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Welcome back to the Daily Show. My guest tonight is the best seller at AU thirteenth, a little colonists and partner at Talk and host Been Politics podcast. Please welcome John Heilman. I knew there would be some Wu Tang apparel when you walked after you.

Welcome back to the Daily Show. My guest tonight is the best seller at AU thirteenth, a little colonists and partner at Talk and host Been Politics podcast. Please welcome John Heilman. I knew there would be some Wu Tang apparel when you walked after you.

Sung the praises of Wu Tang at your that Chicago convention show. You saw that, Yeah, of course I did. You talked about how that era nineteen ninety one ninety five fours year's American history. I agreed, you agree, right, I agreed. I'm a little disappointed they proised me DESI tonight they did, because that's why I'm here. I mean, I love you, but like you know, I was like, I wanted to get the best sub John Host.

Sung the praises of Wu Tang at your that Chicago convention show. You saw that, Yeah, of course I did. You talked about how that era nineteen ninety one ninety five fours year's American history. I agreed, you agree, right, I agreed. I'm a little disappointed they proised me DESI tonight they did, because that's why I'm here. I mean, I love you, but like you know, I was like, I wanted to get the best sub John Host.

First of all, I don't consider myself a sub John Host. I am the host of the goddamn Daily Show. You will respect that, and you should understand that all of the best groups have a lot of members O dB, Jizzo, Rizza, Master Killer, Inspector Deck. These are groups lands.

First of all, I don't consider myself a sub John Host. I am the host of the goddamn Daily Show. You will respect that, and you should understand that all of the best groups have a lot of members O dB, Jizzo, Rizza, Master Killer, Inspector Deck. These are groups lands.

If you will, I can't believe you. I can't believe some of the ones you'll leave it out there are like math, who's gonna come over here and beat the shit out of you for that. But here's here's how you know that I actually knew it was you. Okay, after all that discussion that we had on my podcast last week about the food of Chicago.

If you will, I can't believe you. I can't believe some of the ones you'll leave it out there are like math, who's gonna come over here and beat the shit out of you for that. But here's here's how you know that I actually knew it was you. Okay, after all that discussion that we had on my podcast last week about the food of Chicago.

Yes, I was slumming it and I did your podcast.

Yes, I was slumming it and I did your podcast.

He did and he was great. He was great. You gotta listen to it in Politic with John Hommet. Here's the thing. So you didn't come to Philly, No, I didn't. You know what they make in Philly?

He did and he was great. He was great. You gotta listen to it in Politic with John Hommet. Here's the thing. So you didn't come to Philly, No, I didn't. You know what they make in Philly?

What do they make?

What do they make?

Cheese steaks? Cheese steaks famously, there's two of them, two famous cheese stick makers.

Cheese steaks? Cheese steaks famously, there's two of them, two famous cheese stick makers.

Yes, I've been to one of them, which one Geno's. I think, Well we.

Yes, I've been to one of them, which one Geno's. I think, Well we.

Got now these were purchased after them. They're to up and twenty four hours. These were purchased in the middle, like about three am.

Got now these were purchased after them. They're to up and twenty four hours. These were purchased in the middle, like about three am.

It's Pats and Gino's Pats and.

It's Pats and Gino's Pats and.

Gino's right next to each other. Gino's steaks.

Gino's right next to each other. Gino's steaks.

Right, wait, you're bringing me old meat?

Right, wait, you're bringing me old meat?

Well no, no, these were transported from Philadelphia as if they were severed limbs. Okay, like on on ice very well, like just it's really hygienic. Don't worry, it's gonna be great. But yeah, old she's whizz. There's nothing better. There's nothing better. And this is Pat's Kingdom Steaks. Now, these places have been operating in Philadelphia for like eighty years. They're a block away from each other, and people will fight you in Philly over which one of these is better. Yeah, they're indistinguishable. If you take if you take a if you take one of these piece of steak and covered in cheese, whiz, she's just supposed to do and onions, you can't tell the difference. So well, you don't have to eat it now, because I know how it's eating on the air is not cool. But I wanted to make sure that you had an offering, an offering.

Well no, no, these were transported from Philadelphia as if they were severed limbs. Okay, like on on ice very well, like just it's really hygienic. Don't worry, it's gonna be great. But yeah, old she's whizz. There's nothing better. There's nothing better. And this is Pat's Kingdom Steaks. Now, these places have been operating in Philadelphia for like eighty years. They're a block away from each other, and people will fight you in Philly over which one of these is better. Yeah, they're indistinguishable. If you take if you take a if you take one of these piece of steak and covered in cheese, whiz, she's just supposed to do and onions, you can't tell the difference. So well, you don't have to eat it now, because I know how it's eating on the air is not cool. But I wanted to make sure that you had an offering, an offering.

What do you think these people want to see? John, Well, this is the smartest, the smartest audience on television. Eat it and then let's do it.

What do you think these people want to see? John, Well, this is the smartest, the smartest audience on television. Eat it and then let's do it.

I mean, don't wonder we're gonna do it.

I mean, don't wonder we're gonna do it.

I tell you what we're gonna do it. This is all gonna live on the web now because this interview has already gone seventeen minutes into. Okay, so I'm starting with my genos. Okay, I'm gonna try this, and as I'm trying this, I want you to encapsulate as if we are eating in Philadelphia, your experience last night at the debate in Philadelphia.

I tell you what we're gonna do it. This is all gonna live on the web now because this interview has already gone seventeen minutes into. Okay, so I'm starting with my genos. Okay, I'm gonna try this, and as I'm trying this, I want you to encapsulate as if we are eating in Philadelphia, your experience last night at the debate in Philadelphia.

First things, First, she kicked his ass. Now I heard I heard John last night talking about how you know this amount of opinion. People will claim various things. Here's the fundamental truth about campaigns. Both sides have either directly under their under their auspices or in super PACs they have. They do this thing called dial ggrem groups. They get undecided voters in battleground states to watch the debate in real time and they say, you've seen these things what they relate cranked the dial? Do they approve, they disapprove, And that's how they That's all they're looking at is what the dials are showing them. Later they will look at polling, but on.

First things, First, she kicked his ass. Now I heard I heard John last night talking about how you know this amount of opinion. People will claim various things. Here's the fundamental truth about campaigns. Both sides have either directly under their under their auspices or in super PACs they have. They do this thing called dial ggrem groups. They get undecided voters in battleground states to watch the debate in real time and they say, you've seen these things what they relate cranked the dial? Do they approve, they disapprove, And that's how they That's all they're looking at is what the dials are showing them. Later they will look at polling, but on.

That night, internally they're getting that essentially in real time based on the answer right they're having.

That night, internally they're getting that essentially in real time based on the answer right they're having.

And at the end of the night they know two things. Did their candidate perform well with the dial groups? And the dial groups are meant to be representative of groups they're trying to reach and bring over onto their side, and they will know what worked, What are the things that work best By the end, at the end of the night, if you know someone at a high level of the campaign or either campaign or both campaigns says, I might you will know by the end of the night what the dial, what the group said, What the dials said, basically is what they'll say to you. Yeah, and I would say, this is a rare moment where the Harris campaign and the Trump campaign would agree. But the dial said that she kicked.

And at the end of the night they know two things. Did their candidate perform well with the dial groups? And the dial groups are meant to be representative of groups they're trying to reach and bring over onto their side, and they will know what worked, What are the things that work best By the end, at the end of the night, if you know someone at a high level of the campaign or either campaign or both campaigns says, I might you will know by the end of the night what the dial, what the group said, What the dials said, basically is what they'll say to you. Yeah, and I would say, this is a rare moment where the Harris campaign and the Trump campaign would agree. But the dial said that she kicked.

His ass, really, and the Trump campaign was aware of that because I don't know if you saw Donald Trump had numbers. I think one of them was ninety. One of them was seventy four. I think there was an I squared in there. Yeah, yeah, he had numbers.

His ass, really, and the Trump campaign was aware of that because I don't know if you saw Donald Trump had numbers. I think one of them was ninety. One of them was seventy four. I think there was an I squared in there. Yeah, yeah, he had numbers.

I thought that was the funniest part when he came into the spin room, because like Trump is full of shit most of the time, and he makes up all kinds of things, but that was one of those things that was the most made up thing on earth. And of course, like the story about how Elbreda and America wanted Roby Way to go away, which we'll come back to, it was easily verifiable because of course all the networks were going to put up their numbers. You know, CNN was broadcast their numbers and half an hour later and showing that in fact, all their insta poles, but you so showed that Harris had won. And I'll tell you the other thing is that what she did best on were all of the abortion related questions, all the stuff about woman's reroductor, rightce, those were the things that stretch. She had about two and a half minute answer when she really started to come on strong in the debate, and she got very shed, was very emotional, very direct, very powerful. They those the dial groups loved that. That was off the charts, even in the I mean, in the drug These are all undecided voters, so they're essentially different groups that the campaigns are monitoring. But they're all there are no Trump fans in these groups and there's no Harris fans. These are you know, insensibly people who haven't made up their mind.

I thought that was the funniest part when he came into the spin room, because like Trump is full of shit most of the time, and he makes up all kinds of things, but that was one of those things that was the most made up thing on earth. And of course, like the story about how Elbreda and America wanted Roby Way to go away, which we'll come back to, it was easily verifiable because of course all the networks were going to put up their numbers. You know, CNN was broadcast their numbers and half an hour later and showing that in fact, all their insta poles, but you so showed that Harris had won. And I'll tell you the other thing is that what she did best on were all of the abortion related questions, all the stuff about woman's reroductor, rightce, those were the things that stretch. She had about two and a half minute answer when she really started to come on strong in the debate, and she got very shed, was very emotional, very direct, very powerful. They those the dial groups loved that. That was off the charts, even in the I mean, in the drug These are all undecided voters, so they're essentially different groups that the campaigns are monitoring. But they're all there are no Trump fans in these groups and there's no Harris fans. These are you know, insensibly people who haven't made up their mind.

They're undecided, psychotic, insane people. Oh well, I can't wrap my head around. But these other side, I mean, there was there was some poll that around thirty percent of people wanted to know more from Kamala Harris. What did people actually learn about Kamala Harris?

They're undecided, psychotic, insane people. Oh well, I can't wrap my head around. But these other side, I mean, there was there was some poll that around thirty percent of people wanted to know more from Kamala Harris. What did people actually learn about Kamala Harris?

Well, I'll tell you what I think. There's two ways to look at that. You know, when you think about this from the Harris kind of strategic standpoint, one thing was that was the New York Times Siena poll that basically said there was a lot of people who still don't feel like they know very much about her, and they wanted to know more. That was one thing that you could have tried to aim to do, so tell your story more, to try to explain some of your changes on positions, all that sort of stuff. Right, But if you look back the history of presidential debates, the way that they are often remembered as who won them and who lost them is on one metric in one metric alum which is like who commands the stage, who commanded the sphere of battle? And for a candidate who's run, who's in their first general election presidential debate, Bill Clinton and others would say, Americans are watching to see whether they could imagine this person as the commander in chief as president of the United States. Can they go toe to toe with an adversary in the moment? Do they command the debate? Are they is the image of command left in people? So it's a plausibility test. And I just think there's no one with eyes in their head who didn't think that Kamala Harris was the one who commanded the stage last night. And that's why, between the dial groups and just the plain obvious thing that Trump as maniacal, irrational, mentally, psychologically, emotionally, spiritually failing as he is at this moment, she was you know, was she perfect? No? But she was strong, right, And I think that she came across as strong and she decided to play that prosecutor role when she played it really well. She was incredibly as you said, well, incredibly well prepared, and she kept coming back to her themes that she wanted to hit. Yeah, and I just I mean, I can't as a debate quad debate, which is not how are people going to vote? Eight weeks from now is one of the election days. These people are still undecided. Mostly people are not waking up today going okay, I've decided.

Well, I'll tell you what I think. There's two ways to look at that. You know, when you think about this from the Harris kind of strategic standpoint, one thing was that was the New York Times Siena poll that basically said there was a lot of people who still don't feel like they know very much about her, and they wanted to know more. That was one thing that you could have tried to aim to do, so tell your story more, to try to explain some of your changes on positions, all that sort of stuff. Right, But if you look back the history of presidential debates, the way that they are often remembered as who won them and who lost them is on one metric in one metric alum which is like who commands the stage, who commanded the sphere of battle? And for a candidate who's run, who's in their first general election presidential debate, Bill Clinton and others would say, Americans are watching to see whether they could imagine this person as the commander in chief as president of the United States. Can they go toe to toe with an adversary in the moment? Do they command the debate? Are they is the image of command left in people? So it's a plausibility test. And I just think there's no one with eyes in their head who didn't think that Kamala Harris was the one who commanded the stage last night. And that's why, between the dial groups and just the plain obvious thing that Trump as maniacal, irrational, mentally, psychologically, emotionally, spiritually failing as he is at this moment, she was you know, was she perfect? No? But she was strong, right, And I think that she came across as strong and she decided to play that prosecutor role when she played it really well. She was incredibly as you said, well, incredibly well prepared, and she kept coming back to her themes that she wanted to hit. Yeah, and I just I mean, I can't as a debate quad debate, which is not how are people going to vote? Eight weeks from now is one of the election days. These people are still undecided. Mostly people are not waking up today going okay, I've decided.

Well looked she looked presidentially, yes.

Well looked she looked presidentially, yes.

And as you said in in off camera, I think to these fine people out here, you know, you're dealing with a lunatic. You're you're dealing with a with a pathologically lying insurrection, fomenting democracy, degrading, defiling, asshole and and.

And as you said in in off camera, I think to these fine people out here, you know, you're dealing with a lunatic. You're you're dealing with a with a pathologically lying insurrection, fomenting democracy, degrading, defiling, asshole and and.

So allegedly.

So allegedly.

So you're so it's a it's a tough like you imagine how like what that? You know, well, I'm a challenge involved in doing that and holding your composure. And I'll say, you know, because no one did this better than John did. On the night of the first debate. I get it.

So you're so it's a it's a tough like you imagine how like what that? You know, well, I'm a challenge involved in doing that and holding your composure. And I'll say, you know, because no one did this better than John did. On the night of the first debate. I get it.

You like John's doing.

You like John's doing.

He did look you are He's like, you're comedy hero, Like, well, okay, yes, but he put up those pictures of Biden slack John. It was a four box and he's like, when they did the debate prep, did nobody show him these pictures because these don't look great. She was so aware of the split screen and how the split screen would work that I feel like it was like a bizarro world Biden debate a lot of ways last night, right, because Trump the split screen that with that with Harris was doing to Trump what the split screen with Biden did to Biden. Right, Biden suffered in that split screen with Trump, and Trump suffers in that split screen with her. He looked angry almost throughout we did without the sound.

He did look you are He's like, you're comedy hero, Like, well, okay, yes, but he put up those pictures of Biden slack John. It was a four box and he's like, when they did the debate prep, did nobody show him these pictures because these don't look great. She was so aware of the split screen and how the split screen would work that I feel like it was like a bizarro world Biden debate a lot of ways last night, right, because Trump the split screen that with that with Harris was doing to Trump what the split screen with Biden did to Biden. Right, Biden suffered in that split screen with Trump, and Trump suffers in that split screen with her. He looked angry almost throughout we did without the sound.

On I don't disagree and I do think I think Kamala looked more than a depth. She did look presidential. I think she was masterful in many ways of both seeming above the frame but also poking him as well. Yes, but this audience is different. I think people don't see Donald Trump. I don't believe people saw that and saw Donald Trump for the first time as a diminished man. No, he looked angry, but angrier has been something that he's been selling the American public. And there's that forty five percent who love that. Do you actually think I don't think that way.

On I don't disagree and I do think I think Kamala looked more than a depth. She did look presidential. I think she was masterful in many ways of both seeming above the frame but also poking him as well. Yes, but this audience is different. I think people don't see Donald Trump. I don't believe people saw that and saw Donald Trump for the first time as a diminished man. No, he looked angry, but angrier has been something that he's been selling the American public. And there's that forty five percent who love that. Do you actually think I don't think that way.

I don't think you're only going to take away Trump voters from Trump, you know, I think what you're But she's trying to get across I think now is that he is not just the old candidate of the race, now the generational contrast. She wants to be changed, she wants to be younger, and she is in some ways implicitly pushing like the argument that took down Biden, which is that I mean Donald Trump's mental acuity. I say this not in just a trashing him kind of way, which I'm happy to do sometimes, but I.

I don't think you're only going to take away Trump voters from Trump, you know, I think what you're But she's trying to get across I think now is that he is not just the old candidate of the race, now the generational contrast. She wants to be changed, she wants to be younger, and she is in some ways implicitly pushing like the argument that took down Biden, which is that I mean Donald Trump's mental acuity. I say this not in just a trashing him kind of way, which I'm happy to do sometimes, but I.

Think about a minute and a half ago, but he just but he's getting worse.

Think about a minute and a half ago, but he just but he's getting worse.

I mean, he's never been wholly linear, let's put it that way. Right, But if you go back to twenty sixteen when he really won the election against Clinton, in those last ten or twelve days of the election, they managed to get him to talk about trade, the border wall China, and he was actually a pretty disciplined candidate for the crucial ten or twelve days of the election. Now, there are a lot of Republicans who look at well, she has this momentum. What's going to change between now an election day that will halt her momentum. One thing is like some external event, you know, you know, Vladimir Putin does something, China does something, some kind of cyber war, a Russian Martian invasion, you know that someone has to repel on the White House lawn. Another is Harris up. You know, she messes up somehow. She didn't do that last night. Right, we will all agree about that. And the third thing which Republicans all are hoping for and praying for, and that what they've been trying to beg Trump to do is be a disciplined, focused, rigorous, consistent candidate. Make these arguments. That's we're begging him to do. It with this idea in mind that he can pull it together in these last eight weeks and become this thing that occasionally he was in the past. I just think, if you watched that debate last night, there are none of that there. There's none of that there. When he started talking about the dogs and cats and the pets being killed. Do you know how that question started?

I mean, he's never been wholly linear, let's put it that way. Right, But if you go back to twenty sixteen when he really won the election against Clinton, in those last ten or twelve days of the election, they managed to get him to talk about trade, the border wall China, and he was actually a pretty disciplined candidate for the crucial ten or twelve days of the election. Now, there are a lot of Republicans who look at well, she has this momentum. What's going to change between now an election day that will halt her momentum. One thing is like some external event, you know, you know, Vladimir Putin does something, China does something, some kind of cyber war, a Russian Martian invasion, you know that someone has to repel on the White House lawn. Another is Harris up. You know, she messes up somehow. She didn't do that last night. Right, we will all agree about that. And the third thing which Republicans all are hoping for and praying for, and that what they've been trying to beg Trump to do is be a disciplined, focused, rigorous, consistent candidate. Make these arguments. That's we're begging him to do. It with this idea in mind that he can pull it together in these last eight weeks and become this thing that occasionally he was in the past. I just think, if you watched that debate last night, there are none of that there. There's none of that there. When he started talking about the dogs and cats and the pets being killed. Do you know how that question started?

I don't remember what it started with David.

I don't remember what it started with David.

We were asking him about immigration. It. Yeah, now in the Biden debate, go back to my bizarro world thing. The Biden date debate. Rightly, Biden got a question about abortion his strength and turn into an immigration question. And that's when you knew he had really lost it. You're like, what are you doing? You're talking about immigration. They set you up, They put it on the tee abortion, talk about Rugby Wade. Last night, Trump got asked about immigration. Here's the issue he wants to talk about, sweet spot, but Harris had baited him on the crowd size thing. He turned away from immigration and then proceeded to discuss the size of his crowds. World War III was coming, the size of his crowds again, and then the apparent obviously completely made up Holocaust of the cats, dogs and pets in Ohio. Bear in mind that in the last one hundred years and occupants to the White House, every single one of them has had a pet except Donald Trump. Because he's a sociopath. Because maybe he.

We were asking him about immigration. It. Yeah, now in the Biden debate, go back to my bizarro world thing. The Biden date debate. Rightly, Biden got a question about abortion his strength and turn into an immigration question. And that's when you knew he had really lost it. You're like, what are you doing? You're talking about immigration. They set you up, They put it on the tee abortion, talk about Rugby Wade. Last night, Trump got asked about immigration. Here's the issue he wants to talk about, sweet spot, but Harris had baited him on the crowd size thing. He turned away from immigration and then proceeded to discuss the size of his crowds. World War III was coming, the size of his crowds again, and then the apparent obviously completely made up Holocaust of the cats, dogs and pets in Ohio. Bear in mind that in the last one hundred years and occupants to the White House, every single one of them has had a pet except Donald Trump. Because he's a sociopath. Because maybe he.

Doesn't like to snack at night, he doesn't, he doesn't.

Doesn't like to snack at night, he doesn't, he doesn't.

The guy cares less about dogs and cats than any occupant of the Whitehouse ever, and that includes like other bona fide sociopaths.

The guy cares less about dogs and cats than any occupant of the Whitehouse ever, and that includes like other bona fide sociopaths.

Well, that is such an example to you. Give Donald Trump enough time. He's not prepped for anything. He's always grasped me at straws and frankly, he's only got a handful of straws. Right, He's got he's got his immigration as well as did a couple of things. He's going to bang that drum and whatever he read on the internet that day, and that's what you see, getting an ample. But he brings the Internet to life.

Well, that is such an example to you. Give Donald Trump enough time. He's not prepped for anything. He's always grasped me at straws and frankly, he's only got a handful of straws. Right, He's got he's got his immigration as well as did a couple of things. He's going to bang that drum and whatever he read on the internet that day, and that's what you see, getting an ample. But he brings the Internet to life.

And you saw Laura, you saw when he arrived in Philly, Laura Lumer, who's like literally the craziest person on the right, crazier than anybody in the history of the right.

And you saw Laura, you saw when he arrived in Philly, Laura Lumer, who's like literally the craziest person on the right, crazier than anybody in the history of the right.

That's all of a crown to wear.

That's all of a crown to wear.

When she got off the plane, you knew you were like, he's going to be talking about the cat carnage in the non existent cat carnage in Ohio, and I will I will say this again just to the question of can he be a discipline candidate? What's the other thing he was supposed to do last night? Tie Kamala Harris to Joe Biden's economic record. The first time he mentioned it was at the one hour and twenty four minute mark of a one hour and thirty minute debate, and the way he mentioned it was to say, she is Joe Biden. She is Joe Biden. And again back to the split screen, Coli Hares like, I don't really think I'm Joe Biden. No, I mean, can people see that I'm not Joe Biden. He did it. He finally decided to do what he did so badly that she could just it's like not going to weigh with a Laplain.

When she got off the plane, you knew you were like, he's going to be talking about the cat carnage in the non existent cat carnage in Ohio, and I will I will say this again just to the question of can he be a discipline candidate? What's the other thing he was supposed to do last night? Tie Kamala Harris to Joe Biden's economic record. The first time he mentioned it was at the one hour and twenty four minute mark of a one hour and thirty minute debate, and the way he mentioned it was to say, she is Joe Biden. She is Joe Biden. And again back to the split screen, Coli Hares like, I don't really think I'm Joe Biden. No, I mean, can people see that I'm not Joe Biden. He did it. He finally decided to do what he did so badly that she could just it's like not going to weigh with a Laplain.

Well, she got asked that question right off the bat, and she said, I'm gonna talk about my history.

Well, she got asked that question right off the bat, and she said, I'm gonna talk about my history.

That's totally And you heard Jadi Vance afterwards in the spin room where I was talking about how you know Trump made these points in his closing statement. I'm like, ah, now that's a strong candidate, the one who remembers, Hey, it's my closing statement, I might want to say that thing about Biden, you know. And at the end, do.

That's totally And you heard Jadi Vance afterwards in the spin room where I was talking about how you know Trump made these points in his closing statement. I'm like, ah, now that's a strong candidate, the one who remembers, Hey, it's my closing statement, I might want to say that thing about Biden, you know. And at the end, do.

People around I guess my question do people around him? One do they really have an expectation of changing Donald Trump in that way? And two? Did they have a sense of what truly is happening? I hear the moment where Donald Trump comes out and he has those bullshit numbers, and of course he's always pulling out numbers that make the most sense to him. But are they giving him numbers that make him comfortable in that moment? What is what is their awareness the Trump the Trump circle? What is their awareness of what is happening?

People around I guess my question do people around him? One do they really have an expectation of changing Donald Trump in that way? And two? Did they have a sense of what truly is happening? I hear the moment where Donald Trump comes out and he has those bullshit numbers, and of course he's always pulling out numbers that make the most sense to him. But are they giving him numbers that make him comfortable in that moment? What is what is their awareness the Trump the Trump circle? What is their awareness of what is happening?

It's not a monolith, right, you know. Trump has now brought Corey Lewandwski back into the fold. Krey Lewundwski is the ultimate Let Trump be Trump candidate Trump. Corey was exiled. Now he's back. His job is to do things that make Trump happy so that he will not be exiled again. The professionals in that group, people like Chris Lossivita, the campaign manager, and Casus you Wiles, the co campaign manager. You would say whatever you want about them and their values or whatever in working for Trump. But there are professional people who've run important campaigns before, and they are the ones begging Donald Trump to please talk about how she's in San Francisco liberal, talk about how she's a flip flopper, talk about how she's a phony, talk about trying to make her explain how she went from being in favor of all these liberal positions to being against them. And they are, I think constantly must live in hope because if they don't live in the hope that they can change him in some way. You know, the world is very cold and dark if you think that, if you think that this Donald Trump is going to be the Donald Trump, you're going to get for the next fifty five days before election day because that's a Donald Trump. I'm not saying you can't win Jordan, because it's going to be really, really close. But man, I think you know, every Republican strategist in the country looks and says, if this guy ran a standard Republican campaign against her, there's a playbook, and he appreciably increase his odds of winning if he were to be able to remotely execute that. And we have no sign that he can there's this also the thing you were talking about this a little bit before. You know, I've been in a lot of spin rooms in my life, you know, and yeah, very and.

It's not a monolith, right, you know. Trump has now brought Corey Lewandwski back into the fold. Krey Lewundwski is the ultimate Let Trump be Trump candidate Trump. Corey was exiled. Now he's back. His job is to do things that make Trump happy so that he will not be exiled again. The professionals in that group, people like Chris Lossivita, the campaign manager, and Casus you Wiles, the co campaign manager. You would say whatever you want about them and their values or whatever in working for Trump. But there are professional people who've run important campaigns before, and they are the ones begging Donald Trump to please talk about how she's in San Francisco liberal, talk about how she's a flip flopper, talk about how she's a phony, talk about trying to make her explain how she went from being in favor of all these liberal positions to being against them. And they are, I think constantly must live in hope because if they don't live in the hope that they can change him in some way. You know, the world is very cold and dark if you think that, if you think that this Donald Trump is going to be the Donald Trump, you're going to get for the next fifty five days before election day because that's a Donald Trump. I'm not saying you can't win Jordan, because it's going to be really, really close. But man, I think you know, every Republican strategist in the country looks and says, if this guy ran a standard Republican campaign against her, there's a playbook, and he appreciably increase his odds of winning if he were to be able to remotely execute that. And we have no sign that he can there's this also the thing you were talking about this a little bit before. You know, I've been in a lot of spin rooms in my life, you know, and yeah, very and.

I'm very impressed. Pretty cool room to be and you get to hang out with Scaramucci now, and then yeah, you.

I'm very impressed. Pretty cool room to be and you get to hang out with Scaramucci now, and then yeah, you.

Get to be with the mooch. Here's the thing about this. People go, oh, you're going are you in there? Somebody wh wrote to me last night, a friend who said, were you in the room where it happens? I'm like, no, the press is never in the room where it happens. We don't sit in the debate hall. We sit in a room next to the room where it happens, and we all gets together in a giant room watching it on TV. And this is just like you at home. And the only advantage is that when it's over, a bunch of professional liars come out and get and we get to be lied to you to our face.

Get to be with the mooch. Here's the thing about this. People go, oh, you're going are you in there? Somebody wh wrote to me last night, a friend who said, were you in the room where it happens? I'm like, no, the press is never in the room where it happens. We don't sit in the debate hall. We sit in a room next to the room where it happens, and we all gets together in a giant room watching it on TV. And this is just like you at home. And the only advantage is that when it's over, a bunch of professional liars come out and get and we get to be lied to you to our face.

But that but don't you think there's seven I ever miss it. But it feels like we talked about this in the beginning of our show. It feels like Trump thinks that is the room where it happens. Wow, he doesn't, he doesn't prep for a debate to articulate a vision of the future to America. He preps for a time to to lick his wounds and bullshit the press with more cameras. That's where all his energy goes. You've got the show. Sadly. People shouldn't be performing for you, that's a nightmare. People should be Trump should be performing for the people at home. But he doesn't see it that way.

But that but don't you think there's seven I ever miss it. But it feels like we talked about this in the beginning of our show. It feels like Trump thinks that is the room where it happens. Wow, he doesn't, he doesn't prep for a debate to articulate a vision of the future to America. He preps for a time to to lick his wounds and bullshit the press with more cameras. That's where all his energy goes. You've got the show. Sadly. People shouldn't be performing for you, that's a nightmare. People should be Trump should be performing for the people at home. But he doesn't see it that way.

You know, I think I may have told you this story for a little while twenty fifteen, twenty.

You know, I think I may have told you this story for a little while twenty fifteen, twenty.

Tell me, don't retell me a story Trump, Well.

Tell me, don't retell me a story Trump, Well.

These people haven't heard. Trump liked me for a little while, he liked you. I wrote a tweet about him when he first entered the race in twenty fifteen. I said, you know, the Republican Party is getting more racist, nationalist, and xenophobic. I think Donald Trump has a chant to win. And I saw him a face to face interview with him the next day and he said, and after he had tweeted at Jay Hollis finally started to understand me. And I went to this interview with him and I said, you know, I thought you might be pissed, and he was like no. At that moment, it was. There were people who didn't think he could win and people who thought he could win binary and if you were on the side of people who took him seriously, he didn't care. Why you could have said the whole country is now members Lukuk Cook's clan, Donald Trump's to show in he would have been like, thank you, understand it. He didn't care. He just didn't want to be He didn't like the people who were saying, he has no chance, he's a buffoon, he's doing this as a branding exercise. I was on the other side, and for a little while, whenever I would see him, he would say, Heilman, you're starting to understand me. We're both German, and that always freaked me out because I'm not like really German, like any meaningful way, you know, and I mean the name. I have a German from the German descent, but I'm not like I didn't grow up in in Munich, you.

These people haven't heard. Trump liked me for a little while, he liked you. I wrote a tweet about him when he first entered the race in twenty fifteen. I said, you know, the Republican Party is getting more racist, nationalist, and xenophobic. I think Donald Trump has a chant to win. And I saw him a face to face interview with him the next day and he said, and after he had tweeted at Jay Hollis finally started to understand me. And I went to this interview with him and I said, you know, I thought you might be pissed, and he was like no. At that moment, it was. There were people who didn't think he could win and people who thought he could win binary and if you were on the side of people who took him seriously, he didn't care. Why you could have said the whole country is now members Lukuk Cook's clan, Donald Trump's to show in he would have been like, thank you, understand it. He didn't care. He just didn't want to be He didn't like the people who were saying, he has no chance, he's a buffoon, he's doing this as a branding exercise. I was on the other side, and for a little while, whenever I would see him, he would say, Heilman, you're starting to understand me. We're both German, and that always freaked me out because I'm not like really German, like any meaningful way, you know, and I mean the name. I have a German from the German descent, but I'm not like I didn't grow up in in Munich, you.

Know, or you know it's not my but he saw something in Yes, it was very like.

Know, or you know it's not my but he saw something in Yes, it was very like.

It was always like a lot of like he's always like you know, yeah, I like yeah, you know, starting to come around on haircut. The the meaner I was, the more he liked me until until he then got an office and my secret service code name became that mother. Well, that's a that's a step up. It's a step out of a step up. I'll tell you what you can see in the spin room last night, though, is that it's not hard to know that those things that you find out from your sources about how the dial groups went, it's not hard to read the faces. And I will tell you I posted a tweet. Yeah, last night, I took a picture as I was walking out of Matt Gates. What's his name, uh uh Miller, Matt Gate, Stephen Miller. And this the skinniest, most inselly looking guy in the world who was carrying their little sad sign out in the spino because they have a little person who carries a sign. If you were in the spin room, they would carry a littleign that would say Clipper on it, or if they wanted to get some attention, it would say Stuart Okay, you.

It was always like a lot of like he's always like you know, yeah, I like yeah, you know, starting to come around on haircut. The the meaner I was, the more he liked me until until he then got an office and my secret service code name became that mother. Well, that's a that's a step up. It's a step out of a step up. I'll tell you what you can see in the spin room last night, though, is that it's not hard to know that those things that you find out from your sources about how the dial groups went, it's not hard to read the faces. And I will tell you I posted a tweet. Yeah, last night, I took a picture as I was walking out of Matt Gates. What's his name, uh uh Miller, Matt Gate, Stephen Miller. And this the skinniest, most inselly looking guy in the world who was carrying their little sad sign out in the spino because they have a little person who carries a sign. If you were in the spin room, they would carry a littleign that would say Clipper on it, or if they wanted to get some attention, it would say Stuart Okay, you.

Know I'm gonna yeah, there you go.

Know I'm gonna yeah, there you go.

George Jordan. Jordan's having a hard time with that, with that, with that wax there.

George Jordan. Jordan's having a hard time with that, with that, with that wax there.

It's a it's a hard whack.

It's a it's a hard whack.

It's a hard can I have you been Have you been skimming on the gym?

It's a hard can I have you been Have you been skimming on the gym?

Sessions says, I'm waiting to laughter the election. You know, Uh, this will be good later.

Sessions says, I'm waiting to laughter the election. You know, Uh, this will be good later.

Yeah, but this picture now, I'm not gonna be Yeah.

Yeah, but this picture now, I'm not gonna be Yeah.

I was gonna say, look at this, Look at this. It's tough. Is the bourbon's much easier?

I was gonna say, look at this, Look at this. It's tough. Is the bourbon's much easier?

Is there no one around you who can help us here? That's that's that's really what waxed on it. It's like Miagi, wax on, wax off, stay focused, all right, I'm trying. I'm trying. I'm trying.

Is there no one around you who can help us here? That's that's that's really what waxed on it. It's like Miagi, wax on, wax off, stay focused, all right, I'm trying. I'm trying. I'm trying.

I gotta wrap this up. This ain't a Gates.

I gotta wrap this up. This ain't a Gates.

Gates Miller and this little skinny kid, right, they look so sad and uh, you know, I saw the various response tweets. People would say, you know, an incel neo Nazi in a pedophile walk into a bar. That's the way. That's the way a lot of great jokes start. And Matt Matt Gates was wearing these white like sketchers with like like job black jogging pants as his suit bottoms and then a suit jacket on top. I mean, he looked like he was ready for a del Boca vista basically at his age.

Gates Miller and this little skinny kid, right, they look so sad and uh, you know, I saw the various response tweets. People would say, you know, an incel neo Nazi in a pedophile walk into a bar. That's the way. That's the way a lot of great jokes start. And Matt Matt Gates was wearing these white like sketchers with like like job black jogging pants as his suit bottoms and then a suit jacket on top. I mean, he looked like he was ready for a del Boca vista basically at his age.

I mean Honestly, I think that's a step forward. If he's trying to appeal to the older folks. I think, you know, I'll take it with net Kate.

I mean Honestly, I think that's a step forward. If he's trying to appeal to the older folks. I think, you know, I'll take it with net Kate.

But I'll tell you when I looked at that, I was thinking about you know what I what I had thought is I heard about the dial groups from the insiders of the campaign. I thought, you know, David Pluff, David Binder, the focus group, pulling impresario from Obama who's now working for Harris. They are not like champagne popping types, you know, They're like they'd like try to keep but they were metaphorically popping champagne corks last night at how well that are handed it did in the Trump world. They were popping like either like male ex or coonicpin I don't know which, but they were. They were not there. And when those guys showed up and I looked at them, I was like, those guys are either very very sad, very very drugged up, or someone killed their pets. Maybe that's they lost their They looked like a bunch of guys who had their had their cats and dogs. Like take it out by some imaginary Haitians in Ohio.

But I'll tell you when I looked at that, I was thinking about you know what I what I had thought is I heard about the dial groups from the insiders of the campaign. I thought, you know, David Pluff, David Binder, the focus group, pulling impresario from Obama who's now working for Harris. They are not like champagne popping types, you know, They're like they'd like try to keep but they were metaphorically popping champagne corks last night at how well that are handed it did in the Trump world. They were popping like either like male ex or coonicpin I don't know which, but they were. They were not there. And when those guys showed up and I looked at them, I was like, those guys are either very very sad, very very drugged up, or someone killed their pets. Maybe that's they lost their They looked like a bunch of guys who had their had their cats and dogs. Like take it out by some imaginary Haitians in Ohio.

Yeah, take it from the sad Man and the Sketchers. I think that's how the Demate went. Be sure to check out John's column at PO and It's podcast in politics, We've got Ale Man.

Yeah, take it from the sad Man and the Sketchers. I think that's how the Demate went. Be sure to check out John's column at PO and It's podcast in politics, We've got Ale Man.

Welcome back to the Daily Show.

Welcome back to the Daily Show.

My guest tonight is an historian and a New York Times bestselling author whose latest book is called Nexus, A Brief History of Information Networks from the Stone Age to AI. Please welcome, you've all Noah Harario. You are a popular writer. Your books have sold over forty five million copies. Whoom. The Atlantic referred to some of your writing style as since the Dawn of Time style books. You go way back and you bring us into the future. These are big, important tomes simultaneously. I heard you meditate for two hours every single day. Yes, how you make all this happen?

My guest tonight is an historian and a New York Times bestselling author whose latest book is called Nexus, A Brief History of Information Networks from the Stone Age to AI. Please welcome, you've all Noah Harario. You are a popular writer. Your books have sold over forty five million copies. Whoom. The Atlantic referred to some of your writing style as since the Dawn of Time style books. You go way back and you bring us into the future. These are big, important tomes simultaneously. I heard you meditate for two hours every single day. Yes, how you make all this happen?

I don't have kids.

I don't have kids.

You don't have kids?

You don't have kids?

What have I done?

What have I done?

Why don't you write a pamphlet that says just that you want to get shipped done? Don't have kids.

Why don't you write a pamphlet that says just that you want to get shipped done? Don't have kids.

Some people manage to do both.

Some people manage to do both.

But you know, but you have time to dive into this. I'm curious. This book is about information. Yeah, and you reject the notion that more information is a good thing, that it leads to truth and wisdom. Is this you being jaded by the Trump administration and the time we're in, or does this thought process go back?

But you know, but you have time to dive into this. I'm curious. This book is about information. Yeah, and you reject the notion that more information is a good thing, that it leads to truth and wisdom. Is this you being jaded by the Trump administration and the time we're in, or does this thought process go back?

You know, it's basically like thinking that more food is always good for you. You know, there is a limit to how much food the body needs, and in a similar way, there is a limit to how much food for the thought. Food food for the mind the mind it needs, which is information. And the same way that most there is so much junk food outer, there is also so much junk information out there, and we basically need to go on an information diet.

You know, it's basically like thinking that more food is always good for you. You know, there is a limit to how much food the body needs, and in a similar way, there is a limit to how much food for the thought. Food food for the mind the mind it needs, which is information. And the same way that most there is so much junk food outer, there is also so much junk information out there, and we basically need to go on an information diet.

Yes, but I need my sweet sweet Twitter snacks. I need it. I need it.

Yes, but I need my sweet sweet Twitter snacks. I need it. I need it.

It's exactly that. The same way that over the last few generations they learned the industries learned how to produce artificial food, which is pumped full of fat and sugar and salt and is addictive and not good for us. They've also learned how to manufacture this artificial information, which is pumped full of greed and hate and fear and is addictive to our mind and isn't good for it.

It's exactly that. The same way that over the last few generations they learned the industries learned how to produce artificial food, which is pumped full of fat and sugar and salt and is addictive and not good for us. They've also learned how to manufacture this artificial information, which is pumped full of greed and hate and fear and is addictive to our mind and isn't good for it.

Now, I totally agree, and I feel stuffed on all of it. But I also have this feeling that when you step outside of this information mainstream, that's just that this pipeline of bs that is out there, that you certainly step out of the conversation. It feels like we don't have the luxury of going on a diet if you want to be part of the conversation around.

Now, I totally agree, and I feel stuffed on all of it. But I also have this feeling that when you step outside of this information mainstream, that's just that this pipeline of bs that is out there, that you certainly step out of the conversation. It feels like we don't have the luxury of going on a diet if you want to be part of the conversation around.

Us, because the conversation is increasingly managed not by human beings but by algorithms, and algorithms function in a completely different way than us. They are not organic. For instance, human beings, as organic animals, we run by cycles. Sometimes we need to be very active, sometimes we need to rest. But algorithms never rest. They are tireless, and they expect us to be the same. So we now live in this news cycle which never rests. And the same thing happens in politics, in finance, you know previously if you think about Wall Street, so even Wall Street takes rests. The market is open from Mondays to Fridays nine thirty in the morning to four o'clock in the afternoon. That's it. If a new war erupts in the Middle East, an unlikely event, but let's say a new war erupt in the Middle East. When on Friday at five minutes past four world. Streets will react only on Monday morning. It is on weekend vacation. And this is actually a good thing, because if you force organic entities to be on all the time, they eventually collapse and die, which is really what is happening to us as individuals and as societies. I think maybe the most misunderstood and abused word in the English language today is the word excited. People think that excited means happy, like I meet you and I say, I'm so excited to meet you.

Us, because the conversation is increasingly managed not by human beings but by algorithms, and algorithms function in a completely different way than us. They are not organic. For instance, human beings, as organic animals, we run by cycles. Sometimes we need to be very active, sometimes we need to rest. But algorithms never rest. They are tireless, and they expect us to be the same. So we now live in this news cycle which never rests. And the same thing happens in politics, in finance, you know previously if you think about Wall Street, so even Wall Street takes rests. The market is open from Mondays to Fridays nine thirty in the morning to four o'clock in the afternoon. That's it. If a new war erupts in the Middle East, an unlikely event, but let's say a new war erupt in the Middle East. When on Friday at five minutes past four world. Streets will react only on Monday morning. It is on weekend vacation. And this is actually a good thing, because if you force organic entities to be on all the time, they eventually collapse and die, which is really what is happening to us as individuals and as societies. I think maybe the most misunderstood and abused word in the English language today is the word excited. People think that excited means happy, like I meet you and I say, I'm so excited to meet you.

That's what happened with us next stage.

That's what happened with us next stage.

Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, But exciting excited doesn't mean happy. Excited means that all your nervous systems and your brain is like fuzzing. It's on, and it's it's good to be excited sometime, But if you keep an organic being an animal excited all the time, it eventually collapses and dies.

Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, But exciting excited doesn't mean happy. Excited means that all your nervous systems and your brain is like fuzzing. It's on, and it's it's good to be excited sometime, But if you keep an organic being an animal excited all the time, it eventually collapses and dies.

So you're saying beforehand, I should have said.

So you're saying beforehand, I should have said.

Relax to meet you.

Relax to meet you.

I'm relaxed to meet you. I apologize I'm dead inside, but that's not your problem. Thing.

I'm relaxed to meet you. I apologize I'm dead inside, but that's not your problem. Thing.

For instance, about the election cycles and US politics, wouldn't it be better if it was a bit more boring.

For instance, about the election cycles and US politics, wouldn't it be better if it was a bit more boring.

I would love it if it were boring, I would love it if it we're boring, and we see what happens in Europe where it's shorter. It's boring. But everything, everything is pulling us to maximalize, right The idea that the fact that if we had a new cycle that could end on Friday and we pick it back up on Monday would be fantastic, But it doesn't seem like the algorithms, doesn't seem like the financial benefits are pushing us in that direction at all. Where do you see a path like that going through?

I would love it if it were boring, I would love it if it we're boring, and we see what happens in Europe where it's shorter. It's boring. But everything, everything is pulling us to maximalize, right The idea that the fact that if we had a new cycle that could end on Friday and we pick it back up on Monday would be fantastic, But it doesn't seem like the algorithms, doesn't seem like the financial benefits are pushing us in that direction at all. Where do you see a path like that going through?

If you keep kind of increasing the pace all the time, we can't handle it, So the algorithms can, so they take over. But it's not good news for humanity. We need to slow down, basically. And you know, we are facing now these non organic entities which work and think in a completely different way from us. And the question is who is going to adapt to whom.

If you keep kind of increasing the pace all the time, we can't handle it, So the algorithms can, so they take over. But it's not good news for humanity. We need to slow down, basically. And you know, we are facing now these non organic entities which work and think in a completely different way from us. And the question is who is going to adapt to whom.

You're pointing at AI? Now? Is AI? Do you see it as an existential threat? Like I've seen some of these shrimp jesuses and I don't like it, these weird images that pop up online. But I don't necessarily connect that with the end of conversation.

You're pointing at AI? Now? Is AI? Do you see it as an existential threat? Like I've seen some of these shrimp jesuses and I don't like it, these weird images that pop up online. But I don't necessarily connect that with the end of conversation.

I think The most important thing to understand about AI is that AI is not a tool. It is an agent. It's the first technology in history that can make decisions and invent new ideas by itself. Even something as powerful as the atom bomb could not decide anything by itself. All the decisions were made by humans. Now we've created something which potentially can take power away from us at present. It starts with very small things like for instance, there was an experiment when open ai developed GPT four like two years ago. They want to test what can this thing do? So they gave it a task to solve capture puzzles. The cupture puzzles like when you go online and you want to access your bank or whatever, and they have this riddle that you have to solve. An image that you have to say, what are the twisted words and letters to make sure you are not a robot.

I think The most important thing to understand about AI is that AI is not a tool. It is an agent. It's the first technology in history that can make decisions and invent new ideas by itself. Even something as powerful as the atom bomb could not decide anything by itself. All the decisions were made by humans. Now we've created something which potentially can take power away from us at present. It starts with very small things like for instance, there was an experiment when open ai developed GPT four like two years ago. They want to test what can this thing do? So they gave it a task to solve capture puzzles. The cupture puzzles like when you go online and you want to access your bank or whatever, and they have this riddle that you have to solve. An image that you have to say, what are the twisted words and letters to make sure you are not a robot.

It's tough, Yeah, is that a street line? Is that a bicycle? Will? I don't know, Let me do it again, refresh and.

It's tough, Yeah, is that a street line? Is that a bicycle? Will? I don't know, Let me do it again, refresh and.

It's it's really difficult for GPT four. GPT four could not solve the capture But what GPD four did it access task rabbit, which is an online site where you can hire humans to do different things for you, and it asked a human to solve the copture for it. Now the human got suspicious. The human ask why do you need somebody to solve capture for you? Are you a robot? It asked directly, are you a robot? And GPT four answered no, I'm not a robot. I have a vision impairment, which is why I can't solve the cop chab.

It's it's really difficult for GPT four. GPT four could not solve the capture But what GPD four did it access task rabbit, which is an online site where you can hire humans to do different things for you, and it asked a human to solve the copture for it. Now the human got suspicious. The human ask why do you need somebody to solve capture for you? Are you a robot? It asked directly, are you a robot? And GPT four answered no, I'm not a robot. I have a vision impairment, which is why I can't solve the cop chab.

So I need your help to fully to the truly evolved human is not somebody who's smarter. It's just somebody who gets somebody else to do the work for them. Smart.

So I need your help to fully to the truly evolved human is not somebody who's smarter. It's just somebody who gets somebody else to do the work for them. Smart.

Yeah, scary, very scary.

Yeah, scary, very scary.

It's scary. You talk a little bit about uh, there's a portionary. You talk about the artist's role in the community of whether it's comedy or writers or filmmakers. People talk about is Ai coming for our jobs? Part of what you articulate right here is that it's an artist's job to sort of paint these fears. Let us understand the dynamics of human interaction. You break things down into what these social networks need. And I'm paraphrasing, but like both stories of mythology that lift us up and also articulations of the bureaucracy.

It's scary. You talk a little bit about uh, there's a portionary. You talk about the artist's role in the community of whether it's comedy or writers or filmmakers. People talk about is Ai coming for our jobs? Part of what you articulate right here is that it's an artist's job to sort of paint these fears. Let us understand the dynamics of human interaction. You break things down into what these social networks need. And I'm paraphrasing, but like both stories of mythology that lift us up and also articulations of the bureaucracy.

Bureaucrossy is very important, it's very.

Bureaucrossy is very important, it's very.

Important, which I think is explain that to me a little bit. But I also feel it's very difficult also for artists to articulate bureaucracy.

Important, which I think is explain that to me a little bit. But I also feel it's very difficult also for artists to articulate bureaucracy.

That's the problem. We are very good at articulating mythology. We love mythological stories, and mythology is very important, but ultimately, our world, the modern world, is built on bureaucracies. And this is also where AI fits into the picture, because we are now going to see millions and millions of AI bureaucrats. The kind of existential threat we are facing is not this Hollywood scenario of a single computer trying to take over the world. It's millions of AI bureaucrats in the banks, in the governments, in the armies, in the schools make decisions about us. Like you apply to a bank to get a loan, and it's an AI bureaucrat deciding whether to give.

That's the problem. We are very good at articulating mythology. We love mythological stories, and mythology is very important, but ultimately, our world, the modern world, is built on bureaucracies. And this is also where AI fits into the picture, because we are now going to see millions and millions of AI bureaucrats. The kind of existential threat we are facing is not this Hollywood scenario of a single computer trying to take over the world. It's millions of AI bureaucrats in the banks, in the governments, in the armies, in the schools make decisions about us. Like you apply to a bank to get a loan, and it's an AI bureaucrat deciding whether to give.

You a loan or not.

You a loan or not.

You apply for the job for a place in college, it's the same thing.

You apply for the job for a place in college, it's the same thing.

Now.

Now.

The thing with bureaucracy, it's boring. It's boring. It's very difficult for artists to write good stories about bureaucracies. But if the function of art is help us understand reality, this is much more important than telling mythological stories. And you know when was the last time you saw a really good TV show about bureaucracy.

The thing with bureaucracy, it's boring. It's boring. It's very difficult for artists to write good stories about bureaucracies. But if the function of art is help us understand reality, this is much more important than telling mythological stories. And you know when was the last time you saw a really good TV show about bureaucracy.

Let's say about the budget, like, I'm a twelve part series on the budget right now? That is well, well, I think about it. I think of like movies like The Big Short. For every the Big Short, you have a thousand Marvel movies exactly live in the world of mythology.

Let's say about the budget, like, I'm a twelve part series on the budget right now? That is well, well, I think about it. I think of like movies like The Big Short. For every the Big Short, you have a thousand Marvel movies exactly live in the world of mythology.

Yeah, so superheroes, this is mythology. This is not how the not how the budget works. You don't have a super accout fighting against I don't know what.

Yeah, so superheroes, this is mythology. This is not how the not how the budget works. You don't have a super accout fighting against I don't know what.

Yeah, we can workshops, Yeah, but you know what shapes.

Yeah, we can workshops, Yeah, but you know what shapes.

Your life is these accountants with the budgets far more than the superheroes. And it's really a challenge to do a good TV series about the budget. And even if we try, it will end up again like a love story between somebody in accounts and somebody in another department, and the budget will be pushed to the side. But we need to really understand how these things work.

Your life is these accountants with the budgets far more than the superheroes. And it's really a challenge to do a good TV series about the budget. And even if we try, it will end up again like a love story between somebody in accounts and somebody in another department, and the budget will be pushed to the side. But we need to really understand how these things work.

I think what I love about a lot of your work is it does explore the stories that we tell and how important that is to just humankind, and the way that we create societies and build off one another's and the danger of not telling those stories or not bringing people in together. I think when I fear about our future and our democracies and they are building to hold these conversations, I think about things like AI, but I also very much think about these mediums that our conversations are taking place, whether it's on Twitter or cable news or TikTok like, none of these mediums are pointing towards or value any type of conversation that is helpful in a way that is beneficial. So I'm afraid of the AI in the way that we're tracking, but I don't see a platform or a place where the conversations that need to happen can happen.

I think what I love about a lot of your work is it does explore the stories that we tell and how important that is to just humankind, and the way that we create societies and build off one another's and the danger of not telling those stories or not bringing people in together. I think when I fear about our future and our democracies and they are building to hold these conversations, I think about things like AI, but I also very much think about these mediums that our conversations are taking place, whether it's on Twitter or cable news or TikTok like, none of these mediums are pointing towards or value any type of conversation that is helpful in a way that is beneficial. So I'm afraid of the AI in the way that we're tracking, but I don't see a platform or a place where the conversations that need to happen can happen.

I think the number one question to ask to the Superbergs and the elun Masks of the world and.

I think the number one question to ask to the Superbergs and the elun Masks of the world and.

Softie have their number, I text them right now.

Softie have their number, I text them right now.

So if you have the number of this is the question, how is it that we have the most sophisticated information technology in history and we can no longer hold the conversation, We can no longer talk with each other. That's the big question. And you see it in democracies all over the world. You see it here in the US, you see it in my home country in Israel, you see it in Brazil, in the Philippines, in France. The conversation is break king down. So what is happening This extremely sophisticated information technology. It is not helping the conversation. It is destroying it.

So if you have the number of this is the question, how is it that we have the most sophisticated information technology in history and we can no longer hold the conversation, We can no longer talk with each other. That's the big question. And you see it in democracies all over the world. You see it here in the US, you see it in my home country in Israel, you see it in Brazil, in the Philippines, in France. The conversation is break king down. So what is happening This extremely sophisticated information technology. It is not helping the conversation. It is destroying it.

One hundred percent. I talk to older people on the road who go to like people at rallies, at Marga rallys, who will go to Facebook as a place to converse with friends. And frankly, if you're in your sixties, that's the place to talk to friends, to connect. But in order to be a person on Facebook's not enough for you just to converse with the friends you have there. You have to publish news sources to get people to pay attention to you. And I feel like the Zuckerberg's and the facebooks and these media sites that we have right now. We promise this idea of conversation or that you can connect with friends, but we ask people to be publishers of ideas and stories and promoters of things that are outside the realm of what makes a healthy conversation, and more so, money up the ability to have that honest conversation.

One hundred percent. I talk to older people on the road who go to like people at rallies, at Marga rallys, who will go to Facebook as a place to converse with friends. And frankly, if you're in your sixties, that's the place to talk to friends, to connect. But in order to be a person on Facebook's not enough for you just to converse with the friends you have there. You have to publish news sources to get people to pay attention to you. And I feel like the Zuckerberg's and the facebooks and these media sites that we have right now. We promise this idea of conversation or that you can connect with friends, but we ask people to be publishers of ideas and stories and promoters of things that are outside the realm of what makes a healthy conversation, and more so, money up the ability to have that honest conversation.

Traditionally, and we've been in this place every time a new information technology was invented, we faced the same difficulties. For instance, when the printing revolution swept Europe in the early modern period, it did not lead directly, as many people think, to the scientific Revolution. The best sellers of the early print era were not Scoopernicus and Galileo Galilei and Newton. Hardly anybody read those books. The big best sellers were religious tracts and were witch hunting manuals, the big witch hunts. They were not a medieval phenomena. Medieval people didn't care very much about witches. The really big witch hunts they began after the print revolution. One of the biggest best sellers was a book called The Hammer of the Witches, which was a do it yourself manual to identifying and killing witches, hammer the Hammer of the Witches, and it was full of these stories about canniballistic OG's and got the rings of And this was far more interesting than Copernicus with own mathematics.

Traditionally, and we've been in this place every time a new information technology was invented, we faced the same difficulties. For instance, when the printing revolution swept Europe in the early modern period, it did not lead directly, as many people think, to the scientific Revolution. The best sellers of the early print era were not Scoopernicus and Galileo Galilei and Newton. Hardly anybody read those books. The big best sellers were religious tracts and were witch hunting manuals, the big witch hunts. They were not a medieval phenomena. Medieval people didn't care very much about witches. The really big witch hunts they began after the print revolution. One of the biggest best sellers was a book called The Hammer of the Witches, which was a do it yourself manual to identifying and killing witches, hammer the Hammer of the Witches, and it was full of these stories about canniballistic OG's and got the rings of And this was far more interesting than Copernicus with own mathematics.

I gotta say, I'm writing a Hammer of the Witches that sounds good. Hammer of the Witch is also my favorite led Zeppelin album.

I gotta say, I'm writing a Hammer of the Witches that sounds good. Hammer of the Witch is also my favorite led Zeppelin album.

For instance. If you want to really understand, like Qannon today, it's basically the same story. There is a conspiracy of Satan worshiping witches that is trying to destroy the world, and good Christians need the ability to identify and destroy these witches. It's not a new thing on Facebook or Twitter. It goes back to the print revolution in the fifteenth and sixteenth century.

For instance. If you want to really understand, like Qannon today, it's basically the same story. There is a conspiracy of Satan worshiping witches that is trying to destroy the world, and good Christians need the ability to identify and destroy these witches. It's not a new thing on Facebook or Twitter. It goes back to the print revolution in the fifteenth and sixteenth century.

Are there any examples looking back at history though, where we face these technological watershed moments where we are given new technology and that humanity has decided to revert and say no to it and move beyond it. It feels like a foregone conclusion that we are heading into this Ai revolution and we're not writing the rules. A couple of rich folks Intelicon Valley.

Are there any examples looking back at history though, where we face these technological watershed moments where we are given new technology and that humanity has decided to revert and say no to it and move beyond it. It feels like a foregone conclusion that we are heading into this Ai revolution and we're not writing the rules. A couple of rich folks Intelicon Valley.

Are you can't go back in history, That's impossible. But the answer is always the same. You need institutions. You know, institutions. They are not heroic, they are not superheroes. They don't they are not kind of the main theme of Marvel movies. But they are always people reach the conclusion they are the answer because if you want to you know, in the ocean of fake and junk information. If you want to know the truth, you need institutions like newspapers, like academic associations like quotes that develop mechanisms to sift through the evidence and decide what is reliable information and what is unreliable. Again, it's not heroic, but this is always the answer, and we need to do it again with the current inform.