Miroslav Volf is a theologian and professor at Yale Divinity School, where he is the founding director of the Yale Center for Faith and Culture. He is widely known for his work on reconciliation, forgiveness, and the intersection of faith and public life. He’s the author of at least twelve books, including the highly influential Exclusion and Embrace, as well as many articles and quite a few co-authored books. His most recent book is The Cost of Ambition: How Striving to Be Better than Others Makes Us Worse. In this episode, Dr. Volf and Jonathan Rogers talk about the difference between striving for excellence and striving for superiority. They talk about the freedom to be found when we stop defining ourselves in terms of our status relative to others. Also, they talk a good bit about Satan.

This episode is sponsored by The Habit's Short Story Summer Camp, a six-week online writing class devoted to the short story. Find out more at TheHabit.co/ShortStory.