Thanks for listening to the Best of Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from twelve to three eastern nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS one. Find your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd. This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowhern on Fox Sports Radio. Oh What a Day, What a wild unexpected day, live in Los Angeles. It's the Herd wherever you may be and however you may be listening iHeartRadio, Fox Sports Radio FS one. Well, I got up early at three to thirty in the morning, four around the internet. Tom Brady decided to retire, so we knew we'd have a busy day. Jamack is joining me as Owa's You could do a week of shows on Brady. What he meant, what He's done, incredible. Journey really is journey over the destination. You're one of those guys, right, Yeah, destinations are good too, though, destinations are good, but the journey you learn more about yourself. Let's start with Tom Brady. He has announced on social media he will retire. Tom always gets emotional at just the perfect times, almost always when he mentions family. So here he was this morning, feet in the sand. Good morning, guys. I'll get to the point right away. I'm retiring for good. I know the process was a pretty big deal last time, so when I woke up this morning, I figured I just press record. I'll let you guys know first, so I won't be long winded like you. Only get one super emotional retirement essay, and I use mine up last year. So really, thank you, guys so much to every single one of you for supporting me, my family, my friends, my teammates, my competitors. I could go on forever. There's too many thank you guys for allowing me to live my absolute dream. I wouldn't change the thing. I love you all. You know, Retiring in any industry with elegance is really, really hard. In football, it's almost impossible. Grown men run at each other in full speed and drive their bodies through the other man's soul. It's hard. Injuries pile up, teams cut you or trade you. It's not like baseball where you get ten year contracts. You're a Shelley yourself in the last four or five years, and we celebrate you. Thanks for the memories. Football is America's king. There's no time for rome mans. You're cast aside, you're hurt, you're discarded. Money rules, SODA's youth. Next man up. It is an eleven to eleven and a half month grind. But Brady had a twenty year dynasty with all sorts of trophies, the league chasing him him, never relentlessly giving up into Tampa, where he won a super Bowl in a COVID year. Three years, three playoffs and feet in the sand. That's pretty good. Setting two records in his final year most attempts and most completions NFL records at forty five and forty five is an important number. That's the one he always talked about. Tom planned to play till forty five. Not shocking it's the year he retires. Tom's been around so long. The game has changed from defense wins Championships two what's fullback? From no social media to a post this morning on his Twitter account that'll get north of fifty million views, from no international games to ones in Germany, Mexico and England. From gambling is evil to a team in Vegas and a fan duel ad in every break Seattle, changed conferences, he played against multiple father son duos. The world has changed. But you know what's interesting about Brady He hasn't. Really He really hasn't. Hyper competitive to the end, obsessed with football, devoted to it, always wanting to get better. He was my favorite kind of guy, find a way guy, not find an excuse. The world changed, he evolved, but he didn't really. There was never any what ifs with Tom Brady. As he sits there with feet in the sand, there's no what ifs. What he wanted. He sought what he sought, He did what he did. He won everywhere. He wanted Michigan, wanted Foxborough, he wanted Goofy, Tampa. You know, years ago I had an accountant. His name was Bill. He lived in Portland, nice guy, and he had a bunch of clients, most of them older, some passed away. And I asked him one time, I said, what do they all have in common? It wasn't education, it wasn't their family, it wasn't any of that stuff. I said, what are they all have in common? And Bill paused and said, the happiest clients I have are the ones without regrets. That's powerful, right, that's Brady. He wanted stuff, He pursued stuff, no passive aggressive, he'd argued, he'd fight. That's a great message. He didn't really see obstacles. Tom saw opportunities. Like I'll read business books once in a while. They always talk about that stuff. I'm not really sure if you can teach it. Some people wake up grumpy, some people wake up happy, some people wake up pessimistic. Some people like Tom, wake up optimistic. There's no real obstacles, just opportunities. I tell my kids, you should watch the MJ documentary, and I've said this before on this show. It's amazing, right, Michael Jordan was the best player, the best looking player, the most stylish player, the best defensive player, the best everything. And yet it was hard, really really hard, fighting with Owner, fighting with GM, fighting with the Pistons, fighting with the Celtics, fighting with everybody, fighting with teammates, fighting with Rodman, punched the teammate. It was hard for Michael Jordan. It's been hard for Lebron. It was hard for Brady. Being goods hard. Be Great's really hard. Being the goat takes your breath away. But Brady, I think, did it. With some elegance. He really did. It's almost impossible. John Elway did it too, to leave in football in one piece, not discarded, not traded, not pushed aside for some younger player. As he said in his video, thank you. No, Tom, thank you. And I'm not going to give you advice. You certainly don't need it. But if I could whisper in his ear, I'd say, Tom, take some time. I mean really personally, professionally. This took a bite out of you. Take some time. You've earned it, all right. I also think when Tom Brady retires there's a ripple effect. This is the way it happens when anybody that's great retires. There's a ripple effect. Now some of you are thinking he's going to come back. No he's not. I'll just leave it at that. No he's not. I was told this morning the Bucks Jeff Darlington reported it. He's excellent. It was the Buckster retirement that was it. My first thought was when Brady retired. Maybe it was my second thought that Kyle Shanahan, coach of the Niners, went damn it, and Derek Carr went, show me the money. It's the ripple effect. He'll have more offers. Here's the other team. I thought of, though, is that people often claim that I change my opinion, and I say that's because people change theirs and there's new information. And when there's new information, I've got new opinions. And I've said I think it's time to rip the band aid off for the Green Bay Packers. But if you ran the Packers this morning, over the last seventy two hours, you look at people and teams enfranchises in the way of a Super Bowl trip. San Francisco's brought pretty is not only hurt. He may not start the season, he won't be able to participate in offseason workouts. San Francisco's got a mess on their hand. Brady's always a challenge. He's now gone. Minnesota's not going to go eleven and o in close games. Geno Smith. Really, opinions change when circumstances change. And the two obstacles outside of Philadelphia that were clear. San Francisco they got issues, and Tampa they got issues too. The goat retired. The only thing standing in their way if you really look at the entire NFC is Philadelphia. But they're going to have to pay Jalen Hurtz that means some of their expensive free agents are gone. And they've also got two or three great players in the trenches that are very close to retirement. Opinions change when things change. Thought about that this morning driving in, Brady is now retired. San Francisco's a mess. Does Green Bay say to themselves this morning, guys, one more year with Aaron? One more year with Aaron. If you combine Aaron and that roster got all their draft picks, Philadelphia has got some free agents. The Eagles win the Super Bowl. Let's say they do. Guys want to get paid. The ripple effect, it always happens. It happened when MJ left Chicago. Anytime a great person leaves, exit changes, there's an effect. And I did think this morning, if you're Green Bay, do you go from ripping the band aid off to keeping it on? Just waiting a couple of days and ask an Aaron if he could stop by the office, we'd like to have another discussion. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Easter Ninny Empacific on Fox Sports Radio FS one and the iHeart Radio app. Great to have you in. You know. One more thought about Brady and I'll come back to this circle back to Tom throughout the course of the day. Is that I think people in general don't give themselves enough time for themselves. I try to do it every day, couldn't yesterday. Try to give myselves forty five minutes every day to just like meditate, sit, think, get off the device, just thoughts about kids and family and life and where I'm going, what I've done. And I really seriously do hope Tom Brady had a really rough year personal We all know about that, kids moving, a lot of opportunities, disappointing year. I hope there's people in Tom's life and he heeds this. Give yourself some time you have been so committed to football and family and take a deep breath. Feting the sands a good place to be so. Sean Payton is the coach of the Denver Broncos. I had talked to Sean off the air Monday after our segment, and I was convinced he was staying at Fox. He changed his avatar to Fox. So life comes at you fast when the big money comes rolling in. The Denver Bronco job is complex. For the record, most great jobs are. Netflix has a guy named Reid Hastings. He was the founder. He stepped down. Somebody else is going to be in the driver's seat for a while. Great company, complex, got some issues. All great jobs are. It's layered, there's challenges, there's some problems to solve, there's some unknowns. But what's interesting about Denver's it is the opposite of a lot of job openings. So I went to PF at three thirty this morning. I got up, didn't go back to sleep. PF. I went to Depth Charts. I texted too East Coast personnel guys. I know Denver's got dudes, that's not the issue. Great young safety, great young corner, great young running back, a left tackle, even their shaky offensive line. I read a preseason article that had a top five in the league before the season. They've got guards they like, They've got some unrestricted free agents. They'll have to solve it. But this is not Houston, this is not the Texans, this isn't the entire NFC South. Denver's got dudes. They've got rich owners, and they've got a GM that drafts really really well. Perfect jobs, folks, They're never available. Somebody gave me life advice years ago and I think it's I thought, I thought it was really smart, and I don't remember who did. But they said, if you're not bailing water for the first six months on any job, then you didn't challenge yourself. The last perfect job in the NFL was Green Bay Matt Lafleur four years with Aaron Rodgers and two playoff wins. This is not like other jobs. You got players, you got personnel. Generally, when you take over a job, it's a weird owner, an incompetent GM, a bad roster, gotta find a quarterback now that they've got like two issues here, not a lot of cap space for several years. And the Russell Wilson thing. He was so good for a long time and then last year he was awful. What do you do? Don't kid yourself. Two things are important to know here. This was a job for a veteran offensive coach. Damiko Ryan's wasn't the right fit. You need somebody who was dealt with crap egos, roadblocks, maneuvering. This is not a first timer's job, and it's not a defensive coach's job. If you look at many of the places that have turned it around, quick McVeigh with the Rams, Andy Read with Kansas City, Brian Dable with the Giants. It's an offensive coach who figures out the quarterback position. And I don't know exactly about the Russell Wilson thing. I don't know him well enough to have a strong, strong opinion on him personally. But he was really, really good. And I said all year, there's no precedent for being one hundred four passer rating, one hundred six passer rating, one hundred three passer rating, on hundred three passer rating, the worst player in the world. It doesn't work like that. He didn't have a major injury. He's still pre thirty five. So if Brian Dabele can solve Daniel Jones with a bad roster, I think Sean Payton can solve Russell Wilson with a good roster. I sat down for four and a half hours talking to Peyton about three weeks ago. We talked about everything. He loved the city. What do you know about Denver? I'm like, it's a great American city, Rocky Mountain, Sinair, great people, big brand. I always called at the Steelers with a mountain range. They've almost always been competent. Elway good, Peyton Manning winning Super Bowls, Orange Crush. They've always been competent. They've never been the Texans, They've never been the Lions right for an extended period. The owners are rich. They've got players everywhere. At every unit, there's a really really good player. Not Niners or Philadelphia, but really really good players. They won five games this morning. The over under on wins is eight and a half. It'll move to nine. Yeah, that feels right. What about Mahomes? What about him? Chargers made the playoffs. Mahomes is in the division and they don't even have a coach we like. So I don't think it's easy. I don't think they have cultural problems in Denver. They played Kansas City great late, they played well down the stretch. They don't have a weird owner. They've got a rich one. It's what Sean Payton does, solves quarterbacks. Jamis Winston had his highest passer rating was Sean Breeze became a Hall of Famer and one Bridge Bridgewater like five and one with him or five and oh with him. A couple of years ago, when Breeze got hurt, the job needed an offensive coach. Harbor and Sean Payton were and should have been the people that got strong, strong consideration. He's gonna make them better. But yes, the job is complicated. You can talk yourself out of it. I thought multiple times he was in, and then multiple times he was out. It's not easy the new guy running Netflix. You got dudes too, You've got personnel too, you got money too. It's layered. You got issues, that whole streaming thing, hemorrhaging a lot of money, and that whole Broncos thing. What's tough with Russell. I don't have the answers, But solving quarterbacks is what Sean Payton has always done. By the way, we had Sean Payton on the show multiple times and I asked him about, you know, fixing Russ and about how the relationship goes with a quarterback, and he talked about the plays the week of the game, what you use, what you don't, how to make the quarterback comfortable. Drew and I would discuss hey at the end of the week. On Saturday, we'd be at the hotel. We'd finish the team meeting, finished the offensive meeting. The last thing we'd do before game day Sunday would be adopt meeting, where we'd go through, you know, the plays in each section. Let's talk about the play acs from pass. I want to know your top three now after the week's finished, and i'd sharpe these three, and I want to call those plays that he likes. And then I always wanted to know, Hey, is there something you didn't like? And periodically, not often, but periodically he might say, hey, I don't feel comfortable with that. I don't feel like we got a good enough look with that this week, and I just put a line through. Then we'd want to set up the look in practice where it simulated the Chargers defense, and you want to get a rep or two where you're like, ah, I see it. It feels good. Yeah, it's what Sean does, is what the Broncos need, so it should work. And pretty quickly, he's also replays a coach that was completely over his skis. So I'll go back to it. If Brian Dabele can get Daniel Jones and that roster into the playoffs and win a playoff game, yeah, I think Sean Paynton's gonna make Denver better quickly. Super Bowls. No idea beating Mahomes, no idea competent, Absolutely be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays and noon Easter nine am Pacific. So over twenty three years, Tom Brady missed just just nineteen games, fifteen for a torn acl and then there was like that deflate gate thing. Three things that jump out to me on a day in which Tom retired. Number one, durability is not random, Lebron and Tom Brady. It's not random. They live the right way, they eat right, they recover, They spend millions of dollars on their bodies, so it's not just random. You know, smart people equal smart habits, equal smart lives. If you look in society who ages well, it's people that do everything in moderation. If they drink, it's light social drinking. They have a good safety net of friends, animals, people that make them happy, lots of love, don't eat too much, don't drink too much, don't smoke, don't take huge physical risks. You've seen people that age well and look great at sixty. It's not a coincidence. I mean, obviously some people get you know, bad luck with genetics. I totally get that, But you know, Brady Russell Wilson, you look at a lot of the athletes that have aged very very well. They are totally utterly committed to their bodies. The second thing is, you know, Brady was never about anything other than winning. You really see it in social media. A lot of athletes or status driven or money driven or me driven. Tom was winning driven. And it sounds really simple, and there's a lot of athletes like that. And I've always understood in that first contract, you know, make as much as you can. But Brady took a lot of paycuts pre Jizelle, post Gazelle, during Jizelle. That's just what he did. Winning is what drove his career. And I believe this to be true. You'll make money, what you want to do is win. You win everything, endorsements, you curry favor with owners, teammates, businesses, affiliates. Just win. Brady figured that out really really quickly. Just win. Everything else takes care of itself. Make the thing the thing, don't get sidetracked. The third thing, he won three MVPs and in none of those years did he win a Super Bowl. And I think that's significant. Brady this year led the NFL in attempts and completions, so he through more than he's ever thrown the last two years and completed more passes than he's ever completed in the last couple of years, and yet they were two of the most anemic offenses he was ever on. Is that balance is a real thing. We said this all year about the Buffalo Bills. You have no balance. You are completely utterly Josh Allen reliant. Joe Burrow's good, they have a run game, they have great receivers. Patrick Mahomes is great. They got a power runner, They've got good receivers, they have a clever offensive coach, they rebuilt their offensive line. The Bills are all in on Josh Allen everything he plays. Party they lose, there's no chance. So what's interesting is Tom left New England because he didn't have weapons, and then in the end he left Tampa in football because it was all he had in Tampa. Weapons. Not sure about the coach, the coordinator, the culture, the structure. I always had this belief with Tom is that deep down, Aaron Rodgers wants to stay. Deep down, Tom Brady wants to stay. People don't like to buy a new home. People don't like change people. We're all like this. I would talk to a psychologist once about this. There's a reason people generally eat two or three things for breakfast. They have two or three things because when we wake up in the morning, we have habits, and over the course of a day, our habits get loose. You thought you were going to eat well all day. You go into cookies and snacks. You thought you were gonna work out. You don't have time for it. You thought you were going to do this. Yeah, but our days mostly start the same, the same habits. We shower, same shampoo, same drive to work. We have mostly the same breakfast at the same time. And then over the course of a day, our life, you know, doesn't go as planned. We don't have the discipline. Emotionally, we're up, we're down. I think most most athletes want want to stay and do what Jeter did and do what Steph Curry's doing. But they fire a good coach, you'll lose a good teammate. The owner doesn't respect you. There's a lot of reasons people changed. I always thought that Tom really wanted to stay in New England. But two things happened. The Patriots went after Stefon Diggs, and they finished second to Buffalo. If Stefon Diggs goes to New England and they land him, then all those other average receivers, that's okay, we got our ace. Stefan has ninety five catches, twelve touchdowns. Everybody else fills out the roster. Brady wanted a star receiver, and he also wanted a little more say and respect, And maybe he would have left anyway, but I always felt like that was a thing. But he knew the coach was great, and knew the defense was great. He knew the division was wonky, he knew the running backs were good, he knew the old line was good. New England doesn't give up thirty points regularly. You don't have to win his the ages by shootout. I think he really wanted to stay. And it's really a cautionary tale about the ego of Belichick. If Belichick would have relented his ego and just said, we're gonna overpay for Stefon Diggs, and I'm gonna give Tom a little more respect and power. I mean, Tom Brady. Remember this when Tom left New England, Remember how odd it was, how respectful he was of Cam Newton. He gave Brady a game ball as last year in Tampa, and Belichick looked uncomfortable. Cam Newton, who was a shot fighter, came to New England and Belichick was, Oh, it's unbelievable, what a great the best work at Oh. But I never heard him saying that about Brady. He had a press release when he was gone. But it was like a lot of this. Tom wanted to stay. I think all athletes want to stay. I mean, wouldn't it be great if you could grow up in a house and your mom or your dad started company, and then you say, you go to the same drive through restaurant, you have the same friends, you're in the same softball league. Most of us leave not because we want to. I left because I had to. There were no jobs. It would be awesome if you didn't have to bounce around the country. It would be awesome if you could always stay. But there's a reason he left. Belichick gave more praise to Cam Newton six months later than he needed to Brady in twenty years. And they wouldn't pay for Steffon Diggs, and they wouldn't spend money on the perimeter offensively as the game was pivoting to an offensive league. The other thing is that in football, you don't have to be graded at everything, you really do. I mean, Kansas City's got some issues. Philadelphia nout because they're not paying their quarterback. San Francisco in Philadelphia don't have a lot of issues. That's very very rare. There's always a team or two like that. But the minute Philadelphia, if they win, everybody wants to get paid. They're gonna lose some free agents, one or two old guys, retire their roster next year likely not as good. So when you get it like this, got to win super Bowls, which is why I speculated San Francisco would go after Brady, because Kittle, Trent Williams, Davils, Deebo, Samuel's, Christian McCaffrey. These guys aren't gonna last forever. A lot of injuries, a lot of years, a lot of miles on those tires. But in New England they got really bad at something wide receiver, like really really bad, and it put more and more pressure on Tom, and I think in the end he made the right decision. He said, you know what I want. People generally leave and when they do leave, it's because of one or two things they didn't get at the other place. Tom wanted to say he got it, and he wanted receivers, and he got it. He didn't get the culture, he didn't get the coach, he didn't get the discipline, he didn't get the academic nature, he didn't get the defense consistently. He didn't get Donte Scarneckie. But he got more say and he got great receivers. Three years, three playoffs, in a Super Bowl too. That's not bad. One more Heard. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you like. Well, Eric Mangini spent years and years with Tom Brady, who announced on the beach he is retiring. I hope he takes some time to himself. He's such an intense guy. I always see when people retire, they always jump back into stuff, and I'm like, dude, been a rough year. Family takes some time, take a deep breath. So when you know you saw the early Tom, the aging Tom, the star Tom, you know I said earlier. Obviously he got richer and more famous, but he was still always sort of driven values, intensity, like, I don't think he changed that much. Hell, he still looks like he's twenty nine years old. He even on all the success, I still feel like I know kind of what Tom's about your thoughts on that when I when I talked to my kids about Tom Brady, the thing that to me that makes him great is no matter how much fame he had, how much success he had, how much money he had, he worked the same way every day. And that's that's really hard to do. And that the young guy that that came in New England, a sixth round draft pick that had that wasn't very good that first year at all. When when he was sitting and watching and struggling after practice and our one on ones against the DBS, he just he just consistently worked at it and took the same approach. And then when he had success, he did the same thing. And he treated people extremely well. He was kind to everybody. He embraced people that came in the locker room. It's it's such a rare combination to have that much uh success and and that much humility, and it's it's something you know, I hope for my kids that they can strive for those type of traits. Yeah, you know, it's it's gonna send a ripple through the market. My first thought is Kyle Shanahan went bummer and Derek Carr went show me the money, you know, because it here's the other thing. So let's say you ran the Packers and in the last seventy two hours the Niners are a massive question market. Quarterback Tom Brady retires in Philadelphia. If they win the Super Bowl, everybody's gonna want to get paid. And I thought this morning, I thought, is Green Bay saying, you know we're gonna sleep on this Aaron Rodgers to the Titans or Jets thing? It does what Tom retiring If I'm in the NFC, it does make me pause for a second, doesn't it. Eric. Well, look, if I'm the Packers, I wouldn't be thinking about getting rid of Aaron Rodgers at all, regardless of how frustrating he's better or any of the problems he may have created. And I know Jay Mack was just talking about not wanting him at the Jets. But you've got Zach Wilson versus is Aaron Rodgers. Yeah No, it's really fun. Winning winning is winning is a lot of fun. And when you could upgrade your quarterback situation that dramatically, They should they should back up the vault or whatever they need to do to get him, because the Jets aren't that far away. But if you're if you're Green Bay, yeah, he may be difficult to deal with. But life without an MVP caliber quarterback that's really hard. That's really hard, and and they may learn that pretty quickly if they move on from him. And Jordan loves not the guy they hope he is. You know, we were talking about Sean Payton, so uh, Kansas City alex Andy Reid took the Chiefs from two wins to eleven one year, UM, Sean McVay four to eleven with golf one year. Uh, Doug Peterson worst team in the league, the playoffs one year. Brian Dable joke to a playoff win in one year is that if you get the right code, you can solve stuff, especially in twenty twenty three and offensive coach, you can solve stuff pretty quickly. I think Sean's gonna make Denver better because I went, I went this morning to the depth chart in PFF. They've got a lot of good players. This is not like the Texans. What to you is a reasonable idea, a reasonable prediction next year? What from five wins to what is reasonable in your opinion? Well, well, it depends, Colin. They obviously made a huge upgrade in terms of experience and and and credibility and all those things would bring Sean in and now it's a function of also getting getting Russell Wilson back in line. And I think Russell Wilson came in and he ran things organizationally, and now with Sean there, that that dynamic is going to change back to head coach then then quarterback and that could be a really positive thing for Russell. It's gonna be interesting to see how the systems fused together because Sean's traditionally done a lot of shifting and motioning and multiple formations and no huddle and significant game planning, where Russell Wilson's been more on the stationary side from a from a offensive perspective. So do you cater it for Russell Wilson or do you create some sort of fusion or do you adapt Sean's system that that that's going to be something that that they have to work through. It's not a lot of draft capital. They're not in bad shape from a salary cap perspective, but you wish there was a little more from a draft perspective, so they could get quick better quicker. Yeah, uh, you know, three games improvement. I don't think is unreasonable with with adding a head coach like seanpin them. The Super Bowl matchup is interesting. We were talking about this. The better team in terms of roster is Philadelphia. They just have more elite players um and then viosly, the better quarterback is Mahomes. Go back to your early Brady Super Bowls because Jalen Hurts as a big difference between playing at home and playing the Giants and playing the Niners without Brock Purdy and playing Mahomes and Patrick. This is another day at the office, Jalen, This is a big moment. I think Mahomes actually can put pressure on you because you know you're you know you're on the same telecast in the same comparison. Take Tom's early Super Bowls when he was young, like Hurts. Was he nervous that it changed the game plan? Did you come out a little slower did you consider his lack of experience in that stage? Or remember Colin, we only had three offensive touchsigns in our first Super Bowl run and Drew Bledsoe through one of those in the AFC Championship game when Tom got thinged up, so we we weren't looking at it from the perspective of Tom had had to win the game for us, and and Jalen to me, has a really great perspective on things. He has a great perspective on the success he's had, He's had a great perspective on where the team was throughout the course of the season and not looking too far ahead. He seems grounded, and that's the most important thing for me, is that he doesn't get too much put on his shoulders and he doesn't feel the way to the world on his shoulders, because because that's where where he'll get in trouble. I do think he needs to play better than he did last game. Yeah, they need to find a way to exploit the young secondary of the Chiefs and on those quarterback driven runs. He needs to be better as a runner where he's really been strong. But he doesn't need to win the game on his own. They're collectively a really good team and let the game. Let the game unfold and they'll be fine. When you were with the Patriots and you felt you had a better roster, would you coach differently if you felt like, guys, our units are depths better. We always looked at it from the perspective of how how can the other team hurt us? And we were going to make sure that we eliminated the ways that they could hurt us. And Bill Belichick is one of the best that at identifying those things and making sure we were always hyper aware of it. It wasn't it wasn't about coaching a different way. It was just making sure that everybody understood what we had to do to achieve our objectives and they were very clearly outlined, and we didn't expect people to go outside of that plan. We just expected people to hold up their end of the bargain within that plan. Finally, do you have a favorite Tom Brady moment, story, experience practice? I know I'm kind of catching you off guard here, but when you think of Brady, are there a couple of moments that kind of, you know, kind of a good laugh with Tom? You know? Was he a good sport when people make fun of him? When you think of Tom, what do you think of? Look, there's there's the football moments. It's that that drive at the end of the first Super Bowl, which was incredible when John Madden said we should probably take a knee and play for overtime. There was the third and three play against Carolina where he throws a fifteen yard out to Dion Brands to set up the field goal for Venytary at the end of that game. I mean, those moments were incredible. But working with Tom and we had we used to have rookie classes that I ran with Brian day Ball and Tom having to come into those classes, and and just him as a young guy a six round draft trick, trying to figure it out. We had three other quarterbacks on the roster. Drew Bledsoe had just gotten one hundred million dollar contract extension, and in retrospect, I appreciate his work ethic and and there are a lot of things working against him, especially that first year for him to even stay on the roster, But but his character. We used to run on the treadmill next to each other. Believe it or not, I ran on the treadmill and we'd always be able to spend some time there just talking about could be a range of things, because look, I was a young guy at the time in New England and he was a young guy too, so there are a lot of relatable moments at that point. Eric Manginie, great seeing you here on a Wednesday, Tom Brady's retired coach, Thanks for stopping by late notice for us. Thanks for bringing in your fun friend on a Wednesday. Two NBA Insiders podcasting twice a week to plug you right into the NBA great fight, all happening in only one place. This League Uncut, the new NBA podcast with me Chris Haynes and me Mark Stein join us as we team up to expound on everything we're covering. Hearing and Jason. Listen to This League Uncut with Chris Haynes in Mark Stein on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Here's what's crazy is that whenever I make predictions, like in the NFL this year, I said, the team that's going to win a lot more than you think is Minnesota. I thought it was obvious because they lost all these one score games. I said they're gonna win at least half of them. So I said, watch Minnesota win the division without Davonte Adams. Green bayle pullback. That felt obvious. Green Bay was going to be weapon light Minnesota if they want half of their one score games. I didn't predict they'd go eleven and oz on one score games, but I said it was an easy one, and I was right. The idea that people don't think Sean Payton is gonna work in Denver. Let's just remember this. So they had Paul Hackett, the most overmatched coach in the league, Nathaniel Nathaniel Hackett was his father. Nathaniel Hackett literally in the first game on television against Seattle, the very first game, it was a s show, a circus at the end of the game with timeouts. It was a disaster. With Nathaniel Hackett and an interim in a tough division, they won five games. You don't think Sean Payton, who has a chance to be a Hall of Fame coach, can get him to ten. They lost three games this year in overtime. That's almost unheard of historically. They were four and nine in one score games with an incompetent coach, and many of their best players are young players who will get better with an elite coach. Denver's gonna be way better. Now. I'm not saying Super Bowl, especially in the AFC. You put Denver in the NFC. I'd have no problem saying they got a chance to play in the NFC Championship. AFC's a whole different ballgame. You got the Mahomes and Herbert factor. But folks, they lost three games in overtime and six more by one possession. This is the easiest bet in Vegas. This is going to be the most improved team in the league. Now. I don't know if they get to eleven twelve, but nine from five is a gimme. Look at their schedule. They have a last place schedule. They get the Bears, they get the Texans, they get the Jets, they get the Commanders, they get the Browns, and by the way, they got the Raiders in their own division. They've played the Chiefs tough both games last year, played them tough. They matched up very well with the Kansas City Chiefs. So when a team loses three games in overtime, that is unprecedented. I mean even bad teams, which Denver was, usually get lucky in overtime. So they go oh and three in overtime. Nine of their losses were one score. Their defense is really good. Their schedule is going to be easier. You don't think they can get the nine wins or ten

Thanks for listening to the Best of Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from twelve to three eastern nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS one. Find your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd. This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowhern on Fox Sports Radio. Oh What a Day, What a wild unexpected day, live in Los Angeles. It's the Herd wherever you may be and however you may be listening iHeartRadio, Fox Sports Radio FS one. Well, I got up early at three to thirty in the morning, four around the internet. Tom Brady decided to retire, so we knew we'd have a busy day. Jamack is joining me as Owa's You could do a week of shows on Brady. What he meant, what He's done, incredible. Journey really is journey over the destination. You're one of those guys, right, Yeah, destinations are good too, though, destinations are good, but the journey you learn more about yourself. Let's start with Tom Brady. He has announced on social media he will retire. Tom always gets emotional at just the perfect times, almost always when he mentions family. So here he was this morning, feet in the sand. Good morning, guys. I'll get to the point right away. I'm retiring for good. I know the process was a pretty big deal last time, so when I woke up this morning, I figured I just press record. I'll let you guys know first, so I won't be long winded like you. Only get one super emotional retirement essay, and I use mine up last year. So really, thank you, guys so much to every single one of you for supporting me, my family, my friends, my teammates, my competitors. I could go on forever. There's too many thank you guys for allowing me to live my absolute dream. I wouldn't change the thing. I love you all. You know, Retiring in any industry with elegance is really, really hard. In football, it's almost impossible. Grown men run at each other in full speed and drive their bodies through the other man's soul. It's hard. Injuries pile up, teams cut you or trade you. It's not like baseball where you get ten year contracts. You're a Shelley yourself in the last four or five years, and we celebrate you. Thanks for the memories. Football is America's king. There's no time for rome mans. You're cast aside, you're hurt, you're discarded. Money rules, SODA's youth. Next man up. It is an eleven to eleven and a half month grind. But Brady had a twenty year dynasty with all sorts of trophies, the league chasing him him, never relentlessly giving up into Tampa, where he won a super Bowl in a COVID year. Three years, three playoffs and feet in the sand. That's pretty good. Setting two records in his final year most attempts and most completions NFL records at forty five and forty five is an important number. That's the one he always talked about. Tom planned to play till forty five. Not shocking it's the year he retires. Tom's been around so long. The game has changed from defense wins Championships two what's fullback? From no social media to a post this morning on his Twitter account that'll get north of fifty million views, from no international games to ones in Germany, Mexico and England. From gambling is evil to a team in Vegas and a fan duel ad in every break Seattle, changed conferences, he played against multiple father son duos. The world has changed. But you know what's interesting about Brady He hasn't. Really He really hasn't. Hyper competitive to the end, obsessed with football, devoted to it, always wanting to get better. He was my favorite kind of guy, find a way guy, not find an excuse. The world changed, he evolved, but he didn't really. There was never any what ifs with Tom Brady. As he sits there with feet in the sand, there's no what ifs. What he wanted. He sought what he sought, He did what he did. He won everywhere. He wanted Michigan, wanted Foxborough, he wanted Goofy, Tampa. You know, years ago I had an accountant. His name was Bill. He lived in Portland, nice guy, and he had a bunch of clients, most of them older, some passed away. And I asked him one time, I said, what do they all have in common? It wasn't education, it wasn't their family, it wasn't any of that stuff. I said, what are they all have in common? And Bill paused and said, the happiest clients I have are the ones without regrets. That's powerful, right, that's Brady. He wanted stuff, He pursued stuff, no passive aggressive, he'd argued, he'd fight. That's a great message. He didn't really see obstacles. Tom saw opportunities. Like I'll read business books once in a while. They always talk about that stuff. I'm not really sure if you can teach it. Some people wake up grumpy, some people wake up happy, some people wake up pessimistic. Some people like Tom, wake up optimistic. There's no real obstacles, just opportunities. I tell my kids, you should watch the MJ documentary, and I've said this before on this show. It's amazing, right, Michael Jordan was the best player, the best looking player, the most stylish player, the best defensive player, the best everything. And yet it was hard, really really hard, fighting with Owner, fighting with GM, fighting with the Pistons, fighting with the Celtics, fighting with everybody, fighting with teammates, fighting with Rodman, punched the teammate. It was hard for Michael Jordan. It's been hard for Lebron. It was hard for Brady. Being goods hard. Be Great's really hard. Being the goat takes your breath away. But Brady, I think, did it. With some elegance. He really did. It's almost impossible. John Elway did it too, to leave in football in one piece, not discarded, not traded, not pushed aside for some younger player. As he said in his video, thank you. No, Tom, thank you. And I'm not going to give you advice. You certainly don't need it. But if I could whisper in his ear, I'd say, Tom, take some time. I mean really personally, professionally. This took a bite out of you. Take some time. You've earned it, all right. I also think when Tom Brady retires there's a ripple effect. This is the way it happens when anybody that's great retires. There's a ripple effect. Now some of you are thinking he's going to come back. No he's not. I'll just leave it at that. No he's not. I was told this morning the Bucks Jeff Darlington reported it. He's excellent. It was the Buckster retirement that was it. My first thought was when Brady retired. Maybe it was my second thought that Kyle Shanahan, coach of the Niners, went damn it, and Derek Carr went, show me the money. It's the ripple effect. He'll have more offers. Here's the other team. I thought of, though, is that people often claim that I change my opinion, and I say that's because people change theirs and there's new information. And when there's new information, I've got new opinions. And I've said I think it's time to rip the band aid off for the Green Bay Packers. But if you ran the Packers this morning, over the last seventy two hours, you look at people and teams enfranchises in the way of a Super Bowl trip. San Francisco's brought pretty is not only hurt. He may not start the season, he won't be able to participate in offseason workouts. San Francisco's got a mess on their hand. Brady's always a challenge. He's now gone. Minnesota's not going to go eleven and o in close games. Geno Smith. Really, opinions change when circumstances change. And the two obstacles outside of Philadelphia that were clear. San Francisco they got issues, and Tampa they got issues too. The goat retired. The only thing standing in their way if you really look at the entire NFC is Philadelphia. But they're going to have to pay Jalen Hurtz that means some of their expensive free agents are gone. And they've also got two or three great players in the trenches that are very close to retirement. Opinions change when things change. Thought about that this morning driving in, Brady is now retired. San Francisco's a mess. Does Green Bay say to themselves this morning, guys, one more year with Aaron? One more year with Aaron. If you combine Aaron and that roster got all their draft picks, Philadelphia has got some free agents. The Eagles win the Super Bowl. Let's say they do. Guys want to get paid. The ripple effect, it always happens. It happened when MJ left Chicago. Anytime a great person leaves, exit changes, there's an effect. And I did think this morning, if you're Green Bay, do you go from ripping the band aid off to keeping it on? Just waiting a couple of days and ask an Aaron if he could stop by the office, we'd like to have another discussion. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Easter Ninny Empacific on Fox Sports Radio FS one and the iHeart Radio app. Great to have you in. You know. One more thought about Brady and I'll come back to this circle back to Tom throughout the course of the day. Is that I think people in general don't give themselves enough time for themselves. I try to do it every day, couldn't yesterday. Try to give myselves forty five minutes every day to just like meditate, sit, think, get off the device, just thoughts about kids and family and life and where I'm going, what I've done. And I really seriously do hope Tom Brady had a really rough year personal We all know about that, kids moving, a lot of opportunities, disappointing year. I hope there's people in Tom's life and he heeds this. Give yourself some time you have been so committed to football and family and take a deep breath. Feting the sands a good place to be so. Sean Payton is the coach of the Denver Broncos. I had talked to Sean off the air Monday after our segment, and I was convinced he was staying at Fox. He changed his avatar to Fox. So life comes at you fast when the big money comes rolling in. The Denver Bronco job is complex. For the record, most great jobs are. Netflix has a guy named Reid Hastings. He was the founder. He stepped down. Somebody else is going to be in the driver's seat for a while. Great company, complex, got some issues. All great jobs are. It's layered, there's challenges, there's some problems to solve, there's some unknowns. But what's interesting about Denver's it is the opposite of a lot of job openings. So I went to PF at three thirty this morning. I got up, didn't go back to sleep. PF. I went to Depth Charts. I texted too East Coast personnel guys. I know Denver's got dudes, that's not the issue. Great young safety, great young corner, great young running back, a left tackle, even their shaky offensive line. I read a preseason article that had a top five in the league before the season. They've got guards they like, They've got some unrestricted free agents. They'll have to solve it. But this is not Houston, this is not the Texans, this isn't the entire NFC South. Denver's got dudes. They've got rich owners, and they've got a GM that drafts really really well. Perfect jobs, folks, They're never available. Somebody gave me life advice years ago and I think it's I thought, I thought it was really smart, and I don't remember who did. But they said, if you're not bailing water for the first six months on any job, then you didn't challenge yourself. The last perfect job in the NFL was Green Bay Matt Lafleur four years with Aaron Rodgers and two playoff wins. This is not like other jobs. You got players, you got personnel. Generally, when you take over a job, it's a weird owner, an incompetent GM, a bad roster, gotta find a quarterback now that they've got like two issues here, not a lot of cap space for several years. And the Russell Wilson thing. He was so good for a long time and then last year he was awful. What do you do? Don't kid yourself. Two things are important to know here. This was a job for a veteran offensive coach. Damiko Ryan's wasn't the right fit. You need somebody who was dealt with crap egos, roadblocks, maneuvering. This is not a first timer's job, and it's not a defensive coach's job. If you look at many of the places that have turned it around, quick McVeigh with the Rams, Andy Read with Kansas City, Brian Dable with the Giants. It's an offensive coach who figures out the quarterback position. And I don't know exactly about the Russell Wilson thing. I don't know him well enough to have a strong, strong opinion on him personally. But he was really, really good. And I said all year, there's no precedent for being one hundred four passer rating, one hundred six passer rating, one hundred three passer rating, on hundred three passer rating, the worst player in the world. It doesn't work like that. He didn't have a major injury. He's still pre thirty five. So if Brian Dabele can solve Daniel Jones with a bad roster, I think Sean Payton can solve Russell Wilson with a good roster. I sat down for four and a half hours talking to Peyton about three weeks ago. We talked about everything. He loved the city. What do you know about Denver? I'm like, it's a great American city, Rocky Mountain, Sinair, great people, big brand. I always called at the Steelers with a mountain range. They've almost always been competent. Elway good, Peyton Manning winning Super Bowls, Orange Crush. They've always been competent. They've never been the Texans, They've never been the Lions right for an extended period. The owners are rich. They've got players everywhere. At every unit, there's a really really good player. Not Niners or Philadelphia, but really really good players. They won five games this morning. The over under on wins is eight and a half. It'll move to nine. Yeah, that feels right. What about Mahomes? What about him? Chargers made the playoffs. Mahomes is in the division and they don't even have a coach we like. So I don't think it's easy. I don't think they have cultural problems in Denver. They played Kansas City great late, they played well down the stretch. They don't have a weird owner. They've got a rich one. It's what Sean Payton does, solves quarterbacks. Jamis Winston had his highest passer rating was Sean Breeze became a Hall of Famer and one Bridge Bridgewater like five and one with him or five and oh with him. A couple of years ago, when Breeze got hurt, the job needed an offensive coach. Harbor and Sean Payton were and should have been the people that got strong, strong consideration. He's gonna make them better. But yes, the job is complicated. You can talk yourself out of it. I thought multiple times he was in, and then multiple times he was out. It's not easy the new guy running Netflix. You got dudes too, You've got personnel too, you got money too. It's layered. You got issues, that whole streaming thing, hemorrhaging a lot of money, and that whole Broncos thing. What's tough with Russell. I don't have the answers, But solving quarterbacks is what Sean Payton has always done. By the way, we had Sean Payton on the show multiple times and I asked him about, you know, fixing Russ and about how the relationship goes with a quarterback, and he talked about the plays the week of the game, what you use, what you don't, how to make the quarterback comfortable. Drew and I would discuss hey at the end of the week. On Saturday, we'd be at the hotel. We'd finish the team meeting, finished the offensive meeting. The last thing we'd do before game day Sunday would be adopt meeting, where we'd go through, you know, the plays in each section. Let's talk about the play acs from pass. I want to know your top three now after the week's finished, and i'd sharpe these three, and I want to call those plays that he likes. And then I always wanted to know, Hey, is there something you didn't like? And periodically, not often, but periodically he might say, hey, I don't feel comfortable with that. I don't feel like we got a good enough look with that this week, and I just put a line through. Then we'd want to set up the look in practice where it simulated the Chargers defense, and you want to get a rep or two where you're like, ah, I see it. It feels good. Yeah, it's what Sean does, is what the Broncos need, so it should work. And pretty quickly, he's also replays a coach that was completely over his skis. So I'll go back to it. If Brian Dabele can get Daniel Jones and that roster into the playoffs and win a playoff game, yeah, I think Sean Paynton's gonna make Denver better quickly. Super Bowls. No idea beating Mahomes, no idea competent, Absolutely be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays and noon Easter nine am Pacific. So over twenty three years, Tom Brady missed just just nineteen games, fifteen for a torn acl and then there was like that deflate gate thing. Three things that jump out to me on a day in which Tom retired. Number one, durability is not random, Lebron and Tom Brady. It's not random. They live the right way, they eat right, they recover, They spend millions of dollars on their bodies, so it's not just random. You know, smart people equal smart habits, equal smart lives. If you look in society who ages well, it's people that do everything in moderation. If they drink, it's light social drinking. They have a good safety net of friends, animals, people that make them happy, lots of love, don't eat too much, don't drink too much, don't smoke, don't take huge physical risks. You've seen people that age well and look great at sixty. It's not a coincidence. I mean, obviously some people get you know, bad luck with genetics. I totally get that, But you know, Brady Russell Wilson, you look at a lot of the athletes that have aged very very well. They are totally utterly committed to their bodies. The second thing is, you know, Brady was never about anything other than winning. You really see it in social media. A lot of athletes or status driven or money driven or me driven. Tom was winning driven. And it sounds really simple, and there's a lot of athletes like that. And I've always understood in that first contract, you know, make as much as you can. But Brady took a lot of paycuts pre Jizelle, post Gazelle, during Jizelle. That's just what he did. Winning is what drove his career. And I believe this to be true. You'll make money, what you want to do is win. You win everything, endorsements, you curry favor with owners, teammates, businesses, affiliates. Just win. Brady figured that out really really quickly. Just win. Everything else takes care of itself. Make the thing the thing, don't get sidetracked. The third thing, he won three MVPs and in none of those years did he win a Super Bowl. And I think that's significant. Brady this year led the NFL in attempts and completions, so he through more than he's ever thrown the last two years and completed more passes than he's ever completed in the last couple of years, and yet they were two of the most anemic offenses he was ever on. Is that balance is a real thing. We said this all year about the Buffalo Bills. You have no balance. You are completely utterly Josh Allen reliant. Joe Burrow's good, they have a run game, they have great receivers. Patrick Mahomes is great. They got a power runner, They've got good receivers, they have a clever offensive coach, they rebuilt their offensive line. The Bills are all in on Josh Allen everything he plays. Party they lose, there's no chance. So what's interesting is Tom left New England because he didn't have weapons, and then in the end he left Tampa in football because it was all he had in Tampa. Weapons. Not sure about the coach, the coordinator, the culture, the structure. I always had this belief with Tom is that deep down, Aaron Rodgers wants to stay. Deep down, Tom Brady wants to stay. People don't like to buy a new home. People don't like change people. We're all like this. I would talk to a psychologist once about this. There's a reason people generally eat two or three things for breakfast. They have two or three things because when we wake up in the morning, we have habits, and over the course of a day, our habits get loose. You thought you were going to eat well all day. You go into cookies and snacks. You thought you were gonna work out. You don't have time for it. You thought you were going to do this. Yeah, but our days mostly start the same, the same habits. We shower, same shampoo, same drive to work. We have mostly the same breakfast at the same time. And then over the course of a day, our life, you know, doesn't go as planned. We don't have the discipline. Emotionally, we're up, we're down. I think most most athletes want want to stay and do what Jeter did and do what Steph Curry's doing. But they fire a good coach, you'll lose a good teammate. The owner doesn't respect you. There's a lot of reasons people changed. I always thought that Tom really wanted to stay in New England. But two things happened. The Patriots went after Stefon Diggs, and they finished second to Buffalo. If Stefon Diggs goes to New England and they land him, then all those other average receivers, that's okay, we got our ace. Stefan has ninety five catches, twelve touchdowns. Everybody else fills out the roster. Brady wanted a star receiver, and he also wanted a little more say and respect, And maybe he would have left anyway, but I always felt like that was a thing. But he knew the coach was great, and knew the defense was great. He knew the division was wonky, he knew the running backs were good, he knew the old line was good. New England doesn't give up thirty points regularly. You don't have to win his the ages by shootout. I think he really wanted to stay. And it's really a cautionary tale about the ego of Belichick. If Belichick would have relented his ego and just said, we're gonna overpay for Stefon Diggs, and I'm gonna give Tom a little more respect and power. I mean, Tom Brady. Remember this when Tom left New England, Remember how odd it was, how respectful he was of Cam Newton. He gave Brady a game ball as last year in Tampa, and Belichick looked uncomfortable. Cam Newton, who was a shot fighter, came to New England and Belichick was, Oh, it's unbelievable, what a great the best work at Oh. But I never heard him saying that about Brady. He had a press release when he was gone. But it was like a lot of this. Tom wanted to stay. I think all athletes want to stay. I mean, wouldn't it be great if you could grow up in a house and your mom or your dad started company, and then you say, you go to the same drive through restaurant, you have the same friends, you're in the same softball league. Most of us leave not because we want to. I left because I had to. There were no jobs. It would be awesome if you didn't have to bounce around the country. It would be awesome if you could always stay. But there's a reason he left. Belichick gave more praise to Cam Newton six months later than he needed to Brady in twenty years. And they wouldn't pay for Steffon Diggs, and they wouldn't spend money on the perimeter offensively as the game was pivoting to an offensive league. The other thing is that in football, you don't have to be graded at everything, you really do. I mean, Kansas City's got some issues. Philadelphia nout because they're not paying their quarterback. San Francisco in Philadelphia don't have a lot of issues. That's very very rare. There's always a team or two like that. But the minute Philadelphia, if they win, everybody wants to get paid. They're gonna lose some free agents, one or two old guys, retire their roster next year likely not as good. So when you get it like this, got to win super Bowls, which is why I speculated San Francisco would go after Brady, because Kittle, Trent Williams, Davils, Deebo, Samuel's, Christian McCaffrey. These guys aren't gonna last forever. A lot of injuries, a lot of years, a lot of miles on those tires. But in New England they got really bad at something wide receiver, like really really bad, and it put more and more pressure on Tom, and I think in the end he made the right decision. He said, you know what I want. People generally leave and when they do leave, it's because of one or two things they didn't get at the other place. Tom wanted to say he got it, and he wanted receivers, and he got it. He didn't get the culture, he didn't get the coach, he didn't get the discipline, he didn't get the academic nature, he didn't get the defense consistently. He didn't get Donte Scarneckie. But he got more say and he got great receivers. Three years, three playoffs, in a Super Bowl too. That's not bad. One more Heard. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you like. Well, Eric Mangini spent years and years with Tom Brady, who announced on the beach he is retiring. I hope he takes some time to himself. He's such an intense guy. I always see when people retire, they always jump back into stuff, and I'm like, dude, been a rough year. Family takes some time, take a deep breath. So when you know you saw the early Tom, the aging Tom, the star Tom, you know I said earlier. Obviously he got richer and more famous, but he was still always sort of driven values, intensity, like, I don't think he changed that much. Hell, he still looks like he's twenty nine years old. He even on all the success, I still feel like I know kind of what Tom's about your thoughts on that when I when I talked to my kids about Tom Brady, the thing that to me that makes him great is no matter how much fame he had, how much success he had, how much money he had, he worked the same way every day. And that's that's really hard to do. And that the young guy that that came in New England, a sixth round draft pick that had that wasn't very good that first year at all. When when he was sitting and watching and struggling after practice and our one on ones against the DBS, he just he just consistently worked at it and took the same approach. And then when he had success, he did the same thing. And he treated people extremely well. He was kind to everybody. He embraced people that came in the locker room. It's it's such a rare combination to have that much uh success and and that much humility, and it's it's something you know, I hope for my kids that they can strive for those type of traits. Yeah, you know, it's it's gonna send a ripple through the market. My first thought is Kyle Shanahan went bummer and Derek Carr went show me the money, you know, because it here's the other thing. So let's say you ran the Packers and in the last seventy two hours the Niners are a massive question market. Quarterback Tom Brady retires in Philadelphia. If they win the Super Bowl, everybody's gonna want to get paid. And I thought this morning, I thought, is Green Bay saying, you know we're gonna sleep on this Aaron Rodgers to the Titans or Jets thing? It does what Tom retiring If I'm in the NFC, it does make me pause for a second, doesn't it. Eric. Well, look, if I'm the Packers, I wouldn't be thinking about getting rid of Aaron Rodgers at all, regardless of how frustrating he's better or any of the problems he may have created. And I know Jay Mack was just talking about not wanting him at the Jets. But you've got Zach Wilson versus is Aaron Rodgers. Yeah No, it's really fun. Winning winning is winning is a lot of fun. And when you could upgrade your quarterback situation that dramatically, They should they should back up the vault or whatever they need to do to get him, because the Jets aren't that far away. But if you're if you're Green Bay, yeah, he may be difficult to deal with. But life without an MVP caliber quarterback that's really hard. That's really hard, and and they may learn that pretty quickly if they move on from him. And Jordan loves not the guy they hope he is. You know, we were talking about Sean Payton, so uh, Kansas City alex Andy Reid took the Chiefs from two wins to eleven one year, UM, Sean McVay four to eleven with golf one year. Uh, Doug Peterson worst team in the league, the playoffs one year. Brian Dable joke to a playoff win in one year is that if you get the right code, you can solve stuff, especially in twenty twenty three and offensive coach, you can solve stuff pretty quickly. I think Sean's gonna make Denver better because I went, I went this morning to the depth chart in PFF. They've got a lot of good players. This is not like the Texans. What to you is a reasonable idea, a reasonable prediction next year? What from five wins to what is reasonable in your opinion? Well, well, it depends, Colin. They obviously made a huge upgrade in terms of experience and and and credibility and all those things would bring Sean in and now it's a function of also getting getting Russell Wilson back in line. And I think Russell Wilson came in and he ran things organizationally, and now with Sean there, that that dynamic is going to change back to head coach then then quarterback and that could be a really positive thing for Russell. It's gonna be interesting to see how the systems fused together because Sean's traditionally done a lot of shifting and motioning and multiple formations and no huddle and significant game planning, where Russell Wilson's been more on the stationary side from a from a offensive perspective. So do you cater it for Russell Wilson or do you create some sort of fusion or do you adapt Sean's system that that that's going to be something that that they have to work through. It's not a lot of draft capital. They're not in bad shape from a salary cap perspective, but you wish there was a little more from a draft perspective, so they could get quick better quicker. Yeah, uh, you know, three games improvement. I don't think is unreasonable with with adding a head coach like seanpin them. The Super Bowl matchup is interesting. We were talking about this. The better team in terms of roster is Philadelphia. They just have more elite players um and then viosly, the better quarterback is Mahomes. Go back to your early Brady Super Bowls because Jalen Hurts as a big difference between playing at home and playing the Giants and playing the Niners without Brock Purdy and playing Mahomes and Patrick. This is another day at the office, Jalen, This is a big moment. I think Mahomes actually can put pressure on you because you know you're you know you're on the same telecast in the same comparison. Take Tom's early Super Bowls when he was young, like Hurts. Was he nervous that it changed the game plan? Did you come out a little slower did you consider his lack of experience in that stage? Or remember Colin, we only had three offensive touchsigns in our first Super Bowl run and Drew Bledsoe through one of those in the AFC Championship game when Tom got thinged up, so we we weren't looking at it from the perspective of Tom had had to win the game for us, and and Jalen to me, has a really great perspective on things. He has a great perspective on the success he's had, He's had a great perspective on where the team was throughout the course of the season and not looking too far ahead. He seems grounded, and that's the most important thing for me, is that he doesn't get too much put on his shoulders and he doesn't feel the way to the world on his shoulders, because because that's where where he'll get in trouble. I do think he needs to play better than he did last game. Yeah, they need to find a way to exploit the young secondary of the Chiefs and on those quarterback driven runs. He needs to be better as a runner where he's really been strong. But he doesn't need to win the game on his own. They're collectively a really good team and let the game. Let the game unfold and they'll be fine. When you were with the Patriots and you felt you had a better roster, would you coach differently if you felt like, guys, our units are depths better. We always looked at it from the perspective of how how can the other team hurt us? And we were going to make sure that we eliminated the ways that they could hurt us. And Bill Belichick is one of the best that at identifying those things and making sure we were always hyper aware of it. It wasn't it wasn't about coaching a different way. It was just making sure that everybody understood what we had to do to achieve our objectives and they were very clearly outlined, and we didn't expect people to go outside of that plan. We just expected people to hold up their end of the bargain within that plan. Finally, do you have a favorite Tom Brady moment, story, experience practice? I know I'm kind of catching you off guard here, but when you think of Brady, are there a couple of moments that kind of, you know, kind of a good laugh with Tom? You know? Was he a good sport when people make fun of him? When you think of Tom, what do you think of? Look, there's there's the football moments. It's that that drive at the end of the first Super Bowl, which was incredible when John Madden said we should probably take a knee and play for overtime. There was the third and three play against Carolina where he throws a fifteen yard out to Dion Brands to set up the field goal for Venytary at the end of that game. I mean, those moments were incredible. But working with Tom and we had we used to have rookie classes that I ran with Brian day Ball and Tom having to come into those classes, and and just him as a young guy a six round draft trick, trying to figure it out. We had three other quarterbacks on the roster. Drew Bledsoe had just gotten one hundred million dollar contract extension, and in retrospect, I appreciate his work ethic and and there are a lot of things working against him, especially that first year for him to even stay on the roster, But but his character. We used to run on the treadmill next to each other. Believe it or not, I ran on the treadmill and we'd always be able to spend some time there just talking about could be a range of things, because look, I was a young guy at the time in New England and he was a young guy too, so there are a lot of relatable moments at that point. Eric Manginie, great seeing you here on a Wednesday, Tom Brady's retired coach, Thanks for stopping by late notice for us. Thanks for bringing in your fun friend on a Wednesday. Two NBA Insiders podcasting twice a week to plug you right into the NBA great fight, all happening in only one place. This League Uncut, the new NBA podcast with me Chris Haynes and me Mark Stein join us as we team up to expound on everything we're covering. Hearing and Jason. Listen to This League Uncut with Chris Haynes in Mark Stein on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Here's what's crazy is that whenever I make predictions, like in the NFL this year, I said, the team that's going to win a lot more than you think is Minnesota. I thought it was obvious because they lost all these one score games. I said they're gonna win at least half of them. So I said, watch Minnesota win the division without Davonte Adams. Green bayle pullback. That felt obvious. Green Bay was going to be weapon light Minnesota if they want half of their one score games. I didn't predict they'd go eleven and oz on one score games, but I said it was an easy one, and I was right. The idea that people don't think Sean Payton is gonna work in Denver. Let's just remember this. So they had Paul Hackett, the most overmatched coach in the league, Nathaniel Nathaniel Hackett was his father. Nathaniel Hackett literally in the first game on television against Seattle, the very first game, it was a s show, a circus at the end of the game with timeouts. It was a disaster. With Nathaniel Hackett and an interim in a tough division, they won five games. You don't think Sean Payton, who has a chance to be a Hall of Fame coach, can get him to ten. They lost three games this year in overtime. That's almost unheard of historically. They were four and nine in one score games with an incompetent coach, and many of their best players are young players who will get better with an elite coach. Denver's gonna be way better. Now. I'm not saying Super Bowl, especially in the AFC. You put Denver in the NFC. I'd have no problem saying they got a chance to play in the NFC Championship. AFC's a whole different ballgame. You got the Mahomes and Herbert factor. But folks, they lost three games in overtime and six more by one possession. This is the easiest bet in Vegas. This is going to be the most improved team in the league. Now. I don't know if they get to eleven twelve, but nine from five is a gimme. Look at their schedule. They have a last place schedule. They get the Bears, they get the Texans, they get the Jets, they get the Commanders, they get the Browns, and by the way, they got the Raiders in their own division. They've played the Chiefs tough both games last year, played them tough. They matched up very well with the Kansas City Chiefs. So when a team loses three games in overtime, that is unprecedented. I mean even bad teams, which Denver was, usually get lucky in overtime. So they go oh and three in overtime. Nine of their losses were one score. Their defense is really good. Their schedule is going to be easier. You don't think they can get the nine wins or ten