Karen Walrond is the author of The Lightmaker’ Manifesto and Radiant Rebellion. She and her work have been featured on Brené Brown’s Unlocking Us podcast, Huffington Post, CNN.com, and the Oprah Winfrey Show. Her blog Chookooloonks is a lifestyle, inspiration, and photography destination. Karen’s new book is In Defense of Dabbling: The Brilliance of Being a Total Amateur. In this episode, Karen and Jonathan Rogers talk about hobbies, the value of doing things you aren’t very good at, and the seven attributes of intentional amateurism.

This episode is sponsored by The Habit Focus Retreat—a four-day writing getaway in Nashville, October 26-30. TheHabit.co/Retreats.