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By the way, Caitlin Clark's injury has sent WNBA ticket prices for her games tumbling. The Indiana Fever Chicago Sky game, which right now maybe is the best rivalry in the league, tickets are down seventy one percent. So the animosity for her Rick Bucher's joining us, what do you make I mean, I read some numbers yesterday on the air on Memorial Day. It is unbelievable. Like she's worth almost half the merchandise of the league. What do you make of it? It's a combination of things.

By the way, Caitlin Clark's injury has sent WNBA ticket prices for her games tumbling. The Indiana Fever Chicago Sky game, which right now maybe is the best rivalry in the league, tickets are down seventy one percent. So the animosity for her Rick Bucher's joining us, what do you make I mean, I read some numbers yesterday on the air on Memorial Day. It is unbelievable. Like she's worth almost half the merchandise of the league. What do you make of it? It's a combination of things.

One, I think WNBA was an untapped market certainly, and the value of live programming when it comes to TV and everything else has just shot through the roof, particularly when it comes to sports. So I think she stepped in at the right at the right time to take advantage of all of that. I think of Tiger Woods. Tiger Woods, I think over his first five six years, he raised the value of purses like one hundred and forty percent for golfers, So he certainly brought a lot of money into the sport. Magic and Bird transformed the NBA. I don't have numbers on that, but obviously when you go from tape delay to actual live programming, that's going to have an influence. But I think really is it's really a matter of right place, right time, along with the nexus of women's sports coming to the forefront in terms of the general interest in sports and women's sports. So I think she just she tapped into a lot of things that are happening at this time.

One, I think WNBA was an untapped market certainly, and the value of live programming when it comes to TV and everything else has just shot through the roof, particularly when it comes to sports. So I think she stepped in at the right at the right time to take advantage of all of that. I think of Tiger Woods. Tiger Woods, I think over his first five six years, he raised the value of purses like one hundred and forty percent for golfers, So he certainly brought a lot of money into the sport. Magic and Bird transformed the NBA. I don't have numbers on that, but obviously when you go from tape delay to actual live programming, that's going to have an influence. But I think really is it's really a matter of right place, right time, along with the nexus of women's sports coming to the forefront in terms of the general interest in sports and women's sports. So I think she just she tapped into a lot of things that are happening at this time.

So I said this, we were talking about this before you came on. And by the way, Alan iverson Jay Mackett, another guy can throw in. But I counted fifteen players all time that played differently that were dynamics, starting with the first one I saw was Doctor j and then there's niek and then there's David Thompson and Michael and Magic and Burdon, Shaq and Kobe and Derrick Rose and Drexler, and there's about fifteen guys that literally Charles Barkley, that literally played different like that, they were more vertical, they were more dynamic. Zion could have been if not for injuries and weight. But the majority of great NBA players are closer scores to Kawhi Leonard than SGA and Tim Duncan and man ud Jenobili. And so when I hear the criticism of FGA, I'm like, he's not here to entertain us. He's just a tremendous all time player. What do you make of the free throw merchant label?

So I said this, we were talking about this before you came on. And by the way, Alan iverson Jay Mackett, another guy can throw in. But I counted fifteen players all time that played differently that were dynamics, starting with the first one I saw was Doctor j and then there's niek and then there's David Thompson and Michael and Magic and Burdon, Shaq and Kobe and Derrick Rose and Drexler, and there's about fifteen guys that literally Charles Barkley, that literally played different like that, they were more vertical, they were more dynamic. Zion could have been if not for injuries and weight. But the majority of great NBA players are closer scores to Kawhi Leonard than SGA and Tim Duncan and man ud Jenobili. And so when I hear the criticism of FGA, I'm like, he's not here to entertain us. He's just a tremendous all time player. What do you make of the free throw merchant label?

I think it's silly and it is inspired by franchised fans who don't like the way or don't like the fact that that SGA is getting over on their team and their favorite superstar. The reality is is that his ability to draw fouls is a function of all of the other talent and.

I think it's silly and it is inspired by franchised fans who don't like the way or don't like the fact that that SGA is getting over on their team and their favorite superstar. The reality is is that his ability to draw fouls is a function of all of the other talent and.

Skills that he's developed.

Skills that he's developed.

He's a three level scorer, and he's got the ability to get a step on guys going either direction, and he can score in a multitude of ways.

He's a three level scorer, and he's got the ability to get a step on guys going either direction, and he can score in a multitude of ways.

He hasn't always.

He hasn't always.

Had that, And by the way, being able to draw fouls is a skill as well, in terms of being able to change pace, direction, speed and score in a multitude of ways, So I have no problem with it. Every great player we've seen has been able to do it. And one of the biggest reasons that he has it and the distinction between those players that you mentioned that are all dynamic players and the ones that were dynamic players and were champions. And this is the thing that I think people don't really appreciate when it comes to basketball. We think of it.

Had that, And by the way, being able to draw fouls is a skill as well, in terms of being able to change pace, direction, speed and score in a multitude of ways, So I have no problem with it. Every great player we've seen has been able to do it. And one of the biggest reasons that he has it and the distinction between those players that you mentioned that are all dynamic players and the ones that were dynamic players and were champions. And this is the thing that I think people don't really appreciate when it comes to basketball. We think of it.

As a vertical sport.

As a vertical sport.

The greatest players, the champions, the most efficient players also have a ground game. They have great footwork and fundamentals and can score without having to leap over somebody. And that's what we're seeing with Anthony Edwards right now is that he doesn't have that, and conversely SGA does, Jalen Brunson does, and until Anthony Edwards develops that, he's not going to be on their level, no matter how dynamic his game might be otherwise.

The greatest players, the champions, the most efficient players also have a ground game. They have great footwork and fundamentals and can score without having to leap over somebody. And that's what we're seeing with Anthony Edwards right now is that he doesn't have that, and conversely SGA does, Jalen Brunson does, and until Anthony Edwards develops that, he's not going to be on their level, no matter how dynamic his game might be otherwise.

Well, you know, it's interesting rick in politics today, because you have to win primaries. It basically doesn't play the moderates in common sense, either you're far left or far right, and that will get you in the running right. So like if you're a moderate slightly left or slightly right, you're at a huge disadvantage. You're better to be far right or far left. And analytics can do that to sports in that it changes your game. Like Aunt Edwards, I look at his game and I think, I want more touches, I want more dunks, I want more transition. I wonder if analytics is changing his game for the worst.

Well, you know, it's interesting rick in politics today, because you have to win primaries. It basically doesn't play the moderates in common sense, either you're far left or far right, and that will get you in the running right. So like if you're a moderate slightly left or slightly right, you're at a huge disadvantage. You're better to be far right or far left. And analytics can do that to sports in that it changes your game. Like Aunt Edwards, I look at his game and I think, I want more touches, I want more dunks, I want more transition. I wonder if analytics is changing his game for the worst.

Well, I don't know if it's analytics or falling in love with the idea of being Steph Curry and being able to shoot like Steph Curry.

Well, I don't know if it's analytics or falling in love with the idea of being Steph Curry and being able to shoot like Steph Curry.

From two point range.

From two point range.

But there's no doubt that that's the worst thing that's happened to Anthony Edwards game was the being on the Olympic team and deciding that he was going to spend the summer trying to be more like Steph Curry because during the season he fifty percent of his shots came from three point range. If I'm the defense, taking threes is the best thing that can happen because it's not going to open up things for anybody else. If he's hitting them, Yeah, that's a problem, but he's very streaky when it comes to that, and when he gets into the paint, he's much more dangerous when he has his mid range game. All of the threes that he took this season were at the expense of the mid range game, mid range.

But there's no doubt that that's the worst thing that's happened to Anthony Edwards game was the being on the Olympic team and deciding that he was going to spend the summer trying to be more like Steph Curry because during the season he fifty percent of his shots came from three point range. If I'm the defense, taking threes is the best thing that can happen because it's not going to open up things for anybody else. If he's hitting them, Yeah, that's a problem, but he's very streaky when it comes to that, and when he gets into the paint, he's much more dangerous when he has his mid range game. All of the threes that he took this season were at the expense of the mid range game, mid range.

That he used to take.

That he used to take.

He was developing a mid range game that's almost non existent now.

He was developing a mid range game that's almost non existent now.

I think one of the most telling stats that I.

I think one of the most telling stats that I.

Saw today was the fact that SGA averages six five point eight six field goal attempts from the ten to sixteen point range, the foot range. The mid range ant averages one per game. And you can tell that when he gets the ball on the perimeter and he can't see a path to the rim, he gets hesitant because as opposed to SGA just wants to get you on your hip. He gets you on your hip, and he's going to get to the free throw line, and then he's going to.

Saw today was the fact that SGA averages six five point eight six field goal attempts from the ten to sixteen point range, the foot range. The mid range ant averages one per game. And you can tell that when he gets the ball on the perimeter and he can't see a path to the rim, he gets hesitant because as opposed to SGA just wants to get you on your hip. He gets you on your hip, and he's going to get to the free throw line, and then he's going to.

Make a decision.

Make a decision.

Can I get there? If I can't get there, is Isaiah Hartenstein open for a lob? Or I can just pull up and hit this mid range and I'm comfortable doing that, and he shoots it. SGA shoots that mid range at fifty five percent. That eliminates the need at that high a percentage mid range. That eliminates your need to be able to shoot threes or trade two for threes because now you've got to shoot the three at a high percentage. Aunt shoots that same shot at closer to forty percent and so that to me is the big hole in Ant's game. And until he gets that, or develops that, or focuses on that, he's going to be limited and defenses are going to be able to corral him.

Can I get there? If I can't get there, is Isaiah Hartenstein open for a lob? Or I can just pull up and hit this mid range and I'm comfortable doing that, and he shoots it. SGA shoots that mid range at fifty five percent. That eliminates the need at that high a percentage mid range. That eliminates your need to be able to shoot threes or trade two for threes because now you've got to shoot the three at a high percentage. Aunt shoots that same shot at closer to forty percent and so that to me is the big hole in Ant's game. And until he gets that, or develops that, or focuses on that, he's going to be limited and defenses are going to be able to corral him.

The way that OKC has. One of the hardest things for certainly fans and media but even execs to remember is that you should fall in like with your stars, not fall in love. Almost all players have holes and flaws and whoever has the ball on your team. Too many people I think fell in love with Harden. Harden didn't play defense, he was too ball centric, didn't play well with others. Jalen Brunson, I don't think is as naturally gifts it as Harden, but he doesn't defend. It doesn't work on the floor with Kat a lot of the time, and you know he needs the ball a lot. So when I look at the Knicks, I know the Knicks haven't been relevant forever. Like I get falling in love, but I look at him and I think he's not ideal with his current roster. Move Cat find a catch and shoot while maintaining some size like KD. Doesn't that make some sense.

The way that OKC has. One of the hardest things for certainly fans and media but even execs to remember is that you should fall in like with your stars, not fall in love. Almost all players have holes and flaws and whoever has the ball on your team. Too many people I think fell in love with Harden. Harden didn't play defense, he was too ball centric, didn't play well with others. Jalen Brunson, I don't think is as naturally gifts it as Harden, but he doesn't defend. It doesn't work on the floor with Kat a lot of the time, and you know he needs the ball a lot. So when I look at the Knicks, I know the Knicks haven't been relevant forever. Like I get falling in love, but I look at him and I think he's not ideal with his current roster. Move Cat find a catch and shoot while maintaining some size like KD. Doesn't that make some sense.

I would prefer KD over Cat just because I can. He's more reliable as a scorer and he can catch and shoot or operate off of one dribble. But what I really need is to take one of the hats off of Jalen Brunson, because he's not only mister Klutch. He's not only their go to score, but he's also their playmaker. For the most part, you can't really play through Cat or anybody else on that team. What I need, and these names aren't nearly as sexy as KD, but Demanta Sabonis and what he does for the Sacramento Kings as a triple double threat.

I would prefer KD over Cat just because I can. He's more reliable as a scorer and he can catch and shoot or operate off of one dribble. But what I really need is to take one of the hats off of Jalen Brunson, because he's not only mister Klutch. He's not only their go to score, but he's also their playmaker. For the most part, you can't really play through Cat or anybody else on that team. What I need, and these names aren't nearly as sexy as KD, but Demanta Sabonis and what he does for the Sacramento Kings as a triple double threat.

They've played through.

They've played through.

Him these past three a couple of years, and he's demonstrated that he can be a playmaker or a Franz Wagner. It's the Lebron James Luka Doncicch type that is not dominating the ball as a scorer. I can use Jalen for that, but I can't use him for both. And there is the element. Look, I think that Jalen tries to play defense. I think that he can play defense in certain situations. But there's just a limit when you're six feet one hundred and ninety pounds or so to expect you to win every matchup offensively and then be able to defend your position. In today's uber athletic NBA is a lot to ask.

Him these past three a couple of years, and he's demonstrated that he can be a playmaker or a Franz Wagner. It's the Lebron James Luka Doncicch type that is not dominating the ball as a scorer. I can use Jalen for that, but I can't use him for both. And there is the element. Look, I think that Jalen tries to play defense. I think that he can play defense in certain situations. But there's just a limit when you're six feet one hundred and ninety pounds or so to expect you to win every matchup offensively and then be able to defend your position. In today's uber athletic NBA is a lot to ask.

Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays and noon eastern non a em Pacific.

Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays and noon eastern non a em Pacific.

Finally, you know, I always notice on TikTok one of the things you see just a bevy of is this fitness world we live in, where eat this and do this. And I always think to myself, people are what they are. You can change for an hour, but by February people who signed up for the gym are back to not going to the gym. So I hear that Luca, his conditioning is really changing, and I think he likes his beer, he likes his off seat.

Finally, you know, I always notice on TikTok one of the things you see just a bevy of is this fitness world we live in, where eat this and do this. And I always think to myself, people are what they are. You can change for an hour, but by February people who signed up for the gym are back to not going to the gym. So I hear that Luca, his conditioning is really changing, and I think he likes his beer, he likes his off seat.

Right, what do you make of the Luca?

Right, what do you make of the Luca?

I just in the end, I think he is what he is.

I just in the end, I think he is what he is.

Right, Colin, if we wanted to, we could have had this conversation in twenty twenty two or twenty twenty three.

Right, Colin, if we wanted to, we could have had this conversation in twenty twenty two or twenty twenty three.

I've seen this iteration.

I've seen this iteration.

I've seen the reports, I've seen the video clips, I've seen him working out, it's like, oh, he's slimmed down. I can't tell you.

I've seen the reports, I've seen the video clips, I've seen him working out, it's like, oh, he's slimmed down. I can't tell you.

He's not alone.

He's not alone.

There's a lot of other players I've seen who was like, oh, he's in shape or he's lost weight. The challenge is is over the course of the season, when you are traveling and you've got weird hours and you're fatigued from games. That's when the STEPH curve separate themselves. Where they get in and they get their treatment, and then they get in the weight room and they're setting that standard for themselves and for their entire team, and that is where things have to change if they're going to change. For Luca, He's still at a young enough age where I don't want to say that it can't happen, because I've seen other players realize, you know what, injury wise and everything else, if I don't take care of better care of my body, I'm going to get into trouble. But that said, it can't. It's not the off season is the easiest time to take care of yourself. It's in the grind that you've got to be disciplined.

There's a lot of other players I've seen who was like, oh, he's in shape or he's lost weight. The challenge is is over the course of the season, when you are traveling and you've got weird hours and you're fatigued from games. That's when the STEPH curve separate themselves. Where they get in and they get their treatment, and then they get in the weight room and they're setting that standard for themselves and for their entire team, and that is where things have to change if they're going to change. For Luca, He's still at a young enough age where I don't want to say that it can't happen, because I've seen other players realize, you know what, injury wise and everything else, if I don't take care of better care of my body, I'm going to get into trouble. But that said, it can't. It's not the off season is the easiest time to take care of yourself. It's in the grind that you've got to be disciplined.

Yeah, no question, You're on a flight from you know, eleven forty five to two in the morning. You will revived.

Yeah, no question, You're on a flight from you know, eleven forty five to two in the morning. You will revived.

You can't sleep, and they've got food. Let me tell you, I've been on those team flights. There's food outside the locker room. There's food. There's there's food when you get on the plane, and then they ask you what.

You can't sleep, and they've got food. Let me tell you, I've been on those team flights. There's food outside the locker room. There's food. There's there's food when you get on the plane, and then they ask you what.

You'd like to have as a full meal.

You'd like to have as a full meal.

So the opportunity to put on weight is absolutely there throughout the season.

So the opportunity to put on weight is absolutely there throughout the season.

Rick good Senior, as alas my man, you got it, all right, j Mack with the news.

Rick good Senior, as alas my man, you got it, all right, j Mack with the news.

This is the herd Line News.

This is the herd Line News.

All right, Colin, let's start with the Green Bay Packers. Haven't done much with them lately. They've kind of been quiet, you know, maybe second, third or fourth in the division this year. But Jordan Love has a new weapon on the outside, a young fellow named Matthew Golden out of Texas. He's a Burner, and his quarterback says, Golden looks like a stud, looks like a very polished receiver. I'm excited to just see how far he could take it. My question is, I don't know how Golden cracks the rotation or what they do. They've got one of the best receiving groups in the league. No Alpha, no superstar, but a lot of good players, Christian Watson, Jade Reid, Romeo Dobbs. What are your expectations for Golden.

All right, Colin, let's start with the Green Bay Packers. Haven't done much with them lately. They've kind of been quiet, you know, maybe second, third or fourth in the division this year. But Jordan Love has a new weapon on the outside, a young fellow named Matthew Golden out of Texas. He's a Burner, and his quarterback says, Golden looks like a stud, looks like a very polished receiver. I'm excited to just see how far he could take it. My question is, I don't know how Golden cracks the rotation or what they do. They've got one of the best receiving groups in the league. No Alpha, no superstar, but a lot of good players, Christian Watson, Jade Reid, Romeo Dobbs. What are your expectations for Golden.

And the Dobbs is inconsistent. Watson has heard a lot. There's no problem having an extra receiver. My take would be that the Green Bay Packers will go through camp early stages of the season, will move one of those receivers, you know, get a fifth round pick, or or get a functional interior offensive lineman. But when I saw that draft pick, you know, that draft pick felt like to me as they're disappointed with one of the receivers in their room. It could be Watson because of his injuries. But my take was they have a lot of good tight ends, a lot of good receivers, and they drafted another one. Sometimes teams tell you what they're thinking about their personnel during draft and free agency, and I thought they told you they're going to move off one of their young receivers and somebody. They've got four guys that have moments.

And the Dobbs is inconsistent. Watson has heard a lot. There's no problem having an extra receiver. My take would be that the Green Bay Packers will go through camp early stages of the season, will move one of those receivers, you know, get a fifth round pick, or or get a functional interior offensive lineman. But when I saw that draft pick, you know, that draft pick felt like to me as they're disappointed with one of the receivers in their room. It could be Watson because of his injuries. But my take was they have a lot of good tight ends, a lot of good receivers, and they drafted another one. Sometimes teams tell you what they're thinking about their personnel during draft and free agency, and I thought they told you they're going to move off one of their young receivers and somebody. They've got four guys that have moments.

It could be Dobbs.

It could be Dobbs.

He had the incident when he was Ben Slash last season for like Bet getting upset with his touches. Wix is another guy who's pretty good, big body guy, but that.

He had the incident when he was Ben Slash last season for like Bet getting upset with his touches. Wix is another guy who's pretty good, big body guy, but that.

Is interesting a trade chip.

Is interesting a trade chip.

Let's move off one of the other guys creates a new room for Golden. I don't hate that. Golden looks like a lot of Jaden Reid, who emerges a potential stud.

Let's move off one of the other guys creates a new room for Golden. I don't hate that. Golden looks like a lot of Jaden Reid, who emerges a potential stud.

Yeah, he didn't show up.

Yeah, he didn't show up.

Late in a big game.

Late in a big game.

I think it might have been a one game late in the season. I was like, where's Jade Reid?

I think it might have been a one game late in the season. I was like, where's Jade Reid?

So they got weapons.

So they got weapons.

I like the Packers, I just I don't.

I like the Packers, I just I don't.

Know what to make of them. Call it next up.

Know what to make of them. Call it next up.

Jannis has an idea. Okay, he is endorsing this USA Versus the World All Star Game.

Jannis has an idea. Okay, he is endorsing this USA Versus the World All Star Game.

Now, it's been floated before.

Now, it's been floated before.

But Jannis is now all of a sudden active on social media ahead of potentially his trade summer. He is floating a USA versus the World All Star Game, and Colin, I'm not gonna lie. This looks pretty awesome. The problem is, how do you get these guys to buy in when Curry and Lebron are old eighties old, and then a lot of the Europeans like they need the rest because they're carrying their teams. Janis, Jokic, Lucas.

But Jannis is now all of a sudden active on social media ahead of potentially his trade summer. He is floating a USA versus the World All Star Game, and Colin, I'm not gonna lie. This looks pretty awesome. The problem is, how do you get these guys to buy in when Curry and Lebron are old eighties old, and then a lot of the Europeans like they need the rest because they're carrying their teams. Janis, Jokic, Lucas.

It's a bit of a tough sell.

It's a bit of a tough sell.

I don't know how you make this interesting, but splitting it into two certainly I mean a talent and it's just.

I don't know how you make this interesting, but splitting it into two certainly I mean a talent and it's just.

Oh I would, I would absolutely, in one second take this over the current NBA All Start Game, not even without question. You know, like we care about stuff in this country when we're threatened or we lose, that's when we really truly care. Watching one forty eight four doesn't do it for me. I love the idea and this I think it's smart.

Oh I would, I would absolutely, in one second take this over the current NBA All Start Game, not even without question. You know, like we care about stuff in this country when we're threatened or we lose, that's when we really truly care. Watching one forty eight four doesn't do it for me. I love the idea and this I think it's smart.

So I guess the counter would be like, what's the win?

So I guess the counter would be like, what's the win?

Is the win?

Is the win?

Hey?

Hey?

You get to pump up the USA or.

You get to pump up the USA or.

The win the win is, you know, whenever the All Star Game is February, whenever it is, people are talking for two to three days about the NBA. There's some social currency to it. That's the win something.

The win the win is, you know, whenever the All Star Game is February, whenever it is, people are talking for two to three days about the NBA. There's some social currency to it. That's the win something.

Final story Colin is Aaron Judge. Oh my gosh, this guy's on a tear. He is hitting three ninety eight right now, chasing four hundred. He's first or second in almost every major batting category, trying to break Babe Roots record for total basis which has stood since Is that right nineteen twenty one? Oh my gosh, look at these numbers for Judge first and average obp ops total bases, extra base hits, second in home runs after a Tani went yard last night. Aaron Judge is absolutely cooking with the Yankees, and I'd love a Yankees Dodgers rematch in the World Series.

Final story Colin is Aaron Judge. Oh my gosh, this guy's on a tear. He is hitting three ninety eight right now, chasing four hundred. He's first or second in almost every major batting category, trying to break Babe Roots record for total basis which has stood since Is that right nineteen twenty one? Oh my gosh, look at these numbers for Judge first and average obp ops total bases, extra base hits, second in home runs after a Tani went yard last night. Aaron Judge is absolutely cooking with the Yankees, and I'd love a Yankees Dodgers rematch in the World Series.

You get Judge vs.

You get Judge vs.

Otani, which the.

Otani, which the.

Cubs may have something to say with that. Oo oh, keep your on the Cubs. Just just keep your on the cub Why don't you talk.

Cubs may have something to say with that. Oo oh, keep your on the Cubs. Just just keep your on the cub Why don't you talk.

About white Sox and then while you're at it.

About white Sox and then while you're at it.

No, let's not, let's not do that. Give me a flake. J Mack with the news.

No, let's not, let's not do that. Give me a flake. J Mack with the news.

Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by The Herd Line News.

Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by The Herd Line News.

Nick Wright, Rick Buker Bull stopped by Today Live in Chicago, which The Herd.

Nick Wright, Rick Buker Bull stopped by Today Live in Chicago, which The Herd.

Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays and noon Easter nine am Pacific. One more Herd. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day, seven days a week. Within the iHeartRadio app, Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you like.

Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays and noon Easter nine am Pacific. One more Herd. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day, seven days a week. Within the iHeartRadio app, Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you like.

That's always what's interesting about Aaron Rodgers, who still hasn't made a decision. Aaron didn't win enough big games and there's reasons for it. I mean, even with Brady Manning and Big Ben in the AFC. There was a thought that Aaron would own the NFC. He didn't. He didn't even own the NFC, which had weaker quarterbacks, and so my tickets. There's a reason he's not really a foxhole guy, can be passive aggressive. I've been told this by he wasn't as committed as other players like you know, Brady and Manning. He wasn't obsessed. He had a life, and so it's Oh, I've always said, it's very hard for me, what do you do with Marino and Aaron Rodgers? Because the four or five things that matter when you judge all time quarterbacks, super Bowl appearances and wins, division titles, productivity, MVP, playoff record, and Aaron and Reno just don't match up. Now, Aaron's closer than Dan Marino is. But Dan Marino had Don Shula and got to won Super Bowl and couldn't win Why. A little bit of a playboy, maybe not as obsessed with work ethic middle older later in his career, didn't have his legs, a little bit stubborn, relied too much on talent and not other factors. He had the coach, it's a coach quarterback league. My entire life. He had a running game, he had decent protection. So it's nothing against Marino, but it's on Marino, it's not in anybody else. They had good ownership. So when you talk about all these great plays, say what you want about Aikman. When he had the opportunity to win titles, he did too with Jimmy and one with Barry Switzer. He was a leader. He maybe he didn't have the talent, but he won when Bradshaw had the great defenses in Chuck Knowle, he goes four and oh in super Bowls, and so you don't have to win all of them. Elway got blown out multiple times. Mahomes has been blown out, but he gets to them. Elway is getting to them over Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson, and so like, I think Josh Allen and Lamar are all time greats. But if they truly are, they'll make a Super Bowl. They'll get the one or two. And so I've always been a huge fan of Lamar Jackson, but if he doesn't get to a super Bowl, then it's hard to put him in that class. Right. He's just a winning regular season player. And you know, a great example is golf is that as great as Tiger Woods was, Phil Mickelson still won six majors and forty five PGA events because he's an all time great, So I mean, as good as it all was, and Fetter was, Djokovic is still winning those tournaments. Three all time greats simultaneously. You could argue, although Feeder's a little older in their prime, they still won those all those majors because they're three all time greats, as McEnroe was, as Borg was, and they were simultaneously. I think they were simultaneously in their prime. So that that's the thing with Aaron. It's like Aaron Brady Manning and Big Ben were on the other ledger. You got to get to Super Bowls and he got the one, and you could say, well, who do you have as coach? He had offensive coaches? Well what did he have? Support? They always had good offensive lines. I mean, now Green Bay doesn't get the free agents that other organizations do, but I would argue in the last twenty five years they've drafted better than any organization in the league. I really believe that they draft and develop, especially O line, They draft and develop as well as anybody in the league. So it's I've always said I don't know what to do, because, as Aaron has been talking in the last couple of weeks, he said, I don't want to play in Louisiana. I'm not going to be a Saint, so where he plays matters. He said he'd play for ten million dollars, so salary doesn't matter. He's telling you it's not about the money, it's about where I play. And at a recent event he talked about, you know, he talked about maybe I could go to Green Bay. So I'm not even sure right now if he wants to be a starter, But I've if you retire today, where to put him. Jim Kelly, by the way, who also played in another league. I mean, think how good you can say what you want about Jim Kelly. He got the four Super Bowls and a lot of his career was in another league. So Jim Kelly has to be considered an all time Greade to me, Now, he didn't win him. He was going up against the Dynasty and the Dallas Cowboys, but the fact is Jim got to four of them. So I think when you talk about all time greats, if Aaron retired today, I've never quite known like like, I've never quite known what to do. Nick. Here was Aaron over the weekend asked about the possibility as retiring as a Packer.

That's always what's interesting about Aaron Rodgers, who still hasn't made a decision. Aaron didn't win enough big games and there's reasons for it. I mean, even with Brady Manning and Big Ben in the AFC. There was a thought that Aaron would own the NFC. He didn't. He didn't even own the NFC, which had weaker quarterbacks, and so my tickets. There's a reason he's not really a foxhole guy, can be passive aggressive. I've been told this by he wasn't as committed as other players like you know, Brady and Manning. He wasn't obsessed. He had a life, and so it's Oh, I've always said, it's very hard for me, what do you do with Marino and Aaron Rodgers? Because the four or five things that matter when you judge all time quarterbacks, super Bowl appearances and wins, division titles, productivity, MVP, playoff record, and Aaron and Reno just don't match up. Now, Aaron's closer than Dan Marino is. But Dan Marino had Don Shula and got to won Super Bowl and couldn't win Why. A little bit of a playboy, maybe not as obsessed with work ethic middle older later in his career, didn't have his legs, a little bit stubborn, relied too much on talent and not other factors. He had the coach, it's a coach quarterback league. My entire life. He had a running game, he had decent protection. So it's nothing against Marino, but it's on Marino, it's not in anybody else. They had good ownership. So when you talk about all these great plays, say what you want about Aikman. When he had the opportunity to win titles, he did too with Jimmy and one with Barry Switzer. He was a leader. He maybe he didn't have the talent, but he won when Bradshaw had the great defenses in Chuck Knowle, he goes four and oh in super Bowls, and so you don't have to win all of them. Elway got blown out multiple times. Mahomes has been blown out, but he gets to them. Elway is getting to them over Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson, and so like, I think Josh Allen and Lamar are all time greats. But if they truly are, they'll make a Super Bowl. They'll get the one or two. And so I've always been a huge fan of Lamar Jackson, but if he doesn't get to a super Bowl, then it's hard to put him in that class. Right. He's just a winning regular season player. And you know, a great example is golf is that as great as Tiger Woods was, Phil Mickelson still won six majors and forty five PGA events because he's an all time great, So I mean, as good as it all was, and Fetter was, Djokovic is still winning those tournaments. Three all time greats simultaneously. You could argue, although Feeder's a little older in their prime, they still won those all those majors because they're three all time greats, as McEnroe was, as Borg was, and they were simultaneously. I think they were simultaneously in their prime. So that that's the thing with Aaron. It's like Aaron Brady Manning and Big Ben were on the other ledger. You got to get to Super Bowls and he got the one, and you could say, well, who do you have as coach? He had offensive coaches? Well what did he have? Support? They always had good offensive lines. I mean, now Green Bay doesn't get the free agents that other organizations do, but I would argue in the last twenty five years they've drafted better than any organization in the league. I really believe that they draft and develop, especially O line, They draft and develop as well as anybody in the league. So it's I've always said I don't know what to do, because, as Aaron has been talking in the last couple of weeks, he said, I don't want to play in Louisiana. I'm not going to be a Saint, so where he plays matters. He said he'd play for ten million dollars, so salary doesn't matter. He's telling you it's not about the money, it's about where I play. And at a recent event he talked about, you know, he talked about maybe I could go to Green Bay. So I'm not even sure right now if he wants to be a starter, But I've if you retire today, where to put him. Jim Kelly, by the way, who also played in another league. I mean, think how good you can say what you want about Jim Kelly. He got the four Super Bowls and a lot of his career was in another league. So Jim Kelly has to be considered an all time Greade to me, Now, he didn't win him. He was going up against the Dynasty and the Dallas Cowboys, but the fact is Jim got to four of them. So I think when you talk about all time greats, if Aaron retired today, I've never quite known like like, I've never quite known what to do. Nick. Here was Aaron over the weekend asked about the possibility as retiring as a Packer.

I've thought about that, and I don't understand what the uh what the reason for that is. You know, at the same time, I grew up a Niner fan and most of my my favorite players retired as a Niner. So I understand the thing about it. But if I didn't do it, would that make a difference in how I'm viewed in the Packers' eyes. There's a lot of love for me and how I feel about the team. If I do, if I don't, I don't think you should make a difference. I'm not sure yet. If they approached me about it, I probably would.

I've thought about that, and I don't understand what the uh what the reason for that is. You know, at the same time, I grew up a Niner fan and most of my my favorite players retired as a Niner. So I understand the thing about it. But if I didn't do it, would that make a difference in how I'm viewed in the Packers' eyes. There's a lot of love for me and how I feel about the team. If I do, if I don't, I don't think you should make a difference. I'm not sure yet. If they approached me about it, I probably would.

So Nick Wright and I were talking about this earlier. If Aaron retired today, Nick says he's top ten, And I struggle with it because the stuff that matters is Super Bowl appearances and wins division titles. I mean, if you can't win Super Bowls, you've got to dominate your division. Big Ben dominates his division, Brady dominates his division. Got to dominate your division. I want productivity. I'll give you some MVPs I do not care about passer rating at all in your playoff record, and playoff records are they're hard. Both Farv and Aaron Rodgers were around five hundred. I get it. I think Farv has a couple more wins than the playoffs, but it's hard you're playing the best teams. But I also would say that green Bay has a bit of a weather advantage. I mean for dome teams and warm weather teams going to Green Bay. Like you can remember Michael Vick winning there, like it was so shocking. You are not shocked when a cold weather team goes down to a dome and wins. That's much easier. So I don't know. I mean again, I'm not saying Aaron's not a top twelve to fifteen quarterback of all time, but when he's talking about retiring, he's a Hall of Famer. He's first ballot. Some like far More. I always preferred Aaron as a quarterback. I thought he was more of a thinking person's quarterback. I don't know what to do with him all time, and I don't know what to do with Dan Marino. NBA style matters, NFL winning matters, especially in January and February and Marino didn't win a lot there, And I think a lot of it's on Dan. It's not on Shula, it's not on the organization. And Aaron didn't win a lot, didn't dominate the NFC. I think some of it's on Aaron. I never thought he was a fox old guy. People can push back, that's fine, but that's kind of where we stand now. Here's Nick earlier on Aaron Rodgers, sort of the all time debate if he retired today since the merger.

So Nick Wright and I were talking about this earlier. If Aaron retired today, Nick says he's top ten, And I struggle with it because the stuff that matters is Super Bowl appearances and wins division titles. I mean, if you can't win Super Bowls, you've got to dominate your division. Big Ben dominates his division, Brady dominates his division. Got to dominate your division. I want productivity. I'll give you some MVPs I do not care about passer rating at all in your playoff record, and playoff records are they're hard. Both Farv and Aaron Rodgers were around five hundred. I get it. I think Farv has a couple more wins than the playoffs, but it's hard you're playing the best teams. But I also would say that green Bay has a bit of a weather advantage. I mean for dome teams and warm weather teams going to Green Bay. Like you can remember Michael Vick winning there, like it was so shocking. You are not shocked when a cold weather team goes down to a dome and wins. That's much easier. So I don't know. I mean again, I'm not saying Aaron's not a top twelve to fifteen quarterback of all time, but when he's talking about retiring, he's a Hall of Famer. He's first ballot. Some like far More. I always preferred Aaron as a quarterback. I thought he was more of a thinking person's quarterback. I don't know what to do with him all time, and I don't know what to do with Dan Marino. NBA style matters, NFL winning matters, especially in January and February and Marino didn't win a lot there, And I think a lot of it's on Dan. It's not on Shula, it's not on the organization. And Aaron didn't win a lot, didn't dominate the NFC. I think some of it's on Aaron. I never thought he was a fox old guy. People can push back, that's fine, but that's kind of where we stand now. Here's Nick earlier on Aaron Rodgers, sort of the all time debate if he retired today since the merger.

I think there are to me, six guys I would clearly have ahead of Aaron, and then five or six guys he's right there with them. And the Marino part is tricky because you're right, he's got none of the winning. But the flip side to that is literally every person that covered the league in the eighties or played, they all swear a blood oath that he's one of the greatest players anyone's ever seen. And so I and I feel like there is some of that same almost mythological aspect to Aaron, which is guys who played with him and against him talk about his talent in such an amazing way.

I think there are to me, six guys I would clearly have ahead of Aaron, and then five or six guys he's right there with them. And the Marino part is tricky because you're right, he's got none of the winning. But the flip side to that is literally every person that covered the league in the eighties or played, they all swear a blood oath that he's one of the greatest players anyone's ever seen. And so I and I feel like there is some of that same almost mythological aspect to Aaron, which is guys who played with him and against him talk about his talent in such an amazing way.

Yeah, and maybe it's just as simple as this. Athletes quarterbacks consider Aaron all time top ten, but I think you have to consider this. If he is top ten, what happens If Josh Allen wins a Super Bowl, He's absolutely gonna push him out. What happens if Lamar wins a Super Bowl with a seventy six percent winning percentage in a division with Joe Burrow the Steelers, that could push him out. So if Aaron is top ten, it's probably nine to ten ish, And there's no question Mahomes is already in there. I'm not that far from I mean, Alan May ended up being Marino, where you don't get the Super Bowls, but you get everything else. And maybe Josh Allen is our current Dan Marino. But in terms of an athlete playing quarterback, I think Josh Allen's the most talented quarterback I've ever seen, second hal Way, third Mahomes just talent. The other thing is, I'll throw this out there, Jay Mac, this is one we've talked about. If Stafford wins another Super Bowl, you think it's crazy. He was a better high school quarterback than Aaron, a better college quarterback, a better first four year in the league quarterback, and a much better quarterback late. I think Stafford has signed that team friendly deal because I think Stafford is aware that with another super Bowl he moves into eight. I mean, you can say what you want about Stafford. Look at Stafford's playoff record. He just had the dysfunction of Detroit in the prime of his career. But if Stafford wins another Super Bowl, I'm sorry, he is really close to top ten all time, really close, because he's been a good regular season quarterback where Eli.

Yeah, and maybe it's just as simple as this. Athletes quarterbacks consider Aaron all time top ten, but I think you have to consider this. If he is top ten, what happens If Josh Allen wins a Super Bowl, He's absolutely gonna push him out. What happens if Lamar wins a Super Bowl with a seventy six percent winning percentage in a division with Joe Burrow the Steelers, that could push him out. So if Aaron is top ten, it's probably nine to ten ish, And there's no question Mahomes is already in there. I'm not that far from I mean, Alan May ended up being Marino, where you don't get the Super Bowls, but you get everything else. And maybe Josh Allen is our current Dan Marino. But in terms of an athlete playing quarterback, I think Josh Allen's the most talented quarterback I've ever seen, second hal Way, third Mahomes just talent. The other thing is, I'll throw this out there, Jay Mac, this is one we've talked about. If Stafford wins another Super Bowl, you think it's crazy. He was a better high school quarterback than Aaron, a better college quarterback, a better first four year in the league quarterback, and a much better quarterback late. I think Stafford has signed that team friendly deal because I think Stafford is aware that with another super Bowl he moves into eight. I mean, you can say what you want about Stafford. Look at Stafford's playoff record. He just had the dysfunction of Detroit in the prime of his career. But if Stafford wins another Super Bowl, I'm sorry, he is really close to top ten all time, really close, because he's been a good regular season quarterback where Eli.

Wasn't settled down there, big guy. A lot of ifs with Josh Allen and if Lamara and Stafford. Let's just deal with the numbers. Because you mentioned Elway earlier. And when I hear Elway and I say Rogers for sure, I go down a rabbit hole. Colin, I know you're not gonna want to hear this. Elway versus Rogers is super interesting. I'll just start with this. Every statistical category almost Aaron Rodgers destroys him, and I love Elway. Elway has a better culture of winning super Bowls obviously, and comebacks. John Away was the master of comebacks. Rogers does not have a surprisingly low number of comebacks. That's right, But if you just look at it from pure quarterbacking, Aaron Rodgers is top five and that's undeniable.

Wasn't settled down there, big guy. A lot of ifs with Josh Allen and if Lamara and Stafford. Let's just deal with the numbers. Because you mentioned Elway earlier. And when I hear Elway and I say Rogers for sure, I go down a rabbit hole. Colin, I know you're not gonna want to hear this. Elway versus Rogers is super interesting. I'll just start with this. Every statistical category almost Aaron Rodgers destroys him, and I love Elway. Elway has a better culture of winning super Bowls obviously, and comebacks. John Away was the master of comebacks. Rogers does not have a surprisingly low number of comebacks. That's right, But if you just look at it from pure quarterbacking, Aaron Rodgers is top five and that's undeniable.

From the just remember Aaron's career is in a passing league. Elway it was a much more defense could do anything they wanted back then go look, go look at what defense could do then to a wide receiver and a quarterback, and I was.

From the just remember Aaron's career is in a passing league. Elway it was a much more defense could do anything they wanted back then go look, go look at what defense could do then to a wide receiver and a quarterback, and I was.

Like, I was a huge fan of Elwick, was distraught when he couldn't win until he got Durell Davis.

Like, I was a huge fan of Elwick, was distraught when he couldn't win until he got Durell Davis.

But Rogers not top ten.

But Rogers not top ten.

That's one of your hotter takes.

That's one of your hotter takes.

Of twenty twenty five. I'm not saying he couldn't be eleven. I'm not saying it's not five to five than ten.

Of twenty twenty five. I'm not saying he couldn't be eleven. I'm not saying it's not five to five than ten.

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