The Follow-OnCan India handle the Aussie heat? Brett Lee previews a huge summer ahead on Fox Cricket
Fox Cricket expert Brett Lee joins Courtney Walsh on The Follow On podcast to look ahead at what is set to be a mammoth summer of cricket, with India coming to town.
Hello and welcome to Fox Crickets podcast The follow On, and it's our first for the summer of twenty twenty four twenty twenty five, and what a big summer it is shaping to be. The lighted to be joined on the opening podcast by Brett Lee, a champion Australian cricketer. Almost twenty five years of the day since Brett Lee debooed for Australia against India in the Boxing Day Test, and what a debut that was, taking five wickets in his first inning. So first since Dennis Lily to do that, first Australian sis denis Lily to do that. Welcome to the follow On, Brett, great to have you aboard.
Yeah, thanks Cord. It nice to be here and nice have been the first one for the year.
So it's always nice to get that brand new ball in the hand, nappen up the bowling.
Well on that we'll start. We'll get onto some hot topics obviously to come. But I just thought with that lovely memory of twenty five years ago and what an amazing Test debut that was against India, I think he took the wicket of a wicket with your fourth ball. You had Ral driver, and I think you took three wickets in the last six deliveries of the innings to take five for not a bad debut. What can you remember about that, that moment in your career and what set you up for in the years to come.
Yeah, probably just the whole build up.
There was a lot of expectation, a lot of conjecture around would I play or not. Michael Kasperwitz was looking to get the NOD ahead of me, and then.
I found at the morning of the match that I was playing.
So all of that those memories of thinking back to a nine year old kid was starting sort of flooding. All the hard work, the sacrifices, the injuries, overcoming adversity.
People saying I wasn't good enough.
That they all sort of flashed through my eyes and that instant and I was like, well, you know what, I've worked so hard to get here, Let's just have some fun enjoy And that's exactly what I went out and did. I played as good as I possibly could, but yeah, to pick up fivets against India at the MCG nineteen ninety nine, with you know, close to one hundred.
Thousand people watching it, I still can't believe it happened.
To be honest, it was a lot of fun and I thought, well, I've taken one wicket, I wouldn't mind getting a few more, and then that becomes a love affair that you have with cricket and hopefully takes wickets.
Did you feel like you had the entire crowd behind you when you stood at the mark for that first delivery.
It's weird because being an Australian, having one hundred thousand people there that were you know, ninety or one thousand were sort of barracking for Australia and being like the new kill on the block. I think a lot of people want to see that young kid do well. And you know, people I think appreciate fast buying. So it wasn't a hard self for me. I had to make sure I could deliver and hopefully get some wickets.
But yeah, personally and looking.
At the caliber of players I had around me, you know, Steven Mark Wore, Ricky Ponting, Justin Langer, Matthew Hayden, Shane warn and Glenn McGraw, I could not live I was in the team, to be honest, and there's just the most surreal unbelievable feeling.
Now with India heading out to play in a month or so time, the first Test in Perth November twenty two, lots to look forward to. We know that India is at the moment in a major Test series against New Zealand. A bit of a shock there, and we'll touch on that. But you've had a lot of time in India, you spent a lot of time there. It's clearly a fond nation for you, a massive nation in cricket.
But you must have lots of fond memories there.
I do, and you know I've been going to India for thirty years. I think my count is about one hundred and sixty five visits there or thereabouts. I've been through several passports in terms of the book being filled up, but I've just taken so many great memories away from India.
It's the hospitality.
People over there are so generous and when they find out that you play cricket, and if you've been lucky to present your country, you get looked after pretty well in India. And I want to make sure too that when India comes out and tours Australia they get the same hospitality as I'm sure that Australia will you know, a lot of Australian fans that here, both with South Asia heritage and obviously Australian blood, there will be a lot of people looking forward to seeing the world superstars. You know, when we think about Test cricket, we think about cricket in general, it's pretty much India is where it's at. You know, they've got some of the world's greatest players and for us to be able to showcase the time that we have here in Australia with our team, but they'll be up against a very solid Indian So I know that they lost.
Only yesterday or during the week with you know, defeat to.
New Zealand, which was first time I think thirty six years they lost, so that was a bit of a shock. But I can promise you when they come out to Australia they'll be craiging ready to go.
Well, we might start but just with a couple of the Australian topics and then move on to the Indian team and what we can expect from them through the summer. The hot topic, the hottest topic around is who will partner Usman Kwaja at the top of the order with Steve Smith moving down to number four. We'll put you on the spot at some stage, Brett. But firstly, having been around you South Wales cricket for so long, Sam Constace Andrew McDonald on the weekend said that he was firmly in the frame among alongside Marcus Harris and Cameron Bancroft and Matthew Renshaw as a logical candidates to fill that position position beside Kauwaja. What can you tell me about Constance? When did he first come onto your radar? He obviously had a great junior career, done some great things at under nineteen level and then that double century last week against the two centuries last week against South Australia. You know, what do we know about him and what do you like about him?
Well, that's a loving segue, Corning, because I was exactly going to talk about him, not because he's wearing a blue cap and I'm a proud new South Welshman. But he's had a fantastic start to his first class career, you know, two hundreds pretty much back to back and he played a handful of Shefford Shield matches. But I've had a bit of a close eye on him for the last couple of years. As you mentioned right, he's come through the ranks and done very well from under NINETEENES cricket to get into this Shefford Shield squad under some guidance as well with I know that Shane Watson's been doing a lot of work and I'm really good mates of what I and what I has had a bit of a keen eye on him and a lot of guys around his local club and been helped him out as well.
But this guy is an absolute weapon.
He's a raw talent. Is he too young nineteen years of age? I don't believe he is. I don't believe he's too young. I mean, age is just a number. And then the other side all the conundrum that you've got if you're talking about age, how old is too old? So he's a Cameron Bancroft. Now too old is a Marcus Harris? You know some not too old? Is Australia better off going to guys in their late twenties early thirties and hoping for a couple of more couple of quality seasons or he looked to the youth and I think what they potentially should do is. Look at a guy like Sam Conscis because he's got a wonderful technique. He's definitely a player of the future. It's only a matter of time until, in my opinion, untill he plays for Australia.
So why not get him in now? But also give him the freedom.
Don't say if you don't score runs in your first Test, you're out. Give him that confidence and say, mate, you've got the whole Australian summer back yourself ten innings.
I can promise you he will.
Get some runs if he's going with the confidence. That would be my first pick. Second option I've got might sound a bit crazy, but we've heard about bas ball and Andrew McDonald as you mentioned in that question as well.
Why not bison ball.
What about Mitchell Marsh at the top of the order to go out and try and dominate, Because.
If Australia can just blow into your.
Way for one Test and if Mitchell Marsh comes off, even if it's one out of the five innings, that to me could be the difference between winning and losing a series.
So that's the option as well.
They could go that's super aggressive, a bit like that David Warner model. At the top of the innings, get Mitchell marsh Up there, or potentially go with a you know like young Sam who's just an absolute quality talent.
Well, I think there's a couple of great things to touch on there, but let's just focus initially just on Sam. We've heard that he's a young guy who's willing to take advice. You talk about him working with Shane Watson. He asks questions, he looks for guidance, and he's constantly looking to improve his game, which I guess you would hope as a teenager.
What sets him.
Apart from the three sort of more established openers in your mind? Is it just simply the youth? And the other thing is do you put pressure on a young player to come in?
You said age is just a number.
He's played six first class matches or he's in his sixth first class match at the same What do you love about him?
Well, I like the fact that he is so young in his career and he's dominating so far, which is good because it tells you that he's not being overwhelmed. I think sometimes the longer that you lead a guy or a girl in cricket form and say it's going to happen eventually. You know, you give us three or four good seasons and then you might get your opportunity. It's a tough one, mate, because if we look back to Mike Cussey, he had to earn his stripes. He played up until the age I think thirty and then finally got his opportunity to debut for Australia. So there'd be people saying he's got to earn his stripes. He's got to score runs. Marcus Harris has been scoring runs. Kevin Bancroft has been the league run scorer in Shefford Shield for a.
Number of seasons.
I think if they would have gone with but if they do go with Bancroft, they should have gone with him maybe two years ago and have the opportunity, which is the reason why I think that may go this way. The thing that I think is different between him and other plays is because he's got that youth. He doesn't get overwhelmed and he's got no you know, sometimes you can get overtrained, and I think if you're overtrained, you can get nervous and you can worry about all those little things that go wrong. The youth of today just come in and play with freedom. Jake Fraser mcgirk's another guy that is a terrific play just goes out and sees the ball, hits the ball for six and that's the quality and why we love the youth coming through. So for that reason I would be going get the guy in, but he's not all just get out there and try and smack every ball for four. He's got a beautiful technique. He likes to bat time. I have spent some time with him recently, just a couple of a couple of weeks ago, had a good chat to him and he's just got a good head on his shoulder as he comes from a lovely family, got a good upbringing, so he's got all all the makings of a you know, a wonderful Test batsman in the future, whether it's this tournament, this series coming up or down the track'll you know, I think he'll definitely play for Australia.
You touched on Mitch Marsh and the wild cud option with Cameron Green being ruled out for the summer, with the with the stress fractories in the back and the operation understandably, where do we look at in terms of all rounders if marsh for example, was promoted. Sean Abbott bowl particularly well yesterday. Is it a bowling all round against Victoria he took four wickets. Is it a bowling all rounder you think they would look for. Is it a Bo Webster who's been so good at domestic cricket in the last couple of years. Aaron Hardy's clearly been in the mix on the radar for some time. Or do we rely on a Marnus Levishane who's bowling and should Marnus be bowling?
Brett and Travis.
Head, who we see has been a really handy sort of bowler in the in the in the short form cricket.
What do we look at there?
Do you think in terms of Cameron greenan and his absence and how we look to replace his I suppose his deeds in the field and with the bat and bowl.
Well, the thing with Cameron Green is that he's such like an amazing player. He's almost a two person player in the team. You know, he can bat in anywhere in the top five. He can bowl with a brand new ball. He's tall, he's quick, he's athletic in the field right NC Gully got great hands, so he's the one stop shot for Australia. Unfortunately he's out with the back injury now, so he'll have to sort of get.
Back in and do that rehab like guys to have to do.
And most bowlers unfortunately will get injured at some stage.
But it does leave a big hole.
And those names that you mentioned are definitely on my hit list as well. You know, you think of Bo Webster, you know, obviously a big, powerful hitter, a bit like the Camon Green Mold. You know, he bats and he bowls. He's got good hands as well catch as well on the slips. Aaron Hardy, which I think unfairly has been targeted as a batting all round a lot to see more of these bowling I think he's actually a quality quality bowler as well, and he has taken wickets in every format of the game. He would definitely be in contention. Sean Abbott, as you mentioned picking up Forfar just a couple of days ago, is also a handularer or a batsman as well. So Australias sport for choice, which is good and bad because if there's only one person that's got that opportunity, normally that put all their eggs in one basket and they go, right, this is who we're going to go with.
We're going to invest in this person.
So unfortunately, if the next door rounder, the next cab off the rank isn't successful in the first.
Game or two. From a selection point of view, the easy option.
Is, well, we've got two or three other guys that could feel that same role. There might be a batting all rounder or a bowling all rounder. So unfortunately for Australia, the issue is they've got three or four quality all rounders that can all feel that gap. I think that if you went with any one of those three that we've just mentioned, I don't think Australia would been a bad spot.
We talk about the I suppose quickly on Steve Smith moving back down to for do you think that's a wise and good move. We know that he either was some criticism about him as opener, but he now you look at it, he was probably average I think twenty eight, and I think Osmond was a top through the four Tests where he played against the Wissindis and then against New Zealand. I think he averaged twenty eight as an opener. Orsman was averaging thirty one. So he wasn't that bad at the top of the order. But at number four, where do you see Is that the right move?
Yeah, I mean get getting back to where he knows and that's the thing he's averaging sixty. I think at number four he tried to do the right thing by the team. You know, they were lacking a batsman. They didn't have a lot of opportunity back then. They could have gone with you know, like a Bancroft back then and kept them at number four. That presented itself that opportunity and he took it. Probably didn't work out the way that he wanted to, and I think he's better suited to come in at number four.
It just feels better. I think that's his natural game.
And it's weird because Australia can be two for two for ten, so people would say, well, hang on, he's batting the first two or three hours anyway, what's the difference.
It's the mindset. It's the way that he believes he has to score runs.
He can take it time facing that brand new ball, and I know, bowling with a brand new ball, the first two o's is crucially if you get it right, you can take wickets. If batsman gets through the first two, three, four overs, it's a different feel because the ball losers sheen, it hasn't as much in the wicket. Definitely, the right option gets Steven Smith back to where he's scoring runs. He might take that average of sixty up to seventy or eighty, who knows.
And I was going to say he's within range of ten thousand Test runs. It's a pretty remarkable career, it.
Is, and he'll be alongside after he finishes the likes of Bradman. You know this, this guy is world class. Steven Smith has been a great leader for Australia, a great scene man. I can speak personally. I've known him for his whole career and love playing with him. I love the energy. Trains as hard as anyone. And what Stephen Smith gets in terms of what he will get out of cricket is exactly what he's put in. And he's, as I said, you know, one of the hardest workers. Deserves everything that comes his way.
One quick one before we move to the Indian So you know so well, just with the fast bowlers and the five Tests, it's a heavy load. With the three champion bowlers in their thirties. How do you see that playing out for the summer. Do you need someone like Scott Bowland who's come back in today and he's also he's obviously he's been thirties, But how do you see the three bowlers holding up through the five Tests against India?
Yeah, the guy.
I really hope that they don't rest any bowlers because I'm all for the balls that they pick. Should play all five games in the Test series. I think it's the crowded burnt that right. If they're going to go pay good money, they want to see their best bowlers, with all due respect to the other players.
That may come in.
Australia blessed with three amazing bowlers and Mitchell Stark, Pat Cummins and Josh hazel Woods so pending fitness, I think they'll play all five Tests. It's such an important series of Border Gavaskar Trophy. It's where it's at now people want to be a part of. But I just really hope that they don't hedge their bets and say, well, we're going to try to stop people getting injured. You know, of course, if you don't, I use your analogy, if you park your carr in the garage. You don't need to take and get its service because it's going to be nice in pristine, but you've got to get it out there.
You know, the body is meant to be running in and having a crack.
Yeah, you know, we don't want to see players get injured and boiling is such an unnatural action, but that's what you sign up to do. And you know, playing Test cricket as a fast billery is the exactly where you know you used to want to be as a cricketer.
So I wish to hope that they played five Test matches.
Now, Brett, has there ever been a better day for New Zealand cricket. You have the Kiwis winning their first Test in India in thirty six years, knocking over that highly vaunted in the in top order for forty six in the first innings, and then the Kiwi women hadn't want to match in ten leading into the World Cup, the T twenty World Cup that's just been completed to come out of champions at the end being in South Africa. In the final, we saw Australia's reign of dominancy invincibles come to an end of the semi final at the end of at the hands of South Africa.
What a day for keewee cricket.
Just some quick observations on the Women's World Cup before we move on onto the Indian team. Alyssa Heally missing was clearly an issue for Australia, but a major major success for New Zealand.
Yeah, with the skipert Midge, you know, obviously with her foot injury wasn't it wasn't great time, but unfortunately you can't you can't predict what's going to happen. It was great, great for the Kiwi's and Paul South Africa in men's and women's. Unfortunately they haven't had the best runs in finals or the best you know wit sort of ratio.
But yeah, great for the Kiwi girls first up to get their.
First title and geez, the guys played so well to get injured at the first innings what I think forty six and then producer, you know, a massive first innings total.
Ravender is so good.
You know, it was just scoring runs and you to be there at the end and just so for ratching to get those runs at the end.
It was outstanding. But a great, great weekend for the Kiwis.
But I can promise you when India come to Australia, even now that they lost that Test against the Kiwis, when India come for Australia, look out, they're going to be ready to go.
Well, I was going to ask you about that.
We see with the Indian batting lineup not to forty six in the first innings, but then in the second you have ye know, Sapparro's Khan making one hundred and fifty Risha part almost a century Coli looking dangerous. You've got that outstanding young batsman Jasul at the top of the order.
They were a very aggressive attack.
In the past we've had Indians had success in Australia, someone like Dravid, who, as I said, your second ever wicket in Test.
Cricket was the wall.
You had Pijara in the last couple of tours here soaking up a lot of the pressure at the top of the order. With this Indian batting attack, you know, quite an aggressive attack. How do you see that holding up in Australia and with the Keywee's, O'Rourke and Henry bowling them out for forty six in the first innings, should the Australian attack take some encouragement from that, or do you see that top order doing some damage here? Oh?
Look, I think what happened was they look, it was a wicket that was probably conduced the fast bowling in that first innings, and they just.
Put the ball in the right spot.
You know, as you mentioned Will Bold particularly well. Henry's obviously brilliant with the ball and a lot more experienced. But India they just didn't sort of going to their shell. And maybe it's that that bass ball that sort of you know, sort of brushing off on other creators around the world. I know that India won't be proud of the way they played. They played some pretty loose shots, but you've got to get quality and credit to the bowls as well, because they bowled some beautiful spells.
They bowled fast, they have some short pitch bowling and timinated the batsman.
And this day and age, you've got India now, which is a powerhouse that don't want to just bow down and do what they used to do with all due respect back in the age of nineties. You know, India used to be quality players, but they never had They couldn't find a way to win on every single opportunity. Now they know how to win and they know they can beat Australia, they know they can beat the Kiwis, they know they can beat anyone on any given day. But unfortunately you've got to weigh up the risk factor as well. There's times where you've got to go okay, well maybe the big shots aren't working and maybe just raining in a little bit. I don't think they sort of summed up the conditions as quickly as what they should have done. I think of the second things they were better, but yeah, it wasn't the case the first.
And now remind you can watch every ball of the next Test between Indire and New zeal And live on Fox Cricket and also on KO just on the as well. What should Australian audiences look forward to with him in the next over the five Test summer.
He's very flamboyant.
It reminds me a lot of shitner I on Channepoor from the West Indies of yesterday, like very similar technique. He's a run machine and he's an aggressive young left hander that's quite whippy, but also it's great at playing that crossbat shot. I love a batsman that plays a cross bat shot. Robert Shalm have been blessed over the years to see him play. One of the best pullers in Test cricket. Jacewell looks to score quickly, generally hits his first ball fall and he'll put the pressure straight back on Australia.
So if the Aussies.
Don't get their length right up front, don't get their pace right up front, he can definitely damage them. So I'm looking forward to seeing how he goes on these wickets. Perth, though that said, will definitely test them out because as we know South Asia and in particularly India, when they come out to Australia, the general is they don't like fast, bouncy wickets.
They used to be the case.
Now they've got Batsman, as I mentioned before, they could play that crossbat shot, so they might try and counter that.
How do you we talked about the Australian attack and not leaving the Ferrari parked in the garage during the summer. How do you see the Indian attack I suppose through the Australian summer. You know they went with the two seamers and the three spinners for the Test against New Zealand. You know what do we think we see Mohammed Chami obviously had the ankle issues et cetera. We saw I think a photo of him bowling to Shuldwin Gel just on the weekend and he's obviously trying to get back and improve that fitness and Saraja as such champion bowlers so outstanding. You know, what do we think will happen? How do you see that attack sort of performing in Australia And what sort of format do you see it? Is it the three seemers?
Do they do? They do they? Who are the spinners? How do you see it unfolding?
Yeah?
Look they've got obviously Ashwan that plays that that for he coet even up the bowling. To be fair, you know he's got approaching six hundred or so Test wickets. He's got beautiful shapes on your bowls. His spinna can bowl that brand new ball. But those names that you mentioned, Muhammed Shamy's got to be fit. I think if India want to win over here, Muhammed Shemy can definitely hold the key.
J just bit Borman. We all know how good Boomer is.
He's a guy that can shake the ball both ways. I think your bowl extremely great with the old ball.
He is a great exponer of reverse swing.
Muhammed Sadaj, you know, it gets that new border talk and when he presents that scene bowled upright, he gets the ball.
To shape away.
That's where a stray can nick off and being dangers certainly on these wickets like Perth, like Adelaide, that can be conduced with the fast bowling.
So to me, it's that combination.
It's those three bowlers plus Ashman as a spinner, and then they've got options, you know with guys at the part time part time spinners that can play a role. But you've got to have those three quicks firing if India want to win.
If it isn't Chami, that's fit.
Do you see anyone you know as a depth bowler or someone that they might pluck from the world. And we saw your dove sort of reaching exceptional speeds. You're also the speeds of one hundred and fifty k' is an hour through the IP else sort of series like THEEP. He's obviously been a very very talented bollet. Who are the possible it needs to look forward to if it isn't Charmi.
The great thing about me having the opportunity to work on the IPL and you see a lot of Indian creators. You get to see these young guys coming through the ranks. Mayank yadav to watch his first game in the IPL recently earlier this.
Year, back in what early March.
I think it may have been to hit one hundred and fifty seven k's first up in his first game, he went off with the side strain.
Unfortunately, his franchise probably brought.
Him back a little bit too early and then did his side again and then they put him on, put him on eyes, put him in cotton wall for a little bit.
But then they literally threw him on the scene when he was ready to go again.
So the great thing about Indury is that they're not worried about how much cricket someone's played, how much they haven't played. A bit like the Sam Concert's what we spoke about before. If he's ready to go, get him in there. And I actually loved that theory because one thing I could promise you is that batsman raka around about that one hundred and thirty five to one hundred and forty K markets when they're bowling high one fifties. I don't care who it is. Now one has to face bowling over one hundred and fifty k's so, yes, she can be a little bit of radick. Yes she can bowl short and wide and get punished.
But he looks as though that he's got the complete package. He's green, he's raw, and he freshened the scene.
I'd be in clad and to go with him. If if Muhamed Shemi's not ready, at least get him in the squad, get him around the team, and if something happens and it presents itself, he might get that opportunity.
And I think he'd do pretty well in these Australian wigts.
First first testa to op the stadium. Not quite the bounce of the Whacker, but it's still got some teeth in.
It, still bouncy anything even first saw his bouncy. Yeah, the whacker used to be a graveyard sometimes for fast battlers too, because everyone saw the carry and see ly go up there and take that wonderful catch, you know with the batsman leaves on length rather than line. But the trick to bowling in person is not to bowl too short. You've got to pitch the ball up. You to buy a lot fuller than what you expect. So that's where a lot of players and I've come unstuck many occasions as at most fast bowlers. So the Indian bowls will have to make sure they pitch their length up around that five and a half meter mark to induce that nick. But yeah, when you've got raw pace as like a Mayn Giada, he actually might suit that wicket.
Well, Brett.
Look, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on Fox forgets to follow on. You've been a member of the Fox Cricket family for a long long time. You've seen so much of India cricket and obviously, as I said, twenty five years since that fantastic debut. It's a wonderful to have your board and thanks so much for being a guest on the follow on.
Absolute pleasure and how lucky.
Viewers Fox this year we've got all India, were England coming next year, then India coming again. It's going to be three amazing seasons, so I can't
