The Herd with Colin CowherdColin talks to Michigan State head coach Tom Izzo about preparing for the Big Dance and adjusting to the modern landscape of college basketball
Where Colin was right and wrong
Colin gives his new Herd Hierarchy
Pro Bowl TE Marcedes Lewis joins the show in studio to talk about playing for the Bears and how he’s preparing to play his 20th NFL season
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How lucky are we? I asked the guys, I said, just get me. Just get me is on Mark few and I'm good and Tom is Oh. Thirty seasons at Michigan State, eight Final four appearances. Okay, I've watched to play four times. You defend the three, you don't shoot it particularly well.
Okay, I'm just being fair.
Your team's always defend, they rebound, They're tough, like Patino. You coach your players hard and they respond to it. What about this team? What's the secret sauce about this team? That why you like them?
Connect?
You know, and everybody talks about being connected, Colin, but this team is really connected.
It's been connected, and you.
Know, we've kind of put our egos aside and everybody's playing for each other.
And that doesn't always happen. We're playing nine to ten guys.
We're we do.
Rebound pretty well, we actually score it pretty well, we shoot free throws well, and yes, you are correct, you did your scouting report.
Did not shoot the three very well.
But the last two three weeks we've been moving up drastically from the three, and if we can get that down, I think we could really do some damage.
You know, it's funny.
A lot of coaches, my buddy Jay Wright, I think there's a lot of coaches that look at nil and transfer portal and go get me out of here. And I don't know if Jay did that, but I think, you know, Jay's such a great guy. But you have kind of said, like, hey, this is the world. I can complain or I can adapt. Why have you with all this fluctuation? Why are you still Michigan State? Why are you still good? Why have you adapted so easily?
Well, since you were honest with me about my three point shooting, I'm gonna be honest with you.
I don't like it. I don't like it.
I don't like it for a lot of reasons, especially in the transfer portal. I think more kids are going to get hurt. But that's another story on another day. But like Jay Right, like Nick Saban. You know those guys are friends of mine. They decided to go another way. I'm too dumb and stubborn to do it.
I guess I just.
Figured that I got to get back to the basics. Last year, I was on all kinds of committees.
I worried about it.
This year, I kind of stuck the coach in my team, and I've been lucky.
I got some good players.
I got a couple of guys that have really elevated their game. I got one of my former stars, Jason Richardson's son, who has.
Really elevated his game.
And you got a player's son from the past that either means you're getting older you survived.
Oh and I don't know.
What's you know, it's interesting years ago. It's funny about the tournament. Everybody loves Florida, and I said, be very careful hot teams. It doesn't translate all the time. You got to be caring for years and years. Everybody always said you gotta have great guard play. Well, you know what does matter in your years of doing this, is there one or two things that absolutely translate from regular season to March.
Well, you know, I'm a big football guy. I love football, and I think in football.
You know, at the end of the day, yes, still all the fancy stuff comes and goes.
You still got to be able to block and tackle and not turn the ball over.
Well, and you ask me.
And basketball, you still got to be able to defend and run and you can't turn the ball over. So there are some things that are similar no matter what sport you're in. Ours is a little different because that damn ball's got to go in the basket sooner or later. You could run all the best offense. If the final shot doesn't go in, it hurts. But I think what translates defense carries just like it does in all other sports, whether it's hockey, baseball, basketball, or football. We've been pretty solid. That's why I think we've had a pretty good run. But you know, getting to the free throw line, I think matters and making shots because in the tournament you get down to the nitty gritty and people are following you. So you got to be able to make free throws, which we can do on the three point line.
We're improving.
Listen, I'm not a scout. I just watched your games and I'm like, Okay, that's not what they do.
You know.
It's interesting.
I was talking to Mark view Friday, and when I've talked to Mark privately, and I'm like, hey, do you ever steal stuff from coaches? And He's like, oh God, yes, I take stuff from everybody. When you've been around as long as you've been, do you ever find yourself during the court You're sitting at home and all of a sudden you watch a game and you're.
Like, oh, I must steal that. I like that inbounds play?
Do you do that?
I'm so dumb and Mark, for you and I are good friends.
We're both on these committees that we just went through all this, but I'm so dumb. I not only steal it, but I name it after the team I steal it from. So if I got a Zags player, if I got a seventy six Ers player, a Lakers play, it's because I stole it from them. So my plays are named after a lot of people or a lot of teams, which means I'm stealing a lot.
Yeah.
So listen, I watched the SEC this year and I said this, I picked Auburn to win it, and I said, I think it helps when your conference is good because you get battle tested, you're in close games.
Is there I ask everybody this.
In fact, I asked few about this, and he said, Houston, is there a team you've either played or scouted that you've looked at and you think to yourself today, Yeah, I'd rather not see them until maybe the final four. Who's a team that guys like me won't pay attention to, but you've seen them and you're like, yeah, that team's trouble.
Well, it's interesting, Mark said, Houston. Believe it or not, I replaced Kelvin Samson here as a GA. He used to work for jud Heathcote many years ago. And I think my teams are tough and pretty good defensively.
I think his teams are insane.
They're like the eighty five or six Bears, whatever it was. You know, they're phenomenal defensive team.
They got toughness.
What he's done is he's added the three point shot and now they're a better shooting team. So I'd have to agree with Mark. They're one of But I saw Auburn in person and Hawaii we didn't play them, but I saw him. They were impressive. Florida has been impressive as of late. I still think the Alabamas, but I played against them last year.
I think Tennessee still brings those intangibles.
Yeah, they have toughness, they're well coached, Rick as a great coach, and they're really really good defensively.
So it was a politic's answer. I gave you a bunch of them.
By the way, I see right behind you you have lunch. So you look fantastic for your age. What do you have back there? Vegetables, the kale salad? What are you having for lunch?
It's a salad man. You got good eyes. Your scutting reports are pretty good. You got that. We catch you threes and I eat salad for lunch. This is a hell of a deal man.
Tom Izzo, the great Tom is Oh, good luck coach, Thanks for coming on the herd.
Thanks God, say aboudy.
All right, Tom is Oh a great coach. I actually have j Mac. I have Tennessee in my final four.
Interesting.
Interesting.
I also have a ridiculous dark horse. Oh ah, I'm not going to get into I know. I want to save it for the audience tomorrow, no later, in the next hour. I gotta give you the audience some gems. I have Auburn winning it. I do have Tennessee in the final four.
Okay, I can't hate it. No, no love for Cooper Flag and Duke. How good did Duke without Cooper Flag in the AEC tournament. I know the a SEC wasn't great.
Anybody can go total chop. You have to have at least a four seed in there?
Is that? What the minimum is? A four seed?
Well, I mean that's historically not a lot of five seeds get.
In, like last year, NC State, two years ago. Fau like somebody always sneaks it.
I have a sneaky team.
They play as sneaky as you see San Diego.
God, everybody is on that Wait.
I talked about him last weekend.
Michigan, Yeah, I already bet it money line and with the points.
Michigan's big.
They are big, but they don't have any depth.
And there's a history of Big ten tournament teams trying super hard in the Big ten tournament where you scout well and you care four games and four days and then you've got to turn around and play quickly.
You know what let down?
You know, it's ridiculous.
College basketball is the only sport where your conference tournament means nothing.
Well, I mean like Michigan, Michigan got a fifth.
Seed, didn't they won the tournament, didn't get anything.
Out of it.
That's a that's a fair point.
Yeah, Michigan is very big as you see San Diego that just became a Division one couple of years ago.
Now, they're a great story that the athletic had an awesome story on them.
This is gonna sound so nerdy.
I stole some of his coaching principles and applied it to my kids youth basketball leagues. They do this no middle defense where everybody keeps a foot in the paint. We're not giving up playoffs. You're not getting in the late even though they have no size, and it works great.
Uh listen, man.
That sounds like the Wildcat offense.
That's what it sounds are teasing no middle defense.
I guarantee you it'll work for a week.
That's all you need, well, three weeks to win the title. You see, they're not they're not winning the title obviously.
So I've watched Michigan State. Michigan State's the kind of team that's gonna win multiple gay. They play too hard, they play defense, they rebound, they just don't shoot threes.
That's not what they do.
They gotta get Jason Richardson's kids more shots. There is those a little too balanced. We got to We've got to sub them out and get all these.
Other Richardson's a stud. That kid is awesome. We've got to get more shots, keep them on the floor.
This is such a fun time of the year.
This is the greatest.
Yeah, there's only one time of the year.
I don't talk to my wife about finances.
It's this weekend.
You know.
I'm gonna go ahead and guess Aaron Rodgers makes a decision like Thursday or Friday, because it's got to be about Aaron all the time, you know. And he's gonna try to steal the thunder from the anament.
That felt like a little bit.
Haws your boy doing. Is he in a darkness retreat?
I haven't heard anything.
Boy, a lot of shots fired, I am. You know what is he might bump into him at Arawon here in Malibu. You gotta be very careful.
I'm not going to Malibu. All the earthquakes are hitting over there.
I had a shaker yesterday.
Yeah I didn't feel it.
Oh I did.
I did locked in on brackets.
So I thought it was the gininsoda. It was just it was just a default line.
Hour two next, be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays and noon Easter nin am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
All Right, here we go, Colin right, Colin wrong. Every Monday.
Where Colin was right, I've taken another right. On the Warriors now fourteen and two. Since Jimmy Butler arrived, they have the best net rating in the league. And when they made this move, I said, it's more than just scoring. It's the fact that he's tough. He fits their ethos, he fits their mindset. And what's great about Jimmy Butler is completely unselfish player on this team. He's not taking a lot of shots, he's not taking a lot of threes, and he does not care playoff Jimmy. He has been absolutely great. And this was a move I had said a month before. Get him in the building. It will work.
Where Colin was raw.
I thought the historically perpetually frugal Bengals would not sign Jamar Chase and t Higgins, and they did, and reportedly Trey Hendrickson is now talking his reps to the team. Listen, will they be top heavy? Yeah, but the NFL owners all get a check for four hundred and fifty million dollars. This league is swimming in money. There's four great players on this team. Pay them. Everybody's swimming in cash. You see what they're paying coordinators. I mean these owners have money to burn. I was wrong on this.
One, where Colin was right.
What a shocker. Aaron Rodgers is dramatic Minnesota now not sure if we're gonna go. Giants have offered him, but reportedly we're gonna draft a quarterback to or bring another one in. He was gonna have to battle for the job. So I've said this before. You know, Aaron's his own guy. You're gonna get some noise in drama, and it has turned out. If I would have told you either there is one quarterback who can't make up his mind, you would have guessed.
Aeron where Colin was raw.
I thought Gino Smith to the Raiders. I don't have a problem with it. But reportedly he's gonna get forty to forty five million. That's a big contract. He's never won a playoff game. Last year twenty one Tds fifteen picks. Sam Darnold criticized him. All you want signed a team friendly deal, and he's seven years younger and more athletics. So I don't have a problem with Gino Smith making them, you know, going to Seattle. I kind of like it for Pete Carroll, but I didn't think he had another forty five million dollar a year contracting.
Where Colin was right.
I said a year ago the Niners should reboot. They waited a year, and now they're they're doing They're getting doged. Essentially, they're moving off all sorts of contracts, and I said they should have done it last year. Ward is now gone, green, loss, smart, good player's gone.
Who fund it?
Excellent safety, struggles with health that's gone. I thought last year they got too old, too expensive, and increasingly too brittle. So this is what I said last year they should have done. They waited a year to.
Do it, where Colin was wrong.
Little surprise, John Snyder signed Cooper Cup to that deal. His yards have declined four straight seasons. McVay moved off him because he couldn't get open. He's also missed eighteen games in the last three years.
Now.
Schneider has drafted and acquired receivers at a really good rate, so he knows his stuff. But again there's a forty five million dollars three years. Again the league has so much much money now they're looking for like a number two or three receiver.
But I'd be honest with you, I didn't think. I didn't think he'd get that number.
Where Colin was right when Brian Kelly left Notre Dame, I said it because the SEC is all about commitment. And this weekend LSU doubled its NIL money to eighteen million a year after losing a recruit to Michigan and again Notre Dame. You have rigorous debates about academics at LSU. What's it cost to winning Natty? And that's not a knock on Notre Dame. I love them for who they are. But this is why he left, because you don't have to argue. You lose a top recruit to a Northern school, suddenly they double the nil at LSU.
Where Colin was wrong.
Well, the Falcons kept their veteran quarterback on their roster, a little bit of a surprise after the way he play at the end of the year.
I like Kirk Cousins. I didn't have a problem with a move.
I thought his first half of the season was excellent, and I thought that's what you would get for the two year contract.
Kind of regressed whatever.
It was, lost his fastball. I would think it's Michael Pennock's time in Atlanta, but this move makes me question that.
And Colin Wright Colin wrong. On a Monday.
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays and Noone Eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Oh here we go, it's our two live in LA. It's The Herd wherever you may be and however you may be listening, Thanks for making us part of your day. By the way, Big Ten ratings, Big Ten Championship ratings the best in like ten years. College basketball, Caitlin Clark's numbers last year. People maybe moving away from pro basketball, they're not moving away from college basketball.
Big East ratings a massive for FS one.
Huge, huge record setting.
Listen, man, college basketball is going to have a great tournament. You need to start talking more brackets.
I talked college basketball two hours yesterday.
I know i'd listen.
I gotta take a lot of credit for that because you're not a big college.
That's not that I'm not a big college hoops guy. I love my guys. I bring four or five coaches. I love my guys. But it does feel sometimes like it's a bracket not a sport, like it's all about the bracket. But I will say, if you look at the ratings for these conference championships, people were into them. By the way, Saint John's being good is so huge for college basketball because they play some of their games in the Garden. Yes, so they kind of flipped back and forth college basketball. New York has always been an unbelievable basketball town because in New York, some people are Yankee fans, some are Mets, some people are are Jet fans, they're Giants. Everybody's a Nick fan, everybody's a Saint John's fan. So I mean when when Sarahcuse and Saint John We're crushing college basketball, I mean New York.
Was just the mecca.
I mean, you have USC UCLA out here, but there's just you know, the beach, the weather.
Of the mountains. In New York.
The winner of a college the winner is basketball season, a lot of it. When the knicksher Homon and Saint John's hummand the energy in New York is it's so good for college basket.
There's a map floating around the internet. How if you cut the country almost in half.
Nobody's won a national championship since I think Arizona in like of the late nineties, like nobody West is very good.
Right now? Who's the best West Coast team in college.
In Well, Gonzaga is the most Gonzaga is the most consistently good team Arizona, I would say his second.
And that's it, all right.
So before I get to Nick, right, So PFF came out today with the uh they ranked all the rosters one to thirty two. I'm not gonna do that, but I did take free agency and free agency losses. I considered everything. So we have our coaching moves all set. We have free agency outside of Aaron Rodgers. Again, I think he maybe adds a win to wherever he goes, maybe two wins. But I don't think he's changing. He's not changing divisions, forget about changing the sport. I just don't think he is. It's not a shot on him. I think Russell Wilson again could be worth a win to a team that didn't have a right quarterback. But I will tell you what I think based on free agency gains and losses and kind of what teams are going through right now where we stand with the top ten, I would put Green Bay at ten. They remained the year ten the youngest offense in the NFL, the youngest roster. They overpaid for Aaron Banks at guard, but it was a position of need, and again, when you have a young quarterback, you've got to protect him. Now, Jordan Love did not play well in the last month of the season, and that is a concern. Plus, Chicago's better, Minnesota could be really good. The division is very good offensively. I have Green Bay at ten.
Number nine.
Denver's going to improve good. How how good was Bo Nicks as a rookie? Well, how how good do you think he's going to be year two with Sean Payton. They got Evan Ingram with Sean Payton calls their joker position. Like Deebo, he can do multiple things. They spent more money on free agency than any playoff team, and again bow Knicks and entire higher off season with Sean Payton. So getting Drake Greenlaw and Hufunga. Those are big, instinctive, smart guys who will upgrade the defense. Everybody in the AFC West, including the Raiders. That division's getting really good, really fast.
Number eight.
The Commanders. Their O line last year was ten.
Now they added Laramie Tunzel, a top three pass blocker. Deebo Samuel is one of the great moves of free agency, the classic chess piece. So this is a team that could get four to five starters out of the draft. Got two absolute starters in free agency. And again Jaden Daniels as a rookie was amazing. Another off season to learn Cliff's offense. I have him at eight.
Number seven.
Really worry about Kansas City. Joe Tooney is one of the more valuable offensive lineman in the league. Left and they didn't want him to leave. They couldn't afford him. They don't have a left tackle. They paid a lot for Jalen Moore, who's never been a starter, and there's pass rushers all over that division. By the way, they're not gonna go eleven to zero in one score games. Raiders are better, Broncos will be better, The Chargers will be better. Listen, it never lasts forever. I think it's gonna be a slight pullback here. I still have them as a playoff team. You're not going eleven to zero in one score games. The division now is simply too good. Number six the Chargers. I think Najie Harris only player in the league four straight thousand yard seasons behind a bad Steeler O line and a tone deaf culture. Offensively, Now he goes to Harbaugh. By the way, Harbaugh's second year with the Niners got to the Super Bowl. So think of what Jim Harbaugh turned around in one off season, the worst defense to statistically a top two defense. Now you get another seven to eight draft picks from a coach who just left college football. Nause Harris, Joe alt second year as a starting tackle. I think, like Denver, the Chargers make a jump.
I have them at six.
Number five.
I worry about the Lions.
I like DJ Reid because our pass defense has been lousy for years.
I like that pickup.
They lost both coordinators and they're not going to be as clever without Ben Johnson.
They're just not.
We saw Philadelphia lose both coordinators a couple of years ago and they plummeted. I also think the whole raw raw thing. I think it works early as you're building a culture, but now the culture, the raw raw stuff wears down. Are you as good schematically? Because the NFC is getting better fast. I have the Lions at five, number four. Listen, they got an extension for Josh Allen. I also think Joey Bosa and receiver Josh Palmer are upgrades. The extension, by the way, is fairly team friendly to allow for some flexibility. I thought for much of the year last year they were the best team, and I think they've upgraded. I think Joey Bosa is a better version of von Miller, who was expensive and heard a lot and became kind of a pass rusher own.
I have Buffalo at.
Four, number three.
Ravens rosters ranked number one by PFF. They got Lonnie Stanley and again that number one offense last year. I don't see it regressing. This list is not about who's going to win the Super Bowl. It is how do I value your roster and your team right now, based on free agency gains and losses and extensions. Dear, best player. I have the Ravens at three, number two. I let the Rams crushed poona four defensive line that was an area of need, and Devonte Adams and retain Matt Stafford, and their defense Thanksgiving on was arguably the best in the league. Go ask Sam Darnold sack nine times. So this defense is just getting better every month because they're so young and inexpensive. I put the Rams at two. Go back to that game in the snow in Philly. They're down to the fifteen yard line with a chance to go with two turnovers, with a chance to go in for the win. Real team head in the right direction. Number one. Listen, they didn't overpay for Milton Williams. They had some free agent losses, but they have drafted so well. Philadelphia's number one.
Again.
They are smart enough to know who to pay for and who to let go. And I thought all their moves made sense to me. Zach Fawn bringing him back to linebacker surprised me a little at that price point, but again, I'm gonna give Philadelphia the benefit here. It remains the deepest roster with the most dexterity.
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Rich nineteen years in the NFL. How about that second oldest player looks great to Aaron Rodgers, by the way, who always appreciated you. Mercedes Lewis, the former UCLA Bruin. God, you were drafted back in two thousand and six by the Jags. Out of you, I remember your college career. So we were talking during the break. It is interesting I can remember now. I'm old enough to remember when any Cunningham for the Steelers was like he made it a targeted game. And then you'd see Kellen Winslow and you're like, well that's a once out of a twenty year player. It feels like there's a lot more Kellen Winslow ish guys coming out of college. What is the single biggest change at tight end from this past year to your rookie year.
Well, I would say obviously I came in at a time where it was more run, heavy play action pass, let's control the clock being then extra extension of the line, and if we need you to stress the field, great, here you go catch a bone to come back and come block this power play.
Right.
So as far as it change, though, every like tight ends now are more spread out, and I think the responsibility of the tight end is changing as time, you know, as time goes on, right, Like you, When I came in, it was like, okay, you have your number one tight end and then you know you'll have two tight ends behind me, but they're not really going to be.
Expected to do much work, right.
It's special teams, uh, And if I need a break or my my shoe comes untied, I'll come out if somebody comes in. Now, what you're saying, teams are starting to get more guys, you know, more depth at these different positions to kind of take the workload off of the number one guy. So for instance, Travis Kelce right elite passed Casher, you know what you're gonna get out of him. You want to keep it as fresh as possible, so you're gonna have him there. And then who's behind him Gray? You'll have Noah Gray, who's your guy that can kind of do it all right, and then the guy behind Noorh Gray is going to be the more utility guy, special teams guy, all in an effort to keep the number one guy healthy, right, and continue to develop the guys behind Travis.
But that's what it's more geared towards now. And I like it.
It's kind of like when you think of like the running backs and you have like your your guy that's going to run in between the tackles, your bruiser, and then you got your guy that is catching, you know, catching the ball out the back. I feel pitches, sweeps and things of that nature. But it keeps guys fresh and throughout the course of a year.
You need that some of some of what you've done is you know, I mean, I remember when you came out of college.
It's like, could this guy play in the NBA?
Remember Dave Winfield a baseballs You had a Dave Winfield quality. You're like, he just decided to play a sport. You could have played more than one. So but I wonder how much of nineteen years is just mindset. Do you think that matters?
Yeah, I think that's a good point. Obviously, the physical part of this game, you know what you're signing up for. I've been playing football so I was seven years old, and it's something that I've grown accustomed to. But my mentality is which sets me apart, and having a routine and my.
Adaptability as well.
The game is gonna evolve, It's gonna, you know, continue to evolve. If you want to have a loan career, then you have to find ways to kind of keep that edge and do the same. And obviously, when I came out of UCLA pass catcher, setting records, touchdowns, all of that got to Jacksonville. Those first three years was kind of like a culture shock because we didn't pass the ball at the rate. You know, I caught the ball in college. But what that did was prepare me for what the role was going to be ahead, right, and that was getting that gristle on my bones and really embracing the grind. And I've been able to weaponize the grind throughout my career. And you know, nowadays, when the expectations.
Are a certain way, I've already been through that. I know what it looks like.
So I'm able to lead from the front and help the guys that are coming behind me and let them know that, like, this is truly a privilege to be in this league. And if you want to play for a long time, and you know, you want to have a really successful career, it's about the grit and the grind.
And that's what I thought off of.
So cold comment Notre Damer. I met him at the USC Notre Dame game. Really engaging guy. That's my guy, really nice guy. And so you were in Chicago. I'm moving the base of our show to Chicago and I'm going there after the show and wife's family's there is you know. J Mack is like, I can't take the cold weather. Now you're a West Coast guy, can you at least acknowledge to J Mack?
Chicago's a fun time.
I will say this. Obviously.
I played twelve years in Jacksonville five and Green Bay. I just finished my second in Chicago. I think the city of Chicago is probably one of my favorite cities I've ever been in. And I was born in Lone Beach. I went to UCLA right, Love Love LA. This is where I'm from, this is where the family is. But Chicago is probably one of my favorite cities to ever be in architecture, everything, man, the food is amazing.
The people are just great. People dress up.
Yeah, no, it's and you mentioned the cold, Like, yes, it is cold, we do understand that. But like I feel like I dressed the best when it's cold, you know what I mean. I can layer up, I can wear my trench codes for my hoodies.
And everything.
Okay, I tell him that, you know, you know when I tell my wife this, Yeah, I'm like, man, you are in the winter.
She's got layers.
Come on, yes, like that's got good looking people. Yes, that's what it's about. Like I'm telling you. When it's hot outside. Sometimes in when I'm in my house, I don't even know what I'm wearing. Like I'll leave out with swim trunks with a hoodie just because I'm like, well maybe cold, you know la Is It's like, yeah, it says seventy eight, but the breeze, Like, I don't give me something that I know if it's gonna be sixty. I'm a dressed like it's sixty and I know exactly what I'm walking into. So I enjoy it like it's a good time.
So we do worry a little about Caleb Williams. And I've said this. I love him personally.
I mean, he's a good guy his and I think this was a fair not even a criticism, it was a fair kind of summation of him in college sometimes. And I think a lot of this was he didn't trust his own line. He just wouldn't out them publicly. Is that he was kind of a big play guy instead of taking the lay up, which that's the NFL. Mahomes takes a lot of layouts, no doubt. You know, Michael Jordan about twice a night was jaw dropping. Other than that, Michael hit a lot of eighteen footers. You come down and that he was a little prone to go wild play over just boom, boom boom. Did you sense a little bit of that early in him growing out of that?
Yeah, I think you know, when you have a guy like Caleb and the ability that he has to get that ball out of his hand and throw off platform and make it look make hard stuff look very easy, and if you're doing it in college and you've been able to get away with it in college, obviously the natural progressions when you come into the league you're going to try to do some of those things. And so I think, you know, in his defense, obviously, with our offense last year, yeah, the firing of coaches, it was a lot going on, and he was just trying to do the best job he could, trying to take on all the information. Obviously, the offense kind of like shifted midway through the season, like it was just it was just a lot going on for him, and I think that, you know, obviously bringing Ben Johnson in and being able to pair him with Caleb and Caleb's ability to kind of be who he is, and Ben is going to be able to get in there and get into his mind and kind of create this offense around Caleb so that you know, he understands the structure how things should work in the NFL, and you know, you're not going to question Ben's ability to put guys in position to make plays and right you know, I'm looking forward to watching it.
It's going to be Uh, are you going to play again?
Yeah?
Yeah, I mean I'm at nineteen obviously that's all fine and dandy, but.
Twenty just sore. I don't know where yet.
You know, there's been a few teams probing to kind of see if I'm going to continue to play, and so it's all in the universe's hiss and I'm just gonna do my job like I've always done this offseason and train my butt off and I'll be ready when that.
Would you like to go to Chicago?
Of course? That's best case scenario?
Yeah, yeah, what's second best case scenario? You know, Chargers could use a they could use a tough guy.
Yeah, I'm gonna leave that open to interpretation. I'm not gonna, obviously for me to put Chicago out there. I've been there the last two years. I'm familiar with you got guys, the process, and you know that work and what they expect and what's expected of me.
Right, And obviously they.
Got they fired their coaching staff, but they kept my tight end coach who I've had the last two years there and so would be great to finish my career with him. Jim dre is somebody that I respect a lot, and he you know, brings the best out of us in that room. And being able to continue to watch co commit kind of develop and do his thing as he comes into his own and you know, we'll just be a blessing. So you know, obviously, what I can control is being being my personal best and working out and doing my thing, and I'll be ready when that time comes.
So you know Aeron, well, I said I kind of thought he would, uh, Minnesota works. I would have gone to Minnesota. I could see Aeron at this point saying, you know what I kept telling people, I think he likes New York. I think he's a smart guy, likes the city. It's fabric. I think New York is a like Chicago, big smart cities for you know, museums and architecture, and there's just there's always somewhere to go in New York, in Chicago or London. I could see him going to New York. They got a left tackle, offensive coach, weapon, great running back draft. But I could also see Aaron saying, listen, maund forty one, a little bumpy at the end, first bout Hall of Famer. If you had to guest today retirement Steelers Giants, do you have a guess?
My guests would maybe be the Steelers.
You like the Steelers, they don't have a left tackle that worries me.
I think I just that him coming from the Jets, obviously already being in New York. I don't know me knowing a Rod. I don't know if you want to just go right over to the Giants after being with the Jets.
Like I just I feel like.
He wants more of like just something completely new, completely different, potentially get out.
Of New York.
I know him and Tomlin have a really good relationship and a good you know, rapport there, and it's just a still city. I feel like that's the piece that they would need to potentially put them over the top as well. But if I, you know what's having a conversation with Aaron right now about coming back, I would just say, chase joy, not happiness. Happiness is fleeting if you don't find joy in football and everything that comes with it anymore. As far as you know, being scrutinized and everybody picking you apart from the outside, you've done enough. You know you are one of the best that I've ever done it, and like you said, first ballot and a really good friend of mine. So I just whatever it is, take the time to kind of figure that out. He always knows he can lean on me, hit me at whenever he wants to kind of sort through it. But he's definitely done enough. So it'd be interesting to see.
Is he misunderstood.
Yeah, I mean I think.
For people that don't know me, I would be misunderstood as well, you know what I mean. Like it's just one of those things like if you don't know somebody personally, you're going to form your own opinions based on second hand and third hand information that you've gotten. And does a rid kind of provoke it a little bit because he knows.
I think I've said this before, he can be combative. No no, o way with his family. I'm not making stuff up. And I've said and I've met Aaron Wance at the SP's very very quick and even in that little forty five second moment, he's got a big opinion and he'll tell you and he didn't know me, and I'll never say what was said.
But my take is that's who he is.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, exactly, I mean that's just who he is. And if you don't really have the time to kind of like sit there and get to know him and be with him on the day in the day day out, basis, your opinion is probably going to be just like everybody else's opinion that don't really know him.
And so.
You know, I'm grateful to have had those moments with him, and you know, we've actually spent holidays together and you know, spent a lot of time together kind of picking his brain and it's it's just a different psychosis that makes you great. And he's one of those guys.
And and he loves football.
Yeah, he loves it. Man. Just how he prepares how it comes to work.
You know a lot of people don't understand too is and I'll leave it with this. You know, friendships and connections as far as who you respect at the professional level, even really at the college level, it's based on how you come to work and what you what you do in the film room, how you are the field, how you cheat people around the building like that, that's your value. And uh, if you're one of those guys that does it the right way, and he is, and how he leaves from the front end of the building, Uh, you're gonna be best friends. And if you're not, you know, he's gonna you're gonna find out real quick, you know. And a Rod is one of those guys like he's not he's not necessarily gonna pull you aside him. He man, I don't really like this. He's just not gonna talk to you, you know.
What I mean? And like that's just what it is.
Everybody's different.
Who's the biggest trash talker you line up against career and currently a guy that like Max Crosby, he said, he's like a radio announcer, Like he's just talking.
Yeah, so.
Max, Max does talk a lot, But Max backs it up a lot, so he can he can say whatever. Yeah, he's he's a dude, and he's one of those guys, whether it's Max crossby Miles Garrett, whenever I'm going against those two guys, I know that the night, like the night before, my body feels different because I know that, like, uh, come Sunday morning, I'm gonna need all of what I have, uh in order to get my job done. And I think that's the beauty of competition in general. And if I don't feel that, then it may be an issue and I have to like sometimes muster that up right.
And and Max is one of those guys that it's just different.
Yeah, it's just different. You just know that you're gonna get You're gonna you're gonna get a handful of every single play, NonStop.
This is what it is.
Whether you block them, great, just know that the next play he's coming after you. And but that's what I throw off of, Like that's you don't have guys like that no more.
Like Max is an old school guy.
He is a raider from the seventh you know.
What I mean.
Like he's just an old school guy, and like I think for me, that's what I appreciate more are guys that are that way, and you're gonna have guys that talk a lot, but if you're not backing it up like that, then it becomes whatever. Right, Like you can watch the film and he jumps off the film every single place. You know what you're getting right, and you know those are the type of guys you respect every day.
So man, we only get you like twice a year.
I know.
Man, I gotta you're busy. You have a life.
Yeah, I gotta start by it more.
Well no, no, no, it's not your responsibility. I'll just have to fire my guest booker. It's McDill.
So you do you.
Still live over by my favorite restaurant?
Yeah?
So I'm still over there. I'm actually now in Studio City, though I moved down. I just wanted to try some little different. It was being in Thesino was kind of far. Oh yeah, you know, coming back this way. But I'm enjoining Studio City and I'm there for now. So we'll see.
Man, I love to see you with the Bears.
Oh man, let's see what happens.
I'm in the Birds now too.
Yeah. No, they have my numbers, but you know.
I like it like it. I like being just far enough away. But if I want to go get it, you know, I mean it's la.
So maybe who's the biggest personality in the bird, Like a funny guy.
Every locker room's got a funny guy.
I would say DJ Moore.
DJ is like he's unassuming too, Like DJ's quiet at like face value, but like once you get to know him, it's pranks, jokes.
Like he's he's a dude. I love DJ.
A great player, no doubt. Mercedes Lewis, what a pleasure. Maybe we'll go into business someday, let's do it. I got a podcast company.
Sign me up?
Would very popular? Kids like it.
Yeah, we've been talking about this for a long time now. And uh, I got one more that I want to get, get twenty and then wow, let's get it.
Man.
Not like you'd need it, but you're gonna have quite a pension.
I appreciate.
Hey.
You know what's funny about that is like you don't really think about those things because you're you're literally in the grind, and then guys don't necessarily play for this long, so you don't really even.
Yeah, but here's the wild thing.
Yes, there'll be a pension there, but it's more so like some of the things you can't even have access to to your forty five, I'll be forty one in May, like who finishes playing, and then like if I wanted to, it's like, oh yeah, cool, two or three years, I could just.
You could be president, like in forty two. The number on presidency. I think I just retired bears.
And run for off.
But believe me, we could. We could use lots of leadership in the Oh my gosh, Mercedes great. See anybody likewise.
Appreciate you, brother, Appreciate it.
