When we’re struggling to reach a goal, most of us assume the answer is to buckle down and try harder. But what if all that white-knuckling is actually making things more difficult than they need to be?

Dr. Laurie speaks with psychologist Angela Duckworth, best known for her groundbreaking work on grit, about a surprising new approach to achievement. In her new book, Situated: Find the People and Places That Bring Out Your Best, Angela explains why changing what’s around us can sometimes be more effective than trying to change ourselves.

Experts Mentioned:
Angela Duckworth, Professor of Psychology at the University of Pennsylvania 
Lee Ross, Professor of Psychology at Stanford University 
Richard Nisbett, Professor Emeritus of Psychology at the University of Michigan 
James Gross, Professor of Psychology at Stanford University 
Adrian Ward, Associate Professor of Marketing at University of Texas at Austin
Joseph Henrich, Professor of Biological Anthropology and Professor of Human Evolutionary Biology at Harvard University
Bob Bowman, Director of Swimming and Diving and Head Men’s Coach at University of Texas at Austin
Martin Seligman, Professor of Psychology at the University of Pennsylvania
Anders Ericsson, Professor of Psychology at Florida State University
Walter Mischel, Professor Emeritus of Psychology at Columbia University
Reinhold Niebuhr, Protestant theologian
Viktor Frankl, Austrian psychiatrist and neurologist

Resources Mentioned:
Situated: Find the People and Places That Bring Out Your Best, by Angela Duckworth (2026)
Grit: The Power and Passion of Perseverance, by Angela Duckworth (2016)
The Person and the Situation: Perspectives on Social Psychology, by Lee Ross and Richard Nisbett (1991)
Frog and Toad Together, by Arnold Lobel (1972)
Man's Search for Meaning, by Viktor Frankl (1946)
“The Serenity Prayer,” by Reinhold Niebuhr
The Art of War, by Sun Tzu
The Golden Rules: 10 Steps to World-Class Excellence in Your Life and Work, by Bob Bowman (2016)
“A Stitch in Time: Strategic Self-Control in High School and College Students,” by Angela Duckworth, Rachel White, Alyssa Matteucci, Annie Shearer, and James Gross (Journal of Educational Psychology, 2016)
“Self-Control and Academic Achievement,” by Angela Duckworth, Jamie Taxer, Lauren Eskreis-Winkler, Brian Galla, and James Gross (Annual Review of Psychology, 2019)
“Self-control and SAT outcomes: Evidence from two national field studies,” by Chayce Baldwin, Kyla Haimovitz, Priya Shankar, Robert Gallop, David Yeager, James Gross, and Angela Duckworth (PLoS One, 2022)
“Situational Strategies for Self-Control,” by Angela Duckworth, Tamar Szabó Gendler, and James Gross (Perspectives on Psychological Science, 2016)
“Brain Drain: The Mere Presence of One's Own Smartphone Reduces Available Cognitive Capacity,” by Adrian Ward, Kristen Duke, Ayelet Gneezy, and Maarten Bos. (Journal of the Association for Consumer Research, 2017)
“A 2-Phase Labeling and Choice Architecture Intervention to Improve Healthy Food and Beverage Choices,” by Anne N Thorndike, Lillian Sonnenberg, Jason Riis, Susan Barraclough, and Douglas E Levy (American Journal of Public Health, 2012)
“Innovation in the collective brain,” by Michael Muthukrishna and Joseph Henrich (Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B, 2016)

Related Episodes:
“Your Environment Affects Your Happiness More Than You Think with Dr. Leidy Klotz”
“How to Spend Your Time and Money Better (with Nobel Prize Winner Richard Thaler)”
“The Man Who Invented Happiness Science: Marty Seligman”
“How Our Screen Habits Impact Our Stress Levels”

When we&rsquo;re struggling to reach a goal, most of us assume the answer is to buckle down and try harder. But what if all that white-knuckling is actually making things more difficult than they need to be?
Dr. Laurie speaks with psychologist Angela Duckworth, best known for her groundbreaking work on grit, about a surprising new approach to achievement. In her new book, <a href="https://www.angeladuckworth.com/situated" data-airgap-id="11">Situated: Find the People and Places That Bring Out Your Best</a>, Angela explains why changing what&rsquo;s around us can sometimes be more effective than trying to change ourselves.
Experts Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.angeladuckworth.com/" data-airgap-id="12">Angela Duckworth</a>, Professor of Psychology at the University of Pennsylvania&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://spsp.org/membership/awards/heritage-wall/ross" data-airgap-id="13">Lee Ross</a>, Professor of Psychology at Stanford University&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://lsa.umich.edu/psych/people/emeriti-faculty/nisbett.html" data-airgap-id="14">Richard Nisbett</a>, Professor Emeritus of Psychology at the University of Michigan&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://spl.stanford.edu/people/james-gross" data-airgap-id="15">James Gross</a>, Professor of Psychology at Stanford University&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://www.adrianfward.com/" data-airgap-id="16">Adrian Ward</a>, Associate Professor of Marketing at University of Texas at Austin</li>
<li><a href="https://henrich.fas.harvard.edu/" data-airgap-id="17">Joseph Henrich</a>, Professor of Biological Anthropology and Professor of Human Evolutionary Biology at Harvard University</li>
<li><a href="https://texaslonghorns.com/staff-directory/bob-bowman/1935" data-airgap-id="18">Bob Bowman</a>, Director of Swimming and Diving and Head Men&rsquo;s Coach at University of Texas at Austin</li>
<li><a href="https://ppc.sas.upenn.edu/people/martin-ep-seligman" data-airgap-id="19">Martin Seligman</a>, Professor of Psychology at the University of Pennsylvania</li>
<li><a href="https://psychology.fsu.edu/article/k-anders-ericsson-1947-2020-worlds-foremost-expert-expert-performance" data-airgap-id="20">Anders Ericsson</a>, Professor of Psychology at Florida State University</li>
<li><a href="https://psychology.columbia.edu/news/memoriam-walter-mischel-psychologist-who-developed-pioneering-marshmallow-test" data-airgap-id="21">Walter Mischel</a>, Professor Emeritus of Psychology at Columbia University</li>
<li><a href="https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/niebuhr-reinhold" data-airgap-id="22">Reinhold Niebuhr</a>, Protestant theologian</li>
<li><a href="https://viktorfranklamerica.com/viktor-frankl-bio/" data-airgap-id="23">Viktor Frankl</a>, Austrian psychiatrist and neurologist</li>
</ul>
Resources Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.angeladuckworth.com/situated" data-airgap-id="24">Situated: Find the People and Places That Bring Out Your Best</a>, by Angela Duckworth (2026)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.angeladuckworth.com/grit" data-airgap-id="25">Grit: The Power and Passion of Perseverance</a>, by Angela Duckworth (2016)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Person-Situation-Perspectives-Social-Psychology/dp/1905177445/ref=sims_dp_d_dex_popular_subs_t3_v6_d_sccl_1_1/135-5116501-0386104?pd_rd_w=5MqeV&amp;content-id=amzn1.sym.b853d215-90db-49b5-bd69-9909dc4557b0&amp;pf_rd_p=b853d215-90db-49b5-bd69-9909dc4557b0&amp;pf_rd_r=FV8M7PZRSTZVKWQZS56N&amp;pd_rd_wg=9T8IA&amp;pd_rd_r=bcfac8fb-fea4-4498-a791-95ab273da560&amp;pd_rd_i=1905177445&amp;psc=1" data-airgap-id="26">The Person and the Situation: Perspectives on Social Psychology</a>, by Lee Ross and Richard Nisbett (1991)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/0064440214?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="27">Frog and Toad Together</a>, by Arnold Lobel (1972)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/s?k=man%27s+search+for+meaning&amp;channelId=500&amp;clpRedir=Y&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="28">Man's Search for Meaning</a>, by Viktor Frankl (1946)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://archives.yalealumnimagazine.com/issues/2008_07/serenity.html" data-airgap-id="29">The Serenity Prayer</a>,&rdquo; by Reinhold Niebuhr</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/1494417278?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="30">The Art of War</a>, by Sun Tzu</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/125005950X?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="31">The Golden Rules: 10 Steps to World-Class Excellence in Your Life and Work</a>, by Bob Bowman (2016)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4856169/" data-airgap-id="32">A Stitch in Time: Strategic Self-Control in High School and College Students</a>,&rdquo; by Angela Duckworth, Rachel White, Alyssa Matteucci, Annie Shearer, and James Gross (Journal of Educational Psychology, 2016)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30609915/" data-airgap-id="33">Self-Control and Academic Achievement</a>,&rdquo; by Angela Duckworth, Jamie Taxer, Lauren Eskreis-Winkler, Brian Galla, and James Gross (Annual Review of Psychology, 2019)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36170325/" data-airgap-id="34">Self-control and SAT outcomes: Evidence from two national field studies</a>,&rdquo; by Chayce Baldwin, Kyla Haimovitz, Priya Shankar, Robert Gallop, David Yeager, James Gross, and Angela Duckworth (PLoS One, 2022)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4736542/" data-airgap-id="35">Situational Strategies for Self-Control</a>,&rdquo; by Angela Duckworth, Tamar Szab&oacute; Gendler, and James Gross (Perspectives on Psychological Science, 2016)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/691462" data-airgap-id="36">Brain Drain: The Mere Presence of One's Own Smartphone Reduces Available Cognitive Capacity</a>,&rdquo; by Adrian Ward, Kristen Duke, Ayelet Gneezy, and Maarten Bos. (Journal of the Association for Consumer Research, 2017)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22390518/" data-airgap-id="37">A 2-Phase Labeling and Choice Architecture Intervention to Improve Healthy Food and Beverage Choices</a>,&rdquo; by Anne N Thorndike, Lillian Sonnenberg, Jason Riis, Susan Barraclough, and Douglas E Levy (American Journal of Public Health, 2012)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://royalsocietypublishing.org/rstb/article/371/1690/20150192/22834/Innovation-in-the-collective-brainInnovation-in" data-airgap-id="38">Innovation in the collective brain</a>,&rdquo; by Michael Muthukrishna and Joseph Henrich (Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B, 2016)</li>
</ul>
Related Episodes:
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/your-environment-affects-your-happiness-more-than-you-think-with-dr-leidy-klotz" data-airgap-id="39">Your Environment Affects Your Happiness More Than You Think with Dr. Leidy Klotz</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/how-to-spend-your-time-and-money-better-with-nobel-prize-winner-richard-thaler" data-airgap-id="40">How to Spend Your Time and Money Better (with Nobel Prize Winner Richard Thaler)</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/the-man-who-invented-happiness-science-marty-seligman" data-airgap-id="41">The Man Who Invented Happiness Science: Marty Seligman</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/bonus-good-screens-and-bad-screens" data-airgap-id="42">How Our Screen Habits Impact Our Stress Levels</a>&rdquo;</li>
</ul>

The Happiness Lab is serving up scientifically-backed takes this summer that are so hot, even your SPF 50 won’t protect you.

With the help of behavioral scientists, historians, and cultural critics, Yale psychologist Dr. Laurie Santos challenges some of our biggest assumptions about what it takes to live a good life. Dr. Laurie explores topics like why we should forget about TMI and lean into oversharing, how dumping small talk makes for better conversations, why the kids these days are actually doing just fine, and how men can establish strong bromances. Each episode unpacks a bold, counterintuitive claim — using research, data, and expert insight to question the conventional wisdom around happiness and wellbeing.

The Happiness Lab is serving up scientifically-backed takes this summer that are so hot, even your SPF 50 won&rsquo;t protect you.
With the help of behavioral scientists, historians, and cultural critics, Yale psychologist Dr. Laurie Santos challenges some of our biggest assumptions about what it takes to live a good life. Dr. Laurie explores topics like why we should forget about TMI and lean into oversharing, how dumping small talk makes for better conversations, why the kids these days are actually doing just fine, and how men can establish strong bromances. Each episode unpacks a bold, counterintuitive claim &mdash;&nbsp;using research, data, and expert insight to question the conventional wisdom around happiness and wellbeing.

The Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos

Stop Doing Things the Hard Way with Dr. Angela Duckworth

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/14bc163c-5903-4695-9b4f-b4bb01138f13/transcript