Thanks for listening to the Best of Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from twelve to three eastern, nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS one. Find your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd. This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowhern on Fox Sports Radio. Here we go. Welcome in Monday Night football over time to talk about it now on Tuesday live in Los Angeles. It's the Herd wherever you may be and however you may be listening iHeartRadio, Fox Sports Radio and FS one. One hour from now. Will the Jaguars make the Herd hierarchy? Will the Packers make the Herd hierarchy? Our top ten NFL teams? It is great to have you and j Max. So this is It's your typical Cowboys standalone Monday night football game. They win. Everybody's very excited. Cooper Rush look fantastic. He's not making mistakes. Call him all you need him to do. We liked the Cowboys yesterday. That was whow We liked the Cowboys to win. So let's start the show talking about that. If you are a Cowboy fan, you shouldn't feel pretty good. Let's be honest. You were on the road and it was about as revved up as a New York crowd has been in a long time. You had a backup quarterback, You didn't play great football, tons of penalties, Ceedee Lamb dropped a pass probably would have been a touchdown. Old line's still not healthy. I mean you're using backups and in division you won. So let's start with that. Anytime you would back to back games with a backup quarterback, especially on the road, feels great. Also, the pass rush against the Bengals and the Giants, that is now an area of strength. DeMarcus Lawrence Michael Parsons was about seventy great pass rush against the Baals against the Giants, that is clearly now an area of strength. I think it's the strength of the team. But this is a four or five year trend. We talked about this with Green Bay. You roll a couple of dysfunctional Indivision teams like the Giants and Washington. Here comes Washington for the Cowboys and they're going to roll them, and the fans buy in, oh man, this team is but you look around and you think to yourself, I've been watching this for four or five years, and Green Bay we talked about this. Dallas and Green Bay are these massive brands make us feel good about the NFL. They got a lot of fans that didn't even grow up there, so they make a lot of noise. And they've got a couple of wildly dysfunctional teams in their organization, in their division, the Lions and the Bears, and every time they have a bad game, they just happen to be playing one of those teams off in at Lambeau. And the network puts it on because the network loves Green Bay and they love the rivalry with the Bears, so they put it on television and they roll. And the networks love the Cowboys and Giants, and oh that's gonna get a ray. You get New York's media market and the big star with the Cowboys, and they roll them every time because the Giants are dysfunctional, and so this is the reality of what happens. Networks put the Packers and the Cowboys on these standalone games with their dysfunctional in division rivals, and you forget about what they look like. Two weeks ago or three weeks ago. I mean, this is the seventh straight divisional win for the Cowboys. If you take out the Dak injured year, the Cowboys are twenty and four in their division since twenty seventeen. And they're often on television and they're off in the Sunday night game or the Monday night game, or the or the Big Fox game. There are the nation's watching. They're dysfunctional. Thesion. The networks love the Cowboys giants. You get the New York market, you get the Cowboys. They love the Packers, Bears, you get the Chicago market. But we know the Packers and the Cowboys in the last ten years, they always feel like they kind of come up short. But they're fans. Everybody for Dallas is buying in this morning. And I'm sorry. I'm an outsider, so I'm sorry if I cannot put you in the class or the Bills or the Ravens or the Rams or the Chiefs, I can't do it. I mean, you got to feel good about winning on the road when you dropped the touchdown, you had a backup quarterback. It was a hostile environment. But boy, does this feel like a rinse and repeat to me, not to be mister negative, but yes they rolled the Giants, and yes the Packers roll the Bears, but neither one of them has a quarterback that will probably be playing in their city in three years, two years, or for Daniel Jones, maybe next year. Mike McCarthy after just love the division. When the complimentary football that we played today, you know, it's it's always refreshing. You know, a long week, and you know you come up here and you know you're in a hotel all day. But I just think our guys did a really good job executing a game plan, staying after it, and but yes, I mean excellent win on the road, pass rush excellent. Micah Parsons star Ceedee Lamb has star potential. Trayvon Diggs similarly. But again, I cautioned Packer fans after clabbering the Bears, and I'll caution Cowboy fans after rolling the New York Giants. We went on this thing for like seven years, standalone Giant Cowboy game, standalone Packer Bear game. We know who wins, we know the reaction at the end of the year. We also know the result disappointment. All right, let's talk New York Giants listen. First of all, the crowd was great. I've said it, it's just better when the Yankees win. Baseball is better when the Yankees win, even the second team in town, when the Mets win, it's fun. It's better when the Knicks win. The Gardens electric. That crowd last night was great. New York is football starved. Here's the good news. I think I don't know, but I think you've got the right coach. He's an offensive coach. He's authentic, he's relatable, he has a track record of making quarterbacks better. So I think you have the right coach, and I know of all the boxes you have to check in the NFL, you got the left tackle right. The rest of the old line stinks, but you got the left tackle right. And I think you got the head coach right. So in all the things you have to check, the seven or eight boxes you have to check in the NFL, culture coach, quarterback, you've got an I think, and an I know, and that's it. You don't have to have a great running back and say Quan's really good. But you can keep making excuses, Well, the offensive line wasn't good. Josh Allen's until this year, offensive line wasn't very good. He made plays, He got into the end zone. Until this year, I didn't like the Bill's offensive line. Well as we're fivers are dropping the ball. The receiving crews not good. Lamar Jackson would be MVP today. He lost Hollywood Brown. Great quarterbacks make stuff happen. I've seen Daniel Jones. He's fourteen and twenty six. Go ahead and keep blaming the offensive line. Last year, Lamar Jackson lost Ronnie Stanley, three running backs, and Baltimore was the number one seed before Lamar Jackson got hurt, Josh Allen came into this league. He still doesn't have a dependor running game. Still, the offensive line the first three years was a mess. He got into the end zone. Daniel Jones is one of those guys where if the protection is perfect, where nobody drops and he passes, when it's a clean pocket, when everything's lined up and every player's lined up, he's okay. That's not the NFL. It's like when you hire a babysitter. Yes, if my children were always well behaved when they were five, it would be perfect. But one of them will light something on fire. Somebody will run out in the yard and you'll have to find him. One will bring a big snake into the basement. If you're a babysitter and have five year old kids, it's not gonna be perfect unless they go to bed by the time you get there. See, you better get a good babysitter. It's the same with a quarterback. I was talking to Joe Burrow yesterday afternoon. He's like, you go to the line. One of the receivers is in the wrong space, left guard misses his assignment. You got an audible at the line because the protection's not set for the play. You'll look at the clock. You're on the road in New York and it's down to four. Make it happen. Lamar does, Josh Allen does, Joe Burrow does. Joe Burrows protection stunt call. Last year he got to the Super Bowl. He got sacked fifty one times or was it seventy one or was it one hundred and one? He got to the Super Bowl justin Herbert set rook Key records his first year the second worst offensive line in the league. It's one thing if you're Dak and you walk in and Zeke's a rookie in the old line's amazing, and you got Jason Garrett an offensive coach, and you go thirteen and three in the world's perfect. How do the Cowboys look now? The offensive line's a mass and Amari Cooper has gone and Zeke is washed. That's what you need at quarterback. Yes, Brian Dables getting the most out of him. Yes, receivers dropped the ball. Yes, outside of left tackle, the offensive line is dubious. Look at what Lamar's facing week to week. Good God, Matt Stafford right now, Andrew Whitworth retires, They're very good. Center's gone, ob j that didn't resign him, Alan Robinson as he washed, cam Akers keeps fumbling and they win. I mean you're looking, yes, when things are all perfect and the pocket is clean and you have time to well, that receiver fell. You have receivers fall all the time, and that receiver dropped a pass. Do you know in the last four years what quarterback has dealt with the most drops? Patrick Mahomes Brady second drops are part of it. Oline missqs in inefficiencies are part of it. You gotta make plays, you gotta get into the end zone. So the good news is I think Dable's the right guy, and he'll get the best out of Daniel Jones. But when everything works perfectly on a play, it's okay, It's okay, here's Brian Dable after I thought he did a good job keeping his eyes down feel when he could get out. You know, he made a couple of plays there at the end. You know that we couldn't quite convert on hit some drop passes. You know the last play that that Digs picked off Stills fell down and it was a timing throw. Again, I was, you know, I think he's making progress. You know, it's tough after loss. You know, nobody did well enough and well understand that. Yes, he's making progress. I hope so he finally has a competent coach. I don't care about progress. I don't care about making progress. Make plays, get into the end zone. Lamar does. Three running backs, hurt, left tackle gone, best receiver leaves right now. I'd be the MVP last year was the number one seed before he got hurt. Josh Allen's first two years, they still don't have a running game. Zone line was a mess. First two years in he was from Wyoming. He didn't even play in a power five Conference. He didn't. The speed of the game was like lightning to him, and he just made plays. It's some, but I mean, we don't even know if Cliffs Kingsbury can coach three years. Boom boom boom boom boom. Kder got better stumbling this year, but boom boom boom boom boom got better. But but but making progress, that's a given. That's like saying, you know, I bought a house and the roof doesn't leak. Make Look at Jalen Hurts his progress. Nobody's talking about Jalen Hurts making progress. You know what we're talking about. Damn he's good. Damn he makes plays. Why are we get to the end zone. I'm not interested in your progress. I'm interested in making plays. And he's a guy, Okay, nice guy, like old guy, probably a backup guy. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays and noon Easter nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app. DeVante Adams was a packer, and there's an argument to be made. I would buy into it that he's as good a receiver as the league has. He's really really good, and he and Aaron Rodgers. For the last two or three years, it was like that was the couple, Like that was the quarterback receiver combo. They did the back shoulder, they liked each other, they were trust a ball. He's really hard working, and then he decides to go to the Raiders. You know, he played college football. Derek Carr Vegas. There's a lot more to do closer to family. I got it, you know, I get it, and I think I still think it'll be fine. But he talked over the weekend. He is frustrated and angry how things are working out for him. Frustrated and angry spect more. I mean, it's not easy to win his league. So we know that, and we you know, nobody's knife to the fact that it's not. Nobody's just gonna lay down and just give you a victory. But any day we expect more and we we'll do better before Okay, this is early in the process, and there's no right or wrong here. First of all, they may have been one of those combos where nobody wins the divorce. I mean, Green Bay has one touchdown in the second half in three games. One they need him. The reigning MVPR and Rodgers. The Packers are twenty seventh in scoring, behind the Jets, behind the Texans. It's like Green Bay was way better with him, and they were a way more lethal team in the second half with him. When a rolling out stuff breaks down and you just need a trustable dude. But Davante Adams chose a perpetually poorly run franchise with a head coach who had failed his previous gig, with a less talented quarterback. Though I like Derek Carr and a historically battle line you have to go back to, like the seventies or eighties since we last loved the Raiders offensive line. So now this wasn't Kevin Durant leaving the Warriors. The Packers aren't the Warriors title wise, but it was taking a step back in organizational functionality. So again, let's contextualize it. I think it'll work out, Aaron's gonna win a bunch of games. Car and Davante are going to be just fine eventually. But when I chose Fox Sports, I considered everything, and if you consider the Raiders over the Packers, you have to consider everything, and the Raiders over the last several years turmoil, stranger things, weirdness in stability. It's part of the everything. It's part of their everything. And so and I think Davante Adams did something that I've warned people about. Maybe I've made this mistake sometimes I don't know. I don't think I have. But he tried to get happier than happy. I mean Green Bay with Aaron Rodgers in that easy division, making all that money the packers were going to pay him, that's pretty good. That's a pretty good life. There's a worse life than playing with Aaron Rodgers in a lousy division making a lot of money. I mean, Davante is not a party guy. It's quiet town. He's not out there, you know. I mean, this guy's total pro putting in the hours, head down, working by himself. He not worried too much about the lights of Vegas. Right. Like, he had a really happy life. I've seen this before. Carmelo Anthony was in Denver. They got to the Western Conference final. He was the star. He got all the press, he got all the love, the fans loved him. They won, and he's like, I want to get happier and went the knicks his career. I mean it was going like this in nenver a good roster, and I saw by the way we've seen this with Kevin durant is winning titles, steps like you take the game winning shot, and Kevin Durant's like I'm happy, I'm won't get happier. It's hard and so again there is no winner and loser here. Green Bay. Obviously, their second half numbers will tell you. Davante and Aaron were great off script where they could look at each other and they just knew this is the back shoulder. Aaron doesn't trust those young receivers and they may never have that ability, so they're not the Green Bay is not nearly as frightening to play if you leave Green Bay in the second half of a football game. They don't have that cleanup hitter. They just don't. Aaron didn't trust his receivers, and I don't think going from Green Bay and their high functionality, they're not perfect, but it's a pretty well run operation. To the Raiders, it or everything is gonna be bumpy. If you look at the Raiders schedule, here's the good news. By mid to late October, you do have some games where it could get a little easier. Opening up at the Chargers Tennessee, Arizona. Now you got Denver at the Chiefs. We probably could have predicted this. I picked the Raiders for fourth. It was gonna be a really rough September and early October. But there's some not layups. But you do got Houston, Indianapolis, Seattle, New England's offense. There's some stuff around the corner where you can get right, and I think eventually they will offensively be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays and noon Easter nini Empacific. I like data, and I'm kind of a nerd that way, and I like finding trends, and I'm always reading lists and studies and trends. So the Patriots, according to sources, mac Jones is going to be out for a month high ankle sprain. Really ugly, pretty predictable mess in New England. Right well, we all everybody kind of felt like, outside of like diehard Patriots fan, this isn't gonna work. Defensive coordinator too, offensive coordinator Joe Judge, maybe calling plays. This isn't gonna work, especially with the young quarterback who needs the feel and the touch and the support. So the mac Jones thing obvious. I went and looked this morning the seven lowest rated passers in the NFL, and I want it for our radio audience. I'm gonna read this seven lowest rated. Jamis Winston defensive coach, Joe Flacco defensive coach, Davis Mills defensive coach, Mitch Trubisky defensive coach, Matt Ryan offensive coach. They showed life last week, Mac Jones defensive coach, Justin Fields defensive coach. I'm on this for two years now. It's not a coincidence. Okay, Mac Jones without Josh McDaniels, an offensive guy has regressed badly. He's awful. Now. Justin Fields has twenty three completions in three games. Yet, Who's exploded? Trevor Lawrence, new offensive coach, exploded, Tua new offensive coach, exploded, Jalen Hurts, same offensive coach, growing, ascending, exploding. I set up with the Jets Robert Sala, unproven defensive coach with a kid from BYU. Whoa Woa woa whoa. That is a huge risk for the record. Jamis Winston last year with Sean Payton, a one oh two passer raiding A few months later with a defensive coach he's a disaster passer rating in the high seventies. So there are two major fundamental changes that have happened in football America at every level safety because of the Here are the two big changes, because of the lawsuit for CTE. Because of the safety concerns. High school football, you're hitting less. College football, they'll throw you out of games. If you hit a game high, hit a guy high, they'll throw you right out of the games. NFL, you can't hit quarterbacks. Now, you can't hit anybody over the middle. What does that mean? The game has gotten more finesse, more offensive leaning. What does that mean? This is the second part. Players and kids always see the trends early. They're on social they're talking to friends. The two positions now in football, high school, college and pro that are exploding with talent quarterback and wide receiver. You get the fame, you get the girls, you get the money, and you can't hit them. You can't hit receivers anymore. You can't hit quarterbacks. So I get the big money, I get the endorsements, I get the fame. You can't hit me. You go look at high school recruiting in California over the last five years, there's no running backs available. The state produces no running backs. If you go look at twenty twenty four rivals recruiting of the top hundred players, I swear to god, they're thirty five receivers and ten quarterbacks. Like nobody wants to play in the interior aline, nobody wants to be running back. So we got these big, big cultural changes. The best athletes that want to play football, they want to play two positions. And if they can't play quarterback they're a big guy, or they're not talented enough to play wide receiver, then they want to play corner or edge rusher because you can get sacks, you can get fame. And I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm just saying this is what I'm not saying it's a bad thing. If I was a young sixteen year old that was talented, I want to play quarterback and wide receiver. I don't get hit and I have a chance to play longer and get the money. Of course I want to play that position. I could have been a sportswriter. I chose radio and TV. Like I get it. Part of the reason was I thought it was a cooler job, so I think when you start looking around this league. Right now, the seven lowest passer ratings are six defensive coaches. Rules have changed because of fear. Roger Goodell's biggest fear is a death on the field. They are taken away big hits in college, they're taking them away in the NFL. Concussions. Moms don't want their young boys to play football right in some parts of the country. So it's like, let's make the game safer. You got seven on seven leagues. You got flag football leagues everywhere. And what it means is more offense, more great quarterbacks, more passing, more star wide receivers. That's why betting's gotten harder. I was talking to a gambling guy a couple of weeks ago. I said, it used to be if you had a ten point lead with five and a half to go, you won the bet, you won the game. Teams can catch up so fast now because the wider receiver. Cincinnati's got two star receivers. The Buccaneers, when they're healthy, have three or four. That's never the way it was. It was like Jerry Rice played for the Niners. He was great. At one point they even had John Taylor a second good receiver San Francisco. Now Deebo's a star, Brandon i Yuks a star, George Kittle's a star. This Danny Gray kid could be a star. People like Jennings. Teams have three and four and five targets and it's only going to explode. So that's why I say you hire Robert Sala Matt Eberflus. I'm not saying they can't coach. Good luck, especially with a young quarterback. Maybe it's different if you have Peyton Manning in his thirteenth year or Brady and his fifty Brady with Todd Bowles, that's fine. Tom's got his way of doing business. That's okay. That's fine to me. Tom Brady with a defensive coach. By the way, Josh Allen is at a point in his career now he's been here four or five years. Defensive guy, you just need a good coach. You know, you get to a point in your career. You know, Patrick Mahomes at this point, if he gave him a defensive head coach, he's still gonna be fine. But those first two three and a half years, you give a young guy a defensive coach, you lose the offensive coordinator. It is punitive. Hey, what's up everybody. It's me three time pro bowler Levarrington and I couldn't be more excited to announce a new podcast called Up on Game. What is up on Game? You asked, along with my fellow pro bowler t J. Hudshman's outa and Super Bowl champion. Yep, that's right, Plexico Burrs. You can only name a show with that type of talent on it. Up on Game We're going to be sharing our real life experiences loaded with teachable moments. Listen to Up on Game with Me LeVar Arrington, t J. Huschman, Zatta and Plexico Birds on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast from. Heard Hierarchy. The top ten NFL teams according to College number ten. All right, don't sell your Minnesota Vikings stock. They have the Saints and the Bears coming up. They're gonna get really, really healthy. Their only loss came on the road to the Eagles, and a lot of people think the Eagles are the best team in the league. Now. Their defense is an issue. They hired an offensive coach, they have regressed offensively. They're given up like four hundred and fifteen yards a game. Don't don't sell all your stock here. They're gonna get healthy. Schedule lightens up. They didn't thump the Packers. Vikings at ten, number nine, the Rams, I have them lower than everybody else. I think they're sloppy. I think they are missing their center downgrade at left tackle. Cam Akers fumbled again at the goal line. Is Alan Robinson washed? He can't get open Van Jefferson's out for another month and a half now. Matthew Stafford has a lot of picks, but he also leads the NFL completing seventy two percent of his throw So Efford gives you. You get the penthouse in the outhouse. It's the classic. You get great and you get some trouble. But they're given the ball away this year. Seven giveaways through three games. They're too sloppy. I think they're head coach and culture is winning games right now, they're not right. The fact they're in the top ten, and I think they've got a million questions speaks to how good McVeigh and the overall culture of the organization is. I have them nine, number eight and inch behind the Bucks. Bucks are gonna be really good. They're just not healthy here, say no. The Bucks are good. Number one scoring defense in the NFL and the most takeaways in the NFL. So the side that Brady doesn't play for is nails. They're gonna be really good, top three four team in the league. They're just not healthy. I took them this week, and then I found out Mike Evans and Julio Jones could also not play. If they were healthy, they would have beaten the Packers. They were missing Evans, Goodwin, Julio Jones. Come on, you can't take away the three best receivers for a team and ask them to beat a competent quarterback. A competent team like Green Bay. Bucks are fine number seven, but I like the Niners roster more. The Niners offense is the only had two three and outs all year the whole season with Trey Lanton Garoppolo. How good is their personnel? Only two three and outs all year, lowest percentage in the NFL. Also, their defense the only team in the league holding people under four yards of play. They are stacked defensively, stacked at weapons. Do not love their offensive line, and Trent Williams is out. I would put them like three, but right now their offensive line is in flux, but they do have the Panthers and the Falcons coming up after the Rams, and I like their chances against the Rams. This is a really Buffalo level roster seven for the Niners. Number six Bengals got right, we predicted it. They're fine. They've run more offensive plays than anybody in the league. They're top tenant scoring defense. Joe Burrow last two games, no picks, four touchdowns. Now they've got to run the ball better and they're still making too many mistakes. But again, we're gonna know a lot about this team in the next two weeks because they host the weary, the tired Dolphins this week, then it's the Ravens. So maybe I'm a little high on him. But I watched the second half against the Cowboys, and I watched the Jets game, and they feel right to me. Weapons, quarterback, tackles, pass rush, they feel right to me. Number five, I'll give the Dolphins credit only remaining undefeated AFC team. Here's the thing about two last twelve games. Dolphins are eleven and one. They're winning games. What do I always say, got to be productive as the quarterback. I don't care what it looks like and he got to win games. Now they're going to Cincinnati short week. I think they're in trouble. But I've got to be honest. First three games to his passer ratings, he's the only guy over a hundred. He's doing he's doing the breeze thing, and he's got great weapons. So I'm not I don't think Miami's a championship team, but we have to. I picked him to make the playoffs. This looks like a playoff team to me. Number four, I still think the Ravens are really, really good. I thought they outplayed Miami. Their defense is struggling, but a lot of that is on the back end. They got kids, but they have the number one scoring offense in the league. They have twelve offensive touchdowns. They're the opposite of the New York Giants. They get into the end zone. The Ravens get into the end zone. Also, who leads the NFL and passer rating their quarterback Lamar. So they're scuffing on the back end of their defense. That's why I can't make him a top three team. This is a really explosive team. They don't settle for field goals, folks. They get in the red zone. They give you seven in the end. That's that's what I say about Daniel Jones. You gotta give me point, you gotta give me touchdowns. They give him to you. Number three Kansas City. Most of that loss to the Colts was a teams It was a disaster. They muffed a punt, they missed an extra point, they had a fake field goal not work. They missed a thirty four yard field goal. That's why they lost the game. They had a bad special team Sunday. But they have ten offensive touchdowns that only the Ravens and the Lions have more. They have the best sack differential, so they're getting to the other quarterback. They're fine. They're fine. They had a really bad special team Sunday and it happens. Number two Philadelphia, number one total offense. They're converting almost forty nine percent of their third downs. Jalen Hurts is hard to defend. They move the sticks, they pick up first downs, keeping your quarterback off the field. Jalen. Here's the other thing I like. Jalen Hurts leads the NFL passing yards per attempt, So don't tell me he's thrown underneath and playing it safe. He has thrown it down the field. Yards per attempt and yards per completion the Eagles lead. This is a big play offense. They are. They're like a little bit like Cincinnati last year. They're taking in big swings down field. And that's for a quarterback that we thought accuracy issues. It's not an issue. They are a big play offense. OH lines playing great D lines, getting that they may have the best combination of O line D line in the NFL. Number one Buffalo Listen. They've won twenty of their last twenty eight games by blowouts. They're the Mike Tyson don't have much of a jab, but if you're not prepared, it's over in the second round. They've gained seventy seven first downs. They have the best point differential, they have the best passing offense. I don't love their offensive line and they are too Josh Allan centric, But my eyes tell me that's the best looking roster in the league with an unbelievable quarterback. And the other thing is they're so beat up defensively. They were missing three starters in the secondary in the Miami Heat, so you had more you had less talented guys playing more apps and then they were missing two or three starters on the defensive line, so were they were so thin going to Miami. When you go to Miami in September, you're not facing the Dolphins. You're facing the heat and the Dolphins. So I think Buffalo is still number one. One more Herd. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you like. Well. Seth Wickersham is a great writer. He wrote that book we had him on before called It's Better to Be Feared the Patriots Dynasty in the pursuit of greatness and that greatness is now mediocrity and spiraling down. He also just wrote a story on Sean McVan the Rams, which is they're doing an amazing job. You know, I want to start with the mcvaan the Rams first, Seth, because I said something last week I said when I watched them play, they got issues. Van Jefferson's hurt Alan Robinson. I don't think he's washed. He's twenty nine, but it's not great. Cam Akers is fumbling near the goal line and reportedly McVay frustrated because he doesn't blow Whitworth retired, Brian Allen hurt the center, and they're just kind of making it work. The coach is good, the culture is good. Everybody buys in Arizona's the opposite or I questioned the coach and the culture, but I love the players. So you recently spent multiple days with McVeigh and it was in the off season. Is there a secret sauce to him? Like when you what was your takeaway flying back, you know, to the East coast after you sat down with him? Yeah, thanks, man, I appreciate It's good to see you again. Um Man, I was with Sean. I visited him every month in the off season for at least a couple of days, so I got a pretty good sense of him. And what I was really curious about was like, what was it that he brought to football that has led him to almost burn himself out at age thirty six. I mean, he's off to a historic start. You know, he has a chance to go down as one of the all time greats if he can hang in there. And the torture that he was feeling about his craft was the thing I wanted to get out with him. And I also think that it addresses your question as to what makes him so special, because he's the system as much, maybe not quite as much, but almost as much as Bill Belichick might be in New England. And what he's been able to do. I don't think that he's ever articulated it this way, and I don't know if he would, but in my opinion, I think that he's been able to take what he learned from Mike Shanahan, from studying Bill Belichick and getting to know him, and take a culture that we thought for the past duk two decades could only be done one way. Culture of winning. It has to be a little bit miserable, last has to be a little bit tough and brutal, like it was in New England, and I think he's been able to make that fun. It is hard to take the collection of personalities that he's had there and turn it into something special, and yet he's been able to do it. Well, you're in this story business writing them and finding them. Was there a McVay story that you'd not heard of that was unreported that you kind of, you know, a little gem that you found when you spent time with him. I mean, there a lot of them. You know, I'll let readers go look up what he said to try to convince Team Brass to trade for Matthew Stafford in Tabo when he had had a couple of tequilas, because it's not quite perfect for your heir. But that said, I think the thing that interest being most was last year in November when they didn't lose an entire game, and just how physically sick he was, and how I think that he was almost broken at that point, and what it took for him to get his mind right. He was almost like retreating, retreating home and disconnecting from the rest of the building so that he could get his mind right. And Raheem Morris's defensive coordinator, who I think should be a head coach in this league soon was the one who was one of the only people who had a relationship with him strong enough that he could say, look, I know what's going on with you, and we need you back in the building. We need you to re engage. Sean ended up having like a really long meeting with Matthew Stafford that was unreported that you know, where they basically had to look at the pressure that they were under and it was almost like therapeutic, where they talked about out how much stress they were under and were able to kind of share that and articulate in a way that they weren't able to do before. And I'm not saying that's the reason why they won the Super Bowl, but I think it's the reason why Sean was able to help get that team out of that November slide and on the way to the point where they won the super Bowl. All right, let's shift now to your book just came out in paperback, It's Better to Be Feared, just released online and in bookstores. It's fantastic. It is a great read. Highly recommend it. And now we look at this in the rearview mirror. You know, I was showing something earlier today, Seth. I tend to be a theory guy. I find data, and I kind of like that. That's kind of how I do my show. And of the seven lowest rated quarterbacks, six have defensive head coaches and the only offensive one. The only offensive one is Frank Reich. And I thought last week they got it right. And my belief is there's been some cultural changes in the NFL once the CT fear came in. Moms fearing their sons playing football. You can't hit a quarterback, you can't hit a receiver. Running backs about the last guy you get a free shot at. So that's the world now, and that means a lot of the high school kids and the college kids they want to play receiver, quarterback. They want to be famous, make money, and not get hit. So the world is changing, almost like basketball and the three point shot. There's no more back to the basket centers. You go look at California high school recruiting in Texas and Florida, the kid and all the best athletes want to be quarterbacks and wide receivers, fame, money, you can't hit me. So what's happening in football is defensive coaches. The rules have changed. They are literally a huge disadvantage in this sport, and it's happening fast seth. This is my theory. Ron Rivera, Pete Carroll, Belichick, Zimmer, Tomlin. They feel like out out maneuvered. And so as I go back to your book, my takeaway is the league is built for Andy Reid and McVeagh. It's not built for Belichick. And I don't think this is just a bad break. I think Bill's gonna struggle going forward, That is my takeaway. Am I being hyperbolic? Do you see some of these changes? Are you shocked at all by how Badag's been for the Patriots? I don't know if I agree with it in terms of Belichick, but yeah, let me take you back. You know, there was years ago that I was talking to Belichick about exactly what you're talking about, and he was talking about this route concept that they had stolen from Urban Meyer. And I said, you know, what do you guys call that? And he goes, oh, we call it our Gator package from Urban Meyer in Florida. Then I went to go talk to Brady about it and I said, yeah, so when you run your Gator package and he kind of just stares at me like he has no idea what I'm talking about, and I'm like, your Gator package and he goes, yeah, I don't know. I was like, well, coach Belichick told me it's the Gator package and he said, yeah. You have to remember he's a defensive coach. I think that. I think that, like with Bill, he's presided over a lot of great offenses, especially in two thousand and seven, and if you look at the situation they have now. I think the question to be asking, I agree with your larger theory, but with him in specific, not having an offensive coordinator, having Matt Patricia called the offensive plays, knowing that mac Jones is a competent quarterback, but the competence is not going to cut it in the overpopulated great quarterback AFC. Is this helping him get better? I think that's the question that's facing the Patriots right now, because he's had seasons before where he doesn't have an offensive coordinator. Back when he was with the Browns in the early nineties, he once had fifteen coaches on his staff and no offensive coordinator, and when he was asked about it, he was saying the same things he says now about how everyone pitches. In all that said, no one's talking about the nineties Browns lighting the league on fire on offense. Yeah, well, you know, by the way, in nineteen ninety that may have worked. I mean, you could go into a se and say we're a running team that plays defense, kind of a Dave Juan Stat team that won a lot of games and divisions back then the world. That's like saying we pounded inside and we dunk a lot. The Warriors are like, we play small ball and hit threes. So it is interesting. The Tomlins, Pete Carroll's Belichick, Mike Zimmer, There's ron Rivera. So when you look at Brady now, it's been a little turbulent. You know Arians now upstairs, he and Giselle stuff. It's not stuff I want to talk about, but we know it's it's it's bumpy, the ownership thing in Miami. Are you surprised by some of the turbulence or is it just being like he's Ronaldo in America? Is it part and partial to fame? Now, it's been a weird, atypical year for Brady. I mean, here's someone through for most of his two decades in the public eye has been very drama free, right, and this year has been nothing but drama, beginning with the fact that as last year ended, as I report in my book, he had grown disenfranchised with the Bucks. Wasn't they didn't He didn't think they were really buttoned up heading into the playoffs under Bruce Arians, a person who he loves, but again, he was used to approaching the game and the team's being button up for games to the nth degree. In New England and that just isn't Brusarian style. They lose to the Rams. After almost coming back, Jeff Darlington and Adam Schefter report that he's going to retire. He says he's not going to retire. Two days after that, he retires, saying that saying that, you know, he wants to spend more time with his family. A week after that, he says he might unretire. A month after that, he says after a month with his family, he's learned that his places on the field, arians goes upstairs. Then Brady leaves training camp and he's starting this season not only down receivers, but with you know, his marriage being written about almost on a daily basis in CNN, the New York Post. People, he just does not look like he's having very much fun. And frankly, you can't blame him at all. Yeah, no, it's a good point. Hey, let me ask you another question. You've you know, your senior writer ESPN Seth Wickersham show the book again. It's Better to Be Feared, just released available online all bookstores, paperback now buy it. I've read it. It's great. We had him on about a year ago and we talked rams McVay, you just interviewed An Belichick. Let me give you another non NFL question or an NFL question outside of that is that and you have this labyrinth of sources in the NFL. So we got into this the other day. We were talking about Nathaniel Hackett. So in Green Bay, I've always worried about this, Like, let's take college football. Dan Lenning got hired at Oregon, but Kirby Smarts a defensive coordinator. So my takeaway is how much did Dan Lenning? What was her responsible for? That's Kirby's defense. Sabans had a lot of offensive coordinators hired, right because Nick lets those guys run it, Kiff and Sark all those guys. So made Lafleur and Aaron Rodgers have a very strong point of view. Nathaniel Hackett's there, and later Aaron Rodgers is like, we played he's funny, and I'm thinking, that's not what I want to hear. That's not not interested in darts. And so I watched him go to Denver and I think to myself, oh my god, the offense is the problem. That's his side of the ball. McVay solved that in an hour McDermott solved defense in Buffalo in an hour. What do we know about Nathaniel Hackett other than his dad coached? Like like, you're like this thing in Denver esthetically, seth it looks awful. Is it a Russ issue? Is it? Nathaniel? What are you hearing with all your sourcing? Yeah? And I think that you can't forget that there was a big question in the league whether Rogers was going to return to football and whether he wanted to return to Green Bay. And I'm still convinced that that's one of the reasons why Hackett was hired, and that even as they were in the process of trading for Russell Wilson, they were still just making sure that Aaron Rodgers, you know, was definitely going to stay in Green Bay. Look, it's been a sloppy start so far for Nathaniel Hackett, There's no question about that. I was at the Week two game. You know, they were sloppy against the Texans, who aren't a very good team. They looked horrible on offense against the forty nine ers, who are a good team. That said they're two in one. I think that what we're seeing is a steep learning curve from being a coordinator to the head coach, and not everyone can make it. Whether he can make it remains to be seen. And I think the other thing is that Seattle believed, and they believed this for a long time, that Russell Wilson had limitations. And I think the worst place you can be in the NFL is if you have a B plus quarterback and you're paying them like a surefire future Hall of Famer, which were not exactly sure that Russe is right. They believed that Russe had gotten a little bit slower, that he struggled to anticipate windows, and that there were certain passes even because of him, just because of his height, even though he's done so much to transcend that that he still couldn't make and it allowed defenses to cheat a little bit. And I think that when you watch Russell Wilson play, look he's had some drop passes and he clearly is not benefit from a completely disorganized offense. That said, there were some things about him that Seattle had self scouted and they believed that he was maybe on the backside of his career, and I think that you're seeing some of that right now with him in Denver. Well, you know what, Seth. The truth is, if you look at the history of quarterbacks that move out of the pocket, Ben aged Fast, cam age Fast, I don't remember fran Tarkenton. He was the first quarterback that moved around. Jet Kyler, by the way, has played poor at the end of seasons. It's it's just a harder life, you know, when you're when you're you know, and I think that's the reality, like Jalen Hurts, but you know it's funny. Let me let me pivot to this like I have always not always might take away Lamar Jackson is Listen, if you sign him for a five year deal and in four years he starts to go off the cliff in the NFL, who cares. I just don't want to be. I don't want to be the New York Giants. And I do think what we're seeing, Seth is that. And it's a really good point on Russell, is that I'm willing to spend big money on Jalen Hurts, Lamar Kyler, but we have to realize that the pocket, this Brady thing's never gonna happen again. You're gonna get nine years and then, by the way, Aaron now is much less effective throwing on the run. I've seen his data in the last two years, and so I think, again, holistically, I think we look at quarterbacks and my takeaway is if they're good now and fairly young, sign them and pay them a fortune. And I think, to your point, maybe I'm too much of a homer. Russell looks heavier and slower. He does right, and he's always and I do think that Russell Wilson more than a lot of short quarterbacks. He has done a lot to transcend his limitations. I mean, thinks the guy is a really good football player. But again, he's always done. He's always needed things that defenses could cheat on, like, for instance, needing a lot of space in the pocket, like if you look, he's most comfortable when he drops back way deep and almost throws a twenty five yard pass for a twelve yard completion. And I think that again, he's a really good player, and he's elevated that team. And even though they've only played the Ford and Niners, that are a good team, he has made some throws in their two wins that the opposing quarterback didn't to help win games. And so we'll see I think we need to be a little patient. But I do know that there's people around the league who saw Josh McDaniels come to the Raiders and thought what he might do with Derek Carr and wondered if the Broncos were still still had the fourth best quarterback in that division even after they traded for Russell Wilson. Wow, that's interesting, all right, Seth Wickersham. Show the book again, the paperback version of Seth book. It's better to be feared Amazon online bookstores, It's better to be feared the Patriots dynasty in pursuit of greatness. With a couple of minutes left here, go back to that book. As you write the book, you know, hindsight's twenty twenty. You can say, boy, but there is there a message in that book. You look at now and you think, I'm not surprised you go back. I'm gonna go read this book again. By the way, is there a message in there? And that year twelve, year thirteen of that dynasty? We should have known it was very much Brady driven. Well, what I tried to do with the book was get as close as I possibly could through all my interviews with him over the years through interviewing everybody I could possibly think of, to show readers the forces and the factors that led to the greatness of Bill Belichick and Tom Brady and show the cost of it so that readers understood that this wasn't some hokey, sanitized version of it and there have been costs to their greatness. And I think that one of the things that I really focused on the last thirty percent or so of the book is when Tom Brady's trying to do something unprecedented play until the age he's playing at at the level that he's playing at, that you lose something and the family dynamic and the pressure that he's put on the family by being so singilor really dedicated to what he needs to do. There is no roadmap for what Tom Brady is doing. He's inventing it as he goes, and the way that he knows is only putting in the effort that he puts in. And I think that we're seeing is is that there's been a strain for a long time about how hard this is and how much he devotes into his craft. And I think that again it's it's a difficult topic, but we are seeing reports about marital struggles. Sometimes it looks like they have different camps leaking against each other. And you know, given the way that the offseason went and the couple years before that, where Gizelle was really just so vocal about her preference that he needed to be more present at home and that she had given up a lot for his career, I think that we're seeing some of that play out. And I'm not like proud of showing that in the book, but I just think it's a real cost of his greatness. Yeah, Seth Wickersham, all was smart, all was thoughtful. Go read that book. I'm gonna go read it again. And uh, you're a busy guy and didn't have to do this. And I always appreciate you stopped by our show, Seth, my pleasure. Always good to talk to you man. Thank you