Most of us default to small talk. It's polite, familiar, and feels like the safest way to start a conversation. But it may also be one of the biggest barriers to genuine connection.

Dr. Laurie speaks with author and metal-health advocate Claire Eastham about her month-long experiment replacing small talk with deeper conversations while living with social anxiety.  She also chats with psychologist Nicholas Epley about why going deeper often scares us, what research reveals about opening up, and what happens when you tell a stranger about the last time you cried.

Experts Mentioned:
Claire Eastham, author, blogger, and mental-health advocate
Nicholas Epley, Professor of Behavioral Science and Faculty Director of the Roman Family Center for Decision Research at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business
Arthur Aron, Professor of Psychology at the State University of New York at Stony Brook 
Elaine Aron, psychologist and author 

Resources Mentioned:
We're All Mad Here: The No-Nonsense Guide to Living with Social Anxiety, by Claire Eastham (2016)
A Little More Social: How Small Choices Create Unexpected Happiness, Health, and Connection, by Nicholas Epley (2026)
“The Experimental Generation of Interpersonal Closeness: A Procedure and Some Preliminary Findings,” by Arthur Aron, Edward Melinat, Elaine Aron, Robert Darrin Vallone, and Renee Bator (Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, 1997)

Related Episodes: 
“The Surprising Case for Oversharing”
“Make Vulnerability Your Superpower (with NBA Star Kevin Love)”
“Harnessing People Around us to Feel Happier (Live with Ethan Kross)”

Most of us default to small talk. It's polite, familiar, and feels like the safest way to start a conversation. But it may also be one of the biggest barriers to genuine connection.
Dr. Laurie speaks with author and metal-health advocate <a href="https://x.com/ClaireyLove" data-airgap-id="10">Claire Eastham</a> about her month-long experiment replacing small talk with deeper conversations while living with social anxiety.&nbsp; She also chats with psychologist <a href="https://www.nicholasepley.com/" data-airgap-id="11">Nicholas Epley</a> about why going deeper often scares us, what research reveals about opening up, and what happens when you tell a stranger about the last time you cried.
Experts Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://x.com/ClaireyLove" data-airgap-id="12">Claire Eastham</a>, author, blogger, and mental-health advocate</li>
<li><a href="https://www.nicholasepley.com/" data-airgap-id="13">Nicholas Epley</a>, Professor of Behavioral Science and Faculty Director of the Roman Family Center for Decision Research at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business</li>
<li><a href="https://www.psychology.stonybrook.edu/aronlab-/people/art.htm" data-airgap-id="14">Arthur Aron</a>, Professor of Psychology at the State University of New York at Stony Brook&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://hsperson.com/" data-airgap-id="15">Elaine Aron</a>, psychologist and author&nbsp;</li>
</ul>
Resources Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/1785920820?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="16">We're All Mad Here: The No-Nonsense Guide to Living with Social Anxiety</a>, by Claire Eastham (2016)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/0593319540?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="17">A Little More Social: How Small Choices Create Unexpected Happiness, Health, and Connection</a>, by Nicholas Epley (2026)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0146167297234003" data-airgap-id="18">The Experimental Generation of Interpersonal Closeness: A Procedure and Some Preliminary Findings</a>,&rdquo; by Arthur Aron, Edward Melinat, Elaine Aron, Robert Darrin Vallone, and Renee Bator (Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, 1997)</li>
</ul>
Related Episodes:&nbsp;
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/the-surprising-case-for-oversharing" data-airgap-id="19">The Surprising Case for Oversharing</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/make-vulnerability-your-superpower-with-nba-star-kevin-love" data-airgap-id="20">Make Vulnerability Your Superpower (with NBA Star Kevin Love)</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/harnessing-people-around-us-to-feel-happier-live-with-ethan-kross" data-airgap-id="21">Harnessing People Around us to Feel Happier (Live with Ethan Kross)</a>&rdquo;</li>
</ul>

The Happiness Lab is serving up scientifically-backed takes this summer that are so hot, even your SPF 50 won’t protect you.

With the help of behavioral scientists, historians, and cultural critics, Yale psychologist Dr. Laurie Santos challenges some of our biggest assumptions about what it takes to live a good life. Dr. Laurie explores topics like why we should forget about TMI and lean into oversharing, how dumping small talk makes for better conversations, why the kids these days are actually doing just fine, and how men can establish strong bromances. Each episode unpacks a bold, counterintuitive claim — using research, data, and expert insight to question the conventional wisdom around happiness and wellbeing.

The Happiness Lab is serving up scientifically-backed takes this summer that are so hot, even your SPF 50 won&rsquo;t protect you.
With the help of behavioral scientists, historians, and cultural critics, Yale psychologist Dr. Laurie Santos challenges some of our biggest assumptions about what it takes to live a good life. Dr. Laurie explores topics like why we should forget about TMI and lean into oversharing, how dumping small talk makes for better conversations, why the kids these days are actually doing just fine, and how men can establish strong bromances. Each episode unpacks a bold, counterintuitive claim &mdash;&nbsp;using research, data, and expert insight to question the conventional wisdom around happiness and wellbeing.

The Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos

Forget Small Talk: Go Deep Instead

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/bd4ebe67-d68d-4134-83ed-b4820123dc55/transcript