You might assume that people who study happiness for a living have it all figured out. But even happiness experts struggle to follow their own advice. They know the science behind feeling happier, managing difficult emotions, and building healthier habits — but putting that knowledge into practice is another story. Why is it so hard to do the things we know are good for us?

In a live conversation recorded at SXSW, Dr. Laurie gets personal with her good friend, psychologist Ethan Kross, about the times they've struggled to practice what they preach. Together, they explore the psychological biases that can get in our way and share science-backed strategies for managing difficult emotions, building better habits, and turning that knowledge into action.

Experts Mentioned:
Ethan Kross, Professor of Psychology at the University of Michigan 
Tamar Gendler, Professor of Philosophy and Dean of the Faculty of Arts and Sciences at Yale University 
Gabriele Oettingen, Professor of Psychology at New York University and the University of Hamburg
Carey Morewedge, Professor of Marketing at Boston University 
Christina Maslach, Professor Emerita of Psychology at the University of California, Berkeley
Kristin Neff, Associate Professor of Educational Psychology at the University of Texas at Austin

ResourcesMentioned:
Shift: Managing Your Emotions — So They Don't Manage You, by Ethan Kross (2025)
Chatter: The Voice in Our Head, Why It Matters, and How to Harness It, by Ethan Kross (2021)
“Knowing is Half the Battle,” by Laurie Santos and Tamar Gendler (Edge, 2014)
Müller-Lyer Illusion
“Exploring Solomon’s Paradox: Self-Distancing Eliminates the Self-Other Asymmetry in Wise Reasoning About Close Relationships in Younger and Older Adults,” by Igor Grossmann and Ethan Kross (Psychological Science, 2014)
WOOP: Wish, Outcome, Obstacle, Plan
Rethinking Positive Thinking: Inside the New Science of Motivation, by Gabriele Oettingen (2014)
“Thought for Food: Imagined Consumption Reduces Actual Consumption,” by Carey Morewedge, Young Eun Huh, and Joachim Vosgerau (Science, 2010)
“Forming a flossing habit: an exploratory study of the psychological determinants of habit formation,” by Gaby Judah, Benjamin Gardner, and Robert Aunger (British Journal of Health Psychology, 2013)
How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be, by Katy Milkman (2021)
Burnout: The Cost of Caring, by Christina Maslach (1982)
Self-Compassion: The Proven Power of Being Kind to Yourself, by Kristin Neff (2011)
“Self-Perception Theory,” by Daryl J. Bem (Advances in Experimental Social Psychology, 1972)
“Emotion Controllability Beliefs and Young People's Anxiety and Depression Symptoms: A Systematic Review,” by Matthew Somerville, Helen MacIntyre, Amy Harrison, and Iris Mauss (Adolescent Research Review, 2024)
“Implicit theories of emotion: Affective and social outcomes across a major life transition,” by Maya Tamir, Oliver John, Sanjay Srivastava, and James Gross (Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 2007)

Related Episodes:
“For Whom the Alarm Clock Tolls”
“Harnessing People Around us to Feel Happier (Live with Ethan Kross)”
“Coach Yourself Through a Crisis”
“Don’t Accentuate the Positive”

You might assume that people who study happiness for a living have it all figured out. But even happiness experts struggle to follow their own advice. They know the science behind feeling happier, managing difficult emotions, and building healthier habits &mdash; but putting that knowledge into practice is another story. Why is it so hard to do the things we know are good for us?
In a live conversation recorded at SXSW, Dr. Laurie gets personal with her good friend, psychologist <a href="https://www.ethankross.com/" data-airgap-id="12">Ethan Kross</a>, about the times they've struggled to practice what they preach. Together, they explore the psychological biases that can get in our way and share science-backed strategies for managing difficult emotions, building better habits, and turning that knowledge into action.
Experts Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.ethankross.com/" data-airgap-id="13">Ethan Kross</a>, Professor of Psychology at the University of Michigan&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://tamar-gendler.yale.edu/" data-airgap-id="14">Tamar Gendler</a>, Professor of Philosophy and Dean of the Faculty of Arts and Sciences at Yale University&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://as.nyu.edu/faculty/gabriele-oettingen.html?challenge=d06e90d7-4d8f-4b88-9d8c-10b73beb60f1" data-airgap-id="15">Gabriele Oettingen</a>, Professor of Psychology at New York University and the University of Hamburg</li>
<li><a href="https://www.bu.edu/questrom/profiles/carey-morewedge/" data-airgap-id="16">Carey Morewedge</a>, Professor of Marketing at Boston University&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://psychology.berkeley.edu/people/christina-maslach" data-airgap-id="17">Christina Maslach</a>, Professor Emerita of Psychology at the University of California, Berkeley</li>
<li><a href="https://self-compassion.org/kristin-neff/" data-airgap-id="18">Kristin Neff</a>, Associate Professor of Educational Psychology at the University of Texas at Austin</li>
</ul>
Resources Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FDM3YWCJ?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="19">Shift: Managing Your Emotions &mdash; So They Don't Manage You</a>, by Ethan Kross (2025)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Chatter-Voice-Head-Matters-Harness/dp/0525575243/ref=pd_sbs_d_sccl_1_1/140-6454301-7752957?pd_rd_w=mVewq&amp;content-id=amzn1.sym.0cb10f30-7cd4-4985-9826-58b2c1174c19&amp;pf_rd_p=0cb10f30-7cd4-4985-9826-58b2c1174c19&amp;pf_rd_r=ABMKS3Y0F6YVJXNKHBQ0&amp;pd_rd_wg=RrK7T&amp;pd_rd_r=9a45f829-7310-4fd8-982d-9e756a7ace2d&amp;pd_rd_i=0525575243&amp;psc=1" data-airgap-id="20">Chatter: The Voice in Our Head, Why It Matters, and How to Harness It</a>, by Ethan Kross (2021)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://edge.org/response-detail/25436" data-airgap-id="21">Knowing is Half the Battle</a>,&rdquo; by Laurie Santos and Tamar Gendler (Edge, 2014)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.illusionsindex.org/i/mueller-lyer" data-airgap-id="22">M&uuml;ller-Lyer Illusion</a></li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797614535400" data-airgap-id="23">Exploring Solomon&rsquo;s Paradox: Self-Distancing Eliminates the Self-Other Asymmetry in Wise Reasoning About Close Relationships in Younger and Older Adults</a>,&rdquo; by Igor Grossmann and Ethan Kross (Psychological Science, 2014)</li>
<li><a href="https://woopmylife.org/" data-airgap-id="24">WOOP: Wish, Outcome, Obstacle, Plan</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/1617230235?lv=shuf&amp;hvlocphy=9004400&amp;hvptwo=&amp;hvnetw=g&amp;mcid=&amp;hvext=372760583920&amp;hvadid=812934654163&amp;language=en_US&amp;hvpone=&amp;hvlocint=&amp;hvcampaign=23946702649&amp;hydadcr=18332_13883056_2506321&amp;hvpos=&amp;hvdev=c&amp;hvdvcmdl=&amp;hvocijid=3252593176508449974--&amp;hvqmt=a&amp;hvexpln=0&amp;tag=smgglusdsadts-20&amp;hvtargid=kwl-2484167636399&amp;adgrpid=197419383573&amp;hvrand=3252593176508449974&amp;channelId=500&amp;ref_=&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="25">Rethinking Positive Thinking: Inside the New Science of Motivation</a>, by Gabriele Oettingen (2014)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.1195701?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D28872292537646828261101212917072275688%7CMCORGID%3D242B6472541199F70A4C98A6%2540AdobeOrg%7CTS%3D1791912116" data-airgap-id="26">Thought for Food: Imagined Consumption Reduces Actual Consumption</a>,&rdquo; by Carey Morewedge, Young Eun Huh, and Joachim Vosgerau (Science, 2010)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22989272/" data-airgap-id="27">Forming a flossing habit: an exploratory study of the psychological determinants of habit formation</a>,&rdquo; by Gaby Judah, Benjamin Gardner, and Robert Aunger (British Journal of Health Psychology, 2013)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/059308375X?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="28">How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be</a>, by Katy Milkman (2021)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/013091231X?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="29">Burnout: The Cost of Caring</a>, by Christina Maslach (1982)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/0061733520?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="30">Self-Compassion: The Proven Power of Being Kind to Yourself</a>, by Kristin Neff (2011)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/chapter/bookseries/abs/pii/S0065260108600246" data-airgap-id="31">Self-Perception Theory</a>,&rdquo; by Daryl J. Bem (Advances in Experimental Social Psychology, 1972)</li>
<li><a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38410118/" data-airgap-id="32">&ldquo;Emotion Controllability Beliefs and Young People's Anxiety and Depression Symptoms: A Systematic Review</a>,&rdquo; by Matthew Somerville, Helen MacIntyre, Amy Harrison, and Iris Mauss (Adolescent Research Review, 2024)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2F0022-3514.92.4.731" data-airgap-id="33">Implicit theories of emotion: Affective and social outcomes across a major life transition</a>,&rdquo; by Maya Tamir, Oliver John, Sanjay Srivastava, and James Gross (Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 2007)</li>
</ul>
Related Episodes:
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/for-whom-the-alarm-clock-tolls" data-airgap-id="34">For Whom the Alarm Clock Tolls</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/harnessing-people-around-us-to-feel-happier-live-with-ethan-kross" data-airgap-id="35">Harnessing People Around us to Feel Happier (Live with Ethan Kross)</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/bonus-coach-yourself-through-a-crisis" data-airgap-id="36">Coach Yourself Through a Crisis</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/dont-accentuate-the-positive" data-airgap-id="37">Don&rsquo;t Accentuate the Positive</a>&rdquo;</li>
</ul>

The Happiness Lab is serving up scientifically-backed takes this summer that are so hot, even your SPF 50 won’t protect you.

With the help of behavioral scientists, historians, and cultural critics, Yale psychologist Dr. Laurie Santos challenges some of our biggest assumptions about what it takes to live a good life. Dr. Laurie explores topics like why we should forget about TMI and lean into oversharing, how dumping small talk makes for better conversations, why the kids these days are actually doing just fine, and how men can establish strong bromances. Each episode unpacks a bold, counterintuitive claim — using research, data, and expert insight to question the conventional wisdom around happiness and wellbeing.

The Happiness Lab is serving up scientifically-backed takes this summer that are so hot, even your SPF 50 won&rsquo;t protect you.
With the help of behavioral scientists, historians, and cultural critics, Yale psychologist Dr. Laurie Santos challenges some of our biggest assumptions about what it takes to live a good life. Dr. Laurie explores topics like why we should forget about TMI and lean into oversharing, how dumping small talk makes for better conversations, why the kids these days are actually doing just fine, and how men can establish strong bromances. Each episode unpacks a bold, counterintuitive claim &mdash;&nbsp;using research, data, and expert insight to question the conventional wisdom around happiness and wellbeing.

The Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos

Why Happiness Experts Still Struggle to Be Happy with Dr. Ethan Kross

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/8cb1910d-ce4a-41cb-a219-b4e800146a2a/transcript