Golf. Is that they anything in golf that doesn't change, anything that changes the best in playing? Is this man a one time winner on the PGA Tour. The point Alan is he didn't go Hollywood. You need a fourth. So I think we can all agree that Echo golf shoes changed the game. When Fred Couples rolled up wearing them without socks, it spoke to their comfort and just sort of that that effortless cool. But you have an Arnold Palmer story I want to hear right. Let let's see. Have I ever told you about my last visit with Arnold? I saw Arnold. I would like to think no reporters or Arnold more than I did when he was in his eighties. My last visit with him was in Latrobe, and I drove there wearing these pathetic birken stocks when I got always I'll just wear my shoes when I get there. But when I got there, all I had was my Echo golf shoes. And Arnold's really formal, and I'm going into his office with my cleaned up Echo golf shoes and almost like checking me out, And he's nodding, and I said, what you're looking at my socks? And these armods like, no, I'm looking at your shoes, And then Arnold talked about all the different shoes he wore and no questioner, Arnold Doug the Echo shoe. I love the Echo Show. I know you do too. Uh. It's a great shoe sales resistant. If it's good enough for Arnold Palmerton, Fred Couples, it's good enough for the rest of you. So go to Echo dot com and um you can find one that fits that you like that people will stare at, like Arnie. So back to Need a Fourth al Right, Hello, this is Alan Chipknuck back for another Need of Fourth podcast. As you know by now, this is the podcast in which myself, Jeff Ogilvie, and Michael Bamberger take turns surprising each other with with eclectic guests. Michael, you brought our our unnamed unknown guests aboard for this episode. Tell tell us a little bit about him. But he's the star of stage and screen. He's Larry David's cousin in real life and on the show. That's a lot of something a lot of people don't know. Oh wow, well, I mean there's so many people who go in and out of out of curb. Give us a little more, a little more health here. Uh he plays a lake side. Jeff, have you ever played lake side? I haven't played legside. I hear it's great though. It is so funny. Yeah. Wait, I was just there not too long ago. Um, did you happen? Did you happen to see a star of stage and screened? Um? Who's Larry David cousin? And both in real life and on a TV show? I didn't, but I think I saw his locker. Would it be would it be rich Kind? Yep? One and only rich come on coming all down? How about his cousin of real life? Well, for the purpose of this show, you are rich. We just stuff up, just go with it. Yeah, now, how rich? How exactly are you guys related? Are your brothers fathers or how does that work? It works if lineage takes you through your family. There was no lineage. My parents didn't even stop at the same Delhi that he did. That his parents and I have not. I've never met him. I don't know him. We played cousins on the show. Okay, for those who don't know rich Kind is a long time Everyone knows rich Kind because he's got a face that literally millions of people know Rich played. Okay, Rich though you you take over? Go ahead. Well, the thing is, are people seeing my face here or are they only hearing seeing you? Absolutely? Yeah? Oh do you know who I am? If you see my face, it's oh him, that's that's Oh does he owe me money high school? Oh? I like him with with with respect, which I think your voice may give you away as well. It does Sometimes people people will will say that they hear me on the street and it's not my face that stops them, it's my voice and they turn around. Rich, I understand you played golf today. Where where'd you play? Who'd you played with? And how'd you go? I will tell you I played in a place called I Can Go Across. Yes, you know what, Michael, I've heard of it, but I don't know it. I didn't know how to pronounce it until just now. Okay, ibs the man writes for a living and cannot put I B I S together. Okay, Uh, this is okay. My dad was a retailer. He had a retail store in Brixton. So Christmas when all the Jews go down to Florida, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it. Rich, You're you're Jewish, according to Larry David. According to his parents, I'm Jewish. So when now you want to come down to Florida. We never did because my dad had to be in at the store because it's Christmas time. Uh yeah, told me story that was there, you know, the big time. So I never came to the state of Florida until I was twenty three years old. So I don't know Florida at all, and I know the people retire here and everything. I have a friend who belongs to a course in uh in Naples and now my friends. Now I've come into sight through ibis. How much do I want to retire? It's unbelievable the life of retirement. You play golf every day. However, I like acting better. Do I like acting better? There was a time when I liked acting better than golf. I don't know whether or not. I love acting. And I have a great job on my show on CBS on Sunday nights called East New York, and I play a cop and I'm not funny on the show, but it's a great, great show. And I can't believe at my age, with my sort of comic resume, I get to play a cop. It's fantastic. So that's what I get to do. And your producers are pretty serious golfer as well. Mike our friend Mike Robin. Yes, Mike Robin, Yes, I thought, yes, Mike Robin. And not only a serious colfer, a pretty great golfer. I think he played for University of Texas and correct, no, I played for the University of Miami in the Nathaniel Crosby era. Okay, yeah, he's a great, great golfer. Oh so beautiful and belongs to the best clubs. He's everything and the nice guy. But you know why he's also nice. The guy is unflappable, unflappable. If he gets angry, you would never know it. Rich, I would like to remind you that Jeff Ogilvie is part of this conversation. He wanted you, he wanted US Open. So when you say that Mike Robin, who's a wonderful golfer, is a very great golfer, where does that leave a Jeff Ogilvie who's one of the US Open. How many various are you going to use for him? Oh? Okay, you want to know something when you play with a professional golfer and you say, wow, great shot. You just get tired of it. They don't need to hear it. They know it. They step up to the ball and they know before they even hit it that the words great shots will be accompanying their swing. And I'm ature golfer, a very good golfer would like to hear it. It's like I was at the range the other day, about a month ago and taking a lesson that always with one of the pros from Lake Side, and there must have been guys all hitting balls, and there was one woman college golfer on the range and he turns to be goes not at least one person knows how to hit the ball at this range, that college golfer, that female knows how to hit the ball. Everybody play he's pretty well, and you go, wow, nice shot. Only one does that make sense? That makes rich. I'm gonna I'm gonna get out of the way here. I'm gonna pose one question for you, for you to ask a question you've got. Jeff og will be here. We all struggle different parts of the game. Jeff. We had Ben Crenshaw on and Jeff asked Ben Crenshaw about putting Rich. Here's your opportunity, get a swing tip or a golf tip from Jeff Ogilvy, and then I'm going to turn over to those guys let takeover. I well, jeez, there's so many the minute that you open that floodgate, there's so many things. How do I stop swaying over the ball. What is the best way to think of that? Because I'm trying to take it back. Of course I'm old. Of course I'm not an athlete, and I'm taking up. I'm doing everything I can to slowly take it back, and yet I'm falling back, and I am swaying so that to get back, and I'm keeping my back behind, but it's at the wrong place behind. How do I stop from that little sway? Because even that three degrees of swaying will affect everything you you know, I don't know if you can answer that. Um you sell a book helping people do that. I don't know. I think I know how to do it. I think most people's concept is wrong. Like most people are trying to hit up on the ball. You might be somewhere inside deep in your concept thinking the club has to be going up to hit the ball rather than down, and it has to be going down because the grounds under the ball, you know, and I think all they which okay, if you're supposed to swing out to uh, you know, do the great field, how can you swing out while swinging down? It's an optical illusion. I understand it's an optical illusion. But you're trying to sweep out to the the right field and hit down on the ground. I wouldn't focus more on the down. This is this is fruitless, Jeff? What that kind of champion? That are you? How many through? Um? Well, I'm going to give you an image that might help you to reduce your swinging. I want you to imagine that you've swallowed a giant rebar. It's gone down through your entire body cavity into the ground, and therefore you can only turn around this piece of steel that's gone through your entire soul and it's it's right through the crack of my ass. I mean I was gonna leave. I'm saying I'm turning on a maple. Yes right. I don't know if Jeff endorses that, but that might help you because I've thought about that and did it help you? Yeah, it didn't really help me, but it's it's a horrifying I coached um girls high school basketball, and I'm always trying to stress the importance of keeping your pivot foot down. And I always say, pretend this giant rusty nail went right through your shoe, right through your foot into the hardwood. You cannot move your pivot foot and it always horrifies them, but it actually works. They've never forgotten that, so I think the same principle applies. Okay, all right, that that's a good answer. I try and do that, you know, sitting on the bar stool with that oh going through my body. I do that. The second thing, I try and extend my left leg, straighten it out. Am I correct? At what pot in your swing? Okay, I'm gonna have to stand up to do it. I go back. I down on my left And then they say, they say, doing this, Am I correct with this? Yeah? It'll strident? Absolutely? Yeah. If I straighten, how do I still stay down While I'm straightening the leg um? The hip supposed to go left like her hips are turning. Like Alan said, if you're on the rag like that, well, he wants me to get my right hip back. So I do this, so the right hip is going to go through because I can't do anything, But how am I staying that? Do I stay? Do I have my right n go down? It's just these contract contra positions are confusing to me. Does this make sense to you? If I am raising my leg, I seem to be standing up. What is the way that you stay down while still extending your left leg? I think which is from Tom on the range? I think we need to go to the drawing range. Okay, Jeff, anything comes out of this, I'd like to go to the rangion. The range is my favorite place. I I sometimes like it more than the golf course, but not the mats, because the mats make me a good player, even when I suck, which I do all the time. I love the range. The bad thing is I live in New York and I had three children. And I will tell you that that an urban area and three children will ruin a golf game. Because I used to be pretty good and then that came into my life. And it just if you ever want to tell anybody, say, don't have children and live close to a arriving range. Of course, kids will ruin a golf game if you're a good parent. If you're a good parent, kids will ruin a golf game. It's about priorities. Rich, I mean, I would say golf golf over parenting. Most of the time you did it wrong. But um, I think I speak for all the listeners when I say that Jeff and Rich is the Buddy movie. We didn't know we needed. Like we look like that, you guys a convertible driving on the Southwest, like stopping and driving ranges like that. That's two hours I would gladly spend twelve dollars on right there. Yeah, I I The bad thing is I am truly a student of the game, and I like It's not that I like changing. I like adding things to my game, whereas I wish I could take the advice of step up and just hit the ball. However, I haven't played much since Thanksgiving, this being January or something like that. Maybe I've played two or three times. I know what's in my head when I have to work on. I played the last two days. I was so bad, it's horrible. Finally today I started doing things right. I started swinging out and yet coming around, which is so interesting to me. And sometimes you know what I found out today, truly what swinging easy means. I truly did. I saw that that I was trying to extend and that kept me stiff, and then just swinging easy and being pretty. I think that that I know that that sounds crazy. I think sometimes being pretty, trying to be a ballet danswer, just trying to have a fluid motion as opposed to doing things right, I think sometimes helps Am I just out of my mind? No? I think that's uh. The secret is not caring if you miss. You know, all these tensions and all these little tighten ups and stuff we do on our dan swings and our swing it's also oh my god, don't go right, don't go right, don't go right, don't go right, or don't go left. We're trying to not do something as opposed to just be free. Like a kid when he hits a bowl, you give him a stick, ands I hit this bowl over there, and I just woke up and hit the bowl over there. They're not trying to hit it bad, right, So it's it's trying to find your way back to your childlike head space. Somehow. This is really how all the best advice is learn while you're young, because then the club head is stronger than your arms. Now, my arms are stronger than the weight of the club head. So I try and take my club head to wear it belongs. Whereas if you're six years old, you can't. You can do nothing but swing the club head correctly because it's you can't control it. I I now look. The question that I really want to ask, that everybody wants to ask, but I will not get an answer, is why am I strong? Why does it sound great? Why is everything moving correctly? And my the ball does not go as far as I want. It's a mystery. We have to go to a driving right. You might be missing the sweet spot. If you miss it, you know I'm alan I'm giving the sweet spot. Oh I'm telling you. The ball goes exactly correctly, and I just end up twenty to thirty yards behind the next guy. I just do. I just do. And I know you lose three yards for every year that you you know, as you grow older. But I should not be hitting it as short as I am. And I'm hitting it. It sounds great, it looks great. I was with a force of this morning. I didn't know anybody, and they're going, oh, you're pretty great. Oh you go, what beautiful golf swing? I don't. However, for these guys, and they're pretty good. They were single digits proud of my golf swing. It just it kills me. It's just upsetting. It was the last time you've got a new driver, and where you custom fit for it. It's it's all, okay, well let's not go there. Because they're gorgeous clubs and they're great. I I can hit them well, they were customed in. Do you really believe the custom fitting makes that big a difference? I do. I mean, you know. Then let me ask you something, because I think this is interesting. Your custom fit for golf clubs and then you completely change your swing. The feature tells you, what do you do? Get fit again? So you have to get fit again? But how how much are you changing your golf swing at this point in your life? I mean, what you think? It's a change? Interesting? Alan, I changed it dramatically. Sounds like it changes dilate there it changes from hold to hold. Yeah. No, I have truly truly changed it dramatic, dramatically. I am using much more of my arms than I am when I was learned when I was young to use your body. He you know, he just says, look when you throw a ball, you know, you don't think of, oh my gosh, how did I just you know, switch and where where did they go? You throw the ball and your body follows. So he has me dropping the club and then swinging out you like. That's that's where you lost thirty yards. You've got this hand zy arms, flippy swing. You gotta use the big muscles. You gotta turn. That's where the speed is. Am I right? Jack saying that they that they come into they they come into play without your even question. Again, you can't even you don't even think about it, which is what? Which is why you can find another one. That's my advice. He's great. I'm hitting the ball really well. I used to have a nice draw to the ball. I don't anymore. But you know, oh god, he's he's a great teacher. He's tremendous. And uh but he cost you thirty yards? How great can he be? You just lost thirty yards because the teacher. I don't know. I'm hitting this the same distance I've always done this. I was. I think part of it is is I'm trying to hit the ball, you know, with with this whereas I used to cop uh, So that is one thing that he has taught, so I'm consistent with that. But I I used to scoop. He has got me. I just need lesson after lesson and driving ranging after driving rage. And I got to join a golf club in New York. I never belonged to golf club in New York, and that's where I live. I belonged to a great course out in l A. Regularities, the sacred, absolutely absolutely consistency. Just do it all the time. Um So outside of the standard of your game was if I replace as you played? Have you played everywhere around the world or around the country, Jeff, I honestly have. I've been very I am a blessed, blessed man. I will tell you that one of my favorite places Michael has taken the bill and he remembers it Pine Valley. I just love Pine Valley. Uh. My favorite place to play in the world is Rivieria. It's my favorite and I play well there all the time. I don't know why I always break ninety there, it's I just play well there. Um Uh. What I loved well. Castle Stewart in Scotland has great memories for me, and the one that's right by the railroad tracks in Scotland. You get off the train and you're right there. Prestwick's at Prestwix on a try and train. Lots of them are on a try and actually stand. But I mean you step off and you're in the clubhouse. Do you know which one you know? Well, you shouldn't have it. Sounds like Prestwick was the first hole totally blind to no fairway. You can only hit like a seven iron off the team. I don't remember. It was so many years ago. It's just, um, I really do love I mean, I'm uh, are you are you? Have you played the Discovery Properties? I've played a few of them? Um, what's that one? Great fun? Yeah? And I love I love the Eldorado And I've been lucky enough to play that a few times because I have a few friends who belong there and I'm a good friend with Mike Melbin. So I've been a very very lucky recipient of some of those. Oh the one that that that's in um is a quarter lane? Is that the quartelines? That plan? Yeah, that's just that is stunning. And I stopic trip. He has not nenna do with golf, but I went took a trip with my family and we were going to Bryce Canyon and my son didn't want to take take the hike, and I said, Max, there is no more beautiful place on the earth than where we are right now, and he goes, Dad, you know, I'm not a fan of scene of me, and that just always made me lab But that course in Cord Lane is just as scenic of places you'll ever play. But all of its courses are they're they're just they're beautiful. Um So I do like that where else? And I, um, you know that I've never been to Hilton Man where else. Okay, I'm gonna tell you. I think Pebble is great. I mean, Pebble is just fantastic. And I refused to play there unless I'm taken there. I think that the how they overcharge that ruins around the golf for me, that's that's somebody with a big swagger saying, hey, look at me, We'll charge is six around and you gotta pay a caddy and that's and you gotta stay in our hotel. It's enough that this is an elite sport, but when you wear it on your sleeve like that, I think it's disgraceful. I just do you prefer like humble municipal courses like Riviera? I get it, but there are great municipal courses mont Talk Downs. I love the one up north nearest Sanders Abispo and all of the there's a beautiful one. I can't remember names. My Beth, Beth Pipe, Black Breaker, Beth, all of those and you know something else, Beth. They're all great at Beth Page, the Red, the Armored. Do you agree with that? I mean, yes, Beth Page, Black phenomenal, but they all are, and they're all difficult than they all play long. I think I think they're great. Uh. Yeah, I've just been a lucky recipient of being taken to many played what he called Ridgewood out in New Jersey. Is so great, these hidden gems. Uh, I've been what's the one in? Uh in uh Pittsburgh open Yuh. I'm just lucky. I'm lucky, lucky, lucky. Michael give us a scattering report on Riches game. We've heard a lot from him, but I want an expert, you know, view on this. I played well with Michael, or with our dear Fred j or with Mike Robin, I've not played well. Did you play well with my close personal friend Davis. I loved the third with who David's love the Third? I did? I played well with him? Did did? Did he say? I played awful? You were about forty nine at the time, and I believe Davis's exact quote was, if you could find a range, she could probably lay his way onto the senior Tour. I believe that's exactly what he said. Oh, that's terrible what he did not. But we played like three holes and I played pretty okay with him. How did you play with Fred? With who? Fred Couples? I think I was looking at his game more than mine. That's smart, I don't think. I think I'll tell you who. I played very well with um Um French Scoffer. What's his name? No, No, No, he's not French. He's uh oh skinny. Oh what's his name? Lovely guy? I played at that I think of the hope with him, and he was playing so poorly and I was playing so well. He forgot his game and he just kept coaching me. Um um um Oh, he's such a lovely man. Maybe Sweetish would help um Um Patterson No, no, no, they said Finn thing sorry. Robert Carlson, No a funny French name. Oh my god, you know exactly. I am such a bad interview because I bring up stories and people and I go, oh, you know who it is? Uh? Rich Rich, have you kept up your membership at Lakeside? I have? For those who don't know, lake Side, it's an old timey Hollywood hang out. Bing Cross Bebley was a member there. I think Bob Hope was, remember there, Rich, that's I think Rossy was club champion for many years. Uh. It's a it was the you know, they did not let actors into l a country club, so the actors had to uh create their own club and they did in the valley. Uh. And this is uh Bob Hope being clubby. But I mean people like Johnny Weiss Mueller, Oliver Hardy, Uh, William Frawley for my love Lucy, Humphrey Bogart. Uh are we allowed the curse on this show? Okay? I I mean I I uh uh if if. Some of the legendary stories is that Humphrey Bogart uh came up to the to the starter and said, is anybody going out? And they go Bill Fields is going out? W C. Fields. He's on the first team. So Humphrey Bogart comes up. He goes, uh, listen, if you mind if I join you, and supposedly W. C. Field says, if I wanted to play with my dick, I go home and to play with that dick. I go home and play with myself. That's what he said to hum Boger. Um Forest Tucker, who was can I tell all these stories that are legendary about lead side? Okay, they're much more interesting about where than where I played? Um? Uh. Forest Tucker was supposed to be very very well endowed and he was a member of If you don't know who Farest Tucker is, he was the captain in uh F Troop and he was very very well hung and supposedly he had a putt that they wouldn't give him. He said, really, you're not giving me that put They don't know they what do we want to see it? He goes, I could put that in with my dick, at which point he pulled out his dick and put it in that. That's just in the podcast. Now. I don't think what can you keep that in the podcast? I don't know the podcast. Jean, what's his name? Jehan? John? No? No, no, he wears he wears a hat to decide Jesus Jesper. Part of it was playing so poorly that he like almost gave up and just kept coaching me. I was really playing well, So there are certain times. It was one of those days to play well. I played well with Rich Beam. I had played with Rich just after he won the Open, and uh Andy I happened to have played with him, played very well. There are times when I play well, but these are years ago. These three years ago, I like I said, kids, they ruined my game. As you surely know. You know. Link Soul is a clothing and a lifestyle brand. I've been wearing it for at least a decade. It's cool stuff, it's super comfy. One of the fire Pit loves it. We're believers. If you go to linksol dot com and use the promo code fire Pit five, you will get off your purchase. You're welcome, and we're also giving away a two links sold gift card per episode. So go to the fire Pit YouTube channel and leave a comment from this episode and say how much you loved it, because surely you're loving it. You're a golf fan. You have to be loving this and the winners will be note fight and promoted on our Instagram and our Twitter feeds. So get involved. We're trying to have some fun. We also have to pay the bills here at the fire Pit Collective. So back to Nita fourth. Michael completely punted on giving a scouting report in your game. So what is what's the lowest pit index ever? Did you ask Freddy Couples about my game? He doesn't remember my game. I think he wouldn't remember my thing. I think Fred's precise words were how old is Rich? And I said he's forty nine and a half. Fred said, good, six months. If you can get himself to the range, I think he can make it on the Senior Tour. I believe that's what he said. You're recycling your stories. You know. Fred doesn't have any original thoughts. He just repeats whatever David says. Here's here's Rich's game. And Jeff brings up a lot of tennis analogies. He'll especially appreciate this. You know, guys who take you know, they want you to take the ball when it's high, but some guys wait for it to go down and then they get low and they come up on it and they turn it over and it doesn't have great velocity, and it's about a yard or two over the net. But it's deep. It's deep, and it's heavy. That's rich with fourteen clubs including ter. It's deep and it's heavy, it's in play. He's got actually a beautiful rhythm. His question, which I would love to ask the same question of Jeff, is a very telling one because it shows a level of self awareness, which is so important, of course in life, but let's forget about life. Engulf self awareness is so important. He moves considerably off the ball, as do I. It's very rhythmic, and it's it's kind of flat for a big tall man and it and it doesn't go very high, and it goes far in the ground and it's deep. So it's a very effective game. And you could absolutely bring rich anywhere, which I'm surprised you don't play in the A T and T Tournament, the Pebble Beach pro Am, because you'd be perfect for that, thank you. I was asked once and I turned it down because I had an opportunity to be in a movie with Alan Arkin, and I was going to do scenes with Alan Arkin, and that's what I chose. To do. He made a bad decision. But that's okayision. I would love to play in the A T and T. I would kill the player. Okay, here's a story. Back in the day when I was a decent player, I won the Bing Crosby. How about that for my resume. We don't really rich. If I may, we don't know what you're talking about. I won. I won the Big Crosby Championship. Here's oh Bing Crosby tournament was started at Lakeside. It was the clam Bake. They got all the talent that was at Lakeside when he was in his prime, and they all performed. They moved it up the Pebble Beach and put bing Crosby's name on it. In his will, bing Crosby said, this tournament can never go corporate. Well, we know that the world has changed and they could not afford to keep it without a corporate sponsor. A T and T took it over, but in his will they were not allowed to call it the bing Crosby A T and T. It was called the A T, A T and T. So they took the bing Crosby to South Carolina? Am I correct? Is that? What if there there there's a tournament. Sarah Lee was the sponsor, but it was the It was the Bing Crosby. None of them sounds correct, but keep going, no, no, no, this is correct. On what I'm telling you was the truth. I don't believe there were any professional golfers, but there was. It was still a charity event called the Bing Crosby. You got paired up, a celebrity got paired up with either somebody who were bought in or a Sarahly executive, of which I did, and the two of us want it, and we split a hundred and twenty thousand dollars to uh to donate to different charities. Alan, you want to hear a shocker. It's totally correct. Uh, there are the rich one second, Alan, there are many threads that are wildly off, but the big picture is correct. In eighties, six mrs after Bing died. Ding Bing died in about seventy four, Being was dead and Mrs Crosby do you remember her name? Rich Mary Katherine not married? She she She and Nathalie took the event to South Carolina for a or too, and I think they did call it the Being Crosby. I think longer than two years. It was for a few years. Sarahly was the sponsor. That's true. And you don't need any money, and I have I wanted I did. I wanted it city that people kept coming up to me, Oh, don't give give some money to my charity. And I mean it was like a lottery winner. You don't want to be a lottery winner. Okay, you want to hear. You want to hear golf story. You're not gonna want to hear. I'm playing Sherwood, of which Sean Connery belonged to Sherwood. Sean Connery comes up behind us. You know we're gonna let him play through. He's a member when he's Sean Connery, and we're gonna let him play through. I hit a ball to the right. There's water like a creek along on the right to par five. I push the ball to the right. Up comes Sean Connery. Sean Connery really pushes it to the right into the water. We don't say anything. He goes up because up ahead it's a ball. Keeps playing. I go up. My ball isn't there. I look in the water. There's a Sherwood ball. I don't have a Sherwood ball. That's right where his ball would have been. He hit mine and he pulled the gold finger. And I tell my son, I tell my son this story. I say, Honey, you never ever cheat. Because Sean Connery does not remember that shot, that whole that round of golf. It means nothing to him, and yet his cheating will be remembered for the rest of my life. I played at bel Air Country Club right in front of James Gardner who was a member, and um, Michael, Michael, do you remember our our editor friend Greg Kelly Sports Illustrated. He was a very deliberate golfer, and um, and James Gardner was was not happy. And we probably played in four hours and fifteen. We were not horribly slow, but it was slower than he wanted. And um, he was writing our ass the entire round. And finally on eighteen he hit into us and like stormed up and I'll never I'll never watch another James Gardner show on re run after that. Yes, so these these things have lasting repercussions. I'll tell you that you were probably planning to slow. My point is, why will he should have taken action sooner? We would let him play through, But he just was just this brooding presence behind us the whole the whole time. Anyway, Well, I've got I've got two things to say. Alan. Number One, there is nothing bad about letting somebody go through. Ever, even if you're playing quickly. If somebody's playing quicker or wants to come through, what the hell you're talking about four to six minutes of your life let them go through. It doesn't, it's not. It's nothing bad. And the second thing is, I would rather play even if I'm not playing leisurely, even if I'm playing quickly. I don't want anybody on my tail ever, ever, ever, ever on my tail that makes me feel upset. And you know it's it's like I don't want anybody throwing clubs. Not because of that, is because, especially if I'm gambling, if somebody's unhappy, I'm such an empathetic person. I'm gonna want that person to win because he's so upset, even though I'm gonna lose money. So I said to play for some money. Now you've given us that. Oh yeah, yeah, but you don't throw clubs. Do you have you ever thrown a club? Jeff? Maybe you really? Have you ever thrown a club? Well? You played for a long time and you care about what you do. Yeah, it happens. I didn't say you didn't get upset. I'm not saying you didn't pound a club into the ground. I said, did you ever throw a club? It's happened. I'm not proud of it. Sometimes you stick them on your grips, you know, sometimes your grips get slippery. Did you ever do it at a tournament? What we have to define what a throw is? I think it's a it's a frisbee. It's never gone more than five yards, probably, but sometimes it needs to get back to the you've flipped it, somebody trying to throw and a toss, yeah flip, Yeah, you've it. No, I've said I throw a club. Golf is a gentleman's game, and that's why you let people go through. I'm sorry, you can't act like a gentleman. I can go through. You want to be an asshole, You be an asshole. Here's the red carpet, go on through. That's just how I play. There's nothing more fun than watching someone employed on the golf course side nothing I agree with that. I agree with that. The only way that I let them throw a club is I will then go, I got you right where I want to. You're gonna lose so much fucking money. I'm going to wring my hands at the end. Yes, Michael, I have never met a golfer who has not thrown the club at some point in their life. If, if, if, and if you are that golfer, I standing off, standing off, I will never throw a golf club. I will put it down, I will go, oh my god, and it will toss and it will fall. But I'm talking about and throw it and it. I had one last year where I was a short part five and I hit it well and Baul sitting up in the left rough and I thought I could get home with a hybrid, and the three other guys were on the far right, and it's just perfect. Uh, it's inviting. It's like sitting on a tea. And I whipped and I topped it and went into the lake and I threw that club as far as I possibly could. While that club was in the air, my first low was, oh fuck, now the balls in the water and the club is to The second thought is do not make any eye contact, because then for sure you're caught. Anyway, was in the water club was not but that was only that that was only last year at six one. So and so you will you've thrown and you are a very even field man. We all lose it. I've heard. I've heard it's difficult to throw them straight to I've heard that is the guy who throws it. It hits the tree and bounces back and hits him in the head and kills him. Rich There there was a can you help us out here? There was a thing very well Matt Damon. There was a bit about Matt Damon and something in d c its on the internet. Can you fill us? And what is that whole thing about? I will tell you, And then you're gonna ask me to tell the story. I don't tell the story. Uh. George Clooney is one of my best friends, and they're an opportunity for personal reasons, came up where he had to be my roommate for a couple of months, and so he stayed in my apartment. While he lived in my apartment, he uh did a practical joke and he took a dump in my kitty little BOMs. Now that is the shortened and very shortened of the story. I don't tell the story. Anymore, Let's move on, which what what can George? What can George shoot on a good day? On a good day, he broke eighty at Sat Sherwood years ago. He's a very good athlete. However, he and he was a great baseball player. And as you know, a baseball players and ockey players can hit the ball. But if he doesn't have the natural swing, and he doesn't know how to get there, because he doesn't know the mechanics of a golf swing, those are mechanics of a baseball bat. But if he doesn't know the mechanics of a golf swing, and at is off kilter, and there, you know, you're just a couple of degrees off taking a backer coming in, you all shoot a hundred and twenty. And he's somebody who used to get it. He's good at everything. He's good at being good at everything. So he's he's been touched by God. And he's a good athlete. He's he's a good ping pound player and a tennis player and a basketball player. But a golf we all know, if you're not on, oh you are you off? And he was off and he can get off. And he used to throw the club and then he just realized, as we all do, we're not good enough to warrant being angry. It's just what we are, what we get it. We can be upset, we can be really upset. And now when I'm playing great, there's nobody you want to play with other than me. If I'm playing great, and if I'm playing poorly, just I'm just and I'm a nice man, and just get out of my way. Just shut off. So upset that I don't for a club, Jeff, I don't rich. What can Larry David? What can Larry David shoot on a good day? Okay, I gotta tell you a couple of stories about Larry David. Number one, I was at El Dorado, uh, playing with Larry. I was one of those days where I was playing really well. I would get in the card to go, oh my god, just so good, Oh my god, you're such a good golfer. Oh my god. Just it made me laugh so hard because that day I was a really good golfer and he was playing fine. He wasn't playing badly. I was playing magnificent. All the couple was going, oh my god, you're so good, You're so good. I don't believe so I played well that day. Uh, here is a great story about Larry. You're all familiar with the Curb Your Enthusiasm episode with the white swan. Right, yes, okay. In the episode, we're filming it at Mountain Gate. There is a hole there which, if you know Mountain Gate, you hit straight out a drive. All you want is straight and then all you want is straight to the left. It is as right and it is as left angled or right angled a hole as you could ever wish for. You hit it there, You hit it there. Okay, it is there, and there he's supposed to pull the golf ball into the water where he goes down to retrieve his ball, and there he gets attacked near the water by a white swan. So what he was gonna do? They turned the camera, the cameras behind him. When you hit a golf ball, unless you're tracking it or you have those special cameras that golf cameras are, you can see where the golf ball is. He hits the ball and they're gonna say, we just hit it three times, and uh, we're not gonna yell cut just but just get down hit three times. And after each shot we're supposed to go oh you pull the Ahe what the same? Uh? Nice? Try you pull the eye like that? He gets up one A, two, no, three A. No camera cuts. Oh my god, everyone straight, straight, straight. They must have been within six inches of each other. It's because he had no He didn't have to hit the ball. He was supposed to hit the ball poorly, and so he was relaxed. He was supposed to look like it was bad. He swung perfectly. If that is not a lesson for this podcast, I don't know what is everyone. You couldn't go down and place it in a more perfect spot? Three balls? Boom, boom boom. Did you just talk to your wife? No, Michael Bama, I did not talk to my wife. Now, who are you talking? Who's more important than me right now? Who could possibly be more important than your wife and me? Nobody? Rich then you were talking like this, I saw you. Well, we did um this morning. We did our our company zoom. And you know, we've got a guy in Michigan who snowed in here in here in California. It's quite chilly today. And Michael turns his camera on and it's palm trees and he's in shorts and a T shirt. He's glistening in the sun, and I was like, wow, Philadelphia has really changed. It's not what we remember. And so he's been taking Trappel all day long. So are you are you? Are you in in in uh Orlando? No, I'm in North Palm Beach. I'm at a public golf course at North Palm Beach. You're at Palm Beach. I'm in North Palm Beach. I'm Beach. I know you are here in Boca. I know. Oh my god, where were you playing? I was just hitting balls at at a driving ranger. But they have as they have a grass range, but unfortunately on days you can only hit off the mats. I have a question Saturday morning if I can get if we need a fourth for a key time? Did you say need a fourth? You're totally totally on brand. And then I'm flying home to see that the your Eagles lose to my giants. That will be very exciting for one of us. All right, Alan, Alan, I'm gonna turn this over to you. You do as you wish from here on to the house. I don't want to I don't want to tell you how good a golfer Larry is. Larry like me. Whenever anybody asks what's my handicap? I say, look at me, that's my hand again. Larry is a very very good golfer. And if you want to talk to him about anything, talk to him about his golf swing and you will have his attention and you won't have to worry about him being a curm Adrian. He will talk golf for as long as you want. He loves it. Okay, well, I think we just found another guest for the needed fortune not getting. But he will talk. It would be thrilled. I thought you were offering to make it happen. Rich, aren't you gonna broker it? I could text him and say you may have a good time. You guys are all very nice, but I'm very forgiving. What sport do you think? What? What athletes do you think play the best? Golf? Hockey? Jeff? I couldn't agree with you more definitely. I am astounded, astounded, and how good they are? Astounded? I think are good. I think ballplayers are good. For quarterbacks are good. The quarterbacks are good quarterbacks, um Derrick Anderson, Um, yeah, but yeah. The hockey players have got such a good move. Say they hit down on it? Players are hitting down. You know, they're not trying to get Underneathan Park there on top of it, and they're smashing it into the os And that's what I do with the bowl, and I hit the bowl instantly. Welley players fantastic, but also their touched. I was at a tournament in somewhere in California and they had to hit over a branch, onto a tree, I mean, onto a green. They were they were spectacular, spectacular. Luckily I did it. I mean, but that's when I was good. Now it's you know, it would be under the branch and across the green. It's just my my chipping is just it's ten stokes, just ten strokes of my game are because I scalded across and I think I'm doing it right, and I think I'm doing it right, and it's just upsets me, upsets me to nowhere. Um. But I was a cart boy for three summers at Pebble Beach Golf Links and that's kind of where I learned how to play golf. And the NHL Players Association came out. They had some sort of boondoggle with a bunch of the players and it was like eight am. They all came the first t about twenty of them. Everyone's drinking hard already, and Jeremy Roenick was the first guy to hit. And if you know the first hole at Pebble Beach, even though you don't like to pay the greens feed there rich, but you may recall, it's a it's a short dog leg part four. It's only a hybrid, maybe a four iron. They weren't they weren't even playing it. All the way back. He has his driver and everyone's saying, so, that's too much club, there's too much club. You can't driver here. He's like, no, I'm just gonna fade it around the corner and try and hit it on the green. And he wound up hitting it dead straight and it went over the bunker, over the tree, and almost hit this house up on the hill that's never been in play for any human being. And I got and these guys fell down on the t box. It's one of the most memorable golf swings I've ever seen. But oh, that that's all that. That's like my club. If you know, uh, thirteen, uh, twelve and thirteen are two very short par four's. Uh, And so I said to the guests that I had put your drive away. You don't want to hit driver. And Uh anyway, we got to the vo which a butts that thing, and the guy on the tee was hitting a driver and he goes, well he's hitting the driver, and go well, that guy's an idiot. And it was. He's old time Australian. Uh goffer. Oh like, I can't think of his name, but it was he was. He was a world champion golfer. Hit degree with his driver. So I can't think who it is. All I remember is we've gotten a huge fight. Uh Democrat Republican. He was a huge right winger. You know what I'm talking about, Jeff. It could be he could be. You're right, I know I I got. I got the huge fights with GWayne Gretzky over all of that stuff. So look, I stick my nose in it anywhere. Clearly, as as Michael Murphy want said on this podcast, this is a dangerous group. I love it. Uh well, richid been extremely generous with your time. I've loved it. I've loved it. Before we send you back out into the wilds of a a Florida retirement community. Uh, any final stories you want to share from your vast repertoire or this is your last chance to offend our listens. Yeah, I do. I have one one story. This is all about me. My dad wanted me to play golf so badly, and all I said was I don't want to And my dad said, okay. And I said to my kids, I'm not going to do that to you. You're gonna learn how to sing the golf club now, being in New York and stuff to do that. But all my kids know how to swing a club. They don't know how to play, but they all know how to swing a golf club. I said, you don't have to go out and play, but I believe that a young person, that every young person should learn the game of golf and not play. They should learn because the day will come when they want to play and their body will know how to make that turn and what to aspire to. When I finally took up the game and I started playing with my father, I'll have to stand for this. If I'm hitting, shipping towards the pin, go like that. This particular teacher at the time had me face the target and swing like this, So my hips were already facing towards the target. And I go up and I go up to chip the ball and my dad goes, what are you doing? They I'm chipping the ball and he goes, no, no, no, no, no, what are you What are you doing with your heads? Hit the ball? And I go, I am my My teacher said, but because no, you don't do that. And I go, it's what my teacher said. Do you want to know what kind of man? What kind of golfer my dad was? This is what he said, Look, son of mine, chips a ball like that. I salute him because that was not the way to the ball, of course, but that doesn't matter that that's what your teacher tells you. You do that. Of course you change over the years. That It always made me laugh. That's how commanding my dad was. It's as loud as he was. He loved it. When he passed away. He was a six handicap. I wish I'd be played for the army. You know. He was a great golfer. Uh and he was a very qure garious and loud, loud man. So to say that, that's that's who I was raised by. It that's my dad. I love it. Well. Lend it on a story about my dad. Yeah, it's a nice it's a nice grace note after some of the other topics we covered on this podcast. But he was tired to a place called Champion Hills, which is Tom Fazio's. It's such a glorious course. Tom Fazzio moved his family there and used his family there in North Carolina. I love that. That's beautiful. Outside of nice, but a pleasure, Michael. I never get to see you, so it's truly nice to see same here, Richard, Thank you, thank you brilliant. Well that was rich kind. My cheeks are actually sore from smiling for an hour and ten minutes. Whatever that was. That was ridiculously fun. Thank you for me that happened, Michael, Yea, it was great. Yuh. He was a good guy. And uh, he actually is very self aware. How he described his golf game really is how he plays, and he does try to catch it on the upswing every every club he tries to catch on the upswing and it goes very low. Yeah, well he clearly loves it. Um thing wrong. He loves it. Yeah, uh yeah, that was I mean, well, well, we'll huddle up with our our editor, Jake Muldowney exactly what's going to make the final cut, because it was he worked a little blue, but you know that's part of the fun. We're all adults here. I think it's all gonna stage Jake whatever you're discomfort level maybe, but yeah, that was that was great stuff. All Right, we're gonna we're gonna end this podcast. Um. Jake said I should ask him about red Oaks, his show, and I forgot. It was in my head the whole time and I never got there. But Jake, I'm gonna have an answer for you. Rich Kind was on a show called red Oaks. It was said at a country club I think in suburban New York, and Jake did remind me of it, and I am aware of it, and I'm sorry I didn't get to it, but I will get you an answer. All right, we've been Jeff go here. Yeah yeah, so um, this was the need of fourth podcast. Thank you for listening. We have a lot of fun guests lined up, so h for Jeff Ogilvie, Michael Bamberger, Richard Kind, I'm Alan Schipnuk. Thanks for listening, and we'll do it again soon. Mm hmmm mm hm. Oh my god. It's a dangerous group here