The Fire Pit PodcastFrom the 10th fairway of L.A. North, Alan Shipnuck, Mike Bamberger and surprise guest Paul Azinger discuss the wondrous host course, the feeling of this Open and the continued PGA Tour-LIV intrigue.
What is Tiger thinking right now as he's listening to this podcast? And Tiger, You've got myself call if you wish.
But he's a little miffed. He's a little bit fuddled because one thing Tiger's not used to is being on the outside looking in.
It's gonna be kind of weird for him not to be the most powerful person in golf anymore.
I got daughts.
Can't get him join, not the thing what I'm thinking about. Counts, can't get him out join, Not the thing what I'm thinking about.
Hello, this is alan Ship. Like the Backgrother Fire Drill podcast with Michael Bamberger a year ago.
On this occasion, we were at Brookline. Yes, if we were a three headed monster, then well, we have a live studio audience. We're in front of some sort of drunken beer.
They're getting rowdy up here, and we've got the Hollywood Hills behind us, We've got glorious Southern California sunshine.
Like they don't even get rowdy at Dodger Games. How could they get rowdy on the Tuesday of a US Open LA Country Club.
Okay, I exaggerated, I'm pro hyperbole, Michael, but uh, we're here, what we are here? How great is the light?
Whoever came up with the concept of the West Coast Open new it he or she or they were talking about it.
It's the best. It was your friend Sandy Tatum.
I believe no, because Hogan played in one forty eight. Lest we forget Yeah, at Riviera, we all know that. Alan, You're you lived in these parts for a long time. You went to college over the hill here at UCLA right over here. You know the Riviera course, Well you know this course to some degree?
Do you know?
Have you been here before? I have?
Yeah.
If you if you were the czar of the USGA, you could only pick one golf course to hold the National Open, Rivier or La North.
Which would it be? And why? Excellent question? I mean I would say La North because I'm not a huge fan of having the majors at courses that already host a tour event. It's not a special I mean, we know riv intimately. It has its own history through the LA Open. You know the PGA. The Elkington one was kind of weird and nobody turned out for and the greens were wonky, like everyone's. Rivier is special for what it is, but this is a grander stage. I mean, I love Rivie A's a golf course, but it's a very tight little bandbox and you come out here. Just the scale of the US Open is incredible. I mean we were talking about this off mic, but like Oak Hill was tremendous, and it felt like a big ballpark when you were around the clubhouse and you got out through the other holes, and it just felt like, you know, it could have been a tour vent on some level. You get here and it's just the build out and the energy and the crowd, and this is a cool setting. I mean, you've got the buildings of you can see Century City, You've got Beverly Hills, You've got Hollywood. Like I'm driving up here, I felt it like I was on Sandmachel Boulevard, parbably, as you said, you know, I went to school at UCLA, and this this is a I don't spend a lot of time in La anymore, but when I get here, it's like, oh, this is cool. But like, wow, I'm going to make a left turn and I'm going to be at the US Open, even though I'm right in the heart of Los Angeles. So this is a really cool spectacle.
Hey as well. This is the third major being played in the city limits so far this year. Augusta's in Augusta and Oakill's in Rochester. And here I think it's you know, as I say that, I think it's not correct. I think it's in Pittsford. But here we are in Los Angeles itself. It's absolutely astounding. I mean there were for those who don't know, there were thirty six holes here. It's as Alan was indicating, it's a big piece of property. It would be worth billions and millions of dollars, so it could somehow be developed. I learned this only recently that geologists come to this golf course to study what Angeles, Los Angeles was like a thousand years ago before it got all paved over. Well, I mean the Libreo tarpits are just down the road. I mean, yeah, that doesn't shock me, but yeah, nothing everything else is every other inch of Los Angeles has been built out right. Not only is it thirty six holes, but like just that double green at nine and eighteen plus the first tea, like it reminds me like Kingston Heath, Or's some other places where you get in that first tea box and it just feels big.
Yeah. And then there's just this expanse and it's just all golf and it's super cool. Yeah.
I mean, I guess you know this has been said by others, but I have to say I thought this when I first came here for the first time a few years ago. Whatever your notion of a US Open course was, this doesn't fill it. There's no US Open course. You know, Chambers Bay would probably be the closest thing to this. It's spectacular, it's beautiful. It's really really a special golf course. We were just talking with Gil Hans, who redid this George Thomas course, and you know, I wasn't joking. I said it's like Pine Valley meets Augustin National. But yeah, it's on a tree line golf course. It puts I don't think it puts really that much for a premium and driving it straight. The player are saying that's not the case. I trust you, Thank you all. But regardless, it's a spectacular setting. Yeah for US Open and a thrill.
I mean, are any courses tree lined anymore?
Ok So the Oakland, you know, oak Hill was a little bit but not really true.
Yeah, No, I mean I agree, there was a template back in you know what my first US Open was was Oakmont, and they've lost ten thousand trees there, right, that was claustrophobic and tight, right, And there was a lot of courses like in the fill year.
Yeah, it was still pretty close.
So the whole, the whole palette of golf has changed a little bit, and this this is is a part of that. But par will be a good score. Yer Like, it's definitely gonna be tough. And everyone's seen the videos of the ball just ping into the rough, But when you're walking round out there, I mean there's parts where it's patchy, like if you look the grass were standing on you, you're gonna be able to play out of it. I mean it's very hit or miss. I'm not I'm not a grass guy, but it feels like it's more of a lottery in this rough. You might get a good you might not. And that to me, I kind of like that. It's it's in the lap of the gods. So I think, what are you saying.
Are you saying two eighty is gonna win or playoff? I mean.
It's got a chance.
Well, I beg to different I think it'll be much lower. I think it'll be too seventy will playoff there.
Okay, heard disagree. As Gil told us, he just come from meeting and they're like, we love where the courses on Tuesday, but we're gonna start dialing it up a little bit. Like the forecast is perfect. You know, it's between seventy two and seventy five every day. It's quintessential La. Yeah, and the sun is out. It's been they've had all this May hayes and June gloom, but now the sun's out, so this place can get crispy. Yeah, I'm pre your AUGUSTA national comparison. Like there's some wicked greens out there, and they have some really fun little shelves. And if someone wins this at two seventy, I will be shocked.
And we should know. It's breezy, and you know when it gets sunny here, it gets breezy. Yeah, when they have that marine layer, it can be very still and then you could kill it, but I would I would amend that. Yes, very much weather dependent. And isn't this a joy? We've been talking about golf now for about six minutes.
More than six Well, I didn't you know, I'm not going to use a lot of hair product. I went extra light today so that the viewers could see the winds. You know, it's really they'll tell you, not yours. It doesn't doesn't quite work that way.
No, you're more like green wind diagnostic, if that's a phrase.
Yeah. But anyway, Yeah, I know we have been talking about golf. It is, it is pleasant.
It gets getting lost actually, uh, And I mean people have been saying this, and it is true. People who like tennis. You like tennis, and I like tennis. A lot of people like tenesis. Nobody knows anything about professional tennis anymore except for the four majors. Yeah, and golf could be heading that way, which I guess is good for the majors, But I don't know if that's that's good for golf.
No. I mean, did you hear Brooks at his press conference today at the end, see you guys in hard next week.
I mean, now, interpret that for me. I really didn't know how to interpret that. First.
The first thing, you know was Brooks is an absolute troll at heart, so he could have just been been taking the piss, as they say, across the ocean. That way but I don't know. I mean it if all if the whole point of this is daytone and and they're gonna try to reunify the game. If you're the tournament director at Hartford, do you want brooks Kopka the most dominant player in golf? Hell yeah? So maybe they gave him a sponsors exemption, Like I don't know why.
Maybe you're showing up as a spectator. You can't even come to a player's meeting. There's no way.
I mean, there was no way a week ago. But I don't know. Things are moving very.
Quickly, and maybe maybe someone paying him two million dollars to show at a cocktail party.
It could be.
I mean, I mean, he's definitely not in the field.
That's crazy you talk.
He's on the suspended list. How How what was mont hand only kidding about that too?
Well, the whole idea that they're gonna they're gonna hit these live guys super hard with penalties and fines, and that's not really any way to unify the sport, Like retribution and vengeance is not a good start if you're trying to bring the game back together. So I think that was bluster. I think that was posturing. I think the reality is that if you're trying to build a partnership between these different these warring tribes, like that's just not the way to do it. I mean, I think Monahan was trying to quiet his angry membership. He was trying to put a little spin on it. But when the rubber meets the road, the tour needs these guys, I mean, they just do. I mean, Brooks is the most dominant player in golf all of a sudden, and do they want to scare them away assuming that the lives live indoors, which from all the talk you know Dustin Johnson saying that you heard that right from Yasser, Like, those guys are happy over there. They're making a lot of money, they're having fun with this team element. If they want to lure them back to the tour, they're actually going to have to try. Otherwise I'll just keep stay and will stay over there. I mean, Brooks is happy with the majors, which he's in now for you know, that's not an issue as a champ as the winner of the PGA Championship doesn't even need the world ranking points. So Hartford needs Brooks more than Brooks needs Hartford, that's the bottom of Oh, that's definitely is the case. Yeah.
I know you've been potting about this broad subject for a while, and of course you're writing a book about it. I haven't heard you on this specific question and the balance of power when you've got Yasser as chairman and Jamon is CEO, and a board that, in theory is controlled by tried and true people whom we know, yeah, players and American business people and that.
Sort of thing.
Yeah, where do you think the balance of power really will lie in this for profit side of things with Monahan and the board or is yes here going to get what Yes here wants?
The latter I mean all this talk about the board, the board, the board. The PGA too had a board, it had a player advisory council, it had a whole system of governance, and Yasser reached golf over cigars. Like, I don't think you can put too much credence in the board. The board, the board. The board didn't even know this was coming, right, I think that's the answer, Like, Okay, there'll be another board. But the money is the power. Yasser has the money. But I do think what's been lost in all this it's not a merger between the PJ Tour and Live Golf. It's it's basically the PIFF is becoming a sponsor of the tour. That's it. That's all. And I think lives going to remain a going concern. That's more or less separate from that. Yaser will decide it's fate. If he wants to keep funding it and he sees a path to profitability, then he'll keep it going. If he thinks it's going to be this albatross, then he can shut it down. But I don't think Jayman will have any say in that, no matter what he's claiming publicly. And he's not.
Shutting it down because this is a little toy for him.
Why would you shoot? Why would you a little toy? And it loves golf.
Now he's hanging out with Dustin Johnson.
And maybe they have a way to make money now if they can use the tour distribution, all those platforms, if they have access now to all the tour sponsors, they've they've already invested what two billion dollars, So why just lose that money without at least trying to get it back? You know, you can at most to lose another half billy, but maybe there's a path forward. So I would be absolutely shocked. And then not to mention we have all the anti trust concerns like if if you have that, if you have the Department of Justice, you have various senators and other folks like up your ass. You can't just shut down a competitor, Like how's that gonna work? Right?
But doesn't Tuesday's news just make the Department Justice more suspicious of golf, not less suspicious exactly.
I mean, you know, Senator Blumenthal is already calling for investigations. So and you know Monaghan, he was a little overwhelmed by the moment for him to go on TV and say, yeah, we took a competitor off the board. That was the worst possible thing he could have said, Like, I guarantee that was not workshopped with Ed Hurley and other lawyers in his orbit. Yeah, that was a mistake. It felt rushed, It felt rush and and Jay would did not rise to the moment. So I don't think. I don't think Live Golf is going anywhere. Everyone wants it to disappear. Who were tour loyalists and they feel like, you know, it's become. That was part of the narrative like Live sucks, it's never gonna work. Now now the ground has shifted, it's like, okay, the new narrative is a Live is gonna get shut down by Jay, Like I don't think so.
Why is Taylor Gutch not in this field down?
Well, partly because he didn't rise to the occasion and go through Open qualifying like Sergio and others like it was a really curious decision on his part. I mean, the guy's been playing great golf. He's ascendant. You know, he said it was partly in protest and partly because it's a busy stretch. I mean, give me a break, Taylor, Like one day, one day, I mean, he did get jobbed by the by the USGA. You know, they had always exempted into the US Open anyone who qualified for the Tour Championship. Taylor Gooch made enough points during last year's fed X Cup season to earn a place in the Tour Championship even though he left for Live. So then the US changed the word and you say not only qualified, but eligible, And obviously he forfeited his eligibility when he went to Live. He's the only guy who was affected by that very arbitrary change in working. And you know that was a little window into the soul of Mike Wand and where he stands on this whole divide because he sanctioned all that, and it was interesting. It doesn't as fill of all people playting out. It doesn't serve the USGA well when you have a guy who's been playing at such a high level, right, I mean, shoot sixty two to sixty two in any tournament in the world is impressive, let alone against a lot of major championship winners and Hall of famers and Ryder Cuppers on a course it has a legit pedigree. I mean that course over in Singapore, it hosted Singapore Open a bunch of times. The role call of winners is really good. I mean, it's a legit golf course. So I don't know how it benefits USGA to exclude him, but that was their choice.
It's kind of a weird thing to be focusing on one missing player on the eve of a great championship, but it does feel a little wrong. And you know, I'm yes, as you point out, he's sure to He could have, of course played in thirty six of qualif if he wanted to, and he didn't and he should have.
I mean that was that was a mistake by him, but it was also you know, he said it was partly in protest to like kind of bringing attention to what the USGA did. And again, when you get into these issues of antitrust and callusion, it doesn't look good.
Yeah, so we're here. Do you think this means that we're never going to see a us O part of me as a masking this, But I do think I know the answer. Tory Pines is not on not on the list for anything, is it right now? Not PJ or or US opens.
Nothing.
No, I mean the the as you were saying, it's got the annual event. Maybe that puts in a special category. But I thought those opens were special at Toroy. What we had too, We had two great.
Winners to walk offs on the sev second hole. Are the kind kind of yeah, two amazing putts on the saving second hold. Yes, Tiger went on to do his two really really great players and beautiful backups. People the architecture walks don't like Tory Pines. It's it's a somewhat a mentory test. There's not a lot of imagination. I mean every hole, excuse me, every hole has bunkers, and every green is bunkers. The faerry, every green is guarded by bunkers. They just ask a very basic question like can you execute the same shot over can you hit the fairry? Can you hit it on the green. It's slightly ponderous, but it does sort of bring out the most precise and the best golfer, which was John Romson. Yeah, and it certainly looks great on TV. The San Diego community has turned out, but you know, pebbles an anchor site. I think this is gonna become an anchor site. Olympic is back in the mix after they've redone it, so something's got to give, and unfortunately it's probably Tory.
Yeah, but as you said, they still have their winter events, so totally it.
Feels out of it. They've been playing the San Diego Open for decades and decades.
It's an interesting time in major championship golf because I think the PJA, even though he's better first, going to May has been a great move for them. But after you saw the great andess of course like go kill, I don't know, maybe this stuff they're building in Frisco is great, but yeah, it's hard to feel like I feel excited about it. But when you get there, oh this is spectacular.
It looks cool. And that's also Gil Hant, who also did an Olympic like there was an open doctor, you know, Rhys Jones or no sorry, Trent Jones, Robin Trent Jones. Yeah, and they kind of took it in a very penal, old old school smash mouth style. You know. Gill's a different aesthetic and it's still tough, but there's a lot more room to play. There's a lot more imagination around the greens, and obviously that we all prefer that. So I think he's found the secret sauce. So we'll see about Frisco. I mean, I've been it's a challenge for the PGA of America to fine venues that work. And I think it's a mistake to go to the old US open venues because, as you wrote in your excellent preview piece on firepitc Collective dot com, the you know, Oak Hill felt like a US open, right, And so I.
I like the USGG it's its own field and he's other thing.
And I think that's new courses. That's that's that's taken it to really different spots. So maybe Frisco becomes that. I would love for them to go to Bandon Dunes. I would.
I would love for them that would be neat. I mean it would be need of Chambers Bay. Could Chambers Bay was spectacular, just wasn't quite there. Yeah, but it could get there. There's no reason why I couldn't.
I know, well, I mean, and there was that period where the usg tried it. They went to Chambers and they went to Aaron Hills.
Aaron never worked.
Neither one was really an artistic success. All you had great winners. I mean the speed DJ shootout those shots on the last hole Chambers was amazing. I mean that was the rise of Koepka at Aaron Hills. So like the courses produced, but they didn't feel like US Opens like I would. They're better suited for what the PGA should be, something new, different, imaginative. I like the US Open at the traditional courses. And even though this is a new venue, this is an old golf course. I mean it George Thomas, it goes back to the twenties, like, yeah, it's golden era, and so I think it's cool that that they've brought it back into the fold. I expect that this is going to be an incredible week and that this they'll be back here again.
Has your editor, Jophi Ferrari Adler, an avid reader presses he read the first draft or the submitted book at this point he has, Yeah, how's that going for you?
Well, JOEFI, who's a friend and a colleague of both of ours. The colleagues nothing right word? What is it? He's like our overlord, he's our mentor, he's our big brother, he's our school principal.
He's all those things and more.
The editor fills a lot of roles. He loved it. I mean, he sent me the super flowery and he's gotta put this up against anything Bob Woodward ever done for real time reporting. And wow it was awesome. And yeah, so they're you know, I probably ate in the confusion when I my tweet when all the news broke. I had turned the book in Sunday night, like two in the morning Monday, like, I slept in, I took a bath, I took a nap. I've never felt so relaxed and happy in my life. And then Tuesday morning, the world was on fire. But when you turn into a book, it's not the end of the process. It's the beginning of a whole new process. Right, the editor gets the first pass. They have some big picture things you can incorporate or you ignore, you fight about, and then it goes to the copyetter, who's like the world's most uptight you know, English teacher, anyone's ever had, They fuss over every comma. There's a legal review like all that takes six to eight weeks at least. Then the book comes back to you and you can keep massaging it. So I was always going to update it, probably through the British Open and if there was a judication of the world ranking and all this stuff. So I have time and I'm reporting the story. I'm feverishly reworking the last chapters, adding new material, going through in massaging passages, amplifying things that we now know or turn out to be more significant than we thought. And so it's cool that people said. A few people had said to me, you know, well, why put the book out now? We don't know how the story ends, you know, And I was like, well, we don't exactly know the ending, but we just we just a huge plot to us has been revealed and it's cool. So the whole thing is in one tidy package. And if this news had broken in a month or two months now, I would have been crush because the books that say two months, the books at the printers, they are no getting it back and would have felt dated. So now it's going to be up to the minute. And actually our jophy and our friends are are having meetings like right now about moving the release date up two or three weeks, which is a lot, bring it to what early early to mid October, so the Halloween just just to ride this wave and it's all anyone's talking about, so why not? So yeah, I'm game. I mean, this is an intense week for me because I'm I have to get all the changes done and we're here to cover the national Championship. But it's all good. I mean, yes, I think.
That book is more even handed than you might realize.
Yeah.
Yeah, well I was going to ask you that, like in your mind, do you think it sort of bends over backwards to let the live story be told because the PGA tour has been sold by a very powerful pr machine for decades, yes, and the live people are new to it and then you don't have a powerful pr mission that's been around for decades, so you might have thought, oh, it's incumbent upon me to show this other story. But I read it as a very balanced piece of reporting.
Well, thank you. That was my intention. I mean, i'd say my idea balance is to be critical of both sides and to celebrate celebrate both sides when they do something right. And that was you know, I kind of I think it swings back and forth where passages feel pro live, passages feel pro tour, passages are super critical of one person or one entity, and it just toggles back and forth. So it wasn't It's like a double dog. It's not a dead straight hole where I'm just trying to hit it straight every time, like I'm really, I'm trying to tack both directions and that that's anyone who plays golf knows it's more interesting that way. So but I appreciate that, and that was always my intention. It's it's been interesting in you know, the stories that I've I've typed in the podcast we've done since the news broke a week ago. Some people have been they've detected, Oh, you're suddenly pro live it's like, well, it's more like mon Hands out there talking, Jimmy Dunn's out there talking. It all happened at a tour event. All the tour guys are talking, Rory is talking. You know, Live didn't have this platform, like, and the only guy who's not talking is Yaser because he doesn't have to talk. His money's loud enough. And so I felt like, well, then I was advocating for Li's point of view. I was explaining it, and I was trying to help. My roleness is to help people make sense of all this because so much has happened in the shadows. It's been so secretive this and it's it's so complex and nuanced, and so I feel like I'm a tour guide through this, this this maze in some ways, and so I've been interested there. It's like, oh, you're pro Live. It's like no, but I've been talking to Live people for a year and I can get him on the phone and I understand where they're coming from. But I was also talking to tour executive, tour players, tour agents, like I've really just tried to explain what's happening, but there's been there was so much coming out. It's like if you're listening to headphones, you know, and on one year has got the tour and the other live. The side coming bringing that the tour spin was a hell of a lot louder, and I feel like the whole debate needs more balance.
Right right, What is your personal feelings about yes here, you've met him at least on one occasion, right.
Yeah, Yeah, we had a quick chat. Actually a dead minister, he's and I've talked to a lot of people about him. He's a very measured he's very careful, very soft spoken, and impressive in the energy he projects. He's not He's not a Greg Norman, who's who's loud and abrasive. He's not even a j Monaghan. You know, this hockey kid from Boston and the chip on his shoulder. He feels like a diplomat. He dresses like a diplomat.
You know.
I'm sure all this stuff is made on a Seville road and he carries himself like that. It's impressive. And I thought even the interview he did with Monahan was interesting because he was very deferential to Jay. He took the backsheat literally, Yeah, he let Jay do Moosa talk in there was no clothing, there was no victory lap, there was no sense that I just bought you. And you know, if you'd put Norman on that stage, it would have been very different. There's the reason why why why Yasir has become the guy, because he always was behind the scenes. I mean, he's always been the shot callar. This has been his baby. He's nurtured it, he's been he's micromanaged it, he's refereed every dispute, like he's been more involved than anyone really understands. But I thought it was impressive the way and as we talked about a minute ago, he's dropped out of site. He's not out there chirping, you know, Like you know Jimmy Dunn, well we all everyone in the golf world knows Jimmy Dunn, and he's an impressive individual. But like for him to go on the on the Golf channel and talk about like killing nine to eleven dudes with his bare hands, like that was sort of wildly inappropriate. And they obviously he's gone underground since then, Like no one's heard a peep really from Jimmy Dunn since that. Like, you know, y also would never make that mistake. He's never gonna get caught up in the moment. Like he's just a very careful Yeah, he parcels out every word very judiciously, and so he's the right guy for this moment, like cooler heads needed to prevail. It's not Jimmy Dunn, it's probably not Ja mo Han, It's definitely not Greg Norman, but it certainly is him.
What do you think his relationship with MBS is, Like.
Well, they're close friends and confidants, Like, you know, he's.
Do you think you get him on the phone and he Jommy wants him?
Oh, definitely, Yeah. I mean to run to run the Public Investment Fund makes you one of the most powerful people in the world. To run a Ramco, which is the most profitable corporation on the planet, makes you one of the most powerful people in the world when the same guy does both. Like that's absolute power.
Multiplier effect there, Yes, in calculable.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know what's your top five. It's it's probably Biden, it might it might be uh Putin, I mean you probably the NBS is there in Yosser, Like I don't know, it's like that's it like that those are the people who are moving all the pieces on the chess board. And so yeah, he's the fact that he loves golf so much is a big deal. Because there's a funny quote in the book from Keith Pelly, like he said, he said, if Yosa was a volleyball guy, they'd be building volleyball arenas and creating volleyball super leagues and trying to host volleyball World Championships. It's like a great blessing to every stakeholder that he loves golf so much.
Yeah, yeah, interesting, Well all right, let's let's get back to the golf course here for a second. Yeah, as it relates to live Phil top ten no top ten this.
Week, I mean these are the grasses he grew up on. This is he's a southern California guy. I mean, that's a tough one I would if I had. If it's binary like that, I'll say top ten. Because there's he's the energy he had on Sunday Augusta. It was like he got his life back, he got his mojo back. All of a sudden, he was Phil Mickelson again. That's powerful and this is his chance to do it all over again. I think This is gonna be much more of a short game test than a traditional US Open, you know, So it's these it's gonna be It's gonna be fun to watch Phil out here. I think I think he wants it so bad. Like you talk about who's walks in the gate here dying to win this tournament. Some guys are just hoping to play well. Some are already already choking in the parking lot. Like Johnny Miller used to say, Phil is here to win this mofo. He wants it so bad. So we'll see if his game shows up. But if I would say top ten, what about.
You, well, if he topped tens, he can contend, you know, does they really want to go crazy about it? It is most likely his last best chance to become one of the guys is one of the Curry Grand Slam.
Yeah.
I don't think you've got to drive it very straight here, h You maybe have to put irons in play here. If it's breezy like this and the frairies are fast, I don't think guys are going to hit a lot of driver. And he's still he pitches the ball graat and he sometimes can put well it wouldn't shock me to see him contend at all, actually, based on how well he played Augusta National.
I mean, I you can debate a lot of things about how the landscape has changed, but Phil was right, Like he called all this stuff a long time ago.
He's advocated for it. Yeah and sing you what's up, Paul? Get here, come on in here. We need professional help, my exactly temporary. Why he looks ten years younger than I, I do not know, my man? How are you have you played this course much over the years?
Yeah? I know the course reasonably well. It's a real tricky course, you know. And a couple of players think that there's going to be some complaining good play slow.
Well, you know, the.
USGA, they set it up for themselves. They want to set it up the way they want to do it, and they'll do it. They're not trying to make that. I hope they don't try to make the players happy, because that wouldn't be right.
That wouldn't be them.
It wouldn't be them. So it's it's I'm really looking forward to it. There's gonna be a lot of decisions that need to be made off the tee. I feel like and you know. I was just out there on number six. It's a real tricky hole. You know, you can go for it. It's a short hole. And I watched John Wood on Golf Channel this morning do a nice about a six minute segment on that hole, on how to play the whole. I got out there this afternoon and three caddies were out there. Tom Kim's Joey was out there, and home Ass caddy was out there, and Xander Softlei's caddy, and they were on the cell phone and one was on the tee, the other was down there by the green and they were throwing up models and trying to see each other on the line and all this stuff. This is how hard they work to get ready for what they're trying to do today or this week, and they were really trying to figure out how to play that hole.
This is a strategic course.
The local caddies could probably tell these guys they should hire a local caddy, I feel like, and let them go around with the players. That would be wise. I don't know if anybody's thought about it.
Yeah, I do not think you're gonna see guys hit a lot of driver. If it says dry like this, if the sun says out, the bakes out, why would you hit driver here?
I don't know that they have to hit driver, but it feels wide to them. You know, the fairways aren't as wide as they look, maybe, but it feels wide to them.
They may hit driver.
I've heard everything from you know, they're gonna hit every club in the bag.
I feel like, you know.
I talked to Gil Hans the other day on the phone, Dan Hicks and I with Gil Capps. He put the call together and we got a real inside scoop on how gil Hans wants this course to be and how he wants it to play. And uh, you know the goal is you know again, it's like the USGA mantra, not to embarrass these guys, but to really identify him who's the best. And it's the kind of property that can do it. George Thomas is gil Hans's favorite architect, you know. And it's a masterpiece, you know. But a couple guys I think might explode and get all irritated about it. Yeah.
Well, when you're in LA, how often you get mistaken for Dennis Quaid?
Never yet?
That is now, of course, when I ask Nick Valdohoefn he gets mistaken for Harrison forty says oh all the time.
Oh, of course, he would say that.
I could see what was your best US Open finish?
Well, let's see, I probably Baltis Rawle. I had really some nice chances. I lost by three of Brookline. When Curtis won. I had a couple of weeks your Jansen won. I had a really good chance. I had a couple three chances, but it just didn't happen for me. You know. It was one of those things. Usually putting was always my issue.
Yeah, well, would you think is a good score this week?
Yeah?
I did.
Yeah, it's a good score. It's a great score. Actually, it's a great score. Two eighty is probably going to be a winner.
Well that's what Shipling says.
Is that four under?
Oh? Is it four under?
Oh?
I was?
It was a seventy.
But you never know, Like right now we have you know, we had fog all morning, you know, that marine layer and it was kind of brisk. It was a little bit breezy and cold, and then it burned off and got slick calmed in it and now look at.
It, it's cooking.
It's a it's this is a sea breeze, a standard sea breez. I think the guys are going to be out here playing in this. You know it won't be easy. You'll be on We'll be covering it all too on NBC.
You know what you're out of you by handling LIV guys versus PJ tour gues.
Oh on the broadcast, that's not my call.
I mean, the producers are going to show the shots that need to be shown that Tommy Roy and Tommy Randolph and the director go are going to get it right there. There won't be any favoritism from those guys. I don't think.
Will you address the whole changing landscape of professional golf on the telecast? I hope not.
None of us know enough, But I just know I feel like the players need some representation, you know, like a union. I'm not saying that, but you know, they need somebody that you know, obviously they're out of the loop.
When the when the Tour Players Association stuff was going on back with with Larry Rinker and Mark Brooks and those guys, what was your stance on that that was a quasi union back in the day.
Yeah, I heard what they were saying, but I didn't think it was all that necessary at the time.
You didn't pay your thousand dollars dues and join it.
No, I didn't join. You know, I was against what Greg was trying to do. And back in the nineties, Arnold, you know, everybody whatever. Arnold, you know, and Jack were all about. That's what kind of what we were all about. But this is just such a shock, I think to all of our systems. We don't even know what's We don't know what's coming. You know, you don't know what's coming. I don't know what's coming.
Yeah, yeah, Al and I were saying earlier, and I'm like to hear your take on it. But all the chaos and golf right now, it only makes the majors more major.
You know, I look at it like this, what an interesting time to be in the sport of golf. I mean, we don't even realize it, but we're on a heck of a run, guys, I mean, really are We're getting to watch it all, you know, we all of us got to watch Tiger and we got to you know, I got to play were But you have different runs. I think we all go through like ten year runs at least I do that seems like I do. But I'm on a good run right now. I'm, you know, pretty happy to be in the game off and covering it. It's pretty exciting because nobody knows what's happening. We don't know what's going on. It's it's I just I really feel I wish the players would get somebody to represent him in some capacity.
Yeah you know that's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, Paul. Great for you to stop with us. We appreciate it.
You have yourself a great week without Roger. I don't know who handles the wine decisions at dinner.
Roger was here today. It was great to see him. It was great to see him. I wish that Roger was still working in Gary too, because we love him. But times everything changes.
John is going to be in the house tomorrow.
He doesn't change.
Paul does not change.
Timeless.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, thanks both.
Yeah, who the hell was that?
Yeah?
Yeah, he's he's holding a he's holding a yard is guide. Oh yeah, Paul.
Now, you and I don't watch a lot of golf on TV, but I know that, or tell people I know that are well, we're here watching it.
We're in person.
Yeah, Hi, guys, But honest to god, people go crazy about their golf announcers. I know Paul Easier, first off, he's super knowledgeable about golf.
Yes, he sees a.
Shot and he describes it. Why do people have such polarizing feelings about Paul Easier.
There's this weird element of golf Twitter that there's obsessed with commenting on TV, Like there's an easy solution. I mostly have it on mute. Yeah.
Like, but even Nick Faldo he knows a lot about golf, a lot more than you and I, and he describes shots.
Very very well.
I actually prefer Paul Johnny Miller, well, he was outstanding. I mean, we've had a lot of good golf broadcasters over the years.
It's it's such a it's such an intimate thing. They're in your living room with you, you know, like you. It's it's like they're they're a guest when he weekends a year, and they follow you into the bathroom, maybe while you're eating a meal.
You know.
It's like a real relationship you have with these people, and.
So I generally like them, like Mackay. I've said this to Mackay many times. Mackay's thing, he knows a lot about golf. He'd see the ball in the lie and tell you what the guy could do out of that lie. Well, if you talk to Tom Watson, he says, the line tells you everything. Yeah, the line takes the shot, including the line when the ball is sitting on a team and what the wind's doing and everything else. But golf's a thinking person's game. And I just think it's neat that we've got so many former players who are well spoken. You know, Phil, for the twenty minutes that he did, it was brilliant.
This is an underrated aspect. Phil's back, baby, Like all the things that it's looked like he gave up, they were taken away. He could be in the tower. He can be an honorary start at the Masters. You can be a Ryder Cup captain.
Huh.
Like if the game is going to get put back together and reunified, like all the things that we thought Phil had had given up, like they're attainable again. And Phil in the in the CBS Tower would be spectacular, and so you know that was probably gonna happen. It was, it was. It was a lost opportunity. And now he's back in the mix.
Well, that's interesting. I mean, right now, he's still such a polarizing figure, but he could, he could potentially get there. We've seen bigger reclamation projects.
Bill, you beat me, Joe. Well, I mean, polarizing is good, Like that's if you're in the entertainment business. That's I mean, that's why Stephen A. Smith works. That's why you know, Skip what's his name? Bayless works? Like, yeah, polarizing is the name of the game. Like, why wouldn't you have Phil in there? He would he would be so entertaining. Some people would hate it, but it would they would always be talking about it if you so obviously create buzz like why not?
But people sometimes say to mean, what's Alan?
Like, you know Alan? What is Alan? Really? Like what you said?
He has a very unusual personality defect that he works to his advantage. He does not care if people are pissed off at.
I mean, yes and no, I do sort of. I enjoy the banter. I kind of enjoy the shrapital. But I'm up human, you know, like you believe I Shakespeare. But I mean my my my compact is with the reader, right like that that's.
My ultimate where the same class.
I'm willing to put it out there, and yeah, I get chirped at people. You know, Justin Thomas trolls me on Instagram. But if, if, if that's gonna inhibit you from from saying what you believe or reporting like something like that that you believe is really insightful, then you're a pussy. And she got the business Like that's the equivalent of a guy who's got you know, two forty over water into the wind on the same second hole. Is he gonna try to win the tournament or is he trying to protect second place? Like, either you go forty, don't And.
So unless you're David Thoms, yeah, well then you lay up pitch pitcher, beautifully, make the put and win.
That's a that's an excellent rebuttle.
But well, there's more than one way to make for.
There's more than one way to make for.
The point is like, is Jake distracted by something?
Yeah, he's checking out the girl in the green dress. I mean, Jake, clean it up, man. I will say, have you noticed how much attention we're getting just by holding these microphones? Like we should definitely do this down in like Abbot Kinney or a place where the where the beautiful people are and pass out business cards like it would be you'd make the week a lot more interesting, especially for me.
Very Well said, Uh, it's been interesting to see how your profile has grown in the past year. I mean, what's it like for you now? But Phil, the book came out and suddenly your profile changed with it, And I noticed the last year at the US Open and even here today.
What's happened like for you? Yeah, I mean it's fun, you know whatever. I will tell you. The thing that that made my brain melt was I took the train down from Boston last year during the US Open into New York City to have a celebratory lunch with my editor and and my agent because you know, the book was on bestseller list and all that, and and then afterwards, I was walking in the East Village and I was crossing the street like I was dressed to go out in New York City in the East Village is not golf, so it's not no, it's not the Upper east Side and West or west Chester, Yeah exactly. And it was like I was wearing like four different golf logos and I was walking across the street and some dude's like, hey, are you allan ship? I was like, yeah, he's like I love the book like that was that was weird? Yeah, that was weird. It's one thing we're standing next to the tenth fairway here right at the US Open, people are going to recognize members of the golf media, but when you're out of contact. I was even pizza in the Chicago airport. Weird things like that. But you know, I mean, we're we have public facing lives.
So well, I think Jake probably wants to wrap this up, But how do you feel about it? On would you like to keep going? Would you like the listener to? Should we release the listener?
You're steal in my lines, you can't win the US Open on Tuesday, but you can definitely lose your audience if the podcast too long. So yeah, well we'll let the We'll let our people go. But it's always fun. Michael and well, I think the plans we're gonna do one on Friday, grating halfway mark. Certainly do it Sunday. Yes, we have a winner and we can look and we.
Will have a winter on Sunday, because says all as All, No, there are no playoffs anymore in the major championships, so well, excuse me, no eighth and hole Monday playoffs?
Can we how lame? Is two holes like either be sudden death or be four holes? Two holes is like is this weird? Like splitting the baby? Like, yme on, Yeah, it is cool, though I haven't seen the closing TV window, but you know they're going to push it deep on Sunday because then you get the primetime East Coast audience. Like I love the idea that the US Open is live and being decided and people are watching it in the dark. I don't know why that's so cool to me, but it is in the United States, but I'll talk about in England.
Right right, So do you know that there was once a thirty six hole playoff for the US Open back.
In the day.
That's that's mot So that's old school USGA. They've gotten too kinds is patchy rough two whole playoffs.
I was a little surprised by Zing because I thought he'd be more aligned with the PJ with the U s G as your you know, your fierce of.
Father and it was no. But all the players, the players of the players, they resent the us GA. They feel like one week of year these blue coats and these bureaucrats like dictate to them how to play the game, and half the time they screw it up. Like the anti PGA sentiment runs really deep among the players, and it's only it's only becoming more exaggerated with all the course screw ups.
The last time, I think you unwillfully misspoke. You said the anti PJ tour, but you're you're you were looking for anti USGA. I think you're right. It works both ways right now.
Yeah, it's yeah, in this weird intersection of Tiger thinking right now as he's listening to this podcast and Tiger, you've got myself call if you wish. But well, Patrick, mean, he's so this was interesting. No, I can't say I'll spoil something that's good in the book, but yeah, Tiger is he's a little miffed. He's a little bit fuddled because one thing Tiger's not used to is being on the outside looking in. And he got kind of hoodwinked like a lot of people in this whole deal. And that's true, and he put himself out there and took a strong stance in favor. He didn't really go down the moralistic route because he kind of probably intuitively knew that was a mistake tactically, but he went down the route of, you know, it's not real competition, it's not a meritocracy, it's not golf of the highest level. But look at what's happening with the elevated events, no cut, Like the tour product was beginning to converge with the live product anyway, Like Tiger had kind of lost the argument as it was, so he's probably a little disenchanted.
Yeah, it's gonna be kind of weird for him not to be the most powerful person in golf anymore, because if you were, his tournament would be at least one hundred and twenty players with a cut.
Yeah, it's still I mean, both him and Jack are now advocating public before a cut, even if they go from like eighty to sixty, you know, which is kind of silly, but just yeah, that's still everything's up for grabs. Now, whatever we thought was gonna happen, nobody knows, Like the elevated events could get completely reconfigured. All it's all it's all up in the air now, So we'll see how that plays out. I mean, all right, I get a store or d of course, yeah, okay, thank you. I love when Michael gets angry. It's good for the listeners. All right, this is the tenth Fairway of Los Angeles Country Club. That's Michael Bamberger. I'm Alan ship Nook. Thanks for listening to this Fire Drill podcast. We'll be back in your ear on Friday and on Sunday and typing in between, so thanks for listening. That's the end.
I'm Ben Big and I played the wind, made a fortune when my shit game and.
Ran the table and never thought I could fall. Then the win hit me lack a canon, and now I can't shake this losing streak. Every road I take is a dead hand street.
I got thoughts in my head, can't get them out, trying not to think what I'm thinking about. I've got thoughts in my head. I can't get them out, trying not to think what I'm thinking about.
