You're listening to Comedy Central.

You're listening to Comedy Central.

My guest tonight is a former failed correspondent at the Daily Show. He's done nothing since then. Please welcome mister John Oliver.

My guest tonight is a former failed correspondent at the Daily Show. He's done nothing since then. Please welcome mister John Oliver.

Hello.

Hello.

Yes, that's right, that's right.

Yes, that's right, that's right.

We get it enough for ready enough.

We get it enough for ready enough.

I agree with you more than I agree with them.

I agree with you more than I agree with them.

Well, well, well of course come crawling back. Yes I started.

Well, well, well of course come crawling back. Yes I started.

I know. It's pretty weird to be back. I do not like being in that guest room at all.

I know. It's pretty weird to be back. I do not like being in that guest room at all.

All.

All.

That was the one room where I worked here. You were not allowed to go in, and I don't like being in it now. It feels like I'm doing something wrong by being inside.

That was the one room where I worked here. You were not allowed to go in, and I don't like being in it now. It feels like I'm doing something wrong by being inside.

You never you never stuck in to see your guests. No no, no, no no no no no.

You never you never stuck in to see your guests. No no, no, no no no no no.

And we were we were never allowed to really be in there because it had to be kept nice for the guests. And it never really occurred to me one day I might be that, and I still don't feel so I put my bag in there and then stood in the corridor for the rest. I don't want to be in there at all.

And we were we were never allowed to really be in there because it had to be kept nice for the guests. And it never really occurred to me one day I might be that, and I still don't feel so I put my bag in there and then stood in the corridor for the rest. I don't want to be in there at all.

Yeah, this person pretty much my memories. You were here, you were in this building.

Yeah, this person pretty much my memories. You were here, you were in this building.

I was very much in this building. I was this was this was the reason I came to America and I was here for eight years.

I was very much in this building. I was this was this was the reason I came to America and I was here for eight years.

Yeah. Same, that's why. That's why I was so.

Yeah. Same, that's why. That's why I was so.

Happy you came on because we people don't know by look at us, but we actually have very similar backgrounds because we both joined the show. I moved to America to do the show, just like you. And when I first joined the show, you know, the Daily Show alumni network is so strong. I asked to meet up with mister Oliver. Yeah, and I thought mister Oliver, and I think he was mister Oliver. I was like, there's no way this guy's going to let me meet up with him.

Happy you came on because we people don't know by look at us, but we actually have very similar backgrounds because we both joined the show. I moved to America to do the show, just like you. And when I first joined the show, you know, the Daily Show alumni network is so strong. I asked to meet up with mister Oliver. Yeah, and I thought mister Oliver, and I think he was mister Oliver. I was like, there's no way this guy's going to let me meet up with him.

And you were like, no, come, come before work.

And you were like, no, come, come before work.

There's nothing There's nothing I like more than talking to people who have questions about how to make field peace because it's the that it's such a narrow set of skills and all you had, all of your questions were great. That was I remember you leaving and thinking, oh, you're going to be fine even though you don't have the answers yet, all your questions are right, so you're going to be fine. You do not have a problem, I will say before before we make it too sincere you do have that unique skill set of not minding being a dick to people. That really at the end of that is the secret source.

There's nothing There's nothing I like more than talking to people who have questions about how to make field peace because it's the that it's such a narrow set of skills and all you had, all of your questions were great. That was I remember you leaving and thinking, oh, you're going to be fine even though you don't have the answers yet, all your questions are right, so you're going to be fine. You do not have a problem, I will say before before we make it too sincere you do have that unique skill set of not minding being a dick to people. That really at the end of that is the secret source.

Well, that's that is the I mean, you know, you have to really not care to do satire. Sometimes everyone's like people, I don't even people know how much you don't give off.

Well, that's that is the I mean, you know, you have to really not care to do satire. Sometimes everyone's like people, I don't even people know how much you don't give off.

Yes, you truly don't give off in.

Yes, you truly don't give off in.

The marrow of my bones. Sometimes when our lawyers say they're going to be upset, you go, I'm not having a physical reaction to that at all. Yes, it's no concern to me whether the Sackle of family are mad with me. To be honest, I'm a little bit there's a tingle of happiness.

The marrow of my bones. Sometimes when our lawyers say they're going to be upset, you go, I'm not having a physical reaction to that at all. Yes, it's no concern to me whether the Sackle of family are mad with me. To be honest, I'm a little bit there's a tingle of happiness.

Yeah, that's kind of what you need. It's definitely.

Yeah, that's kind of what you need. It's definitely.

Yeah, you like the feeling that I like the feeling of trouble.

Yeah, you like the feeling that I like the feeling of trouble.

Yeah.

Yeah.

In comedy it's good because I'm probably a natural coward in many ways. But when it comes to comedy, I do like the feeling of being in Yeah.

In comedy it's good because I'm probably a natural coward in many ways. But when it comes to comedy, I do like the feeling of being in Yeah.

You talked about you said pushing the button, said you just button.

You talked about you said pushing the button, said you just button.

You just got to push it because I mean, you know.

You just got to push it because I mean, you know.

And and what was interesting was when I when I met with you this how much you don't give a You made me come to your office at eight am first of all, which is which is.

And and what was interesting was when I when I met with you this how much you don't give a You made me come to your office at eight am first of all, which is which is.

Extremely early for comedians. Yeah, I wait, god, it is true.

Extremely early for comedians. Yeah, I wait, god, it is true.

That's an amazing thing about doing Joe. When you get into comedy, it's not generally thinking that you will see a human beings breakfast time. No, but yeah, that's why you came. You came very early, look right, and early it showered.

That's an amazing thing about doing Joe. When you get into comedy, it's not generally thinking that you will see a human beings breakfast time. No, but yeah, that's why you came. You came very early, look right, and early it showered.

Yeah, and I came here.

Yeah, and I came here.

I talked to her, and I have very specific questions. And one thing you told me. I've been using this in.

I talked to her, and I have very specific questions. And one thing you told me. I've been using this in.

My podcast rounds.

My podcast rounds.

I don't know if it's come back to you, but like, uh, when you told me it took you two years to relearn how to do comedy in America.

I don't know if it's come back to you, but like, uh, when you told me it took you two years to relearn how to do comedy in America.

I think that's probably true.

I think that's probably true.

You want spot onto the day.

You want spot onto the day.

By the way, I was in hindsight, I was sorry, oh my god, because I remember there was a day I was in New York City gig at some comedy club, and it was two years in literally almost to the day, and I remember things are trying to click a little bit of like relearning how to do comedy because again, like you, like me, we were doing comedy outside of America before we even came here.

By the way, I was in hindsight, I was sorry, oh my god, because I remember there was a day I was in New York City gig at some comedy club, and it was two years in literally almost to the day, and I remember things are trying to click a little bit of like relearning how to do comedy because again, like you, like me, we were doing comedy outside of America before we even came here.

Yeah, and so I think the outside the perspective in comedy always works. The thing with being an immigrant here is you kind of have to learn the exact ways that your outsider perspective can translate. So you kind of have to learn basically how that can work, and once it does, you're fine. But until that point it does feel a little bit like on Charted Waters.

Yeah, and so I think the outside the perspective in comedy always works. The thing with being an immigrant here is you kind of have to learn the exact ways that your outsider perspective can translate. So you kind of have to learn basically how that can work, and once it does, you're fine. But until that point it does feel a little bit like on Charted Waters.

Yeah, it's a bit like, you know, you can come here and you can joke about America on a very surface level, and you can, you can, and that would do well for you, for you know, if you have a fifteen minute set, maybe thirty minute set. But I feel like after nine months or a year in America, the audience can kind of smell the bullshit of like of like you've been here long enough, right, Like guns should be weird, That's right? So really when that the how profound your two year thing was, Like it takes two years to learn the nuances of America so you can make fun of them in ways which yes, exactly, they appreciate exactly, Like, don't tell us we have guns.

Yeah, it's a bit like, you know, you can come here and you can joke about America on a very surface level, and you can, you can, and that would do well for you, for you know, if you have a fifteen minute set, maybe thirty minute set. But I feel like after nine months or a year in America, the audience can kind of smell the bullshit of like of like you've been here long enough, right, Like guns should be weird, That's right? So really when that the how profound your two year thing was, Like it takes two years to learn the nuances of America so you can make fun of them in ways which yes, exactly, they appreciate exactly, Like, don't tell us we have guns.

We know we have guns.

We know we have guns.

Tell us something else we if we know nothing else about ourselves, is that we have guns. To a genuinely problematic extent, right, that is not a fresh insight. We genuinely know, yes, exactly, So.

Tell us something else we if we know nothing else about ourselves, is that we have guns. To a genuinely problematic extent, right, that is not a fresh insight. We genuinely know, yes, exactly, So.

You are like going deeper and deeper and deeper into it, which you know that that was my guiding light as well.

You are like going deeper and deeper and deeper into it, which you know that that was my guiding light as well.

We're not first time. I'm so glad.

We're not first time. I'm so glad.

My incredibly insightful advice of wait twenty four months.

My incredibly insightful advice of wait twenty four months.

Was it was like a child, I still can't live.

Was it was like a child, I still can't live.

I just digged down and didn't want to hear from you again for two years.

I just digged down and didn't want to hear from you again for two years.

That's all it work.

That's all it work.

Come back, come back with the same question in two years. Yeah, and then we'll tell yeah.

Come back, come back with the same question in two years. Yeah, and then we'll tell yeah.

It's And I wonder, like, do you feel like satire in twenty twenty three? Is that you know, you've been at the show, You've seen a daily show kind of evolve over a lot of time. Then when you joined a show, I don't there wasn't anyone else doing it kind of. There wasn't TikTok, it wasn't Instagram.

It's And I wonder, like, do you feel like satire in twenty twenty three? Is that you know, you've been at the show, You've seen a daily show kind of evolve over a lot of time. Then when you joined a show, I don't there wasn't anyone else doing it kind of. There wasn't TikTok, it wasn't Instagram.

Oh no, there wasn't those things.

Oh no, there wasn't those things.

Right, So it wasn't a bunch of you know, like assholes on talking about you know, like trying to do sat tire it up all the time, and and so what sorry, now now I'm just attacking a bunch of people, and I think.

Right, So it wasn't a bunch of you know, like assholes on talking about you know, like trying to do sat tire it up all the time, and and so what sorry, now now I'm just attacking a bunch of people, and I think.

You're now attacking the entire population of TikTok truck.

You're now attacking the entire population of TikTok truck.

Yeah, no, I got I'm hosting for one day, come at MEIK talk.

Yeah, no, I got I'm hosting for one day, come at MEIK talk.

I was just trying.

I was just trying.

But monogram shirt, if you're having monogram shirts, Oh yeah, yeah, that's a very fancy shirt.

But monogram shirt, if you're having monogram shirts, Oh yeah, yeah, that's a very fancy shirt.

Oh yeah, yeah, this one is. I got this shirt made in New York City, Chinatown. And no, he's a he's a legit tailor. And then he asked me if I wanted my Chinese name embroidered on it, and I.

Oh yeah, yeah, this one is. I got this shirt made in New York City, Chinatown. And no, he's a he's a legit tailor. And then he asked me if I wanted my Chinese name embroidered on it, and I.

Was like, go for it. And then now it just looks like a mustard steak.

Was like, go for it. And then now it just looks like a mustard steak.

Yeah, it doesn't look like my son, a little bit like bustle stylish must state.

Yeah, it doesn't look like my son, a little bit like bustle stylish must state.

Yeah, did you guys get fancy suits when you know we got no suits?

Yeah, did you guys get fancy suits when you know we got no suits?

We got I cannot we We were not given any. I never owned a suit.

We got I cannot we We were not given any. I never owned a suit.

This boomer coming on a daily shot telling us how good we have it.

This boomer coming on a daily shot telling us how good we have it.

You have a desk, We got to buy cameras to go to go to a place to buy us and doing Philip is you wreck them all the time for years here we did. There's nothing that made ex correspondents more angry than hearing that we got free suits when we did, and yeah, that was the thing that bothered them the most. It was no, no, you should have to go into the hole every year just to get a presentable suits. Now look at you, spiffy.

You have a desk, We got to buy cameras to go to go to a place to buy us and doing Philip is you wreck them all the time for years here we did. There's nothing that made ex correspondents more angry than hearing that we got free suits when we did, and yeah, that was the thing that bothered them the most. It was no, no, you should have to go into the hole every year just to get a presentable suits. Now look at you, spiffy.

Did the show pay for that? Yeah?

Did the show pay for that? Yeah?

Monographs? You get monogram shirts. Yeah, well you know how many central has changed. I know things are a little choppy here, but monogram shirts.

Monographs? You get monogram shirts. Yeah, well you know how many central has changed. I know things are a little choppy here, but monogram shirts.

No.

No.

I told them their monogrammy they're racist.

I told them their monogrammy they're racist.

And then they're just, oh, that's a move that I can't make.

And then they're just, oh, that's a move that I can't make.

Yeah, but like that's the thing, Like we're both in immigrants in America and do you ever I guess my question to you is like, what how do you answer the people who are like, if you don't like it here, leave Yeah.

Yeah, but like that's the thing, Like we're both in immigrants in America and do you ever I guess my question to you is like, what how do you answer the people who are like, if you don't like it here, leave Yeah.

I get that a lot.

I get that a lot.

Yeah, I mean I guess it's a I mean it's a horrible point, but it's a fair question. I guess. Now my answer would be, I'm a citizen, you can't do that. But I mean the tricky thing is I felt ownership. It's very dangerous. A British person saying I felt ownership of this country historically, historically does not know, Well, it's amazing. I just went to India and I felt like I belonged, but I felt at home here long before my legal status was solid. That's the tricky thing as nemigrant. But the more I felt at home here, the more cognizant you are of the fact that it's not up to you whether or not you get to stay or not. So it was a massive relief to get my green card and an even bigger relief to get my citizenship. So yeah, despite the fact immigrants tend to talk shit, it's generally the kind of way that you talk ship with someone you genuinely love. Sure, as a comedian, I only really talk ship as a way of expressing life professionally, exactly, I don't really know how to express myself sincerely, right I like you, I'm never going to say that your show.

Yeah, I mean I guess it's a I mean it's a horrible point, but it's a fair question. I guess. Now my answer would be, I'm a citizen, you can't do that. But I mean the tricky thing is I felt ownership. It's very dangerous. A British person saying I felt ownership of this country historically, historically does not know, Well, it's amazing. I just went to India and I felt like I belonged, but I felt at home here long before my legal status was solid. That's the tricky thing as nemigrant. But the more I felt at home here, the more cognizant you are of the fact that it's not up to you whether or not you get to stay or not. So it was a massive relief to get my green card and an even bigger relief to get my citizenship. So yeah, despite the fact immigrants tend to talk shit, it's generally the kind of way that you talk ship with someone you genuinely love. Sure, as a comedian, I only really talk ship as a way of expressing life professionally, exactly, I don't really know how to express myself sincerely, right I like you, I'm never going to say that your show.

That's about I was back on that other point, like, do you feel as a place for a satire, Like, basically the news is so crazy right now? Reality is sometimes matching up to the news sometimes in that environment, do you feel that satire is still possible? Like, you know, when you're doing a joke ironically, do you feel like people can get it that you're trying to ironically be the bad guy in some you.

That's about I was back on that other point, like, do you feel as a place for a satire, Like, basically the news is so crazy right now? Reality is sometimes matching up to the news sometimes in that environment, do you feel that satire is still possible? Like, you know, when you're doing a joke ironically, do you feel like people can get it that you're trying to ironically be the bad guy in some you.

Know, oh, you mean, like if you're doing Phil because we used to play the bad guy in Phil Piece, right, you would say things you did not mean just to embody an argument that you do not agree with. I mean, yeah, in Field Pieces, that's the way that we would operate all the time. In general, I mean our shows a little different, like we're not in the and.

Know, oh, you mean, like if you're doing Phil because we used to play the bad guy in Phil Piece, right, you would say things you did not mean just to embody an argument that you do not agree with. I mean, yeah, in Field Pieces, that's the way that we would operate all the time. In general, I mean our shows a little different, like we're not in the and.

That's not your show, but you figured it out. I'm talking about from me, Like.

That's not your show, but you figured it out. I'm talking about from me, Like.

I think there's I think there will always be a place for satire. I mean there was a place for it in Germany in the thirties. It didn't seem to work out that well over there, but they gave it a go. So no, I think I think there will always be And I I'm like you, I'm happy for people online to try and do it as well. Ronnie really would nobody to.

I think there's I think there will always be a place for satire. I mean there was a place for it in Germany in the thirties. It didn't seem to work out that well over there, but they gave it a go. So no, I think I think there will always be And I I'm like you, I'm happy for people online to try and do it as well. Ronnie really would nobody to.

Have a volady all about earning your voice like me I did. I had to get on this show to get a voice. You don't get a voice just because in your underwear.

Have a volady all about earning your voice like me I did. I had to get on this show to get a voice. You don't get a voice just because in your underwear.

On Instagram, Ronnie regrets that gatekeepers have been removed from the process. You really liked the gates.

On Instagram, Ronnie regrets that gatekeepers have been removed from the process. You really liked the gates.

I love the gate Yet it was so tough to come here, you know, I was very tough for me to come here. I like you, I also really wanted to come here.

I love the gate Yet it was so tough to come here, you know, I was very tough for me to come here. I like you, I also really wanted to come here.

That is the thing. I don't think Americans understand how rough the US immigration process is. When they say come to people, come in the right way. I don't think they realize how literally impossible that is in some in some aspects. When when I got my green card here, they brought it to me in my office upstairs, and they gave me a Budwiser and an apple pie with a little American flag in it. And I think they would give it as if like here's a joke, right, Oh, you got it and you're always going to get it. Here it is, And I nearly cried, And so for a British person, nearly crying is crying. That's just as I can come. But I was so relieved because I was worried about it so much. So I think you tend to find, like when we were talking before, exactly when when you find out someone just got their green card, you can kind of almost feel the relief coming off it because it's such a concern.

That is the thing. I don't think Americans understand how rough the US immigration process is. When they say come to people, come in the right way. I don't think they realize how literally impossible that is in some in some aspects. When when I got my green card here, they brought it to me in my office upstairs, and they gave me a Budwiser and an apple pie with a little American flag in it. And I think they would give it as if like here's a joke, right, Oh, you got it and you're always going to get it. Here it is, And I nearly cried, And so for a British person, nearly crying is crying. That's just as I can come. But I was so relieved because I was worried about it so much. So I think you tend to find, like when we were talking before, exactly when when you find out someone just got their green card, you can kind of almost feel the relief coming off it because it's such a concern.

It's not easy easy.

It's not easy easy.

The top of the green card, even the visa before the green car is incredible it's it's called the extraordinary ability visa. Yes, you have to prove all that you have extraordinarability, which I challenge anyone to do unless you're freaking an NBA player someone foot. And then second, boy, it's like if you don't constantly prove that you're they can deport you. Like if I have a bag segment on the Daily.

The top of the green card, even the visa before the green car is incredible it's it's called the extraordinary ability visa. Yes, you have to prove all that you have extraordinarability, which I challenge anyone to do unless you're freaking an NBA player someone foot. And then second, boy, it's like if you don't constantly prove that you're they can deport you. Like if I have a bag segment on the Daily.

Show, you do not demonstrate extraordinary ability. That was at medium level of ability. That is the worst thing about coming in on the visa is like occasionally they will look at the visa and say, what do you do because they're expecting a surgeon, someone with a marketable skill, And the moment you say comedian like, that's this is not for you, that's not And also then if it's old, go tell me something funny like or what is this a fun bitch? Or is this the moment I get deported? Do I need a joke? On handtop, it demonstrates extraordinary ability in terms of word craft. Yes, it's incredibly stressful in the way people don't understand.

Show, you do not demonstrate extraordinary ability. That was at medium level of ability. That is the worst thing about coming in on the visa is like occasionally they will look at the visa and say, what do you do because they're expecting a surgeon, someone with a marketable skill, And the moment you say comedian like, that's this is not for you, that's not And also then if it's old, go tell me something funny like or what is this a fun bitch? Or is this the moment I get deported? Do I need a joke? On handtop, it demonstrates extraordinary ability in terms of word craft. Yes, it's incredibly stressful in the way people don't understand.

Yeah, it's in a weird way.

Yeah, it's in a weird way.

I'm with you in that in that like immigrants to America who come here actually want to be here. I have fought to be here, and we're the ones who get shit done here because we had to improve it every single time.

I'm with you in that in that like immigrants to America who come here actually want to be here. I have fought to be here, and we're the ones who get shit done here because we had to improve it every single time.

That's right, that's right, we get the job done. Yeah. I would say, what is more quintessentially American than coming to a country you don't belong in and deciding you're going to stay Thanksgiving of all times?

That's right, that's right, we get the job done. Yeah. I would say, what is more quintessentially American than coming to a country you don't belong in and deciding you're going to stay Thanksgiving of all times?

Yes? All right, so we get it.

Yes? All right, so we get it.

You. You know you every interview I've researched you on you, you've professional love for America.

You. You know you every interview I've researched you on you, you've professional love for America.

You're still here, clearly you still love it.

You're still here, clearly you still love it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay, So can you shut the fuck up and be.

Okay, So can you shut the fuck up and be.

American for one minute instead of constantly complaining and talking like a foreign all the time.

American for one minute instead of constantly complaining and talking like a foreign all the time.

I mean, I challenge you, how you challenge me to be American?

I mean, I challenge you, how you challenge me to be American?

Yes?

Yes?

I want you, want to want you to eat this hot dog right now, and then I want you to throw this football and foot of all, you have to call it a football.

I want you, want to want you to eat this hot dog right now, and then I want you to throw this football and foot of all, you have to call it a football.

I can't do that.

I can't do that.

Ye call it an American football, Okay, American and American.

Ye call it an American football, Okay, American and American.

You gonna throw this to me, You gonna eat that first, and you throw this to me?

You gonna throw this to me, You gonna eat that first, and you throw this to me?

Okay like this, No, no, you gotta quaking, Okay, I'm gonna go Okay.

Okay like this, No, no, you gotta quaking, Okay, I'm gonna go Okay.

Eat this first. This is the way we're all. You are say, you are said, you are said, all.

Eat this first. This is the way we're all. You are say, you are said, you are said, all.

Right, and then you gotta come over here and you gotta say right here, all right, and you gotta throw a tight spiral.

Right, and then you gotta come over here and you gotta say right here, all right, and you gotta throw a tight spiral.

How can that be? All right?

How can that be? All right?

Okay, all right?

Okay, all right?

Then we got drum roll, drum roll for you.

Then we got drum roll, drum roll for you.

Ready, all right, all right, you.

Ready, all right, all right, you.

Got this is last Week Tonight with John Oliver as wherever you'll find it, who gives a far will take her.

Got this is last Week Tonight with John Oliver as wherever you'll find it, who gives a far will take her.

That's how you throw to take a quick break.

That's how you throw to take a quick break.

We'll be right back at the Thank you don't do it.

We'll be right back at the Thank you don't do it.

My guest to day is an award wedding best selling author and illustrator whose picture book is called Big. Please welcome Vash the Harrison to sit down. Okay, hi, Hi, thank you for coming. Thanks for having me when it's steal your jacket. First of all, I love this book. I love, love love this book. Oh okay, cry. The illustration for this book are beautiful, and I was looking through it. It made they're very emotive and it actually made me think of looking at a memory. I think it's the best way to look at it, because, like in the book, there's no I like an illustration that there's on like lines Like usually when you see like a cartoon or an illustration, it's like, oh, this is a drawing, right, And I think the idea that it gave me was like always looking back, And so when you're doing a book like this, like what comes first? The drawings are.

My guest to day is an award wedding best selling author and illustrator whose picture book is called Big. Please welcome Vash the Harrison to sit down. Okay, hi, Hi, thank you for coming. Thanks for having me when it's steal your jacket. First of all, I love this book. I love, love love this book. Oh okay, cry. The illustration for this book are beautiful, and I was looking through it. It made they're very emotive and it actually made me think of looking at a memory. I think it's the best way to look at it, because, like in the book, there's no I like an illustration that there's on like lines Like usually when you see like a cartoon or an illustration, it's like, oh, this is a drawing, right, And I think the idea that it gave me was like always looking back, And so when you're doing a book like this, like what comes first? The drawings are.

The text For me, it happens at the same time. But drawing is always where I get my ideas. But what you're picking up on is something that I absolutely put into the book. I wanted it to feel soft, wanted it to feel really internal. So I hope that that comes through for everybody.

The text For me, it happens at the same time. But drawing is always where I get my ideas. But what you're picking up on is something that I absolutely put into the book. I wanted it to feel soft, wanted it to feel really internal. So I hope that that comes through for everybody.

That's exactly what I thought. Because we're like, well, it's beautiful, and I was like, no, this looks like because it's like the like, this is the first book that you've written and illustrated. And was it scary to do both of those? Yeah?

That's exactly what I thought. Because we're like, well, it's beautiful, and I was like, no, this looks like because it's like the like, this is the first book that you've written and illustrated. And was it scary to do both of those? Yeah?

Absolutely. So I've written nonfiction before, and so I can feel really excited and proud to share the stories of other people, especially incredible people from history. But to share something about my life that came from, you know, something really internal and to put that all on the page is terrifying. It's scary to write things and share them with people. But that's the process of making art.

Absolutely. So I've written nonfiction before, and so I can feel really excited and proud to share the stories of other people, especially incredible people from history. But to share something about my life that came from, you know, something really internal and to put that all on the page is terrifying. It's scary to write things and share them with people. But that's the process of making art.

Don't understand up corow. So it's like, oh, I hope these words I say people like them. Cause it's like as a comic, the first time you go on stage with a joke, it's like for information, like I need to know if this is funny or not. And then every time you do the joke it's for confirmation, so like, I know the joke is funny, I just need you to catch up to where I am. Like, I know I'm doing But the first of the couple of times, you're like, hey man, I don't know if I said these words right. I don't know if they're gonna like the words in this order, And then you got to figure out and sometimes it's like it's just don't work.

Don't understand up corow. So it's like, oh, I hope these words I say people like them. Cause it's like as a comic, the first time you go on stage with a joke, it's like for information, like I need to know if this is funny or not. And then every time you do the joke it's for confirmation, so like, I know the joke is funny, I just need you to catch up to where I am. Like, I know I'm doing But the first of the couple of times, you're like, hey man, I don't know if I said these words right. I don't know if they're gonna like the words in this order, And then you got to figure out and sometimes it's like it's just don't work.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Doing events for kids is the sort of like the same thing. I feel like I'm doing stand up waiting for their jokes, waiting for them to connect with the story, and if they don't like it, then I haven't done my job correctly.

Doing events for kids is the sort of like the same thing. I feel like I'm doing stand up waiting for their jokes, waiting for them to connect with the story, and if they don't like it, then I haven't done my job correctly.

Oh yeah, I used to do kids birthday parties. I've had a lot of jobs. Every time I'm in the office, they're like you used to work where I'm like, hey man, don't worry about that. You asked them too many questions. But making stuff for kids is hard because you have to keep their you have to keep their focus. So obviously the title big connotes like a physical size, but in the book, big means that and like a lot more. So can you talk about what the bigness means here?

Oh yeah, I used to do kids birthday parties. I've had a lot of jobs. Every time I'm in the office, they're like you used to work where I'm like, hey man, don't worry about that. You asked them too many questions. But making stuff for kids is hard because you have to keep their you have to keep their focus. So obviously the title big connotes like a physical size, but in the book, big means that and like a lot more. So can you talk about what the bigness means here?

Yeah?

Yeah?

I was thinking a lot about how we as adults use words with children. When kids are young, we use big as a word of affirmation. We say you're such a big girl, you're a big girl now, and that's a good thing. But typically with girls and all children, big changes meaning and I wanted to trace how that word can go from a word of affirmation into something different for a child's life.

I was thinking a lot about how we as adults use words with children. When kids are young, we use big as a word of affirmation. We say you're such a big girl, you're a big girl now, and that's a good thing. But typically with girls and all children, big changes meaning and I wanted to trace how that word can go from a word of affirmation into something different for a child's life.

Oh yeah, because I remember being a big girl and being a big girl. Yeah, and when that day happens, I think you're like, I don't know, eleven, and then it's like, oh.

Oh yeah, because I remember being a big girl and being a big girl. Yeah, and when that day happens, I think you're like, I don't know, eleven, and then it's like, oh.

You're such a big girl, Like oh, she's a big, big girl, right, and you remember that?

You're such a big girl, Like oh, she's a big, big girl, right, and you remember that?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Because like that why it was so interesting to me, because like this is in my autobiographical right. So the main character gets stuck in like a baby swing and y'all have seen the baby swing at a swing set, and you know, thought like I shouldn't get in this thing, but you did try, like we all tried. So is this something that actually happened to you, like getting stuck in that swing?

Because like that why it was so interesting to me, because like this is in my autobiographical right. So the main character gets stuck in like a baby swing and y'all have seen the baby swing at a swing set, and you know, thought like I shouldn't get in this thing, but you did try, like we all tried. So is this something that actually happened to you, like getting stuck in that swing?

Yes, So the girl in the book is not me. She doesn't have a name, but the experience of getting stuck in the swing was real, and it happened to me, and I remember it. I remember the fear and the anxiety and the shame that I felt as a young child, and I wanted to kind of make a book that acknowledged that those feelings are big and sometimes can trap us in and box us in, and express how those feelings can be really overwhelming for a young person.

Yes, So the girl in the book is not me. She doesn't have a name, but the experience of getting stuck in the swing was real, and it happened to me, and I remember it. I remember the fear and the anxiety and the shame that I felt as a young child, and I wanted to kind of make a book that acknowledged that those feelings are big and sometimes can trap us in and box us in, and express how those feelings can be really overwhelming for a young person.

So why doesn't she have a name? Because I was reading the book because this is a page turner, even at my big age. Why doesn't she have a name?

So why doesn't she have a name? Because I was reading the book because this is a page turner, even at my big age. Why doesn't she have a name?

Well, I didn't want her story to be mine. I wanted many people to be able to look at the girl in this book and maybe connect with her, feel empathy for her, and thusly feel compassion for her experience. But when I started writing it, I really wanted it to be a wordless book. Right now, there's only a handful of words in the book, but you know, it would have been great to just tell everything through the pictures.

Well, I didn't want her story to be mine. I wanted many people to be able to look at the girl in this book and maybe connect with her, feel empathy for her, and thusly feel compassion for her experience. But when I started writing it, I really wanted it to be a wordless book. Right now, there's only a handful of words in the book, but you know, it would have been great to just tell everything through the pictures.

Yeah, because I was like looking at it and I think because it looks like a memory and it's a little girl that looks like me, and because she didn't have a name, I was like, oh, I remember being on the swing set and being so afraid to try to get in it and try to get in that baby swing. Now, mind you, we've all seen the baby swing, and if you're not a baby, you really have no business trying to get in this baby But I would see other girls get into it, and I'm.

Yeah, because I was like looking at it and I think because it looks like a memory and it's a little girl that looks like me, and because she didn't have a name, I was like, oh, I remember being on the swing set and being so afraid to try to get in it and try to get in that baby swing. Now, mind you, we've all seen the baby swing, and if you're not a baby, you really have no business trying to get in this baby But I would see other girls get into it, and I'm.

Just like, oh, where is the rest of her legs?

Just like, oh, where is the rest of her legs?

Oh?

Oh?

Yeah, why are her legs?

Yeah, why are her legs?

She's nine?

She's nine?

Why are her legs only as big as a toddler? Like we shouldn't be upset that I'm so big? Why she's so small? Like somebody called somebody because I feel like she needs help at home. But that was my way of like processing the fact that this nine year old girl could fit in a baby swing and I couldn't. Because I love the use of the color pink in the book. Is that where you add in like the softness or was it because it was a classic like girl color, and she's a dancer. Like, what was the choice to use the color?

Why are her legs only as big as a toddler? Like we shouldn't be upset that I'm so big? Why she's so small? Like somebody called somebody because I feel like she needs help at home. But that was my way of like processing the fact that this nine year old girl could fit in a baby swing and I couldn't. Because I love the use of the color pink in the book. Is that where you add in like the softness or was it because it was a classic like girl color, and she's a dancer. Like, what was the choice to use the color?

There were a couple of different reasons. So the main character is a dancer. She loves ballet. Typically when I work on a book, I usually assign a color to a character and try to use that to build a palette. And specifically in this book, we're in her world, so everything is that color pink. I wanted it to be a symbol for sweetness and innocence, but also in color psychology, pink is associated with gentle love and care, and that's everything that I want for this girl.

There were a couple of different reasons. So the main character is a dancer. She loves ballet. Typically when I work on a book, I usually assign a color to a character and try to use that to build a palette. And specifically in this book, we're in her world, so everything is that color pink. I wanted it to be a symbol for sweetness and innocence, but also in color psychology, pink is associated with gentle love and care, and that's everything that I want for this girl.

So you were trying to give her the moment because I think a lot of times, as like girls, especially black girls, were given womanhood much older than we should be. And because I think for me, I got more womanhood much older than I should because I was well, let's just say, when I was nine years old, I had like seas right, So the first time I hit a man hit on me, I was nine but a butt had big boobs and I was wearing a suit, so because I couldn't wear little girl clothes because they didn't make little girl clothes in women's sizes, So I was looking at size nine shoes in a suit, and this man comes in and.

So you were trying to give her the moment because I think a lot of times, as like girls, especially black girls, were given womanhood much older than we should be. And because I think for me, I got more womanhood much older than I should because I was well, let's just say, when I was nine years old, I had like seas right, So the first time I hit a man hit on me, I was nine but a butt had big boobs and I was wearing a suit, so because I couldn't wear little girl clothes because they didn't make little girl clothes in women's sizes, So I was looking at size nine shoes in a suit, and this man comes in and.

It's like, what's your name?

It's like, what's your name?

And I had to turn around and go I'm nine. And he was like, now, what are you name? And my mother went what the hell? And he ran out of a Miami playlist and so without going at first, why does she look like this? And then he ran outside. But it was like when you're built like a because I was also like four if I was five feet tall, So when you look like a tiny woman or you're the size of a whole woman but you're nine, everyone's like, well, you should.

And I had to turn around and go I'm nine. And he was like, now, what are you name? And my mother went what the hell? And he ran out of a Miami playlist and so without going at first, why does she look like this? And then he ran outside. But it was like when you're built like a because I was also like four if I was five feet tall, So when you look like a tiny woman or you're the size of a whole woman but you're nine, everyone's like, well, you should.

Have all these responsibilities.

Have all these responsibilities.

And it's like, but I got dolls for Christmas, so I'm not a double digit age but everyone's like, you get all this responsibility. And I think it's like, that's why I like looking at this, because I was like, Oh, this is the this experienced sick girl shouldn't have because we should get to be little. So I think I'm gonna ask you the next question.

And it's like, but I got dolls for Christmas, so I'm not a double digit age but everyone's like, you get all this responsibility. And I think it's like, that's why I like looking at this, because I was like, Oh, this is the this experienced sick girl shouldn't have because we should get to be little. So I think I'm gonna ask you the next question.

I do want to touch on that. Hi, I want to talk about it.

I do want to touch on that. Hi, I want to talk about it.

I want to talk about that because one of the main reasons I wanted to write this story was to touch on this subject of adultification. Bias the adultification of black girls. Early in my career, I had read the study that came from the Georgetown Law Center on Poverty and Anequality called Girlhood Interrupted, that talked about the specific bias that many adults have on black girls. It found that adults viewed black girls as young as the age of five as less innocent and more adult than their white counterparts. And this results in young girls receiving less care and less nurturing. And so many different things factor into it, including a child's height, age, skin color, body size, and weight. And I just wanted to reclaim space for children to grow, for their bodies to look different, to offer them the innocence and gentleness and care that they deserve for as long as they needed.

I want to talk about that because one of the main reasons I wanted to write this story was to touch on this subject of adultification. Bias the adultification of black girls. Early in my career, I had read the study that came from the Georgetown Law Center on Poverty and Anequality called Girlhood Interrupted, that talked about the specific bias that many adults have on black girls. It found that adults viewed black girls as young as the age of five as less innocent and more adult than their white counterparts. And this results in young girls receiving less care and less nurturing. And so many different things factor into it, including a child's height, age, skin color, body size, and weight. And I just wanted to reclaim space for children to grow, for their bodies to look different, to offer them the innocence and gentleness and care that they deserve for as long as they needed.

Yeah, because then you find out, like black girls get out of all girls in school, they get suspended as a higher rate, exactly as if like they're doing more wrong, but like black children and brown children get suspend it at a higher rate. Cause it's like I don't I mean, I don't know if we're throwing hands better than white girls. But it's very interesting because it's like you use the words like creative and compassionate and kind to describe these, you know, to describe her character, and it's like, I think a lot of times, like a young girl, if you're allowed to even be little, you know, you get like a lot of cute or pretty. Like Do you think it affects girls to hear different words like compassionate and kind, like giving words that are more described like descriptors of person just adjectives of personality as opposed to like appearance.

Yeah, because then you find out, like black girls get out of all girls in school, they get suspended as a higher rate, exactly as if like they're doing more wrong, but like black children and brown children get suspend it at a higher rate. Cause it's like I don't I mean, I don't know if we're throwing hands better than white girls. But it's very interesting because it's like you use the words like creative and compassionate and kind to describe these, you know, to describe her character, and it's like, I think a lot of times, like a young girl, if you're allowed to even be little, you know, you get like a lot of cute or pretty. Like Do you think it affects girls to hear different words like compassionate and kind, like giving words that are more described like descriptors of person just adjectives of personality as opposed to like appearance.

Yeah, I think I just want for all kids to be able to define who they are. Adults will make mistakes, they will say things words that you know, we don't know what's going to stick with kids. But I wanted to clarify for this girl and for any kid that reads this book that you get to choose what's important and real for you, and you don't have to hold on to anything that doesn't define you. You get to decide that for yourself.

Yeah, I think I just want for all kids to be able to define who they are. Adults will make mistakes, they will say things words that you know, we don't know what's going to stick with kids. But I wanted to clarify for this girl and for any kid that reads this book that you get to choose what's important and real for you, and you don't have to hold on to anything that doesn't define you. You get to decide that for yourself.

There's one page in here, and I want to know, can I show the page in the book that she.

There's one page in here, and I want to know, can I show the page in the book that she.

Goes through.

Goes through.

And I'm not gonna spoil it for people, because you have to see her grow and grow and the changes that she goes to. But there's one page almost there that I and I think you know the exactly the page I'm talking about where me and our makeup artist, Enid was literally crying in the makeup room. And I don't know if you know how crying in the makeup room works, but it's basically you just tilt your head back and you catch the tears, because Enid is an amazing makeup artist. But it's just like there's soult on my face now. So but the thing that we were just like that made her stop. It made me stop. Where the little girl goes to the adults, these are.

And I'm not gonna spoil it for people, because you have to see her grow and grow and the changes that she goes to. But there's one page almost there that I and I think you know the exactly the page I'm talking about where me and our makeup artist, Enid was literally crying in the makeup room. And I don't know if you know how crying in the makeup room works, but it's basically you just tilt your head back and you catch the tears, because Enid is an amazing makeup artist. But it's just like there's soult on my face now. So but the thing that we were just like that made her stop. It made me stop. Where the little girl goes to the adults, these are.

Yours, these are yours. They hurt me.

Yours, these are yours. They hurt me.

And so she's holding words and she said, these are yours, they're hurting, and so I think, like that's when I was looking at this, I was like, this's a book for children, because there are a lot of people that make a lot of money, my therapists included, who make a lot of money trying to show adults how to love and care for themselves. And I'm just is there like a grown up version of this book? Can we call it?

And so she's holding words and she said, these are yours, they're hurting, and so I think, like that's when I was looking at this, I was like, this's a book for children, because there are a lot of people that make a lot of money, my therapists included, who make a lot of money trying to show adults how to love and care for themselves. And I'm just is there like a grown up version of this book? Can we call it?

Like still big? Like can we how do we just a little bit at the time?

Like still big? Like can we how do we just a little bit at the time?

And then there's just a bad bitch at the bottom, like that's all I'm saying, just still big, bad bitch at the bottoms. You might be modeled on me makings diying. I don't know who you want to choose, but you know, just still big. I think that that could be some grown ups may also need help with this, So thank you for that for everyone.

And then there's just a bad bitch at the bottom, like that's all I'm saying, just still big, bad bitch at the bottoms. You might be modeled on me makings diying. I don't know who you want to choose, but you know, just still big. I think that that could be some grown ups may also need help with this, So thank you for that for everyone.

So I'm happy with that. Only life with that from find sometimes for themselves.

So I'm happy with that. Only life with that from find sometimes for themselves.

And I think it's gonna be good if you have anybody who's working on their self estate this. I think this is something that everybody can resonate with because there's a lot of times where just words of just because they always take just like sticks and stones to break your bones with words. And I'm like, I can get over a bruise, but like I learned with my ex emotional scars, never heal, don't learn from me, don't listen to me.

And I think it's gonna be good if you have anybody who's working on their self estate this. I think this is something that everybody can resonate with because there's a lot of times where just words of just because they always take just like sticks and stones to break your bones with words. And I'm like, I can get over a bruise, but like I learned with my ex emotional scars, never heal, don't learn from me, don't listen to me.

I'm not helpful a lot of the time.

I'm not helpful a lot of the time.

But but I think that is the main thing we have. We have to stop telling that lie because I think we tell that to children for them to be able to make this defense mechanism because like you don't remember, like if you remember every time you fell off a bike, you wouldn't get back on a bike. But you remember, like you don't remember what someone said, which you remember how they made you feel for sure. And so because the words can make you feel a certain way, even you forget what they said, your body still remembers.

But but I think that is the main thing we have. We have to stop telling that lie because I think we tell that to children for them to be able to make this defense mechanism because like you don't remember, like if you remember every time you fell off a bike, you wouldn't get back on a bike. But you remember, like you don't remember what someone said, which you remember how they made you feel for sure. And so because the words can make you feel a certain way, even you forget what they said, your body still remembers.

Yeah, And that's why I think I wanted to show the scene in the book where the words are stuck to the girl. It doesn't happen immediately. It happens, you know, over time and again, like you just don't know what is going to stick with kids, You can't guarantee that things won't stick to you, but you know, over time you can separate out what's good for you and what isn't. I think the page after the page you pointed out is the one that always gets me, which is she hands back the words and says, these are yours. They hurt me. And on the next page some of the people say, well, not everyone understood or even listened, and some of the people say it's not that serious, it's just a joke. You're too sensitive. That's the thing that still still gets me, because I am still that girl who was told that I'm too sensitive for listening to the words that people said to me, for letting them them resonate and for feeling them. Oh yeah, but that's so real, and kids need often the space and the time to to manage those things.

Yeah, And that's why I think I wanted to show the scene in the book where the words are stuck to the girl. It doesn't happen immediately. It happens, you know, over time and again, like you just don't know what is going to stick with kids, You can't guarantee that things won't stick to you, but you know, over time you can separate out what's good for you and what isn't. I think the page after the page you pointed out is the one that always gets me, which is she hands back the words and says, these are yours. They hurt me. And on the next page some of the people say, well, not everyone understood or even listened, and some of the people say it's not that serious, it's just a joke. You're too sensitive. That's the thing that still still gets me, because I am still that girl who was told that I'm too sensitive for listening to the words that people said to me, for letting them them resonate and for feeling them. Oh yeah, but that's so real, and kids need often the space and the time to to manage those things.

Well, you're absolutely right. I want to thank you for coming.

Well, you're absolutely right. I want to thank you for coming.

Explore more shows from the Daily Show podcast universe by searching The Daily Show wherever you get your podcasts. Watch The Daily Show week nights at eleven ten Central on Comedy Central, and stream pull episodes anytime on Fairmount Plus.

Explore more shows from the Daily Show podcast universe by searching The Daily Show wherever you get your podcasts. Watch The Daily Show week nights at eleven ten Central on Comedy Central, and stream pull episodes anytime on Fairmount Plus.

This has been a Comedy Central podcast.

This has been a Comedy Central podcast.