The ‘four Fs’ spell a fossil fuel-free future that includes … gas? The man entrusted with explaining this tricky idea to Australians is sharp-tongued Chris Bowen, the nation’s most unpopular minister. Dennis Shanahan joins us.

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This episode of The Front is presented and produced by Claire Harvey and edited by Lia Tsamoglou. Our team includes Kristen Amiet, Tiffany Dimmack, Joshua Burton, Stephanie Coombes and Jasper Leak, who also composed our music.