Thanks for listening to the Best of Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from twelve to three eastern, nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS one. Find your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd. This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowhern on Fox Sports Radio. Oh here we go. So much content? Where do I start? Live in Los Angeles. It's the Herd wherever you may be and however you may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day. J mac kd debuts tonight for the Phoenix Suns. That thing's gonna work Game one. It's gonna work instantly, just like Kyrie and Dallas and Russell Westbrook at the Clippers. Those are different cats. I'll get to that in five minutes. Are you excited? It's March the calendar, says Mark. I'm excited because of two or three things. One, this is the final stretch for the NBA. Notice how well the Warriors played last night? Oh yeah, here goes Kady and the Suns. This is a good time of the year. Let me start with this, Aaron Rodgers went on a podcast with a philosopher, Don't giggle, nothing wrong with philosophers, and on the podcast, he talked about giving the Green Bay Packers heads up on what he's going to do, and as it often is with Aaron Rodgers, it was thoughtful, he said. Listen quote he was on this Aubrey Marcus podcast. He's a philosopher, I'm told, he said, there's a finality to the decision. I'm not taking it lightly. I don't want to drag anybody around. I'm answering questions because I got asked about it. I'm talking about it because it's important to me. If you don't like it, you think it's drama, you think I'm a diva or whatever, tune it out. That's fine, But this is my life. It's important to me. I'll make a decision soon enough and we'll go down that road. I'll be really excited about that. So there's two ways you could kind of look at this if you're a Packer fan. Number one is it's March first. The season ended February twelfth. It's no big deal. The Packers don't have any cap space anyway in free agency, which starts in two weeks. Even if Aaron left, they don't have a lot of cap space. And it's not like Green Bay's ever a big player in free agency. And for God's sakes, Jordan loves in the building. If Aaron leaves, they got the guy in the building. The season just ended a couple of weeks ago, and it ain't that big of a deal in green Bay free agency. It's an eye roll. It's not like people are lining up to go there, and they don't have much cap space with or without Aaron. You could look at the Second Way season ended January eighth. You're taking retreats. You just spend four days in darkness. Come out with an answer. I mean, what'd you're doing there? I get that one too. Be a grown up, make a decision. My take is on a macro level is big corporations, including this one, the NFL, the Packers, they like control. They don't like m questions, They don't they don't like not having their plans finalized. They like certainties, they like cost certainties, they like guarantees. And the truth is in America in twenty twenty three, movies, music, and sports, some of these superstars they got more leverage. They got multiple suitors and they're gonna work on their clock, and you've got to get over it. And this is exactly how Aaron Rodgers acted two and three years ago. This isn't a radical change of personality. You gave him an extension knowing this is who he is that's on the Packers. You made a decision a year ago to give him the bag, knowing his personality. Aaron's not a radical. I mean, what did Maya Angelo say? People act a certain way, you know, they show you who they are. Believe him. Aaron is arguably the most authentic, honest and upfront professional a we have. Doesn't mean I always agree with him, but he lets he puts his cards on the table. He'll tell you what he thinks about the media, about vaccines, about conspiracy theories. He'll tell you what he thinks about the Packers. He's got a quote in this podcast he talks about Matt Laflour. So I've always kind of had a theory on this is that if you're honest with me, I can deal with anything after that. Just be upfront, don't be passive aggressive, just be upfront about it. So Aaron's basically telling you. I'm just being authentic. I'm just being honest. I'm just being up front. This stuff means a lot. You know who I am. You gave me an extension. I'll give an answer soon enough, and I'm okay with it. I really am. I do think at some point when you go on a retreat, like I said this earlier, if I was on the fence, I don't know if I want to stay married or not. And I told my wife, I'm gonna go to Vegas with the boys for four days. I'll get closer to an answer when I get back. Probably not what he wants to hear. But big agencies, big governments, big companies, big corporations, big groups with power want answers and with stars in America today making what they make, multiple platforms, multiple revenue streams, multiple suitors. Aaron Rodgers has more control than Green Bay does, and they knew it, and they gave him an extension. Anyway, last year, it's on them, it's not on him. And they're not a big free agent player anyway. And hell, Jordan loves in the building. If Aaron walks, he's in the building. You got the replacement. You don't have to go ahead and get car Garoppolo. He's in the building, all right. So this is something. Speaking of big personalities, I like Kevin Durant a lot, you know that. And one of the reasons I think Kevin Durant's going to be really successful with the Phoenix Suns is he's a baller. He's not a strident personality. He's kind of chill. He's a plug and play guy. You can put Kevin Durant with anybody. He worked with Draymond, he worked with staff. He got Westbrook to a finals actually before he got hurt this year. He and Ben Sea. Work with Ben Simmons. Nobody can work with Ben Simmons except Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant works on Olympic teams. He works on the West Coast, the Midwest, the East Coast, young players, old players, it doesn't matter. Kevin Durant's a baller. He doesn't need the ball in his hands all the time. He's not a strident personality. But it was very interesting both the Mavericks with Kyrie Irving and the Clippers a good team Dallas they brought in at the trade deadline. Kyrie Irving, big personality, strong opinions and a certain defined style. And they're one and four and the Clippers a pretty good basketball team. I think they're the one team that matches up very very well with Golden State Warriors getting hotter now Westbrook big strident style, defined style, very rigid, doesn't make them bad guys. But the Clippers lost again last night. They're oh and three with Westbrook, and so the bigger the personality, the more strident the game, the more defined the style. Maybe bringing them in at the trading deadline is too much for the Clippers and the Dallas Mavericks to handle. Kyrie and Westbrook are like adding a really strong spice to a meal and you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what is that? That's gonna take some getting used to. They are strong. They'll tell you what they think. Their style is this and not that. Neither plays a lick a defense. They both need the ball, they both want their points head down. This is what I am. That's not Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant, you can add him to any dish. It doesn't He worked with Ben Simmons, they were a two seed before he got hurt. He worked with Steph he worked with Draymond, He worked with everybody. He was the only thing that worked in Brooklyn, the only thing. So he's going to hit it out of the park with the sun starting tonight. He'll have big points, he'll dominate and they'll roll, and I think they're going to get My guess is they're getting to the West during conference finals. But Westbrook has struggled with James harden Hell, he struggled with Lebron. Nobody struggles with Lebron. Everybody works. Bosh worked, Battier worked, Ray Allen worked, the Wade work, Kyrie Irving work, Kevin Love worked, JR. Smith worked, Anthony Davis worked, TCP worked. Westbrook didn't work. Westbrook didn't work with Lebron. And so at the trading deadline in basketball, maybe it's simply asking too much to bring in a very ball centric, defined personality at the break. It'd be different if you bring him in preseason, you kind of work through your issues, guys, kind of hang out, you know what you have, and you slowly work him in. But to just bring in Westbrook and Kyrie and say jam him in that strong spice at the deadline, because the Mavericks are good and the Clippers are really good, and they're both one and seven combined with these two guys. So and by the way, Westbrook wuggled with Harden, he struggled with Mellow and Paul George. It goes back. Sam Presty runs Oklahoma City, highly respected, one of the smartest guys in basketball. And I don't have all the inner workings of it, but I still contend. As the league was becoming a shooters league, Kevin Durant felt like the team was pro Westbrook and not pro Kevin. And in the end, I would have made it, and Sam is brilliant, but I would have made it abundantly clear years in advance. It's Durant's team Westbrook, take it or leave it. Kevin felt like they made a choice, and it was too often Westbrook. He went time and time again reportedly and said, listen, the guy has the ball in his hands. I get the ball too, Laton shot clock. Can we make it work? He's kind of got a rigid style. So it's the one mistake. Presty's done a really good job there, but it's one. It's the one situation in his career. How can you let Kevin Durant walk out the door and not Curry favor with him every second of the day. So just interesting. The Clippers are now all in three with Westbrook situationally end of the game last night, made a play that was regrettable. Not sure why you'd have him in late and the Mavericks are now one and four with Kyrie irving. Katie meanwhile starts tonight and he is going to crush for Phoenix, plug and play guy. Um, all right, we got a lot of stuff. Very excited j McK. You know, there's just opportunities to love so much in life and sports, and the next month is going to be so great unless you're a Clippers fan and you watch Tyler shove Westbrook into the starting lineup. Tyler is supposed to be a great coach. Column, what on earth is he doing? Here's the other thing. It's not a surprise that with non verbal Kauhi and passive Paul George that Westbrook fills the void, fills the vacuum. Right, there's there's a space for a big, strong personality. You insert Westbrooke in and he takes control because Kawai's nonverbal and Paul's a great player. May a little pass like he always feels like a two even though he's got one talent. So you put Westbrook in and he's like, I'll take over. Of course he will. That's his personality, that's his style, that's who he is. So he shouldn't have some awareness and realize, like, hey man, you're joining a team that's a contender. Sit back a little bit. That's not the ball around. That's not what he is. And that he eats their own that's not what he is. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays and noon Eastern a Empacific on Fox Sports Radio FS one and the iHeart Radio app. Sean Payton my friend, by the way, my friend Sean Payton who used to visit me every week for thirty minutes and give me all sorts of insights, and then my friend left me. There's some sadness, But now I can root for him for the Denver Broncos, and I think he's gonna do very well. We both talked about this is this is the easiest team in the league to bet they're gonna double their win total. Denver's gonna be much better. How much better? With Herbert in the division and you know Mahomes and Andy Reid, but they're gonna be much better. And so Sean Payton, the Russell Wilson office thing got a lot of play. He had his own office, second floor, a lot of leaks, a lot of shrapnel on this thing now, and people didn't like it. So Sean Payton recently talked about it, and here he is. It was a tough year. And so someone said it last night. I forget what I was watching. You know, they have success last night. I don't think the upstairs meeting room matters to anybody. I don't think it matters because I didn't see any articles from any of you, you know, prior to week one or week two, and that was happening. But that's what happens. When you lose. Then everything gets looked at closely, and including the coaching. By the way, I disagree a little. The number one rule in sports, all sports, all levels, if you're winning, don't derail the train. Okay, keep it to yourself. Nobody cares about your problems, nobody cares about your ego, your paycheck. If you're winning, don't derail it. Hard to win, hard to win, all levels, hard to win for the Warriors. Hard to win now. For Alabama football, it's hard to win. Don't derail it now once you'll lose. Stuff leaks. But I believe this to be true. I've worked at a lot of different companies. Even when the companies are crushing, employees are grumbling privately about something. There's no perfect company, there's no always happy employee, right. So, I think one of the things Russell Wilson's personality did not change. He's the same guy. I've known Russell for a long time. It's the same exact guy. What change is the win loss record, And so I don't think I mean you're seeing it now. It's easy to pile on Russell Wilson, and it is surprising to me how much joy people in Seattle and Denver immediately took in piling on Russell Wilson. I've always liked him. He's a very religious guy. He's a very optimistic guy. There's a Tebow quality to him. It's always sunny, let's ride. It doesn't bother me. What bothered me about Tebow was he wasn't very good. If you can play, you can play your religion, your optimism something. I think it's corny or inauthentic. What do I care if you're a good dad, good husband, good player. I don't care what church you go to. I really don't, but I think it's interesting. Aaron Rodgers, Kyler Murray, and Russell Wilson. Nobody said a word about Kyler Murray's work ethic for two years. He saved the franchise. He got better first year to second, second year to third, nobody said anything. And then he gets banged up, doesn't play, and now everything leaks. So you know that Kyler Murray and his lack of attention to detail was an issue in the building when they were winning, but nobody talked about it. So I don't think they're perfect companies. I think there's always unhappy employees even when you win. But the ruling sports has always been the same. Don't derail the train when you're winning because winning is hard and the margins and pro sports are thin as far as the office goes. Belichick couldn't stand when Brady had Alex Guerrero in the building. Remember that the trainer and he was the goat and they were winning. Belichick didn't like it. Coaches like control Saban does Belichick does Sean Payton does never forget Sean Payton's answer initially when asked about Russell Wilson's office, Russell Wilson had a personal coach, jais in the building with access who wasn't on the staff. I'm not too familiar with that. How do you feel about players having their own people off the staff in the building access to play. Yeah, that's foreign to me that that's not going to take place here. I mean, I'm unfamiliar with it. But our staff will be here, our players will be here, and that'll be here. By the way, Aaron has a little pushback from management in Green Bay. They want control and they want answers, and Russell maybe have a little pushback in Denver. They want you to be with the rest of the guys. You don't get your own office. And Kyler Murray in Arizona, you're not studying as much as you want as we want. So we're gonna make it public again. We're moving into a new time. It's not a bad time, but sports music and movies now these guys have These guys have power, and you gotta hand them Benny's that you don't give to other players. And that's the reality of it and nobody's nobody's completely happy with Russell, Aaron or Kyler. But when you win, they're still grumbling. But you don't let it out, don't derail it. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdaysaid Neun. East're not a empacific. I don't mean to be obnoxious, but the NBA playoffs are a different sport than the regular season. We discussed this yesterday that in the regular season, the Knicks play the Celtics on Monday Night, they have two different mindsets. It's the last game of a road trip for Boston. They rest Jalen Brown, first quarter, Nick's hair on fire, they'd won five in a row. They're at home, they're trying to get a better See Boston doesn't isn't losing a lot of sleep on seating in the East, and so you know, the Knicks win and everybody's like, ah, game menton doesn't meant very very little to Boston. But in the playoffs, that's different. Everybody's got the same passion, the same equally rested roster, So it's a whole different ball game. And for years and years I've watched people cover this sport and they fall for these the derreck Rose Bulls who had never won anything, so that the seating became huge, Folks, seating doesn't matter to championship level teams. It just doesn't matter. They'll win on the road, they'll win at home. The Warriors went to Boston and won when they had to win. That's what you do if you're great. Boston wasn't great. They were good. Okay, Warriors are great. They won the final. They go on the road, they win the most important game in the series. So the Warriors won last night. They played like crap early, but they're the best third quarter basketball team on the planet, have been for most of the last eight nine years. Came out with a huge third quarter, came from twenty three down to win. And have you noticed now as they rest players, get players healthy, give them some time off, they've won three straight. Clay Thompson's having his best year and half a decade, Steph is returning soon. And a little reminder, they're starting five when it's Steph, Clay Wiggins, Green and Cavon Looney number one in the NBA per one hundred possessions. And so what they've done, they've figured out their bench, which was a real struggle early in the year. Jamichael Green, a veteran player, comes off the bench, can add size, Dante de Vincenzo add some shooting in leadership, Jordan Poole ad some scoring, and Jonathan Cominga adds athleticism. So now they've got the rotation and the bench figured out. The last five NBA champs, one of them was a number one seed. It just doesn't matter. It doesn't mean you want to go on the road a lot, but it means in the end, get your team healthy. Good baseball teams Houston will do this, Dodgers will do this, The Braves will do this. You rest some starters, you get them ready for the big final run. You get them ready for the postseason. In the playoffs, the head coach matters a lot. That's why I think Miami will upset somebody in the East. The head coach matters a lot. Steve kerrs as good a coach as we have, especially situationally, defense matters more. The Warriors haven't played good regular season defense. Why they come off an extended playoff run. They're older, they're tired, but they've figured their bench out. They've got some scoring, some length, some size cominga athleticism leadership. And we're not even talking Gary Payton the second. He'll be ready in a month. He's a terrific lockdown defender. Here's Steve kur on last night's come from behind win. It just feels like we're coming together, you know, it feels like there's some chemistry, some energy that's forming. We've been battling all season and without Steph and Wigs for so much of the season, and you know, these guys have done a great job of just keeping our heads above water. And look at the West now, whereas in the East you have the battle tested Celtics in the playoffs and the battle tested Bucks. Those are very worthy championship level teams. Right in the West, it's a who's who of what have you ever done? Denver, Memphis, Sacramento? What do you A? Clippers and teams have done nothing. They've never proven anything. You think the regular season seating matters for the Warriors. All those guys have been in big games. Looney and Draymond and Wiggins and Staff and Clay here they come. He was good about it. Blist right here. YEA. Currently the Warriors are slated for a four or five matchup with the Phoenix Suns. Now, if memory serves yesterday, you had Booker and Kevin Durant as a very dangerous duo. Yeah, you don't think the Warriors would love to avoid them and maybe rather play the Kings of the Grizzlies. I think they dominated the Grizzlies last year in the playoffs. Kings haven't been in the playoffs. I think in the next twenty games, the standings in the West are going to stay the same. But I think the Warriors strategically should try to avoid Kevin Durant and Phoenix in the first round or get rid of the biggest threat right away, go right at him. Well, all I'm saying is I think Katie and the Suns are going to be excellent, But if they face the Warriors in a series, I'm taking Golden State. Guys would be good. Guys haven't played a game yet. I know they'll be good. But when you watch the playoffs last year, it now the Warriors were much better last year, and last year may have been the year to get them because Clay Thompson was coming off the injury. But you know staff now they're not going to rush him back. Clay Thompson's having the backcourt for the Warriors is substantially better this year because Deven Genzo has been a great addition great. Jordan Pool now is more consistent, Clay's having his best year in half a decade, and now Steph going to be rested heading into the final run. So they're back court is better. Their issue has been Okay, Wiseman doesn't work. He can score, but he doesn't really fit. I mean when you watch Wiseman play with him, it didn't work. So they have Jamichael you know Green, who's a veteran guy, Ban bounced around the league, Jayvon Looney, Cavon Looney, so they got some size. Their issue sometimes is a size issue. They can give up cheap stuff underneath. But now the wing position they're starting to play Kuminga, who I love, Kerr likes him, doesn't necessarily trust him. But now I've got Wiggins. Now I've got Kominga given me fifteen minutes a night, were Cominga or Pool off the bench. Those two guys are so freaking exciting. Well, like Kuminga had a dunk last night that was through. It was insane. So they're different players. Pool when Stephet Pools a score. He's a score. And by the way, who has a backcourt that has Curry, Clay and Pool. You got three guys that could drop thirty six three. Nobody in the league has that. But it's you generally don't win championships through their guards. It's it's more a wing league. And so Andrew Wiggins. The concern is Wiggins got paid. He's kind of pass it. He's got his ring. Does he care? I think when you're a championship teams, one of the hardest things to do is convinced guys after a long playoff run urgency. It's hard. It's very hard. This is a long, long season. And so remember Popovitch when he had Duncan, never cared about the seed. Now he wanted his team healthy, he wanted it all. SYNCD up six seven and games left in the regular season. Let's get some chemistry. The NBA's unique. You can flip a switch. You can't do it. He was a load management guy, too, right. I think he didn't start it. He did not love it. Yeah, all right. So, speaking of the Bay area, John Lynch, who I covered for years in Tampa and he used to work at this network, great guys. The GM now has built a powerhouse. Um, they have Trey Lance, who they don't know if he can play. Brock purty't be ready maybe for September, and so he said, we may be looking for a quarterback. I think we're all products of our experiences we've learned. You know, was in some meetings today where the leagues discussing potential solutions for you know, third quarterbacks such that we never have that kind of But the reality is it's it's very few and far between where those instances happen. So you know, we'll see and yeah, we may have to look into the quarterback market in addition to Brock and Tray to insulate ourselves from from whatever may happen. Now, Garoppolo is not the answer. They've all said that they're moving off Garoppolo. So you have Brock pretty who may not be ready with a Super Bowl roster, and Trey Lance, who may not be good. We don't know, So keep your eyes on Tom Brady. I'm not joking. Mike Silver, who's very connected Covers, he's a reporter covers. The Niners has said it's almost two obvious Tom's got nothing to do for a year. It's a Super Bowl roster pretty may not be ready, and you're not sure if Tray can play, and Garoppolo's gone, who else would you bring in? Remember when I had Brady on when he announced his retirement. It was brought to my attention when I asked the question about was he one hundred percent sure that? This? Was his answer? The future is very hard to predict for all of us. I mean, nothing's really guaranteed, but I think you just take it day by day. I'm super excited, I really am. I think there's a lot of great things ahead, and I think you need to create space for those things too. And you know, when one thing ends naturally, other opportunities present themselves. And you know, I don't try to make predictions. And sometimes I'm really good with certainty, and I think in this case, I'm good with a little bit of uncertainty, even though I have some great opportunities in my professional life ahead. He didn't give me the answer. Well, that was brought to my attention is that he could have just said it's over. He said, right there, the opportunities San Francisco, Mike Silver, who I trust, is still in play. It is a it's like KD to the Suns. You got all the pieces here, step in and just drive it. Complete passes, get in and out of trouble at the line of scrimmage. So Garoppolo's gone. So with that roster, Kyle Shanahan, are you going to go with a seventh round quarterback and the guy you're not sure can play or the greatest quarterback of all time in an NFC that, As we've noted, Philadelphia is losing some free agents. San Francisco is bringing the guys back. They're bringing everybody back. You're rolling your eyes on this. It makes way too much sense to me. I thought he was just looking at private schools in Miami last month, and I'm not saying he's I thought it was an authentic retire. But after that interview, it was brought to my attention by multiple people. They're like, go back and listen to that answer, and you just listen to it again. It's not definitive, it's kind of fuzzy. It's kind of nebulous. This is Steve Cavino and Rich Davis, and together we are Cavino Enrich Cavino inmates. Thanks buddy, that's right, Caveno, Rich Fox Sports Radio's newest hit show, heard weekdays from five to seven Eastern two to four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app. Every Cavino en Rich shows available as a podcast. Just search Covino en Rich wherever you get your podcasts and subscribe of such a rockin' dude. The show features our unique take on sports, injected with some fun, humor and relatability. Listen to Cavino en Rich five days a week on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Covino en Rich give me the hell. Yeah. Aaron Rodgers was on a podcast of Somebody Who's a philosopher and no laughing, nothing wrong with philosophers. That's a major in college. You can major in philosophy. There's nothing wrong with that. Aaron puts it out there all the time. So he was talking about being doubted before. He was talking on this Aubrey Marcus podcast. He's been doubted before, and here you go, I've been doubted before. And look, honestly, I felt in the first year that Matt was here, Matt was in Green Bay in nineteen I felt at times like a game manager, like it was just I didn't quite understand what we were doing at times on offense. And my job is to take care of the football, and I did you know, I threw four interceptions and twenty six touchdowns and we were thirteen and three, but I felt like there was so much more. And you know, then they drafted my replacement and then I went MVP twise and I threw eighty five touchdowns and nine interceptions in two years. And obviously there were some changes that happen on the team and the coaching staff, and I didn't have my best of your plan. And there's probably people that think I'm done by the way. I like his honesty, and that'll make somebody in Green Bay uncomfortable, and I'm okay with discomfort, but it should be noted pre Matt Lafleur, Aaron was ten, twelve and one. In his previous twenty three games with Matt Lafleur and having less control, he was thirteen and three, and then thirteen and three and then thirteen and three. So Matt Lafleur, bringing from Tennessee a bit of a run influence, has been wildly successful, and Aaron, with less leverage and less control, has been wildly successful MVPs. This year, they paid Aaron, he had allotted off season, he had more leverage and power, and he wasn't very good. So when he had power with McCarthy at the end and was rolling his eyes and blowing off plays, Aaron wasn't very good. It was a bad version of Aaron. And then Lafleur said more of a run influen, managed the game at times instead of ad libbing, and he went thirty nine and nine. And this year, again Aaron had more power, they ran less. Remember the big complaint about green Bay this year early on was got Aaron Rodgers and Aaron Jones use them both, and they didn't run the ball until late in the year when they played better and went on a winning streak. So the truth is they have been with Matt Lafleur a better team, and they were better early with Mike McCarthy when Aaron had less power, when Aaron wasn't making any money early they were really really good. And then when Aaron didn't have the control with Matt Lafloor, they were really really good. This year, he got paid, he had money, he had leverage, he had power, didn't show up in the off season. He had his worst year in a long time. So it's as long as he can be honest about that. Is that, you know, Aaron shouldn't have too much power. He's not Mahomes, he's not Josh Allen. I don't think he's borrow. He has a he's aged fine, but not giving him ultimate power has been very good for Aaron Rodgers. It's been very good by the way his Super Bowl winning year, they had a run game that flourished at the end of the season. This year, when they started using Aaron Jones less relying on Aaron Rodgers, they were very good. At the end of the season. They were bad early one more. Heard The Herd streams twenty four hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you like interesting team. He led the Tea Wolves to the playoffs last year, got a big win last night against the Clippers. Chris Finch has been around this league for a long time. The Tea Wolves coach. It's an absolute pleasure to have you. And what's fascinating about you is your team went out and a lot of people didn't get it, but you brought in Rudy Gobert. You had a big in Carl Anthony Towns, you have an emerging young star in Anthony Edwards, and then at the trading deadline, you bring in one of the smarter guys in the league, like a real grown up, Mike Conley. You're juggling of them. You are juggling stuff NonStop. So I want to I want to start with that premise. Is the trading deadline's interesting? I made the argument that Westbrook and Kyrie are such defined players with styles it may have been the wrong move to inject them into a team at the deadline. Conley is different. Yeah. Um, he's really like a mentor, one of the smartest guys. You can bring him, I think, kind of into any situation. So how do you see Conley aunt Edwards? Because right now, Anthony Edwards, I'm is he lost? Where where are you with him? Yeah? I don't think he's lost at all. I think this is just another evolution of his growth. Um, just you know, now, just you know, facing so many different defenses, don't many different looks, all this kind of stuff. I mean, he's got to keep figuring out Miche alongside of him is going to help him. Uh, the real one of the real reasons that you're bringing a guy like Mike at this point is when we get Kat back and we have Aunt. You know, he's the we feel he's the perfect bridge between those guys, as well as bringing an existing chemistry with Rudy Gobert, which is a guy we still have yet to really maximize as a player. And to your point, you know about the trade deadline and bringing players like the our season has been won in flux through injuries or illnesses, and that's that's kind of the league nowadays. I think as a coach, if you don't maintain a flexible enough system to keep integrating all the roster changes that you have, whether it be load management or injuries or illnesses or trades or whatnot, it you know, it becomes really really hard. But fortunately, like we've got enough guys who are able to play in a lot of different styles and that helps us. And by the way, we love Anthony Edwards. But I said this earlier today. In college football, you can get a twenty four year old man and he's been hard coached for four to five years. He may have red shirted. Yeah, you get an au kid where he may not have been coached for years, and then one year briefly of college and then he's onto you at nineteen. And so we we want our players to be great and defined they're kids, and so with Anthony Edwards, he got a lot. He was enormously gifted. Year one, year two were like, what happened? He just appeared? Where is he in terms of there's some hero ball going on. What is it hard for you to coach younger players? Yeah, um no, it's not hard at all to coach younger players. I'm the ones we have are for unfortunate. They like to be coached hard. They respond well to being coached hard. You know, I think Anthony's had a really good year Year three for him, It's been a lot about building habits, you know, not just about what you're doing on the floor, but what habits are you building as a professional. How you eat, how you work, how you prepare, how you sleep. These are things that most young players don't come in the league with, and teaching those habits is just as much a part of our job as a staff in an organization as it is teaching him skill and skill acquisition. Yeah, so I I'm very pleased with with Anthony's growth. Like he plays you know, if you say hero ball, he doesn't shy away from the moment, you know, and that's what we love about him. Yeah, and then last year in the playoffs, going into the playoffs, I had a little concerns that he would try to do too much UM and from that maybe not have success. But he met the moment there, and you know, he still has some inconsistencies he's got to work out, and that's again backed up by just getting better and better habits. UM. He'll even admit to you that he's out there just playing a lot of times he's not thinking through the game. And that doesn't mean he's unintelligent. It just means he's just relying on his instinct. And he's young, and he's young, and now it's just about getting enough reps in enough situations where he can see it and bringing in a guy like Mike who's like in his ear right now next to him, and Mike understands that. You know, He's got a lot of um things that we need him to do. But first and foremost is help Anthony to develop as a player. You mentioned load management. He and I are on different sides. So Jason McIntyre believes that the reason guys play longer now is because they take nights off. I think it's because of nutrition, you know, the private jets, the training staffs now. And it's also not a hand check league. You don't get tackled. What bothers me because I'm an NBA fans. A couple of nights ago, I want to watch Janis and KD they both don't play. And there was a game a couple of weeks ago Celtics Lakers Saturday Night was fantastic. All the starters play that I recall and it was like, oh, okay, this is feel like a playoff game. So whether you love it or not, you don't you don't want to play at four thirty, tell you don't want to play. But where do you land on load management? Yeah? I mean it's a necessary evil in our game. And you know, the one of the fastest growing departments in professional sports is the performance department, you know, with sports scientists and all the people that are now giving us so much data about resting and recovering and being ready to play. Um, you know, I personally, uh, you know, obviously we have to lean into what they say. It's not our decision as coaches. Um, we want to we want to push our players to play. Anthony's a great example. Anthony's played every every game this season, you know, and we feel that that matters, and particularly as a young player. Unfortunately, in our league, and I've said this before, resting has become a bit of a status symbol. You're so good that they don't want to play you tonight because they need you later. H Well, you're a team like ours, your five hundred and you're fighting for your life. You got play every night, and that's really what the league should be all about anyway. Um, And so you know, uh, we understand like there's nights that you're gonna you know, the guys might not be one hundred percent, but give us, you know, as much as you got. And you know, the thing that we can do to maybe alleviate that is to continue to thin the back to backs. Let's take away the excuses for guys to not play in back to backs. Happen to be a big one. I'm going having beers with buddies tonight. I'm gonna play hurt Tom, are you Jay? I'm just telling you right, Now I'm gonna go meet my buddies for la bola post and a beer. You gotta play. Sometimes you gotta play her bad night's sleep. Okay. So when you I argue that this is the greatest the league's ever been, now you're balancing some science stuff and some analytics. Well, whenever I hear guys don't play defense, I always kind of roll my eyes and think, yeah, but the game is so international and European and so global. You're getting guys now every big can shoot. It's added a complete dimension. How do you defend the corner three? It's when the Warriors had Durant. I don't know how you defend it. Since you've been in the league, is that Warrior's team with Durant the greatest team you've seen? Yeah? Probably, you know, just the gravity of putting that many skilled players that but shooting on the floor. I think that's the league has never been as skilled with as much shooting as ever, and it makes the defense look at times, you know, pretty mediocre. Yeah, it's really about trying to cover as much space as possible and you can't. You know, it's like spread offense in football. How do you cover it all? When you give optionality to really good and skilled quarterbacks, it's impossible, right, that's right, um and so now and they take it away a lot of the physicality, which we see come back during the playoffs, but during the regular season, the physicality is not there to be able to slow these guys. Ask these guys to play any two nights of Purdue basketball, Yeah exactly, yeah, so um, but I think the game is fluid. It's kind of back to the To me, it's back to the closer to its roots. It's interchangeable parts, positionless players, ball movement, player movement, and you know, and Steve Kurry kur and um, you know his staff and the Golden State Warriors are really kind of they were at the forefront of that revolution. And like most leagues, it's a copycat league and everybody wants to play that way when they see success. Well, if if I'm gonna say, I'm gonna give you a coach that you go up against and guys that I like. I don't know Eric Spolster really well, but I know him. If I say Spolstrug, give me a paragraph on what what he is and what makes him hard to coach against. I mean is their teams play super physical, never beat themselves. They they you know what they're gonna do. They do it so well that it still matters. You know, you can't really impact it. UM. I always say whenever you play a spoke coach team, the first time you play him, that you know, you learn a lot and and you learn quickly and they pretty much beat you up. Um when you go out and play him again, you know, it's all about making adjustments. UM. And you know obviously his outstanding end of game situational rate. Yeah, he's a great situational coach. Steve Kerr, Yeah, Steve, Uh, you know I think, UM when I when we play those what he did is he really kind of just changed the entire way that team played when he came in. Um. Gives a lot of freedom to his players. Um as you see. UM. But you know he's a lot more firing competitive than you would think, and that I think is infused through his team. Yes, So I want to ask you about a player. So I have been very reluctant to embrace Denver. He likes Denver and I know Yokich is great hard guy to defense. You remember Sabonis, So I covered Sibonis for years outside of Shack, everybody struggled with him. He was a refrigerator. You couldn't move him. Shack was the only guy, and Shack moved everybody. Yokich has a little bit of a feel like that tremendous passer Big Iq doesn't want to doesn't need all the accolades, couldn't give a rip. I worry about him defensively. I worry about if he's offered gets in foul trouble, who's the two m Draymond's defense and the tricks don't work against him? Am I underselling Denver? Do you buy them as a playoff team? Oh? Yeah, for sure, buy him as a playoff team. I think, uh, you know, when you have a guy like Yo Kichum, you know you're always going to have a chance. He just he's a big recently generates so much offense all by himself, for himself and for everybody else. Of course, the key is, you know, in the playoffs, everyone wants to kind of muddy up the game. They're gonna go small. But the key to being and staying big when teams go small in the playoffs is I think scoring. You know, can the big punish the smalls enough in the playoffs, and he's going to be able to do that. So that's why some of these teams that that traditionally maybe have gone small in the playoffs to have great success, whether it be Golden State or the Clippers, you know, they might struggle and they're gonna have to bring double teams and bring in a double team to a guy who's that good of a passer is not always the best thing to do either. I think the best team in the league, and I think by adding Jay Crowder, they add another get a bucket guy. I think Milwaukee is gonna beat Boston. I worry sometimes with Boston if if Jayalen Brown's off, it becomes very Tatum centric. Marcus Smarts a solid offensive player, Robert william health concerns me. I think I think Milwaukee's really a handful. Uh. It very rarely is Jannis off, but it's Middleton, it's Ingles, Uh, it's Drew Holliday. It's just a lot of Golden State's got disquality. Now that Jordan Toole can be a bucket guy, Wiggins can um I the best team I've seen on their best nights in the league to me is Milwaukee. You faced them, your your opinion on them? Yeah, well they and they're not even healthy. I mean they have Middleton who's still working his way back, you know, So I I you know, I agree, And they've got the experience of playing together that Nucleus has been together. Um, you know, they played both sides of the ball for sure. Um you know Ingles is going to help them with his playmaking and defensive versatility in the playoffs. I mean, I think I couldn't agree more. It's gonna be interesting for sure. Um, you know, both teams are kind of very physical. Um, you know, you know a lot of the East is a little more intriguing maybe in the West right now when when it's the top of the table. Yeah, and it's a fun one to watch, but you know it's hard to go against Jannis. I mean, the guy is like superhuman when you're out there, insane. So you you coached a d you were on Alvin Gentry staff. I like him, But I do think I think some players age more quickly than others. I thought about three years ago that was the ceiling. There's been some slight erosion when you play with Lebron Kevin Love and Bosch discovered this. This has always been my theory on Lebron is that Lebron doesn't want his big to get in the middle of the lane because if when he loses confidence on his jumper, he wants to go to the basket, score at the basket, he'll get the confidence back. But he can ebb and flow as a jump shooter with confidence. He's gone on. I mean even this year, he's had moments. And so Anthony Davis, unlike Bosch or Love, is not a great shooter. Those guys are really tremendous. I don't know if A D and Lebron have great chemistry. I think they're both chill guys that they just they both want to win games. What did you make of a d He had a soft label for a while. How what's the perfect way to use him? Yeah, I mean, one thing I love about ad is like he'll get you thirty five points and you don't have to run a single play for him. You know, he'll he'll he'll he'll score always that you possibly can. He'll get out in transition, he'll make an occasional three, he'll get a rim ra you know, lob dunk offensive rebound, make an elbow jumper, you can throw it to him in the post. And I think, you know, if just playing kind of in the flow and not trying to force feed him and ask him to be a score, I think is that when he's at his best, you know, because he can. He's really long, athletic, he's super skilled, he's got great touch. And when he's like kind of playing just in the on the move and you know, fill in space and playing off of guys, that's when I think he's really really hard to guard because he can do all these things and you really don't have to call his number. You'd coached Harden on the McHale staff. By the way, I just got done watching three part series on Delta Lakers Celtics eighties because you seen that. Yes, yeah, it is unbelievable. Yeah, it's so I just forget they brought Walton back. Yeah, oh yeah. That was one of the great teams. So when you have hardened, very ball centric, very gifted, um, it's and I think Dallas is going through a little bit of this with Luca. You're talking in a prolific, top ten scoring talent of all time, Kobe with a lot of this, Um, how do you have a discussion with a hardener Luca in their prime? If you play this way, you're going to be exhausted by the playoffs. You have the ball too much. Was it a challenge with Harden because he would get to the pole season and he looks shot? Yeah? Is it a challenge you think for Dallas or when you you've been with one of those all time. You couldn't stop Harden, you can't stop Luca? Yeah, yeah, I think the for me, the challenges this like when you have a guy who's kind of that ball dominant and that's you know, can create that much offense and so much relies on him. Um, they those teams, those those types of players can make average teams really good. But how do you make a good team great? And that's all about sharing the floor, you know. How do you share the floor with the talent that's around you? You know? And what sacrifices do you make? Because again in the playoffs, which everything gets ramped up in the playoffs, as it does all in all these sports, and the ref swallow the whistle, the ref swall of the whistle, the game planning goes to another level. Adjustments come a lot faster. You know, as a staff, we have a hard line on what we're willing to live with, what we're not willing to live with, And at that point in time, you know, it's a lot easier to say this guy is not going to beat us, because you know, if you take away hit his impact, which is ninety percent of the game. You know, now the team has to play in a wholly different way than they've done all season long. Yeah, it is. And you have a fascinating team. So you've got guys who are not as gifted offensively, go bear, but you need to figure out a way to get them the ball. Yeah, you have an ascending superstar. You have a veteran guy in Mike Conley, and then you have Carl Anthony Towns who is gifted as heck. You can drive me not sometime situationally, but it feels like your team that it's not a talent issue. It is a lot of personalities. Yeah, is that? I always said Joe Torry, I didn't know if he was a great baseball manager, but he was the step dad you never wanted to tick off. So we could balance Jeter and a Rod and egos and the media your team feels like there's a lot of personalities, age gaps, international, domestic. Is it a hard team to coach the balance? Yeah, I mean when you put it that way, it seems like it would be hard. But unfortunately they're all good guys, you know, and they want to make it work. But we do have a lot of different players at different points in their career or as we talk about how their timeline and what timeline are we on here, And but I also know feel that the pieces do fit together. We've not really seen what we can do because of the because of the cat injury. We've played forty five games without him. We do know that there is a good chemistry between Kat and Rudy Um and in the Rudy trade Listen, when when you're best player at the time is Karl Anthony Towns. You're not gonna go small. You're not taking him off the floor. So we thought, well, the less rest of the league is you know, zigging. We might zag and see if it works. Like you know, we we're probably not better as a small ball team than the Golden States of the world, so let's try to be different. And Rudy was a guy who who basically plugged a lot of needs and we feel that he has done the great job in that and now it's just rounding out those pieces around um that fit with the you know, with Rudy, Kat and Aunt and that's really, you know, our core that we're prepared to move forward with. Okay, So Draymond Green, he uh, strangely, I have a podcast company and he's one of my employees. He's very coachable. Yeah, way incredibly coachable. He's a great employee. He drives people crazy. So I always like that guy. Uh. There was a guy named Bobby Jones who was a much better offensive player than like a Dennis Rodman, but he was just Jerry He Sloan had this element. It's just a pain in the body guard Agen and Rodman and Draymond Green. Coaching against Draymond Green. Does he drive you insane? Do you Where do you land on Draymond? I mean he's a great player as a winner, He's one of the all time winners that we've had in the league. You know, he does all the things necessary to win and also cements that team together. You know, he's happy to walk away with fourteen assists if that's what it takes or you know, guard the best player every night, or he's always in the right help spot. It feels like when you're playing the Warriors, there's two Draymonds out there. There's the one that's guarding the ball and there's the one that's guarding everybody else, you know, and so for a long long time if you don't have the right personnel and you go up against those guys and having Draymond on the floor, he's so smart defensively, he literally is like having a sixth man out there. And by the way, if you ever had a teleplayer. Okay, we're playing Draymond tonight, do not let him get in your head. Oh for sure. I mean I've seen, I mean I've been in games where he's gotten into people's heads and taking him right out of the game really and usually after they've had, you know, a little bit of their way with them, so then he just moves to the psychological warfare. He's so good. Yeah, Chris, what a pleasure to have you, And you're always welcome on our show. J Mac your sixth grade team, did you pick up any pointers here? There's a real pro lots of stuff, you know, He's i don't know about the originator of it, but putting a big man at the elbow and having him operate. I was watching a lot of the plays on YouTube that you drew up. Really smart stuff, obviously, Well appreciate that when you have. I've been lucky to work with good skilled bigs. I work with Yokich in Denver as well, and you know Anthony Davis, Anthony Davis, Yeah, so, DeMarcus Cousins. So and when you always got to try to, you know, play through your best players, no matter where they are or who they are. Yeah, great meat. Yeah, yeah, appreciate thanks for having me on. Of course, congrats on the win over the Clippers. Thank you, Chris Finch T Wolves. If you're not a fan, you should be