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Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

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Hour two.

Hour two.

Indiana Pacers have taken control of the series. Indiana's played fourteen playoff kids. They're oz to three in game threes when they lead to oh. When they've taken control of the series, winning on the road at Milwaukee, at Cleveland, at New York, they go into the other team's place, steal both games. They come home foot on the gas. Let's off a little, and they've lost one game in each series. Game three, that's it. Otherwise they were eleven and zero in the urgency games games one and two, four, five, six. They're eleven and zer and Halliburton's statline last night maybe the most impressive thing I've ever seen in my life. Thirty two, fifteen, ten and no turnovers. That is beyond hyper efficiency. That is insane. That'd be like an NFL quit. That's what Jayden Daniels did last year, but he would go like thirty of thirty four with no turnovers. What it's just, it's against the defensive coach and a defensive team. And the other thing is and you saw this with Magic Johnson. You see this with a truly great point guards. You see this with Chris Paul. Remember when Chris Paul was in LA, like Blake Griffin was like is he a top three or four player in the league? And DeAndre Jordan was nothing but buckets? And then Chris Paul leaves those two players and they're not the same players. You see all the holes in their game. I like Pascal Siakam. He looks all NBA first team playing with Aliburton thirty two, fifteen ten and no turnovers.

Indiana Pacers have taken control of the series. Indiana's played fourteen playoff kids. They're oz to three in game threes when they lead to oh. When they've taken control of the series, winning on the road at Milwaukee, at Cleveland, at New York, they go into the other team's place, steal both games. They come home foot on the gas. Let's off a little, and they've lost one game in each series. Game three, that's it. Otherwise they were eleven and zero in the urgency games games one and two, four, five, six. They're eleven and zer and Halliburton's statline last night maybe the most impressive thing I've ever seen in my life. Thirty two, fifteen, ten and no turnovers. That is beyond hyper efficiency. That is insane. That'd be like an NFL quit. That's what Jayden Daniels did last year, but he would go like thirty of thirty four with no turnovers. What it's just, it's against the defensive coach and a defensive team. And the other thing is and you saw this with Magic Johnson. You see this with a truly great point guards. You see this with Chris Paul. Remember when Chris Paul was in LA, like Blake Griffin was like is he a top three or four player in the league? And DeAndre Jordan was nothing but buckets? And then Chris Paul leaves those two players and they're not the same players. You see all the holes in their game. I like Pascal Siakam. He looks all NBA first team playing with Aliburton thirty two, fifteen ten and no turnovers.

Here's Ali after.

Here's Ali after.

I feel like we were making up stats at at some point to make me look better. I was just trying to be aggressive man, just trying to play my best, you know. I feel like I let the team down in Game three, felt like I could have been so much better.

I feel like we were making up stats at at some point to make me look better. I was just trying to be aggressive man, just trying to play my best, you know. I feel like I let the team down in Game three, felt like I could have been so much better.

So I feel like I responded the right way today.

So I feel like I responded the right way today.

The only time I haven't liked Indiana in this series was when they had Halliburton off the floor end of the third quarter in Game three and the start of the fourth and they lost their rhythm. And this is a rhythm team, and it's a rhythm team because of Halliburton. And then he came back in he got him back on track, but it just it felt like they lost their mojo. So like every time he goes to the bench, if Brunson goes to the bench, Kat can score more. The Knicks don't necessarily go into a cave. Halliburton's off the floor. It's like it's like white knuckle time. You're like, okay, all right, let's make sure this thing works. He is all time specish. I love watching him play, and I think it's a great personality with that. Greg Olsen joining us live fourteen years in the NFL, Fox Sports Analyst, great great broadcaster. By the way, tight End University is back it's fifth year in Nashville in June twenty three to the twenty second.

The only time I haven't liked Indiana in this series was when they had Halliburton off the floor end of the third quarter in Game three and the start of the fourth and they lost their rhythm. And this is a rhythm team, and it's a rhythm team because of Halliburton. And then he came back in he got him back on track, but it just it felt like they lost their mojo. So like every time he goes to the bench, if Brunson goes to the bench, Kat can score more. The Knicks don't necessarily go into a cave. Halliburton's off the floor. It's like it's like white knuckle time. You're like, okay, all right, let's make sure this thing works. He is all time specish. I love watching him play, and I think it's a great personality with that. Greg Olsen joining us live fourteen years in the NFL, Fox Sports Analyst, great great broadcaster. By the way, tight End University is back it's fifth year in Nashville in June twenty three to the twenty second.

I want to ask about that because part of what you.

I want to ask about that because part of what you.

Do, which I think is the most underdiscussed part of your sport, is film study. And Caleb Williams was recently quoted talking about the Bears, a team you played for, and loved playing for. He's like, yeah, I'd watched film alone, and I don't you know, I'm not in those rooms. When you hear that he watched film alone, what was your interpretation of that.

Do, which I think is the most underdiscussed part of your sport, is film study. And Caleb Williams was recently quoted talking about the Bears, a team you played for, and loved playing for. He's like, yeah, I'd watched film alone, and I don't you know, I'm not in those rooms. When you hear that he watched film alone, what was your interpretation of that.

How's that land for you?

How's that land for you?

Yeah, it lands as you would expect. It's just it's hard for me to believe that that was the case. And I'm not saying he's not being genuine. I've been in three different organizations, multiple different head coaches, multiple quarterbacks. I've never heard of a guy not having the opportunity to watch film with his position coach, let alone the quarterback, not you know, between the quarterback coach, the offensive coordinator someone there. It's hard for me to believe that the organization would let their young rookie watch film by himself. But with that being said, yeah, it is though an element of the sport that there is a little bit of a learning curve. I don't think most young guys coming out of college unless you just happen to be playing for, you know, the right coach, the right position, coach, coordinator, whoever at the college level, to teach you the art of film study. I think we just have a joke like we're not in here watching movies. Right, There's a lot of guys that put the game on play one and they just go play one, play two, play three, and they just go through the sequence of a game. You know, yes, you're watching film, are you really getting the tendencies and really know what you're looking at to study? My experience is most guys have to learn that. Most guys have to learn that over the career. How I watched film in my fourteenth year was wildly different than how I watched it my first and second year. And I think it's up to the organization.

Yeah, it lands as you would expect. It's just it's hard for me to believe that that was the case. And I'm not saying he's not being genuine. I've been in three different organizations, multiple different head coaches, multiple quarterbacks. I've never heard of a guy not having the opportunity to watch film with his position coach, let alone the quarterback, not you know, between the quarterback coach, the offensive coordinator someone there. It's hard for me to believe that the organization would let their young rookie watch film by himself. But with that being said, yeah, it is though an element of the sport that there is a little bit of a learning curve. I don't think most young guys coming out of college unless you just happen to be playing for, you know, the right coach, the right position, coach, coordinator, whoever at the college level, to teach you the art of film study. I think we just have a joke like we're not in here watching movies. Right, There's a lot of guys that put the game on play one and they just go play one, play two, play three, and they just go through the sequence of a game. You know, yes, you're watching film, are you really getting the tendencies and really know what you're looking at to study? My experience is most guys have to learn that. Most guys have to learn that over the career. How I watched film in my fourteenth year was wildly different than how I watched it my first and second year. And I think it's up to the organization.

It's up to the.

It's up to the.

Coach, especially at the quarterback position, where there is no greater responsibility than understanding not only everything of what your team's doing, but of course what the opposing team is doing defensively. So I can't imagine Ben Johnson's gonna let that go on at all. So I think for Caleb Williams and his development, the right guy now is in control in Chicago, both over the team and then obviously offensively with what Ben Johnson can do. But yeah, when I read that report, I kind of did a ooh, like true not true, scales of truth whatever. There's always probably two sides to every story, but just the fact that that was even suggested is not a great is not a great reflection of the organization for sure.

Coach, especially at the quarterback position, where there is no greater responsibility than understanding not only everything of what your team's doing, but of course what the opposing team is doing defensively. So I can't imagine Ben Johnson's gonna let that go on at all. So I think for Caleb Williams and his development, the right guy now is in control in Chicago, both over the team and then obviously offensively with what Ben Johnson can do. But yeah, when I read that report, I kind of did a ooh, like true not true, scales of truth whatever. There's always probably two sides to every story, but just the fact that that was even suggested is not a great is not a great reflection of the organization for sure.

But by the way, did you and Cam, for instance, film study.

But by the way, did you and Cam, for instance, film study.

Would you sit.

Would you sit.

Down with Cam and go, Dude, this guy, this guy.

Down with Cam and go, Dude, this guy, this guy.

In the flaps we like? Is that a real thing?

In the flaps we like? Is that a real thing?

Oh? Absolutely? So we had a great routine. So it was actually kind of fun.

Oh? Absolutely? So we had a great routine. So it was actually kind of fun.

So most of the meetings from when we got there in the morning, we're all controlled by the coaches. It was small group meetings, offensive install then we'd have practice, then we'd have post practice review where we'd watch the practice film. So there was opportunities to you know, hey, coach, take a second, Cam, here's why I ran this flat.

So most of the meetings from when we got there in the morning, we're all controlled by the coaches. It was small group meetings, offensive install then we'd have practice, then we'd have post practice review where we'd watch the practice film. So there was opportunities to you know, hey, coach, take a second, Cam, here's why I ran this flat.

Here's why.

Here's why.

And you're watching practice film or you're watching and the opportunity to go, But there's thirty five guys in the room, it's not really the opportunity for the two of you to have your own conversation. But then at the end of the day when everything officially with the coaches ended, the tight end and the quarterback room in Carolina.

And you're watching practice film or you're watching and the opportunity to go, But there's thirty five guys in the room, it's not really the opportunity for the two of you to have your own conversation. But then at the end of the day when everything officially with the coaches ended, the tight end and the quarterback room in Carolina.

We're right next to each other.

We're right next to each other.

We literally shared a wall, so he'd be in his room with some of the quarterbacks and I'd be doing sometimes I liked being by myself at the end of the day, just for my own prep and notes and whatnot, and I knew he was right next door, so I would pop over and be like, hey, I need you to come take a look at this, and say, hey, look at the way this safety's hips. Are you okay if I take this a couple of yards deeper? Am I going to throw off your timing? And most of the time Cam was just like, get open, I'm good. But then sometimes he'd be like, I can't hold it that long, or it messes up with my timing of my footwork, or I don't like the way your body language looks on there because you kind of fooled me. I wasn't sure when you were going to come out of your break. I need less at the top. So like that, dialogue in meetings on the field was NonStop. And when you can play with one guy for as long as we did over time, I knew his answer before I even had to ask him, and vice versa, because we had talked through so many scenarios over so many days, you know, for those nine years together.

We literally shared a wall, so he'd be in his room with some of the quarterbacks and I'd be doing sometimes I liked being by myself at the end of the day, just for my own prep and notes and whatnot, and I knew he was right next door, so I would pop over and be like, hey, I need you to come take a look at this, and say, hey, look at the way this safety's hips. Are you okay if I take this a couple of yards deeper? Am I going to throw off your timing? And most of the time Cam was just like, get open, I'm good. But then sometimes he'd be like, I can't hold it that long, or it messes up with my timing of my footwork, or I don't like the way your body language looks on there because you kind of fooled me. I wasn't sure when you were going to come out of your break. I need less at the top. So like that, dialogue in meetings on the field was NonStop. And when you can play with one guy for as long as we did over time, I knew his answer before I even had to ask him, and vice versa, because we had talked through so many scenarios over so many days, you know, for those nine years together.

So Cam was a mover. Caleb's a mover. Cam Ward is a mover like. I like Cam a lot, and I think Tennessee could be a playoff team. Tell the audience when you do have Caleb Williams and he can add lib Now, I think the Bears online is better.

So Cam was a mover. Caleb's a mover. Cam Ward is a mover like. I like Cam a lot, and I think Tennessee could be a playoff team. Tell the audience when you do have Caleb Williams and he can add lib Now, I think the Bears online is better.

He won't have to do it as much.

He won't have to do it as much.

But some of these guys, like Cam, cam Warden Caleb, they're just naturally gifted. It's like if you have a great voice in the shower, like that's just the reality of their game. When you have a mobile quarterback, does it make it harder for tight ends and does it make it harder in film studies so much as that.

But some of these guys, like Cam, cam Warden Caleb, they're just naturally gifted. It's like if you have a great voice in the shower, like that's just the reality of their game. When you have a mobile quarterback, does it make it harder for tight ends and does it make it harder in film studies so much as that.

Libya, it's a great question. So I think what we're seeing right now in the NFL is you can't play.

Libya, it's a great question. So I think what we're seeing right now in the NFL is you can't play.

I should say with uncertainty.

I should say with uncertainty.

The vast majority of guys cannot play NFL quarterback if you don't have some level of improv right, some level of playing off script, off platform. All the words, the buzzwords that get thrown around, but the ability to buy time, escape pocket pressure, and still stay active as a quarterback and not always just rely on being a runner, stay active as a passer. I mean, now you also can't only playoff script.

The vast majority of guys cannot play NFL quarterback if you don't have some level of improv right, some level of playing off script, off platform. All the words, the buzzwords that get thrown around, but the ability to buy time, escape pocket pressure, and still stay active as a quarterback and not always just rely on being a runner, stay active as a passer. I mean, now you also can't only playoff script.

You can't only play improv quarterback. At the NFL. There's no timing, there's no rhythm.

You can't only play improv quarterback. At the NFL. There's no timing, there's no rhythm.

The tackles don't know your depth of your drop, The guards don't know the depth of the pocket. Am I blocking for you to be at five and a half yards? Or are you're going to be outside the hash marks running with your life? If I'm a quarterback, if I'm a wide receiver or a tight end, I need to know at the top of my break when I get my head around, am I looking to find you behind the center at seven yards? Or is there a chance that you've already broken contained and you're outside the pocket and now I need to get into scramble drilled. So there is a balance to it all. You can't just stand in one spot and be a statue in today's NFL. And you also can't just play recess football running around. It's not sustainable. So I think that the blend of don't take what's special out of these guys, don't take it out of their game. If you have the ability to move and improvise, encourage them to do it, but just give them boundaries, give them parameters of saying, Okay, I need you to hit your fifth step of your drop and it's a progression pass, or it's a half field read or whatever the play calls for. After you've exhausted all of that. If the opportunity there is to extend and create plays outside the rhythm of the game, we're never going to take you away. But it can't be hit your back foot and run around because we can't support you doing that every single play from a protection and a route concept. So there is a little give and take, and I think that's something that Ben Johnson has proven. He's coached multiple different types of quarterbacks. He had a guy in golf who really was stationary in rhythm, in timing, get the ball out of his hand. He will have a little bit of a different flavor for a guy like Caleb where he does get that rhythm progression passer in the offense because you need it, but then also encourage him to use his athleticism because it is very challenging for defenses to play off script and defend that long.

The tackles don't know your depth of your drop, The guards don't know the depth of the pocket. Am I blocking for you to be at five and a half yards? Or are you're going to be outside the hash marks running with your life? If I'm a quarterback, if I'm a wide receiver or a tight end, I need to know at the top of my break when I get my head around, am I looking to find you behind the center at seven yards? Or is there a chance that you've already broken contained and you're outside the pocket and now I need to get into scramble drilled. So there is a balance to it all. You can't just stand in one spot and be a statue in today's NFL. And you also can't just play recess football running around. It's not sustainable. So I think that the blend of don't take what's special out of these guys, don't take it out of their game. If you have the ability to move and improvise, encourage them to do it, but just give them boundaries, give them parameters of saying, Okay, I need you to hit your fifth step of your drop and it's a progression pass, or it's a half field read or whatever the play calls for. After you've exhausted all of that. If the opportunity there is to extend and create plays outside the rhythm of the game, we're never going to take you away. But it can't be hit your back foot and run around because we can't support you doing that every single play from a protection and a route concept. So there is a little give and take, and I think that's something that Ben Johnson has proven. He's coached multiple different types of quarterbacks. He had a guy in golf who really was stationary in rhythm, in timing, get the ball out of his hand. He will have a little bit of a different flavor for a guy like Caleb where he does get that rhythm progression passer in the offense because you need it, but then also encourage him to use his athleticism because it is very challenging for defenses to play off script and defend that long.

Before I get to the tight end, you the tush push. You know, as a guy that was a willing blocker, My guess was you like it. Do you like the tush push?

Before I get to the tight end, you the tush push. You know, as a guy that was a willing blocker, My guess was you like it. Do you like the tush push?

I do.

I do.

I think it would be an extremely unfair and wrong to Philadelphia, who has really some teams have done it here and there, no one has even come remotely close to doing it as efficiently as often, and use it as such a fabric of their offensive philosophy, from how they manage third downs knowing they got a yard and a half in their back pocket, how they call first and second down plays knowing they have a fourth down in their back pocket, goal to go situations like it is a not just a play, it is really a centerpiece of the entire fabric philosophy that Sirianni has built with that offense. In Jalen hurt So, I think to remove that from a team who has found a play that they're uniquely good at, just because the rest of the league is tired of trying to find ways to defend it, I don't agree with. My gut tells me they are going to eventually ban it. I think it came so close this year at the owners meeting. Typically those things don't come back. They typically continue to move forward and getting the other side to flip. I hope I'm wrong, because I think Philly has earned the right to use that in their offense.

I think it would be an extremely unfair and wrong to Philadelphia, who has really some teams have done it here and there, no one has even come remotely close to doing it as efficiently as often, and use it as such a fabric of their offensive philosophy, from how they manage third downs knowing they got a yard and a half in their back pocket, how they call first and second down plays knowing they have a fourth down in their back pocket, goal to go situations like it is a not just a play, it is really a centerpiece of the entire fabric philosophy that Sirianni has built with that offense. In Jalen hurt So, I think to remove that from a team who has found a play that they're uniquely good at, just because the rest of the league is tired of trying to find ways to defend it, I don't agree with. My gut tells me they are going to eventually ban it. I think it came so close this year at the owners meeting. Typically those things don't come back. They typically continue to move forward and getting the other side to flip. I hope I'm wrong, because I think Philly has earned the right to use that in their offense.

I don't think the lineman loved doing it.

I don't think the lineman loved doing it.

I don't think they love being at the bottom of the pile on you know, seven times a game, five times a game.

I don't think they love being at the bottom of the pile on you know, seven times a game, five times a game.

But when you're winning Super Bowls and you.

But when you're winning Super Bowls and you.

Tell me I got to mush a guy out of there and get my back right, I'll do that.

Tell me I got to mush a guy out of there and get my back right, I'll do that.

I'll do that to win the Super Bowl.

I'll do that to win the Super Bowl.

So I'll be curious to see how it plays out.

So I'll be curious to see how it plays out.

Finally, I think, you know, people were complaining a couple of years ago about you know, running backs don't make any money.

Finally, I think, you know, people were complaining a couple of years ago about you know, running backs don't make any money.

It's unfair.

It's unfair.

And my take has been, well, tight ends have been under paid my entire life. They have to block the best athlete on defense, and they have to catch, they have to do most of the dirty work, and then they're one of the last positions. I guess this has changed that you can really take a shot at as a defensive player. So when you have your Nashville tight end University and you have all these young guys in what is something you preach to young tight ends?

And my take has been, well, tight ends have been under paid my entire life. They have to block the best athlete on defense, and they have to catch, they have to do most of the dirty work, and then they're one of the last positions. I guess this has changed that you can really take a shot at as a defensive player. So when you have your Nashville tight end University and you have all these young guys in what is something you preach to young tight ends?

A high school tight end? It's not all.

A high school tight end? It's not all.

Catching, Like, is there something that is do you deliver a message a harsh message to all these young tight ends that I wouldn't think about.

Catching, Like, is there something that is do you deliver a message a harsh message to all these young tight ends that I wouldn't think about.

Yeah, and it's actually a very simple message. And you know, we get into route running and we got Kelsey given, you know, really high level coverage recognition and how to use leverage and breaking and.

Yeah, and it's actually a very simple message. And you know, we get into route running and we got Kelsey given, you know, really high level coverage recognition and how to use leverage and breaking and.

Finding space and a lot of this stuff.

Finding space and a lot of this stuff.

I kind of look and I laugh, and I'm like, Kelsey, like, not everyone can do what you're talking about right now.

I kind of look and I laugh, and I'm like, Kelsey, like, not everyone can do what you're talking about right now.

Because it's super advanced.

Because it's super advanced.

And him and Mahomes and then you got Kittle talking run game and footwork and hand placement and fight and you know, these guys are just so unique. But obviously they have a lot of experience and a lot of understanding of the position. But the message that we try to deliver, at least the one I try to deliver to all of our guys to your point, is the best opportunity to have success at tight end, especially at a higher level, is to be able to be trusted to be on the field on every snap. And that's going to be your best case for production, catches, yards, opportunities, how much you get paid, the impact on the offense, all of it. If you could be the best pass catching tight end in football, or the best run blocking tight end in football. But if I can only use that, I can only use you in package of the offense. At times where those skill sets are warranted. You still are going to play in the NFL. You are still going to be able to find a roster spot because those skills have value. But if you want to be a legit guy, you want to catch eighty balls, you want to have a thousand yards. The only reason I ever caught a thousand yards Colin was because I knew. I went into every game and there was like four to six real routes downfield twenty plus yards that were designed for me. But of that four to six, I needed the right protection, the right play call, did the play ever get called in the first place, against the right coverage?

And him and Mahomes and then you got Kittle talking run game and footwork and hand placement and fight and you know, these guys are just so unique. But obviously they have a lot of experience and a lot of understanding of the position. But the message that we try to deliver, at least the one I try to deliver to all of our guys to your point, is the best opportunity to have success at tight end, especially at a higher level, is to be able to be trusted to be on the field on every snap. And that's going to be your best case for production, catches, yards, opportunities, how much you get paid, the impact on the offense, all of it. If you could be the best pass catching tight end in football, or the best run blocking tight end in football. But if I can only use that, I can only use you in package of the offense. At times where those skill sets are warranted. You still are going to play in the NFL. You are still going to be able to find a roster spot because those skills have value. But if you want to be a legit guy, you want to catch eighty balls, you want to have a thousand yards. The only reason I ever caught a thousand yards Colin was because I knew. I went into every game and there was like four to six real routes downfield twenty plus yards that were designed for me. But of that four to six, I needed the right protection, the right play call, did the play ever get called in the first place, against the right coverage?

And then did I catch it? Was the throw.

And then did I catch it? Was the throw.

There's so many factors of those four to six. If I got two or three of those, that was a great day. But now you got three catches for fifty five yards. But now I caught a flat route, I caught a first and second down checkdown because I'm on the field. I caught a short yardage goal, a short yardage pass, a goal line pass, and next thing you know I'd finished with seven for ninety and it wasn't the flashy play. So if I'm only on the field for the flashy plays, I never catch the easy ones. And if I'm only good enough to be on the field in goal line and short yardage because I'm a blocker, I don't catch a third and eight dig across the middle for twenty five. So being on the field and providing value to your team no matter that down and distance, you're not looking to the sideline. What personnel package are they calling? If I'm on the huddle every single play, even if I'm not the best at anything, my ability to raise my value and raise my earnings, my production, all of it go up.

There's so many factors of those four to six. If I got two or three of those, that was a great day. But now you got three catches for fifty five yards. But now I caught a flat route, I caught a first and second down checkdown because I'm on the field. I caught a short yardage goal, a short yardage pass, a goal line pass, and next thing you know I'd finished with seven for ninety and it wasn't the flashy play. So if I'm only on the field for the flashy plays, I never catch the easy ones. And if I'm only good enough to be on the field in goal line and short yardage because I'm a blocker, I don't catch a third and eight dig across the middle for twenty five. So being on the field and providing value to your team no matter that down and distance, you're not looking to the sideline. What personnel package are they calling? If I'm on the huddle every single play, even if I'm not the best at anything, my ability to raise my value and raise my earnings, my production, all of it go up.

So that's our.

So that's our.

Message to them, be good enough at everything, and it's a much easier road.

Message to them, be good enough at everything, and it's a much easier road.

Great stuff, great broadcaster, Fox Sports. It's tight end you.

Great stuff, great broadcaster, Fox Sports. It's tight end you.

It's in Nashville, the twenty third to the twenty six, a great American city in Tennessee.

It's in Nashville, the twenty third to the twenty six, a great American city in Tennessee.

Good seeing you, my man.

Good seeing you, my man.

Good seeing you man. Have a great summer.

Good seeing you man. Have a great summer.

Yeah, see jmack.

Yeah, see jmack.

If you did more than just jack up threes, if you could defend a little, if you could occasionally screen, like Greg Olsen talked about you could be on the floor in key spots, not just jacking up threes when your team's down do.

If you did more than just jack up threes, if you could defend a little, if you could occasionally screen, like Greg Olsen talked about you could be on the floor in key spots, not just jacking up threes when your team's down do.

I know you like to take jabs at my hoops game, but I'll just say I've signed up for the most competitive hoops league I've ever joined. There's a large money to the winner in this league this summer. My wife doesn't even know about it. I'm just telling you right now.

I know you like to take jabs at my hoops game, but I'll just say I've signed up for the most competitive hoops league I've ever joined. There's a large money to the winner in this league this summer. My wife doesn't even know about it. I'm just telling you right now.

Yeah, because money is a real issue for you. You're not compensated.

Yeah, because money is a real issue for you. You're not compensated.

Well, listen, you know everybody can use a little raise every now and then.

Well, listen, you know everybody can use a little raise every now and then.

Mister Cowery, you're ridiculous, all right. I want to thank Greg Olsen for stopping by. It's the Herd.

Mister Cowery, you're ridiculous, all right. I want to thank Greg Olsen for stopping by. It's the Herd.

One more Herd. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you like.

One more Herd. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you like.

Tyrese Halibert, I know it's hard to say superstar in this league if you're not jumping over people or you're not thirty two a game, but he feels like an emerging superstar to me.

Tyrese Halibert, I know it's hard to say superstar in this league if you're not jumping over people or you're not thirty two a game, but he feels like an emerging superstar to me.

Here's j Mack with the news.

Here's j Mack with the news.

No, no turn on the news.

No, no turn on the news.

This is the Herd Line News.

This is the Herd Line News.

So you know I picked the Buffalo Bills, Colin to get to the Super Bowl and win it. Well, some bad news already, New edge rusher Joey Bosa is sidelined to start OTAs and worse yet, James Cook is a no show. He's been asking for a new contract entering the final year of his rookie deal. This isn't great, Okay. Bosa already hurt Chargers fans. That's familiar sounds to their ears, as they've seen him always injured.

So you know I picked the Buffalo Bills, Colin to get to the Super Bowl and win it. Well, some bad news already, New edge rusher Joey Bosa is sidelined to start OTAs and worse yet, James Cook is a no show. He's been asking for a new contract entering the final year of his rookie deal. This isn't great, Okay. Bosa already hurt Chargers fans. That's familiar sounds to their ears, as they've seen him always injured.

He has a calf injury. Colin.

He has a calf injury. Colin.

They said Bosa is expected to miss offseason work until the summer.

They said Bosa is expected to miss offseason work until the summer.

What is that?

What is that?

July and Cook was a stud second most t these in the league ty with Derrick Henry. Not a great start to odas for the bubble of BIS.

July and Cook was a stud second most t these in the league ty with Derrick Henry. Not a great start to odas for the bubble of BIS.

I have no fears.

I have no fears.

Running back needs the least practice of any position in football. Offensive line usually needs the most practice along with quarterback, and pass rusher is another position. If you're in shape, you'll be able to rush the passer. It's not like Joey Bosa is going to forget how to rush the passer. I actually think it's one of the better pickups of the year. Mosa, Yeah, I mean he can be banged up. Listen, the Chargers didn't want to pay Khalil Mack and Joey Bosa. They just they couldn't pay both because of what they're paying Herbert and they're going to have to pay their left tackle. So there were just there were limitations on you know, they had to move off at one point Mike Williams and Keenan Allen And so they're gonna pay Khalil Mack, who's been more available. Joey Bosa is going to go in there and have double digit sacks for the Bills. Oh what Remember they also lead in fourteen to fifteen of their games. They'll lead in the fourth quarter, meaning the opponent's passing, so he's going to get This is not a team that's gonna be Let's be honest, this is not a team it's.

Running back needs the least practice of any position in football. Offensive line usually needs the most practice along with quarterback, and pass rusher is another position. If you're in shape, you'll be able to rush the passer. It's not like Joey Bosa is going to forget how to rush the passer. I actually think it's one of the better pickups of the year. Mosa, Yeah, I mean he can be banged up. Listen, the Chargers didn't want to pay Khalil Mack and Joey Bosa. They just they couldn't pay both because of what they're paying Herbert and they're going to have to pay their left tackle. So there were just there were limitations on you know, they had to move off at one point Mike Williams and Keenan Allen And so they're gonna pay Khalil Mack, who's been more available. Joey Bosa is going to go in there and have double digit sacks for the Bills. Oh what Remember they also lead in fourteen to fifteen of their games. They'll lead in the fourth quarter, meaning the opponent's passing, so he's going to get This is not a team that's gonna be Let's be honest, this is not a team it's.

Gonna be trailing late.

Gonna be trailing late.

They're favored in every single game, including the Eagles game.

They're favored in every single game, including the Eagles game.

What does that mean?

What does that mean?

I learned this year's ago from Bill Pollian when they drafted Peyton Manning. His takeaway was, we're gonna be leading most of our games. Let's go draft pass rushers. And that's, by the way, what Bill Belichick. We're gonna be leading with Brady. They now they always didn't have sack leaders, but they always led or were near the top and hurried and rushes. So once you get the great quarterback. By the way, what are the Chiefs pay on defense? They let a lot of people go. They don't let Chris Jones go because they're going to lead games. So Joey Bosa is a must for this team. He's gonna end up with eleven or twelve sacks.

I learned this year's ago from Bill Pollian when they drafted Peyton Manning. His takeaway was, we're gonna be leading most of our games. Let's go draft pass rushers. And that's, by the way, what Bill Belichick. We're gonna be leading with Brady. They now they always didn't have sack leaders, but they always led or were near the top and hurried and rushes. So once you get the great quarterback. By the way, what are the Chiefs pay on defense? They let a lot of people go. They don't let Chris Jones go because they're going to lead games. So Joey Bosa is a must for this team. He's gonna end up with eleven or twelve sacks.

Know what we're gonna need this summer.

Know what we're gonna need this summer.

We need Ryan and Jay have a board next to you with our bets, because that is insane. You think both is I have double digit tech. I don't even think he plays double digit games this season. Got This guy is always a walking injury. Honestly, listen, he'll be not I would just say put him in bubble wrap and unleash him in January, just save him for the playoffs. Honestly, Like that's crazy. I do want to just repeat. The Bills are winning the Super Bow, all right. Next story, Colin is my mix man.

We need Ryan and Jay have a board next to you with our bets, because that is insane. You think both is I have double digit tech. I don't even think he plays double digit games this season. Got This guy is always a walking injury. Honestly, listen, he'll be not I would just say put him in bubble wrap and unleash him in January, just save him for the playoffs. Honestly, Like that's crazy. I do want to just repeat. The Bills are winning the Super Bow, all right. Next story, Colin is my mix man.

This is tough. It's just a difficult. It's a difficult day for men. Brunson and Company could not get it done. Josh Hart was freaking terrible. I don't know, I don't know what to do.

This is tough. It's just a difficult. It's a difficult day for men. Brunson and Company could not get it done. Josh Hart was freaking terrible. I don't know, I don't know what to do.

Let's just hear what Cat has to say after the Pacers took.

Let's just hear what Cat has to say after the Pacers took.

A three to one lead in the series.

A three to one lead in the series.

We've been a team that has kind of found a way to do the impossible. It always seemed impossible. You know, we just keep fighting. So it's gonna be a testament to our whole playoff runt. You know, now we have to be in one of the biggest fights of our lives.

We've been a team that has kind of found a way to do the impossible. It always seemed impossible. You know, we just keep fighting. So it's gonna be a testament to our whole playoff runt. You know, now we have to be in one of the biggest fights of our lives.

Well it's been listen, it's been fun.

Well it's been listen, it's been fun.

But the Pacers are eleven to zero in playoff games that aren't Game three. And like, by the way they took a lead last night, I felt like last night they controlled the game. They had a lead early, they had a laid in the fourth quarter, I felt.

But the Pacers are eleven to zero in playoff games that aren't Game three. And like, by the way they took a lead last night, I felt like last night they controlled the game. They had a lead early, they had a laid in the fourth quarter, I felt.

Like and a lot of it was the Knicks they had and they had turnovers.

Like and a lot of it was the Knicks they had and they had turnovers.

I mean, if you go look at the turnovers, they almost had twice as many turnovers as Indiana, So a lot of.

I mean, if you go look at the turnovers, they almost had twice as many turnovers as Indiana, So a lot of.

It was misfiring by the Knicks.

It was misfiring by the Knicks.

But I felt last night when I watched that game, I felt like Indiana was in control of it most of it.

But I felt last night when I watched that game, I felt like Indiana was in control of it most of it.

No, they definitely were. I don't think the Knicks led in the second half. I'm you know this pains me to say even more. I want a competitive NBA Finals, right, Who do you think matches up better with the OKAC thunder.

No, they definitely were. I don't think the Knicks led in the second half. I'm you know this pains me to say even more. I want a competitive NBA Finals, right, Who do you think matches up better with the OKAC thunder.

It's not the Knicks, I think.

It's not the Knicks, I think.

Yeah, I don't think anybody matches up perfectly with Oka.

Yeah, I don't think anybody matches up perfectly with Oka.

See.

See.

I think Indiana, because of Halliburton and their pace, they can run with anybody. They're not as good defensively as OKC. But generally when you get to the NBA Finals, remember Oklahoma City would go in as a big favorite. The pressure would be on Oklahoma City, so that is something.

I think Indiana, because of Halliburton and their pace, they can run with anybody. They're not as good defensively as OKC. But generally when you get to the NBA Finals, remember Oklahoma City would go in as a big favorite. The pressure would be on Oklahoma City, so that is something.

And remember they're big as Chet Holmgren.

And remember they're big as Chet Holmgren.

I get Miles Turner and Pascal Sayakham, I get two veteran Biggs.

I get Miles Turner and Pascal Sayakham, I get two veteran Biggs.

They're big as young Chet Holmgren. So I feel like I have a big advantage.

They're big as young Chet Holmgren. So I feel like I have a big advantage.

Now.

Now.

SGA is a better score than Halliburton, but Halliburton plays with great much better pace, much better full court. And so I mean I a lot of people don't think it's a great matchup.

SGA is a better score than Halliburton, but Halliburton plays with great much better pace, much better full court. And so I mean I a lot of people don't think it's a great matchup.

I think Indiana matches up.

I think Indiana matches up.

With everybody and matches up they can match up really well. Nie Smith, you see embodying Brunson by the way the other things. The Pacers are young, Colin. The oldest guys on their roster TJ. McConnell at thirty three and Siakam at thirty one.

With everybody and matches up they can match up really well. Nie Smith, you see embodying Brunson by the way the other things. The Pacers are young, Colin. The oldest guys on their roster TJ. McConnell at thirty three and Siakam at thirty one.

And if you look at.

And if you look at.

Oka see their oldest guy, Caruso thirty one.

Oka see their oldest guy, Caruso thirty one.

This is a young old Sudden. It's a young finals.

This is a young old Sudden. It's a young finals.

And I know it's not like the sexiest matchup, but I do think the Pacers can push them.

And I know it's not like the sexiest matchup, but I do think the Pacers can push them.

I'm not seeing anything from the Knicks that legs me in.

I'm not seeing anything from the Knicks that legs me in.

The Thunder's identity is they force a lot of turnovers and the Pacers don't commit turnovers.

The Thunder's identity is they force a lot of turnovers and the Pacers don't commit turnovers.

Haliburton so ready.

Haliburton so ready.

Haliburton has six turnovers in four games against the Knicks.

Haliburton has six turnovers in four games against the Knicks.

Six and four game. That's like playing forty minutes a night.

Six and four game. That's like playing forty minutes a night.

That's crazy.

That's crazy.

Halliburton has been sensation. Final story.

Halliburton has been sensation. Final story.

Colin is oh Aaron Rodgers. The rumors continue about him in Pittsburgh. Well, let's let's talk about the current starter right now, and that's Mason Rudolph. You know, this guy's been around the league for a minute. Bounced over the Titans last year, and he was asked about how it felt to be back in the black and yellow.

Colin is oh Aaron Rodgers. The rumors continue about him in Pittsburgh. Well, let's let's talk about the current starter right now, and that's Mason Rudolph. You know, this guy's been around the league for a minute. Bounced over the Titans last year, and he was asked about how it felt to be back in the black and yellow.

It's great.

It's great.

I I've been a part where you're getting you jump on the living train late in the spring, and then you're also here from the jumps.

I I've been a part where you're getting you jump on the living train late in the spring, and then you're also here from the jumps.

So I learned that adapt to both. But it's obviously good to be one.

So I learned that adapt to both. But it's obviously good to be one.

Well, you know what he's there's there's a lot worse jobs in the NFL than being mostly a career back up with twenty starts in your career. He's had, he's had a really nice and I remember when he played at Oklahoma State. He's hung around. He's a good guy in the room. I mean, what does it tell you that Pittsburgh brought him back.

Well, you know what he's there's there's a lot worse jobs in the NFL than being mostly a career back up with twenty starts in your career. He's had, he's had a really nice and I remember when he played at Oklahoma State. He's hung around. He's a good guy in the room. I mean, what does it tell you that Pittsburgh brought him back.

He's a good guy. People.

He's a good guy. People.

When you start bringing guys back, they're good in the room. That's why Chase Daniel, that's why he lasted forever. Guys want Josh mcnow with people want him, They want him in the room.

When you start bringing guys back, they're good in the room. That's why Chase Daniel, that's why he lasted forever. Guys want Josh mcnow with people want him, They want him in the room.

Yeah, is that is that why I'm still here? You just want me to.

Yeah, is that is that why I'm still here? You just want me to.

I wouldn't say that's your strength. We're keeping you around. There's budget concerns, so we'll just keep you around for Oh.

I wouldn't say that's your strength. We're keeping you around. There's budget concerns, so we'll just keep you around for Oh.

Wow, okay, right back here.

Wow, okay, right back here.

By J mcklannews.

By J mcklannews.

Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the herd line.

Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the herd line.

I think this is interesting there's obviously there's a lot of pushback on Caitlin Clark walking into.

I think this is interesting there's obviously there's a lot of pushback on Caitlin Clark walking into.

The w NBA and easily being their.

The w NBA and easily being their.

Most popular player. Popularity is hard to I've said this before. Taylor Swift is brilliant and she's gifted, and she's amazing.

Most popular player. Popularity is hard to I've said this before. Taylor Swift is brilliant and she's gifted, and she's amazing.

Do I think she has the best voice? No, No, I don't, And I don't know music.

Do I think she has the best voice? No, No, I don't, And I don't know music.

But you know, I've heard lots of singers who to me there's some sort of visceral connection male and female. But she's universally accepted as the musical artist star. There's been a lot of action heroes. Is Tom Cruise the best actor?

But you know, I've heard lots of singers who to me there's some sort of visceral connection male and female. But she's universally accepted as the musical artist star. There's been a lot of action heroes. Is Tom Cruise the best actor?

I don't know.

I don't know.

He's the biggest star by a mile. Steph Curry's never been the best player in the NBA. I think he's more popular than Lebron Why, I don't know. So for any of the WNBA players that want to make it about anything other than it happens. John Daily was kind of a mess personally, was wildly popular on the PGA tour.

He's the biggest star by a mile. Steph Curry's never been the best player in the NBA. I think he's more popular than Lebron Why, I don't know. So for any of the WNBA players that want to make it about anything other than it happens. John Daily was kind of a mess personally, was wildly popular on the PGA tour.

He was in Everyman.

He was in Everyman.

Brett fall V, I would argue was more popular than Tom Brady. Britty was a much more sus successful quarterback, but people connected with Brett farv and sometimes maybe Tom was austere and he was sort of the gold standard, and you know he wasn't highly emotional and whatever. Who knows, but I do think it's possible. Diana Tarassi knows her stuff. She said that Dallas Wings rookie Page Becker's the Yukon player who was drafted number one. She said, she'll become the best player in the league for sure. So she's been a phenom since she was in the sixth grade. She's not the playmaker of Caitlin Clark, but she's a better pure scorer eventually, better shooter, better well, just better pure score.

Brett fall V, I would argue was more popular than Tom Brady. Britty was a much more sus successful quarterback, but people connected with Brett farv and sometimes maybe Tom was austere and he was sort of the gold standard, and you know he wasn't highly emotional and whatever. Who knows, but I do think it's possible. Diana Tarassi knows her stuff. She said that Dallas Wings rookie Page Becker's the Yukon player who was drafted number one. She said, she'll become the best player in the league for sure. So she's been a phenom since she was in the sixth grade. She's not the playmaker of Caitlin Clark, but she's a better pure scorer eventually, better shooter, better well, just better pure score.

So it's very possible. And back to.

So it's very possible. And back to.

Back years, you're going to get the two most popular WNBA players ever. Happened with Magic and Bird. In the NBA, it just different players, big brands. It happened Listen Mahomes got drafted in twenty seventeen, Josh Allen got drafted in twenty eighteen, both in the AFC. I'd argue to most popular players in the NFL. So Paige Becker was when she was at Yukon, she was the women's college basketball Player of the Year as a freshman. She was much better than Caitlyn Clark, much earlier in life.

Back years, you're going to get the two most popular WNBA players ever. Happened with Magic and Bird. In the NBA, it just different players, big brands. It happened Listen Mahomes got drafted in twenty seventeen, Josh Allen got drafted in twenty eighteen, both in the AFC. I'd argue to most popular players in the NFL. So Paige Becker was when she was at Yukon, she was the women's college basketball Player of the Year as a freshman. She was much better than Caitlyn Clark, much earlier in life.

Much better.

Much better.

Caitlyn Clark, however, played for a college program that we didn't watch or care about until she arrived. Paige Becker has Gino Oriema's brand, the Yukon women's basketball brand, the greatest of all time. Gino's the best coach, that's the biggest brand. It's like being a quarterback at Alabama with Saban. The quarterback kind of gets lost behind Saban, the brand, the defense, you know, just the factory that is Alabama. And so Paige Beckers will probably never be quite as popular because of her route and because Caitlan Clark also has a unique game where she's shooting from thirty eight feet. Caitlin Clark's more of a comet. But if you're talking about who's the better player, there's an argument Page Beckers will be the better player. And I'll say it again, it is it's hard to explain popularity. Big guys like Shaq and Yannis have never sold shoes. Jokic can't sell shoes right like some guys can sell them.

Caitlyn Clark, however, played for a college program that we didn't watch or care about until she arrived. Paige Becker has Gino Oriema's brand, the Yukon women's basketball brand, the greatest of all time. Gino's the best coach, that's the biggest brand. It's like being a quarterback at Alabama with Saban. The quarterback kind of gets lost behind Saban, the brand, the defense, you know, just the factory that is Alabama. And so Paige Beckers will probably never be quite as popular because of her route and because Caitlan Clark also has a unique game where she's shooting from thirty eight feet. Caitlin Clark's more of a comet. But if you're talking about who's the better player, there's an argument Page Beckers will be the better player. And I'll say it again, it is it's hard to explain popularity. Big guys like Shaq and Yannis have never sold shoes. Jokic can't sell shoes right like some guys can sell them.

I don't know, I mean, I look at it.

I don't know, I mean, I look at it.

Nick Wright stopped by yesterday talking about Caitlin Clark and her effect around the NBA.

Nick Wright stopped by yesterday talking about Caitlin Clark and her effect around the NBA.

I would encourage people who are big time pre Caitlin Clark WNBA fans or women's basketball fans to embrace this rather than pushback against it. Do you know who the biggest beneficiaries of Tiger Woods were other golfers. I think, you know, one of the biggest winners from Caitlan Clark is going to be Asia Wilson, who is still the best player in the sport. I think Paige Becker's who it could be a real rivalry with Caitlin.

I would encourage people who are big time pre Caitlin Clark WNBA fans or women's basketball fans to embrace this rather than pushback against it. Do you know who the biggest beneficiaries of Tiger Woods were other golfers. I think, you know, one of the biggest winners from Caitlan Clark is going to be Asia Wilson, who is still the best player in the sport. I think Paige Becker's who it could be a real rivalry with Caitlin.

Clark over the next decade. She's a winner from this.

Clark over the next decade. She's a winner from this.

Yeah, it's I mean, if you look at the history of superstars and sports, they almost always have they're kind of the same in age like Messi and Ronaldo, Peyton, Manning and Brady Mahomes and Josh Allen, Magic and Bird. I mean, you know, I don't know there are exact ages, but I you know, I grew up in the you know, the Aulian Fraser, Sugar, Ray Leonard and Hagler is you generally need a conflict. It doesn't matter if one's a villain, you just it didn't matter if Magic or Bird were more popular, they were both popular and both had very parochial tribal followings Lakers and Celtics. So if you look through five WNBA games, Paige Beckers is very close to Caitlin Clark. Now, Caitlin's scoring more, but again, she's been in the league. And it's very hard at any level to go from college to professional in your first five games.

Yeah, it's I mean, if you look at the history of superstars and sports, they almost always have they're kind of the same in age like Messi and Ronaldo, Peyton, Manning and Brady Mahomes and Josh Allen, Magic and Bird. I mean, you know, I don't know there are exact ages, but I you know, I grew up in the you know, the Aulian Fraser, Sugar, Ray Leonard and Hagler is you generally need a conflict. It doesn't matter if one's a villain, you just it didn't matter if Magic or Bird were more popular, they were both popular and both had very parochial tribal followings Lakers and Celtics. So if you look through five WNBA games, Paige Beckers is very close to Caitlin Clark. Now, Caitlin's scoring more, but again, she's been in the league. And it's very hard at any level to go from college to professional in your first five games.

I don't care who you are, but Paige Beckers is in the sixth grade.

I don't care who you are, but Paige Beckers is in the sixth grade.

There's a legendary picture of her in the sixth grade where she was the best sixth grader in the country. There's an argument she is the better basketball talent, and I think it's very possible.

There's a legendary picture of her in the sixth grade where she was the best sixth grader in the country. There's an argument she is the better basketball talent, and I think it's very possible.

Yeah, there's the pen that's funny.

Yeah, there's the pen that's funny.

I think it's very very possible that we've got a Brady Manning thing here or a Michelson Tiger thing here. In tennis, man men's tennis, you had three. You had Nadal, Feedder and Djokovic, so that that was rare when you had three greatest players probably of all time. Feeder I think is a little older, but all playing, all rivals, all kind of got along. But I think it and let's not make it more than it is, like, well, why are they the why are they the two most popular players?

I think it's very very possible that we've got a Brady Manning thing here or a Michelson Tiger thing here. In tennis, man men's tennis, you had three. You had Nadal, Feedder and Djokovic, so that that was rare when you had three greatest players probably of all time. Feeder I think is a little older, but all playing, all rivals, all kind of got along. But I think it and let's not make it more than it is, like, well, why are they the why are they the two most popular players?

They're new?

They're new?

Who can explain popularity? It's it's impossible to explain. It's like the Rock didn't go to Juilliard School of Acting. He demands the biggest paycheck in Hollywood. He's a pro wrestler. Arnold was the governor of California. I can't explain it. You would have never guest Arnold Schwarzenegger as an action star. You would have laughed if I suggested, yes, he will be as a moderate to a conservative, the governor of California. Sometimes it can be hard to understand. He's got a lot of alpha. He smokes a lot of cigars. He maybe the governor of California. Who can explain it. It's like I tell my kids, like, don't wake up seeking happiness.

Who can explain popularity? It's it's impossible to explain. It's like the Rock didn't go to Juilliard School of Acting. He demands the biggest paycheck in Hollywood. He's a pro wrestler. Arnold was the governor of California. I can't explain it. You would have never guest Arnold Schwarzenegger as an action star. You would have laughed if I suggested, yes, he will be as a moderate to a conservative, the governor of California. Sometimes it can be hard to understand. He's got a lot of alpha. He smokes a lot of cigars. He maybe the governor of California. Who can explain it. It's like I tell my kids, like, don't wake up seeking happiness.

It's a rainbow.

It's a rainbow.

You could be happy one minute, sad the next.

You could be happy one minute, sad the next.

Wake up with a purpose.

Wake up with a purpose.

You'll find happiness or happiness will find you being popular.

You'll find happiness or happiness will find you being popular.

I can't explain it. There are politicians I love.

I can't explain it. There are politicians I love.

They can't win elections or don't or lose elections regularly.

They can't win elections or don't or lose elections regularly.

I can't explain it.

I can't explain it.

But I do think Paige Becker's and Caitlin Clark, I think it's very possible. In two years, they're the two most popular players in the WNBA and not necessarily the two best. Asia Wilson is a better player right now for the Las Vegas Eys.

But I do think Paige Becker's and Caitlin Clark, I think it's very possible. In two years, they're the two most popular players in the WNBA and not necessarily the two best. Asia Wilson is a better player right now for the Las Vegas Eys.

Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays and Noone Easter not a Empacific on Fox Sports Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.

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Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio.

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You could catch us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the iHeartRadio App.

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Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.

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We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world.

We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world.

We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture, stories that well other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss.

We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture, stories that well other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss.

And the fact that we've been friends for the last twenty years and still work together.

And the fact that we've been friends for the last twenty years and still work together.

I mean that says something, right, So check us out.

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Be sure to check out Covino and Rich Live on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app from five to seven pm Eastern two to four Pacific.

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Well. Rachel Nichols has been covering the NBA since nineteen ninety three, and we are watching an Indiana team fly through Milwaukee Cleveland, the Knicks, and Rachel's now joining us live. Rachel I've said, I don't think this is an anti Knicks series. I think what we're watching is an ascending superstar who put up a line last night that only Oscar Roberts and his rival. I think we're watching the next great NBA player. And because he's not vertical or doesn't drop forty two, we're not quite sure what to do with it.

Well. Rachel Nichols has been covering the NBA since nineteen ninety three, and we are watching an Indiana team fly through Milwaukee Cleveland, the Knicks, and Rachel's now joining us live. Rachel I've said, I don't think this is an anti Knicks series. I think what we're watching is an ascending superstar who put up a line last night that only Oscar Roberts and his rival. I think we're watching the next great NBA player. And because he's not vertical or doesn't drop forty two, we're not quite sure what to do with it.

But it's a lot of magic.

But it's a lot of magic.

Johnson to me, Yeah, Look, he has so much fun to watch, right first of all, and he's the kind of guy that if your team wasn't playing against him, you'd want Tyrese Haliburton on your team, he.

Johnson to me, Yeah, Look, he has so much fun to watch, right first of all, and he's the kind of guy that if your team wasn't playing against him, you'd want Tyrese Haliburton on your team, he.

Plays the right way.

Plays the right way.

Obviously, that stat line he put up last night to be able to do thirty fifteen ten no turnovers, I mean, it really is just absolutely crazy what he was able to do. Plus he's got the bravado, right, he's got the swag, He's got everything you want if you are a fan of basketball, and you're right, he makes the right plays, he does it the right way. He's not dropping forty or fifty every night. But if you like the game, you like the way Tyres Haliburton plays ball.

Obviously, that stat line he put up last night to be able to do thirty fifteen ten no turnovers, I mean, it really is just absolutely crazy what he was able to do. Plus he's got the bravado, right, he's got the swag, He's got everything you want if you are a fan of basketball, and you're right, he makes the right plays, he does it the right way. He's not dropping forty or fifty every night. But if you like the game, you like the way Tyres Haliburton plays ball.

You know, one of the things that the advantage to losing a series is that you know your deficiencies.

You know, one of the things that the advantage to losing a series is that you know your deficiencies.

Okay, we don't do this well.

Okay, we don't do this well.

And the Knicks front office has been really patient in this rebuild, and I don't think they need a ton, but it's pretty clear that Kat and Brunson, you know, many of Kat's best moments and when Brunson's not on the floor, because I think Brunson plays better with a catch and shoot guy like Kevin Durant. So my take is it's nothing wrong with Cat and Brunson, but we do have a minus twenty four when they're on the court together, and they're not great defensively, do you think the KD thing, which it feels like he checks boxes. I get length, I get experience, I get catch and shoot. What do you make of the just a suggestion.

And the Knicks front office has been really patient in this rebuild, and I don't think they need a ton, but it's pretty clear that Kat and Brunson, you know, many of Kat's best moments and when Brunson's not on the floor, because I think Brunson plays better with a catch and shoot guy like Kevin Durant. So my take is it's nothing wrong with Cat and Brunson, but we do have a minus twenty four when they're on the court together, and they're not great defensively, do you think the KD thing, which it feels like he checks boxes. I get length, I get experience, I get catch and shoot. What do you make of the just a suggestion.

Of that, I mean, look, I assume then you mean you're swapping him out for Karl Anthony Towns, And I'm not sure if the Knicks are going to want to do that. Just a you're into the Cat experiment, I think you hit it on the head when you talked about the plus minus. The issue to me of Cat and Brunson on the floor together is not so much offensively, it's defensively. You've got two targets out there. I when you get to this level of the playoffs, when you get to the final four, this elite level of basketball and shot making, you cannot have two targets out there at the same time. And that is the biggest lesson. I think the Knicks are going to learn from this as they go into the off season. I would expect them to pursue guys who maybe aren't his big fancy names, but like a Walker Kessler from Utah, somebody who can give them a little bit more of that presence without having to tear up the team they have because they like this team, and they should like this team. This team got to the conference finals for the first time in that city in twenty five years. I would not make huge changes, but I would clean up around the edges, and that is one of the biggest places to me to clean up.

Of that, I mean, look, I assume then you mean you're swapping him out for Karl Anthony Towns, And I'm not sure if the Knicks are going to want to do that. Just a you're into the Cat experiment, I think you hit it on the head when you talked about the plus minus. The issue to me of Cat and Brunson on the floor together is not so much offensively, it's defensively. You've got two targets out there. I when you get to this level of the playoffs, when you get to the final four, this elite level of basketball and shot making, you cannot have two targets out there at the same time. And that is the biggest lesson. I think the Knicks are going to learn from this as they go into the off season. I would expect them to pursue guys who maybe aren't his big fancy names, but like a Walker Kessler from Utah, somebody who can give them a little bit more of that presence without having to tear up the team they have because they like this team, and they should like this team. This team got to the conference finals for the first time in that city in twenty five years. I would not make huge changes, but I would clean up around the edges, and that is one of the biggest places to me to clean up.

So I listen in case he's gonna win this series. I don't think there's any question. I said this yesterday. We forget that Aunt is twenty three years old and SGA is twenty six, and you can see it. It's like seeing Mahomes as a rookie and Mahomes in year five. He's way better pre snap he sees the field, I don't think. I think sometimes Aunt can be a little collaborative. I think he should be a bit more aggressive. But what is your sort of take in what you're hearing about this series where he feels like, you know, not in SGA's league.