Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to noone Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to noone Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher on Fox Sports Radio.

This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher on Fox Sports Radio.

Oh, it is a Big Wednesday, a Great Wednesday, a special show live in Los Angeles. It's The Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day. Jmac. There's been one guest I've been trying to get for the last couple of years, Adam Silver, NBA Commissioner. You and I love the NBA. We start really watching it, really watching it late January February, and it becomes a big topic on our show. There's this sense that there's problems with the legal though they just seccured secured seventy five billion dollars in new rights. Fine, but I've been trying for two years to get Adam Silver on the show. So the NBA said, all right, we'll give you, Adam Silver, and so I'm very excited. One hour from now, the NBA commissioner comes on and there's a lot of you know, it's funny about sports in America right now. Sports is great in America. I mean Major League Baseball. I've never seen a player like Otani. He's our babe, Ruth and the NBA, these international players, seven foot four guys bringing the ball up the floor are incredible. But we generally view like NFL is all good and everybody else is struggling, and that's not true. Women's basketball, by the way, has emerged in this country as a power player now. So I'm so excited to talk to him about a variety of subjects. Adam Silver is gonna stop buying one hour and then I want to start with this numbers. I'm not a math guy, but numbers. So Deon Sanders to the Cowboys has been discussed. The Athletic is reporting that Jerry's gone in a bit of a solo mission and he's making calls himself to Deon Sanders. Jerry's just like, yeah, I'm getting a DNA now. He has an eight million dollar buyout. As respected reporter Sharene Williams says Dion's going an eight million dollar buyout in Belichick A ten. Jerry doesn't do buyouts, duly noted that. Clarence Hill, but on this show, Clarence Hill Junior, respected as well, says he doesn't do buyouts and he doesn't mind the chatter. Okay, so you guys are talking numbers. I'm gonna give both of these fine reporters other numbers. Jerry's eighty two. When you get older, everything changes. You think about your mortality once. The first number your age is six or seven. Secondly, the Cowboys were seven to ten. And here's a third number. You got to pay dak a b quarterback, one hundred and twenty nine million guaranteed going forward. Those are the numbers I see, not eight million. And I think rich guys don't like dead coaching money. I don't think they like buyouts. But I think when you get older, you see the world differently. You think about your legacy and how you're gonna leave it for others. Does he want to leave his kids a mess? And I think is in much worse shape than people think. I really do. I think they're in big trouble just in the NFC, Detroit, Philadelphia, Green Bay. In the Rams not only have better rosters now, significantly better, significantly better, they have better from offices they are drafting. I mean, the Rams do not miss on defensive draft picks. Philadelphia didn't miss on draft picks at all. So those teams are better now. And I'm not even talking Baltimore, Kansas City and the Bills Chiefs. I'm not talking the big three in the AFC. I'm not talking league wide. I'm not talking Chiefs, Mahomes, Reid. I'm not talking Josh Allen, the great Baltimore Raven team. I forget those out. In fact, I won't even use the big dogs in the NFC. Just in your own division, I see major obstacles. Jaden Daniels maybe as good or better than Andrew Lucket's a rookie. This kid looks like Mahomes plus Lamar Jackson. This is year one. Look at it's passer rating the fourth quarter. This is not a play roster. He got him into the playoffs and just won a road game. Jayden Daniels, Is this our next Mahomes? And then there's Philadelphia's roster, which has so many good young players they're going nowhere for five years. So and this is what worries me, lack of self awareness. The Patriots new with Gerrod Mayo. They made a mistake. It happens. Great owners make mistakes. They pivoted one year. Arizona, which doesn't have a great owner, Josh Rose and Steve Wilkes, they pivoted one year. I think I think Dallas is in danger of becoming a Jurassic Park. We'll call it jair Jaassic Park where an old guy meets you at the gate and shows you the facilities, and you're really impressed with the tour, and then all of a sudden, you start seeing things the old guy doesn't like. What happens if the fence breaks and the t Rex gets out, well, let me tell you what, the Dallas Cowboys the fence broke, give him metal. You have one weapon. You have a quarterback that's paid at a Mahomes level, and he's about Baker Mayfield and you've whiffed on your last two first round picks appear to be whiffs. I think Dallas is in big trouble. And even organizations that we don't look at as elite, like Arizona's like this isn't working. We're pivoting. So listen, the Patriots just did that. I think the Patriots make the playoffs next year, just like I called Washington making the playoffs this year. Washington new clean house. Let's change everything new. England's like we made a mistake. Let's clean house. Dallas is clinging to family, Dallas is clinging to the past. Dallas thinks they're close, Dallas thinks they're a player away. So to me, this is a Jurassic Park, and the fence is broken, the t rex is running wild. It's only going to get worse. I'm not even sure if I'd resign Micah. I think I'd move in for a first round pick in a week draft. Michael Irvin yesterday did say, however, I don't want to hear that it's not a coveted job. Michael Irvin defended Jerry and said it is a covenant job.

Oh, it is a Big Wednesday, a Great Wednesday, a special show live in Los Angeles. It's The Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day. Jmac. There's been one guest I've been trying to get for the last couple of years, Adam Silver, NBA Commissioner. You and I love the NBA. We start really watching it, really watching it late January February, and it becomes a big topic on our show. There's this sense that there's problems with the legal though they just seccured secured seventy five billion dollars in new rights. Fine, but I've been trying for two years to get Adam Silver on the show. So the NBA said, all right, we'll give you, Adam Silver, and so I'm very excited. One hour from now, the NBA commissioner comes on and there's a lot of you know, it's funny about sports in America right now. Sports is great in America. I mean Major League Baseball. I've never seen a player like Otani. He's our babe, Ruth and the NBA, these international players, seven foot four guys bringing the ball up the floor are incredible. But we generally view like NFL is all good and everybody else is struggling, and that's not true. Women's basketball, by the way, has emerged in this country as a power player now. So I'm so excited to talk to him about a variety of subjects. Adam Silver is gonna stop buying one hour and then I want to start with this numbers. I'm not a math guy, but numbers. So Deon Sanders to the Cowboys has been discussed. The Athletic is reporting that Jerry's gone in a bit of a solo mission and he's making calls himself to Deon Sanders. Jerry's just like, yeah, I'm getting a DNA now. He has an eight million dollar buyout. As respected reporter Sharene Williams says Dion's going an eight million dollar buyout in Belichick A ten. Jerry doesn't do buyouts, duly noted that. Clarence Hill, but on this show, Clarence Hill Junior, respected as well, says he doesn't do buyouts and he doesn't mind the chatter. Okay, so you guys are talking numbers. I'm gonna give both of these fine reporters other numbers. Jerry's eighty two. When you get older, everything changes. You think about your mortality once. The first number your age is six or seven. Secondly, the Cowboys were seven to ten. And here's a third number. You got to pay dak a b quarterback, one hundred and twenty nine million guaranteed going forward. Those are the numbers I see, not eight million. And I think rich guys don't like dead coaching money. I don't think they like buyouts. But I think when you get older, you see the world differently. You think about your legacy and how you're gonna leave it for others. Does he want to leave his kids a mess? And I think is in much worse shape than people think. I really do. I think they're in big trouble just in the NFC, Detroit, Philadelphia, Green Bay. In the Rams not only have better rosters now, significantly better, significantly better, they have better from offices they are drafting. I mean, the Rams do not miss on defensive draft picks. Philadelphia didn't miss on draft picks at all. So those teams are better now. And I'm not even talking Baltimore, Kansas City and the Bills Chiefs. I'm not talking the big three in the AFC. I'm not talking league wide. I'm not talking Chiefs, Mahomes, Reid. I'm not talking Josh Allen, the great Baltimore Raven team. I forget those out. In fact, I won't even use the big dogs in the NFC. Just in your own division, I see major obstacles. Jaden Daniels maybe as good or better than Andrew Lucket's a rookie. This kid looks like Mahomes plus Lamar Jackson. This is year one. Look at it's passer rating the fourth quarter. This is not a play roster. He got him into the playoffs and just won a road game. Jayden Daniels, Is this our next Mahomes? And then there's Philadelphia's roster, which has so many good young players they're going nowhere for five years. So and this is what worries me, lack of self awareness. The Patriots new with Gerrod Mayo. They made a mistake. It happens. Great owners make mistakes. They pivoted one year. Arizona, which doesn't have a great owner, Josh Rose and Steve Wilkes, they pivoted one year. I think I think Dallas is in danger of becoming a Jurassic Park. We'll call it jair Jaassic Park where an old guy meets you at the gate and shows you the facilities, and you're really impressed with the tour, and then all of a sudden, you start seeing things the old guy doesn't like. What happens if the fence breaks and the t Rex gets out, well, let me tell you what, the Dallas Cowboys the fence broke, give him metal. You have one weapon. You have a quarterback that's paid at a Mahomes level, and he's about Baker Mayfield and you've whiffed on your last two first round picks appear to be whiffs. I think Dallas is in big trouble. And even organizations that we don't look at as elite, like Arizona's like this isn't working. We're pivoting. So listen, the Patriots just did that. I think the Patriots make the playoffs next year, just like I called Washington making the playoffs this year. Washington new clean house. Let's change everything new. England's like we made a mistake. Let's clean house. Dallas is clinging to family, Dallas is clinging to the past. Dallas thinks they're close, Dallas thinks they're a player away. So to me, this is a Jurassic Park, and the fence is broken, the t rex is running wild. It's only going to get worse. I'm not even sure if I'd resign Micah. I think I'd move in for a first round pick in a week draft. Michael Irvin yesterday did say, however, I don't want to hear that it's not a coveted job. Michael Irvin defended Jerry and said it is a covenant job.

They're only thirty two jobs in the National Football League. Thirty to each one of those jobs going to pay you book nor to somewhere six seven million dollars a year. That coach is all over the world that probably wants to come to coach if they knew how to coach in the National Football League. This is a coveny job. All thirty two of them are coveted jobs in this country and mostly probably in this world. So that right there is not right to even say that. Now the Cowboys is as covenant as any other team in the National Football League.

They're only thirty two jobs in the National Football League. Thirty to each one of those jobs going to pay you book nor to somewhere six seven million dollars a year. That coach is all over the world that probably wants to come to coach if they knew how to coach in the National Football League. This is a coveny job. All thirty two of them are coveted jobs in this country and mostly probably in this world. So that right there is not right to even say that. Now the Cowboys is as covenant as any other team in the National Football League.

So now I don't believe that. I think it starts with ownership. And the number I see is eighty two years old, seven and ten and one hundred and twenty nine million to DAK and an organization that increasingly last couple of years can't get their first round picks right. The fence is broken. So what I'm about to say, you'll roll your eyes at and that's hurtful. But I've been saying this that you've got to be able to see the problems before they get really bad, like Dallas. So Mike Tomlin, there was a story out this morning that he's not actually sure what they're going to do at quarterback, which I see as progress. Russell Wilson has said I want to be back, and Mike Tomlin is at least acknowledging it's not all right here.

So now I don't believe that. I think it starts with ownership. And the number I see is eighty two years old, seven and ten and one hundred and twenty nine million to DAK and an organization that increasingly last couple of years can't get their first round picks right. The fence is broken. So what I'm about to say, you'll roll your eyes at and that's hurtful. But I've been saying this that you've got to be able to see the problems before they get really bad, like Dallas. So Mike Tomlin, there was a story out this morning that he's not actually sure what they're going to do at quarterback, which I see as progress. Russell Wilson has said I want to be back, and Mike Tomlin is at least acknowledging it's not all right here.

Stuck is kind of a helpless feeling, and I don't know that I feel helpless. Definitely doesn't feel in the mood for optimism or the selling of optimism. I don't know that that's appropriate. You know, it's disappointing not to be working. And so that's where we are.

Stuck is kind of a helpless feeling, and I don't know that I feel helpless. Definitely doesn't feel in the mood for optimism or the selling of optimism. I don't know that that's appropriate. You know, it's disappointing not to be working. And so that's where we are.

All right.

All right.

So you may not think this is happening, but just hear me out for a couple minutes. Are the Steelers becoming the New York Giants? The Steelers would look at now and go a mess. Legendary quarterback gets you to a couple of Super Bowls. Elion big Ben family run for generations, historic franchise, prides itself in stability, and then the quarterback retires and it gets ugly really quick. Now, the Giants winning got ugly really quick, and the Steelers still win more, but their offense is pitiful. Now, to the Steelers credit, they don't run through coaches. But to the Giants credit, they've won a playoff game in the last eight years, and so post Big Ben, as the NFL made a massive pivot to offense over the last seven to eight years. They can't get the quarterback right, they can't get the running game right, they can't get the O line right, and they struggle to get the OC right. The one shining lot light is George Pickens, the wide receiver. But a story came out yesterday that he literally showed up late to a game on Christmas against the Chiefs, and he is regularly late to games. That's your star. No, that's just called a talented kid. They come and go in this league. That's just a talented kid. That's not a leader. So since twenty nineteen, you don't think you're the Giants. But since twenty nineteen, in an offensive league where you can't get quarterback, running back O line right, the Steelers. And remember, their defense gets them in good field position, their defense takes the ball away, their defense gets sacks, making it easier on the offense. In Pittsburgh, they have scored fewer touchdowns in the last five years than the Jags, Raiders, Bears, and Browns. The good news, though, you're a couple ahead of the Giants, right you Steeler fan looks at the Giants and goes pitiful. But the Eagle and the Rams and the Ravens and the Chiefs and the top offenses look at Pittsburgh's offense, which now is what Hoyst trophies, and they see pitiful. That's what they see. I mean, we all look at Pittsburgh's offense and we all just kind of got it's here are the eight teams without a playoff win, eight teams lent a playoff win in the last eight seasons. Steelers, Dolphins, Raiders, Panthers, Cardinals, Broncos, Bears, Jets. You know who's not on that list, The New York Giants, who you look down at. I do think Tomlin's saying, there's quotes here. I don't know. If I don't know, if we have the quoterback in the room, that is progress. But you know, right now, I think it's interesting when franchises that are proud like Dallas and Pittsburgh, look at the Jags and the pan and the Jets and the Giants, you do get you are much closer to that than the Bills, the Ravens, the Chiefs, the Eagles, the Lions, and the Rams. Adam Silver in forty five minutes joining us today, it is getting very interesting. You know, you can always tell j Mack before we brought you on here, I took you out to dinner. Well, Mike McCarty, when you get dinner, when you share a glass of veno and you chop it up with people for dinner. That usually means something special is happening. Mike McCarthy is having dinner reportedly tonight in Chicago.

So you may not think this is happening, but just hear me out for a couple minutes. Are the Steelers becoming the New York Giants? The Steelers would look at now and go a mess. Legendary quarterback gets you to a couple of Super Bowls. Elion big Ben family run for generations, historic franchise, prides itself in stability, and then the quarterback retires and it gets ugly really quick. Now, the Giants winning got ugly really quick, and the Steelers still win more, but their offense is pitiful. Now, to the Steelers credit, they don't run through coaches. But to the Giants credit, they've won a playoff game in the last eight years, and so post Big Ben, as the NFL made a massive pivot to offense over the last seven to eight years. They can't get the quarterback right, they can't get the running game right, they can't get the O line right, and they struggle to get the OC right. The one shining lot light is George Pickens, the wide receiver. But a story came out yesterday that he literally showed up late to a game on Christmas against the Chiefs, and he is regularly late to games. That's your star. No, that's just called a talented kid. They come and go in this league. That's just a talented kid. That's not a leader. So since twenty nineteen, you don't think you're the Giants. But since twenty nineteen, in an offensive league where you can't get quarterback, running back O line right, the Steelers. And remember, their defense gets them in good field position, their defense takes the ball away, their defense gets sacks, making it easier on the offense. In Pittsburgh, they have scored fewer touchdowns in the last five years than the Jags, Raiders, Bears, and Browns. The good news, though, you're a couple ahead of the Giants, right you Steeler fan looks at the Giants and goes pitiful. But the Eagle and the Rams and the Ravens and the Chiefs and the top offenses look at Pittsburgh's offense, which now is what Hoyst trophies, and they see pitiful. That's what they see. I mean, we all look at Pittsburgh's offense and we all just kind of got it's here are the eight teams without a playoff win, eight teams lent a playoff win in the last eight seasons. Steelers, Dolphins, Raiders, Panthers, Cardinals, Broncos, Bears, Jets. You know who's not on that list, The New York Giants, who you look down at. I do think Tomlin's saying, there's quotes here. I don't know. If I don't know, if we have the quoterback in the room, that is progress. But you know, right now, I think it's interesting when franchises that are proud like Dallas and Pittsburgh, look at the Jags and the pan and the Jets and the Giants, you do get you are much closer to that than the Bills, the Ravens, the Chiefs, the Eagles, the Lions, and the Rams. Adam Silver in forty five minutes joining us today, it is getting very interesting. You know, you can always tell j Mack before we brought you on here, I took you out to dinner. Well, Mike McCarty, when you get dinner, when you share a glass of veno and you chop it up with people for dinner. That usually means something special is happening. Mike McCarthy is having dinner reportedly tonight in Chicago.

Wait, was this before I got to Fox way back two days?

Wait, was this before I got to Fox way back two days?

I don't remember much of your life, but I know the dinner really was your wife and my wife there, Yeah, I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, that was like twenty fifteen. Yeahah, so Mike McCarthy, it's dinner, steaks and a glass of wine tonight in Chicago.

I don't remember much of your life, but I know the dinner really was your wife and my wife there, Yeah, I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, that was like twenty fifteen. Yeahah, so Mike McCarthy, it's dinner, steaks and a glass of wine tonight in Chicago.

Fiels kind of standard. I do have a quick question this George Piket's showing up late for a game.

Fiels kind of standard. I do have a quick question this George Piket's showing up late for a game.

It's crazy. I was reading about it.

It's crazy. I was reading about it.

So what happens if I show up, like I don't know, twenty five minutes after the show starts.

So what happens if I show up, like I don't know, twenty five minutes after the show starts.

Well, first of all, could be traffic. It's la certainly, and it was Christmas, so you do give a guy a bit of a pass. But I think the bigger issue with Pickens is late to practice, late to games, on field disruptions. I think it's the classic drip, drip drip. Now the faucets broke, so it's not just the moment people make mistakes. They get in recks. They this is not a dog ate my homework thing yet, but it does when it starts to compound with George Pickens and he is right now the centerpiece of the offense. I mean again, Jalen Hurts may not be the centerpiece of Phillies offense, but he is reliable, he's a leader, he shows up. So I mean, the difference in this league often is not just talent. New England's dynasty was built around leadership and Kansas City's dynasty. They don't have the best team. Philadelphia's got better players, Detroit's got It's built around dependable, sustainable leadership.

Well, first of all, could be traffic. It's la certainly, and it was Christmas, so you do give a guy a bit of a pass. But I think the bigger issue with Pickens is late to practice, late to games, on field disruptions. I think it's the classic drip, drip drip. Now the faucets broke, so it's not just the moment people make mistakes. They get in recks. They this is not a dog ate my homework thing yet, but it does when it starts to compound with George Pickens and he is right now the centerpiece of the offense. I mean again, Jalen Hurts may not be the centerpiece of Phillies offense, but he is reliable, he's a leader, he shows up. So I mean, the difference in this league often is not just talent. New England's dynasty was built around leadership and Kansas City's dynasty. They don't have the best team. Philadelphia's got better players, Detroit's got It's built around dependable, sustainable leadership.

So why then are we hearing after the Steelers get eliminated Pickens showing up late on Christmas Mike Tomlin. There were some reports that Mike Tomlin didn't intervene when Arthur Smith.

So why then are we hearing after the Steelers get eliminated Pickens showing up late on Christmas Mike Tomlin. There were some reports that Mike Tomlin didn't intervene when Arthur Smith.

And Russell Wells.

And Russell Wells.

So like all of a sudden, there's this negative flow of stories about Tomlin's leadership. Are they is somebody trying to shove him out of Pat Well?

So like all of a sudden, there's this negative flow of stories about Tomlin's leadership. Are they is somebody trying to shove him out of Pat Well?

I would say stories get out when somebody wants them out. So why did the Pickens story get out? That could be Tomlin's side saying hey, I'm getting buried here. This is what I had to deal with.

I would say stories get out when somebody wants them out. So why did the Pickens story get out? That could be Tomlin's side saying hey, I'm getting buried here. This is what I had to deal with.

Or is it the other side, Hey, this guy's enabling Pickens. They announced the inactiveties.

Or is it the other side, Hey, this guy's enabling Pickens. They announced the inactiveties.

Well do you really think the Pickens party would want this out?

Well do you really think the Pickens party would want this out?

Well, I think somebody's trying to say, hey, Tomlin doesn't have control. He didn't have it over Deontay Johnson, Antonio Brown. This is a pattern. And also Arthur Smith and Russell Wilson weren't getting along. That now comes out that wasn't out there during the season. I'm like, I just wonder if there's some kind of internal issue with Mike.

Well, I think somebody's trying to say, hey, Tomlin doesn't have control. He didn't have it over Deontay Johnson, Antonio Brown. This is a pattern. And also Arthur Smith and Russell Wilson weren't getting along. That now comes out that wasn't out there during the season. I'm like, I just wonder if there's some kind of internal issue with Mike.

Tomlin's over it. Arthur Smith didn't get along with the Ross, Peyton didn't get along with the Ross. Pete Carroll at the end was tired to Ross. It's it's a Ross's I mean that's seriously. If you go to three different jobs and you don't get along with people, it's not the people, it's you, right, Like they always say, in a divorce, the one thing that is a constant in a divorce is you, Like you're just bringing you to a new relationship. That's why seventy percent of second marriages and then divorce because you took you. You thought you were getting rid of the problem. You are the problem.

Tomlin's over it. Arthur Smith didn't get along with the Ross, Peyton didn't get along with the Ross. Pete Carroll at the end was tired to Ross. It's it's a Ross's I mean that's seriously. If you go to three different jobs and you don't get along with people, it's not the people, it's you, right, Like they always say, in a divorce, the one thing that is a constant in a divorce is you, Like you're just bringing you to a new relationship. That's why seventy percent of second marriages and then divorce because you took you. You thought you were getting rid of the problem. You are the problem.

Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays and neonon eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.

Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays and neonon eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.

So they are rolling out the red carpet for Mike McCarthy and the Bears. I think Mike McCarthy smartly read the tea leaves bailed on Dallas, which I think is devastating potentially for the Cowboys because they can't even now interview the top two coordinator candidates, Aaron Glenn and Ben Johnson from Detroit. So they're rolling out the red carpet. Just want you to consider this. The Commanders were broken, the Broncos were broken, The Chargers were broken. What did they all do? And by the way, the Patriots were broken, They all went and hired experienced head coaches. Three of them have made the Super Bowl three or four. I know Mike McCarthy's ceiling is not Andy Reid, it's not Sean McVeigh. I get that, But his floor in eighteen years, twelve times is the playoffs. The Bears currently are not a high ceiling team. Let's just say this and this is what his resume proves that Mike McCarthy very quickly stabilizes you and makes you a winning team. I'm not talking thirteen twelve, eleven wins. You become a winning team nine to eight, ten and seven, and he stabilizes you. And then in four years you're like, yeah, but we only won one playoff game. We've hit a ceiling. All right, that's the worst case scenario. And then you, as Caleb Williams signs his second contract and his first massive contract, you go get the whiz Kid. Then you need stability. I would hire Sully before I go Top Gun Maverick here, Chicago, Kate, you are bat. You can't even line up properly. I saw this morning you were third in the league in false starts and fifth in most illegal formations. You just can't. You can't even land the plane. Forget about doing circles and top Gun upstairs. Gotta land the plane. So my take is nine to eight and ten and seven is a great place for Caleb Williams to be going forward. You've been over five hundred one time in twelve years. Instead of dumping your net worth into bitcoin, how about you just open a savings account first and get the basics down, like not illegal formation four times a game. Yeah, I mean you're viewing yourself as hey, we're stable. No, no, no, you're not. This isn't a little turbulence. You're crashing a year after year after year, and so again twelve times in eighteen years, three different quarterbacks, one an old legend, won an ascending legend, and one paid like a legend, and you keep getting all of them to the playoffs. Eighteen years, twelve playoffs. I'm just asking you, Bears, to upgrade from life support to stable condition. Let's not worry about having perfect abs yet or running a four fifty mile. Let's just get the stable condition and a better diet. Mike McCarthy is stability and winning and playoffs and even in four years, if you're like, yeah, I mean yeah, we win nine and ten games, ye all take that. That's landing the plane. Here's Caleb Williams and I love this. He was on a podcast. Here's Caleb Williams on what he's looking for for the coach.

So they are rolling out the red carpet for Mike McCarthy and the Bears. I think Mike McCarthy smartly read the tea leaves bailed on Dallas, which I think is devastating potentially for the Cowboys because they can't even now interview the top two coordinator candidates, Aaron Glenn and Ben Johnson from Detroit. So they're rolling out the red carpet. Just want you to consider this. The Commanders were broken, the Broncos were broken, The Chargers were broken. What did they all do? And by the way, the Patriots were broken, They all went and hired experienced head coaches. Three of them have made the Super Bowl three or four. I know Mike McCarthy's ceiling is not Andy Reid, it's not Sean McVeigh. I get that, But his floor in eighteen years, twelve times is the playoffs. The Bears currently are not a high ceiling team. Let's just say this and this is what his resume proves that Mike McCarthy very quickly stabilizes you and makes you a winning team. I'm not talking thirteen twelve, eleven wins. You become a winning team nine to eight, ten and seven, and he stabilizes you. And then in four years you're like, yeah, but we only won one playoff game. We've hit a ceiling. All right, that's the worst case scenario. And then you, as Caleb Williams signs his second contract and his first massive contract, you go get the whiz Kid. Then you need stability. I would hire Sully before I go Top Gun Maverick here, Chicago, Kate, you are bat. You can't even line up properly. I saw this morning you were third in the league in false starts and fifth in most illegal formations. You just can't. You can't even land the plane. Forget about doing circles and top Gun upstairs. Gotta land the plane. So my take is nine to eight and ten and seven is a great place for Caleb Williams to be going forward. You've been over five hundred one time in twelve years. Instead of dumping your net worth into bitcoin, how about you just open a savings account first and get the basics down, like not illegal formation four times a game. Yeah, I mean you're viewing yourself as hey, we're stable. No, no, no, you're not. This isn't a little turbulence. You're crashing a year after year after year, and so again twelve times in eighteen years, three different quarterbacks, one an old legend, won an ascending legend, and one paid like a legend, and you keep getting all of them to the playoffs. Eighteen years, twelve playoffs. I'm just asking you, Bears, to upgrade from life support to stable condition. Let's not worry about having perfect abs yet or running a four fifty mile. Let's just get the stable condition and a better diet. Mike McCarthy is stability and winning and playoffs and even in four years, if you're like, yeah, I mean yeah, we win nine and ten games, ye all take that. That's landing the plane. Here's Caleb Williams and I love this. He was on a podcast. Here's Caleb Williams on what he's looking for for the coach.

What are some qualities that you'd want here in your next head coach?

What are some qualities that you'd want here in your next head coach?

Strong minded, a leader of men, selfishly.

Strong minded, a leader of men, selfishly.

I want an officeive minded, guy, so I can build with him and you know, be with be with their coach for the next yeah, nineteen sev team fifteen years, helping find the right guys to to, you know, I mean win championships. That's some I mean, that's the only goal that I have for my NFL career.

I want an officeive minded, guy, so I can build with him and you know, be with be with their coach for the next yeah, nineteen sev team fifteen years, helping find the right guys to to, you know, I mean win championships. That's some I mean, that's the only goal that I have for my NFL career.

By the way, I kind of like when the star receivers hair matches the team's colors. I don't know, just me. I don't know why I like that, but I like that thought. I want a strong leader, you know, I want a guy to be cool. If I had an offensive coach, he didn't make a demand. He thought it was really cool if he had an offensive coach. I know, y'all think Ben Johnson and Mike McCarthy coach the different sides of the ball. They're both offensive coaches. One has got a very snazzy trick playbook, which is much easier to do when you have Jared Goff the best O line in football, great tight end, great receivers and two great backs. Was Ben Johnson doing that four years ago? Or did you just learn football? It's much easier, Like Andy Reid, you ever noticed this, It's much easier to be tricky when you're great at the basics, like Chicago's got to get the basics down.

By the way, I kind of like when the star receivers hair matches the team's colors. I don't know, just me. I don't know why I like that, but I like that thought. I want a strong leader, you know, I want a guy to be cool. If I had an offensive coach, he didn't make a demand. He thought it was really cool if he had an offensive coach. I know, y'all think Ben Johnson and Mike McCarthy coach the different sides of the ball. They're both offensive coaches. One has got a very snazzy trick playbook, which is much easier to do when you have Jared Goff the best O line in football, great tight end, great receivers and two great backs. Was Ben Johnson doing that four years ago? Or did you just learn football? It's much easier, Like Andy Reid, you ever noticed this, It's much easier to be tricky when you're great at the basics, like Chicago's got to get the basics down.

Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays and Noone Easter not a em Pacific.

Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays and Noone Easter not a em Pacific.

Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together We're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich. We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture, stories that well other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last twenty years and still work together. I mean that says something right. So check us out. We like to get you involved too, take your phone calls, chop it up. As they say, I'd say, the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the.

Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together We're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich. We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture, stories that well other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last twenty years and still work together. I mean that says something right. So check us out. We like to get you involved too, take your phone calls, chop it up. As they say, I'd say, the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the.

Most interactive show on planetar.

Most interactive show on planetar.

Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app from five to seven pm Eastern two to four Pacific, And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcasts, and of course on social media.

Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app from five to seven pm Eastern two to four Pacific, And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcasts, and of course on social media.

That's Covino and Rich. All Right, here we go, it's our two. Been waiting for this for a long time, live in Los Angeles.

That's Covino and Rich. All Right, here we go, it's our two. Been waiting for this for a long time, live in Los Angeles.

It is the herd.

It is the herd.

Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day. You know, I used to have a relationship at the other Place with David Stern, the late great Commissioner David Stern, who was the boss of Adam Silver, And that was always funny because he would join me during his lunch and he was always eating during the interview, which I made sure he knew that I knew. But the interviews were feisty and fun. And so I've been looking forward to this because the NBA is still incredibly culturally relevant, and they just signed contracts with networks for seventy seven billion dollars, and they do get beat up a lot because, let's be honest, their star players are often bigger than NFL players. So there's a lot to unravel and unpack here when we bring on Adam Silver eleven years as the NBA commissioner. So let's start with the good stuff. International expansion, China and Africa. You have a new CBA for seven years. You just signed a massive TV deal. I like the NBA cup. I'm a distracted consumer. If the court's purple, I know it matters. I like it. I think it works. So there's a lot of good here, more good than bad. But I'm gonna set this question up because this is something I struggle with. I'm a consumer and I'm distracted. I'm on my phone as much as TV. So I have been watching Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese. They feel like burden magic because I am viscerally connected to them via college. This is why studios do sequels. I know the actors. Zach Edy, I really like watching him plays, having a very nice rookie season. But I know him because Matt Painter and Purdue is a big time program. It would be reductionist to say he's succeeding because he's big. He's succeeding because of what Purdue did, and not only that, commissioner, but I got to watch the growth. So I am emotionally committed to Zach Edy, I think your heart was in the right place with the G League, but it hides players from me that I want to grow with. Is there an argument to be made the college basketball there's I feel like it's not not that it's marginalized, but it's not as big as it could be. It could be such a microwave for your stars, and the league doesn't see it that way. Is that a fair criticism.

Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day. You know, I used to have a relationship at the other Place with David Stern, the late great Commissioner David Stern, who was the boss of Adam Silver, And that was always funny because he would join me during his lunch and he was always eating during the interview, which I made sure he knew that I knew. But the interviews were feisty and fun. And so I've been looking forward to this because the NBA is still incredibly culturally relevant, and they just signed contracts with networks for seventy seven billion dollars, and they do get beat up a lot because, let's be honest, their star players are often bigger than NFL players. So there's a lot to unravel and unpack here when we bring on Adam Silver eleven years as the NBA commissioner. So let's start with the good stuff. International expansion, China and Africa. You have a new CBA for seven years. You just signed a massive TV deal. I like the NBA cup. I'm a distracted consumer. If the court's purple, I know it matters. I like it. I think it works. So there's a lot of good here, more good than bad. But I'm gonna set this question up because this is something I struggle with. I'm a consumer and I'm distracted. I'm on my phone as much as TV. So I have been watching Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese. They feel like burden magic because I am viscerally connected to them via college. This is why studios do sequels. I know the actors. Zach Edy, I really like watching him plays, having a very nice rookie season. But I know him because Matt Painter and Purdue is a big time program. It would be reductionist to say he's succeeding because he's big. He's succeeding because of what Purdue did, and not only that, commissioner, but I got to watch the growth. So I am emotionally committed to Zach Edy, I think your heart was in the right place with the G League, but it hides players from me that I want to grow with. Is there an argument to be made the college basketball there's I feel like it's not not that it's marginalized, but it's not as big as it could be. It could be such a microwave for your stars, and the league doesn't see it that way. Is that a fair criticism.

I don't think it's a fair criticism because we do see it that way and we're doing everything we can to build college basketball. I mean, let me, let me take a few steps back. Like, first of all, in terms of the G League, most of the G League players are either international players who didn't play in college or former college players. In fact, we had a program called Team McKnight. Yes kindaly, so Rice recommended we create. There was an NCAA commission and you'll recall pre collectives and nil money. President Obama criticized us, and then the NCUBA had a commission and said there should be a track, a pro track into the NBA because it was unfair that the only opportunity for these young players was to play without being paid in college. So we had already had the G League, But then we created this program called Team McKnight, where for a select few high school players, if they wanted the opportunity to get to get paid and then come into the NBA, they could play in that program. But even then we recognized that compared to the facilities the conditions at the top D one programs, even though we were paying them and they couldn't have been paid at that point, it was, they were still better off playing at Kentucky or Louisville or Duke or USC or wherever else. And so once the nil and collective money came in, we actually shut down the Team McKnight. We still have the G League, and the last thing we want to do is take top prospects would otherwise be going to school.

I don't think it's a fair criticism because we do see it that way and we're doing everything we can to build college basketball. I mean, let me, let me take a few steps back. Like, first of all, in terms of the G League, most of the G League players are either international players who didn't play in college or former college players. In fact, we had a program called Team McKnight. Yes kindaly, so Rice recommended we create. There was an NCAA commission and you'll recall pre collectives and nil money. President Obama criticized us, and then the NCUBA had a commission and said there should be a track, a pro track into the NBA because it was unfair that the only opportunity for these young players was to play without being paid in college. So we had already had the G League, But then we created this program called Team McKnight, where for a select few high school players, if they wanted the opportunity to get to get paid and then come into the NBA, they could play in that program. But even then we recognized that compared to the facilities the conditions at the top D one programs, even though we were paying them and they couldn't have been paid at that point, it was, they were still better off playing at Kentucky or Louisville or Duke or USC or wherever else. And so once the nil and collective money came in, we actually shut down the Team McKnight. We still have the G League, and the last thing we want to do is take top prospects would otherwise be going to school.

Take Cooper Flag at Duke.

Take Cooper Flag at Duke.

We'd rather he be there than be playing in the NBA right now or be playing in the G League.

We'd rather he be there than be playing in the NBA right now or be playing in the G League.

We want those players to develop.

We want those players to develop.

So, you know, I think there's a misnomer to the extent that you or others feel that we're not supportive of college basketball. I'm personally a huge college basketball fan. I'm Charlie Baker, the former governor of Massachusetts and now head of the and Cuba. He and I've been meeting a lot to talk about collectively what we can do to better develop young American players, which clearly has to begin before they get to college for the NBA. So and you know, we are the league of the w NBA too, And so I pay a lot of attention to Caitlyn Clark and the star players that are emerging and the WNBA and who are coming from college and when whether it's Angel or Caitlin or Juju now and these players come into the w NBA as you know, built fully, you know, multi dimensional stars that people are familiar with like it was in the old days in the NBA.

So, you know, I think there's a misnomer to the extent that you or others feel that we're not supportive of college basketball. I'm personally a huge college basketball fan. I'm Charlie Baker, the former governor of Massachusetts and now head of the and Cuba. He and I've been meeting a lot to talk about collectively what we can do to better develop young American players, which clearly has to begin before they get to college for the NBA. So and you know, we are the league of the w NBA too, And so I pay a lot of attention to Caitlyn Clark and the star players that are emerging and the WNBA and who are coming from college and when whether it's Angel or Caitlin or Juju now and these players come into the w NBA as you know, built fully, you know, multi dimensional stars that people are familiar with like it was in the old days in the NBA.

We love that.

We love that.

The problem is, like so many things in life, I'm not sure we can turn the clock back on that type of development.

The problem is, like so many things in life, I'm not sure we can turn the clock back on that type of development.

I will say it's positive, you know.

I will say it's positive, you know.

Putting aside, I think there's some ishn't need to be addressed in terms of the NIL system and the collectives. It seems like nobody's really happy with it right now. In terms of the competitive landscape, right I think it's positive that those players are able to be paid, and if they're able to be paid, particular of the players that are on the margin of whether they or not they would be lottery picks or first round draft picks. They now have a huge incentive to stay in school because they can there not only can get the further development, but they can get paid as well.

Putting aside, I think there's some ishn't need to be addressed in terms of the NIL system and the collectives. It seems like nobody's really happy with it right now. In terms of the competitive landscape, right I think it's positive that those players are able to be paid, and if they're able to be paid, particular of the players that are on the margin of whether they or not they would be lottery picks or first round draft picks. They now have a huge incentive to stay in school because they can there not only can get the further development, but they can get paid as well.

Here's something that I addressed with David Stern, and I'll address it with you too. I think trades are good for sports. If you look at the best teams in the NBA right now, Oklahoma City, Cleveland, and Boston, they have smart front offices that have drafted and developed well. They can occasionally make a Donovan Mitchell move or Porzingis move or a Drew Holliday, but those teams have drafted and developed well and they're being rewarded for it. You know, Dallas drafted Luca. You know they can go get Kyrie, but lucas the star. The NBA gets a little too caught up if you take Lebron out. Let's just take Lebron out. He is the historic out. Even Kevin Durant, Warriors one before him, Warriors one after him. Is that I think the league sometimes is too concerned with trades. If Jimmy Butler, who's a good player, maybe not a Superstar anymore went to Oklahoma City, I would want to watch them more, or Golden State, I would want to that. The league sometimes to protect the small markets. Let's not worry too much about that. Let's just let players move because the sense that it ruins the league or creates a competitive balance outside of Lebron, it really doesn't. Most of the great teams in this league historically have always been draft and develop, build a core, and then add sprinkle in some good players via trades.

Here's something that I addressed with David Stern, and I'll address it with you too. I think trades are good for sports. If you look at the best teams in the NBA right now, Oklahoma City, Cleveland, and Boston, they have smart front offices that have drafted and developed well. They can occasionally make a Donovan Mitchell move or Porzingis move or a Drew Holliday, but those teams have drafted and developed well and they're being rewarded for it. You know, Dallas drafted Luca. You know they can go get Kyrie, but lucas the star. The NBA gets a little too caught up if you take Lebron out. Let's just take Lebron out. He is the historic out. Even Kevin Durant, Warriors one before him, Warriors one after him. Is that I think the league sometimes is too concerned with trades. If Jimmy Butler, who's a good player, maybe not a Superstar anymore went to Oklahoma City, I would want to watch them more, or Golden State, I would want to that. The league sometimes to protect the small markets. Let's not worry too much about that. Let's just let players move because the sense that it ruins the league or creates a competitive balance outside of Lebron, it really doesn't. Most of the great teams in this league historically have always been draft and develop, build a core, and then add sprinkle in some good players via trades.

I don't think it's an accident that we've had six different teams over the last six years that have won championships, and at the end of the day, we sell competition. And I hear you it sounds like you're making an argument for dynasties to a certain extent, that we should do more to allow a great player to go to an already great team or an already very good team. The problem is that it's zero sum. The players are going to go somewhere. That's the great news. All the top tier players are going to play in the NBA, and that there is a correlation. It's far from perfect, but there's a correlation between what players make and their performance on the floor. And so what we've done, and I understand your point of view over time is while we have a soft cap system, it's become harder and it has been more difficult once you have a fully loaded team. So then add a great player on top of that. And to your point, if Kevin Durant couldn't have gone to Golden State from Oklahoma City when he did, the team he had gone to would have almost by definition, if it weren't already a great team, would have become a great team. And for us, we think that's better league wide in terms of creating more competition. I mean, we're coming off a season last year, it's continued this year. Or I think we have more competitive teams than any time in league history. And to your point, the fact that you know tomorrow night Cleveland and Oklahoma City are playing yet again, you know, fantastic build up for that game, incredible competition. We just got to remember at the end of the day, that's what we're selling. I mean, I think that's part of the reason for the enormous success of the NFL. This any given Sunday notion, nobody thinks twice. If if you know the Packers are in the Super Bowl. There's no bemoaning that it's a small market whatsoever. And I think our league, it's true that if you look back on, you know, the first you know, sixty years of our league, it seemed David Stern joked, you know when when he came into the league, I thought the job was you went back and forth from Boston to la every year, and one of the teams got the rings.

I don't think it's an accident that we've had six different teams over the last six years that have won championships, and at the end of the day, we sell competition. And I hear you it sounds like you're making an argument for dynasties to a certain extent, that we should do more to allow a great player to go to an already great team or an already very good team. The problem is that it's zero sum. The players are going to go somewhere. That's the great news. All the top tier players are going to play in the NBA, and that there is a correlation. It's far from perfect, but there's a correlation between what players make and their performance on the floor. And so what we've done, and I understand your point of view over time is while we have a soft cap system, it's become harder and it has been more difficult once you have a fully loaded team. So then add a great player on top of that. And to your point, if Kevin Durant couldn't have gone to Golden State from Oklahoma City when he did, the team he had gone to would have almost by definition, if it weren't already a great team, would have become a great team. And for us, we think that's better league wide in terms of creating more competition. I mean, we're coming off a season last year, it's continued this year. Or I think we have more competitive teams than any time in league history. And to your point, the fact that you know tomorrow night Cleveland and Oklahoma City are playing yet again, you know, fantastic build up for that game, incredible competition. We just got to remember at the end of the day, that's what we're selling. I mean, I think that's part of the reason for the enormous success of the NFL. This any given Sunday notion, nobody thinks twice. If if you know the Packers are in the Super Bowl. There's no bemoaning that it's a small market whatsoever. And I think our league, it's true that if you look back on, you know, the first you know, sixty years of our league, it seemed David Stern joked, you know when when he came into the league, I thought the job was you went back and forth from Boston to la every year, and one of the teams got the rings.

You know.

You know.

And I think the fact that now we're selling competition in every market, and that in terms of from a television standpoint too, that you know, whether it's Oklahoma City, whether it's San Antonio, whether it's Salt Lake City, that those teams are in a position when well managed to compete in the same way the large markets can.

And I think the fact that now we're selling competition in every market, and that in terms of from a television standpoint too, that you know, whether it's Oklahoma City, whether it's San Antonio, whether it's Salt Lake City, that those teams are in a position when well managed to compete in the same way the large markets can.

And by the way, I mean it's not just money.

And by the way, I mean it's not just money.

I mean players choose markets based on you know, climate taxes, Some like big cities, some like small cities. Yeah, but you know, I think I'm balanced. This is a much better system for a thirty team league.

I mean players choose markets based on you know, climate taxes, Some like big cities, some like small cities. Yeah, but you know, I think I'm balanced. This is a much better system for a thirty team league.

I'm gonna throw this at you. I said this the other day about the esthetic of the NBA. It's a bit homogenous, a little cookie cutter. And I said, listen, I don't mind three pointers. But if the NFL was just you could run the ball and throw bombs. No layering, no drag routes, no tight end screen. It was just run it or bombs. Optically, it's not as fascinating. And I love the three pointer, but like and you know this, you're a pretty progressive thinker. I think athletes are better. Wemby can pull up and cross you over in a dribbled and shoot. They couldn't do that ten years ago. And the truth is, because your players are so gifted and it's such a global pool, the three pointer is too easy. And I have simply said I would put the three pointer. I would go have it go into the bench about six feet up, eliminate the corner. I'd bring back the handcheck. I do like physicality. Your athletes are so great it's become too easy to hit it, and the optics on it are repetitive. I think there's numbers ratings that prove people they like layers and power forwards in physicality and not just dunks and threes. What do you do to solve that? Because I think you've engaged with people and acknowledged it can be a bit repetitive. It is a bit of an issue. What do we do to change it?

I'm gonna throw this at you. I said this the other day about the esthetic of the NBA. It's a bit homogenous, a little cookie cutter. And I said, listen, I don't mind three pointers. But if the NFL was just you could run the ball and throw bombs. No layering, no drag routes, no tight end screen. It was just run it or bombs. Optically, it's not as fascinating. And I love the three pointer, but like and you know this, you're a pretty progressive thinker. I think athletes are better. Wemby can pull up and cross you over in a dribbled and shoot. They couldn't do that ten years ago. And the truth is, because your players are so gifted and it's such a global pool, the three pointer is too easy. And I have simply said I would put the three pointer. I would go have it go into the bench about six feet up, eliminate the corner. I'd bring back the handcheck. I do like physicality. Your athletes are so great it's become too easy to hit it, and the optics on it are repetitive. I think there's numbers ratings that prove people they like layers and power forwards in physicality and not just dunks and threes. What do you do to solve that? Because I think you've engaged with people and acknowledged it can be a bit repetitive. It is a bit of an issue. What do we do to change it?

That The hardest question is the last one you asked, what do we do to change it? I agree to the extent that you start to see very similar offenses. Yes, around the league. You know, team have brands, teams have identity. You know Joe Dumars is a colleague now at the league office, the Bad Boys, et cetera. You know, I think you know the Showtime Lakers. So I recognize that the extent that offenses start to look very similar, we lose that. At the same time, the league is going through a transformation. Just as you said, players like Victor Webbin Yama, players like you know Yokich are doing things big men never did historically. I mean, it wasn't that long ago.

That The hardest question is the last one you asked, what do we do to change it? I agree to the extent that you start to see very similar offenses. Yes, around the league. You know, team have brands, teams have identity. You know Joe Dumars is a colleague now at the league office, the Bad Boys, et cetera. You know, I think you know the Showtime Lakers. So I recognize that the extent that offenses start to look very similar, we lose that. At the same time, the league is going through a transformation. Just as you said, players like Victor Webbin Yama, players like you know Yokich are doing things big men never did historically. I mean, it wasn't that long ago.

Column.

Column.

You'll remember that conversations you had with David Stern. We would bemoan the lack of skill among some players that you know, there there was a sense there was too much physicality.

You'll remember that conversations you had with David Stern. We would bemoan the lack of skill among some players that you know, there there was a sense there was too much physicality.

Yes, that the.

Yes, that the.

Play under the back, you know that that you would have, you know, the hack a shack era. You know there were big men that just couldn't shoot free throws. There are no big men anymore who can't shoot by throws, just as one comparable from general generation to generation have never been higher.

Play under the back, you know that that you would have, you know, the hack a shack era. You know there were big men that just couldn't shoot free throws. There are no big men anymore who can't shoot by throws, just as one comparable from general generation to generation have never been higher.

So I think we just got to be careful.

So I think we just got to be careful.

Like the one one thing I want to do is I don't want to sort of knee jerk move the three point line. We're sort of going through a process now seeing how these players are adapting to the new rules and figuring out if whatever changes we should make. I mean, be honest, I wish it were as simple as just moving the three point line back, because then we would just do it. I mean, part of the concern from the basketball folks is that if you move the three point line back, you'll end up sort of just clogging up, you know, the sort of the area under the basket, and that's not such attractive basketball either.

Like the one one thing I want to do is I don't want to sort of knee jerk move the three point line. We're sort of going through a process now seeing how these players are adapting to the new rules and figuring out if whatever changes we should make. I mean, be honest, I wish it were as simple as just moving the three point line back, because then we would just do it. I mean, part of the concern from the basketball folks is that if you move the three point line back, you'll end up sort of just clogging up, you know, the sort of the area under the basket, and that's not such attractive basketball either.

I think this is doable.

I think this is doable.

I think we by examining the game and sort of seeing where it's going. I mean, it frustrates me a little as well, because it's obviously you're representative of how what a fair number of people are saying about the game, and I watch it night in night out, and we're seeing some of the most incredible athleticism and skill in the history of this league.

I think we by examining the game and sort of seeing where it's going. I mean, it frustrates me a little as well, because it's obviously you're representative of how what a fair number of people are saying about the game, and I watch it night in night out, and we're seeing some of the most incredible athleticism and skill in the history of this league.

Again Victor Wembanyama.

Again Victor Wembanyama.

But I think you're also saying too that if we move the three point line and what we ended up with was Victor Minyama standing under the basket the whole time, just waiting you're done, that wouldn't be interesting. So, you know, one, I assure you we are on it. I think it's a very fixable issue. I mean, it's you know we've gone from I mean I always tell the story like Bob Coosey, who I don't know, he's around ninety five years old, still stays in touch with me, and he'll call me after watching a game and say, I'm so frustrated because the commentators think that what these players are doing, let's say, from twenty eight feet or thirty feet and seemingly just flicking the ball up with their wrists and swishing these three pointers, that somehow that's easy. They said, the skill level is incredible. But he'll also say, you know, I think we all want to see diversity in the offenses. But by the way, one other thing I'll just throw in, I don't think the players are getting enough credit for playing the style defense they're playing now as well. So it's an incredible game. I know you love the game. It's, you know, the number one participation sport in the United States.

But I think you're also saying too that if we move the three point line and what we ended up with was Victor Minyama standing under the basket the whole time, just waiting you're done, that wouldn't be interesting. So, you know, one, I assure you we are on it. I think it's a very fixable issue. I mean, it's you know we've gone from I mean I always tell the story like Bob Coosey, who I don't know, he's around ninety five years old, still stays in touch with me, and he'll call me after watching a game and say, I'm so frustrated because the commentators think that what these players are doing, let's say, from twenty eight feet or thirty feet and seemingly just flicking the ball up with their wrists and swishing these three pointers, that somehow that's easy. They said, the skill level is incredible. But he'll also say, you know, I think we all want to see diversity in the offenses. But by the way, one other thing I'll just throw in, I don't think the players are getting enough credit for playing the style defense they're playing now as well. So it's an incredible game. I know you love the game. It's, you know, the number one participation sport in the United States.

You mentioned Caitlyn Clark. It's incredible to see.

You mentioned Caitlyn Clark. It's incredible to see.

What the women are now doing on the floor and the amount of young girls who are playing this game. So as stewards of the game, you know Joe Dumar's leads our competition committee here, you know we will tweak it, we will correct those issues.

What the women are now doing on the floor and the amount of young girls who are playing this game. So as stewards of the game, you know Joe Dumar's leads our competition committee here, you know we will tweak it, we will correct those issues.

So years ago I had a President Barack Obama on a couple of times, and one of the things I offered him, I said, you're the first president in my life that's had the deal with social media and the vile nature of it. It may not change policy, but does it change the discussions in the briefing rooms before you go out? Does it change the way perhaps you think of policy. Because we're in a tribal nation, it's very loud. So along those lines, I love George Brett as a baseball player. As a kid Kansas City Royals, George Brett often missed thirty games in a season. Nobody thought it was load management, right, we live in a different time. Platforms call it out and tickets are more expensive, so it does bother me I'm a small town kid. I went once a year to see downtown Freddie Brown, Gus Williams, Dennis Johnson, Jack Sikma. If they didn't play, that was the game I got. And I can see that little kid in Milwaukee, middle class family go and Yannis could play, but he doesn't. Is it a bigger problem? I think it's a problem. Do you view it as being sort of platformed up by loud voices or does the league look at this and think, you know, our middle class fans they go to one game a year, they're not corporate stewards, and that they want to go and see their stars play. I think it's serious. Do you in the league think it is a problem that is something you want to solve.

So years ago I had a President Barack Obama on a couple of times, and one of the things I offered him, I said, you're the first president in my life that's had the deal with social media and the vile nature of it. It may not change policy, but does it change the discussions in the briefing rooms before you go out? Does it change the way perhaps you think of policy. Because we're in a tribal nation, it's very loud. So along those lines, I love George Brett as a baseball player. As a kid Kansas City Royals, George Brett often missed thirty games in a season. Nobody thought it was load management, right, we live in a different time. Platforms call it out and tickets are more expensive, so it does bother me I'm a small town kid. I went once a year to see downtown Freddie Brown, Gus Williams, Dennis Johnson, Jack Sikma. If they didn't play, that was the game I got. And I can see that little kid in Milwaukee, middle class family go and Yannis could play, but he doesn't. Is it a bigger problem? I think it's a problem. Do you view it as being sort of platformed up by loud voices or does the league look at this and think, you know, our middle class fans they go to one game a year, they're not corporate stewards, and that they want to go and see their stars play. I think it's serious. Do you in the league think it is a problem that is something you want to solve.

We so much think it's a problem that in the last collective bargaining agreement you may recall, we added some provisions to further incentivized players to play as many games as they possibly can by making them ineligible for certain awards, certain benefits if they fall below a certain level of games. Having said that, to your point, you know, and I'm never going to shoot the messenger. In terms of whether it's social media or the media, it's a real issue. And how can you know for that family for that one time that they're going to go see the Box or the Lakers or the Knicks or whatever else. I completely understand their point of view. The problem is as much as we are an eighty two game league.

We so much think it's a problem that in the last collective bargaining agreement you may recall, we added some provisions to further incentivized players to play as many games as they possibly can by making them ineligible for certain awards, certain benefits if they fall below a certain level of games. Having said that, to your point, you know, and I'm never going to shoot the messenger. In terms of whether it's social media or the media, it's a real issue. And how can you know for that family for that one time that they're going to go see the Box or the Lakers or the Knicks or whatever else. I completely understand their point of view. The problem is as much as we are an eighty two game league.

I mean take Lebron for example.

I mean take Lebron for example.

Okay, Lebron has missed I think three games so far this season. Yeah, he's forty years old, he has the most minutes in NBA history, and he's missed I think three out of let's say thirty seven games so far.

Okay, Lebron has missed I think three games so far this season. Yeah, he's forty years old, he has the most minutes in NBA history, and he's missed I think three out of let's say thirty seven games so far.

I think that's incredible.

I think that's incredible.

Now for the family that went to the Laker game of one of those three games, I understand their disappointment, and I know he does as well. You know, it's with it with its season as long as we have, by the way, and whether it's because load management or an injury, it's still the same impact on that family. And all I can say is we've worked with our teams. We're working a lot on the science. I think, incidentally, you don't hear load management so much around the league anymore because I think we've dispelled that notion that it's somehow, through some analytics or a computer program that on November twelfth, you can make a decision that a player should sit out on December twentieth, which is what was going on in the league. And in fact, my understanding, at least of the data that's come in so far, it may even be the case that some of the early season injuries are caused by players not having enough load.

Now for the family that went to the Laker game of one of those three games, I understand their disappointment, and I know he does as well. You know, it's with it with its season as long as we have, by the way, and whether it's because load management or an injury, it's still the same impact on that family. And all I can say is we've worked with our teams. We're working a lot on the science. I think, incidentally, you don't hear load management so much around the league anymore because I think we've dispelled that notion that it's somehow, through some analytics or a computer program that on November twelfth, you can make a decision that a player should sit out on December twentieth, which is what was going on in the league. And in fact, my understanding, at least of the data that's come in so far, it may even be the case that some of the early season injuries are caused by players not having enough load.

Because even thank you again, you.

Because even thank you again, you.

Know, it's fascinating, Like when I got to the league a little over thirty years ago, a lot of players would take the month of August and like literally go fishing, you know. They would show out and they would like eat a little bit more, gain a little bit of weight. They'd come into training camp and that's when you got back into shape and you'd lose those pounds and you'd play your way and and and train and practice back into game shape. Now there's not there's hardly a player in the league that isn't working out every single day. Guys even go to the finals, they take a day off, they're back on the floor. But often it's specialized one on one training, it's weight room work, whatever it is. It's not five on five basketball. Because and a lot of it. In fairness, these players and that's what frustrates me too, because they don't take a day off. There's some of the hardest working athletes out there, but then they have it in their head that they're more likely to get injured if they're playing five on five.

Know, it's fascinating, Like when I got to the league a little over thirty years ago, a lot of players would take the month of August and like literally go fishing, you know. They would show out and they would like eat a little bit more, gain a little bit of weight. They'd come into training camp and that's when you got back into shape and you'd lose those pounds and you'd play your way and and and train and practice back into game shape. Now there's not there's hardly a player in the league that isn't working out every single day. Guys even go to the finals, they take a day off, they're back on the floor. But often it's specialized one on one training, it's weight room work, whatever it is. It's not five on five basketball. Because and a lot of it. In fairness, these players and that's what frustrates me too, because they don't take a day off. There's some of the hardest working athletes out there, but then they have it in their head that they're more likely to get injured if they're playing five on five.

So yeah, right, sorry.

So yeah, right, sorry.

So then they come back into training camp and it's still not necessarily five on five. There's the preseason again, minutes are limited. Then boom, the regular season comes and at least I can't say it's perfect. I know it's causation yet, but there's certainly correlation early in the season that you see those guys.

So then they come back into training camp and it's still not necessarily five on five. There's the preseason again, minutes are limited. Then boom, the regular season comes and at least I can't say it's perfect. I know it's causation yet, but there's certainly correlation early in the season that you see those guys.

And it's interesting.

And it's interesting.

It used to it be we would hear from teams that you're going to injure our players if they play for USA Basketball, the US national team, the Olympic team, where the national teams you know, from the countries they're from.

It used to it be we would hear from teams that you're going to injure our players if they play for USA Basketball, the US national team, the Olympic team, where the national teams you know, from the countries they're from.

In fact, it's the opposite.

In fact, it's the opposite.

We have fewer injuries and maybe not surprisingly from the guys who participate in competition over the summer because the load is maintained. They're not overdoing it, you know, I mean I I but you know they come back and there's the consistency of the load, you know, throughout the off season. So I think this is an area too where better data, you know, AI is changing everything where we're going to be in a position, I think where we can convince the teams and convince the players that actually playing is in their interest. But unfortunately we're never going to be able to completely solve that issue for that family that comes to that game and is disappointed. I will say, just lastly, it maybe speaks a little bit to the data that were coming off last year. In the entire history of the NBA, it was our highest attendance and I'm sure I mean I read that market, no doubt the highest ticket prices too. So I will say, yes, they're fans disappointed, but people love the NBA experience, they love going to the games. I understand when there's a particular star you're interested. But also we've never been deeper in terms of the talent to four hundred and fifty players in the league.

We have fewer injuries and maybe not surprisingly from the guys who participate in competition over the summer because the load is maintained. They're not overdoing it, you know, I mean I I but you know they come back and there's the consistency of the load, you know, throughout the off season. So I think this is an area too where better data, you know, AI is changing everything where we're going to be in a position, I think where we can convince the teams and convince the players that actually playing is in their interest. But unfortunately we're never going to be able to completely solve that issue for that family that comes to that game and is disappointed. I will say, just lastly, it maybe speaks a little bit to the data that were coming off last year. In the entire history of the NBA, it was our highest attendance and I'm sure I mean I read that market, no doubt the highest ticket prices too. So I will say, yes, they're fans disappointed, but people love the NBA experience, they love going to the games. I understand when there's a particular star you're interested. But also we've never been deeper in terms of the talent to four hundred and fifty players in the league.

Okay, I'm gonna ask you a couple quick ones because I know you're a busy guy, much busier than me, and these can these can require shorter answers. So one of the things the iPhone has changed everything. Our society is more caffeinated more distracted and more frenetic. Hockey regular season, baseball regular season, NBA regular season, it's just harder to get ratings. Events UFC on Saturday, college football, NFL, Olympics, World Cup events get excellent ratings. It's not necessarily the fault of a league if there's a decline in Monday through Friday. And as I look and read stories about the decline of ratings, my take is it's an iPhone issue. It's not baseball until Otawni and the Dodgers put up basically the best most talented team ever, the Dodgers had great ratings. Is that can you just is it just possible that, hey, we have contracts that limit the number of games we can be reduced to. We don't want to make one and done like college basketball? Is that your regular season ratings they don't matter that much because I just saw your new TV deals and that the media makes a bigger deal of the truth is we're good when it matters in May and June, and that's just a new world.