Hey everybody, and welcome to another edition of the Dave Pash Podcast. I'm your host ESPN and Arizona Cardinals announcer Dave Pash. My guest this week is Mike Golik, one of the top broadcasters of all time. He's in the Radio Broadcasting Hall of Fame for the terrific show that he did all those years for ESPN with Mike Greenberg, simply known as Mike and Mike. Golik is still going strong in broadcasting, whether it's calling games, hosting a podcast, appearing on television. We're going to get into that along with his thoughts on the Cardinals opponent this week, Philadelphia. Jalen Hurts. Jalen has been fantastic. Now, Jalen's not going to be a forty touchdown guy, but if he can get in like to the low twenties and touchdown to mid twenties and keep it at single digit interceptions with the running game they have going in the defense, they can go far. We are presented by bet MGM, the official sports betting partner of the Arizona Cardinals, and by Hila River Resorts and Casinos. Get ready for a football season like never before with betmgm, an official partner of the Arizona Cardinals. Sign up today using code cards one thousand and get your first bet risk free up to one thousand dollars. Visit betmgm dot comfer terms and conditions twenty one and over Arizona only. Please gamble responsibly. Gambling problem called one eight hundred. Next step All right, Time to talk with former Philadelphia Eagle and a broadcasting legend, Mike Golick. Well, first of all, Mike, tell me what it's like to be a grandfather. Wow, let me tell you it's it's everybody says it's the greatest thing because you can just give the kid back, you know, if he throws up or if he messes up his diaper. And I found that to be the truth right now. Not I imagine at some point I'm going to have to change a diaper, But like I did all my kids, I change our diapers all the time, you know, all the all the things that go along with having a kid, I did. But with the grandkid, I feel it's my responsibility to let my son and daughter in law experience all the joys, ups and downs of parenthood, which includes cleaning up their throw up and their poop. So that's why I give the kid back to them all the time. I can't wait till my kids have to deal with the exploding diaper, the one where it comes up the back and goes all the way through the clothes exactly. And they both have they tell us, I mean, we have our group texts are like, oh, Jack's just exploded all the way up the back, and we're like, man, you remember those things. It's just a terrific It's like you just gotta douse him in the sink or something. But I'm glad they're experiencing it. I don't need to experience it anymore. Do you remind your son, Mike, who you work with now it's crazy and you worked with the ESPN. Do you remind him of those days? Does he have any memories of any of that stuff? No? No, I mean there was a time when both of them were still in diapers and they were playing and I was watching them, and obviously, as a dad watching two young kids, I was watching TV Moore, and they proceeded to take their diapers off, of which they filled up and finger paint one another with their poop. So it was it was an experience that I paid the price for because I wasn't watching them close enough. But now they don't, they don't remember all the way back to that stuff. Yeah. Hell, we're still trying to get mike a wife into the into fathered them as well. You know, he's our oldest. Jake and Sydney are both married. Jake as a kid. My wife is spending her days, you know, trying to get Mikey hooked up. Yeah. Mike is also the most active Golik on Twitter. I think based on yes all the go I follow most of the goliks, uh, and I think he's the most active. Um. I would ask you, Mike about your your career post ESPN. Not surprisingly, you are very busy and very successful. You are in the Broadcast Hall of Fame. You had arguably the greatest talk show in the history of talk radio, and you did it for more than two decades with Mike and Mike tell our listeners all the things that you are doing now post ESPN. Well, you know, last year was the first year out. You know, the last games I had done the ESPN were with you, you know, and I obviously enjoyed doing the games with you like that was when I finished at ESPN, and then we've we've done some subsequent to that as well. But now, you know, last year, my first year out of ESPN, I really kind of wanted to find out, Okay, what did I want to do. Somebody approached me about starting my own podcast company, and I thought, man, do I want to go down that road? You know, if I was ten fifteen years younger, maybe I would. So I hemmed in Hodd with that. I'm doing a little more with you know, lebo Charge Group, with Metal Arca, with Stugott, so I keep busy with that. I did college games for Learfield and NFL games for Westwood One, so I was kind of you know, double gaming and on the weekends, which turned out to be a little too much, but I was kind of seeing which direction I wanted to go. And then I signed the deal with DraftKings, like my son Mike did as well when he chose that over ESPN. Draft Games gave him a real nice deal, so we worked together there. So I just decided, you know, we'll do that, and then I have you know, half the year I live here in South Bend, you know, at Notre Dame that we have season tickets to the Notre Dame games, and my wife's like, why don't you enjoy that? You know, you worked a long time, you know you've been to weigh a lot of weekends. Why don't you enjoy the fact that we're here and can go to the game. So I did. I not call him a college game. So I'm just doing the Westwood One NFL games. I do a podcast for DraftKings, and I do a stupotty with two gods. God blessed football was two gods. And that's enough for me right now. If there's more down the line, I'll see, but right now I'm kind of good with it. I almost I almost Dave got back into morning radio, which would have been would have or actually would have been morning TV, but that that was an if the thing if I want to get up at early again. Can you share what it was or maybe you don't have to give all the details, but would that have been? I probably can't. I probably can't share for what it was, but I would have had I would have had to move. And it was it wasn't radio at all. It was a morning sports TV show that it just didn't work out. It was all amicable, and everything, but the toughest part about it. I've been talking to my wife. I was like, geez, she's goes you be able to get its four or fifteen again. Now obviously I'm almost sixty. It wouldn't have been, you know, for twenty years this time around. But I've kind of gotten used to sleep it until seven thirty eight o'clock, so that early wake up call would have been interesting. Yeah. Yeah, Well you mentioned that we have done some games together since twenty twenty. We did two games or three I think together for Westwood won last year, and you and I saw each other in person more then we did in twenty twenty when we worked together every week. It was insane. The first time we actually saw each other in person was at the festival. All the games we did during the college football season, and we were doing pretty big games Michigan, Penn State. We had Notre Dame a couple of times. And you're in the studio in Bristol and I'm in my house. I remember putting up a sign on Halloween outside our front door, which was next to my office where the broadcast studio was, saying, please do not ring the doorbell during these hours because I'm on the air, Like, if you need a trick or treat, just grab as much candy as you want. I left it out there so people wouldn't bang on the door and ring the doorbell. What was your biggest takeaway from that experience in that season? My biggest takeaway was the fear that your WiFi would go out, which I think it did one time for a short time, and I would be left alone to do like play by play and color. That was my fear. That was the biggest fear that I had. Was was because you were in your house. I was at least at the studios in Bristol, so I mean I had tons of monitors, I had everything that I needed outside of not being there. And we should say our sideline person was at the game. They got to be physically at the game. But that was probably that you doing it from your house and all the negative possibilities that could happen when you're trying to run a national broadcast TV broadcast from your house. I mean, that was that was pretty wild. But it was crazy that we worked the whole season together and the first time we saw each other was my last game at ESPN. But it was still a lot of fun. I mean, you know, our job was to call it like we were there, and I think we did a pretty good job of that. Yeah, I think so a lot of people had no idea first of all, that we weren't there, and then second they had no idea that you and I one of us was in Phoenix, the other was in Bristol, Connecticut. And to your point, I'm using internet, so and I remember it went down and you had to do play by and I think it was not like Notre Dame Georgia Tech at like three thirty on ABC with five million people watching. Yep, that's exactly what it was. I remember a producer getting in my ear and say, with Dave lost his wife, I'm like no, I's like come on. So they said, you know, just go when we come back, and I just kind of did, and luckily it wasn't for long. But man, yeah, that that's something I would not have needed. But that that was again, I'm in a big studio, you're in your house, and God knows you can have issues in there, and because you did a lot out of your house, and I don't know how many times you had issues with it, but that was that was a wild, wild time trying to do games. Yeah, I did a ton of NBA and college basketball from my house. And as you know, Mike, I worked with Bill Walton in college basketball. And actually there was one time where he accidentally turned me down. So nothing can happened in my internet, but he thought it did, so he just started talking and didn't stop for like ten minutes. I'm trying to get his attention, like my Mike's working, I'm on the air, but he couldn't hear me. So anyway, it was. It was quite the year. I'm glad that's over with. I'm glad we're back on site. I want to get into your thoughts on the Cardinals, on the Eagles, on the NFL, but I first want to go back to since the Cardinals are playing the Eagles. That's one of the reasons I wanted to get you on. You spent six years in Philadelphia, and I knew and I had talked about some of the stuff, just our rides to the stadium last year for Westwood and just chatting on the phone. What are you What are your fondest memories of being a Philadelphia Eagle? You know, I quite honest. I love the fans, and it was and I had a real stark contrast with the next team I went to that that I'll get to, But I mean, we know they're a little bit nuts. They know, we know they can get a little bit on a hand. Now. When I was there, it was the old VT where the people up in the seven hundred level they you know, they do some they could do some pretty crazy things. Sometimes they're not real nice to people who wear the other team's jersey when they come in and watch a game. So there are some things that they go a little too far. But I love their passion. They appreciate hard play. It's like a blue collar type situation. And as long as you're you're busting your butt for them, they'll appreciate that. And you know, this was before I was in Philly, before free agency. My last year in the league was the first year of free agency when I ended up in Miami, so players couldn't move as easily. So we had a we had a really great we had a great defense, but but we were together and nobody was really leaving, so we became really good friends as well as teammates, so that that was really a cool thing to me. Is a lot of times. You know, I played nine years and you have like people who were teammates with, you're associated with, but you're not really friends. Well, I had a good amount of friends that I still keep in touch with today that we're on the Eagles team, and and I think a lot of it is the time we spent together, the number of years we're all together. Because it was a lack you know, there was no free agency. And then that first year of free agency, eleven of us were free agents, and all eleven of us went somewhere else because Norman Brayman, the owner of the Eagles, didn't want to resign anybody. He was an absentee owner. He only cared about the bottom line. He was never in Philly, and that was here. If anybody remembers the biggest free agent, the first one was Reggie White, who went to Green Bay and they subsequently won a Super Bowl there. Think about that. This was ninety three. I think his deal was in total, I think seventeen million dollars in total for Reggie White. You know, put that obviously in today in what he would have made. But in Philly, I mean, no matter what I mean, they cheered hard, for us, and they booed you if you were if you weren't very good, and I understood that. I went to Miami Dave the next year ninety three. We were nine and two at one point had the best record at all of football, and we were blacked out locally because we couldn't sell the stadium out. So you know, there was there was a big difference in the heartfelt emotion in Philly and the apathy that was in Miami. You mentioned Reggie White. I wasn't going to go here, but I am curious your take on this. People talk about Aaron Donald being the best defensive player of all time, and Wolf, who I work with, played against Lawrence Taylor and he says it wasn't close. Nothing against Aaron Donald, but Lawrence Taylor, and I don't know that enough people remember how good Reggie White was. I mean, you played on the same defensive line with him. When people say Aaron Donald's the best defensive player of all time, what's your reaction. Well, my reaction is, listen, people are certainly certainly entitled of their opinion. Here's it because I've been asked this, and here's the way I put it. Reggie White's the greatest D lineman I've ever seen play. Lawrence Taylor is the greatest linebacker I've ever seen play one of the and Aaron Donald is certainly up up in that category. The thing about Reggie is you had a six six, three hundred fifteen pound free korana four six forty lifted all the weights in the world, and could line up anywhere on the defensive line. He could line up on an end, on a guard, on a center, anywhere, right side, left side, it didn't matter, and he would get the job done. He had a quick step Aaron Donald. So this is the way I put it. Even in the Hall of Fame, there are different rooms. There's the hierarchy. Even in the Hall of Fame, Reggie White and Lawrence Taylor are in a special room in the Hall of Fame. Aaron Donald will be in that room. Now, I still will say that, as from a D lineman standpoint, I would choose Reggie over Aaron Donald. But again, whenever you're saying that, people are like, oh, you don't like Aaron Donald. Aaron Donald is one of the greatest of all time. I think Reggie, you know, I would pick Reggie over Aaron Donald, but I put them in that same room as far as head and shoulders above a lot of the other greats that were in this game. I'm trying to remember. I mean, your people don't realize how tall you are until they see you in person. I think you're listed at six to five, but I feel like you're taller, and when you played, you were probably what two eighty five to ninety Yeah. I got in the league at two eighty and left it about three. Yeah. So you had you and Reggie White standing next to each other, both basically at six six, three hundred pounds. That's that's pretty good. What's your favorite Reggie White story? I think you told me about one where an opposing player was mfing Reggie White at which guys didn't do, and I think his teammates warned him, don't do that. It's just going to get him going. I don't know if that's the story. If you have another one you remember, no, I mean it was it was in a preseason game and the tackle after a play, you know, Reggie said quit hold me, you know, just in Reggie style, and the dude started mf at him, and Reggie was a people that they don't know was it ordained minister at seventeen years old, and he didn't mind you swearing, but don't swear at him. And everybody knew it. Nobody swore at him. But this guy was cussing him up and down. And it's a preseason game so it doesn't count. And we were all like, oh my god, what what is this guy? Even the guy's teammates were like, dude, what are you doing? So they both the huddle on the play and I looked at the guard across from me and I said, dude, I'm not doing nothing this play. I'm watching. He said, so are weak. He had the other four old lineman, me and my other compatriots on the d line. We basically got into stance where we could just look that way and just watch Reggie. Basically we call him putting him on skates, got his hands into the dude's chest and basically lifted him and took him back, and he sacked of the quarterback with the lineman. He threw the lineman into the quarterback and sacked him. As we were all standing there watching and just looked at the guy that said, don't you ever cuss me again. They're like, Wow, I mean, dude, that movie had you know, the ripping the hump where he rips and then brings the arm out and just kind of tosses players. It's unreal when you see an offensive lineman go horizontal because of the leverage and strength Reggie used to throw him. It's almost frightening. The Eagles right now, the twenty twenty two Philadelphia Eagles, based on what they look like, if not one of the best teams, the best team in the NFL through the first quarter of a season. I don't know how much you've had a chance to watch, because I know you're working, but you do have to be abreast of what's going on with with other teams, and obviously the Eagles have a special place in your heart. Are they the best team right now in football? Yes? I think they are because they're the most balanced. I mean, we keep talking about Jalen Hurts and getting a j Brown and what DeVante Smith is doing, and that old line is one of the best in the league, and they have a great running game to go with it. Their defense is playing incredibly well. I think by yards, I think they're like top three. I think they're third. I mean, that's why I think they're the best because they're balanced. The defense can help keep the in games, and the offense could control the ball. You know, there were two quarterbacks we talked about before the season, Jalen and Tua, you know, as to can these guys grab a hold of this team and be the quarterback of the future for these teams? And right now both have been proven like they can do it and Jalen. I know Twa is injured right now, but Jalen has been fantastic. Now, Jalen's not going to be a forty touchdown guy, but if he can get liked to the low twenties and touchdown to mid twenties and keep it at single digit interceptions with the running game they have going in the defense, they can go far. Their biggest thing, and I'm sure the fans are even understand, is that old line occasionally gets injured, and if that starts to happen, that could be trouble for them, because when they're healthy, that old line is damn good. I did a lot of Jalen Hurts games when he was in college, did him when he played quarterback at Alabama and then when he got beat out by Twa and benched in the National Championship Game. The next year, he played some running back, and then he went to Oklahoma, following Kyler Murray who had followed Baker Mayfield. I don't know that anybody, including the Eagles, saw Jalen Hurts playing this well, and maybe to your point is because they're balanced. Did you see this coming from Jalen Hurtz? No, No, I did not. I was you know, we had talked about, you know, the best teams in the in the country and college. You know, as both have doing college, it's been like, you know, Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson and that, and when then we talk about the the quarterbacks that we're leaving or from Ohio State and Alabama going in in the NFL, and I brought up, you know, this is back even before these guys came out, when I actually was doing radio and TV, I was like, name me the last Ohio State quarterback or Alabama quarterback that went high in the draft and actually turned out to be great. I mean, you have to go back a long way. Now we have justin fields. We'll see where he goes. Still too early to tell, and that's a that's a bad offense right now. In Chicago, you have two, you have jail, and so let's see where these guys go. But for the longest time, some of the best teams in college that would bring quarterbacks into a you know, a high draft pick, we're not panning out at all in the NFL. And I definitely had my doubts about both Twa and Jayleen. I wasn't sure, you know. So it was like, Okay, how are they going to be coached in the NFL and what kind of weapons will you have around them? Will we see the weapons that both teams brought in both Miami and Philadelphia that have helped the quarterbacks, and they've helped themselves. So yes, it's it's been a little more surprising than I thought. But man, I'm a former player. I always want the player to succeed, even if in my opinion, I'm not sure they're going to help prove me wrong. I mean, I hope you played great, and Jalen has certainly taken advantage of it. Kyler Murray against Baker Mayfield this past week with Kyler beating the man that he replaced, and now Jalen Hurts, who replaced Kyler Murray against Kyler here this Sunday, Kyler against the Raiders almost single handily wins the game in overtime, played a great second half against Carolina. The Cardinals prior to the third quarter against Line had not led in regulation. Yet here they are at two and two. What's your take on the Cardinals through four games, and specifically, what's your take on Kyler Murray. Man, I'm telling you, Dave, I we you know, we talk obviously in the podcast that I do the other ones, I do talk a lot of NFL and I do an NFL preview show for Westwood once, so we talk about every team every week. They're one of the biggest enigmas. To me. I had the toughest time figuring them out. There are times Kyler Murray looks like he did last week, throwing for two, running for one, being the man, And there's other times you're like, what the hell is he doing? What is he looking at out there? I can't figure that out? And I know they gave him the big money, so you know, he he's the guy. I get it, but but they're they're a team. To me, I have a tough I guess I'll put it this way. I have a tough time trusting them to be the team I think they can be. I think they should be better than they are, and at times they look at and at times they don't. So when you do that, what do you end up? You end up five hundred, You end up a little light. No, you can't. Seventeen games a little over five hundred. And we've seen them. We've seen them in Plode at the end of the season, you know, those last handful of games just struggle. So when they came out of the gate struggle a little bit. I'm sure the fans are like, oh no, you know, yeah, we do this at the end of the season. We're usually really good at the beginning of the season. So that's been my take on them, Dave. I mean, I'm trying to get a grasp of what I think they are and I'm having a tough time. And it really starts with Kyler Murray because at times you're like wow, and then at times you're like, oh, oh boy. So I'm not sure where it's going to end up on a consistent level. The defense has played lights out and it wasn't that way early, but the last couple of games, in particular, Vance Joseph who's an excellent coordinator. I think is getting used to the pieces he has and where to put them to be successful. And one of those pieces is a guy that Cardinals drafted in the first round last year out of Tulsa, linebacker Zavian Collins. And it seems like he's making strides and starting to get more and more comfortable as someone that play defense in the NFL. And I know the era is different, but I mean, you have been watching football for a long time and you're watching multiple games every week. Is that normal for an inside linebacker who played at a small school now playing against elite athletes similar to himself. He's an elite athlete to two hundred and sixty five pounds in terms of growing to be more physical and understanding the game and the games slowing it down. Is this an abnormal path that it's taking to this point or is this something we need to probably just let go and let it play out for him? No, I think he needed to let go, let a playoff, because remember remember go all the way back to when players to go to college. There are different circumstances on why they end up in college and a certain college, and then things happen in college. Maybe your growth spurtd you know, put on a lot of weight. Maybe it clicks for them where it didn't and big time colleges saw that and didn't recruit them. There's a number of reasons. Sometimes players don't end up at the Power fives. We think they do because of the way they start to play in the NFL. They're like, oh my god, how did you miss that in college? You know, you grab, you grab this guy from Tulsa. You know, why was it he at Alabama or one of the you know, well, some things happen when you're seventeen, eighteen years old, you're getting recruited, and then more things happen when you go eighteen to twenty two. You know where from the mental, mental side, the physical side, you just pick it up. We've seen players forgetting even Division one, you know FCS schools come in and pick up the game incredibly. Well, it's just sometimes the path that they're on and when it clicks for them. I'm amazing at the size. You don't see backers this big much anymore, right, I Mean we see Ray Lewis, you know, was big like that, and others that were good sized when er Lacker went from safety then came to linebacker. He was a big library. Guys are smaller now so they can really run sideline to sidelines. So when you get a guy that's a little bigger and could do those type of things, man, that that is something. But back to your point, that's something you just let go. There are reasons things happen for college. You know sometimes who knows again, who knows what they are? But it doesn't surprise me. Not every guy that clicks in the NFL. You automatically think, oh, that's a that's a qualified guy. All right, couple more related to you and then we'll get you out of here. Not many people realize you're in the Wrestling Hall of Fame. You were an incredible wrestler growing up? Were you a better wrestler than football player? Meaning if champion state champion wrestlers in high school had the same opportunities to excel and you know, continue in their sport, could you have done that well. First, the the Wrestling Hall of Fame, I'm in there as what they call a great American because I've staunchly defended wrestling all the time during my shows and such. I was a good wrestler, not a great wrestler. My brother Bob. My brother Bob was a was a great wrestler. I'll say this, I loved wrestling as much as football by far. And to answer your question, if there was the equivalent to go in wrestling, I don't know. There's a there's a chance I may have done that. I loved wrestling, loved it. Like I said, my brother Bob finished fourth in the nation, and we both wrestled at Notre Dame as well. He was fourth in the nation is sophomore year, third as junior year. He was wearing number one a senior year, but he heard his knee in the Cotton Bowl, the famous Chicken Soup game when Notre Dame played Houston at the Cotton Bowl when it was freezing cold out and he heard his knee in that game. So he didn't wrestle because he was getting ready for the draft and he wanted to try for the Olympics, the eighty Olympics, which it turns out we boycotted anyway. But he was drafted in seventy nine, and back then you couldn't be a two sport person and be in the Olympics. So he was a much better wrestler than I was. But I love wrestling easily as much as football, and I mean, i'll watch it when it's on TV. And so I don't know if I can really all out just say I would have chosen that over football, but I would have thought long and hard if there was an equivalent professional rank, you know, to kind of follow and in the wrestling pattern, because it is I mean, man, it's one on one game. I mean, it's one on one. It's you and somebody else. There are no excuses, there are no teammates to help you out. It is you and that person you're wrestling. I mean, to me, it is the ultimate. Well, first of all, you are a great American. So perhaps that just everybody knows you're great Americans automatically. That's the title you get when you go into the Wrestling Hall of Fame. Did you did you ever consider, you know, pro wrestling the way it is or does that cheapen high school and college wrestling, which is real wrestling as opposed to the theatrics. Oh no, no, no, it doesn't cheapen at all. It's different. It's not trying to say we're you know, a different or ancillary to wrestling. They're completely different. I mean it's I love you know, pro wrestling WW and all that. Hell, I remember watching the first wrestle Media way way way back when I was a huge fan of wrestling in all. Honestly, I don't know if I was athletic enough to do what they do, flying off the ropes, flipping off the ropes, jumping off ladders and cages. I mean, it's incredible athletically what they have to do. But no, I never I was. I always knew that was just completely different. They weren't trying to be regular wrestling, and regular wrestling wasn't trying to be them. And then you look at you know where it was a great outlet for wrestling. It's something I wouldn't have done because there's something about getting kicked in the face I don't really like. Wrestlers did really well in MMA, yeah, because they could go in and they could use their takedown skills, get a guy on the mat and then pubble them, you know, into submission. So the wrestlers that that became a pretty good outlet for them because they really didn't have any other outlet, you know, unless they had the theatrics, you know, to go into uh um uh wwe and that kind of wrestler. They'd go into MMA and they would perform really well. You mentioned your brother Bob. Did you consider acting at all because Bob was in well, he was in a lot of things. But one I remember, you know, growing up in the eighties and nineties was saved by the Bell, although I think he was it was saved by the Bell the college years that he was. He was he was like the ra a right, Yeah, ironically his name was Mike in that it was Mike Hodgers. Okay, Yeah. I never pursued and no, and not not like Bob, like Bob, because Bob finished with the Raiders when they were in La So Bob made a lot of contact out there, and he wanted to stay out there and give acting to try and he got that and then after that nothing really happened. He ended up going back to Cleveland. But I never really, never really looked at that and said I'm going to pursue this. Right when I got out of the NFL, I retired in ninety four, and the next year ninety five, I was doing college games for ESPN and ABC, and I was doing the Jacksonville just came into the league. I was there, uh TV analyst for preseason games, so I jumped right into that, you know, Greening. I ended up being on the Guiding Light an episode um estn had that What was that one? They had that one show players or something like that. Yeah, for what it was called, we were We were in an episode of that. So I did it. We did. I did a few things here and there, but it was nothing. Nothing I really pursued. All right, last one, since you live in South Bend, give me your take on Notre Dame and what's going on there. They've had a couple of head scratchers this year, well they have, I mean, you know, first Marcus Freeman is he's thirty six. I mean, my god, it's unbelievable. So it was a weird situation with Brian Kelly leaving. I don't know Roger guy for leaving. I mean, it's their right to do that. What was weird was that never happens at Notre Dame. Usually a Notre Dame coaches fired or retires. Brian Kelly chose to leave for whatever his reasons were. Money certainly one of them, and he had the only thing mission from his resume as a national championship, and he felt he had a more consistent chance to get it there. We'll see at LSU. But Marcus Freeman is a phenomenal guy, a fantastic recruiter. All the players are buying in so everybody loves them. But even he knows we chat a decent amount, and even he knows it doesn't mean anything if I don't win. I mean, it's a big time college baller comes on the wins of losses. I think there may have been an over expectation, even maybe in the rankings when they were preseason number five. They had a quarterback who didn't play much last year. They didn't really have any veteran wide receivers who had done a ton. They had the best sight end in the game between him and Bowers, a kid from Georgia, they're the two best. The old line. You had a couple of young guys at tackles. But they did get Harry easton their old line coach back, but it was going to take some time defensively, you get out Goolden in. So it's a while it's somewhat similar, it's still a different scheme. So I think a mistake I made was I thought they would hit the ground running a lot faster than they did and learning, you know they have they have to grow a little bit and then what a two games and you lose your quarterback. Now you're in your backup quarterback. So I think it's going to take time to develop through the year, and hopefully by the time they get to the Cleansings and the uscs of the world that they're really hitting their stride later in the season. But I do think there's going to be some good things going for Marcus just because kids want to play for him. His recruiting classes the next couple have been number one, number two or number three. So you let those guys come in, get acclimated to the program and see where it can take it. We had them last year at Virginia. Obviously Brian Kelly was still the head coach, but in talking with Marcus Freeman and when he was at Cincinnati, same thing, whatever production meeting with a really impressive guy, excellent recruiter. I think it's just a matter of time. People got to give him some time. I was gonna I was gonna let you go, but I gotta ask you one more because I was just thinking about this because this movie was on. You know how they on some of the airlines they cycle through old movies and put them on and Rudy. Rudy is on one of the airlines. I can't remember which one it's on. But do people think about Rudy in South Bend the way US outsiders think about Rudy because it's a beloved movie for people that maybe aren't close to the program. What's it like for people in South Bend? Do they revere it the same way we do? I guess as my question, no, I no, I don't think they do. Listen, it's an inspirational story, but I think it's more, you know, people to hear and know the story. I think it's more for those that don't don't know the story and get moved by it. Now I will say it was Hollywood it up a little bit as well. So that's another thing. Because my brother Bob was a freshman, and my brother Bob, when he was a freshman, he was he was a starter on the defense. So Bob was here that year of Rudy, and while the story of him getting into school and all the work he did and gotten everything out on the football field. A lot of it obviously is true, but it was Hollywood it up a little bit, so some of us that know all that kind of went on, you know, you kind of say, well, okay, I get it. You know, it's Hollywood. They got to kind of spruce it up a little bit. But again, to your point, it's not as awe like while here as it is everywhere else when people see it for the first time, Well, listen, man, I knew I could ask you anything and you'd have a great answer. And for people that I think I understood after working with you for a year, even though again we didn't get to really see each other, but we talked a bunch and then spend some time together last year, I can understand why you were so successful and likable on the air and people just and I noticed that when I was with you on some of the Westwood games and also doing college games with you, like all the coaches wanted to talk to you. Because I think that's one of the reasons why people have successful shows, because their personality gets to a point where real life comes through. And you saw that with you every day and your family, and it's just one of those things where I think when you're real on the air, people see that and they gravitate to you. And I noticed that just working with you, So I really appreciate that about you. Mike. You're great at what you do. And thanks so much for spending some time with us. Man, Oh my pleasure. And listen. I got to thank my kids and they're still trying to get money out of me because I told them at a young age when I did the radio and TV, I'm using them as content. They will be talked about, good and bad for laughs. So I made sure I did that. Oh it's great. Thanks again, Mike, Catch up soon, man. Thanks say. I knew we would be able to cover a variety of subjects with Mike and he would have a great take on all of them, including being a grandfather, not having to change diapers anymore. You could tell just listening to Mike his post ESPN life. Things are going great. Involved in a lot of different things, including calling Sunday night games for Westwood One. He did the Tampa Bay game the other night, and also discussed his thoughts on his days with the Philadelphia Eagles, playing with Reggie White, his take on Jalen Hurts, and the current Eagles. Like me, he thinks right now, the Eagles are the best team in the NFL, and like me, he's not sure what to make of the Cardinals through four games. But the good news is the Cardinals are two and two. They haven't played their best football, Maybe the second half of the Carolina game as a springboard to starting to look like the team we saw the first half of twenty twenty one. We are presented by bet MGM, the official sports betting partner of the Arizona Cardinals, and by Hila River Resorts and Casinos. Please go to your podcast platform and rate us. We'd also like to hear about future guests you'd like to hear from on the show. Give us your thoughts on your podcast platform. You can also follow us on Twitter at pash pod Our. Thanks to broadcasting legend Mike Golick for his time, and thanks again to you for listening to another edition of the Dave Pash Podcast. All Right,

Hey everybody, and welcome to another edition of the Dave Pash Podcast. I'm your host ESPN and Arizona Cardinals announcer Dave Pash. My guest this week is Mike Golik, one of the top broadcasters of all time. He's in the Radio Broadcasting Hall of Fame for the terrific show that he did all those years for ESPN with Mike Greenberg, simply known as Mike and Mike. Golik is still going strong in broadcasting, whether it's calling games, hosting a podcast, appearing on television. We're going to get into that along with his thoughts on the Cardinals opponent this week, Philadelphia. Jalen Hurts. Jalen has been fantastic. Now, Jalen's not going to be a forty touchdown guy, but if he can get in like to the low twenties and touchdown to mid twenties and keep it at single digit interceptions with the running game they have going in the defense, they can go far. We are presented by bet MGM, the official sports betting partner of the Arizona Cardinals, and by Hila River Resorts and Casinos. Get ready for a football season like never before with betmgm, an official partner of the Arizona Cardinals. Sign up today using code cards one thousand and get your first bet risk free up to one thousand dollars. Visit betmgm dot comfer terms and conditions twenty one and over Arizona only. Please gamble responsibly. Gambling problem called one eight hundred. Next step All right, Time to talk with former Philadelphia Eagle and a broadcasting legend, Mike Golick. Well, first of all, Mike, tell me what it's like to be a grandfather. Wow, let me tell you it's it's everybody says it's the greatest thing because you can just give the kid back, you know, if he throws up or if he messes up his diaper. And I found that to be the truth right now. Not I imagine at some point I'm going to have to change a diaper, But like I did all my kids, I change our diapers all the time, you know, all the all the things that go along with having a kid, I did. But with the grandkid, I feel it's my responsibility to let my son and daughter in law experience all the joys, ups and downs of parenthood, which includes cleaning up their throw up and their poop. So that's why I give the kid back to them all the time. I can't wait till my kids have to deal with the exploding diaper, the one where it comes up the back and goes all the way through the clothes exactly. And they both have they tell us, I mean, we have our group texts are like, oh, Jack's just exploded all the way up the back, and we're like, man, you remember those things. It's just a terrific It's like you just gotta douse him in the sink or something. But I'm glad they're experiencing it. I don't need to experience it anymore. Do you remind your son, Mike, who you work with now it's crazy and you worked with the ESPN. Do you remind him of those days? Does he have any memories of any of that stuff? No? No, I mean there was a time when both of them were still in diapers and they were playing and I was watching them, and obviously, as a dad watching two young kids, I was watching TV Moore, and they proceeded to take their diapers off, of which they filled up and finger paint one another with their poop. So it was it was an experience that I paid the price for because I wasn't watching them close enough. But now they don't, they don't remember all the way back to that stuff. Yeah. Hell, we're still trying to get mike a wife into the into fathered them as well. You know, he's our oldest. Jake and Sydney are both married. Jake as a kid. My wife is spending her days, you know, trying to get Mikey hooked up. Yeah. Mike is also the most active Golik on Twitter. I think based on yes all the go I follow most of the goliks, uh, and I think he's the most active. Um. I would ask you, Mike about your your career post ESPN. Not surprisingly, you are very busy and very successful. You are in the Broadcast Hall of Fame. You had arguably the greatest talk show in the history of talk radio, and you did it for more than two decades with Mike and Mike tell our listeners all the things that you are doing now post ESPN. Well, you know, last year was the first year out. You know, the last games I had done the ESPN were with you, you know, and I obviously enjoyed doing the games with you like that was when I finished at ESPN, and then we've we've done some subsequent to that as well. But now, you know, last year, my first year out of ESPN, I really kind of wanted to find out, Okay, what did I want to do. Somebody approached me about starting my own podcast company, and I thought, man, do I want to go down that road? You know, if I was ten fifteen years younger, maybe I would. So I hemmed in Hodd with that. I'm doing a little more with you know, lebo Charge Group, with Metal Arca, with Stugott, so I keep busy with that. I did college games for Learfield and NFL games for Westwood One, so I was kind of you know, double gaming and on the weekends, which turned out to be a little too much, but I was kind of seeing which direction I wanted to go. And then I signed the deal with DraftKings, like my son Mike did as well when he chose that over ESPN. Draft Games gave him a real nice deal, so we worked together there. So I just decided, you know, we'll do that, and then I have you know, half the year I live here in South Bend, you know, at Notre Dame that we have season tickets to the Notre Dame games, and my wife's like, why don't you enjoy that? You know, you worked a long time, you know you've been to weigh a lot of weekends. Why don't you enjoy the fact that we're here and can go to the game. So I did. I not call him a college game. So I'm just doing the Westwood One NFL games. I do a podcast for DraftKings, and I do a stupotty with two gods. God blessed football was two gods. And that's enough for me right now. If there's more down the line, I'll see, but right now I'm kind of good with it. I almost I almost Dave got back into morning radio, which would have been would have or actually would have been morning TV, but that that was an if the thing if I want to get up at early again. Can you share what it was or maybe you don't have to give all the details, but would that have been? I probably can't. I probably can't share for what it was, but I would have had I would have had to move. And it was it wasn't radio at all. It was a morning sports TV show that it just didn't work out. It was all amicable, and everything, but the toughest part about it. I've been talking to my wife. I was like, geez, she's goes you be able to get its four or fifteen again. Now obviously I'm almost sixty. It wouldn't have been, you know, for twenty years this time around. But I've kind of gotten used to sleep it until seven thirty eight o'clock, so that early wake up call would have been interesting. Yeah. Yeah, Well you mentioned that we have done some games together since twenty twenty. We did two games or three I think together for Westwood won last year, and you and I saw each other in person more then we did in twenty twenty when we worked together every week. It was insane. The first time we actually saw each other in person was at the festival. All the games we did during the college football season, and we were doing pretty big games Michigan, Penn State. We had Notre Dame a couple of times. And you're in the studio in Bristol and I'm in my house. I remember putting up a sign on Halloween outside our front door, which was next to my office where the broadcast studio was, saying, please do not ring the doorbell during these hours because I'm on the air, Like, if you need a trick or treat, just grab as much candy as you want. I left it out there so people wouldn't bang on the door and ring the doorbell. What was your biggest takeaway from that experience in that season? My biggest takeaway was the fear that your WiFi would go out, which I think it did one time for a short time, and I would be left alone to do like play by play and color. That was my fear. That was the biggest fear that I had. Was was because you were in your house. I was at least at the studios in Bristol, so I mean I had tons of monitors, I had everything that I needed outside of not being there. And we should say our sideline person was at the game. They got to be physically at the game. But that was probably that you doing it from your house and all the negative possibilities that could happen when you're trying to run a national broadcast TV broadcast from your house. I mean, that was that was pretty wild. But it was crazy that we worked the whole season together and the first time we saw each other was my last game at ESPN. But it was still a lot of fun. I mean, you know, our job was to call it like we were there, and I think we did a pretty good job of that. Yeah, I think so a lot of people had no idea first of all, that we weren't there, and then second they had no idea that you and I one of us was in Phoenix, the other was in Bristol, Connecticut. And to your point, I'm using internet, so and I remember it went down and you had to do play by and I think it was not like Notre Dame Georgia Tech at like three thirty on ABC with five million people watching. Yep, that's exactly what it was. I remember a producer getting in my ear and say, with Dave lost his wife, I'm like no, I's like come on. So they said, you know, just go when we come back, and I just kind of did, and luckily it wasn't for long. But man, yeah, that that's something I would not have needed. But that that was again, I'm in a big studio, you're in your house, and God knows you can have issues in there, and because you did a lot out of your house, and I don't know how many times you had issues with it, but that was that was a wild, wild time trying to do games. Yeah, I did a ton of NBA and college basketball from my house. And as you know, Mike, I worked with Bill Walton in college basketball. And actually there was one time where he accidentally turned me down. So nothing can happened in my internet, but he thought it did, so he just started talking and didn't stop for like ten minutes. I'm trying to get his attention, like my Mike's working, I'm on the air, but he couldn't hear me. So anyway, it was. It was quite the year. I'm glad that's over with. I'm glad we're back on site. I want to get into your thoughts on the Cardinals, on the Eagles, on the NFL, but I first want to go back to since the Cardinals are playing the Eagles. That's one of the reasons I wanted to get you on. You spent six years in Philadelphia, and I knew and I had talked about some of the stuff, just our rides to the stadium last year for Westwood and just chatting on the phone. What are you What are your fondest memories of being a Philadelphia Eagle? You know, I quite honest. I love the fans, and it was and I had a real stark contrast with the next team I went to that that I'll get to, But I mean, we know they're a little bit nuts. They know, we know they can get a little bit on a hand. Now. When I was there, it was the old VT where the people up in the seven hundred level they you know, they do some they could do some pretty crazy things. Sometimes they're not real nice to people who wear the other team's jersey when they come in and watch a game. So there are some things that they go a little too far. But I love their passion. They appreciate hard play. It's like a blue collar type situation. And as long as you're you're busting your butt for them, they'll appreciate that. And you know, this was before I was in Philly, before free agency. My last year in the league was the first year of free agency when I ended up in Miami, so players couldn't move as easily. So we had a we had a really great we had a great defense, but but we were together and nobody was really leaving, so we became really good friends as well as teammates, so that that was really a cool thing to me. Is a lot of times. You know, I played nine years and you have like people who were teammates with, you're associated with, but you're not really friends. Well, I had a good amount of friends that I still keep in touch with today that we're on the Eagles team, and and I think a lot of it is the time we spent together, the number of years we're all together. Because it was a lack you know, there was no free agency. And then that first year of free agency, eleven of us were free agents, and all eleven of us went somewhere else because Norman Brayman, the owner of the Eagles, didn't want to resign anybody. He was an absentee owner. He only cared about the bottom line. He was never in Philly, and that was here. If anybody remembers the biggest free agent, the first one was Reggie White, who went to Green Bay and they subsequently won a Super Bowl there. Think about that. This was ninety three. I think his deal was in total, I think seventeen million dollars in total for Reggie White. You know, put that obviously in today in what he would have made. But in Philly, I mean, no matter what I mean, they cheered hard, for us, and they booed you if you were if you weren't very good, and I understood that. I went to Miami Dave the next year ninety three. We were nine and two at one point had the best record at all of football, and we were blacked out locally because we couldn't sell the stadium out. So you know, there was there was a big difference in the heartfelt emotion in Philly and the apathy that was in Miami. You mentioned Reggie White. I wasn't going to go here, but I am curious your take on this. People talk about Aaron Donald being the best defensive player of all time, and Wolf, who I work with, played against Lawrence Taylor and he says it wasn't close. Nothing against Aaron Donald, but Lawrence Taylor, and I don't know that enough people remember how good Reggie White was. I mean, you played on the same defensive line with him. When people say Aaron Donald's the best defensive player of all time, what's your reaction. Well, my reaction is, listen, people are certainly certainly entitled of their opinion. Here's it because I've been asked this, and here's the way I put it. Reggie White's the greatest D lineman I've ever seen play. Lawrence Taylor is the greatest linebacker I've ever seen play one of the and Aaron Donald is certainly up up in that category. The thing about Reggie is you had a six six, three hundred fifteen pound free korana four six forty lifted all the weights in the world, and could line up anywhere on the defensive line. He could line up on an end, on a guard, on a center, anywhere, right side, left side, it didn't matter, and he would get the job done. He had a quick step Aaron Donald. So this is the way I put it. Even in the Hall of Fame, there are different rooms. There's the hierarchy. Even in the Hall of Fame, Reggie White and Lawrence Taylor are in a special room in the Hall of Fame. Aaron Donald will be in that room. Now, I still will say that, as from a D lineman standpoint, I would choose Reggie over Aaron Donald. But again, whenever you're saying that, people are like, oh, you don't like Aaron Donald. Aaron Donald is one of the greatest of all time. I think Reggie, you know, I would pick Reggie over Aaron Donald, but I put them in that same room as far as head and shoulders above a lot of the other greats that were in this game. I'm trying to remember. I mean, your people don't realize how tall you are until they see you in person. I think you're listed at six to five, but I feel like you're taller, and when you played, you were probably what two eighty five to ninety Yeah. I got in the league at two eighty and left it about three. Yeah. So you had you and Reggie White standing next to each other, both basically at six six, three hundred pounds. That's that's pretty good. What's your favorite Reggie White story? I think you told me about one where an opposing player was mfing Reggie White at which guys didn't do, and I think his teammates warned him, don't do that. It's just going to get him going. I don't know if that's the story. If you have another one you remember, no, I mean it was it was in a preseason game and the tackle after a play, you know, Reggie said quit hold me, you know, just in Reggie style, and the dude started mf at him, and Reggie was a people that they don't know was it ordained minister at seventeen years old, and he didn't mind you swearing, but don't swear at him. And everybody knew it. Nobody swore at him. But this guy was cussing him up and down. And it's a preseason game so it doesn't count. And we were all like, oh my god, what what is this guy? Even the guy's teammates were like, dude, what are you doing? So they both the huddle on the play and I looked at the guard across from me and I said, dude, I'm not doing nothing this play. I'm watching. He said, so are weak. He had the other four old lineman, me and my other compatriots on the d line. We basically got into stance where we could just look that way and just watch Reggie. Basically we call him putting him on skates, got his hands into the dude's chest and basically lifted him and took him back, and he sacked of the quarterback with the lineman. He threw the lineman into the quarterback and sacked him. As we were all standing there watching and just looked at the guy that said, don't you ever cuss me again. They're like, Wow, I mean, dude, that movie had you know, the ripping the hump where he rips and then brings the arm out and just kind of tosses players. It's unreal when you see an offensive lineman go horizontal because of the leverage and strength Reggie used to throw him. It's almost frightening. The Eagles right now, the twenty twenty two Philadelphia Eagles, based on what they look like, if not one of the best teams, the best team in the NFL through the first quarter of a season. I don't know how much you've had a chance to watch, because I know you're working, but you do have to be abreast of what's going on with with other teams, and obviously the Eagles have a special place in your heart. Are they the best team right now in football? Yes? I think they are because they're the most balanced. I mean, we keep talking about Jalen Hurts and getting a j Brown and what DeVante Smith is doing, and that old line is one of the best in the league, and they have a great running game to go with it. Their defense is playing incredibly well. I think by yards, I think they're like top three. I think they're third. I mean, that's why I think they're the best because they're balanced. The defense can help keep the in games, and the offense could control the ball. You know, there were two quarterbacks we talked about before the season, Jalen and Tua, you know, as to can these guys grab a hold of this team and be the quarterback of the future for these teams? And right now both have been proven like they can do it and Jalen. I know Twa is injured right now, but Jalen has been fantastic. Now, Jalen's not going to be a forty touchdown guy, but if he can get liked to the low twenties and touchdown to mid twenties and keep it at single digit interceptions with the running game they have going in the defense, they can go far. Their biggest thing, and I'm sure the fans are even understand, is that old line occasionally gets injured, and if that starts to happen, that could be trouble for them, because when they're healthy, that old line is damn good. I did a lot of Jalen Hurts games when he was in college, did him when he played quarterback at Alabama and then when he got beat out by Twa and benched in the National Championship Game. The next year, he played some running back, and then he went to Oklahoma, following Kyler Murray who had followed Baker Mayfield. I don't know that anybody, including the Eagles, saw Jalen Hurts playing this well, and maybe to your point is because they're balanced. Did you see this coming from Jalen Hurtz? No, No, I did not. I was you know, we had talked about, you know, the best teams in the in the country and college. You know, as both have doing college, it's been like, you know, Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson and that, and when then we talk about the the quarterbacks that we're leaving or from Ohio State and Alabama going in in the NFL, and I brought up, you know, this is back even before these guys came out, when I actually was doing radio and TV, I was like, name me the last Ohio State quarterback or Alabama quarterback that went high in the draft and actually turned out to be great. I mean, you have to go back a long way. Now we have justin fields. We'll see where he goes. Still too early to tell, and that's a that's a bad offense right now. In Chicago, you have two, you have jail, and so let's see where these guys go. But for the longest time, some of the best teams in college that would bring quarterbacks into a you know, a high draft pick, we're not panning out at all in the NFL. And I definitely had my doubts about both Twa and Jayleen. I wasn't sure, you know. So it was like, Okay, how are they going to be coached in the NFL and what kind of weapons will you have around them? Will we see the weapons that both teams brought in both Miami and Philadelphia that have helped the quarterbacks, and they've helped themselves. So yes, it's it's been a little more surprising than I thought. But man, I'm a former player. I always want the player to succeed, even if in my opinion, I'm not sure they're going to help prove me wrong. I mean, I hope you played great, and Jalen has certainly taken advantage of it. Kyler Murray against Baker Mayfield this past week with Kyler beating the man that he replaced, and now Jalen Hurts, who replaced Kyler Murray against Kyler here this Sunday, Kyler against the Raiders almost single handily wins the game in overtime, played a great second half against Carolina. The Cardinals prior to the third quarter against Line had not led in regulation. Yet here they are at two and two. What's your take on the Cardinals through four games, and specifically, what's your take on Kyler Murray. Man, I'm telling you, Dave, I we you know, we talk obviously in the podcast that I do the other ones, I do talk a lot of NFL and I do an NFL preview show for Westwood once, so we talk about every team every week. They're one of the biggest enigmas. To me. I had the toughest time figuring them out. There are times Kyler Murray looks like he did last week, throwing for two, running for one, being the man, And there's other times you're like, what the hell is he doing? What is he looking at out there? I can't figure that out? And I know they gave him the big money, so you know, he he's the guy. I get it, but but they're they're a team. To me, I have a tough I guess I'll put it this way. I have a tough time trusting them to be the team I think they can be. I think they should be better than they are, and at times they look at and at times they don't. So when you do that, what do you end up? You end up five hundred, You end up a little light. No, you can't. Seventeen games a little over five hundred. And we've seen them. We've seen them in Plode at the end of the season, you know, those last handful of games just struggle. So when they came out of the gate struggle a little bit. I'm sure the fans are like, oh no, you know, yeah, we do this at the end of the season. We're usually really good at the beginning of the season. So that's been my take on them, Dave. I mean, I'm trying to get a grasp of what I think they are and I'm having a tough time. And it really starts with Kyler Murray because at times you're like wow, and then at times you're like, oh, oh boy. So I'm not sure where it's going to end up on a consistent level. The defense has played lights out and it wasn't that way early, but the last couple of games, in particular, Vance Joseph who's an excellent coordinator. I think is getting used to the pieces he has and where to put them to be successful. And one of those pieces is a guy that Cardinals drafted in the first round last year out of Tulsa, linebacker Zavian Collins. And it seems like he's making strides and starting to get more and more comfortable as someone that play defense in the NFL. And I know the era is different, but I mean, you have been watching football for a long time and you're watching multiple games every week. Is that normal for an inside linebacker who played at a small school now playing against elite athletes similar to himself. He's an elite athlete to two hundred and sixty five pounds in terms of growing to be more physical and understanding the game and the games slowing it down. Is this an abnormal path that it's taking to this point or is this something we need to probably just let go and let it play out for him? No, I think he needed to let go, let a playoff, because remember remember go all the way back to when players to go to college. There are different circumstances on why they end up in college and a certain college, and then things happen in college. Maybe your growth spurtd you know, put on a lot of weight. Maybe it clicks for them where it didn't and big time colleges saw that and didn't recruit them. There's a number of reasons. Sometimes players don't end up at the Power fives. We think they do because of the way they start to play in the NFL. They're like, oh my god, how did you miss that in college? You know, you grab, you grab this guy from Tulsa. You know, why was it he at Alabama or one of the you know, well, some things happen when you're seventeen, eighteen years old, you're getting recruited, and then more things happen when you go eighteen to twenty two. You know where from the mental, mental side, the physical side, you just pick it up. We've seen players forgetting even Division one, you know FCS schools come in and pick up the game incredibly. Well, it's just sometimes the path that they're on and when it clicks for them. I'm amazing at the size. You don't see backers this big much anymore, right, I Mean we see Ray Lewis, you know, was big like that, and others that were good sized when er Lacker went from safety then came to linebacker. He was a big library. Guys are smaller now so they can really run sideline to sidelines. So when you get a guy that's a little bigger and could do those type of things, man, that that is something. But back to your point, that's something you just let go. There are reasons things happen for college. You know sometimes who knows again, who knows what they are? But it doesn't surprise me. Not every guy that clicks in the NFL. You automatically think, oh, that's a that's a qualified guy. All right, couple more related to you and then we'll get you out of here. Not many people realize you're in the Wrestling Hall of Fame. You were an incredible wrestler growing up? Were you a better wrestler than football player? Meaning if champion state champion wrestlers in high school had the same opportunities to excel and you know, continue in their sport, could you have done that well. First, the the Wrestling Hall of Fame, I'm in there as what they call a great American because I've staunchly defended wrestling all the time during my shows and such. I was a good wrestler, not a great wrestler. My brother Bob. My brother Bob was a was a great wrestler. I'll say this, I loved wrestling as much as football by far. And to answer your question, if there was the equivalent to go in wrestling, I don't know. There's a there's a chance I may have done that. I loved wrestling, loved it. Like I said, my brother Bob finished fourth in the nation, and we both wrestled at Notre Dame as well. He was fourth in the nation is sophomore year, third as junior year. He was wearing number one a senior year, but he heard his knee in the Cotton Bowl, the famous Chicken Soup game when Notre Dame played Houston at the Cotton Bowl when it was freezing cold out and he heard his knee in that game. So he didn't wrestle because he was getting ready for the draft and he wanted to try for the Olympics, the eighty Olympics, which it turns out we boycotted anyway. But he was drafted in seventy nine, and back then you couldn't be a two sport person and be in the Olympics. So he was a much better wrestler than I was. But I love wrestling easily as much as football, and I mean, i'll watch it when it's on TV. And so I don't know if I can really all out just say I would have chosen that over football, but I would have thought long and hard if there was an equivalent professional rank, you know, to kind of follow and in the wrestling pattern, because it is I mean, man, it's one on one game. I mean, it's one on one. It's you and somebody else. There are no excuses, there are no teammates to help you out. It is you and that person you're wrestling. I mean, to me, it is the ultimate. Well, first of all, you are a great American. So perhaps that just everybody knows you're great Americans automatically. That's the title you get when you go into the Wrestling Hall of Fame. Did you did you ever consider, you know, pro wrestling the way it is or does that cheapen high school and college wrestling, which is real wrestling as opposed to the theatrics. Oh no, no, no, it doesn't cheapen at all. It's different. It's not trying to say we're you know, a different or ancillary to wrestling. They're completely different. I mean it's I love you know, pro wrestling WW and all that. Hell, I remember watching the first wrestle Media way way way back when I was a huge fan of wrestling in all. Honestly, I don't know if I was athletic enough to do what they do, flying off the ropes, flipping off the ropes, jumping off ladders and cages. I mean, it's incredible athletically what they have to do. But no, I never I was. I always knew that was just completely different. They weren't trying to be regular wrestling, and regular wrestling wasn't trying to be them. And then you look at you know where it was a great outlet for wrestling. It's something I wouldn't have done because there's something about getting kicked in the face I don't really like. Wrestlers did really well in MMA, yeah, because they could go in and they could use their takedown skills, get a guy on the mat and then pubble them, you know, into submission. So the wrestlers that that became a pretty good outlet for them because they really didn't have any other outlet, you know, unless they had the theatrics, you know, to go into uh um uh wwe and that kind of wrestler. They'd go into MMA and they would perform really well. You mentioned your brother Bob. Did you consider acting at all because Bob was in well, he was in a lot of things. But one I remember, you know, growing up in the eighties and nineties was saved by the Bell, although I think he was it was saved by the Bell the college years that he was. He was he was like the ra a right, Yeah, ironically his name was Mike in that it was Mike Hodgers. Okay, Yeah. I never pursued and no, and not not like Bob, like Bob, because Bob finished with the Raiders when they were in La So Bob made a lot of contact out there, and he wanted to stay out there and give acting to try and he got that and then after that nothing really happened. He ended up going back to Cleveland. But I never really, never really looked at that and said I'm going to pursue this. Right when I got out of the NFL, I retired in ninety four, and the next year ninety five, I was doing college games for ESPN and ABC, and I was doing the Jacksonville just came into the league. I was there, uh TV analyst for preseason games, so I jumped right into that, you know, Greening. I ended up being on the Guiding Light an episode um estn had that What was that one? They had that one show players or something like that. Yeah, for what it was called, we were We were in an episode of that. So I did it. We did. I did a few things here and there, but it was nothing. Nothing I really pursued. All right, last one, since you live in South Bend, give me your take on Notre Dame and what's going on there. They've had a couple of head scratchers this year, well they have, I mean, you know, first Marcus Freeman is he's thirty six. I mean, my god, it's unbelievable. So it was a weird situation with Brian Kelly leaving. I don't know Roger guy for leaving. I mean, it's their right to do that. What was weird was that never happens at Notre Dame. Usually a Notre Dame coaches fired or retires. Brian Kelly chose to leave for whatever his reasons were. Money certainly one of them, and he had the only thing mission from his resume as a national championship, and he felt he had a more consistent chance to get it there. We'll see at LSU. But Marcus Freeman is a phenomenal guy, a fantastic recruiter. All the players are buying in so everybody loves them. But even he knows we chat a decent amount, and even he knows it doesn't mean anything if I don't win. I mean, it's a big time college baller comes on the wins of losses. I think there may have been an over expectation, even maybe in the rankings when they were preseason number five. They had a quarterback who didn't play much last year. They didn't really have any veteran wide receivers who had done a ton. They had the best sight end in the game between him and Bowers, a kid from Georgia, they're the two best. The old line. You had a couple of young guys at tackles. But they did get Harry easton their old line coach back, but it was going to take some time defensively, you get out Goolden in. So it's a while it's somewhat similar, it's still a different scheme. So I think a mistake I made was I thought they would hit the ground running a lot faster than they did and learning, you know they have they have to grow a little bit and then what a two games and you lose your quarterback. Now you're in your backup quarterback. So I think it's going to take time to develop through the year, and hopefully by the time they get to the Cleansings and the uscs of the world that they're really hitting their stride later in the season. But I do think there's going to be some good things going for Marcus just because kids want to play for him. His recruiting classes the next couple have been number one, number two or number three. So you let those guys come in, get acclimated to the program and see where it can take it. We had them last year at Virginia. Obviously Brian Kelly was still the head coach, but in talking with Marcus Freeman and when he was at Cincinnati, same thing, whatever production meeting with a really impressive guy, excellent recruiter. I think it's just a matter of time. People got to give him some time. I was gonna I was gonna let you go, but I gotta ask you one more because I was just thinking about this because this movie was on. You know how they on some of the airlines they cycle through old movies and put them on and Rudy. Rudy is on one of the airlines. I can't remember which one it's on. But do people think about Rudy in South Bend the way US outsiders think about Rudy because it's a beloved movie for people that maybe aren't close to the program. What's it like for people in South Bend? Do they revere it the same way we do? I guess as my question, no, I no, I don't think they do. Listen, it's an inspirational story, but I think it's more, you know, people to hear and know the story. I think it's more for those that don't don't know the story and get moved by it. Now I will say it was Hollywood it up a little bit as well. So that's another thing. Because my brother Bob was a freshman, and my brother Bob, when he was a freshman, he was he was a starter on the defense. So Bob was here that year of Rudy, and while the story of him getting into school and all the work he did and gotten everything out on the football field. A lot of it obviously is true, but it was Hollywood it up a little bit, so some of us that know all that kind of went on, you know, you kind of say, well, okay, I get it. You know, it's Hollywood. They got to kind of spruce it up a little bit. But again, to your point, it's not as awe like while here as it is everywhere else when people see it for the first time, Well, listen, man, I knew I could ask you anything and you'd have a great answer. And for people that I think I understood after working with you for a year, even though again we didn't get to really see each other, but we talked a bunch and then spend some time together last year, I can understand why you were so successful and likable on the air and people just and I noticed that when I was with you on some of the Westwood games and also doing college games with you, like all the coaches wanted to talk to you. Because I think that's one of the reasons why people have successful shows, because their personality gets to a point where real life comes through. And you saw that with you every day and your family, and it's just one of those things where I think when you're real on the air, people see that and they gravitate to you. And I noticed that just working with you, So I really appreciate that about you. Mike. You're great at what you do. And thanks so much for spending some time with us. Man, Oh my pleasure. And listen. I got to thank my kids and they're still trying to get money out of me because I told them at a young age when I did the radio and TV, I'm using them as content. They will be talked about, good and bad for laughs. So I made sure I did that. Oh it's great. Thanks again, Mike, Catch up soon, man. Thanks say. I knew we would be able to cover a variety of subjects with Mike and he would have a great take on all of them, including being a grandfather, not having to change diapers anymore. You could tell just listening to Mike his post ESPN life. Things are going great. Involved in a lot of different things, including calling Sunday night games for Westwood One. He did the Tampa Bay game the other night, and also discussed his thoughts on his days with the Philadelphia Eagles, playing with Reggie White, his take on Jalen Hurts, and the current Eagles. Like me, he thinks right now, the Eagles are the best team in the NFL, and like me, he's not sure what to make of the Cardinals through four games. But the good news is the Cardinals are two and two. They haven't played their best football, Maybe the second half of the Carolina game as a springboard to starting to look like the team we saw the first half of twenty twenty one. We are presented by bet MGM, the official sports betting partner of the Arizona Cardinals, and by Hila River Resorts and Casinos. Please go to your podcast platform and rate us. We'd also like to hear about future guests you'd like to hear from on the show. Give us your thoughts on your podcast platform. You can also follow us on Twitter at pash pod Our. Thanks to broadcasting legend Mike Golick for his time, and thanks again to you for listening to another edition of the Dave Pash Podcast. All Right,