The Habit

Timothy Jones is a pastor and author known for helping people uncover greater warmth and depth in their relationship with God. His new book is Fully Beloved: Meeting God in Our Heartaches and Our Hopes. As Sandra Mccracken says, Fully Beloved “names the ache of loneliness and our lifelong quest for belonging.” In this episode, Tim Jones and Jonathan Rogers talk about the Trinity, Julian of Norwich, and the creative energy that is released when you realize that you are more loved than you thought.

Bethaney B. Wilkinson is a writer, spiritual director, podcaster, and facilitator who is passionate about slow, sustainable, and soul-nourishing living. Her new book is A More Beautiful Way to Live: Nine Practices to Unlearn Habits of Anxiety, Fear, and Urgency. In this episode, Bethaney and Jonathan Roger talk about tending to your inner terrain, paying attention to your longings while also paying attention to realities and limitations, and the difference between your sphere of influence and your sphere of concern.

Wesley Vander Lugt  is a pastor, theologian, writer, teacher, nonprofit leader, and arts advocate with a passion for beauty, slowness, cultivation, and kinship. He currently works as the Acting Director of the Leighton Ford Center for Theology, the Arts, and Gospel Witness and is Adjunct Professor of Theology at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in Charlotte. He is also the Co-Founder of Kinship Plot, a community of learning and practice imagining and embodying resonant relationships of every kind. His new book is Beauty Is Oxygen: Finding a Faith that Breathes. In this episode, Wes and Jonathan Rogers discuss just how necessary beauty is. This episode originally aired in June of 2024.

Becca Jordan has referred to herself as a wandering songbird. She’s a singer-songwriter, a writer of essays, and a worship leader in Nashville. She is also working on a Masters Degree in Theopoetics. Becca was our guest at The Habit’s 2026 Winter Writer’s Weekend. The theme of that weekend was “Adding to the Glory.” Becca is an artist who has put a lot of glory into the world in a lot of different ways, so she seemed like an obvious fit. This conversation was recorded in front of a roomful of writers. In this episode, Becca and Jonathan Rogers talk about glory, longing, and related topics.

Curt Thompson is a psychiatrist, a speaker, and the author of several books–most recently, The Deepest Place: Suffering and the Formation of Hope. In this episode, Curt and Jonathan Rogers talk about what it means to be hospitable to your own suffering, engaging suffering as the way of redemption, and the role of storytelling in mental and spiritual health. This episode originally ran in August 2023.

Andrew Roycroft is a freelance editor and writer. He has published poetry in a number of Irish and British literary journals, has produced work for BBC Radio 4, has contributed to Arts Council Northern Ireland projects, and written commissioned work for New Irish Arts. Andrew is also a regular contributor to the Rabbit Room Poetry community. His Substack is New Grub Street. In this episode, Andrew and Jonathan Rogers talk about calling, Substack, and Seamus Heaney.

Marsh Moyle is an interesting man. He’s an Englishman but he grew up in Malta. He and his wife Tuula lived for 17 years in Vienna when the Iron Curtain divided Europe. There they organised book translation and distribution while researching the beliefs, practices, and problems of life under communism. In the post-communist period, they lived in Slovakia for 16 years, establishing publishing houses in seven countries. They also ran a learning community and held seminars with student groups in Central Europe, Russia, and Ukraine, committed to awakening the imagination, encouragng critical thinking, and fostering a deeper practical understanding of biblical ideas. Marsh is the author of Rumours of a Better Country: Searching for Trust and Community in a Time of Moral Outrage. In this episode, Marsh and Jonathan Rogers talk about utopianism, individualism, and the surprising truth that we can only be our true, distinct selves when our selves are shaped by the people around us.

This week's episode is an old favorite from 2024. Leif Enger writes novels about good people living through bad times. His new book, I Cheerfully Refuse, epitomizes what the Los Angeles Tines calls Enger's “musical, sometimes magical and deeply satisfying kind of storytelling.” In this episode, Leif Enger and Jonathan Rogers talk about dystopian fiction; courage, literacy, and hope; and the bass guitar.

Joyce McPherson has written ten biographies–as well as several middle-grade novels–in 45 minute increments snatched from a busy life as a mother of nine and as a college instructor. Her most recent book is a biography of Jane Austen. In this episode, Joyce McPherson and Jonathan Rogers talk about how her mother convinced her to start writing for publication when she had two small children. We talk about research for biographies and historical fiction. And we talk about Joyce’s experiences with both traditional publishing and self-publishing.

Winfield Bevins is an author, a visual artist, and the founding director of Creo Arts, a non-profit that exists to bring beauty, goodness, and truth to the world through the arts. His new book is How Beauty Will Save the World: Recovering the Power of the Arts for the Christian Life. In this episode, Winfield and Jonathan Rogers talk about how beauty will save the world. They also talk about a modern Renaissance of the arts, moving from beauty to truth, and making space for Sabbath rest.

Daniel Nayeri’s latest novel—The Teacher of Nomad Land: A World War II Story—recently received the National Book Award for Young People’s Literature. In this episode Daniel speaks with Jonathan Rogers about Iran’s role in World War II, food writing, fathers, providence, the wisdom of children, and incompetent spies. This episode is sponsored by The Habit Writer Development Cohorts, a six-week small-group intensive starting January 12. The Habit Writer Development Cohorts provide practical tools, insights, and encouragement that writers at all experience levels. 

You probably know Sally Lloyd-Jones as the author of the Jesus Storybook Bible, a book that has been around for almost twenty years. She has also published more than twenty other books for children, including Thoughts to Make Your Heart Sing, His Royal Highness King Baby, and Skip to the Loo: A Potty Book. Her latest is Jesus, Our True Friend. Sally is committed to delight, and that makes her a delight herself. This is a delightful conversation between Sally Lloyd-Jones and Jonathan Rogers. This episode is sponsored by The Habit Writer Development Cohorts. Join "Cohort Week Zero," a free mini-class, at TheHabit.co/Development.

Galahad and the Grail is Book 1 of Merlin’s Isle, Malcolm Guite’s retelling of the King Arthur legends in ballad form. It releases in March of 2026. In the prelude to Galahad and the Grail, a voice shimmering in the morning air says: Poet, take up the tale– Take up the tale the land still keeps, In earth and water magic sleeps, The dryad sighs, the naiad weeps, But you can lift the veil. Malcolm has taken up a very old tale and lifted the veil on stories that have lingered in the traditions of the British Isles longer than the English language itself.  Scholar and teacher Junius Johnson is taking up the tale in another way. Starting in January 2026, Junius is teaching a 20-week online class on the King Arthur legend. He describes the class as a chance to see for yourself why this story has fascinated the imagination for so many centuries. In this episode, Malcolm, Junius talk with Jonathan Rogers about how King Arthur rode into their lives, and what these stories have meant to them. This episode is sponsored by The Habit Writer Development Cohorts. Join "Cohort Week Zero," a free mini-class, at TheHabit.co/Development.

Besides being the proprietor of the much-loved Substack, Miller's Book Review, Joel Miller is the author of a new book that has made its way into the world after a thirteen-year gestation. In The Idea Machine: How Books Built Our World and Shape Our Future, Joel make the case that books are one of the most important but overlooked factors in the making of our contemporary world. Books don't just preserve ideas, yes, but they also provoke new ones: they are true tools for thinking. This episode of The Habit Podcast was recorded live as part of a book-release celebration at The Rabbit Room’s North Wind Manor.  This episode is sponsored by The Habit Writer Development Cohorts. Join "Cohort Week Zero," a free mini-class, at TheHabit.co/Development.

Mischa Willett is a poet and writing professor. He is the Director of the Whitworth Writers' Workshop MFA in Creative Writing at Whitworth University in Spokane, Washington. In this episode, Mischa Willett and Jonathan Rogers talk about MFA programs, failure as a means of getting work done, and apology letters written by robots. This episode is sponsored by The Habit Writer Development Cohorts. Join "Cohort Week Zero" a free mini-class, TheHabit.co/Development.

In her role as poet, Rachel Donahue has a track record of gathering other poets, encouraging them in their work, and giving them space to shine. In her role as publisher and editor at Bandersnatch Books, she has done all those things for poets by envisioning, then bringing to lifeI’ve Got a Bad Case of Poetry, an anthology of poems for children by dozens of poets, gorgeously illustrated by Emily J. Person. In this episode, Jonathan Rogers speaks with both Rachel and Emily about the origins of A Bad Case of Poetry, the joys of creating in community, and the role of delight in the making of art—especially art for children. To get I've Got a Bad Case of Poetry by Christmas, preorder at Kickstarter before December 5.

Rabbit Room Press has started a new podcast called Rabbit Room Press Presents, serialized audiobooks of favorite Rabbit Room Press titles. The first season consisted of the seventeen interviews with poets that make up Ben Palpant’s book, An Axe for the Frozen Sea. Each episode is a different interview. Besides being an excellent writer in his own right, Ben is a great interviewer. This episode of The Habit Podcast is a rebroadcast of the first episode of Rabbit Press Presents—en Palpant, reading the Preface to An Axe for the Frozen Sea, followed by Chapter 1 of that book, his interview with the poet Scott Cairns.

Katherine Ladny Mitchell is a mystery-writer. Not To Be is the first in her Pen and Paintbrush mystery series, in which a writer and a painter, two sisters, work together as amateur sleuths. In this episode, Katherine and Jonathan Rogers talk about the rules of mystery stories, and how they apply to other kinds of storytelling. And they discuss the ways that the habit of art could make artists of all kinds good crime solvers.

Dr. Grace Hamman is a writer and independent scholar of late medieval poetry and contemplative writing. Her work has been published by academic and popular outlets, including Plough Quarterly and The Journal of Medieval and Early Modern Studies. Her new book is Ask of Old Paths: Medieval Virtues and Vices for a Whole and Holy Life. In this episode, Grace and Jonathan Rogers talk about the virtues and vices, and the ways that virtues present differently in different people. They also talk about unicorns.

Karen Walrond is the author of The Lightmaker’ Manifesto and Radiant Rebellion. She and her work have been featured on Brené Brown’s Unlocking Us podcast, Huffington Post, CNN.com, and the Oprah Winfrey Show. Her blog Chookooloonks is a lifestyle, inspiration, and photography destination. Karen’s new book is In Defense of Dabbling: The Brilliance of Being a Total Amateur. In this episode, Karen and Jonathan Rogers talk about hobbies, the value of doing things you aren’t very good at, and the seven attributes of intentional amateurism. This episode is sponsored by The Habit Focus Retreat—a four-day writing getaway in Nashville, October 26-30. TheHabit.co/Retreats.

Kate Gaston’s essays are usually hilarious and always wise. She is the proprietor of the Substack That Middle Distance and a regular at the Rabbit Room. She will also be a featured guest at The Habit's Focus Retreat at the end of October. In this episode, Kate and Jonathan Rogers discuss her essay, "The Heavy Lift of Creativity."

Dr. Louis Markos is Professor of English at Houston Christian University. He’s an authority on C. S. Lewis, apologetics, and ancient Greece and Rome. He’s the author of close to thirty books, most recently From Aristotle to Christ: How Aristotelian Thought Clarified the Christian Faith. In this episode, Dr. Markos and Jonathan Rogers talk about the relationship between virtue and happiness, the difference between wishes and choices, and the role of contemplation in the creative life. This episode is sponsored by The Habit's Focus Retreat, October 26-30 in Nashville. Find out more at TheHabit.co/Retreats.

Carey Wallace is an author and speaker who has devoted much of her professional life to equipping and encouraging other writers and artists. Her most recent book is The Discipline of Inspiration: The Mysterious Encounter with God at the Heart of Creativity. In this episode, Carey and Jonathan Rogers talk about inspiration, openness, surprise, and the connections between spiritual practices and creative practices.

Speaker and author Vicki Courtney has been writing books for women since the late 90s. Her new book is Motherhood Is Not Your Highest Calling: The Grace of Being a Good-Enough Mother. Vicki says iIt’s the book she would have liked to read when she was a young mother unable to shake the idea that motherhood defined her identity. In this episode, Vicki and Jonathan Rogers talk about swapping “perfect” for “good enough.” We talk about fitting a writing life into motherhood. And we talk a little about what it’s like to change your mind about something you published twenty years ago.  This episode is sponsored by The Habit's Focus Retreat, October 26-30 in Nashville. Find out more at TheHabit.co/Retreats.

W. David O. Taylor is Associate Professor of Theology & Culture at Fuller Theological Seminary, as well as the director of various initiatives in worship, theology and the arts. He teaches courses in systematic theology, art and worship, art and theology, art and beauty, spiritual formation through the psalms, and theology and science fiction. Along with Daniel Train, he edited a new collection of essays about art and the Holy Spirit—Naming the Spirit: Pneumatology and the Arts. One of the contributors to that collection is Steve Guthrie. Steve is a professor of theology and religion and the arts at Belmont University in Nashville. He is also chairman of the board of the Rabbit Room. In this episode, David, Steve and Jonathan Rogers talk about inspiration, breathing in and breathing out, particularity and mutuality, and quite a few other things. This episode is sponsored by The Focus Retreat, presented by The Habit. October 26-30 in Nashville. Find out more at TheHabit.co/Retreats.

Jason M. Baxter is a speaker, college professor, and author of eight books, including the best-selling Medieval Mind of C.S. Lewis, A Beginner's Guide to Dante's Comedy, Why Literature Still Matters, and now a new translation of Dante's Comedy. On his Substack, Beauty Matters, he writes about the role of the humanities in our technologically driven age. He currently works at Benedictine College in Kansas as the Director for the Center for Beauty and Culture. In this episode, Dr. Baxter and Jonathan Rogers talk about why literature matters, and how the arts begin to close the gap between who we are and what we long for.

Father Damian Ference is a priest of the diocese of Cleveland.  He serves at Borromeo Seminary in Wickliffe, Ohio as Director of Human Formation and Assistant Professor of Philosophy. He is also the author of Understanding The Hillbilly Thomist: The Philosophical Foundations of Flannery O’Connor’s Narrative Art. In a letter to a friend, O’Connor wrote, “Everybody who reads Wise Blood thinks I’m a hillbilly nihilist, whereas I would like to create the impression…that I am a hillbilly Thomist.” Father Ference argues in his book that O’Connor wasn’t just making a throwaway joke, but that the philosophy and theology of Thomas Aquinas shaped O’Connor’s art all the way to the ground. In this episode Father Ference and Jonathan Rogers talk about solid, down-to-earth metaphysics, trusting the senses, showing and telling, and virtue, habit, and freedom as they apply to creative work.

Heidi White is a teacher, a podcaster, a speaker, and an author. In her speaking and writing she explores literature, education, and the Christian imagination. Her new book is The Divided Soul: Duty and Desire in Literature and Life. In this episode, Heidi and Jonathan Rogers talk about the division and ultimate reunification of “want” and “ought,” and they discuss the truth that this division is central to all story because it is central to the human experience.

Karen Swallow Prior is a public intellectual— a writer, speaker, and literature teacher. Her work centers on the intersection of faith, narrative, and cultural life. Her Substack, The Priory, is devoted to the holy cultivation of a rich inner life. Her new book is You Have a Calling: Finding Your Vocation in the True, Good and Beautiful. In this episode, Dr. Prior and Jonathan Rogers talk about following your passion (she has her doubts about that advice), knowing your limitations (she doesn’t think you can be anything you want to be), and listening for your calling (she doesn’t think it has to be all that mystical).

Mitali Perkins (mitaliperkins.com) has written many books for young readers, including You Bring the Distant Near (nominated for a National Book Award) and Rickshaw Girl (adapted into a film), all of which explore crossing different kinds of borders. Her goal is to make readers laugh or cry, preferably both, as long as their hearts are widening. Her new book is for grownups. It’s called Just Making: A Guide for Compassionate Creatives. In it, Mitali begins answering the questions, “Why should we make art while injustice and suffering wreak havoc?” “How can we justify making beautiful things?” and “How do we keep doing the work?” In this episode Mitali Perkins and Jonathan Rogers talk about justice and creativity, the ups and downs of Mitali's career, five destructive interior forces that keep us from doing creative work, and practices that counteract those forces.

Carolyn Weber was our special guest at The Habit Summer Writers’ Weekend this past June. Carolyn is the author of Surprised by Oxford andSex and the City of God. She is also a professor at New College Franklin in Franklin, Tennessee. The following conversation was recorded in front of a live audience of writers. Carolyn and Jonathan Rogers talk about memoir-writing, the memoirist’s ever-developing sense of self, and what it means to be both honest and honoring of others in a memoir.

Songwriter Wendell Kimbrough has been writing, recording, and performing songs based on the Psalms for the last few years. His most recent record is called You Belong. In this episode, Wendell and Jonathan Rogers talk about loneliness, perfectionism, feeling like an outsider, learning to belong–and how one writes songs that sound like the Psalms while also sounding like the Gulf Coast.

Daniel McInerny is associate professor and chair of the philosophy department at Christendom College in Virginia. He is also a novelist and dramatist. His scholarship is directed toward reactivating an Aristotle’s understanding of art as imitation, long out of favor among philosophers. HIs biggest step in that direction is his new book, Beauty & Imitation: A Philosophical Reflection on the Arts. Peter Kreeft wrote of his previous book, The Way of Beauty, “This is literally the best book on beauty that I have ever read: the most convincing, clear, and comprehensive; the most eye-opening and satisfying; the most insightful and delightful. It is a masterpiece.”  In this episode, Dr. McInerny and Jonathan Rogers talk about why human beings take so much pleasure in imitation; they talk about the odd fact that an imitation can often afford us a better insight into a thing than does the direct experience of the thing. Also, they talk about Christopher Walken.

A degenerative muscle disease has made Kevan Chandler altogether reliant on others for his daily care. So he has invited friends into his life—deep into his life—making his need a nexus for community and joy. Kevan’s new book, co-authored with his friend Tommy Shelton, is The Hospitality of Need: How Depending on One Another Helps Us Heal and Grow Together. For Kevan, need is an opportunity for community, an opportunity to love and care for those who love and care for him. Besides reminding us that we all need each other, Kevan’s life gives us courage not to hide our need.

Besides being a stalwart of The Habit Membership for Writers, Meredith Davis is the founder of the Austin Texas chapter of The Society of Children’s Book Writers and Illustrators. And she’s the author of the middle-grade novel series, The Amazing Adventures of Noah Minor. The Minor Miracle was published in 2024; The Minor Rescue was published earlier this year. In this episode, Meredith speaks with Jonathan Rogers about her long road to publication, as well as her longstanding practice of hospitality to other writers.

Miroslav Volf is a theologian and professor at Yale Divinity School, where he is the founding director of the Yale Center for Faith and Culture. He is widely known for his work on reconciliation, forgiveness, and the intersection of faith and public life. He’s the author of at least twelve books, including the highly influential Exclusion and Embrace, as well as many articles and quite a few co-authored books. His most recent book is The Cost of Ambition: How Striving to Be Better than Others Makes Us Worse. In this episode, Dr. Volf and Jonathan Rogers talk about the difference between striving for excellence and striving for superiority. They talk about the freedom to be found when we stop defining ourselves in terms of our status relative to others. Also, they talk a good bit about Satan. This episode is sponsored by The Habit's Short Story Summer Camp, a six-week online writing class devoted to the short story. Find out more at TheHabit.co/ShortStory.

Judith McQuoid lives in Belfast, Northern Ireland, the hometown of CS Lewis—or Jacks, as he was known when he lived there. Inspired by Belfast, her love of Lewis, and her own family history, Judith wrote a middle-grade novel about young Jacks Lewis and an imagined friendship with a boy from a very different background. It’s a book about creativity, friendship, and the ways we can give one another a little more courage and a little more hope. It was my pleasure to talk to Judith McQuoid about her new novel, Giant.

Dr. Warren Kinghorn is a psychiatrist and theologian at Duke University, where he holds joint appointments at Duke Divinity School and the Duke University Medical Center. Warren’s work focuses on the intersection of theology, mental health, and human flourishing—and he brings an integrated, humane perspective to questions that too often get reduced to biology or technique. His new book is Wayfaring: A Christian Approach to Mental Health Care. In this episode, Warren Kinghorn and Jonathan Rogers discuss how the metaphor of the human being as a machine has shaped mental health care—and what is gained by reclaiming the older metaphor of the human as wayfarer; they talk about the ways that Thomas Aquinas’s teleological vision of human behavior opens up a richer account of freedom, agency, and virtue; and they talk about the possibility that the meaning of life is an active participation in blessing.

When Andrew Peterson started the Rabbit Room—this was 2006 or 2007—he didn’t know what to expect. He had no way of knowing that this little group blog written by friends and friends of friends would give rise to annual conferences—Hutchmoot and Hutchmoot UK—to a publishing house, to an event space—North Wind Manor—to The Local Show, to Rabbit Room Theater, to the podcast network of which The Habit Podcast is a part. More to the point, Andrew had no way of knowing what a difference the Rabbit Room would make in the lives of so many people. In this episode, Rabbit Room founder Andrew Peterson and Rabbit Room Executive Director David Bruno tell the story of the Rabbit Room.

Will Parker Anderson is a senior editor at Waterbrook-Multnomah, a division of Random House Publishing. He’s also the proprietor of a Substack called Writer’s Circle, in which he provides tips on the writing craft and seeks to demystify the publishing industry. In this episode, Will and Jonathan Rogers talk the “three legs” of publishing: platform, content, and concept.

Amy Baik Lee has written that in every place her life has taken her, "there have been hints of beauty and great knocks of mercy that have called to me from beyond my surroundings, always speaking of a King and Friend and Father whose presence is truly Home.” That sense of longing, those clues that perhaps we were made for a different world, make their way out in every thing Amy writes, and especially in her book, This Homeward Ache: How Our Yearning for the Life to Come Spurs on Our Life Today. In this episode, a replay from 2023, Amy and Jonathan Rogers talk about homeward longing, the idea of Sehnsucht, and the importance of writing in community.

Besides creating the One Year Adventure Novel and Cover Story writing curricula for students, Daniel Schwabauer has also written fiction and nonfiction for writers of all ages. He also teaches English at MidAmerica Nazarene University near Kansas City. His new book is The God of Story: Discovering the Narrative of Scripture Through the Language of Storytelling. In this episode, Daniel and Jonathan Rogers discuss ideals of power vs. ideals of principle, story as a means of defamiliarization, and story as a truly terrible flight simulator.

Mark Meynell is a freelance writer and speaker based in the UK. He’s the author of Life After Lifeand A Wilderness of Mirrors. He’s a co-host of the Tryptich podcast, and he’s an aficionado of Cold-War spy stories. In short, he’s a polymath and an excellent conversationalist. In this episode, Mark and Jonathan Rogers talk about the "immanent frame," instrumentalized art, and the power of beauty to challenge 'buffered selves' with the possibility of transcendence.

Matthew Clark is a singer/-songwriter, a storyteller, and a free spirit. He drives around America in a van he calls Vandalf, taking his music and stories and wisdom to audiences across the country. For the last six years he’s been working on a project he calls The Well Trilogy. Three albums of eleven songs, each accompanied by a collection of eleven essays inspired by the songs, written by friends of Matthew. The latest installment, Where the River Goes, comes out this week. In this episode, Matthew and Jonathan Rogers talk about aligning with reality, overcoming despair, and the love that outlives every kind of death. This episode is sponsored by The Habit Writer Development Cohorts, a six-week online small-group writing intensive designed to help writers develop their unique voice, refine their ideas, strengthen their craft, and build sustainable work habits. TheHabit.co/Cohorts

In this episode, Allen Levi and Jonathan Rogers discuss this connections between writerly voice and the voice with which the writer speaks every day. Allen Levi is a singer-songwriter and the author of The Last Sweet Mile and Theo of Golden. This episode is sponsored by The Habit Writer Development Cohorts, a six-week online small-group writing intensive designed to help writers develop their unique voice, refine their ideas, strengthen their craft, and build sustainable work habits. TheHabit.co/Cohorts

This archive episode of The Habit Podcast, from the first season, features a three-way conversation between Tish Harrison Warren, Doug McKelvey, and Jonathan Rogers. Tish is an Anglican priest, a former columnist for the New York Times and Christianity Today, a senior fellow at The Trinity Forum and the author of Prayer in the Nightand The Liturgy of the Ordinary. Doug is best known as the author of the Every Moment Holy books. In this episode, Tish, Doug, and Jonathan talk about the liturgies of the writing life, finding meaning where it is to be found, and liturgy as a way of making room for mystery to assert itself.

Flannery O'Connor's 100th birthday would have March 25, 2025. In this episode, Jonathan Rogers celebrates the life and work of this remarkable writer in an essay adapted from the introduction to his book, The Terrible Speed of Mercy: A Spiritual Biography of Flannery O'Connor.

Ben Palpant loves, for reasons that become apparent in this episode. On assignment from the Rabbit Room, Ben sat down to interview a few poets. He enjoyed it so much, he interviewed a few more, then a few more. When he had interviewed seventeen poets, he collected those interviews into a book called An Axe for the Frozen Sea. It’s a fascinating look into the minds and hearts of poets who work out of gratitude, out of abundance—sometimes out of grief, never out of grievance.

This week's episode is an essay, written and read by Jonathan Rogers. "Love, Happiness, and Creativity" begins (and ends) with an idea from Taylor Leonhardt's song "Diamonds"—the theme song for The Habit Podcast: "You are not an afterthought: Love himself dreamed you up."

Kelly Kapic is a professor of theology at Covenant College near Chattanooga. His most recent book is You're Only Human: How Your Limits Reflect God's design, and Why That Is Good News. In this episode, Dr Kapik and Jonathan Rogers talk about productivity, shame, gratitude and the truth that finiteness is actually a blessing. Also, they talk about magnanimity and pusillanimity. This week’s episode comes from the archives. This conversation with Kelly Kapic first aired in January of 2022; it’s one of the Habit Podcast episodes I think about the most often.