Getting it in the hands of the greatest players in the world, that's the number one thing, that's the convincing part. And then when Lucas Glover, that's classic case in point, you know, wins back to back at possibly the most critical time of the year. So just so and off things go, so and more and more people will Zelatorus is playing great. He's just had twenty two puts today in the third round of the Genesis Invitational at Riviera, which is arguably possibly some of the toughest greens to put on with the poe of their pure but tricky breaking. I think he'll hold over well. The footage of puts was crazy, and really at the end of the day, winning all comes down to putting, basical at the end of the day. So I'm just waiting for Scotti Scheffler to get one in his hands and the world, the world will be a better place for him.

Getting it in the hands of the greatest players in the world, that's the number one thing, that's the convincing part. And then when Lucas Glover, that's classic case in point, you know, wins back to back at possibly the most critical time of the year. So just so and off things go, so and more and more people will Zelatorus is playing great. He's just had twenty two puts today in the third round of the Genesis Invitational at Riviera, which is arguably possibly some of the toughest greens to put on with the poe of their pure but tricky breaking. I think he'll hold over well. The footage of puts was crazy, and really at the end of the day, winning all comes down to putting, basical at the end of the day. So I'm just waiting for Scotti Scheffler to get one in his hands and the world, the world will be a better place for him.

Put another log on all the five.

Put another log on all the five.

Nobody here is given time.

Nobody here is given time.

Welcome to the fire pit with Matt Chanella. Here we go part five of this story about how and why lab Golf has stormed the gates of the old guards of putting and the technology in putters. From Bill Pressey's issues with his putter in twenty twelve.

Welcome to the fire pit with Matt Chanella. Here we go part five of this story about how and why lab Golf has stormed the gates of the old guards of putting and the technology in putters. From Bill Pressey's issues with his putter in twenty twelve.

LAB was ultimately started as a as a desperate attempt to fix my own yips, because I had the yips really bad, like I was shaking, like the putter when I took it back, maybe rotated in thirty three different directions by different degrees.

LAB was ultimately started as a as a desperate attempt to fix my own yips, because I had the yips really bad, like I was shaking, like the putter when I took it back, maybe rotated in thirty three different directions by different degrees.

It is, just.

It is, just.

Couldn't stop it.

Couldn't stop it.

To Press's garage where he invents his revealer and ultimately the original directed force putter, which he sold at the trunk of his car. People like Matt Holme and Stuart Smith had a big impact on the boutique business. Then along comes Sam Han.

To Press's garage where he invents his revealer and ultimately the original directed force putter, which he sold at the trunk of his car. People like Matt Holme and Stuart Smith had a big impact on the boutique business. Then along comes Sam Han.

They were about to close the doors, and I'd ask Bill to put me in touch with the guys that he was partnered with, worked out a deal with them. Me, my dad, and my brother all put everything together and bought out Bill's existing partners. And that's how the whole thing, that's how LAB started. So then at that point, so that was late twenty seventeen, I think we were officially, you know, business married in early twenty eighteen, and we were off to the races.

They were about to close the doors, and I'd ask Bill to put me in touch with the guys that he was partnered with, worked out a deal with them. Me, my dad, and my brother all put everything together and bought out Bill's existing partners. And that's how the whole thing, that's how LAB started. So then at that point, so that was late twenty seventeen, I think we were officially, you know, business married in early twenty eighteen, and we were off to the races.

Through some hustle and sweat marketing. Han gets putters in the bags of Jeff Sluman, von Taylor, people like Kelly Slater, the eleven time world champion of surfing and scratch golfer, founded on his own but was influencing others.

Through some hustle and sweat marketing. Han gets putters in the bags of Jeff Sluman, von Taylor, people like Kelly Slater, the eleven time world champion of surfing and scratch golfer, founded on his own but was influencing others.

I've just spoken about the club to anyone and anyone who wants to listen, and generally I'll just play with people and they'll see me roll the ball and it just rolls so pure off the club that they can't help but ask about it.

I've just spoken about the club to anyone and anyone who wants to listen, and generally I'll just play with people and they'll see me roll the ball and it just rolls so pure off the club that they can't help but ask about it.

So Leader's friendship with Adam Scott leads to Scott not only trying one, he made it his gamer.

So Leader's friendship with Adam Scott leads to Scott not only trying one, he made it his gamer.

There's a fabulous stuff going on with the lab from the grip to the head, other angles in between, and being so non traditional it raised his eyebrows for sure. But I just had this sense like this, you know, if you can embrace what this potter does and stay out of your own way, the results could come. And I just had this feeling and I said it to Sam, although it didn't pan out, but like, this was the potter that can win around Augusta.

There's a fabulous stuff going on with the lab from the grip to the head, other angles in between, and being so non traditional it raised his eyebrows for sure. But I just had this sense like this, you know, if you can embrace what this potter does and stay out of your own way, the results could come. And I just had this feeling and I said it to Sam, although it didn't pan out, but like, this was the potter that can win around Augusta.

We ended Part four with independent validation from Adam Beach of My Golf Spy.

We ended Part four with independent validation from Adam Beach of My Golf Spy.

I think it's unfortunate, you know, golfers aren't as willing to try unconventional things. But if more golfers were willing to try this unconventional putter, I'm very confident that more golfers would sink more cuts.

I think it's unfortunate, you know, golfers aren't as willing to try unconventional things. But if more golfers were willing to try this unconventional putter, I'm very confident that more golfers would sink more cuts.

So you're caught up again. Lab Golf is rolling literally and figuratively, and we're building to the Lucas Glover story, which will include insight and thoughtful reflections from Glover, plus his agent, one of his best friends, a Navy seal, the Lab Tour Rep. Han Pressey, and a few more. But before the back to back wins in August of twenty twenty three, we're going back to twenty eighteen to a hitch in Lab Golf's giddeup to a time in the company's history in which they received pushback from an Australian short game guru, a journeyman who's widely respected for his articulate takes on chipping and putting and in this case, for questioning labs lie angle and balance. Here's Sam Hahn again, the CEO of Lab Golf.

So you're caught up again. Lab Golf is rolling literally and figuratively, and we're building to the Lucas Glover story, which will include insight and thoughtful reflections from Glover, plus his agent, one of his best friends, a Navy seal, the Lab Tour Rep. Han Pressey, and a few more. But before the back to back wins in August of twenty twenty three, we're going back to twenty eighteen to a hitch in Lab Golf's giddeup to a time in the company's history in which they received pushback from an Australian short game guru, a journeyman who's widely respected for his articulate takes on chipping and putting and in this case, for questioning labs lie angle and balance. Here's Sam Hahn again, the CEO of Lab Golf.

You're Brett Rumford. Yeah, Robbie, Yeah, there's a fucking legend, absolutely the.

You're Brett Rumford. Yeah, Robbie, Yeah, there's a fucking legend, absolutely the.

Guy and how does he fit in.

Guy and how does he fit in.

Bits in twice? This is great, so very early on he gets it. So he's a thinker. So he's always been an extraordinarily competent putter. But what's different about him than like a Brad Faxon is that like Brett's like, I'm gonna put well because I know how a putter needs to move, so I'm happy to try anything because I can make the putter move how it needs to move. So he was always tinkering and always trying. He was actually one of the first guys to be super competent with a broomstick, despite the fact that, again he was already a very competent putter. And so he emails us very early on, maybe twenty eighteen, because there was there. We had a weird little presence in Australia because Bill's dad is actually Australian, so we had some putters over there. Runny got a hold of one there and he emails us and kind of gives us some feedback, and he's like, you know, I get what you guys are trying to do, but the way that this thing sets up is fucked, And I'm like, well, what do you mean. He's like, it doesn't sold properly because if I put your press grip you know, I don't know if you've seen him enough. Like the crooked grip we got on the putters there, if I actually put that thing to neutral, the face opens up. And at this point, I mean, this is this is like literally year one of my education and the whole putting role, and I'm like, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Bits in twice? This is great, so very early on he gets it. So he's a thinker. So he's always been an extraordinarily competent putter. But what's different about him than like a Brad Faxon is that like Brett's like, I'm gonna put well because I know how a putter needs to move, so I'm happy to try anything because I can make the putter move how it needs to move. So he was always tinkering and always trying. He was actually one of the first guys to be super competent with a broomstick, despite the fact that, again he was already a very competent putter. And so he emails us very early on, maybe twenty eighteen, because there was there. We had a weird little presence in Australia because Bill's dad is actually Australian, so we had some putters over there. Runny got a hold of one there and he emails us and kind of gives us some feedback, and he's like, you know, I get what you guys are trying to do, but the way that this thing sets up is fucked, And I'm like, well, what do you mean. He's like, it doesn't sold properly because if I put your press grip you know, I don't know if you've seen him enough. Like the crooked grip we got on the putters there, if I actually put that thing to neutral, the face opens up. And at this point, I mean, this is this is like literally year one of my education and the whole putting role, and I'm like, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Brett Rumford of Perth, Australia plays on the PGA Tour of Australasia. He won the nineteen ninety eight Australian Amateur and he won the nineteen ninety nine PGA Tour of Australasia's an Z Players Championship. As an amateur after turning pro in two thousand, he has won six European Tour events. He played twenty six events on the PGA Tour in two thousand and eight, where he made ten cuts and had one top ten at the Bob Hope Chrysler Classic. His best finish in a major was a T sixteen at the two thousand and six Open Championship at Royal Liverpool, which was won by Tiger Woods. When's the first time you remember seeing or hearing about or holding it or like, what when did directed force or Lab golf show up on your radar.

Brett Rumford of Perth, Australia plays on the PGA Tour of Australasia. He won the nineteen ninety eight Australian Amateur and he won the nineteen ninety nine PGA Tour of Australasia's an Z Players Championship. As an amateur after turning pro in two thousand, he has won six European Tour events. He played twenty six events on the PGA Tour in two thousand and eight, where he made ten cuts and had one top ten at the Bob Hope Chrysler Classic. His best finish in a major was a T sixteen at the two thousand and six Open Championship at Royal Liverpool, which was won by Tiger Woods. When's the first time you remember seeing or hearing about or holding it or like, what when did directed force or Lab golf show up on your radar.

I think I might have been. I was in Europe, just traveling around, but there was a facility where we played in Denmark, which was amazing. But there's a gentleman there that actually had a proper putting lab started the art, had all the equipment. So that was the first time actually had seen the lab potters. So they which was the original Direct Force, which is a real big head, a little bit obscure, looking really random, but had all the tech in it, crazy stable at the full, you know, all the tech. So that was the first time I'd seen it. And then from that meeting, the guy offered me actually to take a few homes, so I took a few home with varying lengths and lives. But this is where I sort of saw the discrepancy with the product in which they fixed subsequently, and they're doing a great job with it. The thing with it is that with the direct Force when they first came out, because of that varyingly angle and length, that would change the fixed point of where the radius would sit at the end of the golf club. So what I found was the wall the putter would still have the same effect so it could sit more or less open or closed. And I kind of just gave this feedback to one of the guys at the facility, which I think got back to LAB and they kind of blew up and said, you know, the product you know was great and everything else, and it was just my feedback. Anyways, that was my first introduction to LAB.

I think I might have been. I was in Europe, just traveling around, but there was a facility where we played in Denmark, which was amazing. But there's a gentleman there that actually had a proper putting lab started the art, had all the equipment. So that was the first time actually had seen the lab potters. So they which was the original Direct Force, which is a real big head, a little bit obscure, looking really random, but had all the tech in it, crazy stable at the full, you know, all the tech. So that was the first time I'd seen it. And then from that meeting, the guy offered me actually to take a few homes, so I took a few home with varying lengths and lives. But this is where I sort of saw the discrepancy with the product in which they fixed subsequently, and they're doing a great job with it. The thing with it is that with the direct Force when they first came out, because of that varyingly angle and length, that would change the fixed point of where the radius would sit at the end of the golf club. So what I found was the wall the putter would still have the same effect so it could sit more or less open or closed. And I kind of just gave this feedback to one of the guys at the facility, which I think got back to LAB and they kind of blew up and said, you know, the product you know was great and everything else, and it was just my feedback. Anyways, that was my first introduction to LAB.

We go back and forth, and like I knew it was a tour pro, but he was being a super pain in the ass and just like relentlessly telling us how stupid we are. The interaction actually ended in him telling me to fuck off.

We go back and forth, and like I knew it was a tour pro, but he was being a super pain in the ass and just like relentlessly telling us how stupid we are. The interaction actually ended in him telling me to fuck off.

I don't know if you said it to them or they Sam said it to you or whatever. It was like a fuck off, you know. It was like, you know, your feedback kind of devastated. It was kind of devastating to him because he was like, wait a minute, you know this guy's he's undermining our whole this is our whole company. Yeah, of a sudden, you know you're coming in and it was like that's what he said. Now was that him to you or you to him? What was there?

I don't know if you said it to them or they Sam said it to you or whatever. It was like a fuck off, you know. It was like, you know, your feedback kind of devastated. It was kind of devastating to him because he was like, wait a minute, you know this guy's he's undermining our whole this is our whole company. Yeah, of a sudden, you know you're coming in and it was like that's what he said. Now was that him to you or you to him? What was there?

Yeah? No, no, no, I was very look, hey, I'm I'm one for It's really weird because I'm so far as practice concerned. I don't know why, but I can see things within within product that might be you know, maybe not thought of or misaligned or otherwise anyway. For some reason, I just think of these things, and when I put it down, I'm very much probably was right in my I guess forte, you know, because with my mirror putting and everything else, I really got to make sure my nineties are all all good and well. But I just noticed some was wrong with this butter. I took some photos and I sent it back to the gentleman at this at this facility, and then obviously he made the email and made contact with Sam, which then subsequently told me to fuck off and went like nuts nuts nuts. So two days later I got the feedback and I went, okay, no, what I said, Look, it's only my feedback, but look, you know what, yeah, if there's and I'm look, I'm not saying with I'm not saying that I'm smart. I'm just saying, hey, look this is what I see, and yeah, there's there's people in that facility that are like crazy smart, crazy smart. Yeah, so but it is what it is. So but that I don't have the I don't have the smarts to work out how to fix it. That was their job, and it's just great that that they've got on board with it.

Yeah? No, no, no, I was very look, hey, I'm I'm one for It's really weird because I'm so far as practice concerned. I don't know why, but I can see things within within product that might be you know, maybe not thought of or misaligned or otherwise anyway. For some reason, I just think of these things, and when I put it down, I'm very much probably was right in my I guess forte, you know, because with my mirror putting and everything else, I really got to make sure my nineties are all all good and well. But I just noticed some was wrong with this butter. I took some photos and I sent it back to the gentleman at this at this facility, and then obviously he made the email and made contact with Sam, which then subsequently told me to fuck off and went like nuts nuts nuts. So two days later I got the feedback and I went, okay, no, what I said, Look, it's only my feedback, but look, you know what, yeah, if there's and I'm look, I'm not saying with I'm not saying that I'm smart. I'm just saying, hey, look this is what I see, and yeah, there's there's people in that facility that are like crazy smart, crazy smart. Yeah, so but it is what it is. So but that I don't have the I don't have the smarts to work out how to fix it. That was their job, and it's just great that that they've got on board with it.

Worse noting and as it relates to dates, my original interview with Han was in August of twenty twenty three.

Worse noting and as it relates to dates, my original interview with Han was in August of twenty twenty three.

About.

About.

Six about six months ago. He reaches out again and he's like, I've been using your mes one for you know, however long things Absolutely brilliant. You fix the issue that I was talking about, which I still kind of don't understand. I mean I do I actually that's a lie. When he reached out about the MEZ, I still didn't understand it. I've since gotten some FaceTime with him and I totally get it now and he's spot on correct. But what was so cool about Brett was is that he went through that whole thing that I did. He went through that that that hangover period, and he stuck with it because he knew there was something there. And so he was here in June, came to the factory in June, spent a couple of days here blowing all of our minds and listening to Brett, you know, who's a very well respected short game nerd. You know, I mean people who know about putting. No Brett Rumfort and he uh, he's telling me in his words, my whole stick, he's telling you know, his the way that he puts it, you know, like my tagline is like, you know you've in the past you have to keep a face square, and with us, all you have to do is let a face stay square. And his whole thing is you have to let go of control to gain control. That's how how he describes, you know, what the what the feeling is.

Six about six months ago. He reaches out again and he's like, I've been using your mes one for you know, however long things Absolutely brilliant. You fix the issue that I was talking about, which I still kind of don't understand. I mean I do I actually that's a lie. When he reached out about the MEZ, I still didn't understand it. I've since gotten some FaceTime with him and I totally get it now and he's spot on correct. But what was so cool about Brett was is that he went through that whole thing that I did. He went through that that that hangover period, and he stuck with it because he knew there was something there. And so he was here in June, came to the factory in June, spent a couple of days here blowing all of our minds and listening to Brett, you know, who's a very well respected short game nerd. You know, I mean people who know about putting. No Brett Rumfort and he uh, he's telling me in his words, my whole stick, he's telling you know, his the way that he puts it, you know, like my tagline is like, you know you've in the past you have to keep a face square, and with us, all you have to do is let a face stay square. And his whole thing is you have to let go of control to gain control. That's how how he describes, you know, what the what the feeling is.

I think for me, I think the real light bulb moment was like I've always thought the the technology in the putter was was fantastic, Like I'm all on board with it, and it truly is in terms of all the stuff that's out there. It is definitely, you know, cutting edge, and it is probably the only technology in terms of what it is that actually is is different to the rest. You know, it's it's literally zero talk in every sense of the word. So when I was playing not Yourself, I've been playing sort of like very sparsely these days, doing a lot of coaching as well. But we had a local tournament here thirty six goals but still winnings, winning isn't it. You know, you're still going to go through the same process as you're still you know, you're still competing at a high level with the local professionals here. But I got into a playoff and hold a great put on seventeen and the rest. But obviously with that heightened sense of adrenaline emotion, everything else that starts to come out. Your senses get really really alive. You know, they just buzz, They're just everything that should feel, cease, smell, tusks, just everything is just is alive. Right, it's alert. You're very aware of your surroundings internally externally. But I had a thirty footer down the hill, double breaker, crazy. It was a new green Graham Marsh design. So for those that know Graham Marsh is eight greens are always a little bit indifferent. They're pretty funky tears ridges all over the place, but that's his thing. So I had a really tricky part. But all you can do in these situations is just try and hit the best possible part you can. That's all you're hoping for, and then you just basically let you know what the golf and gods do the rest. But when I stood over this thing. When I stood over the part and I pulled the truth. As soon as I took it away, there was just nothing within my hands. It was just nothing. It was empty. And then when I made the transition, it was still empty and there was just there was no tension, there was no there was no fight, there was no grab, there was nothing. It kind of the part of just it just fell. And as soon as I struck the part, all I can remember was when I hit it, I just went, my god, that was the best part I think I've ever hit. But I think it was more the sense of the feeling, my heightened sense of emotion that really enacted me to this stroking this put But it was just amazing in that situation where normally you might feel a little bit of the tension or a little bit of the grab or a little bit of that after the hit, you feel like that little bit of the acceleration or that I wouldn't use the word apprehension, but it's just it is what it is. It's just nerves and the rest. But this thing just flowed and it just went it off of my hands and I just looked up and I just went, Wow, that's got to be the purest part I think I've ever hit subsequently subsequently it went in. But irrespective of that, I just find, I mean that that feeling and memory will last with me for a long while, because I'd say to Sam, if I had have had this technology, maybe when I first turned pro, who knows how many order one, maybe with the broomstick, a part of very well with the broomstick. But yeah, look, it's just it's quite amazing technology. It's pretty cool and you just got to experience it, but you sort of you have to give it some time too, because so many people don't like the feeling of no control, that don't like the feeling of like giving up that feeling of where the face is or the awareness of it. And it's just I love the internal feeling where everything this switches off through here rather than trying to feel this tension, I just love the flow of it. And you get into the flow after a while, but it takes time, and.

I think for me, I think the real light bulb moment was like I've always thought the the technology in the putter was was fantastic, Like I'm all on board with it, and it truly is in terms of all the stuff that's out there. It is definitely, you know, cutting edge, and it is probably the only technology in terms of what it is that actually is is different to the rest. You know, it's it's literally zero talk in every sense of the word. So when I was playing not Yourself, I've been playing sort of like very sparsely these days, doing a lot of coaching as well. But we had a local tournament here thirty six goals but still winnings, winning isn't it. You know, you're still going to go through the same process as you're still you know, you're still competing at a high level with the local professionals here. But I got into a playoff and hold a great put on seventeen and the rest. But obviously with that heightened sense of adrenaline emotion, everything else that starts to come out. Your senses get really really alive. You know, they just buzz, They're just everything that should feel, cease, smell, tusks, just everything is just is alive. Right, it's alert. You're very aware of your surroundings internally externally. But I had a thirty footer down the hill, double breaker, crazy. It was a new green Graham Marsh design. So for those that know Graham Marsh is eight greens are always a little bit indifferent. They're pretty funky tears ridges all over the place, but that's his thing. So I had a really tricky part. But all you can do in these situations is just try and hit the best possible part you can. That's all you're hoping for, and then you just basically let you know what the golf and gods do the rest. But when I stood over this thing. When I stood over the part and I pulled the truth. As soon as I took it away, there was just nothing within my hands. It was just nothing. It was empty. And then when I made the transition, it was still empty and there was just there was no tension, there was no there was no fight, there was no grab, there was nothing. It kind of the part of just it just fell. And as soon as I struck the part, all I can remember was when I hit it, I just went, my god, that was the best part I think I've ever hit. But I think it was more the sense of the feeling, my heightened sense of emotion that really enacted me to this stroking this put But it was just amazing in that situation where normally you might feel a little bit of the tension or a little bit of the grab or a little bit of that after the hit, you feel like that little bit of the acceleration or that I wouldn't use the word apprehension, but it's just it is what it is. It's just nerves and the rest. But this thing just flowed and it just went it off of my hands and I just looked up and I just went, Wow, that's got to be the purest part I think I've ever hit subsequently subsequently it went in. But irrespective of that, I just find, I mean that that feeling and memory will last with me for a long while, because I'd say to Sam, if I had have had this technology, maybe when I first turned pro, who knows how many order one, maybe with the broomstick, a part of very well with the broomstick. But yeah, look, it's just it's quite amazing technology. It's pretty cool and you just got to experience it, but you sort of you have to give it some time too, because so many people don't like the feeling of no control, that don't like the feeling of like giving up that feeling of where the face is or the awareness of it. And it's just I love the internal feeling where everything this switches off through here rather than trying to feel this tension, I just love the flow of it. And you get into the flow after a while, but it takes time, and.

A lot of the high level pros the feedback we get is they describe this very kind of vague feeling, you know, in along kind of similar to what we talked about before about it, you know, just kind of how the potter head disappears. That's a good thing. That's when you know you're doing it right. When it kind of feels vague and free, that's when you know the putter's face is squared up to the plane that you're putting it on. It's when you start feeling resistance. That's when you know you're off.

A lot of the high level pros the feedback we get is they describe this very kind of vague feeling, you know, in along kind of similar to what we talked about before about it, you know, just kind of how the potter head disappears. That's a good thing. That's when you know you're doing it right. When it kind of feels vague and free, that's when you know the putter's face is squared up to the plane that you're putting it on. It's when you start feeling resistance. That's when you know you're off.

I find if you want more or less face rotation, I would go more lying. So if you go sixty eight to seventy two degree lying l and you're swinging face to path, your appearance would be your face is opening more or less, but it's still face to path. So but if you want the visual of having more or less face rotation, go flatter with your langel If you want less, go more upright. So that's why I went to a broomstick for all those years from four right the way through to when it was banned. It was cheating. It wasn't It wasn't cheating, but technically speaking, it was like cheating. So and I just found that was you know, I maxed out at eighty degrees pretty much, which was legal at the time, still is legal today. And Adam Scott still I mean, he's Scotty's sister genius. Anyway, he's a kid, is so switched on and he's basically now just swinging this sting with minimal face rotation relative to his path, so there's less to try and do, there's less to try and square up. So yeah, so you start going lower. That's a lot of face rotation unless you're doing it mechanically, and like Tiger probably would open it more and close it more with his risk mechanics, which probably not advisable. When you look at his putting stroke on sam put Lab, it's not efficient at all. It's not green at all, apart from the one aspect, which is consistency. Is consistency is off the charts, but every other paramet is a little bit ordinary. So maybe you wouldn't copy it in an ideal world, but there's always an exception to the rule. So yeah, So for me, that whole face rotation concept is a little bit I think misleading, And for me, it's it's all about with the lab product, it's all about For me, it's like giving up control to take control. And I think so many people, you know, whether it's a personality or otherwise, try to you know, control the face, control the stroke, and they get so caught up in the stroke and the plan and everything else, which is all good and world. You do your work, but and you know, the holy grail is having it perfectly arked and have your face to path and all the rest of it. But there's got to be a point where you just got to go play, and you just got to go You just got to get just give up all the controlling element. You just got to just let it go.

I find if you want more or less face rotation, I would go more lying. So if you go sixty eight to seventy two degree lying l and you're swinging face to path, your appearance would be your face is opening more or less, but it's still face to path. So but if you want the visual of having more or less face rotation, go flatter with your langel If you want less, go more upright. So that's why I went to a broomstick for all those years from four right the way through to when it was banned. It was cheating. It wasn't It wasn't cheating, but technically speaking, it was like cheating. So and I just found that was you know, I maxed out at eighty degrees pretty much, which was legal at the time, still is legal today. And Adam Scott still I mean, he's Scotty's sister genius. Anyway, he's a kid, is so switched on and he's basically now just swinging this sting with minimal face rotation relative to his path, so there's less to try and do, there's less to try and square up. So yeah, so you start going lower. That's a lot of face rotation unless you're doing it mechanically, and like Tiger probably would open it more and close it more with his risk mechanics, which probably not advisable. When you look at his putting stroke on sam put Lab, it's not efficient at all. It's not green at all, apart from the one aspect, which is consistency. Is consistency is off the charts, but every other paramet is a little bit ordinary. So maybe you wouldn't copy it in an ideal world, but there's always an exception to the rule. So yeah, So for me, that whole face rotation concept is a little bit I think misleading, And for me, it's it's all about with the lab product, it's all about For me, it's like giving up control to take control. And I think so many people, you know, whether it's a personality or otherwise, try to you know, control the face, control the stroke, and they get so caught up in the stroke and the plan and everything else, which is all good and world. You do your work, but and you know, the holy grail is having it perfectly arked and have your face to path and all the rest of it. But there's got to be a point where you just got to go play, and you just got to go You just got to get just give up all the controlling element. You just got to just let it go.

The Revealer itself. Have you ever tinkered with the Revealer? Have been on the Revealer?

The Revealer itself. Have you ever tinkered with the Revealer? Have been on the Revealer?

Yeah?

Yeah?

The Revealer is amazing. Huh. The thing, the crazy thing with with the Revealer is that other product which has similar tech with the you know you call it toe up or face target balanced, or however you want to refer to the lab face remaining vertical. You put in the Revealer, and they don't test well at all the same as any other potter. They get really loose and out of balance. So love is the only potter. Is What I mean is that it's it's like it's cutting edge. It's there's nothing else like it on the planet. That Revealer is is really you know, when you when you speak to people about it about its technology and what it does and how it how it will feel. But then we actually put it in it and start doing figure eights, that's crazy. Actually hitting puts with it, that's crazy. So yeah, it's a pretty cool apparatus. Yeah, and I think there needs to be more of that in pro shops as well. They need to send more of that that product out the revealer to give people a better understanding and the insight as to what the technology is all about.

The Revealer is amazing. Huh. The thing, the crazy thing with with the Revealer is that other product which has similar tech with the you know you call it toe up or face target balanced, or however you want to refer to the lab face remaining vertical. You put in the Revealer, and they don't test well at all the same as any other potter. They get really loose and out of balance. So love is the only potter. Is What I mean is that it's it's like it's cutting edge. It's there's nothing else like it on the planet. That Revealer is is really you know, when you when you speak to people about it about its technology and what it does and how it how it will feel. But then we actually put it in it and start doing figure eights, that's crazy. Actually hitting puts with it, that's crazy. So yeah, it's a pretty cool apparatus. Yeah, and I think there needs to be more of that in pro shops as well. They need to send more of that that product out the revealer to give people a better understanding and the insight as to what the technology is all about.

Do you think it's fair to say that Bill Pressey will go down in golf history someday as as revolutionary a genius.

Do you think it's fair to say that Bill Pressey will go down in golf history someday as as revolutionary a genius.

I think yeah, I think he should already be at that point anyway, just for coming up with the concept. You know, it's an amazing concept, which and again it's been refined, but not even refined. It's the same technology. But I think anyone like you never stopped learning as well at the same time, So the genius that is Bill Pressy and the concept in which he's come up with it's been refined. But I think, you know, in saying that, maybe it's taken someone like Sam to sort of, hey, like you know what, let's not this out. It takes other other perspectives sometimes to make you know, the goal of the dream work. And I think it's just like anything in time. You know, there's you know, with successful people whatever it may be, and times that have altered the course of history as being in the right place at the right time. So you know, it just needed someone like Sam with his you know, broadened arise and a bit more holistic, a bit more you know, inclusive, to maybe just change Bill Presley's thinking. Who knows, with the conversations that have gone by, and it's always a case of, you know, even with Scottie Camera with with Tiger like, you can't you can't replicate the history of getting a partter in one man's hand in setting the record books, you know. Alt. I mean, that's just the right place at the right time. But still he had the knowledge, he had the expertise, he had the product, and it's just the case of just you know what, you've got to be ready for it as well. So I guess the world just isn't quite ready, but they're becoming, they're becoming aware of it. And I think, and I said to stand a long long time ago where his product was, Yeah, it was right on that edge, wasn't it. So it's just it was close, but just wasn't quite cracking it. And I said, mate, you've got to be ready when this thing goes. You've got to be ready. You've got to have some product lined up, and you better be ready because when this thing goes and the technology gets you know, it gets out there and people start to get their head around it, you've got to be ready to be to capitalize on it. And that's the thing is that how many units do you you know, do you trust in it? You got the trust there, you know, you know that it's a sound product. You know it's amazing. You know, you just got to you just got to win the people over. But and as I said, you know, getting it in the hands of the greatest players in the world, that's the number one thing. That's the convincing part. And then when Lucas Glover, that's classic case in point, you know, wins back to back that possibly the most critical time of the year. So just so and off things go so and more and more people will Zelatorus is playing great. He's just had twenty two puts today in the third round of the Genesis Invitational at Riviera, which is arguably possibly some of the toughest screens to put on. With the poet their pure but tricky breaking, I think you'll hold over well. The footage of parts was crazy, and really, at the end of the day, winning all comes down to putting, basically at the end of the day. So I'm just waiting for Scotti Scheffler to get one in his hands and the world, the world will be a better place for him.

I think yeah, I think he should already be at that point anyway, just for coming up with the concept. You know, it's an amazing concept, which and again it's been refined, but not even refined. It's the same technology. But I think anyone like you never stopped learning as well at the same time, So the genius that is Bill Pressy and the concept in which he's come up with it's been refined. But I think, you know, in saying that, maybe it's taken someone like Sam to sort of, hey, like you know what, let's not this out. It takes other other perspectives sometimes to make you know, the goal of the dream work. And I think it's just like anything in time. You know, there's you know, with successful people whatever it may be, and times that have altered the course of history as being in the right place at the right time. So you know, it just needed someone like Sam with his you know, broadened arise and a bit more holistic, a bit more you know, inclusive, to maybe just change Bill Presley's thinking. Who knows, with the conversations that have gone by, and it's always a case of, you know, even with Scottie Camera with with Tiger like, you can't you can't replicate the history of getting a partter in one man's hand in setting the record books, you know. Alt. I mean, that's just the right place at the right time. But still he had the knowledge, he had the expertise, he had the product, and it's just the case of just you know what, you've got to be ready for it as well. So I guess the world just isn't quite ready, but they're becoming, they're becoming aware of it. And I think, and I said to stand a long long time ago where his product was, Yeah, it was right on that edge, wasn't it. So it's just it was close, but just wasn't quite cracking it. And I said, mate, you've got to be ready when this thing goes. You've got to be ready. You've got to have some product lined up, and you better be ready because when this thing goes and the technology gets you know, it gets out there and people start to get their head around it, you've got to be ready to be to capitalize on it. And that's the thing is that how many units do you you know, do you trust in it? You got the trust there, you know, you know that it's a sound product. You know it's amazing. You know, you just got to you just got to win the people over. But and as I said, you know, getting it in the hands of the greatest players in the world, that's the number one thing. That's the convincing part. And then when Lucas Glover, that's classic case in point, you know, wins back to back that possibly the most critical time of the year. So just so and off things go so and more and more people will Zelatorus is playing great. He's just had twenty two puts today in the third round of the Genesis Invitational at Riviera, which is arguably possibly some of the toughest screens to put on. With the poet their pure but tricky breaking, I think you'll hold over well. The footage of parts was crazy, and really, at the end of the day, winning all comes down to putting, basically at the end of the day. So I'm just waiting for Scotti Scheffler to get one in his hands and the world, the world will be a better place for him.

On that note, I asked Rumford to talk more about the concept of letting go of control to gain control. You can say that about a golf swing. You can say that about life in general, right, but I mean it certainly as it relates to this technology.

On that note, I asked Rumford to talk more about the concept of letting go of control to gain control. You can say that about a golf swing. You can say that about life in general, right, but I mean it certainly as it relates to this technology.

Yes, that is the essence of it.

Yes, that is the essence of it.

Look and not is zero understanding of the internals in a golf swing and a chip shot. So when I chip people of trans you know they're almost transfixed by mesmerized by my low so to speak. But mastery comes down to mastering the movement and then everything switches off, so everything deactivates. So when you walk, you've mastered the art of walking. Yes, So if I were to ask you what you activate in your legs when you walk, truthfully, just walk, anyone, just get it. Out of your couch, whoever's listening to this right now, and just walk and walk a little bit faster when I say that, and walk a little bit faster again, and tell me what's being activated. You couldn't tell me. You wouldn't know. So unless you're actually standing there and actually physically activating your quads, activating your hip flexes. That's where most people live. When they chip, they literally they try and create a force. They're trying to control the golf club, but which is partly to do with the balance of the golf club. So if you're in balance with chip in and I'd rather find the balance of the golf club not so much. Plain, we won't go down that rabbit hole. So but for me, when I'm swinging, I couldn't tell you what I activate. I can tell you where the golf club's traveling. I could tell you what I'm doing, my orientation of lower body and everything else the parts that I'm moving, But I couldn't tell you, like walking, what I'm actually physically activating. I wouldn't know. But that's that mastery of movement when you're putting, that's what I feel that lab gives you. Anyway, it just gives you that freedom of understanding what flows all about, what that feeling of like giving up control to take control. You don't control your legs when you walk, You just walk, so and that's kind of like it's a stupid analogy, but it's it's the only one I can give you. And what's crazy about it in this world is that everyone's signs with a putto contract. I just that's the one thing when you talk about controlling of all things, controlling the one club in your bag that should be a free agent to do what you want to the people out there listening and the juniors coming through, don't so with a putter. Just use the best product out there. Sign with third end clubs because of the putter. As I say to my kids and my juniors coming through, is that if you want to buy that one hundred million dollar yacht, three hundred million dollar yacht, if you want to go give millions to charity, if you want houses all over the world's holiday destinations, if you want to change the world in some way, if you want to run for president one day eventually with your influence in the game of golf. And that's whole a part because Putting is the key to all your heart's desires. That's the only club that's going to basically give you all the success, all the records, all the majors, everything else. One man did this for well, two men have done it, actually, Nicholas and Tiger. You know, people will say, if your life depends on it, who are the two guys or one guy that's going to be, you know, holding that part if your life depends on it, and it's going to be Jack or Tiger. The two people that basically have re written the record books over two generations are the two people that basically just whole puts for fun. So my advice would be to those up and comers out there, or even for any of these guys that are out there now. Adam Scott he tore up his titles contract basically for other reasons, I'm sure probably, but you know what, it's freed him up with the one with the one thing, with the one part of the game that basically has always struggled with, you know, putting, And you look at his Adam Scott's putting stats unbelievable. I think he led maybe a couple of categories. And I've always said you look at any stat you get inside the top thirty of the world's best players on any tour. If you're inside that top thirty on any stat then you're elite. Top thirty is elite. So cracking twenty seventh you see twenty seventh on a stat or twenty fourth, not even number one, very very fine line between thirtieth and first, but you get thirtieth, top thirtieth on any start, you're doing something very very well. But so Scotty and all these guys you know that have that part of that's freed up for them, free up your contract, to free up your your putting. You just might fulfill all your heart's desires. But I'm not saying it's going to go like that. But hey, yeah, I just find it crazy how people are locked in with the parts and you know the complaint of the car part, but they're stuck in this this contract I just don't like the part of. But and you go, well, that's what winning is all about. If you want to be auted for winning, use something that's going to win, right, Or if you just want to make top thirty make a living, then yeah, sign a contract and just you know, just hate yourself for the rest of your life. It's ridiculous. It's just the most stupid thing I think I could you could. In my experience, it's most, yes, most for anything. And that's the blessing with with Titleist was the fact that I could use whatever I wanted throughout my career. So I've got thirteen clubs. The drive is definitely a have to use it d either, that's a non negotiable there in the contract. But I think Titleist, Yeah, trust in the product. You want to use the product, you can, but if not, use something else. So that's my two cents.

Look and not is zero understanding of the internals in a golf swing and a chip shot. So when I chip people of trans you know they're almost transfixed by mesmerized by my low so to speak. But mastery comes down to mastering the movement and then everything switches off, so everything deactivates. So when you walk, you've mastered the art of walking. Yes, So if I were to ask you what you activate in your legs when you walk, truthfully, just walk, anyone, just get it. Out of your couch, whoever's listening to this right now, and just walk and walk a little bit faster when I say that, and walk a little bit faster again, and tell me what's being activated. You couldn't tell me. You wouldn't know. So unless you're actually standing there and actually physically activating your quads, activating your hip flexes. That's where most people live. When they chip, they literally they try and create a force. They're trying to control the golf club, but which is partly to do with the balance of the golf club. So if you're in balance with chip in and I'd rather find the balance of the golf club not so much. Plain, we won't go down that rabbit hole. So but for me, when I'm swinging, I couldn't tell you what I activate. I can tell you where the golf club's traveling. I could tell you what I'm doing, my orientation of lower body and everything else the parts that I'm moving, But I couldn't tell you, like walking, what I'm actually physically activating. I wouldn't know. But that's that mastery of movement when you're putting, that's what I feel that lab gives you. Anyway, it just gives you that freedom of understanding what flows all about, what that feeling of like giving up control to take control. You don't control your legs when you walk, You just walk, so and that's kind of like it's a stupid analogy, but it's it's the only one I can give you. And what's crazy about it in this world is that everyone's signs with a putto contract. I just that's the one thing when you talk about controlling of all things, controlling the one club in your bag that should be a free agent to do what you want to the people out there listening and the juniors coming through, don't so with a putter. Just use the best product out there. Sign with third end clubs because of the putter. As I say to my kids and my juniors coming through, is that if you want to buy that one hundred million dollar yacht, three hundred million dollar yacht, if you want to go give millions to charity, if you want houses all over the world's holiday destinations, if you want to change the world in some way, if you want to run for president one day eventually with your influence in the game of golf. And that's whole a part because Putting is the key to all your heart's desires. That's the only club that's going to basically give you all the success, all the records, all the majors, everything else. One man did this for well, two men have done it, actually, Nicholas and Tiger. You know, people will say, if your life depends on it, who are the two guys or one guy that's going to be, you know, holding that part if your life depends on it, and it's going to be Jack or Tiger. The two people that basically have re written the record books over two generations are the two people that basically just whole puts for fun. So my advice would be to those up and comers out there, or even for any of these guys that are out there now. Adam Scott he tore up his titles contract basically for other reasons, I'm sure probably, but you know what, it's freed him up with the one with the one thing, with the one part of the game that basically has always struggled with, you know, putting, And you look at his Adam Scott's putting stats unbelievable. I think he led maybe a couple of categories. And I've always said you look at any stat you get inside the top thirty of the world's best players on any tour. If you're inside that top thirty on any stat then you're elite. Top thirty is elite. So cracking twenty seventh you see twenty seventh on a stat or twenty fourth, not even number one, very very fine line between thirtieth and first, but you get thirtieth, top thirtieth on any start, you're doing something very very well. But so Scotty and all these guys you know that have that part of that's freed up for them, free up your contract, to free up your your putting. You just might fulfill all your heart's desires. But I'm not saying it's going to go like that. But hey, yeah, I just find it crazy how people are locked in with the parts and you know the complaint of the car part, but they're stuck in this this contract I just don't like the part of. But and you go, well, that's what winning is all about. If you want to be auted for winning, use something that's going to win, right, Or if you just want to make top thirty make a living, then yeah, sign a contract and just you know, just hate yourself for the rest of your life. It's ridiculous. It's just the most stupid thing I think I could you could. In my experience, it's most, yes, most for anything. And that's the blessing with with Titleist was the fact that I could use whatever I wanted throughout my career. So I've got thirteen clubs. The drive is definitely a have to use it d either, that's a non negotiable there in the contract. But I think Titleist, Yeah, trust in the product. You want to use the product, you can, but if not, use something else. So that's my two cents.

Anyway, I went back through Adam Scott's putting stats in twenty seventeen twenty eighteen, before he started using lab putters, he was one hundred and sixty fifth in strokes gained putting and one hundred and seventy fifth in putting average. In twenty eighteen twenty nineteen, which is when he made the switch, he jumped to thirty first in strokes gain putting and was forty third in putting average in twenty nineteen twenty twenty. He was forty ninth and forty fourth, respectively. In twenty twenty twenty twenty one, he was eighteenth and fortieth in twenty twenty one. In twenty twenty two, he was forty first and thirty fourth. In twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three he was nineteenth and ninth. And this year and it's early, he's fiftieth and thirty third. He's on his sixth street year of using a lab putter and the sixth consecutive year of never being outside the top fifty and two critical putting stats. Have you ever had a conversation with Adam or Lucas about labs, specifically with Scotty.

Anyway, I went back through Adam Scott's putting stats in twenty seventeen twenty eighteen, before he started using lab putters, he was one hundred and sixty fifth in strokes gained putting and one hundred and seventy fifth in putting average. In twenty eighteen twenty nineteen, which is when he made the switch, he jumped to thirty first in strokes gain putting and was forty third in putting average in twenty nineteen twenty twenty. He was forty ninth and forty fourth, respectively. In twenty twenty twenty twenty one, he was eighteenth and fortieth in twenty twenty one. In twenty twenty two, he was forty first and thirty fourth. In twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three he was nineteenth and ninth. And this year and it's early, he's fiftieth and thirty third. He's on his sixth street year of using a lab putter and the sixth consecutive year of never being outside the top fifty and two critical putting stats. Have you ever had a conversation with Adam or Lucas about labs, specifically with Scotty.

Yes, yeah, Look, Scotty and I we're very much on the same page. So yeah, that conversation is just like speaking to me in a mirror, right from where it goes. So I used the broomstick a long long time ago and then he switched to the broomstick. You know, I talked about how I used it and stuff, and he's like, you know, the same thing. So Scott is very astute. So yeah, he thinks about the game, Scotty, you know as much as you don't. You know, you think he's very very technically sound, which he is probably doesn't think too much about the golf swing, but he does about other areas of the game. So I spent some time with it with the PGA. We've got on the chip and green. I'm filling his brains with all these you know, my thoughts and feels. And we spent about two hours there is back in maybe eighteen twenty eighteen. I'd cool them and we go to the driving range and we're hitting a few balls next to each other. We're just talking about, you know, stuff as mates do. And I just asked him about he's ripping these drives down. It like just just flat plane, just frozen rowe one half of the other, like twenty thirty in a row. And I've always like struggled with driving, you know, so he's struggled with chipping a little bit. But I'm getting very technical and everything else with the short game and telling how, you know, how I changed things to manipulate flights and stuff. And then you know, what do you do with the driver Scotty, Well, you know, Rabbie is what I thought. You know what, here we go. I'm going to get the I'm going to get the holy Grail of secrets here and I'm on it right So Scotty starts talking about, well, what I do. I mean, I get my nineties, so I get my grip right, and then I just really ensure that nine degrees to my target. You know, I'm all squared off because he is it so straight. It's very very important if you get it very straight and very repetitive something. And yeah, that makes sense, and he goes the first poot. You know, I'm just trying to feel as out the face just like remains fairly square to the golf ball, like it's just like looking at it. And then after that, I don't know. I can't tell you what I do, and I just gon't. You're gonna be kidding me. If you've got to give me more than that, Scotty, give me something, It's like, nah, just get my nineties, keep the face square. This is all I know is that, you know, from this point here, like I'm very very very aware of this point. Beyond that, all I know is that I've just got the most videoed and photographed golf swing probably in the game. But what I do you're from me? I was devastated. I was like, oh no, that's not going to work for me. So oh man, in terms of putting though, he's very very that's kind of like where it flips, you know's goal swing. He's got that, you know, locked away, and then when he gets degree, you know, he's I've always found that he's he's used part is too heavy, so with the lab and particularly the long one as well. You know, you get on greens like Augusta and you get a part of that's really really heavy. But he kind of like liked that. But that's why Scotty has had that really long short stroke kind of thing at the masses where it's like like reversing a train and then trying to put it forward. It's like, oh shit, it takes some time, right, So you kind of like want to have a bit more of that, you know that that faster beats for a minute, should I say, but maintain the same ratio. So, but the other thing I've ever said to Scotty was this, man, you need to lighten up this head, just line up the whole thing, because it's the broomsticks all good and well, but still you just want to try and create a bit more more flow with a bit more speed and have that dynamic of stroke sort of match backstroke to follow through. But that's the only thing I've ever said to Scotty in terms of parting and the rest is you don't say too much to Scotty really, so he's a yeah, he's a world clock.

Yes, yeah, Look, Scotty and I we're very much on the same page. So yeah, that conversation is just like speaking to me in a mirror, right from where it goes. So I used the broomstick a long long time ago and then he switched to the broomstick. You know, I talked about how I used it and stuff, and he's like, you know, the same thing. So Scott is very astute. So yeah, he thinks about the game, Scotty, you know as much as you don't. You know, you think he's very very technically sound, which he is probably doesn't think too much about the golf swing, but he does about other areas of the game. So I spent some time with it with the PGA. We've got on the chip and green. I'm filling his brains with all these you know, my thoughts and feels. And we spent about two hours there is back in maybe eighteen twenty eighteen. I'd cool them and we go to the driving range and we're hitting a few balls next to each other. We're just talking about, you know, stuff as mates do. And I just asked him about he's ripping these drives down. It like just just flat plane, just frozen rowe one half of the other, like twenty thirty in a row. And I've always like struggled with driving, you know, so he's struggled with chipping a little bit. But I'm getting very technical and everything else with the short game and telling how, you know, how I changed things to manipulate flights and stuff. And then you know, what do you do with the driver Scotty, Well, you know, Rabbie is what I thought. You know what, here we go. I'm going to get the I'm going to get the holy Grail of secrets here and I'm on it right So Scotty starts talking about, well, what I do. I mean, I get my nineties, so I get my grip right, and then I just really ensure that nine degrees to my target. You know, I'm all squared off because he is it so straight. It's very very important if you get it very straight and very repetitive something. And yeah, that makes sense, and he goes the first poot. You know, I'm just trying to feel as out the face just like remains fairly square to the golf ball, like it's just like looking at it. And then after that, I don't know. I can't tell you what I do, and I just gon't. You're gonna be kidding me. If you've got to give me more than that, Scotty, give me something, It's like, nah, just get my nineties, keep the face square. This is all I know is that, you know, from this point here, like I'm very very very aware of this point. Beyond that, all I know is that I've just got the most videoed and photographed golf swing probably in the game. But what I do you're from me? I was devastated. I was like, oh no, that's not going to work for me. So oh man, in terms of putting though, he's very very that's kind of like where it flips, you know's goal swing. He's got that, you know, locked away, and then when he gets degree, you know, he's I've always found that he's he's used part is too heavy, so with the lab and particularly the long one as well. You know, you get on greens like Augusta and you get a part of that's really really heavy. But he kind of like liked that. But that's why Scotty has had that really long short stroke kind of thing at the masses where it's like like reversing a train and then trying to put it forward. It's like, oh shit, it takes some time, right, So you kind of like want to have a bit more of that, you know that that faster beats for a minute, should I say, but maintain the same ratio. So, but the other thing I've ever said to Scotty was this, man, you need to lighten up this head, just line up the whole thing, because it's the broomsticks all good and well, but still you just want to try and create a bit more more flow with a bit more speed and have that dynamic of stroke sort of match backstroke to follow through. But that's the only thing I've ever said to Scotty in terms of parting and the rest is you don't say too much to Scotty really, so he's a yeah, he's a world clock.

Back to Adam Scott, who if You're not caught up, was prominent part four of this series. Brett Rumford, who I'm sure sure you know he he pushed back on Sam and the technology originally sort of tried it and said, you know that he had some issues with this going back, you know, early days, and then eventually came back as they continued to tweak what they were doing. He came back in and said, you know what, and now I get it. I'm I'm all in. I've I've bought it, almost like independently, was having his own kind of relationship with the putter of the technology, the feel and he said something to them, which is I finally get it. You've got to let go of control to gain control. Does that ring true to you? Is that something that makes sense to you?

Back to Adam Scott, who if You're not caught up, was prominent part four of this series. Brett Rumford, who I'm sure sure you know he he pushed back on Sam and the technology originally sort of tried it and said, you know that he had some issues with this going back, you know, early days, and then eventually came back as they continued to tweak what they were doing. He came back in and said, you know what, and now I get it. I'm I'm all in. I've I've bought it, almost like independently, was having his own kind of relationship with the putter of the technology, the feel and he said something to them, which is I finally get it. You've got to let go of control to gain control. Does that ring true to you? Is that something that makes sense to you?

Yeah?

Yeah?

I think absolutely it does. I think, you know, I try and do that with my entire game. But we're we're so professional in a senseue we think of everything all the time, we're trying to be so good at every little part of it, and when it comes to performing and shooting the lower score, you know, you want to have all the stuff under control that you've thought about and then forget it and just execute and just play and just let go. And that's what I'm trying to do generally. So I think I think that does ring true. I probably didn't have the internal fights that Rummy had in his head with the putter. I was just like, yeah, this swing's really good. Yeah, this is getting a consistent role. I don't need to find necessarily fault with it. How about I just use this thing and make more putts. And I was enjoying that end of it. And I've really enjoyed the relationship with Sam and his team and being able to give him feedback and then being receptive to that feedback, and in developing the MEZ and the mes Max and you know, getting to a place where I feel like I'm putting with as good a putter as I can cut with. That's that's been a fun process for me.

I think absolutely it does. I think, you know, I try and do that with my entire game. But we're we're so professional in a senseue we think of everything all the time, we're trying to be so good at every little part of it, and when it comes to performing and shooting the lower score, you know, you want to have all the stuff under control that you've thought about and then forget it and just execute and just play and just let go. And that's what I'm trying to do generally. So I think I think that does ring true. I probably didn't have the internal fights that Rummy had in his head with the putter. I was just like, yeah, this swing's really good. Yeah, this is getting a consistent role. I don't need to find necessarily fault with it. How about I just use this thing and make more putts. And I was enjoying that end of it. And I've really enjoyed the relationship with Sam and his team and being able to give him feedback and then being receptive to that feedback, and in developing the MEZ and the mes Max and you know, getting to a place where I feel like I'm putting with as good a putter as I can cut with. That's that's been a fun process for me.

I think he's very factual Scotty. I don't think he does anything, you know, on a whim or out of just you know, there is feel. I think, yeah, Scotty is very much a feel player, but I think at the same time he's very factual as well, So he's very very calculative Scotty. As much as you think he's very feel orientated, he's still very shoot with his with his thoughts and his concepts of what he's doing. So but very definite as well. And when he and the game is all that confidence, isn't it. You know, So when you start to back up you know, science technology with the feel and then the understanding, it's a it's a very powerful concoction of you know, of positives that's going to give you that that unequivocal without a doubt. Just go play. You know everything's locked away. Just go play now and that's probably the best thing. You know, you get a bit in the world of what it's all about, and then just go play. The idea of golf is just go play. Don't have to worry about all the all that stuff. You know, and does become feel, it becomes you know intuitive, just step up, give up control to take control and just let it go. You know, that's that's the world where you want to live. Get sold on the technology. Sure, that's you know, anyone can sell a putter, but at the end of the day, you have to you have to live with it, so and you've got to compete with that technology day and day out for your livelihood or otherwise or kicking your ass's mates. So yeah, kicking the butts of your mates and the rest of it. So and I think that's what wins people over eventually, is is that at the end of the day, that's it. The only other thing is maybe just the loft dynamics that I'm trying. I'm working hard with Samy on, but I just want.

I think he's very factual Scotty. I don't think he does anything, you know, on a whim or out of just you know, there is feel. I think, yeah, Scotty is very much a feel player, but I think at the same time he's very factual as well, So he's very very calculative Scotty. As much as you think he's very feel orientated, he's still very shoot with his with his thoughts and his concepts of what he's doing. So but very definite as well. And when he and the game is all that confidence, isn't it. You know, So when you start to back up you know, science technology with the feel and then the understanding, it's a it's a very powerful concoction of you know, of positives that's going to give you that that unequivocal without a doubt. Just go play. You know everything's locked away. Just go play now and that's probably the best thing. You know, you get a bit in the world of what it's all about, and then just go play. The idea of golf is just go play. Don't have to worry about all the all that stuff. You know, and does become feel, it becomes you know intuitive, just step up, give up control to take control and just let it go. You know, that's that's the world where you want to live. Get sold on the technology. Sure, that's you know, anyone can sell a putter, but at the end of the day, you have to you have to live with it, so and you've got to compete with that technology day and day out for your livelihood or otherwise or kicking your ass's mates. So yeah, kicking the butts of your mates and the rest of it. So and I think that's what wins people over eventually, is is that at the end of the day, that's it. The only other thing is maybe just the loft dynamics that I'm trying. I'm working hard with Samy on, but I just want.

To see maybe the options of lofts, maybe because the putter does sold so well, and maybe having two or three heads that with varying surfaces, you might be able to just manipulate the losts without you know, trying to throw your hands.

To see maybe the options of lofts, maybe because the putter does sold so well, and maybe having two or three heads that with varying surfaces, you might be able to just manipulate the losts without you know, trying to throw your hands.

Back and forth. But that's about it, and love the rest it's I think.

Back and forth. But that's about it, and love the rest it's I think.

Yeah, him coming here in June, We're hoping was the beginning of a very beautiful relationship between us, and he's able to communicate this stuff to people that you know, who trust him and everything, and it's a beautiful relationship.

Yeah, him coming here in June, We're hoping was the beginning of a very beautiful relationship between us, and he's able to communicate this stuff to people that you know, who trust him and everything, and it's a beautiful relationship.

Yeah, they said your visits to Oregon and your feedback and your your your your thoughts in perspective have been critical to UH to to where they are as a company. So they give you a lot of credit and uh and they you know, in the end, I think they've really appreciated the back and forth and you making the effort and the trips and yeah, so.

Yeah, they said your visits to Oregon and your feedback and your your your your thoughts in perspective have been critical to UH to to where they are as a company. So they give you a lot of credit and uh and they you know, in the end, I think they've really appreciated the back and forth and you making the effort and the trips and yeah, so.

I'm more I'm more thankful that that Sam reached out and made the contact, and not to say that he admitted the wrongings, but it was just cool that he that he reached out and you know, just yeah, it got to the bottom of it, and probably just more just try to clarify what his engineers already saw anyway, so they're they're already on it. They're already on the same page. So I certainly want want to take credit full credit for for what those guys are doing over there, because it's amazing what they're doing. The factor is incredible, it's growing every day. But they're prepared from the last time I was there. They've got some amazing technology. They've got some amazing machinery in there as well, which is doing his job. So just an awesome company, awesome family. At the end of the day when you get to that first green, it's just all about locking into holding a part and just the more things that you can eliminate in the thought process with putting them, the better, you know, simplify it to just hitting that the best puts you can. And a classic example was a story I told at the Cotta Slow Open where I've got a thirty footer. There's lots of stuff that can happen in between the impact of that golfer going in the hole, but at the end of the day, you go, you just got to give up on that and just put the best stroke you can on it. And that's what was really evident. It was just an amazing moment for me which I went, Okay, I get it. I understand what Sam's on about a bill and the technology, what it's all about. So it was just purely just emptied. It was amazing. It was quite don't want too used the word it was very spiritual.

I'm more I'm more thankful that that Sam reached out and made the contact, and not to say that he admitted the wrongings, but it was just cool that he that he reached out and you know, just yeah, it got to the bottom of it, and probably just more just try to clarify what his engineers already saw anyway, so they're they're already on it. They're already on the same page. So I certainly want want to take credit full credit for for what those guys are doing over there, because it's amazing what they're doing. The factor is incredible, it's growing every day. But they're prepared from the last time I was there. They've got some amazing technology. They've got some amazing machinery in there as well, which is doing his job. So just an awesome company, awesome family. At the end of the day when you get to that first green, it's just all about locking into holding a part and just the more things that you can eliminate in the thought process with putting them, the better, you know, simplify it to just hitting that the best puts you can. And a classic example was a story I told at the Cotta Slow Open where I've got a thirty footer. There's lots of stuff that can happen in between the impact of that golfer going in the hole, but at the end of the day, you go, you just got to give up on that and just put the best stroke you can on it. And that's what was really evident. It was just an amazing moment for me which I went, Okay, I get it. I understand what Sam's on about a bill and the technology, what it's all about. So it was just purely just emptied. It was amazing. It was quite don't want too used the word it was very spiritual.

What version, what version do you put with?

What version, what version do you put with?

Well, I've I loved the DF three, I've had the prototype, and now they've just come out with a new DF which I'm Sam's going to be sending me well right now, So I think it's in the post, so I can't wait to get my hands on that because I love the DF. I love I love it's yeah, I love its size, and I love it shaft and I love it's offset as well. So I just love seeing a lot of the face. There's no shaft wall that's that's interfering with the with the leading edge. So just it's just really out there in the open and it's just good sight lines. I just love it and it just feels crazy balanced. I've used them all. The link is right. I'm using the MESSI max at the moment mes max so, which is awesome as well. So they're all all the tech is the same. I can I can part with any any one of them. And I do you know, play Wednesday comes here. I'm playing once or twice a week and I just alternated. I mix it up. It's a good feeling.