Steve Manuchin service Treasury Secretary under Donald Trump's first term. Today he's running a global private equity firm. I had a chance recently to sit down with Steve Manuchen to talk about his days as Treasury secretary, the investment environment, and the global economy. So you served as the seventy seventh Secretary of the Treasury when President Trump was reelected. Did you say maybe I want to go back in again or you.

Steve Manuchin service Treasury Secretary under Donald Trump's first term. Today he's running a global private equity firm. I had a chance recently to sit down with Steve Manuchen to talk about his days as Treasury secretary, the investment environment, and the global economy. So you served as the seventy seventh Secretary of the Treasury when President Trump was reelected. Did you say maybe I want to go back in again or you.

Had enough government service?

Had enough government service?

Well, it was an extraordinary experience working for him and being part of the whole first campaign. And now I'm really focused on private investments and opportunities. But I am trying to help from the outside.

Well, it was an extraordinary experience working for him and being part of the whole first campaign. And now I'm really focused on private investments and opportunities. But I am trying to help from the outside.

So you're not going to go back in anytime soon.

So you're not going to go back in anytime soon.

I'm happy doing what I'm doing and giving a little coaching from the outside.

I'm happy doing what I'm doing and giving a little coaching from the outside.

You know, you served for four years, and President Trump, to my knowledge, never criticized you in public.

You know, you served for four years, and President Trump, to my knowledge, never criticized you in public.

I don't know about private, but.

I don't know about private, but.

You know, so to be four years and never be criticized in public, that was pretty impressive.

You know, so to be four years and never be criticized in public, that was pretty impressive.

So what's the secret. Have you told the new Secretary of Treasure what to do?

So what's the secret. Have you told the new Secretary of Treasure what to do?

I haven't told him what to do. I think he's in very good shape. Look I understood the President's agenda. I had the opportunity to help shape the economic agenda, and we were proud of what we did.

I haven't told him what to do. I think he's in very good shape. Look I understood the President's agenda. I had the opportunity to help shape the economic agenda, and we were proud of what we did.

The first term.

The first term.

We were focused on tax cuts, getting the biggest tax cuts done, trade and regulatory relief, and I'm excited to see them focused on it again.

We were focused on tax cuts, getting the biggest tax cuts done, trade and regulatory relief, and I'm excited to see them focused on it again.

So how do you think the tariffs are going to affect the economy? Why does President Trump like tariffs so much?

So how do you think the tariffs are going to affect the economy? Why does President Trump like tariffs so much?

The President's been very focused on tariffs for a long time, and he fundamentally believes it's a good source of revenue and that it's impactful in getting people to change behavior, and that's what we're seeing today.

The President's been very focused on tariffs for a long time, and he fundamentally believes it's a good source of revenue and that it's impactful in getting people to change behavior, and that's what we're seeing today.

You think that tariffs will be ultimately good for the US economy.

You think that tariffs will be ultimately good for the US economy.

I assume you have a similar view.

I assume you have a similar view.

Well, I think the market really wants certainty and understanding certainty adjust to whatever they are. I think the problem right now is we don't have certainty. My own view on the tariffs would be that if he wants to do something, I like the idea of the ten percent tariff across the board, it's a consumption tax on foreign goods. But if you were to do that, he should do that through the reconciliation process. So that can be scored, I think would raise about two and a half trillion dollars and could be used to pay for tax cuts.

Well, I think the market really wants certainty and understanding certainty adjust to whatever they are. I think the problem right now is we don't have certainty. My own view on the tariffs would be that if he wants to do something, I like the idea of the ten percent tariff across the board, it's a consumption tax on foreign goods. But if you were to do that, he should do that through the reconciliation process. So that can be scored, I think would raise about two and a half trillion dollars and could be used to pay for tax cuts.

As an example, speaking of tax cuts, you engineered with President Trump the very large tax cut of his first term. Do you think a similar size tax cut is essential now?

As an example, speaking of tax cuts, you engineered with President Trump the very large tax cut of his first term. Do you think a similar size tax cut is essential now?

Well, the biggest focus for them is just extending the personal side of the tax cuts which are going to expire, and I think that that was a signature part of his first term, and I think that's got to be the priority to continue now. On top of that, I know he wants to do additional tax cuts and that'll be a little bit more challenge with the pay force.

Well, the biggest focus for them is just extending the personal side of the tax cuts which are going to expire, and I think that that was a signature part of his first term, and I think that's got to be the priority to continue now. On top of that, I know he wants to do additional tax cuts and that'll be a little bit more challenge with the pay force.

Or during the campaign, he talked about a couple other tax cuts. One is no tax on tips. Are people getting tips actually paying a lot of taxes?

Or during the campaign, he talked about a couple other tax cuts. One is no tax on tips. Are people getting tips actually paying a lot of taxes?

I don't know.

I don't know.

You know, we're not in as much as a cash society as we used to, so there's a lot of tips that go through an electronic mechanism. I think if he wants to have a small carve out for tax on tips.

You know, we're not in as much as a cash society as we used to, so there's a lot of tips that go through an electronic mechanism. I think if he wants to have a small carve out for tax on tips.

I think that makes sense.

I think that makes sense.

I think obviously, if you start giving tips to investment bankers at the end of the year instead of bonuses and they don't get tax that would be a little bit more problematic. And you know, you could tax your lawyers, and so I think if he does that, it needs to have a small carve out.

I think obviously, if you start giving tips to investment bankers at the end of the year instead of bonuses and they don't get tax that would be a little bit more problematic. And you know, you could tax your lawyers, and so I think if he does that, it needs to have a small carve out.

When you were working on the tax cut, when you were Secretary of Treategy, how did you find the intellectual level of the ways and means committee members?

When you were working on the tax cut, when you were Secretary of Treategy, how did you find the intellectual level of the ways and means committee members?

You know, when we passed the tax cuts, and this was a lot of work, we were very engaged with both the House and Senate, and actually we had weekly meetings which was called the Big Six. It was me and Gary Cohne from the White House, it was the Senate, and it was the House, and literally every week we sat.

You know, when we passed the tax cuts, and this was a lot of work, we were very engaged with both the House and Senate, and actually we had weekly meetings which was called the Big Six. It was me and Gary Cohne from the White House, it was the Senate, and it was the House, and literally every week we sat.

Down and went through details.

Down and went through details.

So I mean, as you know, I mean, we had sweeping tax reform across everything. This time it is actually a lot simpler. But I do think Secretary Bessett needs to be very focused on working with the House and the Senate to get this across the finish line.

So I mean, as you know, I mean, we had sweeping tax reform across everything. This time it is actually a lot simpler. But I do think Secretary Bessett needs to be very focused on working with the House and the Senate to get this across the finish line.

In recent decades, the annual deficit has been fairly high. I think under President Trump's first four years, I think it was maybe six to eight trillion dollars of additional debt added to the total debt.

In recent decades, the annual deficit has been fairly high. I think under President Trump's first four years, I think it was maybe six to eight trillion dollars of additional debt added to the total debt.

We have that thirty six trillion.

We have that thirty six trillion.

Now, how are we going to get the debt down and the deficit down if we have these big tax cuts.

Now, how are we going to get the debt down and the deficit down if we have these big tax cuts.

Well, David, let me just say I think the deficit is probably the most important issue today in terms of the long term.

Well, David, let me just say I think the deficit is probably the most important issue today in terms of the long term.

Impact on the economy.

Impact on the economy.

And just to put this in perspective, in the first term, we had debt to GDP ratio of about an hundred percent, and with the tax cuts and economic growth before COVID, we were growing the economy faster than we were growing the debt, so that that ratio would have come down, and I think we were trying to get it down to ninety to ninety five. The big focus on the first term was military spending. We unfortunately had to increase non military spending to get it through the House and Senate. But what really impacted us was COVID, and I think as you know firsthand, you know, we had to spend a lot of money in COVID or we would have had a worldwide depression, not recession. I think the problem was, you know, the first two trillion dollars was well spent, the next two trillion we never should have spent. And then the Biden administration kept on spending. So you know, we have debt to GDP of close to one hundred and twenty five percent today. That's a gigantic problem. Secretary Besant has talked about getting the deficit down from six percent to three percent of GDP and that's got to be a major folks. So if we're going to do the tax cuts, we need to make sure there's pay for us, and we need to make sure there's economic growth.

And just to put this in perspective, in the first term, we had debt to GDP ratio of about an hundred percent, and with the tax cuts and economic growth before COVID, we were growing the economy faster than we were growing the debt, so that that ratio would have come down, and I think we were trying to get it down to ninety to ninety five. The big focus on the first term was military spending. We unfortunately had to increase non military spending to get it through the House and Senate. But what really impacted us was COVID, and I think as you know firsthand, you know, we had to spend a lot of money in COVID or we would have had a worldwide depression, not recession. I think the problem was, you know, the first two trillion dollars was well spent, the next two trillion we never should have spent. And then the Biden administration kept on spending. So you know, we have debt to GDP of close to one hundred and twenty five percent today. That's a gigantic problem. Secretary Besant has talked about getting the deficit down from six percent to three percent of GDP and that's got to be a major folks. So if we're going to do the tax cuts, we need to make sure there's pay for us, and we need to make sure there's economic growth.

When Bob Rubin was Secretary of the Treasury, he once talked about the value of the dollar, and he made a mistake, he later would say, by talking about saying something other than we want a strong dollar. And now every Treasury secretary is told you can only say one thing about the dollar. We want a strong dollar. But what can former secretaries and Treasury say about that? Can they say we want a strong dollar? Can you say maybe it should weaken a little bit and to make it our exports easier to sell.

When Bob Rubin was Secretary of the Treasury, he once talked about the value of the dollar, and he made a mistake, he later would say, by talking about saying something other than we want a strong dollar. And now every Treasury secretary is told you can only say one thing about the dollar. We want a strong dollar. But what can former secretaries and Treasury say about that? Can they say we want a strong dollar? Can you say maybe it should weaken a little bit and to make it our exports easier to sell.

Well, you know, it's funny that you say that, And Bob really was kind of credited with the strong dollar policy, and I think it's kind of every Treasury secretary after that kind of you know, you got Treasury one oh one training, and the first thing they told you was just talk about a strong dollar.

Well, you know, it's funny that you say that, And Bob really was kind of credited with the strong dollar policy, and I think it's kind of every Treasury secretary after that kind of you know, you got Treasury one oh one training, and the first thing they told you was just talk about a strong dollar.

You know.

You know.

Actually, when I was at Davos, I come into it on a balanced, stable dollar as opposed to saying a strong dollar, and all of a sudden, the dollar moved significantly. I think on the long term it is important that we have a strong dollar. The dollar is the reserve currency of the world, and a strong dollar affects a strong economy. In the short term, particularly because of trade, you know, the strength of the dollar can have a negative impact. But I think the most important thing is actually a stable dollar so that there's not volatility.

Actually, when I was at Davos, I come into it on a balanced, stable dollar as opposed to saying a strong dollar, and all of a sudden, the dollar moved significantly. I think on the long term it is important that we have a strong dollar. The dollar is the reserve currency of the world, and a strong dollar affects a strong economy. In the short term, particularly because of trade, you know, the strength of the dollar can have a negative impact. But I think the most important thing is actually a stable dollar so that there's not volatility.

Speaking of stable, what do you think about the Secretary of Treasury or the US government supporting cryptocurrencies. They didn't really have them so much when you were Secretary of Treasury, but now cryptocurrencies seem to be very heavily supported by President Trump and his administration.

Speaking of stable, what do you think about the Secretary of Treasury or the US government supporting cryptocurrencies. They didn't really have them so much when you were Secretary of Treasury, but now cryptocurrencies seem to be very heavily supported by President Trump and his administration.

Do you have any comment on whether that's a good or bad thing.

Do you have any comment on whether that's a good or bad thing.

Look, my view on crypto has been pretty consistent. We did a lot of work on this in the first term. If people want to buy crypto as an asset class like they.

Look, my view on crypto has been pretty consistent. We did a lot of work on this in the first term. If people want to buy crypto as an asset class like they.

Buy gold, that's fine to me.

Buy gold, that's fine to me.

The bigger issue has been making sure that crypto is not used for illicit activities. And you know, we spent a long time getting rid of Swiss numbered bank accounts, making sure that we have a mechanism that crypto can be compliant with BSA and all of our money laundering regulations. And I have concerns today about that.

The bigger issue has been making sure that crypto is not used for illicit activities. And you know, we spent a long time getting rid of Swiss numbered bank accounts, making sure that we have a mechanism that crypto can be compliant with BSA and all of our money laundering regulations. And I have concerns today about that.

You know, in the business world, investment world, if you hire more fundraisers, you usually raise more money. In the IRS world, if you get more agents, you usually raise more money. But for some reason, the Republican Party seems to want to have fewer agents, and therefore they reduce the number of agents, and therefore maybe they're not going to raise as much money. Do you have a view on whether cutting back the IRS agents that were put in under a President Biden is a good thing to do or not.

You know, in the business world, investment world, if you hire more fundraisers, you usually raise more money. In the IRS world, if you get more agents, you usually raise more money. But for some reason, the Republican Party seems to want to have fewer agents, and therefore they reduce the number of agents, and therefore maybe they're not going to raise as much money. Do you have a view on whether cutting back the IRS agents that were put in under a President Biden is a good thing to do or not.

I actually don't think we need more agents. What we need is a bigger investment in technology. In the IRS, the systems are outdated, and I think in this day and age, there's a lot we can do with technoloology that we don't need physical agents auditing people.

I actually don't think we need more agents. What we need is a bigger investment in technology. In the IRS, the systems are outdated, and I think in this day and age, there's a lot we can do with technoloology that we don't need physical agents auditing people.

It can be done electronically.

It can be done electronically.

So when you became the Secretary of the Treasury. There was somebody on the Federal Reserve Board who had been appointed by President Obama, James J.

So when you became the Secretary of the Treasury. There was somebody on the Federal Reserve Board who had been appointed by President Obama, James J.

Powell, who used to.

Powell, who used to.

Work at my firm, and then you recommended him to President Trump, I think, to be the chairman of the Federal Reserve. President Trump was not happy with him at the beginning. I guess any regrets about recommending J.

Work at my firm, and then you recommended him to President Trump, I think, to be the chairman of the Federal Reserve. President Trump was not happy with him at the beginning. I guess any regrets about recommending J.

Powe.

Powe.

I do think Jay's done a very good job.

I do think Jay's done a very good job.

You know, as President Trump he had a bunch of issues with him raising rates, but then during COVID he did give him the Most Improved Player Award when he dropped rades down to zero at the time.

You know, as President Trump he had a bunch of issues with him raising rates, but then during COVID he did give him the Most Improved Player Award when he dropped rades down to zero at the time.

So generally the President of the United States is not supposed to talk to or lobby the Chairman of the Fed, but the Secretary of Treasury usually meets regularly with the Chairman of the Fed.

So generally the President of the United States is not supposed to talk to or lobby the Chairman of the Fed, but the Secretary of Treasury usually meets regularly with the Chairman of the Fed.

Did you meet with him fairly regularly? I did.

Did you meet with him fairly regularly? I did.

I mean we inherited a tradition which has been kept up is that the Secretary of the Treasury and the Chairman of the Fed meet weekly. It alternates every week between being at the Treasury and the FED. And I found those meetings very helpful. I mean a big focus was obviously what we were doing on regulation monetary policy. I never talked about monetary policy publicly, but yes, of course we did talk about those types of things. We talked about the economy, and I think we had a very good working relationship.

I mean we inherited a tradition which has been kept up is that the Secretary of the Treasury and the Chairman of the Fed meet weekly. It alternates every week between being at the Treasury and the FED. And I found those meetings very helpful. I mean a big focus was obviously what we were doing on regulation monetary policy. I never talked about monetary policy publicly, but yes, of course we did talk about those types of things. We talked about the economy, and I think we had a very good working relationship.

So today, if you were Jpowe, would you lower interest rates in the next six months or so?

So today, if you were Jpowe, would you lower interest rates in the next six months or so?

I think it's pretty clear the Fed is going to lower rates. So I mean, if you look at the dot plot, which is you know what the Fed governors have publicly said, you do see rates coming down to about three in a quarter, and you see the long term rate at about two point eight. I do think the long term rate between being closer to two and a half than three. And I think we're going to see rates lowered next year. And by the way, I think the ten year has that already built in to the market. So I think we're going to see three and a quarter three and a half percent and funds and I think we'll see about four percent ten year treasuries.

I think it's pretty clear the Fed is going to lower rates. So I mean, if you look at the dot plot, which is you know what the Fed governors have publicly said, you do see rates coming down to about three in a quarter, and you see the long term rate at about two point eight. I do think the long term rate between being closer to two and a half than three. And I think we're going to see rates lowered next year. And by the way, I think the ten year has that already built in to the market. So I think we're going to see three and a quarter three and a half percent and funds and I think we'll see about four percent ten year treasuries.

You left Secretary Treasury and you start a private equity firm, Liberty Strategic Capital. So is private equity as fulfilling as you thought? I know you were in it a bit before you became Secretary of Treasury. But how do you enjoy the private equity world?

You left Secretary Treasury and you start a private equity firm, Liberty Strategic Capital. So is private equity as fulfilling as you thought? I know you were in it a bit before you became Secretary of Treasury. But how do you enjoy the private equity world?

Well, David, you know, I've been in the investment business and the markets businesses now for forty years, and I think kind of every job I did kind of prepared me more for the future. And when I became Treasury as secretary, I think it was helpful that I had a background in markets and risk. I had been CEO of a bank, so that, you know, I understood a lot of these issues. You know, we're small enough that we focus on a handful of investments. We've done about ten investments to date, and you know, I find it very interesting you.

Well, David, you know, I've been in the investment business and the markets businesses now for forty years, and I think kind of every job I did kind of prepared me more for the future. And when I became Treasury as secretary, I think it was helpful that I had a background in markets and risk. I had been CEO of a bank, so that, you know, I understood a lot of these issues. You know, we're small enough that we focus on a handful of investments. We've done about ten investments to date, and you know, I find it very interesting you.

Agree with my view that the highest calling of mankind is private equity.

Agree with my view that the highest calling of mankind is private equity.

I do not. No, you don't think so there's something more important, but I don't know what it is. But okay, I.

I do not. No, you don't think so there's something more important, but I don't know what it is. But okay, I.

Would have thought you were going to tell me the highest calling was to own a baseball team.

Would have thought you were going to tell me the highest calling was to own a baseball team.

If it's a winning team.

If it's a winning team.

Yes, But so let me ask you, Well, one of the pleasures of being Secretary of the Treasury is you get your handwriting on the dollar bill.

Yes, But so let me ask you, Well, one of the pleasures of being Secretary of the Treasury is you get your handwriting on the dollar bill.

Something like that.

Something like that.

Some secretary of Treasures had incomprehensible, indecipherable handwriting and you couldn't figure out who actually was signing it. But what was the pleasure like of getting a bills one hundred dollar bills or dollar bills and having your signature on it?

Some secretary of Treasures had incomprehensible, indecipherable handwriting and you couldn't figure out who actually was signing it. But what was the pleasure like of getting a bills one hundred dollar bills or dollar bills and having your signature on it?

Was that fun or not?

Was that fun or not?

You know, David, I changed my signature because my signature was completely illegible, okay, And I thought, if I'm going to have my signature on the money forever, it would be nice if you could see it and read it. So I simplified my signature a lot.

You know, David, I changed my signature because my signature was completely illegible, okay, And I thought, if I'm going to have my signature on the money forever, it would be nice if you could see it and read it. So I simplified my signature a lot.

I guess the question.

I guess the question.

Is, is you know, I wonder if President Trump wants his signature on the money.

Is, is you know, I wonder if President Trump wants his signature on the money.

One of the most important parts of the Treasury Code IRS code is something called carried interest taxation.

One of the most important parts of the Treasury Code IRS code is something called carried interest taxation.

You're probably familiar with that.

You're probably familiar with that.

I've heard about it a few time times. I heard about it during the first I know.

I've heard about it a few time times. I heard about it during the first I know.

President Trump has never been a big fan of that. I think you know, and I think in this current speeches he's made about he said he wanted to get rid of current I carried interest taxation and whatever benefit sports owners gets as well.

President Trump has never been a big fan of that. I think you know, and I think in this current speeches he's made about he said he wanted to get rid of current I carried interest taxation and whatever benefit sports owners gets as well.

I don't know exactly what they are.

I don't know exactly what they are.

But so do you have a view on carried interest now that you were in the private EQUI world.

But so do you have a view on carried interest now that you were in the private EQUI world.

One of the issues, as you know, on carried interest, is if you have two investors and we invested. You know, if I invested fifty percent, you invested fifty percent, we'd need to pay a.

One of the issues, as you know, on carried interest, is if you have two investors and we invested. You know, if I invested fifty percent, you invested fifty percent, we'd need to pay a.

Certain amount to tax to the extent in it.

Certain amount to tax to the extent in it.

You create a fund and we decide as opposed to it being fifty to fifty, we're going to exchange profits. It doesn't change the tax that the government collects. So I think from an academic standpoint, you know there's a reason behind this. From a revenue standpoint, that'll have to be something that Congress looks at.

You create a fund and we decide as opposed to it being fifty to fifty, we're going to exchange profits. It doesn't change the tax that the government collects. So I think from an academic standpoint, you know there's a reason behind this. From a revenue standpoint, that'll have to be something that Congress looks at.

What is the biggest pleasure you've gotten out of having a private equity fund? Now you raised the fund, You've made a number of investments. Are you enjoying us as much as being Secretary of treasurer or being a partner at Goldman Sachs or not as much?

What is the biggest pleasure you've gotten out of having a private equity fund? Now you raised the fund, You've made a number of investments. Are you enjoying us as much as being Secretary of treasurer or being a partner at Goldman Sachs or not as much?

I mean, David, all these experiences were really extraordinary. I mean, what I find interesting about this is investing in businesses and being able to impact certain businesses. You know, I've had a long experience in banking. We made a big investment that we bailed out and saved what was a Flagstar bank, it was called New York Community Bank at the time, and you know, banking is something that's been very interesting to me.

I mean, David, all these experiences were really extraordinary. I mean, what I find interesting about this is investing in businesses and being able to impact certain businesses. You know, I've had a long experience in banking. We made a big investment that we bailed out and saved what was a Flagstar bank, it was called New York Community Bank at the time, and you know, banking is something that's been very interesting to me.

So this is the second time I did this.

So this is the second time I did this.

Now, President Trump and his administration are very focused on the trade deficit, which is very, very high these days. But is the trade deficit that big a problem compared to the budget deficit? If you were to worry about which deficit, wouldn't be budget deficit be more important than the trade deficit.

Now, President Trump and his administration are very focused on the trade deficit, which is very, very high these days. But is the trade deficit that big a problem compared to the budget deficit? If you were to worry about which deficit, wouldn't be budget deficit be more important than the trade deficit.

Well, as you said, we have what's called the twin deficits. In my opinion, the budget deficited two trillion dollars annually is a.

Well, as you said, we have what's called the twin deficits. In my opinion, the budget deficited two trillion dollars annually is a.

Much bigger problem.

Much bigger problem.

And I think, by the way, if you brought down the budget deficit, by definition, you'd bring down the trade deficit because you'd have less demand for goods in general. And I do think the idea of resetting trade relationships. I mean, President Trump is right that the US market has been open for foreign trade and foreign markets have not been opened in the same way.

And I think, by the way, if you brought down the budget deficit, by definition, you'd bring down the trade deficit because you'd have less demand for goods in general. And I do think the idea of resetting trade relationships. I mean, President Trump is right that the US market has been open for foreign trade and foreign markets have not been opened in the same way.

You know, we spent a.

You know, we spent a.

Lot of time with China on the Phase one deal. They haven't lived up to that. But the whole idea was if we could allow access to our business to a growing China middle class.

Lot of time with China on the Phase one deal. They haven't lived up to that. But the whole idea was if we could allow access to our business to a growing China middle class.

That's an enormous opportunity for US business.

That's an enormous opportunity for US business.

And I do think kind of a big part of the trade deficit is we don't have fair trade in both directions.

And I do think kind of a big part of the trade deficit is we don't have fair trade in both directions.

Now, President Trump has made a big push on getting American companies and foreign companies to invest in the United States manufacturer things that would probably be somewhat inflationary because by definition, if you have people produce things overseas, probably because it's the lowest cost producer, if you bring them back the United States with higher labor costs, it'll be a higher cost production, therefore maybe more inflationary. Despite that, you think it's a good idea to have more things manufacturing United States.

Now, President Trump has made a big push on getting American companies and foreign companies to invest in the United States manufacturer things that would probably be somewhat inflationary because by definition, if you have people produce things overseas, probably because it's the lowest cost producer, if you bring them back the United States with higher labor costs, it'll be a higher cost production, therefore maybe more inflationary. Despite that, you think it's a good idea to have more things manufacturing United States.

Well, I definitely think US manufacturing jobs has always been a big focus of his. I think, you know, there was a large part of the economy that was left behind, and I do think that's a focus now. Obviously, there are different markets that can be competitive, so I think we can have the same thing, but his focus should be US investment.

Well, I definitely think US manufacturing jobs has always been a big focus of his. I think, you know, there was a large part of the economy that was left behind, and I do think that's a focus now. Obviously, there are different markets that can be competitive, so I think we can have the same thing, but his focus should be US investment.

In your view, is Congress likely to deal with the budget deficit in a way where we won't have to deal with the government shutting down. Do you think that's a real risk that the government could shut down again.

In your view, is Congress likely to deal with the budget deficit in a way where we won't have to deal with the government shutting down. Do you think that's a real risk that the government could shut down again.

Look, I'd say, you know, there's two issues that again that I spent a lot of time on, both the debt ceiling and government funding. So as Treasury, we could have the money and not be able to spend it right because of government funding, or we could have the government funding but not have enough money because of the dead ceiling.

Look, I'd say, you know, there's two issues that again that I spent a lot of time on, both the debt ceiling and government funding. So as Treasury, we could have the money and not be able to spend it right because of government funding, or we could have the government funding but not have enough money because of the dead ceiling.

My major focus was the dead.

My major focus was the dead.

Ceiling, and one of the things I think now is the most important issue is the Republicans need to get the dead ceiling into a reconciliation bill quickly and raise the dead ceiling.

Ceiling, and one of the things I think now is the most important issue is the Republicans need to get the dead ceiling into a reconciliation bill quickly and raise the dead ceiling.

In nineteen seventeen, the death ceiling was first imposed, and we've now raised it more than ninety times. President Trump has said before we should get rid of the dead ceiling, and we're the only country in the world with one other than Denmark. So what is your view on do we need a dead ceiling because we can we changed it all the time anyway, or should we just keep the dead ceiling.

In nineteen seventeen, the death ceiling was first imposed, and we've now raised it more than ninety times. President Trump has said before we should get rid of the dead ceiling, and we're the only country in the world with one other than Denmark. So what is your view on do we need a dead ceiling because we can we changed it all the time anyway, or should we just keep the dead ceiling.

Well, given the side of the debt that we have today and the focus on the debt, I would keep the dead ceiling. I think it's an important mechanism. It's become too political, but I think spending and the dead ceiling should be passed at the same time. So whenever Congress passed is whatever the spending is, they should simultaneously pass the debt ceiling so that you can afford to pay for that. But I don't think, you know, unlimited spending is a good thing. As I mentioned earlier, you know COVID, we had to do trillion dollars spending. We then got spending out of control, and we need to get that back into control.

Well, given the side of the debt that we have today and the focus on the debt, I would keep the dead ceiling. I think it's an important mechanism. It's become too political, but I think spending and the dead ceiling should be passed at the same time. So whenever Congress passed is whatever the spending is, they should simultaneously pass the debt ceiling so that you can afford to pay for that. But I don't think, you know, unlimited spending is a good thing. As I mentioned earlier, you know COVID, we had to do trillion dollars spending. We then got spending out of control, and we need to get that back into control.

Now.

Now.

Many countries around the world have something called a sovereign wealth fund, and the United States doesn't have that. We have the printing press, we print dollars and people buy those dollars, but we don't have.

Many countries around the world have something called a sovereign wealth fund, and the United States doesn't have that. We have the printing press, we print dollars and people buy those dollars, but we don't have.

A sovereign wealth fund.

A sovereign wealth fund.

President Trump has signed an executive order I think, creating a sovereign wealth fund. Where would the money come from for that sovereign wealth fund?

President Trump has signed an executive order I think, creating a sovereign wealth fund. Where would the money come from for that sovereign wealth fund?

Well, David, as you know, most countries that have sovereign wealth funds are because they have certain resources today that are going to be limited.

Well, David, as you know, most countries that have sovereign wealth funds are because they have certain resources today that are going to be limited.

Obviously, oil and energy.

Obviously, oil and energy.

Is a big focus, and the purpose of the sovereign wealth fund is to capture a huge amount of those revenues today so that it can be spent over generations.

Is a big focus, and the purpose of the sovereign wealth fund is to capture a huge amount of those revenues today so that it can be spent over generations.

The US is not in that situation.

The US is not in that situation.

So if we're going to have a sovereign wealth fund, I think obviously we'd have to borrow to put the money in the sovereign wealth fund since we don't have a surplus. And if we did that, I think you should be very limited in scope. For are there certain areas that we need government support, It shouldn't be used, obviously to crowd out private investments.

So if we're going to have a sovereign wealth fund, I think obviously we'd have to borrow to put the money in the sovereign wealth fund since we don't have a surplus. And if we did that, I think you should be very limited in scope. For are there certain areas that we need government support, It shouldn't be used, obviously to crowd out private investments.

The third rail of American politics is thought to be the social Security system and medicare. Some people say, ultimately we were running out of money to fund the social Security system because people are living longer and so forth, and we have more people retiring and then living longer. Are you worried about the security of the subsecurity system.

The third rail of American politics is thought to be the social Security system and medicare. Some people say, ultimately we were running out of money to fund the social Security system because people are living longer and so forth, and we have more people retiring and then living longer. Are you worried about the security of the subsecurity system.

David, One of the big titles I had in government was managing Trustee of the Social Security Trust Fund. And when I got there, I thought I actually could do a lot of good. And one of the things I was actually very focused on social securities. Still has paper cards, and I thought, one of the most ridiculous thing is the social Security number is the identifier most people use. I wanted to focus on creating electronic ID and I think that's still something we should do now. As it relates to the Trust Fund, we did sure report every year the trust Fund is going to run out of money, and I think it's something that Congress has to deal with. I hope that in the second half of the president's term he can focus on Social Security reform because it's a problem. The fund is going to run out of money and there's lots of people who rely upon it, so it needs to be fixed.

David, One of the big titles I had in government was managing Trustee of the Social Security Trust Fund. And when I got there, I thought I actually could do a lot of good. And one of the things I was actually very focused on social securities. Still has paper cards, and I thought, one of the most ridiculous thing is the social Security number is the identifier most people use. I wanted to focus on creating electronic ID and I think that's still something we should do now. As it relates to the Trust Fund, we did sure report every year the trust Fund is going to run out of money, and I think it's something that Congress has to deal with. I hope that in the second half of the president's term he can focus on Social Security reform because it's a problem. The fund is going to run out of money and there's lots of people who rely upon it, so it needs to be fixed.

Bismark. I think it used to said that the two things you don't want to see being made are sausage and legislation. And what is it like when you're doing tax bills. You're sitting in a smoke filled room and you're sitting there with the members of Congress and they say, I'll give you this, and you give me this, and how does that really work?

Bismark. I think it used to said that the two things you don't want to see being made are sausage and legislation. And what is it like when you're doing tax bills. You're sitting in a smoke filled room and you're sitting there with the members of Congress and they say, I'll give you this, and you give me this, and how does that really work?

You know, we worked very closely with the House and Senate. These are huge, complicated issues. Of course, there have to be trade offs. You have to think of how they were paid for us. I mean, when we did this the first time, it was a trillion and a half dollars static, trillion dollars dynamic, and we had about five hundred billion in what we considered to be baseline issues. So of course there have to be trade offs, and then I would just comment on even once tax reform was passed, we spent the next year writing tax regulations and treasury which is a very important function to institute the law.

You know, we worked very closely with the House and Senate. These are huge, complicated issues. Of course, there have to be trade offs. You have to think of how they were paid for us. I mean, when we did this the first time, it was a trillion and a half dollars static, trillion dollars dynamic, and we had about five hundred billion in what we considered to be baseline issues. So of course there have to be trade offs, and then I would just comment on even once tax reform was passed, we spent the next year writing tax regulations and treasury which is a very important function to institute the law.

So, if you were king for today and you can make any change in the way the economy, the finance structured the United States is based, the spending is done, what would be the one thing that you think we should do to make our economy better or make our financial system better than it is today.

So, if you were king for today and you can make any change in the way the economy, the finance structured the United States is based, the spending is done, what would be the one thing that you think we should do to make our economy better or make our financial system better than it is today.

One thing I would reform the spending process and the debt sealing process so that there was a real process of the administration having a budget, that budget going through Congress every year, and that kind of the focus around spending.

One thing I would reform the spending process and the debt sealing process so that there was a real process of the administration having a budget, that budget going through Congress every year, and that kind of the focus around spending.

Okay, so for the time being, you're going to be in the private sector, You're not going to be drafted back in the government, and you're happy with the highest calling of mankind that you're now pursuing private equity.

Okay, so for the time being, you're going to be in the private sector, You're not going to be drafted back in the government, and you're happy with the highest calling of mankind that you're now pursuing private equity.

Right, the highest calling was serving the people in the environment.

Right, the highest calling was serving the people in the environment.

I know you think this is the highest.

I know you think this is the highest.

Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews. You can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen

Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews. You can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen