The Daily ZeitgeistSeduced By Bad Propaganda (with Matt Lieb) 08.27.24
In episode 1732, Jack and Miles are joined by Matt Lieb to discuss the subject of his podcast Bad Hasbara and more!
LISTEN: Summer Rain by Zimmer90
Someone was talking about uh, talking about Champagne Supernova on Twitter today and I was like, what are you doing? Like it's a great songs.
It's about the songs I never heard of, you know what exactly. I'm not going to defend those because I don't know, but the ones I know that they came at a good time in my life. Yeah. Yeah, shout out to Oasis back when you had to buy a whole album for two songs.
Yeah, it's only twenty dollars.
Whoa where were you going the warehouse? Yeah?
I was going to wear I was going to Sam Goodie. Oh hell yeah we had a Sam Goodie by.
Oh hey, sis is that something?
Yeah?
Oh wow, Oh you're an Oasis scriptwriting to establish a new character.
Oh hey, his eyes light up. We was gonna cool the band?
Oh a brov but oh I sees yeah, ohis we met Belle Hooks and go.
Into black feminism? Yeah? Oh, sister, I said, wait a second, wait why a moumy white? Why? Oh yeah.
The thing is they all have like a Manchester accent, Like I'm supposed to know what the fuck that is.
It's hard, like comes the nerve of them talking about that accent that.
Hey, what's up, pal? You want to get freaking wasted? Bro? Go to the pack? Yeah, there we go. It is that's Manchester by the Sea, I think, Yeah, that's a different Manchester.
Hello the Internet, and welcome to season three point fifty two, episode two of Dirt as production of iHeart Radio. This is the podcast where were taking deep dive into American chair consciousness. And it is Tuesday, August twenty seventh, twenty twenty four, which of course means it's the day that we find out if Oasis is actually getting back together.
First of all, still don't fucking know f.
Eight twenty four. What the fuck is that? Just a random assortment of numbers.
There's no fucking twenty seventh month, You fucking weirdos, you fools. Oh they did it euro style anyway. Today, if it isn't Oasis Reunion Day, it is National po de crem Day. Shout out to another wonderful dessert dish, and also shout out Georgia because it's National peach Day. Yeah yeah, get The summer is the time the window is shortening for good pitches for people who go and frequent the farmers market.
Probably the highest ratio of like how good it gets during in season versus like how good it is out season?
Oh, any anything? Currently, like it's any months months render some of the sweetest legion peach. I can eat a peach for hours.
To quote castor Troy and a face off Jesus, Oh my god.
Yeah yeah.
And then I think they like isolate that to try and get his voice, and so you hear him say it like twenty times, and now it's stuck in my head. And sometimes I'll just say it under my breath.
And my wife will be like, what I like, not said, I wish said beach had showers. Beach, I wish it's beach had showers. Anyways, my name is Jack O'Brien AKA.
They rally round the JD with the dixie cup of cum that is courtesy.
Of Blackrony on the discord.
Shout out to you, Shout out to the Republicans with their little dixie cup.
With j D com where they were like, got them, got them? What is that? Now he's weird.
I'm still fucking you guys, so strange. Anyways, I'm thrilled to be joined as always by my co host, mister Miles Grass.
It's Miles Gray. With a belly still full of Dodger dogs. It's the Lord of Lancersham and the show Gun with no gun. Miles Gray, thank you so much for just a.
Whole bag of them just down there right.
I was content, cargo pants on. I was thinking of shamelessly just taking filling my pockets, my cargo pants pockets with hot dogs with dogs throwing out because yeah, no buns, just the dogs loose.
Brice takes them down like Kobe Ashi, breaks them in back and then just dips the bun in water. Yeah yeah, Miles, we are thrilled to that voice saying no buns. His famous catchphrase is one of our favorite guests. Very funny comedian the host of the podcast The Frontcast, Pod Yourself with Gun, Pod Yourself, The Wire, and his latest podcast, Bad Hasbara, which happens to be the most moral pod cast in existence and of all time. Please welcome one of the funniest people doing it anywhere.
It's Matt said Baby. Francesca and Matt Lee got a baby and after she came from ball what's up?
Wow?
That wasn't that was your birth announcement?
Yes, that's how I announced to everyone that my baby was born. And she came from my balls.
Like, thanks, we didn't we know in case people were like, cause you wanted to say, is that your baby? Yeah? From your ball?
Oh yeah, from both from my ball, one ball single yeah, although I mean it's only one sperm, so brilliant.
Only came from one burn, one ball, one burn.
Yeah, one of the balls. You never know left not a right nut. That's the thing about it.
It's it's like, uh, you know the way uh, if you're left handed or right handed, that's how you know which ball. That's how you know.
It's like a firing squad. You know, everyone shoots, but no one knows who's actually got a real bullet and who's got a bully right.
And that is what I used to when I was a bully. Instead of saying head or gut, I would say left nut or right nut?
Which one do you want me to justing when I was a bully, when I was.
Gut.
You know, I was a big time bully man. But yeah, I'd be like, which shoelace do you want? Untied loser and bully sick bully ship I was doing. Yeah, it's like good will hunting.
He's like, yeah, yeah, Jack O'Brien made me choose the ranch at a belt. I said both because fuck him nets Why.
You know what I said, flick both my nuts.
Yeah, flick both my nuts. I wish I could. I can't really do the act.
No, that was perfect. I have it. Yeah, all right, and we're gonna be.
You're gonna be reading Gordon Wood, regagitating Gordon Wood, you know.
Yeah, how do you like them apples? All right?
When you're gonna read Zin and it's gonna blow your hair back and it's like everybody's rich in by Okay.
Not everyone? Hey man, what what up? Though? It's great to have you.
I'm so excited to be back. I love you guys. You know, love love talking to you guys about stuff.
Yeah, and we're gonna talk to you about your podcast.
Okay, okay, yeah, okay in the stadium at the moment. Yeah, what is it? That's that's the only question I've got written down? Yeah, what is it? What does that mean? And is it bad?
I mean your title says it, but is it like bad like the Michael Jackson album title?
Yeah, is it bad? That means good?
Imagine redo that album cover is bbing it? And Yahoo with the changes that ship. I'm gonna make that on my phone right now.
Wasn't I a miss at the time, or were people like all right, let's see where he's going with that.
Yeah. I just remember as a kid, I was so stoked because I was like, yo, let's need to like it. Fulled my ass. Yeah, I was.
Yes, this is the most I've ever liked an album.
Is how much I like that album When it dropped, I couldn't name. I'm trying to think of what were the other good songs on that album, because I think I put on.
A concert of that in my neighborhood, just me and my friend lip syncing two songs that we didn't really know the words.
Are you ever bought Michael Jackson album before? So I don't know what his albums are all the way through. I only know, like you know, the hits, but there's so many hits that it's like.
Oh yeah, this, yeah, okay, because I'm definitely I'm like Tiler, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know the way you make me feel. That's on Smooth Criminal leave Me Alone Alone?
That video I thought that was off Dangerous leave Me Alone, the one where he's like going, he's on the ride.
It's on the bad rematched I'm looking at the bad. I thought it was too but that was off dangerous man. Anyway, off the walls.
As before we get to it, though, Matt, we do like to get to know our guests a little bit better by asking them, what's your favorite Michael Jackson album? Now, what's your What's something from your search history that is revealing about who you are?
Sure? How to fix a car? D I y, So.
That seems specific enough to me. I think I think that was probably a successful search.
And yeah, yeah, no, it all worked out. I eventually got there to what I was actually asking was how come my engine keeps overheating? Yeah, and the answer was I don't know. Man, could be a lot of things where so so YouTube was very helpful in that. Yeah, man, that's that's the most recent thing.
That was Google A at a certain point, Yeah, just lost all confidence.
Yeah, it was it really.
It's as it turns out, you guys, there's a reason why, you know, mechanics are get paid so much. Yeah, it's because they, like they know about cars and stuff. You think you can like, I'm overconfident enough that I'm like I could learn this from YouTube. Videos, right, Yeah, and it turns out you can't. It turns out, I mean you can, but not without doing more damage to your your car than you would have if you had just taken it somewhere.
Yeah, this is the door once. Oh I could do that from YouTube.
Yeah, yeah, okay it it almost closed all the way.
Oh that's good. Okay, okay, the door was the wrong size. Yeah, that ship down. You shaved it down and it was crooked as fuck and it closed almost.
You can learn a lot of things on YouTube, so I was like, I bet I could also learn why why come my car keep overheating?
And it turns out fucking can't? Dude. Wait, this is I remember a little bit of insight because I have we talked on the and this is the car that you had to retrieve from up north.
Yeah, that I just got back from up north selling.
Oh yeah right, so you had you drove up there it broke down, but then you had to get back down. You swapped out a car with like a family friend and yeah, yeah I had to go back up again you to deal with.
Yeah, so I took Francesca's mom's car back to LA so that I could like be around for the baby, and then I just drove it back up and then dealt with my car by selling it to car Max, which is like it sounds from that you're just like, oh, okay, problem solved. You don't understand how awful this entire experience has been. Like I just slept probably eleven hours in a row, and not because I didn't get enough sleep the other two nights. It was literally I was just so relieved to have everything done that my body was just like we're gonna shut down, Like some of our organs haven't been resting for about a month. So it was very stressful. But that's literally all of my overrated, underrated. Everything you're gonna ask me is about this fucking car.
Car Yeah, perfect, and the overheating. It's like why your baby have a fever? Like it's just like I don't know, man.
Yeah, it's literally yeah yeah, because there's like a thousand things. It's like, you know, they have all this like diagnostic equipment, and at the end of the day, nobody figured it out. They went to the mechanics three times and everyone was just like, yeah, I.
Don't know, man, Like usually I can make something up to get your money, but like right, fucking confound. I don't say this, I'm confounded.
Well, the West part was that they actually every time they gave it back to me, they said, okay, problem solved.
The problem was not solved. It was just smoke. Billow handed you the key. Yeah it was bad. It was bad. Look, usually I make something up, but you look like a man who's watched three to four YouTube videos all the way through.
I can tell you know a thing or two about cars from watching this guy on YouTube who has a very thick Boston accent.
So therefore it knows about cars. You know, these guys, what is something you think is underrated?
Underrated? I'll tell you what's underrated, you guys. The meter on your car that says H and C with the with the okay, so yeah, okay. So as it turns out, H and C is hot and cold. And the second thing is, that's not a sailboat, you guys. That is like that, that's a thermometer. Yeah okay, yeah, So I wish they had made that more clear because the CH and C part, I've always been like, oh no, look it looks like I'm I'm full on h that must be good.
It's like, oh, it's giving me a sailing report. It must be for high c's or yeah, smooth sailing. Oh the way to God. I don't know why I get the sailing report on my dashboard here. Yeah. Yeah.
It turns out that is a meter that tells you how hot engine is, and so that's honestly one of the most important things on your dashboard.
People think it's the thing that says f.
Or or ease turn out because yeah, you can like fill up gas and stuff, but heat.
Don't pay attention to that one either, But go ahead.
Yeah, that heat meter is real. That's real important. It's a hot cold yeah. Yeah, and it's very underrated because you just think it's like I don't know, you know, I'll let the I'll let the scientists deal with that number.
It's like the check engine light, like you check engine. Yeah. I treat that check engine light sometimes like my car is trying to scam me. Yeah, you're just trying to get my Yeah. Yeah, No, I don't care if all of my tires are flat. I want them all to have five pounds of pressure in each tire. Okay, it helps attract I love the.
Check engine light because it's like you do want to bring it in, but only because you turn that light off.
Yeah, They're like, no, man, you're cooling just all fucked up. Have you seen the H and the CE too. I don't know, dude. I tried full on H all the time. I'm always putting a lot of H in the car.
But I have one tire that consistently gets low and guess what I do. I keep filling it back up, the bag up and everything every whack.
This is how I know where the same fucking person tell me why I got the same I was screw in one of my tires that is causing a slow leak. But part of me is like, if I could, there's a homing up the street, wh will pass that ship for thirty bucks? Like I just want it? And he's like boo boom boom. He's like, now get on. In my mind, I'm like, yeah, but what I really need is a new set of tires. So I'm waiting for the indicators to get worn down, so I'm like, I'm just gonna swap out new tires. And I'm also currently doing the thing where I fill it up every week. And the guy knows me because like I'll buy a bottle of water inside the gas station. I'm like, yo, broken, you just charge me for the gas because don't have seventy five cents and coins And he's like, oh yeah, I gotcha, yeah from the desk. It was something I den'ty. I hate. I hate when they pretend they can't right out of my hand. It's like, oh you want me, sir.
You got to buy something and then we'll do cash back and then get changed. And it's like, I know you have a button mother, Yeah.
I know your fingers on it, dude, right, yeah, yeah, you're caressing it by donut.
You're dramatically caressing it.
Have you ever done that, gone into a gas station and do like a gilt purchase, like because you're gonna ask for something. I every time I've done that, for some reason, I buy the worst fucking thing in the store. Like I somehow find the dustiest item in the gas station mart and I'm like, yeah, these spicy old coated peanuts, sure good man, And they're like, dude, really and they so much dust. I don't know why I have like a X men power to find like the oldest thing in a gas station market? Right, well, can I get that ship? You got in here. You think you're doing a favor. I don't know, man, just got some old snap. I'll eat it in front of you. Man.
Yeah, I know, I'm washing my car using uh, your squeegee, and it's only supposed to be the windows and I'm doing literally the whole car.
So I will has a favorite to you.
I will buy this dusty part, hard boiled egg and a ziplock bag.
For some reason.
They do have hard boiled eggs at gas sometimes for some.
But they do have it. What Matt is something? What was the one we said underrated? Yeah? It was overrated? Here? What do you think is overrated?
In Redwood City? Very overrated, had a very good rating.
That's so because our most recent guests said it was underrated.
So well, listen, they're wrong. You know who your most recent guests probably works for.
I'm sorry, the one on El Camino Reale.
That's that's that one overrated sued by the Marshals. The Marshals, that's right, Yes, okay, I will say Dulce who works there, is very nice and she's she's doing her best. Uh, and I think she's a wonderful manager and or businesswoman and or a person who runs the front count. But I will say I took it over three times. Every time they thought it was all done. Every they said all everything fixed. Then I would drive for thirty minutes and then I would go full on h again and I go, oh, that's bad.
I know that now. That's not a sailboat. Yeah, yeah, you lied to me, you tell you well, oh sir, that's a sailboat.
Actually yeahoat, you're not in a sailboat, are you.
Yeah, so you're fine, then shut the fuck up, dude and get on it.
But you were able to offload the your ube.
I so then I went up and got I got a quote from CarMax and uh I drove the car first.
I got it washed at like.
A yeah yeah, yeah, yeah it was and then you know, I did the vacuum, which of course I had to buy a fucking donut.
Yeah to get the vacuum. Yeage. Yeah.
They were like, oh you guse it only takes change. I was like, I know you're lying, and then uh, yeah, I took it to the car Max. Great thing about this car is that, uh it only over heats after like forty five minutes of driving. Yeah, so I took it in there and they like checked it all out. They're like, yeah, it's just definitely a seventeen hundred dollars car. And then they gave me the money and uh, and that paid for the new radiator.
That I put in there. That didn't help, So you net it out to zero.
I needed, you know what, two hundred dollars. Two hundred dollars. So everyone's eating chili's tonight, right, Yeah.
All right, Matt, we're gonna take a quick break and when we come back, we're gonna.
Talk about bad has Bar. We'll be right back.
And we're back, and Matt, it feels like we should probably start pretty basic with just what.
What did you?
Okay, news, can you explain to me what is it?
Jew who was Moses Abraham? Is that the same Abraham from my book of ghost Stories?
That's exact same Abraham as you know, fifteenth President of.
The United States. Just explain what has Burrah is?
Yes, So loosely, the word hasbara or hasbara or however you want to pronounce it comes from the Hebrew word meaning to explain, So it's like an explanation and so that's it's essentially what it is is. It's propaganda. It's an Israeli like public relations spin, just the way you know, the United States government has its own public relations, it does its own spin. The Israeli government does it as well. The difference is that within Israel, their kind of internal public relations is different than they're outward facing public relations. The stuff that you know, they they send to you know, Western English speaking audience is going to be different than a Hebrew audience at home. So yeah, hasbara is just it's a euphemism for propaganda, and it is something that for a while. It's only recently that the word has become kind of poisonous.
You know.
Now people know that that's what they call propaganda out there, so you know, so they they don't they don't say it as much as they used to, but they you know, for a while there, it was just the euphemism of choice, because everyone would would say, like, we need a way to explain the actions of our country to people who maybe you know, don't understand why we need to bomb this hospital or you know, mass arrest a bunch of people without trial, stuff.
Like that, and just to ensure the constant flow of like economic and military support too. In the other direction, to help just always kind of keep the levels at a place where people in the United States don't get so incensed with things that they really start demanding.
Right, especially stuff that you know, if it were done by any other country in which like the American people or Western people don't have kind of an automatic like sympathy for you would be like, hey, I demand that this country stop doing that, and hasbara is meant to be like, well, here's why we need to right, See, it's the explanation for things that you know, you see a version of events on social media and you go like, damn, that seems like super cruel and bad. But there has to be a reason for it, like why why would you know, why would the Israeli people do this? It must there must be more to it, And they go, there is more to it, and here's our explanation why this is okay.
Yeah, just fill in those banks exactly, more sophisticated, more tailored to each of the countries and specifically the US.
Yeah, the US and the West in general, like yeah, because of specific like Western sentiments and morality like we you know, as a Western liberal states like Europe or you know, the European Union, like in the UK and America and Canada. You have like a certain morality that you know, we all kind of profess to have where it's like killing killing innocence is bad and you know stuff like that, and yeah, and and you know, so you need someone to say why in some cases that's okay, or why what you're seeing is not actually what you saw and you shouldn't believe anyone but us.
Yeah, and you guests hosted an episode of It could Happen here with Sharen Lana Unis.
That's right, and you.
Talked about your own experience with has Bara and going back to a birthright the Birthright trip, that's right. Can you can you talk about birthright what that is? And like, I don't know that was a helpful putting that I knew what birthrate was, or I thought I knew what birthright was, but I hadn't really put it in the context of Hasbara, Yeah until I kind of heard you talk about it.
Yeah.
So the Birthright Trip, for those who don't know, is a free trip that young Jews from I think age is like as young as eighteen, as old as twenty six, something like that. The Israeli government will pay for Jews all around the world to come visit Israel. And it's like an all expenses paid trip in which you go there and you have a very what's the word curate dyl curated, a curious, a curated trip to Israel where you see kind of what they want you to see, you know, you see the nightlife in Tel Aviv, and you see the kibbutzus in the north and the the Masada, and you see all of these like amazing ancient artifacts of Jewish history, and you feel like close to it.
You'd see the.
Whaling Wall and and you are you know you you do if you're a non religious Jew like me. You put on to fill in for the first time, which is like the this wrap, this rappy thing you put around your arm, and you wear this little box on your head.
It looks like a GoPro.
And and you Davin for the first time and all this stuff, and it's like it's an experience that is one meant to either get you to move to Israel or get you to go back and tell everyone how great Israel is. I mean that is essentially the trip, and the trip that I took was people who were all secular. There was very few of us were like practicing or like, you know, none of us were like kosher, right, sure, we were all trace and so like it was meant to be. Like, you know, it doesn't matter whether or not you're even be an atheist. The point is this is your land and it's your right by blood to be here. And the craziest thing that happened was that there was a giant like event, a mega event at an arena in which all of the birthright trips got together and the head speaker, like the headliner was Benjamin Nettan Yahoo, who was Prime Minister at that time.
This isn't like twenty e twenty twelve.
This motherfucker has been the prime minister for so long Church.
Yeah it is. It is wild that like we keep saying, you know.
This is the only democracy in the Middle East, and it's like is it because this guy has been like how the dictator every like forever dude, and.
Its kind of yeah that that story blows my mind because it just well I guess it. It puts in the proper context like how important, like how much of a priority this narrative is this, like yes, creating building this narrative like convincing people they have Net and Yahoo speaking to children, yes, yes.
Like who could make you feel more important than the leader of the telling y'all as young people, like the future is in your hands, and like the future of Israel is in your hands.
It was like and I remember that was the moment in which I was like, oh damn, Like I knew that getting the youth Jewish youth of the world on their side was like important to them, but I didn't know how important because I was like, this is the Prime Minister is gonna like come here, Like he doesn't have better things to do than to talk to a bunch of like brats about like about how great the country is and about how they're Actually he kept telling us, He's like, you're all from great countries, but you're from here. This is where you're from, which was for me, you know, another kind of like red flag, because.
You had those moments like throughout it, like like yes, like were you kind of cynical going into it? Are you kind of nube or you had your own worldview? And when things kind of butted up against that, You're like, wait a second.
At this point, I was, you know, cynical enough about Israel because I'd been to like college and I'd gotten some perspective on, you know, the the nuances of the Israel Palestine conflict. I wasn't like a full anti Zionist Jew at that point. I was just someone who was more critical than a lot of my peers and U but not you know, critical and enough to you know, pass to pass up a free trip. And so you know, for me, I was I was on the lookout for like some of these things. But I was also there because I truly was like, no, they're right, I need to see this with my own eyes. I mean, that's how it's like build. It's like, come see Israel for yourself, as if like what you're seeing somehow negates the things you're not seeing that you've heard about.
You know.
It's like, come see South Africa for yourself. It's like, yeah, this place seems pretty great as long as you're not in a bantoo stand.
You know, who are those people in that prison? Bad guys? Bad guys are there. You know, we got great whites. You can see great whites down here.
Yeah, Oh they're surf down here, you know. But yeah, it was like for me, I was trying to. You know, I was trying to have a free trip, and I was trying to like a little bit be like I want to see it for myself. And I think for me it had the opposite effect that they were going for, because what they were going for was you're going to see how great this place is, and then you're going to start questioning every time someone criticizes it as like, oh, they're lying about us. And this was something that Benjamin Netnahu directly said to us. He said, you know, there's a lot of lies out there, and the only way you can fight lies is with the truth. So tell people what you saw here. And then he proceeded to tell us what we saw there, and yeah, here's a bullet.
A democracy that was flourishing with opportunities for many people, a diverse population.
That kind of right, And it was a lot of you know, stuff that was going to appeal to young liberal, you know, college age kids, which was like you saw gay people existing, you saw women with the bikinis and not being told that they had to cover their face. It was very much like compared to those Arabs over there, right, you know, that was like, yeah, that was the thing was we are you know, even the phrase the most you know, they say, with the only democracy in the Middle East, everything is like in the Middle East, everything is in the region in comparison to the Arabs, And that is meant to appeal to a Western audience, which is by and large bias against Arabs and Muslims. So we're more willing to believe that, you know, everything Arabs do is backwards and problematic, you know, and therefore they are less deserving of our sympathies.
And I think that's an important piece of context. Like this is for people who disagree with Israeli policy, like in a way, you know, yeah, that Israel is very protective of this is what you're up again, Like yeah, this level like they fund children who unremarkable children not to be unremarkable anybody. You're just a kid, and they treat you like an Olympic athlete, Like, yes, better than an Olympic athlete. Olympic athletes are like this food fucking sucks, Like yeah, you.
Know what I mean.
So I don't know, that was just an important piece of context for me in the whole, like that. It is a massive and vast propaganda machine.
Yeah, itself is about propagandizing. I mean it is compare it to like selling you a timeshare. You know, it's like they they want to hard sell you on the idea of moving there or telling people that it's good, and you know, it's once you kind of dig deeper into like well.
Wait, what, why do you know? What?
Why why do you care where I live? That's when you start running into what is going to be the main issue with the Zionist project, which is that they need to atabt publish and maintain a Jewish demographic majority in Israel because it's the only way they can continue to be a quote democratic state at least within the within the borders of you know, actual Israel, like forty eight or whatever, and not in the occupied territories obviously, because that's just straight apartheid, but within Israel, like without that demographic majority, their whole fear is that like Arabs who have a higher birth rate are gonna you know, be more and more. There's gonna be more Arabs, more Arab voters, and therefore they're going to vote out the Jews.
And so it is.
Part of the project to get us to like uproot our lives and move to Israel right, and they do that in a series of ways that I find to be like blatantly anti Semitic. I mean, the birthright trip is at least them trying to like, you know, catch more flies with honey. The vinegar is them trying to convince you that everybody hates you, Like, no matter where you are in the world, if you're a Jew, you are hated by your neighbors. And I feel that that kind of instilling that paranoia is like blatantly anti Semitic.
Yeah, And I think, I mean, like that's where you kind of see the levels at which it works, right, because you'll have Americans in the United States that have been exposed to that who sort of continue to carry that torch of like putting forward those talking points and also getting their friends around them to be more sympathetic because they can say, oh, I know someone who's been to Israel. They've only told me great things about it. So that's like the first layer of like inoculating people like towards any sort of criticisms. And then you get to a moment like October seventh, and people really begin to shift their focus there and then like you see the propaganda and the talking points come out in a very aggressive way, Like what, how do you see that shift? Because obviously this is something like the term has been like you since like the eighties. But what I'm and a lot of critics of like these government have always pointed at like this policy of basically gaslighting people and be like, no, that's you're not seeing what you're seeing kind of thing, right, yeah, but what is that like now? Like, how have you seen it ramped up? Because I mean when you've come on, we've talked about like what's happening in Gaza from time to time, not always specifically about like the propaganda dimensions, but now what like just how are you seeing like the evolution of that starting from or you know, October to even now, because I'm sure there's like moments where if things get even more aggressive or slightly more wacky or whatever, but yet.
So like, the interesting thing about the attack on the seventh was that at that moment, you know, the day of the seventh and even in subsequent weeks after, the Israeli government had the goodwill of everybody in the West because they saw, you know, a terrorist attack that you know, no matter what way you slice it, you did see innocent people being killed by hamas and you know, different groups within Gaza, and so people were just like, oh, I'm against terrorists, right, and so that goodwill being squandered was the really interesting thing that subsequent to the seventh the amount of death and destruction that was immediately like reigning upon the Palestinians in the Gaza strip like very quickly turned people. And I think the Haspar had a lot to do with it because they the Israeli PR machine was just not prepared, like people had not been media trained in a while. Is my guess that you had people going on these like you know, news magazines and talk you know, news talk shows and panels and whatnot, with no sense of I have to present this for a Western audience so that they understand it. Instead, you had people asking simple questions, like you know anchors on the BBC. I remember one of them asked, I think enough Tolly Bennett is an Israeli politician, like well, what are you guys doing to minimize the deaths of civilians in Gaza? And he just yelled at him. He just said like, come on, man, you know what the you're going to ask me that? After what they did, you're going to ask me that, you know, like you're going to care about that. And it was just such a it was came from such a place of just being tired of wearing the mask that people, I think started seeing more and more the way in which Israeli society was just like, we're okay with murdering these people, like way more okay than you guys thought we were, you know. Yeah, And so after the seventh you saw people, you know, being told basically not to believe their eyes. What they're seeing is, you know, not what they're actually seeing. Everything that you think, you know is backwards. If you see a video that shows a hospital being bombed, you have to not immediately blame Israel for doing it. You have to hold withhold your judgment until we tell you whether or not we did it right. And then you know, just kind of saying it was hamas and they kept doing it. And the thing is, in the past, whenever there have been any of flare ups, so to speak, in.
Israel or in Gaza.
A lot of the war crimes that people have been exposed to in the West, there's been an outcry at first, and then there's been a wait wait, wait, let's get all the fact straight first, and then a few weeks of radio silence where it goes out of the news cycle, and then they admit, Like, for example, the murder of Out zero journalist shrin abu Achlet was big news when it first happened. It just seemed to be a straight execution of this famous journalist. And then the Israelis denied it. They said we didn't do this, They said it was a you know, Palestinian plot to make us look bad. And then enough time had passed in between, you know, that story got out of the news cycle, and then eventually it was just I think they had no choice but to admit it because of their own journalists within Israel saying yeah, this is definitely us right, and people stopped. You know, it wasn't a big news story anymore, so people were just like, oh, we forgot it. We moved on to whatever other thing. Because of just the scale of the destruction. Since the seventh it has not left the news cycle. So they've found themselves not having the time to wait for people to forget right. And so you see very clearly how the sausage is made, where every time there's some bad news about Israel. Then they counter it with like something bad is happening to Israel via the international community. For example, when the ICJ International Court of Justice finally came out with their uh, you know, preliminary ruling on whether or not this could be a genocide and they said yes, it could be. Immediately after, maybe less than twenty four hours, there were there was charges all over the Israel Israeli media and over Western media that UNRA, which is the UN's you know, basically Palestinian refugee group that like helped Palestinian refugee specifically, was complicit in October seventh, like UNRA is the UN did. October seventh was like the big thing. It was everywhere. All of a sudden, everyone was talking about rapidly the United States stopped funding UNRA all of this stuff, and then it came the story was like talking about whether or not UNRA was complicit in these attacks on the seventh, and it stopped. We stopped talking about how the ICJ just said it looks like this is very possibly a genocide.
Happened, right right, yeah, exactly.
And so you know that the strategy I think of like trying to stuff the media with a bunch of counter points, a bunch of talking points is rubbed off on people in a way where they're they just feel like they're insulting our intelligence, you know. And I think if you watch Piers Morgan you see a perfect example of that.
This guy is.
A total fucking shill. Like he is someone who loves Trump, he loves anything conservative, he hates woke pee pooh. You know, he's just like but with him, what he likes more than anything else is himself and his own He thinks he's a genius. So when an Israeli PR guy comes on there and can't can tell him exactly how many Hamas have died, but can't tell him how many civilians have died, even though it's like, well wouldn't the number be the rest of the number is therefore civilians, And he's like, no, I can't say, And it's like, but you know how many Hamas. There's a great video where he's just like he can't believe that this guy does not have a better answer for him, And Piers Morgan is like, since the seventh has been has been famous for asking every guest whether or not they condemn Hamas, and even he has been like, no, you have to at least lie to me. You have to like be good. You at least have to give me something plausible. The Hasbara has to be good so I can explain to people why you guys are good. If you're not going to give me that, then I'm gonna yell at you. And I feel like that is a lot of a lot of people recently.
All right, let's let's take a quick break. We'll be right back, and we're we're back.
Hell yeah. One thing you know, I realized too of like the effect of the PR machine is like especially in like you know, like in the United States, Hollywood specifically, are there a lot of groups that are called like Creatives for Peace or these other groups that are clearly doing like the bidding of like what like the Israeli government or people who are sympathetic to the Zionist project or like you know, there's like the most recent thing was that Emmy nominated news thing It's Bisan from Gaza and I'm Still Alive, was nominated for an Emmy And this group came out that's like Creatives for Peace, like Creative Community for Peace. Yeah, Creative the CCP came out and said, hey, we really think this is like the Emmys, like the the Academy should really actually take back this nomination because this person is tied to like terrorist organizations or whatever merely for this is a this is a like a news piece that like won an Edward R. Merle Award. Like we're talking about legit journalism right on the ground.
This is someone who is not a journalist who like flew into Gaza for you know, oh, this is a Palestinian. This is an actual on the ground gaz and who is there giving a first person account of what's happening.
Right, And so like you see this like these weird moments like why would they why would these people get together to then like you know, like Deborah Messing and like yeah, Selma Blair like to it, and you're like what and but they are clearly you know, they're they they are acting on whatever they feel is the most beneficial to the optics for what is happening right.
And this group, in particular, Creative Community for Peace, is a group that has their origins in the beginnings of the BDS movement. So as soon as BDS started happening, you know, people boycott divestment sanction, and one of the key components of that is a cultural boycott of Israel. And by the way, these are tactics that were used by people who were against apartheid in South Africa, right, and this is it's a very effective tactic. In order to counter that, Creative Community for Peace has been like, we're we got to make sure that we get the celebrities on our side. So we're gonna do everything we can to cozy up the celebrities so that there the entire Creative Community for Peace, like name is some bullshit.
They're not about peace.
What they are about is making sure that BDS is not a tactic that catches on. Right, it's a reaction to a non violent political movement for ending of apartheid in Israel. And they're like no, no, no, no, no, that bad.
We're about peace, right right, Exactly, Like that woman shouldn't have an emmy. It's like, yeah, anything to do with it.
This twenty four year old journalist in Gaza whose videos are I survived another bombing. Yeah, it's bad because and it's the great thing about that story is they couldn't even call her Hamas because that wasn't they tie her to the PFLP, right, and so it's like they can't they can't, you know, they usually just say, oh they're Hamas, this person is Hamas, but in this case, they're like, we got a video of her speaking at a rally, right, and so let's we're gonna call her a terrorist.
And yeah, yeah, but like you just see these like talking points or sort of stories either intentionally covered or not covered, Like you also see how that's acting on our media. Like the prisoner prisoner abuse scandal, Yeah, fucking was like nowhere right, yeah, and like it took me reading like many other things. I mean, like most people were talking about it, but like if you were watching MSNBC, read the New York Time or Washington Post or CNN, you probably got very little on it. And for all of the emphasis that was happening on like you know, sexual assaults on the seventh like and the like, the weird lack of visibility on something that was happening that was documented even on video was like very alarming. It had me really feeling like truly I'm like, oh shit, like this is this is fucking wild. Like I'm seeing shit, I'm reading reports even from like Haretz or whatever in Israel, and I'm not We're not. We're barely getting anything like that here, and you realize too, like to the point of what Hasbara is meant to do. It's also for audiences, especially in the United States, because the United States is like Israel's golden goose, number one supporter. Yeah, like, it's really important that people in the United States that the tide doesn't turn against them. And it does feel like in polling most people are saying like, yeah, we need to knock this shit off, like yeah, seems immediately, and so it feels even more strange in America too, to be like we all know this is bad, we're all saying this shouldn't be happening, and then we even have our own politicians being like noah, no, no, it's all good, like don't worry, like right, just just avert your eyes children, because the adults are actually doing something. And that's what I think is really insidious part of how it's affecting the discourse here because not only that anyone who advocates for like Palestinian personhood is treated like some kind of pariah or threat to other people's safety, right, And I think, yeah, and I think another dimension of all of this working in conjunction is a lot of the emphasis when talking about what's happening in Gaza the West Bank is like to not talk about the main struggle between Palestinian people and what is happened, like what the Israeli military is doing to them. It's always like shifting the focus to, well, you know what Iran is actually blocking all of this, and it's like, well, no, no, Like, the thing that I'm really concerned about is watch, like I'm seeing really disturbing images and accounts come out of Gaza in the West Bank.
Right, I'm seeing literal like video of babies being killed in Gaza, Palestinian children being killed on a regular basis.
Rawful shit. But again, like all like our media will pick up talking points to then do the same thing because obviously in the same time, you know, like APAC and groups like that were huge supporters of the invasion of Iraq. Because theres always to be like, yeah, yeah, exactly, that's that's it now, exactly, thank you, it's exactly they write this. Yeah.
No, I mean it is like the Hasbara is meant to make people in the West complacent to what happens in Israel, what the Israeli government chooses to do and in Gaza and whatnot, and you know, things like limited coverage of what happened and that I was style timon are you know I can't pronounce anything good? Yeah, But the prison in Israel that in which we there's a video of not just the sexual assault of a Polycinian prisoner, but also video of then the you know, people in the Kanesset and you know, Israeli parliament debating whether or not they're allowed to do that right, right, right? And it brings to mind like us debating in the United States are we allowed to torture? Are we allowed to have Guantanamo? And and you know, totally missing out on the question of like are these people human or not human? Do they have the same rights as us? Or do they not have the same rights as us? And it's like when you have a society that's just decided, you know, takes as a matter of course that Arabs are not equal human beings, then of course that's not the question they're going to ask. They're not going to ask is it right? Right, They're gonna ask, well, is it legal? And you know, so I think the United States and Israel not that different in terms of the way in which we have a bias against a racist bias against Arabs.
And you know.
We we are going to cover a story like that as a couple of bad apples, you know what I mean, as opposed to as a part of a bigger narrative of the Israeli brutality against Palestinians. And the reason that we do that is not because of necessarily because of like some nefarious group. It's not like a the news media all gets together in a cabal, right, right, Like how people you know can quickly veer into the lane of anti Semitism where they just go, oh, the capal of of people getting together and deciding to do no. It's it's very much about the bias that America and American journalists by and large have towards Israel being the good guy. For better or worse, Israel is the one that reflects our values, right, And you know, you can't you can't look at a story like what was happening in that prison as something that exists as part of a larger context. You have to be like, you know, yeah, they got some crazy guys over there, you know, it's too bad.
It's really too bad, you know.
And and it's this kind of refusal to see and condemn the society itself as deeply racist, as deeply deeply supremacist.
We're looking into like a funhouse mirror as Americans like Israel, like Israel's policies too, because look, maybe we see the settler colonial aspirations and we we wreck game recognize game there too. And in the same way when it comes to have reckonings with like true like the actual oppressive systemic forces that act on people, there doesn't matter if it's here or abroad. It's like, unless it's specifically to dehumanize, then it's like, well, look what they don't allow their women to do or look at it. But if it's if it's if it's about actually a self critique or something that we are we have a hand in, like you know, the Israeli military, then it turns into brain gymnastics contortion act where we do everything but have a real discussion around what isn't or who is or is not the person. Although you know, the reflexively, it feels very easy for them, especially American media, to be like, well, you know, Unfortunately they don't look like us. Like the brain thing obviously was good for ratings because like Western European looking people, but anything else, we just have this reflexive switch to say, yeah, the oppressions is kind of part of it.
Yeah, and like well, you know, well, what would you do if you were surrounded by Arabs? Like that's kind of like what they that's their ex explanation for a lot of things is like well if what if what if America was surrounded by Arabs? Like right, yeah, wouldn't you be scared? And wouldn't you do everything you can and build big, big walls to wall yourself off? And that's not necessarily untrue because American states, but the United States, we love to build big walls to keep brown people out.
Absolutely.
The difference is is that like in Israel, when they talk about this stuff, they talk about it as if they are that they have a right to do what is essentially colonialism, and we when people try to put it in the context of like, oh, this is colonialism, then they go no, no, no, no, no, no no, no, this is not this is actually anti colonialism. We are actually indigenous, and so they have to layer on this like bullshit. When it was Zionism was a colonial project explicitly, so you know, this was something that they said back when colonialism was not considered bad. It was considered like how a people did self determination, you know, it was like creating a do you know, creating a colony was just like that's how we are strong, you know. And then once decolonization became kind of the norm, like colonialism became kind of a dirty word, they had to change what they were saying they were doing from you know, colonialism to oh no, no, we're actually an indigenous rights movement, which is like completely bullshit. I mean, it's just like one of those things where you can't you can't And this is Hasbara's I think biggest issue of late is you can't be like we are. You know, we are the liberal bastion of the world. We love everything you love as like a as a leftist. Everything you love is a liberal you know, gay people, women's rights and all this stuff. Bleeding heartshit. We're that. But also we are the outposts of the West and our civilization. We are the only people keeping the mongrel hordes, you know, the Arab, the evil Arab out and you're like you can't actually appeal to These are two different demographics you're trying to appeal to. It's like you're trying to feel appeal to both the fascists and to the lives.
And to the people. It's like, we got a little bit of something for people who believe all people are human beings desert, and we also got a little bit of something for people go these motherfuckers ain't people. Yeah right, Yeah. It like that sort of that balancing act is so it's tricky, yeah, and it just targes sort of stomach or takes seriously a lot of the time because like what is being said it juxtaposed with what is happening.
It just you're like, it's so clearly, it's so clearly lies in propaganda. It's so clearly them trying to like, you know, get you to turn off a part of your brain. And and I think, you know, as this has been the most I've ever seen in terms of people who have kind of woken up to this reality of what Israel like actually is and what they actually are is just like a brutal, right wing apartheid state that its existence is predicated, at least in its current formation, its existence is predicated on the ethnic cleansing and the disenfranchisement of Palestinians. And you know, if you don't know that, you know that now at least a lot of people are waking up to that, and I think, yeah, and it's like, I mean, after a while, you know, you just go like, oh, now I get why. Every time, like, if a family, you know, has one member who is like is a Hamasque guy or a plo guy and they haven't, you know, done an act of terror or they did let's say, a stabbing or something. It's not just a case of Okay, they're going to arrest the guy and he's going to be in jail because he did a crime. They're gonna bulldoze the house of the family. You're just like, what, wait, why why do that? That's not normal. That's not something that like if that happens in the United States, if they're just like, oh, man, that gang member did a shooting, let's bulldoze their house like that shit is you go, Oh, this is a that's not good. This is definitely about something big. Yeah, this is definitely about a land project.
I'm American, and I'm even like, wait, right, is that like leal, Yeah, are you like allowed to do that?
Like why would the whole family gets their house bulldoze? And it's not to say the United States doesn't have you know, tons of history regarding like stealing land. Obviously, I mean we do that. That's how we are here. But it's a you know, it's a question of trying to convince us that it's something else that it's like, oh, you know, the only way to fight terror is to do ethnic cleansing. And that's when you yeah, you know, is.
There anything that's making you feel hopeful? Because from my perspective, it feels like we're like there there was this movement, there were the student protests, there was and as things have settled, the gravitational pool of the Hasbara and just of the sort of legacy mainstream media perspective has pulled things in that direction. Like it feels like we're losing ground, right and like the student protests now have like settled in the mainstream imagination as like people sharing you know, anti Semitic is the word that you see used a lot of the time. So like, how how are you feeling about like the state of the movement as it's currently constituted and just that wholen.
I mean, I'm not like by nature someone who is like optimistic. I just it's it's this is for me has been something that because I've you know, studied it and cared about it for a long time, I've always I've never seen it as like completely intractable. I've always seen it with the view of like, eventually this is going to end. I mean, there's just like you know, but the question of like in my lifetime has always been kind of like I don't know about that, but you know, but I will be honest, I've been a lot more optimistic in the last few months because I had not put as much stock I think into a lot of things that maybe more if you're new to this issue, you might put more stock into something like the student protests or whatnot and go like, oh man, this seems like something could happen. Like I was, like, that's a great thing to me. I've been what I've been putting stock into is kind of the broad American public opinion on this issue is changing because of the continued focus of news media on this, even if it's biased. News media and like social media has been a huge thing for this because the main issue I've always seen is that people don't know about it. People just kind of go on their like more basic assumptions about who the good guys and who the bad guys are, or they like opt out by saying, I don't know, man.
It seems like they've been.
Really kind of for thousands of years and it's very complicated and I'm not going to figure this out. And now I think people are because they're becoming more educated on the subject than seeing with their own eyes what's happening, and because Israel has not improved their pr strategy, I am feeling more hopeful. I'm feeling more and more like they are eating themselves from within it in that society. I've heard from more like left wing Israeli voices than I have in the longest time, and it just seems more and more like the people in the West, who once had a more like like an unconscious bias about preferring the Israelis over the Palestinians, are now having that kind of reversed and are just starting to see Israel for what it is, which is like a racist, apartheid state. And I think that that shift in public opinion is important because at the end of the day, one reason I think Israel's been able to get away with so much is because people just don't care, right, And I'm starting to see that change now. The only worry I have with it has been I want to make sure that people don't fall into the traps that a lot of Israeli's or at least Israeli like media guys set, which is like, act so much like an anti Semitic stereotype that you believe in anti Semitic stereotypes, and act in a way in which you're saying, oh, all Jews believe this because Israelis love to do this, we are representatives of all Jews, and then get people to believe that all Jews support the State of Israel and its actions like that to me is an important facet of like speaking out on this for me because I'm like, I want people to know that Jews are not a monolith and do not like automatically support Israel no matter what they say, no matter what polls they bring out when they say like majority vast majority of Jews, they always say like something along lines of like connect strongly with Israel, and it's like, well, yeah, obviously Israel quote unquote, the you know, the thing from the Bible is different than the modern state of Israel. And also, yeah, any Jewish person is going to have a connection through Judaism to the idea of Israel, ancient Israel specifically, but also, you know, we've been taught about Israel as being like the place that we earned through our blood, you know, and mass extermination attempts over thousands of years in Europe. Like, you're not going to change that overnight, No one's you know. But I do believe that the idea that all Jews automatically support Israel is a complete fabrication that is proliferated by has Barists who want us to all seem like we are in solidarity with one another as like blood Jews, which is just this really fascist like mindset. But yeah, I'm feeling more optimistic because people are more and more speaking out about it or realize that like, Israel is not the good guy, and a lot of Jewish people in the West are actively ashamed of the people that they know who blindly support Israel, and the young people have really made me feel like.
Maybe there's a future here. But yeah, who knows.
All right, Well, appreciate having you on.
I want to point out it's a funny podcast. Is a funny podcast.
We just get cover and.
I do a bit real quick. We're going to do you want to do?
Yeah, just to uh it's to me and bart at my wife. I say stuff like that. It's pretty cool a sound I have a soundboard usually, so.
It's pretty ye. Yeah, you'll love the voice modulator too. Oh I use the voice modulator. That's how I I pretend to be fun.
Yeah yeah, yeah, so you know, yeah, go check it out.
And where can people find you? Follow you hear the podcast all that good stuff.
You can hear the podcast wherever you get your podcast. It's called Bad Hasbar the World's Most moral podcast.
Uh.
You can also watch it on YouTube. Uh there's a YouTube channel so you can see our face as while we're doing it. So subscribe to bad Asbara on YouTube. And uh yeah, follow me on Instagram at matt leab jokes and uh you know if I can, I'm on Twitter at matt Leib.
There you go.
Is there a work of media that you've been enjoying a tweet or otherwise?
Yeah, so there is. This is not like the funniest thing. Okay, so there's a couple. One is I just got introduced to someone named La Beast. I know this is an old YouTuber and uh, apparently he was like back in the day, like he was just like a prank guy. So I just started going through all of like his videos, and he has a video in which he is mad at his dad. So he goes into his dad's old smobile and drinks epicac and soda and he just.
Oh my, oh god, oh my god.
He vod it's all over it and I can't I can't explain how funny it is.
You just have to watch La piece. It just made me.
It made me, I don't know, like nostalgic for the days of YouTube when it was just like like idiots eating cactuses and shit, you know what I mean, back when YouTube was fun and it was just like like halfway.
Dying in slow motion as a vlog. Yeah, and you're like that guy just drink a fifth of stole, all right, Yeah, You're like, oh man, that's crazy. Yeah, so that was cool.
And then the other pieces, Uh, this is just a thing I think everyone should watch is ret and Link who I do a show called Good Mythical Morning. Yeah, and they have a separate channel called retin Link on on YouTube and they just started a series called wonder Hole and I'm not in it. I'm literally just plugging it because it's really good. It's called wonder Hole. If you go to the subscribe to the ret and Link channel or just go there and you'll see the first episode just came out a couple of days ago. It's really good. It's it's it's not like their usual you know, like studio stuff, so uh so yeah, check check that out. And it's like there. I'm literally only plugging it because I like it, and not because not because I know it's no, I don't get a cut or I'm not even in it. They didn't even ask me to be in it, and so like half of it, I'm plugging it because you're mad the I'm kind of mad at them because I'm like.
You tuned in being like, let's see what this bullshit? Yeah, I was just like all right, and then I was like, wait, this is really good. What the fuck?
So yeah, anyways, uh check out checkout Wonderhole. It's very good.
Awesome miles. Where can people find you?
And is there a work of media you've been enjoying. Uh yeah.
Find me on the Twitter, the Indus Instagram at Miles of Gray, find Jack and on the basketball podcast Miles and Jack cop Man Boosties. Find me on four to twenty Day Fiance Talking ninety day Fiance. Tweet I like is from Derek Pressman at Derek Crestman said the electoral College is DEI for rural white folks like no, no, no no, that's our word.
You can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore Obrian a tweet I've been enjoying. Mike Bovias bo Vice tweeted a picture of JD. Van's photoshopped into the Hot Wings set and it says, and these are chicken wings? How long have you hosted hot ones? These are hot sauces. What's a good number of wings to eat? I'll do whatever makes sense when it comes to the hot sauce.
Oh my gosh.
It just really nailed shut guy.
JD. Dance Yep.
You can find us on Twitter at daily Zeikeist, where the daily Zeikeist on Instagram. We have a Facebook fanpage and a website, daily zeikeist dot com, where we post our episodes and our footnotes We're like, oh, the information that we talked about today's episode, as well as a song that we think you might enjoy, Miles, is there a song that you think people might end?
Yeah, there's a track. Oh wow, I was playing that Ryan Adams cover of Wonderwall and then I completely lost it messed it up there it is. It's a track called Summer Rain by the group Zimmer ninety. I've not heard of this band, but this song has like a lot of plays. It came up in a playlist I was listening to, uh, and it's just got like again, it's it's calm, it feels like summer rain. It's not gonna it's not like some blow your speakers out type agro kind of beat anything. It's like a nice little kind of like rock to them, you know what I mean, Indie rock pipes. So this is Summer Rain by Zimmer ninety.
All right, we will link off to that in the foot notes to Day These Eye Guys is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, My Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio ap Apple Podcaster, wherever you get your favorite shows. That is going to do it for us this morning, back this afternoon to tell you what is trending, and we will talk to you all then.
Bye bye bye bye
