In this episode of The Deal, Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly talk with the New York Yankees’ Assistant General Manager, Jean Afterman. Afterman explains how she helped change the game by helping to introduce Japanese players to the MLB, what she learned from legendary Yankees owner, George Steinbrenner, and the advice her mother gave her to start off every negotiation on the strongest foot.
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Hi everyone, welcome to the deal. I'm your host, Jason Kelly longside my partner Alex Rodriguez.
All right, Alex, we're gonna talk some baseball.
I have to say, this has been a really fun early twenty twenty five, you know, so to spring up twenty twenty five. I feel like we're diving into baseball in a really meaningful way, which kind of makes sense since you played the game pretty well. But one of the great things about the show is the access that you bring to some people who might be a little less known but are incredibly important. Gene Aferman is one of those people, assistant general manager for the Yankees. Help us understand before we get into the conversation who she is.
Well, first of all, what I think she's a person that should be in the Hall of Fame. And I say that because she's been assistant general manager to Brian Cashman for over twenty plus years. And you know, give credit to the late George Steinbernner for bringing in a strong woman who's a lawyer, an incredible asset to the New York Yankees. And this episode, Jason was special to me because I'm so close to Jean and we've been through so much highs and lows, and she was always the voice of reason in that organization. And while she never put up with any bs, she was always like so transparent and so honest, And so you will hear that in our episode.
Oh take no prisoners for sure.
I mean.
One of the interesting things about her, and one of the really timely elements to this is back in the nineties, she was really early on in identifying the potential for the business of baseball in Japan. We now take that pretty much for granted. We have a generational player that we're all getting to watch in Shohyo Tani. She was on that story law long long ago, and I feel like given some of your experience as a player, some of your more recent experience as a businessman, you appreciate sort of this nexus of baseball in Japan.
You were just there not too long ago, right, a few months back.
I was. I was there and it was my third time in Japan, and it was the time that I actually enjoyed it the most because I didn't have the burden too having to go play and be focused on that. But the two prior times Gene Afferman was on both trips. One was a nineteen ninety six trip for Major League Baseball All Star that we would go every other year, and in that team we had Ky Ripken, we had Barry Bonds and Roberto Allen. It was this phenomenal team and a great experience. The second time we went back was two thousand and four with the Yankees, and we had a special sauce and that special sauce was Gene Afferman because she was like our super Asian yet she was kind of like lead counsel for us. And she was also very close with Hideki Matsui, was very influential from bringing he Deki Matsui to come to the Yankees, who of course won the d VP when won the Tighter in two thousand and nine against the Phillies. And Gene Afferman was basically fun and center and she ran point for basically both those trips, but especially for the Yankees in two thousand and four when we opened against the Race.
Yeah, and just incredible sort of what she's seen and you know, some of what folks will hear that was newer to me of course, or new to me, not as new to you as some of the you know, quite literal.
Inside baseball, what it's like inside.
I mean, truly the most iconic baseball franchise of all time, led by the most iconic owner of all time, George Steinbrenner, the Boss.
Yeah, indeed. And you know, I had a really interesting moment when my daughter Natasha, who was around you know, call it seven years old, when she met Jean. She was like, oh, that's nice. What does she do? And I said, well, she works for the Yankees and she's the assistant general manager of Brian Cashman. She goes, wait, I'm confused, but she's a woman. Wow, And I said, no, that's exactly right, Like you can do this one day too. I mean, Gene Afferman is showing you and millions of young ladies around the world that you two can do it. So that's why I think someone like Gene Afferman is not just that she's an executive. She was first an agent, pivoted to being a top executive, one of the highest top executives for the New York Yankees, and did it flawlessly over two and a half three decades. And that's why I feel that she has a place in Cooperstown.
Yeah.
Well, from your lips to Cooper's down's ears. We'll see if that turns out to be true. And in the meantime, I can say it is a highly enjoyable and pretty insightful conversation coming up with Gene Afferman. So joining us now is Gene Affman. She is the Yankees assistant general manager. And I have to say, Gene, one of the real benefits of working with Alex Rodriguez. There are many, but one of them is he knows where the real power is and that is the truth when it comes to you. So I will start by asking you this, and I asked this of all the folks who worked around the Yankees, do you remember first meeting Alex Trader Guest?
Oh, I certainly do. I certainly do. And I didn't mean to goffa.
I wasn't goafawing at Alex because he does know where all the power is.
When I was defawing at you know that I'm the power.
Actually, Alex, you and I met way back in the last century. Was it ninety five or ninety six on a plane across the Pacific.
Ocean too Japan?
Wow? Wow, Yes, I was, And.
You were just a cult You were a wee baby. You were sitting in back of me. I was Hideo Nomo's guest.
And do you remember it was the US Japan all.
Start, yeah, with the Ripken and Barry Bonds.
Yes, was that your rookie season.
It was right after my official rookie season in ninety six, going to ninety seven. I believe so all the.
Like Piazza and Bonds and Ripken, they all were sitting. It was a charter and they're all sitting in first class and you had to sitting back with the schleppers us when you were sitting writing back of me, I think I was with Brian Gray, who was with it major League Baseball. We had a great time. That was an incredible trip. That's when I first met Alex Rodriguez.
And so, Alex, what was your first impression of Gene?
My first impression with Gene was was when I got to the Yankees, and I knew of Gene of course before, but I would I would say our friendship and our professional relationship also started in two thousand and four when I got there, and I quickly realized that every big decision Gene would be right in the middle of it, and whether it was like writing great documents. I mean one of her head into gems is she's an amazing writer, and she does most of the writing from the Yankees. As I remember, she had a voice of reason. She was always supportive, she wouldn't put up with any bs, but she was always came from a loving place, and anytime there was something important with the Yankees, I felt like Jean was a voice of reason.
Well, my standard response to me, oh pshaw.
So it's interesting that you mentioned Japan because incredibly timely for what's going on in baseball right now.
It was big back then.
It has just blossomed into something that I'm maybe you expected at the time, maybe you didn't, And maybe that's where to start. You've seen this for a long time, this connection between Major League Baseball and Japan, the sport of baseball in Japan.
What's the state of it now?
Well, that's over thirty years ago. I keep thinking, you know, way back in the last century. Over thirty years ago was when Don Nomura, an incredible agent with whom I worked. He's my comrade in arms, and we represented Hedeo Nomo together, and then Alfonso Soriano and Hideki Rabu and we kind of were sort of the steps along the way I think to where we are now. And I know that sounds arrogant, but those are my you know, my fighting days.
I love them. But you know.
Originally there was an agreement I think signed in nineteen sixty seven. I think that effectively prohibited Japanese players from coming to the United States. I mean players would go over to Japan all the time, but no Japanese players. Murkami came in the late sixties, but since then there really hadn't been anybody. So Don and Ire began working together because as a newly minted lawyer, when he told me that there were no Japanese players allowed in the US, I thought, well, that can't be legal.
So the way that.
The Japanese rules and the US rules worked back then was there were all these Swiss cheese holes in the way they lined up, So we just like do what we could to drive a mac truck through all those holes. The first one was Nomo, and under the Yakyo kiyaku, which is the Japanese rules, if a player voluntarily retires, he can sign with a US club. So we voluntarily retired Nomo and he came over here, and there really wasn't that much of an uproar over it. The Japanese Commissioner's office didn't really fight us, and the US Commissioner's office didn't really fight us because nobody thought Japanese.
Players would have any success over here.
So they thought, oh, well, Nomo will come over here, there'll be a little distraction, and then he'll just go right back to Japan. And then, of course Nomo was phenomenal here, and so then, Alex, you know this, Once there's success with either a Japanese pitcher or a Cuban pitcher, the pendulum swings and everybody thinks that every single Japanese player is going to be Nomo. So other players wanted to come to the United States. And after Nomo, they changed the rules so that you couldn't do that.
And the way you could do it under their rules was Soriano, who Alex knew. Soriano could go.
To salary arbitration lose his salary arbitration in Japan because their rules at that time were like US rules from the forties. The arbitration would be heard by the commissioner and the two presidents of the league, and if the player lost and didn't accept the salary that was offered, they would voluntarily retire him as a punitive measure. It was a punishment for not accepting the salary. So we went to salary arbitration. We asked for a very reasonable amount. Of course, we lost, and then we said not going to accept the salary, and sure enough, boom, they voluntarily retired him.
So that's how he came.
Over, So Jane, thinking about how integral and how closely you worked with Hideki to get him over to New York. Obviously an integral part of our championship team in two thousand and nine he won the world title. What was it specifically when you first met Hideki, probably back in Japan that made you think that he had the talent and he also had the maturity to play in New York because you know it's different in New York, and then basically the poise to do what he did. Was there anything that stood out to you from his character?
Just did her out?
Briefly for those of us who aren't on a first name basis, we're talking about Hitdeki Metsui.
Just for everyone out there, sorry.
There also was Hideki Rabu, who was the start of the posting system. But actually Matsui I didn't meet him, but he is one of the reasons why I actually got started in US Japanese baseball. When I was over there on an unrelated case, Don took me to a Yumiri Giants baseball game, and I think that was Matsui's probably his rookie year, and there was I still remember standing at the plate stick straight up alex As you remember, the stick was always straight up and boom, And that's where I said to Don, how come there aren't more Japanese players playing here? And with Matsui, he waited the ten years that they wait for free agency in Japan. So I waited the ten years and the Yumiri Giants were I mean, they say the Yankees of Japan huge, absolutely huge, And Tokyo is just like New York. It's a huge market, and the Yomurri Shimbun is the paper there. They have the largest distribution in all of Asia. So he was used to it. He was used to New York, he was used to the pressure, he was used to playing on a championship team, and he had he had the skills. So I mean, the minute you saw him, you just new and also I had heard that Babe Ruth had been his favorite player, so I thought we had a chance.
You leaned into that.
Alex, what do you I mean, what do you remember about Matsui? I mean, you know, as you say, that was transformational. I mean, Mattsui is obviously transformative to the baseball of the team, but I would think, and Alex, I'll start with you, he's also transformative to the business and the fan base and every like. It globalizes the Yankees even more. Could you feel that as a player out?
Oh, there's no question about it. Jason. Look, I mean before I answer that, let me back up a little bit, because for our listeners, baseball in Japan is huge. And what I mean by huge is think about American football here times five.
Wow.
It's almost like a monopoly in sports. It is a religion. They take it very, very seriously. I was just there a few months ago in Japan, and I could not believe how much buzz there is Ronald Tani, the Yankees, the Dodgers, the Cubs. Going there of course with the Cubs. But Jason, answer your question about DECI I learned there so much from him. He was so disciplined, absolutely like so consistent with his personality. And then one thing that's unusual for our listeners to know. He was more like an American. He was really big. He was large, He had big, big shoulders, he had strong hands. And usually what we've come accustomed to Japanese players back in the day was a little bit smaller middle endfielder, a little bit more like each row right, each row, And here comes to Deki Matu. He was favorite players, you know, the great Babe Ruth and the rest is history. And I'll tell you in two thousand and nine he was so good. I'll never forget Gene. I never told you this. Right before Game six, we're sitting in the training room, about an hour before the game, Andy pettit's on the mound. We need one more win to be World champions. And I wasn't seeing the ball very well off Page Martinez. And it's about an hour before the game, and I have Jeene taping my ankles and he's taeping his ankles Stevie Donald, he was taping his ankles or two trainers with the Yankees, And I said, what's your game plan? Mantsoui, And he says, I have a good game plan. I said, I don't I don't see the ball very well off Pedro Martinez. I said, how do you see it? He says, I see it really, really large. And it was at that moment that I changed my game plan to say, Matsui's behind me, he sees the ball. Great, I don't see the ball well, off Pedro. What I'm going to do is I'm going to be as patient as possible and try to pass the baton to the guy who sees the ball really well. And sure enough, I think I walked three times, score three runs, and twice from Matsui on a home run in a double wow, and the rest is history.
Can I just say that, Alex, you played a pretty big part in getting that two thousand and nine World Series, So you know, I, just as you're saying he was a big part of it, you are an extremely large part of.
That as well.
So thank you, and so Jane, this has been sort of written about it and talked about obviously of late with Joheotani tell us about what Japan means to the global business of baseball, what it means to the Yankees. It feels massively influential financially you would understand that better than anyone, so so help us frame it.
I think two things about Nomo.
When he first came, remember that was just right after the ninety four strike, when fans were disgusted with baseball. They were disgusted with the owners, discussed with the players, they wanted nothing to do with anything. And I really feel that Nomo brought fans back into the ballpark. And then the other thing is that I think that Nomo actually made Major League Baseball international because before then, I know, Alex, you were just a wee baby. You may not remember this, but before then international there really wasn't any international. I mean, obviously clubs were very active in the Dominican Republic, but there really wasn't broadcasting and merchandising. And as Alex said, baseball is huge in Japan, I mean absolutely huge. So when he came to the Dodgers, I mean, oh my god, the Dodgers were just I mean the amount of money he was making for them, and for Major League Baseball International, they just had to bring it in wheelbarrows. So they are very supportive of their players. Initially not so much. Initially they feel that when they come over here, they're portraying the pump professional baseball and abandoning baseball there. But once they come here, they have so much success. It's like carrying the pride of Japan on their shoulders. And obviously, you know, sponsorships come with that, broadcasting comes with that, and then other young Japanese players.
See this and dream of playing in the major leagues.
And so it's expanded the market dramatically for broadcasting. And I think it's great for the game. I mean, international baseball is great for the game of baseball.
And what about for the Yankees. I mean, the Yankees are a massive brand. They're one of the most valuable teams on the planet in any sport. But how do you take advantage of that? I mean, this is part of your remit as I understand, is like understanding how the Yankees brand and how the Yankee business can work across Asia.
Right.
Well, I'm not in the sponsorship and marketing department, but but you know, we had all kinds of ideas at the time of how to exploit is.
Such a bad take advantage of.
Connotation, but the good side of exploit.
We had all kinds of ideas of how to exploit this you know we're going to do streaming right after the game. The sheer demand for access to Matsui and the Yankees was enormous. And in two thousand and four, Alex, you were on that trip.
Ruh, Yes, yeah, we played the Rays, I believe.
Yes, we played the Rays to open the season in Japan, and I mean the fans were crazy and they were just crazy. They would drive up on the sidewalk, you know, to get to our superstars and that was a great trip.
So, Geen, I want to transition to the late George Steinbrenner, which both you and I have an incredible admiration for him. And to think that he bought this franchise for ten point seven million dollars in nineteen seventy three, I believe from ABC is wild. He did something that was not so popular at the time, putting someone like yourself in a very powerful position. And Susan Waldman, I mean incredible for him to do that ahead of his time. What have you learned? What did you learn from George Steinberner and what lessons do you still apply that you have today that you carry on?
Oh wow, Well remember George and Brian Cashman, also Kim ang was my predecessor's. So the only owner and general manager in all of professional sports have not one, but two female assistant general managers. And I always tell people, and Alex, you probably probably say the same thing. Everything good and everything bad. You ever heard about mister Steinberger, It's all true. No, he was larger than life. He was legendary. He was he should be in the Hall of Fame, extraordinarily disciplined. You know, it was all about the team. The players had to have everything. And I think Alex, I don't know if you remember when it was raining, he would get really pissed off at Robbie Kakuza, the clubhouse manager, because you wanted every player to have a little cloth to wipe their bat off with, and if there was a rain delay, there should be mattresses in the clubhouse. You know, it was all for the players. I think he was the first owner to provide omelets, you know, for Sunday brunch for all the players.
But I think what I learned from him is always be prepared. I mean we would go into meetings.
And he had an unerring sense of what you didn't know, so you'd go in prepared for the meeting and then he'd ask you that one thing, that one thing that you didn't know. But early on I learned that I would say, I don't I don't know that. I don't have the answer to that, but I will go and get the answer and come back. Yeah, before I came to the Yankees, i'd call him George. When I came to the Yankees, I'd call him mister Steinbrenner. So he said, whenever anybody's.
Is that right?
But I never call him the boss because that's Bruce Springsteen. I just want to make that.
You know, a lot of the old timers at the Yankees, you know we miss him.
At the time, we didn't and Gene along the same lines, I'll never forget in the World Series when he went into the Shay Stadium and said this furniture is not good enough and he literally had Robbie Gokuza change it. Oh yeah, it was unbelievable. But one quick question on what is the biggest difference. I think how has done an extraordinary job with what he's doing today and the resources spending and the commitment level, just like George. What would you say is the difference between George versus How For our listeners.
Well, part of it you hit on listening.
Hal is a rational, reasonable, smart man who it's kind of ironic because if he doesn't know the answer or the subject matter, he will learn it.
He goes to the players, talks with.
Them, asks their opinion, ask the opinion of everybody in the organization. Hal is a I would say, a very enlightened leader, whereas George was more slightly dictator ish.
We love that.
Because you know what you were getting. Yeah, and it's generational.
You know. Hal's a different kind of leader. He's a I mean, George would be out of this would not be his time period. Some of the things he said and did, Oh my lord, there would be so many lawsuits, but.
Fair to say. And talked to us about Brian Cashman.
I mean, this is a partnership that you've been involved in for you know, now multiple decades. He obviously has a probably as high a profile, if not higher, than just about anyone in the business of baseball, maybe even across sports. He is extremely well known. Talk to us about your partnership with him, And I know Alex sort of witnessed it, but I'm curious how you see it.
I had met.
Brian when I was representing players and we got along. We got along, and then when he asked me to be his assistant general manager, I thought I'd be there for a couple of years. My first contract was two years plus a club option. I thought I'd be right back in California after that. But Brian is remarkable. I mean, people say, the hardest job, you know, is being the general manager of the New York Yankees. And they asked him, like, what's the hardest job you ever had or what's the messiest job? And he said, well, you know, cleaning out horse stalls in Kentucky is much messier than being the general manager of the New York Yankees. But Alex, you know this, I'm being a Yankee is different than being any as a player, as you know, a coach as a general manager, and he's had to, you know, put together these teams for wow, twenty five thirty years, and it's not always the money that's the thing. And even if you do have a large paycheck, you've got to spend it wisely and you have to have the depth to be able to get through a season.
And he's just remarkable.
He's very even keeled, great sense that Alex knows this great sense of humor, doesn't get flustered like Hal. He's a big listener, gets the advice of everybody in the organization.
And I think that's why he's lasted so long. Is it's that.
And he also, you know it doesn't really have a very big ego. Is also the key.
It's it's really a team effort for him.
Yeah, Geene Brian Cashman has a lot of qualities. One of them is very tough, and you have to be right. You have to be thick skin to play in a market like New York, where yeah, you may have a lot of resources, but the scrutiny is brighter, the lights are brighter, and the expectations are much higher. But in two thousand and nine, I don't know if it was May where we were maybe May June. We were kind of a little bit of a funk and that team didn't get in a lot of funks. But it was early and we weren't playing well, and he flew into Atlanta. We had a players only meeting with Cashman. I think he was gonna scream at us. He didn't scream at us. He was constructive. He said, guys, we got to get better this that the other thing which I don't want to share here. And from that day on we played almost seven to fifty baseball and obviously went on to win the world title. So for me, that was a great sign of not only high level what you have with what he has to do with George and how on the finance side, but the personality and the eq to go into a room of twenty five players and tell us exactly how it is. I think that was a big reason why we won the title in two thousand and nine.
I agree. I think you also hit on something. He always says, you run towards a problem. You don't avoid it, run towards it. And I always joke with him that he doesn't really have a bedside manner with players. Sometimes I refer to players as gardens that need tending. You know, you have to have sometimes a light that's not him. He knew will just and that probably in the meeting he's.
Just no bod right.
He will sit down with the player, and every player knows that I'm not.
Gonna lie to you, I'm not going to bolk at you.
I'm going to I'm going to look you in the eye I'm going to tell you the truth. And there were so many times when George would tell him, you go down there, you scream at those players, you've cut the money, you whatever you need to do, and he would, you know, not his head, and then he would go he wouldn't do that, he would go down he'd have a notebook conversation. I always worry whenever I do an interview and people go, oh, how refreshing, You're so authentic.
I've just embarrassed my mother.
And so Jean, Alex and I are always I think one of the many things we share an interest in is how people manage their careers. And you know, you talked about how how Brian has done it? How have you done it? You know, I mean having this long of a tenure at a single organization, and listen, many people would look and say, it's a dream job.
It's a hard job.
You're at the highest level at you know, one of the most you know, dominant, historic, high expectation organizations in the world. How have you managed it? And and how do you how do you manage a career like that?
Well? I I you know, and once again I'm not I'm not saying this out of any arrogance. But I always want little girls and little boys to see that there are women in these positions in baseball, because if you see it, then you can imagine yourself there.
So when I.
Represented players, I was told that I was the only certified player agent, you know, certified by the MLBPA at the time. And then I was the third woman assistant GM, and for period of time I was the only one, and then my very good friend Miquel Ferreira, my brother I call her, became the assistant GM at the Red Sox. Now there are other women assistant gms. But I was lucky to be at the right place at the right time. So starting in Japanese baseball was just I just happened to be there. And I was lucky to work with Dona Mora. I was lucky to work with Gene Orza Alex.
You remember Jean.
He's just an incredible He was the general counsel of the of the PA and just an incredible smart man, and he kind of took us under his wing. So lucky to work with and for Brian Cashman and George Steinbrenner. So part of it is part of it's me, but part of it's also working with people who can recognize your talent or what you can do, and who allow you to to be your most skilled. It's like, Alex, It's like it's like where you where you're most.
Comfortable in the batting order. You just you know, you want.
People have to give you the opportunity to do your best stuff. And I was lucky that I had people giving me the opportunity to do.
My best stuff.
Geene, I want to I want to press you on one element and almost based on what you said earlier in the conversation, press you and maybe even correct you. Sorry, you know, because you said, you know you're at the right place at the right time with the Japanese baseball piece. But based on what you said earlier, it sounds like that was an opportunity that could be identified by other people. But then you did it, and that does seem to be a difference. You know that you said, Okay, we're going to identify these loopholes and then we're going to figure out what they are going to take advantage of them, and then when they move, we're going to try to So I mean, I dare say I feel like maybe you're not giving yourself enough credit for I mean, that was pioneering and revolutionary at the time and really changed the game, right, I'm not.
Using any false modesty. I mean I was also lucky that I worked with players Nomo and sorran Oni Rabu who really like they put their lives on the line. They could have been out of baseball pumping gas, you know, just their careers could have been over, and they trusted Don and I and I mean, I love the challenge. The challenge was amazing, and we really felt that we were doing something important and it was our version of baseball civil rights, you know, and it was really exciting. And I was probably I wasn't that young, but I was probably you know, I just had the blinders on and I just felt we're doing the right thing and we can't fail.
But I still think I've just been really lucky, really mucky.
Jane, You've been really lucky, but you've been really really good and you're great at your job. I guess I have a two part question for you. One, as a young woman in the world of sports, there weren't a lot of women in the world of sports. A lot of times, many times you were the only woman in the room, which is incredible. But I guess, did you ever have any imposter syndrome? And what do you think is your superpower?
I still have imposter syndrome. I still have imposter syndrome. As a matter of fact, memory is.
Such a funny thing, you know, it's probably the most unreliable thing we have.
So in order to prepare for this podcast, I actually went back and.
Reviewed reviewed everything that I'd done, and I looked up the rules and the posting system and all that, you know, because I figured people are going to listen and go, wow, she doesn't know what the she's talking about. But I did have imposter syndrome a lot. I didn't as a player representative, and I always enjoyed working with players, never had any you know, discrimination from players on the club side. A little bit more maybe, but I was constantly, you know, carrying around the basic Agreement and the Major League rules with me and you know, flipping through it on whenever I could. And if you are the only one in the room, and sometimes I probably said things, you know, just to shock people.
And what is your super power? I know you're trying to avoid, Oh, my superpower?
I guess my superpower is over the years, and as a player, you have to do this. I developed a thicker and thicker and thicker skin, and I think, I hope one of my superpowers is.
That I care so damn much. I just care about my job.
I'm doing well every single day, and I live in fear and dread even now, thirty something years later, that on any.
Given day, well, Jeane, you're not. You're doing a terrible job of talking about your super power. So I'll do it for you. O God, you do not no, honestly, like we were together for you know, parts of fifteen years, maybe a little bit more. And I watched your career. I studied your career through thick and thin. You're always fair and you're always honest, and in many ways you have been a role model to me because you always handled yourself in such a regal manner. And I come from a single mother, and watching you, I can just see my mother up there and be the only woman in the room. I just think is an extraordinary thing. And I know, I know there there'll be hundreds, if not thousands of young women that will look at you as a role model and will study your career.
Alex, thank you so much. That's a really lovely thing to say. I'm going to need a recording of this. I'm gonna play it every morning, Good morning before I start my day.
Your affirmation. All right, So we're gonna move to our lightning round. This is just five questions. We're gonna do it real quick. Alex now bounced back and forth and just you know, say whatever jumps into your mind.
All right, you ready?
Oh god, Okay.
What's the best piece of advice you've ever received on deal making or business?
No substitute for the written word.
What's your dream deal making partner?
Well, Brian Cashman, what's the most nervous you've ever been?
I can't say now right now.
The most nervous I've ever been? You know what the first time I walked into court when I was litigating.
What's your hype song before a big meeting or negotiation?
Dammit, dammit.
It's an Australian band and I can never think of the name. But it's an Australian band. It's an Australian band. I can't think of the name though.
Yeah, how does it go? Sing it?
Oh?
I can't behind it.
I do have a I mean I have a quote.
I have a quote, that's my right that.
I have two quotes that I always say, and they're from Lady Macbeth, who's.
Not really a role model for anybody. But one is that if you screw your courage.
To the sticking post, you can't fail. And the other, which actually isn't from Lady Macbeth, but I used to tell myself turn your blood to ice.
And your blood to ice. Turn your blood to ice, and then walk in. My mother taught me something.
She said, whenever you walk into a meeting, you have to tell yourself, you know these affirmations, I'm smart, I'm this, I'm that, and then your last your last word to yourself is and I have a secret.
So if you walk in and I have a secret, everybody just is like, what is what is going on there? What is happening there?
WHOA that is really good?
I have a secret.
That's really good.
All right?
So what's your advice for someone listening who wants a career like yours, which is unmatched?
You know what? And then, once again I hope this doesn't sound sappy.
Education, education, education, and put the blinders on, do the work, do it well.
Don't let anybody tell you you can't do it, and just you know, move forward. You can do anything if you use your mind.
And I realized that that may be disingenuous because a lot of people don't have an opportunity for an education, and a lot of people don't have, you know, opportunities come their way. But I would say that that even if you're not going to get paid, which I wasn't paid early in my baseball career, whatever you can do, if a job comes your way, take it and then make yourself indispensable.
That's really good.
Well, I have to say there have been a lot of text flying back and forth between me and Alex in anticipation of this one, Gene, and you really delivered and then some so thank you so much for spending some time with us.
It was a real treat to see the two of you chop it up.
Thank you, Gene.
I'm so honored that you asked me. I'm so honored, and Alex. It's great to be working together again, the same team again.
I know.
I'm so happy. Thank you.
Thanks a lot, gentlemen, Thank you very much.
The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and me Jason Kelly This episode was made by Annamasarekus, Stacey Wong, and Lizzie Phillip. Amy Keene is our editor. Music is made by Blake Maples. Our executive producers are Kelly Leferrier, Ashley Hoenig, and Brenda Nonham. Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. Additional support from Rachel Carnivale and Elena sos Angeles. Thanks so much for listening to the deal. If you have a minute, subscribe, rate and review our show. It'll help other listeners find us. I'm Jason Kelly. See you next week.