The Herd with Colin CowherdColin gives the Knicks props for their toughness to take a commanding 2-0 lead in the 2nd round of the playoffs despite all their injuries. He discusses Nikola Jokic winning his 3 MVP and why we are reluctant to acknowledge his greatness. Plus, 3-time Super Bowl champion Julian Edelman joins the show to talk about his experience preparing for and performing at the Tom Brady Roast
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to three eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the Herd at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher on Fox Sports Radio.
Oh here we go to Thursday. Lots to discuss. As always in LA, it's the hurt wherever you may be, however you may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day. Well, well, well, the Knicks were so vulnerable last night. You got players missing.
Bigs out, Brunson, Labbilly, and I felt more than the first game in the series. I felt clearly the Knicks were better. Never never in the second half thought Indiana could win. It went back and forth, and I kind of liked Indiana, but it feels like almost now was at Indiana's best punch.
I remember I said, Pacers money line, tell great about it for much of the game, and goodness graces, can the Pacers get a stop?
Ever?
I mean this Nicks team, what a game?
Yeah?
So the playoffs unveil the posers and the frauds. The fakers, that's the Pacers. I mean, what more could Indiana have in their favor. Julius Randall, second leading scorer, has been out the entire playoffs, and then it's announced Mitchell Robinson out for the rest of the playoffs. Jalen Brunson played early, then disappeared because he was hobbled, came back in the second half. Oh g's not at one hundred percent. Everything lined up for the Pacers, and we know the NBA officials have been doing this for the entire playoffs. They're letting players be physical. It's better basketball. And the Pacers are a tempo team, a finesse team, get up and down the floor team, and they can't adjust on the fly. So it's like asking a finesse football team to go into Baltimore and face the Ravens. That's why the Ravens have like six blowouts this year at home. The Knicks are shooting fifty five percent from the floor in the playoffs because Indiana won't put a body on them. But it's more than that New York's DNA. They're a physical bunch of guys, and they're now being allowed to be even more physical. The Pacers are a finesse team and they're trying to fake it because now the league is set as a whole, we're gonna let everybody play. So you notice the teams that are flourishing in the playoffs, they're the physical teams that the NBA is allowing to be even more physical. It plays right into their style. The Celtics, the Knicks, the t Wolves, Okac but Rick Carlisle, No, no, no, no, he's blaming market size.
We deserve of a fair shot, you know, And and it's just it's just not it's just there's not there's not a consistent balance their their physicality is rewarded and ours is penalized. Just you know, time after time, small market teams deserve an equal shot. They deserve they deserve a fair shot, no matter where, no matter where they're playing.
That sounds like a fan Oklahoma City flourishing, Minnesota flourishing, Spurs, Dynasty Bucks with a title. Major markets like New York. Previous to this year, for twenty years, Atlanta, DC, Chicago, Detroit had been in the toilet forever. Both LA teams are out the Bay Area teams out. Give me a break, Philadelphia, big market can't get past the second round. This is the first time New York's been relevant forever. Go look at the last four minutes of the game. Go look at the rebounds. Knicks have nine, pacers have three. So the Indiana issue is that their construction is built for speed and tempo, and New York's construction before the season started was built for toughness. And even when the Knicks lose a tough guy Randall or a tough guy Mitchell Robinson and brunts in another tough guys hobbled, their DNA is still built for these playoffs, as is OKC and Minnesota and Boston. I mean this last night, it was served up for you. Bruns an n og are hobbling around. Isn't about market size. You're getting bullied, especially in the fourth quarter, where the Knicks have been a good clutch time team this year. But watch these fourth quarters. This is like a guy that's a finesse boxer trying to be a bully, and it's like a bully hobbled but still allowed to be a bully in the any opposer. This is not what they are. The league tweaked the rules and they can't adjust because it's not the construction of the lineup. Here's TIBs after.
We know we're not going to be able to shoot the ball like that every night. So when we're not, we got to be able to win with our defense and are rebounding our hustle and we're shorthanded to start with him. Maybe this might be a byproduct of being shorthanded all year. Like, we know that this is our way. Our way is to play really hard all the time and to play together, and if we do that, we'll have a chance.
This series is all about fight, determination, focus, and hustle and toughness. Check check check check check check check nixt winning all of those. Okay, so Yokic Nikola Yokich won his third MVP in four years. And I don't think NBA players and former NBA players are rooting for this shack last night on TV. This is not who he wanted to win.
You know, I love you, the best player in the league. I want to congratulate you, but I want you to hear from me first. I thought the SGA should have been the MVP. That's no disrespect to you, but congratulations thank you. Shame. We don't trust people here, you know, So that's fine.
I'm joking.
Here's the thing.
Jokic is the best player in the world, not having a great series, best player in the world, but aesthetically, uh, it's not a very pretty game. And aesthetics have always mattered in the NBA, starting with Doctor j On. They can sometimes fool us, but in this sport they matter. I mean, as a kid, you know, I grew up as a kid. Most kids are not sitting around mimicking and copying Jokic's game near the basket. They're doing that with ant or mj or Kobe, and that matters in the NBA. So two things we know are true. Europeans are taking over the league. Most don't want to be faced of the league, and ant and Tatum as domestic players, may be the only roadblock to that in the next decade. Ant is what a face of the league. Sort of plays like vertical trash talk in your face, let me guard the best guy. A lot of his points are absolutely it's like old school NBA eighties nineties. A lot of his points are spectacular and physical and dunking on you. And that is the history of the NBA. But even in the NFL, aesthetics play a huge role. I'll give an example. The entire time Brady was dominating the league death by a thousand cups precision detail. All I heard, it's Belichick game manager. Anybody could do this. Aaron Rodgers won a single Super Bowl. Brady had a collection. But the minute Aaron Rodgers, who's got more style and flash, won a single super Bowl, you started hearing goat talk. What he got one? The minute Mahomes won his second Super Bowl, also a player with lots of style, goat talk. I don't know Tom's got like seven. And it wasn't until Tom Brady. Remember this, he wins the Atlanta super Bowl, Right, he gets the Atlanta super Bowl, that super Bowl down there is fifth. Then he surpasses Montana and then and only then with his fifth.
We said, all right, okay, he's the goat.
Aaron Rodgers got that chatter, like substantial chatter after one, Mahomes after two. So even in the NFL, style matters, And I mean Michael Vick got on the cover of Madden didn't have a long history of sustained playoff success. So Jokic doesn't have that style. Style matters, and in the NBA, of all the leagues, it probably matters more than any other league. And I do think current players and former players don't love Jokic kind of taking over the league and the awards. I mean, he is the most valuable player in the league. Now we've seen Aunt explode. I think next year Wemby will be on a very very short list of players to do that. For a couple of years it was Jannis. Now he gets banged up more often. But I think what Shaq said wasn't just numbers, it was sort of what the league is rooting for. Because if you go back and look at when this league has been its most popular and discussed, you know, it's like Michael j Magic Bird. And as the league's got more international, it's not necessarily helped the domestic ratings. Now the league's always going to make money. But I do think Jokic winning this. I mean the MBD MVP last year felt like an anti Jokic vote as much as it did appro OLMB'D vote. I mean, m Beat's not nearly as valuable as Yolkic is a player. He doesn't have that kind of distribution talent he's you know, Jokic plays more often, he's more readily available, he elevates other players due to his brilliant passing, his ability to hit three point shots. Jokic is more valuable than m Beat. Everybody knew it, and they still gave it to m Beat. It was a better story and it felt more true to what NBA players and former players want the league to be, not what the league now is very European and Jokic being the best player j Mac last night is one of those you know, it's so they osay styles make fights, and I'm watching that game and I'm thinking, as Jalen Brunson leaves the floor in the first half, and I'm thinking, no Randall, no Robinson, no Brunson. OG's not one hundred percent, And I'm like, if you can't. Then the third quarter starts and it's all Nicks and You're like, Okay, you're trying to pretend you want to get physical, but it's just not Indiana. It's just not who you are, has nothing to do with markets.
Well, there's one guy in Indiana who was physical, TJ McConnell, and then Rick Carlisle took him off the court. For the final seven minutes and the Pacers stopped being physical with Brunson, I mean Collinson. You know, I love the NBA, I love NFL. I gotta say I was thrilled last night that the game ended early so I could.
Get to bet at a reasonable hour.
Yeah, because these double headers every night in the NBA, they're taxing NFL.
We talk about it.
It's like Thursday night football, Sunday night football, Monday night. You get to rest the other nights of the week. Yeah, NBA there's double headers. You go to bed like ten eleven.
O'clock at I know, tried being out east.
Yeah, thank goodness, I moved out.
Here, tried being out east. All right, good stuff.
Today, Julian Edelman will stop by our show that he was at that roast, among other things.
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays and Noone Eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS one and the iHeart Radio app.
You're now entering the No Bull Zone sponsored by Credible Great Rates none of the bulls. So I do appreciate Lebron James and JJ Reddick responding to me. Some would say lashing out, but I would just say, responding, uh, because I talked about a very very serious issue in America that I see now exploding. I do not like it at all. It is important people wearing their hat backwards. We got into this very serious topic yesterday on the show. Don't love the backward hat for JJ Reddicks.
It's going to open with that.
Reddick's got an interesting look, collared shirt, backwards hat. Didn't at it up arm I didn't hear a word, Lebron said. I couldn't stop staring at the hat. JJ Reddick's going for NBA head coaching jobs. He looks like a guy who's going to move my couch.
Didn't like it. I would tell JJ to his face. I'm like, dude, you're going to be an executive in this league. You're going to be a high level executive or coach tro whatever. You guys can go ahead and push back on that stuff.
I didn't like it.
My opinion, my show, our show, and I can't do I can't just I don't like that look at all. You are going to be an NBA co He's one of the most cerebral guys in the world talking basketball. Literally, he's so layered beyond he's like a great He's Christopher Nolan in Hollywood. He is directing at a different level. JJ Reddick is talking back to all at a different level. And look at this guy. I mean, listen, folks, we can't just keep lowering our standards or pretty soon hat on backwards becomes flip flops and board shorts to work. If I have to be the mean guy that starts the national dialogue on I don't know standard, so be it. We can't trust our politicians. Have you seen the three people running for president?
Yikes?
I won't be part of that. As America's honesty broker, sometimes I talk about stuff you don't want to hear.
But need to hear.
And I'm sad to say I'm getting a lot of pushback on this as Lebron and JJ Riddick lashed out at me.
Okay, I'll take it. That's fine, go ahead.
Standards are still If not me, then who raises this serious issue. Somebody's got to I've started a national dialogue. We'll go back and forth on this. God bless me and God bless America. Nick Wright understood the seriousness of it.
Even if people vehemently disagree with you on the specifics of backwards hat for forwards hat. I don't really give it that JJ Reddick was wearing a backwards hat at all. I would not hire JJ Reddick right now to be the head coach of the Los Angeles Lakers that he responded to the clip.
Now, I do not feel that way.
Steve Kerr, one of the smartest people I've ever covered and one of the smartest people in league history, went from a very very funny, sardonic, witty broadcaster an hour later he was a general manager. But JJ Reddick's got a great future. I am to turn your life around, you have to first turn your hat around. And that's all I'm going to say about that.
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays and Noone Easter not a em Pacific.
Hey, I'm Doug Gottlieb. The podcast is called All Ball.
We usually talk all basketball all the time, but it's more about the stories about what made these people love their sport and all the interesting interactions along the way. We talked to coaches, we talked to players, We tell you stories. You download it, you listen to it. I think you like it. Listen to All Ball with Doug Gottlieb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
Julian Edelman now is joining us live. I so I didn't know this before, but I just discovered this in the preamble before we went on the air. So you did the roast. Yeah, and that's a big crowd. It wasn't tiny.
How big?
Tell the audience how big it was.
It was a fifteen thousand at the Forum.
Okay, so down the road the Forum, that's where the you know, that was a showtimekers. So you did something to prepare, which takes a lot of courage.
And this is so Julian.
Edelman, this in such a patriot way. Tell the audience what you did to prepare.
Well, I found out I was doing the show probably two and a half weeks before the show, and you know, all the athletes were pretty nervous, just because you're gonna get on stage, you're gonna talk with in front of a whole lot of people, and you're also talking with professionals or going against professionals. These guys do this for a living in the comics. So I was getting super nervous. Jeff Ross was we were doing our like our brainstorm meetings where his team was there, my team was together. We'd get on a zoom link and we'd go over jokes. We go, we went over what we wanted to hit. They had some things for us, and you know, it was getting overwhelming. So Jeff could kind of feel that for me, and he goes, Hey, I'm gonna do the Comedy Store next Thursday. Why don't you come on and I'll have you on the back set, a back part of my set. And I said, awesome, let's do it. So the fact that you said awesome, I treated it like a game. I needed walk through reps. I needed a preseason game, and then I wanted to go hit the game, you know what I mean. So the walkthrough reps was with my team where I would perform in front of them and I would do our jokes in front of them, like we were in full roast mode for two weeks. Everyone we all hated each other by the end of it because everyone's making a joke about each other just to kind of get the jokes going. And it was very nerve wracking going to the Comedy Store on a Thursday, because I did about twelve minutes there.
Whoa and that's a lot of material.
It was because you wanted to go fat so you could see reactions. And it was good to get that rep because you know some part of your jokes. When you're setting a joke up, people start laughing or start or start talking about it, or you get paused up. So it was good to feel that so then you could deliver the end of the joke. So, you know, I go there and it was nerve wracking because it's very intimate at the Comedy Store. Yeah, I mean there's like six five four hundred people. Three hundred people were in one of the bigger rooms and everyone's right up on you. Thankfully, we had a group of like twenty five year old frat bros that knew everything about sports. So my material was flying. I was good. I was good, But it was a good rep to have, and after that, going into the roast, you know, I felt a lot more confident for the show, just because I could feel the beats of when I was going up there, Like I one of the jokes, you're you're performing something and I said you barrels chested sob for Bill and people started laughing. But that was the first part of my joke, So then I knew going into the roast that people are probably gonna laugh at that. I got to take a beat, then I get back to my joke and then deliver. So it was it was. It was a fun experience, nerve wracking.
Let me tell you something.
When you did twelve minutes, did you have a paper next to you?
I had cards, So yeah, you did. I had. I had all my cards on jokes. And by the end, I mean, I knew my jokes, but I was shaking at the comedy store. I mean, you know, I'm not a comic by any means.
I think comics probably from time to time get nervous on sets.
Yeah, and when I got to the roast the day before, you know, it was kind of like get into a game early. You get to see where the shot, you know, the playclock is. You can get to see the field, and you saw where everyone was sitting, so you could dictate your jokes to the certain people saw mister Kraft, I saw it s Guerrero, so I could see where they were going to be in the crowd, so I could go to them. And it was, Uh. I treated it like a football game.
So when you were in uh, you know the cocktail room or the the the green room. They call it our industry before you go out. We have it here we called the Avocado room. It's California, of course. In the green room when you guys are all there before you go out intents.
Now you have a lot of legends. Yeah, in one room, and all the athletes were with the athletes, you know, and so you could see guys were nervous, but they didn't want to show their nervousness. So guys would, you know, go to the bathroom kind of run their lines by themselves. No one wanted to do it because you didn't want to have your material in front of other people. But it was definitely guys were definitely nervous. But it was honestly very fun to catch up with a lot of guys, I mean our green room, we had Randy Gronk, Bill, me Bledsoe, and we were just like, it was so fun to hear the old war stories. Bill opened up, he was telling we were talking about rookie skits and stuff because we were in skit mode with the whole roast, and it was a fun was a fun experience.
How much of it did Tom know was coming or did he go there and just sit and listen. I mean he had material too, but I mean I.
Kept reiterating to the to the writers, and I'm like, is everything on limits here? Like are we good? Like we could talk this, we could talk chat they go, he said, everything's good, oh boy. And I was still a little nerve nervous going in with my set with certain things, just because family stuff. But then once the first five minutes of the roast happened and and Kevin Hart dropped his opening lines, I was like, Oh, we're good, We're good. He cleared the air, which that's a good teammate. He did that to probably make us feel comfortable with what we were going to say. And you could really see the professionals, the Kevin Hart's, the Jeff Rosses, the Nicky Glazers, all of them, all the comics. You could see why they were professionals because of with Kevin, like you, I was watching teleprompter the whole time. I wanted to see how people were going to deliver off teleprompters because there are teleprompters everywhere, and you could see him and with Kevin, he could pull something from what someone just said and it would be a completely different term or whatever than what the teleprompter said, but he would be able to get back into the prompter to keep the show going. Like that's when you see professionals at work, along with Jeff, along with Nikki. I mean, all these these comics, that's why they're pros. They know how to entertain. They knew how to pull things, bring things and listen and then deliver.
I thought Albert Breer said this that the roast was a Patriots therapy session to get stuff out that you probably kind of wanted to get out, but in a funny way, so it wasn't as hurtful.
Yeah, fully, I mean I looked right at Bill when I said my joke to him.
And he loved it. That's the thing. He laughed hard as that.
You know what.
I didn't get a lot of TV time on that dynasty, so he probably laughed at my job.
He's like, you, no, but your joke was.
And I was talking to somebody who said Bill used to say that all the time, all the basically week.
I can find a guy at Foxborough High that can do this.
Yeah, well, Foxborough High is the only job opportunity you had, Coach and I love saying it now, but it was all of love and he was I thought he was a great sport.
I thought Bill, you know what. I thought Bill won the night.
He did a really good job.
Because Bill came in fair not Bill came in viewed by the league as a little combative. Hey, I'm gonna do things my way. And I watched that and I thought, if I was an owner a GM, I'm like, Okay, that's the Bill i've heard about, the happy, the fun Bill. He's a serious man. But I thought after it, I'm like, okay, and he's been good on McAfee, and I'm like, Okay, this is the Bill that I think is totally hirable. He got you know, listen, I understand coaching, but Bill's Bill's rap for about two years. At the end, there was a clunky.
Yeah, time was ending over there. And you know that's anytime you're in any area or with anyone or any opportunity, any job for a long time, things get stale. I thought it was a great night for him. I thought it meant probably a lot for Brady to see him there. You know, the the tension with the shot with him and mister Krag, great TV.
But it's not that one. Here's the thing, Julian, in my opinion, that one's never going to be close. But I do think Tom and Bill and this was a real ice breaker. I think they really do know how much they meant for each other.
They love each other, and I've always said that it just sometimes it takes time, after a long time being together to realize that. And uh, you know, I could specifically remember when TV when to Tampa Bay and he would say things like, you know, everything that's normal that we're used to doing is not normal. So all the stuff he used to complain about he wanted, isn't that interesting, you know what I mean? And you know that they definitely love each other. I feel, I mean, they could be I could be completely wrong, but you know, we needed both of them.
Yeah.
I think what Bill provided for Tom was he never had to win, mostly by shootouts, which even if you're Mahomes is hard. And I think what Tom provided was a fairly eagoless quarterback. There's not a lot of superstar athletes in America that don't bring some crap to the table, and Tom really didn't. And so in the end, what they provided to each other was very rare. Tom for fifteen years, eighteen years never had a bad old line or a crappy defense. That just doesn't happen in pro football. You always have you know, you lose a free agent, you lose a pass. Sure, and I think they both gaves. I think both now look back at it and think in the area. It's funny that you say the Tampa thing. It's just like a relationship. You leave it, the grass is greener, and you're like, yeah, that ain't great. Kind of miss that.
Yeah, you know it's uh.
You didn't have that because you were a Patriot.
I never had that.
But you've talked to guys.
I've talked to guys, and when guys leave, you know, they they realize why it was a tough environment and why we won when when they left, you know, And it's hard to say that when with with Brady leaving and going win in a super Bowl, but uh, you know, I always explain it like this. Tom always had a chip and we all knew Tom played better when he was pissed off. You said that, yeah, and what did Bill like to do this off Tom? And what did Tom do get pissed off and play great football? Yeah, Like, I don't know if it's super JEEDI mind tricks that Bill played, because sometimes it was a lot, But I think that's what he thought he had to do to motivate Tom to get the best out of him. You know.
The other thing is you're obviously still close with guys, and now you're the father and your life's changed and there's different things of importance. But I don't know why I always think about this. Whenever a football team is good, I always think winning on the road is cooler because to get on a plane and fly home for four hours after a win on the road against a good team, I'm like, that is guy time. That is even better at locker room you go in media, is there you shower. That's the part of your life that where I look as a sportscaster, not the money. It's like to be on those planes with Brady and Gronk and road wins.
Are those special to you.
My favorite win of my career that wasn't Super Bowl was the eighteen AFC Championship when we went to Kansas City, like we didn't we had the stigma that we couldn't win on the road. We've been hearing it for years. We lost to Denver twice in the AFC Championship in Denver. To go there play in a hostile environment against a young, sexy, new generation team, we were kind of that old team that was, you know, the old generation holding on and to go out there and compete and everyone perform and be a part of the contribution to going out there when there's nothing like going home on that plane with the guys. Like you said, when you're at home, you got twenty minutes and guys are out of there. You gotta go get your family, You got the media there. When you have a three hour flight, you're in there. Guys are bumping music, guys are having fun. There could be some cocktails on there that's aren't supposed to be on there, but it's literally that's the most That's the number one thing you miss when when you leave the game is that camaraderie of that away trip flight back home. So I was right, you were right.
That's what I think about Mark Sanchez when they beat the Chargers. It was a foggy day in San Diego. Remember that Sanchez went west, foggy and a good Charger team, and I'm like, man, you've got five and a half hours flying back. He's like, you have no idea that is just great living. You cannot duplicate that.
You can't. You can't.
Julian Edelman, by the way, he has a podcast, Games with Names. It's really good. They have a new episode every Tuesday. One of my favorite people is on this week, Drew Bledsoe. I love Drew, and I always think Drew's had an interesting life. He was replaced by the greatest player ever, and it minimizes how great Drew was who had By the way, I thought, maybe the funniest joke in the whole thing, Tom there's two things I have. I was a number one pick and I'm celebrating my twenty eighth wedding anniversary.
Thought that was a great line.
But Drew kind of gets beat up, not on purpose, but because of Tom's greatness. And I love that you guys all rally around him. I think he's a special guy.
Well, Drew's a pivotal part of one of those pillars that help build this whole thing early on in the Patriot Dynasty. He's always been a great sport about it. And that's got to be a very tough situation because he's a baller. I mean we threw the ball on Sunday night when we did that podcast. That guy can still sling it, like you could see why he was He looks the partner number one draft pick he picks up and Tom used to say it all the time. He could pick up any ball fresh out the box and he could just sling it, big hands. Just I mean, he's a great sport. He was a humble guy about that whole situation. If you've watched and heard the story of how he handled a young twenty five year old or twenty three year old kid coming in and taking his job after getting a huge contract, like he was still a team guy. And that's the Patriot way, you know, not doing what's best for you, but doing what's best for the team. That was on the wall when we walked in every day, mental toughness, doing what's best for the team when it may not be the best for you. And Drew's that he's in there.
Yeah, great seeing man, Great to see you too.
It is Drew Blatsoe out now Games with Names really a smartly constructed and delivered podcast. I love whenever I see your name on the list.
I'm in a good mood, buddy, than beg you
