Chioda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Pope Francis has died at the age of eighty eight. The Vatican announced he died of a stroke at his Santa Maria residence, almost a month after his five weeks stay in hospital battling pneumonia. Elected on March thirteen, twenty thirteen, for twelve years, he served as the leader of the world's one point four billion Catholics and was notable for his more liberal and open minded views on Christianity. Today, on the Front Page, Bishop Michael Dooley, the Bishop of Dunedin, joins us to talk about Pope Francis's legacy and where the Hollywood's depiction of how to choose the next pontiff is correct. Francis was the first Latin American leader of the Roman Catholic Church. How significant was that, Well.

Chioda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Pope Francis has died at the age of eighty eight. The Vatican announced he died of a stroke at his Santa Maria residence, almost a month after his five weeks stay in hospital battling pneumonia. Elected on March thirteen, twenty thirteen, for twelve years, he served as the leader of the world's one point four billion Catholics and was notable for his more liberal and open minded views on Christianity. Today, on the Front Page, Bishop Michael Dooley, the Bishop of Dunedin, joins us to talk about Pope Francis's legacy and where the Hollywood's depiction of how to choose the next pontiff is correct. Francis was the first Latin American leader of the Roman Catholic Church. How significant was that, Well.

It was a very significant appointment after I think about a thousand years of popes coming from Europe, and it signified that here was someone who was coming from the Southern hemisphere and also from the South American continent. So it was quite a significant move. And I think good because it gave a voice to that part of the world which makes up a big part of the church, but hasn't certainly been involved in the leadership in that way, So a very significant move.

It was a very significant appointment after I think about a thousand years of popes coming from Europe, and it signified that here was someone who was coming from the Southern hemisphere and also from the South American continent. So it was quite a significant move. And I think good because it gave a voice to that part of the world which makes up a big part of the church, but hasn't certainly been involved in the leadership in that way, So a very significant move.

The Can you tell me a little bit about his beginnings and how he came to get the top job.

The Can you tell me a little bit about his beginnings and how he came to get the top job.

Well, he's from Argentina. He was a member of the Jesuit order. He was made bishop and then archbishop of Buenos Aires in Argentina by Pope John Paul the Second was made a cardinal, so he really functioned as a bishop and a diocese, looking after the parishes and normal activities of a bishop, and then until he was made pope, which surprised a lot of people, but looking at him, he would have had a good preparation.

Well, he's from Argentina. He was a member of the Jesuit order. He was made bishop and then archbishop of Buenos Aires in Argentina by Pope John Paul the Second was made a cardinal, so he really functioned as a bishop and a diocese, looking after the parishes and normal activities of a bishop, and then until he was made pope, which surprised a lot of people, but looking at him, he would have had a good preparation.

So in twenty thirteen he was asked whether a gay person could become a priest, and he famously replied, who am I to judge. In twenty twenty three, he formally signed off on allowing Catholic priests to bless same sex couples, and earlier this year, in an interview with the Associated Press, he said being homosexual isn't a crime. Now, how did the rest of the church reacted this progressiveness when it came to LGBTQ plus rights.

So in twenty thirteen he was asked whether a gay person could become a priest, and he famously replied, who am I to judge. In twenty twenty three, he formally signed off on allowing Catholic priests to bless same sex couples, and earlier this year, in an interview with the Associated Press, he said being homosexual isn't a crime. Now, how did the rest of the church reacted this progressiveness when it came to LGBTQ plus rights.

Well, he wasn't going against any teaching of the church. But what he was doing was saying to the church and to all of us, we need to respect and acknowledge each other as human beings. So he was I suppose, speaking to those responses to people, especially from the it's the LBGDD community that have been discriminated against and abused in different ways, that this must not happen. So he was very much a pope who expressed and got for the importance of each of us being made in the image of God. So it was a strong message, but it wasn't something that was against church teaching. He was just sort of reiterating the importance of respect for each other.

Well, he wasn't going against any teaching of the church. But what he was doing was saying to the church and to all of us, we need to respect and acknowledge each other as human beings. So he was I suppose, speaking to those responses to people, especially from the it's the LBGDD community that have been discriminated against and abused in different ways, that this must not happen. So he was very much a pope who expressed and got for the importance of each of us being made in the image of God. So it was a strong message, but it wasn't something that was against church teaching. He was just sort of reiterating the importance of respect for each other.

And I know Pope France has never shied away from commenting on world politics either. In February, he criticized US President Donald Trump's administration for its deportation policies and urged Catholics to reject anti immigrant narratives. Is this unusual for the head of the Catholic Church to voice such views.

And I know Pope France has never shied away from commenting on world politics either. In February, he criticized US President Donald Trump's administration for its deportation policies and urged Catholics to reject anti immigrant narratives. Is this unusual for the head of the Catholic Church to voice such views.

I think, to be honest, it probably is unusual because Pope Francis didn't have any hesitation in saying what he thought, and I'm sure that probably some of his media advisors would caution against it, but he was very much someone who who said what he thought and went out yes and publicly put forward what his fees were. So in that regard, I think he did change the paper see and by bringing his own particular style, which was a very open and transparent style.

I think, to be honest, it probably is unusual because Pope Francis didn't have any hesitation in saying what he thought, and I'm sure that probably some of his media advisors would caution against it, but he was very much someone who who said what he thought and went out yes and publicly put forward what his fees were. So in that regard, I think he did change the paper see and by bringing his own particular style, which was a very open and transparent style.

This morning, messages coming in from rule leaders around the globe, all of them commenting on the Pontiff's impact, not just on the Church and Catholics, but everyone around the world. Mebe from top to bottom, everyone praising his humbleness as the first Latin pope we've seen.

This morning, messages coming in from rule leaders around the globe, all of them commenting on the Pontiff's impact, not just on the Church and Catholics, but everyone around the world. Mebe from top to bottom, everyone praising his humbleness as the first Latin pope we've seen.

I just signed an executive order putting the flags of our country, all of them, all federal flags and state flags, at half mass in honor of Pope Francis. So he was a good man, worked hard, he loved the world, and it's an honor to do that.

I just signed an executive order putting the flags of our country, all of them, all federal flags and state flags, at half mass in honor of Pope Francis. So he was a good man, worked hard, he loved the world, and it's an honor to do that.

And I've seen some commentary online about how Pope Francis seemed to be living by true Christian values, supporting all people regardless of race or sexuality, putting his beliefs above politics in a way he made religion more palatable for the more agnostic society. Do you think that's fair? And is that something that the church will need to consider when looking at a new candidate.

And I've seen some commentary online about how Pope Francis seemed to be living by true Christian values, supporting all people regardless of race or sexuality, putting his beliefs above politics in a way he made religion more palatable for the more agnostic society. Do you think that's fair? And is that something that the church will need to consider when looking at a new candidate.

I think you're right. There is definitely that element that and I think what it was was he it's a preached the Gospel and the values, but he also did live them out in his everyday life, and so he did many things that were quite symbolic of simplicity and humility and respect for others. So I think it was a very important one he did, and I'm sure that it will influence the next successor.

I think you're right. There is definitely that element that and I think what it was was he it's a preached the Gospel and the values, but he also did live them out in his everyday life, and so he did many things that were quite symbolic of simplicity and humility and respect for others. So I think it was a very important one he did, and I'm sure that it will influence the next successor.

And he also lived quite modestly as well. I read somewhere that before becoming a pope he would take public transport. I mean there was a reason why he chose the name Francis, right, oh, very much.

And he also lived quite modestly as well. I read somewhere that before becoming a pope he would take public transport. I mean there was a reason why he chose the name Francis, right, oh, very much.

So like when he was Archbishop of Born a series. I don't think he hit a car. So he used to take public transport and lived in a little flat and cooked his own meal. So he was quite simple in his living style.

So like when he was Archbishop of Born a series. I don't think he hit a car. So he used to take public transport and lived in a little flat and cooked his own meal. So he was quite simple in his living style.

And Pope Francis he chose the name France because correct me if I'm wrong, but the popes choose a name when they get the paper c and he chose Francis because of Francis of a CC.

And Pope Francis he chose the name France because correct me if I'm wrong, but the popes choose a name when they get the paper c and he chose Francis because of Francis of a CC.

Yes, that's right, Francis of a CCI, who was a saint in the church in the Middle Ages and very much had a care for the poor, also a care for the environment, and so Francis deliberately chose that name to indicate what sort of leadership he wanted to have.

Yes, that's right, Francis of a CCI, who was a saint in the church in the Middle Ages and very much had a care for the poor, also a care for the environment, and so Francis deliberately chose that name to indicate what sort of leadership he wanted to have.

There have been a few movies about the Catholic Church in recent times. I'm thinking first the two popes that explored Pope Francis's friendship with Pope Benedict around the time the papacy was transferred, but also most recently Conclave. Well Dotan or Lawrence.

There have been a few movies about the Catholic Church in recent times. I'm thinking first the two popes that explored Pope Francis's friendship with Pope Benedict around the time the papacy was transferred, but also most recently Conclave. Well Dotan or Lawrence.

It seems the responsibility for the conclave and falls upon you.

It seems the responsibility for the conclave and falls upon you.

The supervision of the selection duty.

The supervision of the selection duty.

I never thought I'd have to perform.

I never thought I'd have to perform.

No scene.

No scene.

Man would want the.

Man would want the.

Man weren't dangerous?

Man weren't dangerous?

Are the ones who do want to? How accurate are these Hollywood interpretations of what happens behind the scenes?

Are the ones who do want to? How accurate are these Hollywood interpretations of what happens behind the scenes?

Do you think there isn't a certain accuracy because they've researched the process, So the process of the cardinals gathering together and being secluded and voting, that will be correct. Perhaps some of the movies take dramatic license with some of the things that happened, but in general, I think the reasonably accurate about the process that takes place to elect a new pope.

Do you think there isn't a certain accuracy because they've researched the process, So the process of the cardinals gathering together and being secluded and voting, that will be correct. Perhaps some of the movies take dramatic license with some of the things that happened, but in general, I think the reasonably accurate about the process that takes place to elect a new pope.

Have you seen the movie Conclave?

Have you seen the movie Conclave?

Look, I haven't. I've been meaning to see it and now I'm sorry. I haven't seen it before this happened, but I've certainly heard about it, and a number of people have recommended it to me.

Look, I haven't. I've been meaning to see it and now I'm sorry. I haven't seen it before this happened, but I've certainly heard about it, and a number of people have recommended it to me.

Yeah, because I'm wondering, because of that movie and being nominated for the Academy Awards, whether this the real life Conclave might be the most watched in the history of the Conclaves, perhaps because so many people have seen the movie and now kind of know the process.

Yeah, because I'm wondering, because of that movie and being nominated for the Academy Awards, whether this the real life Conclave might be the most watched in the history of the Conclaves, perhaps because so many people have seen the movie and now kind of know the process.

Look, I think you're right. I think it will. We mate quite a bit of interest, because there's a number of people that have spoken to me who ugnhun't Catholics, but have been quite fascinated by the process.

Look, I think you're right. I think it will. We mate quite a bit of interest, because there's a number of people that have spoken to me who ugnhun't Catholics, but have been quite fascinated by the process.

So can you tell me what is conclave? What's the process from here in choosing a new pope?

So can you tell me what is conclave? What's the process from here in choosing a new pope?

Well, just from my understanding, so after Pope francis funeral, the cardinals of the church will be summoned to Rome and those who are under eighty years old, so they're a bible to vote, so there's about one hundred and twenty. So they will gather in Rome together and then meet in the conclave and vote on a new pope. And it often takes a few days to sort out who their candidates are, because there needs to be a sort of a reasonable majority for someone to be elected pope. But they will go into the conclave and work on that until it's until they come with the name a successor. And then of course the fame quite smoke will rise from the chimney when to indicate that they've appointed a successor.

Well, just from my understanding, so after Pope francis funeral, the cardinals of the church will be summoned to Rome and those who are under eighty years old, so they're a bible to vote, so there's about one hundred and twenty. So they will gather in Rome together and then meet in the conclave and vote on a new pope. And it often takes a few days to sort out who their candidates are, because there needs to be a sort of a reasonable majority for someone to be elected pope. But they will go into the conclave and work on that until it's until they come with the name a successor. And then of course the fame quite smoke will rise from the chimney when to indicate that they've appointed a successor.

And in terms of the pope's funeral, am I right in saying that there is an opportunity for people to go and pay their respects in the coming days, Well.

And in terms of the pope's funeral, am I right in saying that there is an opportunity for people to go and pay their respects in the coming days, Well.

They will be in Rome, yes, I'd say there'll be quite a few people descending upon Rome Saint Peter Square to show their respects. So there will be like days of morning before or the funeral.

They will be in Rome, yes, I'd say there'll be quite a few people descending upon Rome Saint Peter Square to show their respects. So there will be like days of morning before or the funeral.

His approach to people duties was markedly less formal, choosing to reside in a guest house rather than the customary Apostolic palace, and while Benedict sought to cultivate a core of ardent believers to re energize Catholicism, especially among its dwindling flock in Europe. Well Francis sought to broaden the church's appeal by de emphasizing doctrinal differences signature to his Jesuit training, The pope pushed for openness, most notably to expanding the role of women and LGBTQ Catholics.

His approach to people duties was markedly less formal, choosing to reside in a guest house rather than the customary Apostolic palace, and while Benedict sought to cultivate a core of ardent believers to re energize Catholicism, especially among its dwindling flock in Europe. Well Francis sought to broaden the church's appeal by de emphasizing doctrinal differences signature to his Jesuit training, The pope pushed for openness, most notably to expanding the role of women and LGBTQ Catholics.

Do you think the church would benefit from another progressive pope like Pope Francis or will it change course and move back to more conservative views? Do you think?

Do you think the church would benefit from another progressive pope like Pope Francis or will it change course and move back to more conservative views? Do you think?

I think with Pope Francis, he wasn't really a liberal. His sort of religious views were quite conservative in a lot of ways. But he was radical in the sense that in living the Gospel. So really that's what we're called to do in the church. So the next pope, I'm sure will be aware of that and will realize that if you sort of go back from that sort of radical living of the Gospel, it's not a good yes, not a good sort of sign to do that. So I think I'd have confidence that the next pope will take what Pope Francis has done and try to build on that.

I think with Pope Francis, he wasn't really a liberal. His sort of religious views were quite conservative in a lot of ways. But he was radical in the sense that in living the Gospel. So really that's what we're called to do in the church. So the next pope, I'm sure will be aware of that and will realize that if you sort of go back from that sort of radical living of the Gospel, it's not a good yes, not a good sort of sign to do that. So I think I'd have confidence that the next pope will take what Pope Francis has done and try to build on that.

Are there any front runners.

Are there any front runners.

To be honest, I would have no idea at all who who the next Pope will be, because sometimes the ones who get pot forward as candidates never never make it. So there will be there'll be like probably a dozen cardinals that will be put forward as front runners, but often what happens is that someone comes from out of nowhere, which really was what Pope Francis did.

To be honest, I would have no idea at all who who the next Pope will be, because sometimes the ones who get pot forward as candidates never never make it. So there will be there'll be like probably a dozen cardinals that will be put forward as front runners, but often what happens is that someone comes from out of nowhere, which really was what Pope Francis did.

So there are five high ranking cardinals that are the top contenders right now. The front runner appears to be Cardinal Luis Antonio Tugle from the Philippines. The sixty seven year olds is considered a strong contender to continue Pope Francis's progressive agenda. His Asian heritage may also be key, as Catholicism is growing rapidly on the continent, especially in his home country. Now behind him is Italian Cardinal Pietro Perolin. At seventy years old, he's one of the most experienced Vatican officials. And then we then have Cardinal Peter Turkson of Ghana. The seventy six year old is a well known figure in the church's social justice circles. Turkson has been vocal on issues such as climate change, poverty, and economic Justice. His election would be historic as the first African pope in centuries. And next is Cardinal Peter Erdo of Hungary, a respected canon law scholar and a strong advocate for traditional Catholic teachings and doctrin. Finally, there is Cardinal Adelo's Scola of Italy. At eighty two years old, he's the oldest of all the front runners. He was also among the favorites during the twenty thirteen conclave that elected Pope Francis.

So there are five high ranking cardinals that are the top contenders right now. The front runner appears to be Cardinal Luis Antonio Tugle from the Philippines. The sixty seven year olds is considered a strong contender to continue Pope Francis's progressive agenda. His Asian heritage may also be key, as Catholicism is growing rapidly on the continent, especially in his home country. Now behind him is Italian Cardinal Pietro Perolin. At seventy years old, he's one of the most experienced Vatican officials. And then we then have Cardinal Peter Turkson of Ghana. The seventy six year old is a well known figure in the church's social justice circles. Turkson has been vocal on issues such as climate change, poverty, and economic Justice. His election would be historic as the first African pope in centuries. And next is Cardinal Peter Erdo of Hungary, a respected canon law scholar and a strong advocate for traditional Catholic teachings and doctrin. Finally, there is Cardinal Adelo's Scola of Italy. At eighty two years old, he's the oldest of all the front runners. He was also among the favorites during the twenty thirteen conclave that elected Pope Francis.

I've read a couple of lists, and You're right, they're all over the place, but I've noticed that they're all above the age of their late sixties on woods, is there a reason why I guess anyone younger can't be pope?

I've read a couple of lists, and You're right, they're all over the place, but I've noticed that they're all above the age of their late sixties on woods, is there a reason why I guess anyone younger can't be pope?

Well, one of the reasons is that the cardinals were elected to elick someone that's too young, because then usually you know you're stuck with that pope until they die, so it can be a long time. So the advantage of having an older pope is that you know there'll be another pope that'll come, not in a reasonable length of time. So apparently there is, yeah, there is that sense that if you elected someone too young, then you could be stuck with them for a long time.

Well, one of the reasons is that the cardinals were elected to elick someone that's too young, because then usually you know you're stuck with that pope until they die, so it can be a long time. So the advantage of having an older pope is that you know there'll be another pope that'll come, not in a reasonable length of time. So apparently there is, yeah, there is that sense that if you elected someone too young, then you could be stuck with them for a long time.

And in terms of so you said there's about one hundred and twenty cardinals, they will all go off to Vatican City and become part of the conclave. Have there ever been any cardinals from say Australia or New Zealand.

And in terms of so you said there's about one hundred and twenty cardinals, they will all go off to Vatican City and become part of the conclave. Have there ever been any cardinals from say Australia or New Zealand.

Yes, So we have one cardinal who will go over there, Cardinal John ju who he's retired as bishop, but because he's under the age of eighty, he is eligible to be a voter, so he will go over and he will be part of the conclave. And in Australia, we actually have the youngest cardinal in the world in Australia, Cardinal mccola, who's the cardinal of the Ukrainian Catholic Church, but part of his area is New Zealand, so he will be going over too, so and he's just in his forties. So we'll have two cardinals from certainly from Australia New Zealand going over.

Yes, So we have one cardinal who will go over there, Cardinal John ju who he's retired as bishop, but because he's under the age of eighty, he is eligible to be a voter, so he will go over and he will be part of the conclave. And in Australia, we actually have the youngest cardinal in the world in Australia, Cardinal mccola, who's the cardinal of the Ukrainian Catholic Church, but part of his area is New Zealand, so he will be going over too, so and he's just in his forties. So we'll have two cardinals from certainly from Australia New Zealand going over.

And what does it take to become a cardinal, Well.

And what does it take to become a cardinal, Well.

To become it's the Pope that appoints cardinals, so and it's an honorary position, so it's usually an existing bishop and it's done. Really the main thing is to provide the electoral College to elect a new pope, so in the end it's a decision of the pope, so he appoints his own cardinals.

To become it's the Pope that appoints cardinals, so and it's an honorary position, so it's usually an existing bishop and it's done. Really the main thing is to provide the electoral College to elect a new pope, so in the end it's a decision of the pope, so he appoints his own cardinals.

Thank you for joining us, Bishal. That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzadherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also a sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.

Thank you for joining us, Bishal. That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzadherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also a sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.