The Herd with Colin CowherdPreviewing the NBA playoff games this weekend
Colin talks about the NBA playoffs and the drawbacks of having certain players as the team's number 1 option
Guest: Ryen Russillo
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All right, here we go. Our two show is really starting right now, Ryan Roussell. In a few minutes, Paul Pierce, who's apparently walking across America, is joining us. Third hour. It is great to be here today. It is absolutely amazing. Tomorrow's headlines today by Jamack in what has been crazy underdogs, winning road teams, winning NBA claps me. Fantastic. We're just talking about that as a staff today. What a gift, What a gift. Mark's madness was fantastic, But nothing like this. This has been three weeks. I mean, I don't remember a first round quite as nutty. The beginning of the second round is nuts. So I was watching so last night, you know, I watched about seven minutes and I'm like, yeah, this isn't gonna work without Steph. And I was looking at the stats. This Morning about the Warriors without Steph. Offensively, at thirty seven years old, he is still so valuable to this this franchise, the Warriors, even with Steve Kerr and Jimmy Butler and Buddy Healed and Draymond Green, the Warriors without Steph are a firework show that only has sparklers. There's no big burst at the end. Anybody notices that Jonathan Kaminga got off last night? Why because Steph didn't play right with staph You got to play off him. So Jonathan Kaminga without Staph is, hey, I can get buckets. With Steph, He's like where am I supposed to be? And some of it is just so visual. They are not a fun team to watch without Steph Curry. He is just so much fun to watch. And again, with Steph Curry, they are a symphony. Without Steph Curry, it's open mic night. Anybody got a funny joke, Bring up props. It's like fourteen Warriors played in I think the first half. Throw out your best line. Anybody got anything, hay La crosse guy, bring the stick. Whatever. So it's just two different teams and they're just not visually appealing at all without their thirty seven year old rock star. Here is Steve Kerr after.
It's not as simple as you know. Steph's out, so we just replaced him with one person. The domino effect of Steph being out led to Trace playing tonight because we need the scoring, we need the finishing. Then you saw what he did out there. Same thing with Jka.
You know, we had found a formula over the last couple of months, and obviously we're having a lot of success, but without Steph, the formula completely goes out the window and we've got to figure out the next formula.
Yeah, I mean they are again. It's a symphony with Stapf and this was Lebron in his prime. This was the difference between Lebron and Kevin Durant. Lebron's on your team, he is the system. Kevin Durant's on your team. He's a bucket. You can put him anywhere, doesn't have to bring the ball up, doesn't have to have the ball in his hands. Feed it to him in the corner. Three seconds on the clock. He'll get you a bucket that's going to knock on him. That's the difference. Steph Curry. You have to play off him I used to say this about Tom Brady. Part of the reason the Patriots were so lousy at drafting wide receivers was Tom Brady's fault. Tom had no patience. If you were not able to figure out the playbook and develop trust, not interested, go ask Julian Edelman. And once Tom got trust on you, he demanded it the next week. It's not like you got a badge or a ribbon from Tom and then we're good. And it's a same with Steph Curry. You to be able. That's why Kaminga when Steph doesn't play, Cominga's like and get a bucket. When Steph plays, it's okay where am I supposed to be? And Kaminga starts feeling, he starts thinking too much, he does not work. So I mean, it's just I think we all love Steph Curry, but last night they are just not visually fun to watch at all. Their movement. It just doesn't look good with that. My buddy Ryan Rossello the Ringing Podcast, So as you well know, Draymond has been part of my little deal right the volume and I've told you before Coachable because of iz Owen Kerr barking at him for years, he takes Jack Coward, Yeah, ain't coward. I'm very you know me, I'm rough. He's very coachable, great employee. But last night, you know, he did go a little bit into the victim thing. And I've said Bill Amber, Dennis Rodman, and Draymond chose this path.
I don't want to.
Hear you complain about it. It's the wrestling heel. You'll get famous and rich. So this morning, I'm like, listen, Draymond, bro, you're not going to get this is who you are. Where do you land on it.
I think you've been incredibly fair and supportive of Draymond throughout any of these controversies, maybe suggested as a voice of reason. But I watched the game last night. You know, I watch all the Warriors games. I like watching the Warriors. I like what he's drought this team. I think he's super important because over the years, I think they've been passive personalities and you always need one wild card and somebody who would willing to mix it up. But he can be at times delusional about this. I think he hit Nazrid on purpose last night. I think he hit Van Vliet on purpose in the other game. I even would suggest he tried to kick Tarry Easton in the nuts and then kind of somehow didn't. And I thought last night was really bad because anybody else would have been thrown out. But the acceptance by the officials of his behavior or is actually turned into a benefit for him. It's almost like your friend. It just constantly screws up, and nobody even gets mad at him anymore. So he's held to a different standard, and I think it's a standard that's much more accepting and excusing of his behavior. I thought last night was really bad because your team absolutely needs you after the thirteen and oh start, they played him fairly, even even though I would agree with you. It was a tough watch, and it felt like he wanted to get thrown out of the basketball game, and it felt selfish. I think there's a moment there where he becomes really selfish. So as much as I've appreciated him and know how important he is to the Warriors, he at times can be very odd and how he looks at how he's handled. And he was on T and T right after the Jordan Poole thing promoting a movie and it all.
Sort of worked.
And then I remember, I think he did a Taylor Rook sit down where he was more concerned about the release of the video without ever sounding like he was accountable for the act itself.
So this isn't exactly new.
But there was a moment last night where they had to get him out of the game after this tech was called on him, where I thought, does he want to be thrown out in a moment without Steph where his team desperately needs him to stay in the game because they're just out of players.
You're a Boston guy and you watch more NBA than anybody I know, except probably people that are employed in the league. So I'm gonna throw that I have defended Tatum. But I want to say, now, I know you're gonna laugh at this, but I have. I've said this, So here's where I've defended him. The star of this franchise was Danny Ainge and the Brad Stevens. Their roster constructions insane. It's like they have a cheat code in the league, like they have like eight guys that can shoot pass the ball. Tatum is a collaborative personality. Even when he didn't play in the Olympics. Ryan it was like, well, that's part of the journey. I don't think Kobe would have handle it like that. So this their whole thing is threes.
Not a closer then, because it was different than what Kobe would do. All right, okay, all right, I just want to follow along here.
Sorry.
So, so he is so collaborative that if Kobe or MJ were on this team, they'd be like, yeah, I get the three point thing. I'm getting a bucket. That's not who he is. He'll beat guys off the dribble, step back to shoot a three. I think the organization is a little bit in his head because he wants to be a team guy and he wants to and there were moments in that game I'm like, dude, they need a bucket. Stop the threes. And I think he almost is punished because he's so collaborative and he hey, it's all threes here, even though they've been eleven for eleven on dunks. So my defense is this three point analytic absolutism I think gets in his head. Am I crazy?
No?
I don't think you're crazy. I think you're hitting on two things that I think are really important. For whatever reason, our basketball evaluation is shift into does a guy just take a million shots and you know, stick his chest out, and if he does, and if they go in, even better.
But if they don't go in, but we know that he wants to take him like that's cool. That's some MJ. Kobe stuff right there.
And Tatum has not closed in the playoffs necessarily like that, despite having some huge playoff moments. But I mean, look, we've got Lebron getting criticized for years because he threw some nice passes at the end of the playoff game and made the right read. So I think whenever you're looking at Tatum, you have to understand that he really is their point guard. I mean what he did last year in the finals. And I also hate this part of it, like when you don't win the NBA Finals MVP and you're supposed to be the best player, Like Steph got dogged for years because of that because it was somehow like against it.
That he was willing to defer.
I mean, everything that happened that was good was basically because Tatum is setting up.
All this stuff.
He was a point guard on offense and a center on defense against the MAVs last year. Has going to be a championship five Eastern Conference Finals by twenty five years old. And the problem for Tatum is is that he's just not one of the four best players in the world. He's had three top six MVP finishes, but he's never gonna be Yokic. She's never gonna be Luca. You know, he's not Sga, he's not Giannis. I think Brunson is a better closer steph. It's probably more important, certainly when you look at the rest of the roster, ants a hell of a lot more fun. You know, maybe we get to one or two more guys. But you know, the anti Tatum part of this is very strange, and maybe it's a Boston thing. And look, I'll admit they looked unwatchable in both of those games with forty five threes that then forty eight hours later do basically the same exact thing. I like, there are no neutral parties with the Boston Celtics, and history plays part of that as well. But Tatum has never said anything like he can't even be offensive. I mean, he's he's so like mellow about everything.
It's it's he's really easy. He's the antithesis of like this look at me part of it. So it feels like he deals with a ton of hate.
Maybe that's just the cycle of like, hey, I get to just smash the guy who I don't like in the NBA because most of these guys are going to come up short in the playoffs. But I think the playmaking part of him, Colin that you're talking about, like that's the greatest growth. That's the part of his game that I've appreciated most this year, and yet we want him to just I guess close a lot stronger or the problem is, Look, everybody else is missing threes too, So I haven't liked his shot selection. I think he makes it really hard on himself at times. I think he's getting switches that they fight to get because they're very they're very hunt happy team with the way they approach their offense. But look, there's there's a lot of players that would wish they had his resume as being the best player on a team that's really competed late in the season.
So I'm gonna throw this theory out is that we've had a lot of upsets and a lot of underdogs winning. And this is one of the things I have said. I like MA analytics, which is analytics. But there we go, right, I mean, it's acknowledged. Is a pretty good line, right, I mean, come on, okay, so it is so I said, Now, this was a little bit of a cheap shot. I said, Jalen Bruns and his work boots, Jason Tatum's a little bit of leather loafers. It rains probably decided in their pair of shoes. But the league is decided we're gonna swallow the whistle. It's better for the ratings, it's better for the antagonism, it's better watch, and I think it is well analytics don't white quite work as well when the league is like, you know, we're going to officiate the playoffs completely different and I think it plays into the Knicks. So when you watch basketball, it's like football. If an officiating crew said we're going to allow a lot more holding, it would benefit the inferior offensive line that has to hold. Is that the officiating in these playoffs? It I don't know if Boston can win four games here the officiating. Doesn't it play into New York style?
Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. I mean, anytime you can be a little a little rougher with it. I mean OG's a beast. I fall in love with that guy through off the playoffs, you know, But like Michale and Hart, when they get Tatum or Brown, like the other two guys, Tatum and Brown are so happy they don't have Og on them. They just go with those two guys, and I'd say they win the physical part of that.
You know.
The funny thing about Brunson is, you know, you go through evaluating players and like, I wouldn't want a small guard like this being my number one option. I mean, that's kind of other than Isaiah. It's what history has told us. And yet I think small guys his footwork is so good, he's so good at getting free He's a better closer than anybody in this series. But he also gets rewarded. Although this has not been a free throw thing for bruns and whatsoever. Celtics done a great job containing him in Game two, so that has nothing really to do with it. But I think smaller players can actually get away with just murdering dudes defensively because the press are just like, hey, that's your problem. He's a lot smaller. But I don't think this is a ref thing. I do not think this is a ref thing. I think Minnesota lost Game one because it was a weird game and they're going to run through that. I think Oklahoma City did something they would never do, and they did it in the night where Yokach had a forty and twenty. Cleveland isn't healthy right now, So there's a lot of stuff when it's a six and oh start for the road teams in the second round of the playoffs where I think we're forcing us to try to find a way of why this could be different, and maybe it is different. But this next Celtics thing, I don't really think has anything to do with the officiating whatsoever, because the Celtics in the regular season were four and zero against his team, and they made more threes, and now they're twenty five percent through gages one and two in an area where they're supposed to be able to play five out how five guys you're worried about defending at the three point line. That is the entire design of the Celtics roster, and it has not done any of those things. So I don't think, especially when you're taking the many threes, it's necessarily a whistle thing.
Okay, here, we'll close it with that, this is an NFL thing and we haven't prepped on this. But I was saying earlier to defend Belichick, I said this the oh yes, yeah. So the NFL told Bill you're old, combative and you're grumpy, and Atlanta was the only team that gave him the time of day, and so Bill said, I got the message. So look at what Bill's done. Young girlfriend college campus went on ESPN and told funny stories. Bill seemed collaborative. What a good teammate. He's a good guy. After all. I don't blame Jordan Hudson for her ambition at all. It's a moment in time for her. But I have never felt like Belichick's a college guy. He's a terrible drafter. He didn't watch college football on Saturday was So my take is this thing was never gonna work. He's going to be out of here in a year. And all this turbulence was totally predictable. What do you make of it?
Okay, But the defense of Bill in that is is whatmking himself.
Yes, he's rebranding himself. It's inauthentic, but people do it all the time. He wants to appear more current, But I mean, I joked earlier that it's surprising he didn't go to Coachella. He's trying to be young collaborative guy now instead of old combative guy. I mean, all his moves are young people moves. I mean, you're a head coach. Yeah, well, I don't know.
Boston guys are pretty open minded, right, and forgiving, uh not judgmental, not envious. Look, I don't really know what the hell's going on here. I I also probably would caution just because you know, who knows if I'm seventy, you know, just bang out podcasts and be like, oh, the person finds me attractive.
That seems weird.
I'm not gonna be I'm not gonna be super critical of it. I think the part that's just weird is that, you know, Bill liked a tight ship in Foxborough. Yes, and he's done it. He's done it arguably better than anybody has ever done it. Okay, and I've given him.
Yeah.
Look, I don't know how many times we have to sit here and keep giving Belichick credit for this incredible run and doing something in the league where it's just not supposed to happen. Right, So I think we're all on the same page with all of that stuff. But he you know, it's funny. I was talking to one of his former players yesterday and we were talking about like the living part of it. It was like when you were younger and you were on your first contract, but it was pretty much understood you were living in.
The greater Foxboro or area.
And you know when I used to live in Boston back then, early two thousands. I know it's a lot nicer for that with the Craft's investment in the area, but that's not a place anybody who's like fresh off of college, NFL rookie contract.
It's like Attleborough. Awesome.
He didn't want players living up in Boston. He didn't want distractions. He wanted you to be all about football the entire time. And to see him kind of pivot into something that can lead to distractions, criticism outside noise that he's done a very good job of paying attention to and both ignoring publicly, it just kind of runs counter to how he thinks an organization should be run, Like, hey, we are all on the same page, same thing, none of the nonsense. And it feels a bit like he's invited in some of the nonsense.
Because I don't know.
Maybe he's a lonely guy and you know, they there's something about those two that we just don't understand from the outside.
Yeah, it strikes me as a bit of the late Bobby Knight, who preached discipline and then had no personal discipline. And you're like, Bobby, the messaging is getting cluttered here where he was always like, you know, he'd scream at players if they hands in the wrong spot, and it's like Bobby, you're throwing chairs at people, like it slowed down, And I do think Edelman said this. He's just like, the whole message was no distractions. I would say, Caroline at this point, if it was a movie title, it would be the distraction. The whole thing is a.
Yeah, it would be great too.
It's just as much as we all love a college ball too, like, let's get the season started, you know, And maybe none of this will matter. But I'm a little surprised that somebody that's been this media savvy despite his willingness to share, because you're right, like this past year at ESPN, I thought the same thing. I'm watching him, he's Joe Vial, He's jucking it up with the boys, you know, it's like this feels a bit like, Hey, I need the public to see this personality, this side of me that I've hid. I think for strategic reasons. And even if I would say sometimes I think it was just pettiness. But once football starts, maybe this won't matter. And here's what we know.
Here's what we know. They got off to a good start at Chapel Hill.
No one's going to care, right, and if they're two and five, everybody's gonna blame this relationship because that's what we predictably do every time we have a chance to point at the thing that's different as being the reason.
Ryan Rossillo, it's the Ringer. He has a podcast, he's been covering the league forever at Ryan A. Roussillo. I don't even know what your middle name is. Is it Adam? What is a? No?
We haven't decided yet, so we just.
Oh, all right, I didn't. I usually I know my friend's middle names. I'm very personal that way. I carried you.
Might remember like stranger's birthdays, but friend's middle names.
No, not really? All right, buddy as always right?
Thanks man?
You bet the great podcast? Yeah, that that was always my knock on. Bobby Knight. I used to talk about that. He absolutely demanded discipline and had no personal discipline. Was screaming and cussing and throwing stuff and yelled at It's like, okay, messaging is a little cloudy here.
Uh.
And I still contend Belichick's going back to the NFL if offered a job, I thought Philadelphia was the spot, but Siriani hoist the trophy, So that's done. My other one is Buffalo is if Sean McDermott gets bounced again early. At some point, you got to ask yourself, what are we doing here? Rinse and repeat? How about another one? Miami? He's got a place in Jupiter, Florida. Not a good job, owners not very good beating the Patriots twice a year.
No quarterback. Come on, it's a sinking ship in Miami. Heal and Ramsey and Nyreek Hill wants.
Out, like nah, He's not going to Buffalo? Is interesting? But does does the girlfriend want to live in the cold or does she like?
I think that could I don't see that as a maybe that could be a temporary really relationship.
You don't think whys their girlfriends have a say and where they I'm not gonna.
I'm not gonna get into that space. But I I don't think girlfriend equals wife. Yeah, if you say so, I've been married so long. I don't know.
By the way I got the NBA line tonight, there has been some movement.
Okay, okay, okay, let me guess. Don't tell me Cabs Pacers, Cabs Pacers. You already told me. I forgot. It's Calves by three and a half.
Caves minus five with there are three guys expected back.
Okay, I still think.
I like the Pacers and Oklahoma City's moving up against Denver.
What's the line up five and a half I would take. I'd take both home dogs in the points. I don't know if they win, but I would take the points.
Yeah. I just you know what, you don't have to bet every game.
Keep the powder dry for maybe some Caitlin Clark action starts next weekend.
I don't know. These NBA games just too crazy.
Man.
In La, it's the Herd.
One more Herd. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you like.
J Maak, I've been telling you about this. Yep. Two things. I've been taking these magnesium pills before bed, sleeping like a bear. They work, big, gigantic magnesium pills. I don't care what the internet slew say. That stuff works. Yeah. Second thing, you know, I don't have a hobby, and I decided yesterday what it's going to be ceramics.
How did you come upon ceramic?
That's how my wife asked, I don't know, like pottery? Yeah, I just I My son had a class in college and did it and it was he loved it. He's like, you know, working with your hands and figured stuff out and he sent stuff and I'm like, oh, I like that a lot. So I'm gonna be uh taking a class.
I'll give my wife a shout out. She's been doing pottery and what does she and she like want a contest? Now I'm trying to get her to sell some you know, we get some extra income. She's like no, so we now have it around the house, some pottery.
It's kind of cool and she enjoys it.
Yeah.
It's like, uh, you know that movie Ghost with Patrick Swayze Debbie Moore, there was the pottery.
Scene in there where they're doing stuff.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's like, you know, pottery. I don't get involved.
I'm not into selling it. I just I need something I need I need. I'm not a car fixed guy. Well, staff can't beside themselves. Now, why don't you need something to get my hands dirt?
Okay, how about this, let's play some basketball.
Dude, way past tennis again. I do enough sports.
Pick a ball.
I'm over it.
I'll come up with some stuff because I don't know that you're really built for ceramics at a lot of patience needed there.
You don't have much more friends.
Jay back with the news.
This is the headline news.
I just started with Ryan Roussillo's favorite player.
Jason Tatum.
Man.
He's under fire who were playing poorly in the first two games, specifically the fourth quarter in overtime.
Tatum eight points on two or fourteen during that stretch.
Talking to the media yesterday, Tatum vowed for improvement heading into game three.
Go I give him credit. They've been playing well, you know. But on the flip side is just taking ownership and knowing that you just you know, you got to play better, and uh, you know, I will. You know, guys work really hard in their game and in craft and prepared to be in those moments that hit open shots, and it just hasn't happened in the last two games.
But you can't lose your confidence.
Hm, I'm ready.
Yeah, I'm gonna take happy hour. This stuff is massively overblown. Jason Tatum is a star. The Celtics are gonna be fine in this years and I'm a Knicks fan. Maybe I'm pessimistic Knicks guy, but I'm just telling you, this is Jason Tatum.
Guy. You keep mentioned in the Olympics where he couldn't get off the bench.
You know who was playing ahead of him, right, Lebron and Kevin Durant, two of the top fifty forty year old Lebron in the history of basket couldn't beat him out. Lebron James. You know he's still play an elite level. And I looked up player efficiency ratings. You love stats, mister analytics. The only small forward the last three years better than him in efficiency are Lebron Kawhi when he's healthy, and Jimmy Butler, three guys who are amazing historical.
Guys, and he can't beat them out.
In Paris Veterans, how many times have we talked about it. Veterans are always gonna better than young guys.
Jimmy Butler took in the finals twice in the olymp By the way, I have some beef with you. Butler is a two. Yeah, he took the Heat to the finals twice.
He's a one.
He did take the Heat to the finals twice. Yeah.
Listen, I think this tame in the West.
He is not a one. I'm reluctant in the West. He is not a one.
So I was on a text chain with two of the producers yesterday.
I know they're cringing because listen all this, I see Nick taking shots at Tatum.
He's closer to Paul George.
You know, listen, Tatum give it his accolades. What he's won at the age of twenty seven. He's getting closer to Kobe than he is Paul George. The guy's already got a title. He's gonna be four straight First Team All NBA. I'm sorry, I got to cape up for Tatum Man. He is getting way too much heat for two bad games.
Common Well, I know we're all be watching Saturday night. I hope Leo join me at the Old nine.
Hours Saturday afternoon. But he's gonna be a boozy afternoon for you. Liquid watch in the mix.
Joke it up. Let's go to the next story.
Yeah, NBA, We're going to the Calves Indiana series. All right, listen, man, I'm stunned here. I did not think the Pacers would be up to nothing head at home. Obviously, Calves need some help. They're optimistic about Darius Garland's toe, Evan Mobley's ankle, and DeAndre Hunter's shoulder. Yeah, they need reinforcement badly. Tied Jerome, who I believe is like one for nineteen on threes in remember tides your own during the season. Yeah, yeah, playoff basketball. It's a different animal, tide. Jerome can't handle it. I kind of sort of think this series is over.
I think I think this series. I don't care that Cleveland's getting all these guys back. I think Indiana right now is playing with a ton of confidence. They're playing at their pace, They're playing cleaner now. Obviously, Mobley, I mean Cleveland's got a better roster.
Yeah, Mobley defensive player of the year.
Yeah, No, no, I mean it's but I'm just saying good luck in Indiana winning both those games. I think we're going back to Cleveland and it's gonna be three to one Pacers. I don't think you can go. I don't think you're winning two games in Indiana.
A better chance to come back from O two Calves or Celtics both at home.
Celtics. Yeah, agreed.
Final story, Colin, Oh, you're gonna love this.
Yesterday you hated bleacher Reports Top quarterback list.
Everybody did, but Warren Sharp. He's been on the show.
Good dude.
He listed the most clutch quarterbacks dating back to twenty twenty based on estimated points added per dropback, so it's very stat heavy. The most clutch quarterbacks in the league going back to twenty twenty. Joe Burrow number one, followed by Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson. Tom Brady makes that list despite not playing as many years.
Drew lock Patrick.
What Drew locked is thirteen.
Now here's the thing there is you have to qualify by having fifty attempts. So, for instance, brought Perties not on this list because he did not he doesn't have as many attempts.
He didn't have that many attempts.
Yeah, Perty did not qualify due to the numbers that Warren Sharp's using here, your boy.
Yeah, there's a lot of guys here. I don't sorry. I'll take the top five. Everything else just doesn't work for me. I know what I see.
You're more of an eye test now, Matt.
Stafford, Gino Smith? Who you taking? Buck forty left one time out, sixty eight yards ago?
I will take Matthew Stole.
Okay, there you go. Nothing against Gino? But who he did? Matt Stafford or Dak Prescott? Who are you taking? You know? Come on?
So Kyler Murray checked in at number twenty four, not clutch, Trevor Lawrence thirty, Jalen Hurts thirty seven.
Now to defend Hurts.
They win a lot of blowouts, so there aren't many close games for him.
A guy who will be.
On the list next year who just missed because he doesn't have enough qualifications. Jaden Daniels. Boy, he was amazing and clutched on last year with the with Washington they.
Won almost all it was, but he didn't have enough.
He doesn't have enough attempts because he was a rookie.
Dak Prescott, if I said to you right now, give me the three quarterbacks in the NFL. Buck forty one time out on the road, need a touchdown. Give me the three quarterbacks you'd take because they're right in they pop right into my head.
No Order, Burrow, Alan Mahone.
I would have Stafford at three A because you get the coach, you get the coach, coach count.
I mean, Lamar should be in there because he's.
Well and I love Lamar, but I would say I would do the same. I would do Mahomes, Burrow and Alan Josh can beat you so many ways, but I would have Stafford real close to it, because you get the coach, you get Andy Reid and Mahomes, you get McKay and his Now I think, I think, I think Stafford Laighton games is magical and a lot of it's just he's been doing it so long you can't fool them. He's seen every coverage and every blitz.
Yeah, yeah, no, I can't.
I much disagree with there.
I'm with you. Jmak with the news.
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the.
Line joining us in studio today. Man, there's a I gotta tell you the We've got a good we've got a good week of shows. We've had a good week of show. The Tatum stuff, is fascinating because Boston Guy gets all upset when I'm like, Tatum's not the face of the league. But now Boston Guy acknowledges, Yeah, it's hard to be face of the league when you're not a team that can beat the Knicks at home twice, and then face of the League can't even get on the floor in Paris, and then and then, and so I mean it's I'll say this, I'm not gonna plant the flag on this, but this was always my criticism. He doesn't have face of the league Aura. We kind of like our face to be a dog. We like him to be a We like him to have a Kobe be like a step on your throat.
God.
So was Corey ever a face of the league?
Well, most of his career was in Lebron's prime, So Lebron was couldn't you have Korey and Lebron the same way you had Magic and Bird? No, because Magic and Bird were connected in college and they were both it was coastal and Lakers Celtics. I just think we like certain things from our face of the league, and part of it is stomp on you when you're down. And I think there is a passive, collaborative level to Tatum's game. That doesn't feel quite what we like. It would be like being a quarterback and you were a great quarterback, but you were never you were really mediocre late. Like Elway was defined by comebacks, Marino wasn't. Elway was defined by comeback. Brady was largely defined by I mean a minute ten left and you might as well just the Colts. It's over.
I thought Elway was more he loses all the Super Bowls. That was his definition till the very end when he won the back to back.
But he was he was the greatest prospect ever. And I mean he had like at some point forty five come from behind wins, and when it wasn't a passing league, there weren't many quarterbacks that were known for that. And that's Elway was always to me more than Marino. His brand was he was great late. And by the way, Manning's brand wasn't he was great late, it was Brady's. Manning was like great talent, but we never thought, in fact, we thought he was a bit of a teeth clans early a time. Come on. So to me, there is quarterbacks all of a kind of a brand, something you think of. And I've always said this with Tatum. If you close your eyes, what do you see? I don't see anything. Most great players I have an image, a go to move, a dunk, an aura. I don't have anything. So it doesn't mean you're Elway had thirty six game winning drives before winning Super Bowl. Oh, by the way, there's a list I came out with earlier. Apparently it was it bothered j Matt.
We do about that next, Okay.
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So I was saying this earlier. There are we always talk about what's a one in the NBA, so you kind of slot players. I said a couple of years ago that if Derek White is your four or five, you're a championship team. If you're a if Derek White's a one, you're not a playoff team. If he's a two, you're a play in game team. If he's a three, you're a playoff team and can win a series. If he's a four, you're a conference final refinals team. If he's a five, you're the best team in the league. And so I'm Jason Tatum is a one. But there is three or four. There are three or four composonents of being a one, which is, are you available? If you're a great quarterback and miss six games a year, I'm not building around you. Are you emotionally available? James Harden's a flake. James Harden has a retired jersey at a strip club. I like him as a player, but you can't. Houston tried to build around him. That's well documented. By the way. That's not me taking a shot. That's like well documented. He's prideful of that. It's funny. It's part of his like like you know, Brandon image. So he's just not. Houston thought for years, Oh he's Kobe. No, he's not Kobe. Kobe in his prime was a great defensive player. Kobe was different. Kobe was absolutely committed. Harden's like I'm not in the mood, and Kobe gave you a postseason heroics far more than a bad night. So here. If I had to select a starting five and then one bench guy for the best number twos in the league, it would be Jalen Brown, Butler, Durant, Kawhi chet Holmgren, and Anthony Davis. Durant, Now you have a problem with it. Kawhi is a number one talent, but you can't play forty games, and I can't to be a number one, I have to be able to build around you. You are the foundation of the house, not a really cool kitchen. You're the foundation. Which one bothers you? Well?
The Jimmy Butler one.
He took two Miami Heat teams to the finals as the number one. That is incredible. Anthony Davis could not get out of the second round. The Pelicans can get out of the second round.
He the weaker Eastern conference before the Celtics had matured in a wobbly East out West.
He is not a one, Okay, I don't think chet Holmgren yet is a two. Could he be one in three years maybe? But if he's your two and okay.
Is going on this list? By the way, it's current. So what Butler did three years ago doesn't Man, that helps.
Your case with Kawhi. Now agree with Katie.
I've said this about Anthony Davis. He's one of the great twos. Ever, offensively he's inconsistent, but defensively he's dominant.
So my issue would be, I think there's only like you know how they have the magnificent seven stocks Apple Google all the day. Ye, I think there's a magnificent seven ones. There's only seven number ones like Paulo Benko as of now.
Like, no, he's a one?
Can he win a playoffs one?
No, we're different. I can build a franchise around.
Paulow Okay, are you getting anywhere?
Halla Burton is a one?
I would agree with that.
Halliburton, don't give me this. Can you get him anywhere? We don't know that. What we know is he checkses the ban Carl Dog, productive, reliable and physically emotionally every night you get in like him a lot. He is a one.
So wait, so we don't know what they can do in the future.
We can't predict that, but we do know what Jimmy Butler did in the past.
Yeah, but this isn't a pass list. It's today, keep it current, right now, today, now, six years ago. Durant's a one, But at this point in his career, he just wants the.
Ball, I would agree.
So what does that mean? Does that mean Devin Booker is too great too? He was the next guy should have been on the list. He it was either you know, my bench was gonna be Booker, but the staff said, you get one bench guy.
Okay.
Apparently we're like the Lakers. We only played like five people.
Okay, so let me ask you, do the Lakers currently have two ones? Or is Lebron the best support?
I would argue the Lakers have two ones, but no two, three, four, five, and six. I mean, seriously, Lebron still got a one. He's he Lebron's a one. Lucas a one. I don't like his lack of defense, but he is a one.
Donovan Mitchell has been incredible for several years. He's a conference one.
Okay, production, Yes, physically reliable to play every night. Yeah, he's got dog in him.
He does, but sometimes he shoots too much. Yeah. I think.
You're like, you're looking at results in the playoffs. I'm saying, do you check the four bocks. Donovan Mitchell is a one, Bon Carrol's a one. This is the pre you get into this. You're projecting what they'll do in the playoffs. I have bought. It's like quarterback production. I don't care about your playoff record. Justin Herbert is a starting quarterback with that.
C J.
Stroud's a starting quarterback. Yeah, I don't care if they've won playoffs game.
I think the big difference here is you're looking at what they are, yes, I'm looking at what they can be.
Well, that's just a bunch of rainbow nonsense.
It's rooted in fact.
Yours is all based on staff. So you love Harden and I never bought into world. He did take the Rockets places.
Now at this stage the.
Club, what places did he take? But because he can get him.
To listen, that's got to be a minimum.
Like Joel Embiid, I pushed back hard on that he's never been to a conference finals.
To me, by the way, Harden came off the bench in his only finals.
Yes with okay see, but he took the Rockets far pushed.
The under achieved based on predictions and odds every year. Couldn't work with his buddy Westbrook couldn't work with the great Chris Moore.
Not a lot of people have worked with Russell Westbrook. He's walking now? Is the sixth man?
Hey, no throwing Shade Russ on this show anymore?
You Maxie? How come he's nothing whenmember he started the season?
Is one of I wrestled with Tyreek Maxy. I think I'll I'm not sure I wrestled with it, but I will argue. And another guy is Evan Molbley. I think he's another guy that it could be a one right now? He's a two. Again, I only had six spots.
Who's the two to Anthony Edwards in Minnesota? Did they not have one?
Julius Randall.
Good game last night, But I don't think he's a too is he? If he's a three year set? Well, the Minnesota's lost their two.
That's right. So Julius Randall's a one, you may not be a playoff team. He's a two, Minnesota, you can win a playoff series. He is a three, then you're a team that can get to the final. Yeah.
I like this one two three strategy. But it seems like you know you're my guy, but you get too many ones. Bro I mean, I like Ben Caroka can be a one. Oh you're not there yet.
The idea you think there's only six or seven ones in the league.
He's like, there's only six or seven untouchable.
I think there's like twenty five ones.
Excuse me, twenty five ones.
And not every guy that's a one can win you a title. You get one team a year.
But it's possible that if you have a one and aren't going anywhere. He ain't a one, he's a two.
I don't care if the Knicks. I don't care if the Pacers don't win another game. Halliburton checks all the boxes, dog productive, reliable, physically and emotionally every game, ready to play.
Ask you some guys kate cutting him.
He's a one. John Moran, he's a two. That's it. That's all you got.
Well, I was gonna say Dame, but he's hurting.
Dame is no longer a one. He's not not physically reliable.
Rockets don't have a one, and they were the.
The Rockets don't have a one. Shoon's a two. Fred van Vleetz probably should be a three. Four. Aman Thompson is a really good two potential.
Yeah, huh.
Interesting, So you've probably got closer to ten to fifteen one.
No, I got probably twenty one. I think there's a bunch of great players. Huh. Trey Young, he's a two, maybe a three. Sometimes he doesn't play any defense, and he's hard to get along with.
I mean Wemby would be a one.
Obviously, Wemby's a one.
Cooper Flag hasn't played an NBA game.
Well, let's let let's let him dribble in the league ones. Can I get an exhibition effort out of him? No, I got no ball. He's not a one. I don't know what he is, but he's not a white. I did fun to watch. Isn't one of my boxes?
Wagged out?
He's fun, I mean he's creative. Hour three
