Colin talks to former head coach Chris Peterson about Caleb Williams and why he’s struggled to adjust to the NFL after a prolific college career
Ric Bucher also stops by to talk about The NBA Finals and why the Pacers are giving the Thunder so much trouble
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Here we go.
It is a Friday, getting fired out one of my favorites. Chris Peterson's a couple of minutes away, one of the smartest guys in football. Great article in The Athletic about Sean McVay and Chris Peterson this week my favorite article ever in the Athletic and coach will be here in a couple of minutes. So jamac as we go to the second hour on a Friday. One of the things I don't like to do, but I do ever, I do have strong opinions on quarterbacks. I like to go into a draft and tell people's I'm gonna take a side on these quarterbacks. And there have been a handful. I've really not thought we're gonna work. I said, the t bow things, it's mythology. It's not gonna work. Manziell's not gonna work, Zach Wilson's not gonna work, Daniel Jones, Will Webs, JaMarcus Russell. I've come out when I when I've really come out and said it's not gonna work. I think I've been right now. There have been guys that I've been higher on. Obviously, I love Trevor Lawrence, Andrew Luck. Trevor has not delivered yet. I was high on Sam Darnold. I think last year validated some of my opinions. It's pretty special. But I will say Eldor Sanders Shadoor Sanders is different. I don't love him like I like Andrew Luck or Sam Darnald. I don't think he's that kind of athlete. But when you see the numbers and I watched them in college. When you see the numbers that he's completed seventy seven percent of his throws in OTA's in mini camp and he set the all time accuracy record in college behind a bad old line and no run.
Game, it is kind of startling.
It's like, Wow, So do I think he's a franchise quarterback? I do, But you know, Brian Dabele had issues reportedly from reporters I trust, and Mary kay Cabot says the Cleveland staff is kind of it's slow growth. They're not giving him the whole playbook here yet they are. Dylan Gabriel, I don't know that to be true, but I trust Mary kay Cabot. Here is Stefanski again talking about Shador Sanders.
He's a very very hard worker. He has fun when he's in the building. I'm enjoying watching him progress with every single meeting, with every single rep. He's doing a great job. And I think as a young player, I don't care what position you're playing, you're going to run a play or you're gonna get something wrong. That's so valuable because then you get to correct it get it right the next time. And he's doing a really, really nice job. I think he's showing up early, he's staying late, and he continues to get better every single day.
And that's the fun part.
Okay.
So now the other thing that we know to be true for all rookie quarterbacks is who's your first NFL coach. You can do a lot worse than Kevin Stefanski. Now that helps Dylan Gabriel as well, But I do think that's a benefit for Shadear Sanders. Eric Mangini used to coach the Browns, came on yesterday. He said, Cowherd pomp the brakes.
There is a desperation coming off with Deshaun Watson for some quarterback to emerge, for some hope to be there for the franchise. And they thought Sudor could could potentially be a you know, a high pick form and then they get him in the fifth round. So it's just it exploded in Cleveland the second that he got here. And what Kevin Stephanski is trying to do is he's trying to tamper it down. He's trying to push it down. And you see all of his reps have been with the back end guys. He hasn't gotten any reps with the Ones. To me that that's a good decision because as soon as he gets in with the Ones, then the hype train's gonna roll even further.
And there's no question I mean Cleveland, because they have struggled historically, they're just dying for a star quarterback. They want their Joe Burrow. You know, they passed on Mahomes. They want their Joe Burrow. They want their Lamar. They want their mahomes, so they go crazy when they get Baker, Johnny Manseller, Deshaun Watson and that. You can feel the hysteria building for Shador Sanders, But I kind of get it because they've missed so many times.
Baker worked for a short term.
With that. Chris Peterson is joining US Live Fox Sports college football analysts.
You know, it's funny about this stuff.
I was talking about Caleb earlier, and I was a big fan of Caleb. And I went to dinner last night with the Bears president and I said, I said he was magical for the first year at USC and the first six games of the second and I said.
Then that Notre Dame game happened.
He got sacked six times, and I think Lincoln Riley and Caleb lost trust in the old line and he got into really bad habits. And I thought last year in Chicago the coaching staff didn't correct those habits. From what you've seen of Caleb, the stuff we like about him, Chris is pretty obvious. Are there things you've looked at and that if you coached him, you would be like, hey, I got to clean this up with Caleb Williams.
I haven't studied them calling as much as you have.
But I'll say this, you know, one of the harder guys for me to ever coach in my career has been scrambling quarterbacks that are really athletic and their legs are as much of a weapon as their arm is, because there's such a fine line between when you should take off and when you should hang in, and it's one of those things like no no no no, yes yes, yes, yes and so and then you lose trust in your O line. Well you know what's going to happen. So you know, this guy is a phenomenal talent. But I think at the NFL level, one of those superpowers that these guys have to have is their pocket presence. There needs to be an instinct in there. They need to be trained in there, and really to be one of the elite guys, they have to be elite in the pocket. I mean, if you just go back to the Tom Brady, who you know can't run it all, couldn't run it all. I mean, that guy was so phenomenal in the pocket. I mean that was his superpower in my opinion.
So Chador is not a runner.
You've seen plenty of him, he's he's he's more like Kirk to me, He's got his comp could be Kirk Cousins and maybe a little more movement.
Is there something?
Give me what you liked about him and something you saw as an analyst and thought that that's a little that's concerning.
Yeah, well I did like him a lot.
I saw flashes where you saw the arm, talent, the anticipation, I mean, the accuracy, So all those things you did see. I mean at Colorado there was a I put together a highlight one time in Washington.
I was like, oh man, this guy's got something.
But then going back to our campnversation, we just had the weakness that I thought he had was pocket presence, Like Schador to me is athletic, but he's not very fast, certainly by NFL standards. So he is going to have to like minimize what we're seeing on tape right here and learn to get really good in that pocket. And if he does and gets comfortable there, which is a big f I think he can be really good.
So this next question, I got a lot of pushback apparently on this. Thank god, I don't really read my phone or email, but I got a lot of pushback. I said, Listen, college football has pivoted to the playoff, and the responsibility of Ryan Day is to get to that playoff. And it's like college basketball. Tom Izzo's job at Michigan State. Get to March. I don't care. You can lose to your rival. You'll keep your job if you get into the sweet sixteen in March. Those checks keep getting cashed. And so I look at Lincoln Riley and I say to myself, he didn't get to play Oregon State anymore, or Washington State, or cow or Arizona. Now it's Ohio State. It's going to be on the docket, and Michigan and Penn State. The travel's worse, the weather's worse. And also the two teams, the three teams that followed him to the Big Ten are Oregon, Washington, and his rival. So I can see Lincoln and USC going, Guys, we'll play Notre Dame occasionally early in the season. We don't want to have an annual November game. And I defend blowing up that rivalry. Urban Meyer doesn't like it. But from a coaching standpoint, how does it land for you? Potentially not making that a regular game?
I get one hundred percent where the Trojans are coming from.
Now, do I like that for the greater good of football? Absolutely not, No one does it. Loves college football.
That's one of the most historic ribberries in all of college football. So it's like, wait, what what are you doing? But I get it because you said it. It is about getting to the college football playoffs. And you know, I actually like the selection committee. I kind of like that subjectivity. But one thing that I do think has been a little bit skewed with them is strength of schedule. They always talk about that, but when it push comes to shove in my mind, when I look about who they put in, they lean very heavily on the wins and losses, maybe more so than the strength of schedule. You know, I look at the March madness like you were talking about, and you know, they have all these metrics and no one seems to debate those on strength of schedule and RPI and all those type of things. And I think if college football brought that a little bit more into the game with the committee, I think you can make for a good formula.
So listen, most college football coaches, yourself potentially included, are they love tradition of it. And there's a lot of movement. There's the playoff, there's the nil, there's the transfer portal. Now, the thing that bothers me more than everything is the transfer portal. Because my take is I don't mind if you transfer. I don't like you transfer in three times. First of all, I actually don't think it's good for the kid. I think you have to fight through bad situations in life. And if it was up to me, I would say, you get a transfer, but you can't transfer more than once over eighteen months. That'll give you about two in college. You don't get a transfer every year. And you could say, well, coaches leave, they don't leave every eighteen months. That's not the way it works. And coaches, by the way, are bosses. Players are employees. My bosses at Fox get things that I don't get. That's the name of the game. But if I said to you what needs more tweaking going forward, the transfer portal or the ni.
L What scares you a little bit? What worries you more?
Colin, if I'm hearing you right, are you trying to lobby to be the commissioner of college football?
Because I think I think we take you. I think we would.
I mean, here's the thing about what's going on, and I think most fans understand this. There's a lot of good information out there. There's a lot of logic some of the things you're talking about. The problem is everything's getting sued right now, and the lawsuits are not over yet, even though the House settlement's coming down and it gives us a little more structure, but who knows how that's gonna last.
But there's no question, you know the NIL.
I think every most people in the game, the coaches, the players, they admit they get the NIL. I think everybody's on board with that. There's no question. It's the transfer portal and the tampering and you know, a guy going to five schools in five years and all, and it's you're right, it's not better for the kids in the long run. There's just no real structure to it. And I will tell you me, being not on the sidelines, my whole heart and souls into the greater good of college football. And it's just like I worry. I talk to so many fans like you do. They're getting so fed up with the college game.
You know.
It's like I've heard so many people like I'm out. I'm not renewing my tickets. I'm done with college football. And it's because of for a lot of these longtime fans, they have a hard time wrapping their mind around paying the players. That ship is sailed. I think they can get over that. But what they don't want to do is pay these players and then have them leave every year. You don't even know who the players are. And I think you're feeling that even more so in college basketball. To me, college basketball problems are always a couple of years in front of football, the extremness of it, and you're seeing that in Calle. You know, I used to be the biggest college basketball fan and I can't even follow college basketball.
So I know that's coming in college.
Football unless we put some some guardrails on this thing.
So I hope it gets worked out sooner than later.
Yeah, And I also think if you the transfer portal is one of those things It's like in life, Oh, I make more money, I'm happier.
Where more money, more problems.
And I look at the transfer portal and you say, oh, I'm gonna go buy I can go buy a starting corner. Brian Kelly Lincoln Riley, Dion Sanders. A lot of these programs that brought in heavy transfers, their chemistry is no good. So I still like Deebo Samuel Davo Sweeney this year is gonna have a great team. He doesn't believe in the portal in the nil So I still believe you have to build through high schools.
Okay.
I want to go to this article Sean McVay and if you haven't read it, folks, it's just great. And basically Sean was going through a personal crisis a couple of years ago and you reached out to him and said, hey, I know what you're going through. Sean McVay is one of those people that I remember the first time I saw him at the podium, I was like, how old is he?
He should be a president.
When you when with your conversations with Sean McVeigh, have you ever met a coach maybe at that age especially, what to you is the secret sauce to him? Because I think there's an argument even with Andy Reid, he is the best coach in America right now, you can argue college or probly maybe the best coach in the world. What jumped out to you as a veteran coach with him.
Colin, I think you're exactly right. I think this might be the best coach in the world. I mean, and I'll tell you why. The guy is truly a football savant. I can't tell you the type of mind he has, how he remembers things plays.
You know, We've been talking for a couple of.
Years, things that I said to him, you know, years back, that he'll bring up, and I'm thinking I said that he doesn't forget anything. So this guy true knows offense defense inside and out. He could be a world class defensive coordinator. So he truly is the best in terms of x's and o's, as good as anyone that I've certainly encountered. But to me, what makes him so special is, you know, before he's what thirty eighty, he won a Super Bowl, been to another one, and has the humility to say, yeah, this isn't working so well. You know, all those things that we've been after our whole life isn't feeling exactly how it should feel. And for him at that point to say I need to figure some things out and then make the changes, it is phenomenal. Like this guy is an inspiration to me, and I can't wait till more coaches get to hear him talk, because first of all, most coaches that are in the hot seat in their current positions aren't going to talk about being miserable and how hard this is. They're just not They're not going to go there. Sean Will, he's that secure that he has that type of humility and it's just aweso.
And then for him to go.
And work to change his own game, it's just really like nothing I've ever seen. And so he's an inspiration across, you know, in terms of the total package of like because it's that thing, like you know when you talk about change, and you know, it's that cartoon you ask, Hey, who thinks we need to change? And everybody raises their hand, and then the next question is, Okay, who wants to change?
Nobody's going to raise their hand, right.
I Mean, the hardest thing we have to do in life is probably change ourselves.
And this guy is full on embrace that.
And so for a guy it's accomplished as much as he has, as smart as he is to have the humility, the self awareness to go I need to change some of these things to help myself.
And this pro it has been. It's an inspiration.
I can't wait for more people to really figure out and listen to Sean Talk.
Chris Peterson one of my absolute favorites. Fourteen years as a head coach Boise State for eight, Washington for six, Coach of the Year, two time Bear Brian Award winner.
We love having him at Fox.
Izoa's coach and I appreciate you on a I imagine a drizzly day in Seattle once again joining our show.
I appreciate you, Colin. It's great to talk to you. And how many days do we actually have?
You know, college football is kind of a train wreck outside of the Saturdays, but on Saturdays, let's Joe.
Absolutely it's a little messy, a little chaotic.
Chris Peterson great stuff Fox Sports. Also today, Rik Buker Stu Holden stops. But I gotta tell you something that that that United States men's national team for match losing streak and Christian Holistic not joining the team. So I'm on team Polistic on this one. He's the world he's our best player, and I think the signal he is sending is World Cup is won. Being a star and being paid eight figures annually is two, and all the other stuff like the Gold Cup, that's a distant third.
And I think he's right.
I think as are American soccer players have elevated to the point of starring in Europe country first, cash second, all the regional tournaments distant third. So I support it. Alexi Lawless does it. We'll talk to Stuholden next hour.
It's the Herd.
One more Herd. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you like.
The night is big could be historic.
Teams that go ahead three games to one and the history of the NBA are thirty seven and one in the finals. Okay, so Indiana's fourth quarter supremacy. Okay see starts fast, Indy finishes strong. It's at Indy. Okay see look, gas didn't get a lot of time to rest. Indy is great at home. Okasee is very vulnerable at home. Ok C needs the whistle. When they get the whistle. When SGA gets to the free throw line more than eight times, they're nine and two. If not, they're a five hundred team. Jmack with the news.
No, no, turn on the news.
This is the herd Line news.
You've heard of the Merchant of Venice, the Merchant of Oklahoma.
That's going to be the new one when they win the title. All right, con let's get started here with my main man, J. J. McCarthy.
Now, I came on filling in for you weeks ago and really gasped up the vikings. I liked him, and you came on this week and hammered the vikings and JJ McCarthy, well, the Minnesota media take took note and asked JJ McCarthy yesterday about the narrative of his allegedly weak arm strength.
I would say, you know, a lot of it just comes with the stigma of plant Michigan and you know, not throwing the ball a lot. But at the same time, you know it could be my frame. And you know, they don't see a six five two forty guy, So how can you throw at sixty one miles an hour at the combine and all that. But at the end of the day, you know it's gonna show up, and you know the people that know know, and uh yeah, I think it's just you know, the situations I've been in and maybe you know, not passing the eye test for some people.
Now, first of all, the word I use to describe his arm strength was modest. His arm is He's got a modest arm. It's okay, it's it's Kirk Cousin's ish. It's not a bad arm. He didn't have a noodle arm.
Time out.
Let me just interject with a fact.
At the combine he had the second highest velocity on his throat sixty one miles an hour, behind only your immortal hero Joe Milton. Remember with the Patriots, Now I believe with the Cowboys, So carry on, Kerry.
Again.
His arm is fine. Do I think it's Alan Mahomes Stafford? Do I think it's No, I don't. I think it's It'll be somewhere between, you know, twelfth and seventeenth in the It'll be. It'll be fine. He's got a fine I watched them at Michigan. His arm is okay. His arm ischiandor Sanders. It won't be an issue, it won't be a strainth it's fine.
I would push back on that, but let me move on to the next element of this. JJ McCarthy. So obviously the media was really excited about this. I'm not kidding.
They took your word and were grilling McCarthy. Do you think honestly he turned the hat backwards because he knows that's the thing. You go like, I'm being dead serious, Colin.
No, I don't think he's aware of that.
Lot of people people are.
This is like a running joke among players, the hat backwards.
It's a real thing.
You may well know.
I have had the lecture a handful of players through the years. When I see them in person, I've told them I don't like it. I told bow Nicks don't do that. But nobody listens to me, And I think, again, I don't know what I said this yesterday. I like mystery with my true crime series, not with my quarterbacks. I just like to I'm getting a lot of conflicting reports. Much like Snor Sanders, he got a great landing spot, justin Jefferson a great left tackle, and Kevin O'Connell, and just like Cleveland Kevin Stefanski.
Like that helps? So do I think that helps?
So?
I think it's harder to be Caleb Williams with Matt eber Fluse than JJ McCarthy or bow Nix to get an offensive coach that I think that's about fifty percent of the game for these young quarterbacks. It's who do you land with chaos or an offensive guy. So I'm just I'm not saying it's not gonna work. I just I see mystery. His arm is modest, But you.
Should have seen Patrick Mahomes getting the gifted landing spot of Andy Reid. And oh, by the way, that guy, I believe his name was Tyreek Hill, who was an electrifying game breaking receiver at the time. So you know, Mahomes, he got it better than JJ McCarthy's got it. And he got to sit for a year behind Alex Smith. That's about as good as he gets. Let's get to the next story, and that's the forty nine ers Colin.
Big off season.
For them on the defensive side of the football, and they made some offensive moves as well. They do retain the core of Perdy, Kittle and Warner, not to mention McCaffrey coming off of six and eleven season. Steve Young loves how the front office handle things.
I'm very happy with how they handled the off season. Had a clear plan. It was a plan that was it was retooling. It wasn't a complete restructure. Now what has to happen is your veterans need to stay healthy. Trent Williams number.
One, that's exactly He is exactly right the story for the Niners because you've lost two very good defensive players in the linebacking unit and the safety spot. Trent Williams is the key. Dbo's gone. Now, cross your fingers on Ayuk's health. It's and by the way, cross your fingers on Christian McCaffrey's health. He's got a lot of carries and Trent Williams. That's the key to this whole. You know, I've told you before. Take Brock pretty out of it. When Christian McCaffrey doesn't play, Shanahan's record is under five hundred. Forget Brock. When Christian doesn't play, they.
Don't win as much. Do you think he's gonna play seventeen games. I don't.
I don't want to playing seventeen games. Take some weeks off.
When you're you know, twelve and three in coasting to the number one seed in the NFC final story Collin is to the NBA.
Now this is interesting.
We get a slow drip almost daily of Yiannis crumbs coming out of Milwaukee. The latest, which I think is total boulder dash. Milwaukee allegedly is is pitching Yannis on Hey, hey, you can have the ball in your hands more next season if you stay. And here's a problem.
He led the.
League in usage this past season, Like, what the hell are you talking about?
Bucks?
Then that's why I just don't believe this crap. And a lot of those guys are point guards or guards that are heavy with the ball. Gianni's is a big con. I just don't get it. He was second in touches per game behind Dame on his team, so he's getting the ball a lot.
And I don't want him with a ball which two minutes left because he's not a good free throw shooter. So's if that's the pitch. If that's your pitch, it's not much of a pitch. I've said this. You got a title with Luel Sinder at the time you got a title with Yannis. A lot of these small markets, I mean, if you look at dynasties the history Boston, San Francisco, Los Angeles, multiple times, Chicago players more attracted to those areas. A lot of the small markets that win, they get one. A majority of the small markets who are really good don't even get one. You got one, pat yourself on the bet you got one. You can get four firsts. I mean if you go to if you going to Houston, you could get Sheng Goon another starter and three first minimum in an era over the next ten years where draft picks are going to be better players because college basketball, due to the NIL, is retaining more of its top players and stealing more of Europe's top young players. So like to me, draft picks are better going forward than they have in the previous ten to fifteen years. So I mean to me this fear sometimes of small markets of oh, we're losing our star. Oklahoma City, Westbrook hardened, Kevin Durant left. They're back in the finals because they came to terms with some guys aren't happy. What we're not gonna do is bottom out. And I think Milwaukee's closer to bottoming out even with Giannis.
Than being grey.
Now do what Boston did. Danny Ainge rebuilt the Celtics. They were still viable. Milwaukee's not a viable team right.
Now, Colin, just to hammer home your point, listen, I get it. Milwaukee was excited that Janis, who was taking what thirteenth overall, became a star.
Like a global ambassador. But fans need to realize, like.
Hey, man, we drafted you.
You played here for eight nine years.
If you want to go somewhere else, that's your prerogative.
You can do that. I hate this idea that fans.
Think, hey, we drafted that guy, he's ours forever.
That's not how life works.
If Jannis wants to go see the world or America, let him do it. This idea, if he asked for a trading and people blast him and rip.
Him, listen, I'm just I'm gonna hate that.
Man.
Ninety percent of even great pro athletes do not do a Kobe or a Jeter or an l way. It doesn't work that way, especially in the mobility of society. So I don't know how many years Jiannis is beginning to end been in Milwaukee's over ten years.
Right from the.
Dad and Lebron with Okay, you've got.
Division titles, you've got conference champions, you've got a ring. Now go get four draft picks. Shen Goon an All Star center another starter rebuild. I love, by the way, one of the fun parts about being a sports fan.
Is the growth, the rebuild.
I mean, you don't think these okay See fan've been selling out every game for like five years. These Okase fans, they love this. All these guys are young. That's part of what's great about basketball or football is the rebuild. Now, you can do it faster in football than basketball. But I mean, how exciting would it be if you're tomorrow? I tell you the Bucks have four first rounders, an all star center from Houston, another center that's not exciting, and you gotta girl with the team.
J mckle the news, Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the Herd Line Newsian.
It's been there twelve years.
Rick Buker thoughts on tonight, Indiana wins tonight, they're winning the championship. They're winning the championship thirty seven and one. If you take a three games to one lead, it is there isn't outside of Indiana. There's not a GM, a coach or a player that would have pick the Pacers. This is crazy and we may see some history. Rick Bucher.
Next, be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays and Noone Eastern nin am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
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We never have enough time to get to everything we want to get.
To and that's why we have a brand new podcast called over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun in our two hour show. We never get to everything, honestly, because this guy is over promising things we never have time for.
Yeah, you blubber lit me.
Well, you know what it's called over promise. You should be good at it because you've been over promising women for years.
Well, it's a Covino and Rich after show, and we want you to be a part of it. We're gonna be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing about something or we didn't have enough time, it will continue on our after show called over Promised.
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It's gonna be the best after show podcast of all time.
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Well tonight, everything is on the line. I said this a couple of days ago. Here's the bad news for OKC. They're a young team and all the pressures on them. I mean it feels like Indy's been playing with house money since Milwaukee. So the younger team is on the road where they're not nearly as good and all the pressures on them to win because of the favorite ow and by the way they've struggled in the fourth quarter, and I would argue the best playoff fourth quarter team is Indiana in the playoffs. There are a lot of things, and I had said this before the series. A favorite, They're very rarely in my life has a favorite to win the NBA Championship in the finals, been one of the younger teams. How young players react to trying to clinch this series even if they're the better team, and right now I'm not sure they're the better team. Rick Buker is joining US Live You and I were talking during the break. There's I think Indiana knew kind of what they were getting, this ten deep, defensive rush, dominant score. I don't know if OKC thought Benedict Mathern was this good and TJ McConnell was this irritating. I feel like you have these two ascending young players and they're creating havoc and OKAC has been dislodged a little bit.
And that's my take. This Matherin kid.
I mean, I said the other day, there's a little Westbrook here, like his energy.
You loved him out of college.
Yes, yes, I know. I loved him when he got drafted. I loved his attitude coming out, was fearless, and I believe that he could be this kind of guy. He needed to pull it back a little bit and become a little more efficient, but he has done that and he has been a difference maker.
Oka See.
I believe knew what they were going to be facing when it came to Indiana. I think the rest of the world did not has not appreciated what the Pacers have had and how perfectly constructed they are to create problems for OKC, and that we think okay See of having the depth and versatility, and they had that, but so does Indiana and they also and this may be the biggest difference they have in Rick Carlisle, a guy who's already won a championship, manipulating an underdog roster and winning a title. He's been to the playoffs sixteen times. He's won a championship with a team under similar circumstances. Mark Dagnall is a fifth year head coach making his second appearance in the final in the playoffs and has never been to the finals before, and so he's having to react and CounterPunch with a guy who just understands this platform and what he's doing on a far higher level. And I think that that's why you're seeing Rick Carlile do something very unorthodox. He's playing a nine man rotation. You had nine guys in Game three play play fifteen minutes or more for the Indiana Pacers. Oklahoma City Thunder went with the traditional seven seven man rotation, and you saw them gassed and exhausted.
The Pacers pressed.
Them ninety four feet for forty eight minutes. He where Carlisle decided, you know what, I don't know if my stars are as great as their stars, But I believe that I'm more versatile, and I'm going to test the endurance. I'm going to make this a war of attrition because that's the one thing that I have is I believe that I have more players that I can play more minutes than OKC can. They've got to rely on their stars, Jalen Williams and SGA to drive the bus on everything. I've got a Benedict Mathern coming off the bench and a TJ. McConnell who can go get their own buckets, and I can give Tyrese Halliburton and Pascal Siakam some rest so that when we do get to the fourth quarter, all my bodies are fresh.
You know, with the new aprons and the CBA, you can't stack rosters anymore. Looston was the last one to have like a little bit of a stack roster.
I would argue that point guard.
I mean, when I was a kid growing up, centers one titles, then it was Jordan and Kobe, it was wings. I think we can make an argument that point guards, efficient point guards that can score and elevate could be the next ten years. You can't stack rosters, so what you have to do is get a player that can elevate others and make B guys B plus B plus guys A minus. I think Halliburton could be the model. Maybe I'm being hyperbolic here, but all these Aprons, we're done with stacking. It's over. You can't do that. And I look at Halliburton, I'm like, that is the ideal player for Adam Silver's new NBA, Is it not.
I believe that whether it's a point guard or a point forward, but having a playmaker or multiple playmakers is the answer.
Because one of.
The things that makes Indiana again so challenging is that it's not just Haliburton, but Andrew Nemhart handles the ball and initiates the offense as much as Halliburton does. They've got multiple TJ. McConnell coming off the bench. You have multiple guys who wouldn't be described as great but just very good. And they have eight to nine players as a result that can feed off of those playmakers and are not going to cost you the same as having like the Phoenix Suns with Bradley Beal and Devin Booker and Kevin Durant. I don't believe that the big three model has worked for the last four or five years. If you really break down the teams that have won championships, but having playmakers who can make lesser players better and scorers and guys who don't necessarily I really have to score, who can just create for others. I do believe that that's the secret sauce and having depth and versatility and spreading the wealth literally in terms of how you spend your money is the future of the NBA.
So listen, Katie is easier to trade for than Yannis because you don't have to give up as much draft capital. And I've made this argument, Rick, I think over the next ten to fifteen years, we're going to go back to the old the Tim Duncan era, the Christian the Grant Hill era, where college players are on a percentage basis going to be safer picks because more players because of NIL are staying for another year in college and the NIL is cherry picking many of the top European players. Illinois is going to have five Europeans international starters. So college basketball went through about a twenty year run where the player of the year at Doug McDermott or a Tyler Hansborough is a rotational NBA guy, And I think two years ago that Ucon team that won is the beginning of the next decade of If you got six NBA guys, these guys are going to come in and be able to play. So I think draft picks will mean more going forward. So I don't want to give him up. You don't have to give up much for KD. Is there is there a fit that you I don't think it works in San Antonio, But is there a fit to you where he really works and a team has the capital to get him?
Boy, that's a tough question.
I would say no, not necessarily because the first teams that come to mind are Minnesota and New York in terms of a place where he could go and would be playing for a title and potentially make a difference. But you're going to have to give up. Even if you're not giving up draft capital, you still have to give up players from your rotation. And can KD at this stage of his career be a big enough factor to make up for the players that you have to give up. People seem to forget that when he went to the Golden State Warriors. Yes, they let Harrison Barnes go, but for the most part, it was because there was this big bonanza of TV money that came in that they could sign him as a free agent, and at that point KD still had the wherewithal to become their best rebounder, to be a shot blocker, to be a defensive presence, and at the same time be their leading scorer or have an impact offensively. I just don't know that he has the game at this point, and the teams that would be looking to acquire him have the wherewithal to make a deal that's not going to undercut them overall. They're not just adding KD to what they have. They're going to have to give up pieces of some magnitude contract wise in order to acquire him.
Finally, tonight, J Mack has been very very good picking the Pacers. He liked him against Cleveland. I've been more reluct but I think they have so many levers they can pull in. Carlisle so good at it. I think I like Indiana tonight as well.
What do you say.
I don't see Indiana losing another home game, and so that includes tonight. In fact, I would expect that this Tonight's game may not be as dramatic as the last one.
Wow.
I just think Indiana has found the formula. If they take care of the ball, they're going to be good. And I just I don't know what Mark Dagnell goes to, especially forty eight hours after Wednesday's game where clearly Sga, Jalen Williams and Cheded Holmgren ran out of gas at the end. I expect that the Carlisle is going to come with the exact same game plan. And I don't really see a CounterPunch for OKC unless unless Ali Caruso has the kind of game that he had in game two. But they're going to have to win the bench battle, and I don't know that I see the role players for OKASE doing that on Indiana's home floor.
You know, that's a great that's a great point, and we've talked about this for years. Role players and bench players you get a huge there's a big delta in their performance based on where they their stars are. Your stars, ye, Shaq and Kobe were good everywhere, but your role players and your bench guys can be phenomenal. I mean a second quarter for Indiana's bench was it was I don't remember a playoff finals game, I was like, the bench is winning the game.
Bennettic Matherin was their leading scorer off the bench, and he didn't play in the first quarter at all, and Carlisle went to his bench four and a half minutes into the game. That's the formula is, I'm going to play more guys than you play, and I'm going to trust them to get the job done because I don't have to rely. I mean, if you look at the way the series is gone, and Haliburton hit the game winner in Game one, but by and large, it's not like Siakam and Halliburton have carried this team to these two wins. It has been as much benedictte Matherin and Andrew Nemhart and Miles Turner and Obi Toppen all coming to the table and providing something.
Rick Buker as always, buddy, have a great weekend, enjoyed.
Tonight, Happy Father's Day. Yeah that Benedict Matherin.
You guys were all giving me crap when I said he's got a little Westbrook played in the PAC twelve most athletic guy in his roster. He's a most athletic pacer, insanely confident, a little loose, a little loose. There are moments you're like, slow it down, but I don't know, man, this kid is and plays bigger than his size. That is Westbrook. Westbrook was super athletic, incredibly confident, ridiculous energy, plays bigger than his size, and sometimes you're like, slow it down, turn the governor on just a little bit.
You're going a little hot. This kid is. I'm gonna stick with it. I don't care what you say. I think.
I think he's got a little He may not be as good as Westbrook all time. Westbrook's gonna be a Hall of Famer, but the kid is jumps off the TV screen power three necks,