulation, which, as we know in this case, is what they used.
Police were able to get a search warrant for Coburger's cell phone records because he had been pulled over for a traffic violation prior and he gave police his cell phone number. Upon reviewing the records, police determined that Coburger's phone was connecting to towers in Moscow around that time, and that his movements were very similar to what the alleged killer was doing at that time.
And so I think what we surmise from this is that we are all glued to our phones. I'm here's my in my hand right now. So it stands to reason that of Coburger was in the car that night, so was his phone. However, it should be noted that locating a mobile phone based on a single Stete cell phone tower places the phone in a broad area, but it cannot actually pinpoint the exact location. So it's not like this is one hundred percent reliable science.
Cell Phones are intimate devices. Their data knows a lot about us. If Coburger's phone was in his car, then he was likely in his car. Once police began to hone in on Brian Coburger, they began looking at his movements around the time of the murders. He had given his cell phone number to a deputy during a previous traffic stop, so police got a search warrant for his cell phone records. A police review determined Coburger's phone was connecting to towers in the Moscow area and were similar to the movements of the suspected white Atlantra investigators believed was the murder vehicle. But cell phone pings on a tower are not precise GPS location coordinates.
If it was GPS location cordinates, you're talking down to a meter as to where Brian Coburger was at the time of these crimes, Whereas a cell phone tower ping is that you're within a radius of that tower up to twenty miles. And obviously mister Coburger lived within ten miles of the University of Idaho where these crimes were committed, so certainly he could ping at any moment in time near the actual crime.
The night of the murders, Coburger's phone was tracked heading to Moscow before the attack, but his phone was off from two forty seven am to four forty eight AM.
So what you're saying is that this looks like what he's trying to conceal his location for these approximately two hours.
Coburger's former attorney said, just because Coburger's phone pings at a tower doesn't mean much considering the short distance between Pullman, Washington, where Coburger lived, and Moscow, where the victims were murdered.
Right because the phone data places him near the scene of the crime, but not actually at the scene of the crime. Now, his cars built in computer may be a different story and provide a lot of data, but so far it has not been presented as evidence.
When investigators began combing through the crime scene, they found a tan leather knife sheath underneath Madison's body and the comforter. According to the probable cause Affidavid police found a single mail source DNA on the button of that knife sheath. Later testing identified that DNA as Brian Coburger's.
On the face of it, this DNA link on the knife sheath is very strong evidence against Coburger, but upon closer inspection, the existence of DNA on the sheaf doesn't actually mean Coburger was there the knight of the murders. All it really means is that at some point he came into contact with the knife sheath.
And granted this all sounds very suspicious, but again just throwing it out there as an alternate theory. Maybe somebody is trying to frame Coburger and that the real killer placed the knife sheath where the victims were murdered.
That is certainly an argument that defense could and probably will make without a murder weapon. This evidence is circumstantial. Remember this, for Gill is beyond a reasonable doubt.
It does seem like there's a lot of evidence mounting against Coburger. There are also plenty of places, though, to raise reasonable doubt.
Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in a moment. If Brian Coberger's innocent as he claims, are there any alternative theories that could explain the murders Jeff and Stephanie.
Like so many murder investigations, the police looked into many different possibilities. In the immediate aftermath of the crimes. The first suspect was Kaylee's ex boyfriend, a young man named Jack. The para dated for about five years and had recently broken up, but they were still in communication the night of the murders. Between two twenty six and two forty four am, Kaylee called Jack six times. Then between two forty four and two fifty two am, Madison, who was presumably with Kaylee, called him three times. Finally, at two fifty two am, Kaylee called him one more time, all to no avail.
This was all so tragic for Jack, but again it's very common to look at the people closest to the victims first when you're starting an investigation. But he was ultimately cleared very quickly.
So after the ex boyfriend, we heard about a supposed stalker. A local business owner went to the press and said that about three weeks before the murders, they overheard Madison and Kaylee voicing concerns about Kaylee being stocked. She said she would beg friends to walk closely behind her at all times after becoming terrified of someone who would follow her around town. Could this mystery stocker also be the killer?
And that story was also backed up by the footage from this food truck. In this video, if you've seen it, it appeared that there was this gentleman, a young guy kind of following Kaylee and Madison. And again, depending upon how you look at this footage, you could interpret this person as looking creepy or suspicious because he was wearing a hood. It's a snippet of a video. So is everyone just grasping at straws or is this actual real evidence.
Well staph. After this food truck guy, we heard about Xana's Doordashulibry and whether or not the driver might have seen something or somehow been involved.
And there were also all of those rumors about a love triangle gone wrong and scorned roommates seeking revenge. It all was getting extremely nuts at this point. It seems as though social media at least was targeting a lot of people without any information.
And it's safe to assume that investigators checked out all these possibilities and people and they were all cleared or never even considered suspects in the first place. But unfortunately, with a case like this, it doesn't really mean much for these innocent men and women because they were not free from online abuse and the court of public opinion.
Within hours of the brutal murders, local and national media descended on the once relatively unknown town of Moscow and began to cover the shocking killings. At nearly the same time, an invisible army of internet sleuths and trolls began to speculate on the investigation from Afar. Dozens of YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, and Reddit groups emerged overnight to discuss, dissect, and analyze all aspects of the case.
People are making things up because they want answers and because the gag order. People are making things up for content too, So like on Instagram and TikTok and YouTube, people are just making shut up and the running with it like it was a drug house and you know this was a drug deal gone bad and the door dash driver was secretly delivering cocaine. You know what I mean. Like, people are just making shut up.
Despite the massive amount of public interest, for weeks, police provided few details about the gruesome murders, and the judge in Idaho also issued a gag order preventing anyone involved from speaking publicly. The Internet often recklessly jumped in to fill the void. The baseless speculation and misinformation came with grim consequences for real innocent people.
Just no, I'm not the only one who suspect Rebecca's.
Go a TikTok psychic accused Rebecca Schofield, an associate professor at the University, of being in a lover's triangle and orchestrating the murders.
If anyone would have been considered a person of interest.
And would have had a motive, it would have been Jack. At the same time, a YouTuber accused Kaylee's ex boyfriend, Jack Decor of the killings, suggesting their recent breakup after five years of dating as a cause for the crime.
When you talk about like the reddit, because there's so many subreddits dedicated to this case. There's Idaho four, There's Moscow Murders, there's you know, Brian Coberger Moscow murders. There's so many different subreddits dedicated to this case that have, i mean hundreds of thousands of posts discussing everything under the sun. And because there's no real moderation, you know, on those those subreddits, there's all kinds of speculation.
You know.
The moderation on some of the subreddits could use little work. I mean, people are posting, you know, make they're making things up.
Deanna Thompson is the co host, along with John Green, of the upcoming iHeart Kat Studios podcast True Crimes with John and Deanna. In twenty ten, they led the online effort to identify and catch the international serial killer Luca Magnata That case was later turned into the popular Netflix documentary Don't Fuck with Cats. Stephanie and Jeff.
John Green and Deana Thompson aren't your typical online slows. They became famous for their work helping catch a killer online. It was all showcased in Netflix's Don't f with Cats in twenty nineteen. Here at Katie Studios, we're actually working with them on a new podcast called True Crimes, which will be out later this year.
And if you haven't seen their documentary, please do. It's astounding the work that they do. They're the perfect example of people who really conduct ethical, responsible investigations and turn over any relevant information to the police. It's impressive and it's really effective.
Here's Deanna Thompson aka Body Movin, followed by John Green.
I do think that people want to make sense of a really senseless murder of for like super rad people, you know, like how could this happen? So you have to make sense of it somehow, And in order to do that with a gag order and no information coming out, the only thing that you can do is get on the internet and talk to other people who are also trying to figure out what happened and I think that is cathartic. The problem with it is is imagine being Dylan or Bethany and having all these rumors come out about you, like you're involved somehow or you were in some sort of drug ring or human trafficking. I mean, the gamut has run wild on these two girls, and it's really tragic because they are listed as victims. They are listed as victims, and you don't victim shame people. And I feel that's what's been done to Dylan and Bethany. And it was happening to just Dylan because she's mentioned a lot in the PCA, But now that Bethany has potentially exculpatory information and she just got a subpoena in the state of Nevada to come testify at the prelim hearing, which has been squashed by the way they're going to come to Nevada and interview her instead. Now all the attentions on Bethany because she potentially has exculpatory information, and it's like, what does she know that's going to help Brian, you know what I mean, Like people are already starting to point fingers at her and it breaks my heart for them. And so that side of things I find quite disgusting, quite disgusting, and I have no qualms in telling people how disgusting I think they are.
Another aspect to it is time. When the incident happens and there's an amount of time that lapses before the police arrest somebody, I think that it triggers something in people. So this incident happened November thirteenth. It was a high profile murder case where four innocent college students in a small town were killed. Was on all the major news. Nobody knew. I think people get triggered, like, what is taking the police so long? Why can't they solve this? I know, I'm going to jump online and I'm going to try and figure this out myself. So there's that time element to it. I think it took six weeks before they arrested Brian. So when you have this gap and people think police aren't doing their job, I believe some of the parents are coming out saying the police aren't being forthcoming. I think that adds to it and gives people this sense of hey, let's go online. I mean, if you arrest somebody within forty eight seventy two hours, there's no time for the public to go out there and make these wild accusations, or for psychics to get involved in you know, try and figure out anytime a psychic's involved, you know something's not right. Don't listen to psychics. So I think that was part of this very high profile case.
Well, yeah, let's talk about how there's a way to do it ethically, and that's what you guys do, and then there's ways with unethically, which is maybe what we're seeing.
Yeah. So one of the things, you know, and I don't know if it's an ethical thing or not, but one of the things that we have done in the past is we don't really talk about the cases that we're working on. Ever. We don't post about them.
We don't ask the public for help.
We don't and if we do, it's very sneaky, you know, and it doesn't give anything away. We don't make videos about them, we don't do anything. And it's specifically because we don't want the suspect to know that we're looking at them. Number one, because sometimes I feel like there's a new case right now and I feel like me even acknowledging that I know about it gives that the person that did it like a little bit of a rush, like Ooh, body Movement's looking at me, you know what I mean, Like Ooh, I put this cat in a blunder and maybe i'll i'll, you know, maybe body movement and John Green will look at my case, you know, Like I don't want to give them any attention. So I don't want the suspect to know that I have the specific evidence I eat puma, which we talk about a lot in the podcast. I don't want the suspect to even know that him and I are working on it, because I think that will give them some sort of ego boost that these Netflix people are looking at me, you know, get them happy if there is Like in the cases that John and I typically work on, the victim is an animal, right, so there's no like human being that I have to like be careful with, like as far as a victim is concerned. But if you are talking about something like Idaho or there are actual humans that are victims and family that is suffering, I just think it's incredibly insensitive to get on national television and talk about rumors that you've heard where Ethan was sliced from ankle to groin.
Do you know what I mean.
I just think that's it's a rumor. I just think it's incredibly insensitive. His parents, his brother, their and sister. They have to see that, you know what I mean. And while they know what happened, I'm sure by now they know what happened to him. Do we really need to know what happened to him right now before court? Do we need to know that? Is it important that the public know that you heard a rumor that Ethan was slashed from ankle to groin? And I just think it's insensitive and I would never do that.
Dan and I at the core of it, are true crime fans, just like people listening to this podcast. And as a true crime fan, you've watched enough documentaries or series involving detectives or investigations, you always hear the same thing. It's an ongoing investigation, no comment, and so you need to learn to keep a tight lip, not say anything, don't expose anything that you have or know. You know, again, we're just armchair detectives, are not experts or anything. Who are we to go online and making a statement or accusation or accuse somebody, You know, it's not our place. We try to collect the evidence, put it in a format that's easily understandable. Contact the local law enforcement or wherever has jurisdiction. Talk to somebody there, say hey, we'd like to email you something. Let them handle it from there.
Let's stop here for another break. In twenty twenty two, investigators requested social media videos and photos to help zero in on the movements of Gabby Patito before and after she disappeared. Here is Adam Wandit, a digital forensic expert and professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice. He points out that her case isn't really one of online's slews breaking the case open, but more an example of the widespread availability of videos aiding law enforcement.
In the Gabby Potito case, the evidence that led to the recovery of Gabby Potito's body was actually evidence that was on a video camera of somebody who was driving through the park that accidentally recorded the vehicle that was used to dump her body in the park, and only after the case, only after he recorded it, when he learned on social media that there was a potential body or murder in that park, he went through his own evidence, found what he was looking for, posted it to YouTube, sent it to law enforcement, and in the Gabby Batito case specifically, that evidence was critical pro finding her body and bringing her killer to justice. And you know, it doesn't always happen that the public has that information, but in the Gabby Batito case they did. But that is certainly, you know, the rare exception.
When Internet sleuths have inserted themselves into active cases, it hasn't always gone well. In twenty thirteen, thousands of online and amateur detectives rushed to identify the individuals they believed carried out the Boston marathon bombing. They were wrong and misidentified several innocent people. With thousands of online sleuths and commentators posting about the Idaho murders, some have stuck out.
A user who goes by Papa Roger was a prolific contributor on the site with many creepy and insensitive posts.
The prolific poster appear to have knowledge of the facts of the case before information was officially released. At the same time, Papa Rogers also made claims that turned out to be wrong, like suggesting that the white Alantra was a quote red herring. Many have speculated that the poster Papa Rogers was in fact Brian Coberger, Stephanie, and Jeff.
Papa Rogers was a member of the University of Idaho Murders Case Discussion, which was basically a Facebook group up out of nowhere and very quickly amassed about two hundred and twenty five thousand users. That just shows the country's interest in this case. It's just one of the hundreds of online groups talking about the case real time, but of all the members, Papa Rogers he stuck out to the group because he was being very condescending and very argumentative to other online users.
Other things also caused Papa Rogers to be a notable member of this group. They posted frequently with information that seemed almost too detailed. For example, one post read of the evidence released the murder weapon has been consistent as a large, fixed blade knife. This leads me to believe they found the sheath. While this time police did say they were searching for a bladed murder weapon, investigators hadn't yet said anything about the knife sheath being at the murder scene until the probable cause AFFIDAVID was released, meaning that Papa Rogers was either a very good guesser or they somehow knew something the general public did not, and.
Also real time over on Readit, a very similar user named inside Looking also appeared to have a lot of detailed information that hadn't been released to the press yet.
One post read speculation killer parked behind the house, approached property through treeline, entered sliding door, and left it open. Committed murders an exited sliding door, one knife according to Corner's statement. Time of murder approximately three twenty to three forty am, according to the car fleeing the scene and on camera on Highway eight approximately three forty five am. Vehicle left skid marks upon exit.
The detailed post really creeped out the Reddit posters, and there was this one person I recall saying, quote, Dude, this guy is solving his own crime, psycho end quote, really implying that it's possible that the killer has now joined this group to really better understand the chatter happening around the crime. Interestingly, or coincidentally, Papa Rodgers was later kicked out of the group discussion and seemingly disappeared just before Coburger was arrested.
More on that next time. For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Kat Underscore Studios. The Idaho Masacre is produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane, Connor Powell, Chris Bargo, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Toi. Music by Jared Aston. The Idaho Massacre is a production of iHeart Radio and KAT Studios. For more podcasts like this, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. I'm Diana.
You may know as Body Movin, My Friend and I John Green were featured in the Netflix documentary Don't f with Cats. On our new podcast True Crimes with John and Deiana were turning our online investigative skills to some of the most unexplained, unsolved, and most ignored cases.
Please say thirty three year old bride again shot dead.
Gunned down in front of his two year old daughter.
Detectives confirmed that it was a targeted attack.
It appears to be an execution style of assassination.
This is very active, so we have to be careful.
I've heard that there's a house that has some bodies in the basement.
I knew, I just knew something was wrong.
Maybe there's something more sinister at play than just one young girl going missing.
If you know something, heard something, please it's never too late to.
Do the right thing.
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