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Hey, this is Ryan Jang. The Daily Show is on break this week, but don't worry. We put together some special highlights for you to catch up on in case you miss then we'll be back on September tenth. Until then, enjoyed this episode. Welcome.

Hey, this is Ryan Jang. The Daily Show is on break this week, but don't worry. We put together some special highlights for you to catch up on in case you miss then we'll be back on September tenth. Until then, enjoyed this episode. Welcome.

We have two incredible guests tonight. Rebecca Tracer is a writer for New York Magazine and author of Good and Mad, and Britney Cooper is a professor at Rutgers University and author of Eloquent Rage. Please welcome Rebecca Tracer and Britney Cooper.

We have two incredible guests tonight. Rebecca Tracer is a writer for New York Magazine and author of Good and Mad, and Britney Cooper is a professor at Rutgers University and author of Eloquent Rage. Please welcome Rebecca Tracer and Britney Cooper.

Welcome through the show. Thank you so much for being here here.

Welcome through the show. Thank you so much for being here here.

I am so excited to have you both on in this moment. In particular, there's been a real vibe shift here with Kamala Harris entering the race, and Rebecca, you wrote this incredible article that I felt so beautifully articulated this collective feeling that many of us have about uncertainty and the beauty of an uncertainty and what a thrill it is in this moment in time.

I am so excited to have you both on in this moment. In particular, there's been a real vibe shift here with Kamala Harris entering the race, and Rebecca, you wrote this incredible article that I felt so beautifully articulated this collective feeling that many of us have about uncertainty and the beauty of an uncertainty and what a thrill it is in this moment in time.

Yeah, I mean, I'm grateful for the uncertainty, and that's a hard thing to say because we live in a scary time.

Yeah, I mean, I'm grateful for the uncertainty, and that's a hard thing to say because we live in a scary time.

There's a lot to be terrified about.

There's a lot to be terrified about.

There are a lot of horrible things happening around us, and in the context of that fear, we often reach for sure things, but sure things often look like the past. And when we want to make history this campaign, we've never done this before. We've never we've never had a campaign like this in this amount of time and these circumstances. We have a black woman running for the presidency.

There are a lot of horrible things happening around us, and in the context of that fear, we often reach for sure things, but sure things often look like the past. And when we want to make history this campaign, we've never done this before. We've never we've never had a campaign like this in this amount of time and these circumstances. We have a black woman running for the presidency.

We don't have a model for how we do this.

We don't have a model for how we do this.

On this schedule, at this scale, with so much on the line, and that is terrifying. And many of us, in political terms, reached for things that make us feel safe, polls that tell us that we're going to win, or even polls that tell us we're going to lose, because then at least we can be prepared and we're not going to be surprised and shaken. But I actually think that right now, the anxiety, the fear around this risk and this exciting moment is the exhilarating motivation we need because it is appropriate to this moment and the stakes and what we're looking at, and what it's going to do is draw us into action, which is the only way to move forward through the next eighty three days and beyond is to let that uncertainty remind us that we have to act and engage.

On this schedule, at this scale, with so much on the line, and that is terrifying. And many of us, in political terms, reached for things that make us feel safe, polls that tell us that we're going to win, or even polls that tell us we're going to lose, because then at least we can be prepared and we're not going to be surprised and shaken. But I actually think that right now, the anxiety, the fear around this risk and this exciting moment is the exhilarating motivation we need because it is appropriate to this moment and the stakes and what we're looking at, and what it's going to do is draw us into action, which is the only way to move forward through the next eighty three days and beyond is to let that uncertainty remind us that we have to act and engage.

You brought up You brought up the polls, and I think so many of us go to the polls and are you know, watching them obsessively?

You brought up You brought up the polls, and I think so many of us go to the polls and are you know, watching them obsessively?

Maybe I'm just referring.

Maybe I'm just referring.

To myself, but why are the polls so dangerous to be watching?

To myself, but why are the polls so dangerous to be watching?

Why should we not be put hanging at all on that?

Why should we not be put hanging at all on that?

I mean, have any of you ever been called for a poll? None of us picks up, None of us picks up the phone. For Tim Walls missed the VP's phone call because he didn't recognize her phone nothing. So that tells you all you need to know about who's being polled. It's our Grammys and our aunties, and while they matter, they are reliable voters. But this election is about who is going to be newly engaged and newly excited and those of us, you know, and those folks are folks who are glued to their phones and who are just not going to pick up for anybody that they don't know.

I mean, have any of you ever been called for a poll? None of us picks up, None of us picks up the phone. For Tim Walls missed the VP's phone call because he didn't recognize her phone nothing. So that tells you all you need to know about who's being polled. It's our Grammys and our aunties, and while they matter, they are reliable voters. But this election is about who is going to be newly engaged and newly excited and those of us, you know, and those folks are folks who are glued to their phones and who are just not going to pick up for anybody that they don't know.

Right right, Brittany, you talk so much about the importance of faith in moments like these the importance that faith has had in historical events and organization and social movements. How does faith plan to this moment right now?

Right right, Brittany, you talk so much about the importance of faith in moments like these the importance that faith has had in historical events and organization and social movements. How does faith plan to this moment right now?

Yeah, you know, faith is a tricky term because most times people think that we're trying to, you know, draw them into the cult of organized religion.

Yeah, you know, faith is a tricky term because most times people think that we're trying to, you know, draw them into the cult of organized religion.

But we just why it brought you all here, were the hat, a little kool aid, and we'll be on our way, correct, you know, And look we're going to leave the culting to the to the Trump camp.

But we just why it brought you all here, were the hat, a little kool aid, and we'll be on our way, correct, you know, And look we're going to leave the culting to the to the Trump camp.

Ultimately, faith is not just a religious project. It's a secular project, and it simply means that we have to believe in things that we have not seen before in order to bring them about. Faith is the distance between what we can prove and what we.

Ultimately, faith is not just a religious project. It's a secular project, and it simply means that we have to believe in things that we have not seen before in order to bring them about. Faith is the distance between what we can prove and what we.

Think is possible.

Think is possible.

And sometimes we struggle to have faith because we don't want to be wrong and we don't want to be made a full of We don't want to have to risk something because our politics is made a full of us a lot. But I tend to think that, you know, it's just like falling in love. Everybody, somebody's full as the Franklin famously so, and so I want to be a fool for the side of saving democracy, for the side of justice and righteousness, for the side of the people getting to participate in their politics, for women having a say about what happens to their bodies, for trans folks getting the care that they need, and for all the elders in my life actually having health care and the things that they need to live well and thrive even into old age.

And sometimes we struggle to have faith because we don't want to be wrong and we don't want to be made a full of We don't want to have to risk something because our politics is made a full of us a lot. But I tend to think that, you know, it's just like falling in love. Everybody, somebody's full as the Franklin famously so, and so I want to be a fool for the side of saving democracy, for the side of justice and righteousness, for the side of the people getting to participate in their politics, for women having a say about what happens to their bodies, for trans folks getting the care that they need, and for all the elders in my life actually having health care and the things that they need to live well and thrive even into old age.

Yow, we know what happened in twenty sixteen.

Yow, we know what happened in twenty sixteen.

If Kamala Harris becomes president, she would be the first female president, she'd be the first Black female president, She'd be the first South Asian person to be president.

If Kamala Harris becomes president, she would be the first female president, she'd be the first Black female president, She'd be the first South Asian person to be president.

This is obviously something.

This is obviously something.

To be celebrated and incredibly meaningful for so many reasons. But at the same time, how should we be talking about this, how much should the campaign be leaning into this, and how how much might it undermine how qualified she is as just being the right person for the job right now?

To be celebrated and incredibly meaningful for so many reasons. But at the same time, how should we be talking about this, how much should the campaign be leaning into this, and how how much might it undermine how qualified she is as just being the right person for the job right now?

I think it's a really tricky balance because on the one hand, you don't want to fixate on these firsts and the pure identity changes and representative changes, because there has to be substance along with that too. Right we could be talking about Nikki Haley and have some of the same first and we'd be feeling very differently about you mention right to that. So I want to say that that just talking about the representative firsts isn't enough. And yet we cannot behave in this country as though we are a nation that has ever previously managed to elect a woman in two hundred and fifty years, right, So we can't trick ourselves either into thinking that there is not a lot happening in this campaign and on these stages that we do not have models for that we need to turn to different degrees of faith, that we need to sit in our anxiety about whether we as a country can be become better right, and become different and do things differently, and imagine leadership that doesn't look like the leadership we've had in the past. So it would be silly to pretend that those things don't come into it, and I think deeply dishonest about who we are as a country and about the possibility of who we could become as a country.

I think it's a really tricky balance because on the one hand, you don't want to fixate on these firsts and the pure identity changes and representative changes, because there has to be substance along with that too. Right we could be talking about Nikki Haley and have some of the same first and we'd be feeling very differently about you mention right to that. So I want to say that that just talking about the representative firsts isn't enough. And yet we cannot behave in this country as though we are a nation that has ever previously managed to elect a woman in two hundred and fifty years, right, So we can't trick ourselves either into thinking that there is not a lot happening in this campaign and on these stages that we do not have models for that we need to turn to different degrees of faith, that we need to sit in our anxiety about whether we as a country can be become better right, and become different and do things differently, and imagine leadership that doesn't look like the leadership we've had in the past. So it would be silly to pretend that those things don't come into it, and I think deeply dishonest about who we are as a country and about the possibility of who we could become as a country.

But at the same time, the thing you got to acknowledge when you acknowledge that she's first is also all of the unreasonable expectations that come with being first. It is the moment that a corporation decides they're going to let a woman actually run it after they've almost sunk it. You know, we call those glass clip assignments, or it's that moment that so many black women have experienced many times I've experienced where you look up and you're the only black person in the room, the only black woman in the room, and so the stakes are incredibly high, and there is no margin for error. And we've got to remember, how do we balance the fact that she is first, but she doesn't get to be the exception, right, she is first, what she is going to have to respond to protesters? She is first, but she is going to have to be accountable for policy and how it actually shapes people's lives. She is first, and at the same time, people are going to expect her to be Jesus, because they always expect black women to be Jesus.

But at the same time, the thing you got to acknowledge when you acknowledge that she's first is also all of the unreasonable expectations that come with being first. It is the moment that a corporation decides they're going to let a woman actually run it after they've almost sunk it. You know, we call those glass clip assignments, or it's that moment that so many black women have experienced many times I've experienced where you look up and you're the only black person in the room, the only black woman in the room, and so the stakes are incredibly high, and there is no margin for error. And we've got to remember, how do we balance the fact that she is first, but she doesn't get to be the exception, right, she is first, what she is going to have to respond to protesters? She is first, but she is going to have to be accountable for policy and how it actually shapes people's lives. She is first, and at the same time, people are going to expect her to be Jesus, because they always expect black women to be Jesus.

You have both written extensively about using the power of anger and using the power of rage. Female politicians are not given any grace to have anger or rage. Is there any reason why they should give a flying about that?

You have both written extensively about using the power of anger and using the power of rage. Female politicians are not given any grace to have anger or rage. Is there any reason why they should give a flying about that?

I mean, you know, look, my camp is, you know, lean into that shit like it'll know. I have famously said that rage is a superpower because we live in a country that always does things to induce women's anger, to induce Black women's anger, and then it gas lights us and tells us that we're actually irrational because we're angry at a country that says we don't have control over our bodies, at a country that is disrespecting cat ladies, you know, you know, in a country where women say brilliant things and meetings all the time and no one hears it until the dude in the room says the same thing. And so of course we're mad, but we're also geniuses. We're also dope.

I mean, you know, look, my camp is, you know, lean into that shit like it'll know. I have famously said that rage is a superpower because we live in a country that always does things to induce women's anger, to induce Black women's anger, and then it gas lights us and tells us that we're actually irrational because we're angry at a country that says we don't have control over our bodies, at a country that is disrespecting cat ladies, you know, you know, in a country where women say brilliant things and meetings all the time and no one hears it until the dude in the room says the same thing. And so of course we're mad, but we're also geniuses. We're also dope.

We're also joyful.

We're also joyful.

These things are not mutually exclusive.

These things are not mutually exclusive.

And I want to pick up on that joyful thing, which is one of the things that Brittany and I both talked about, is that anger and rage can have a lot of different qualities. It can be destructive, it can be divisive, but expressed anger, especially at injustice and power, imbalance and anger on behalf of making the world better, can also bring people together in communion. And what we see right now, the vibe shift that you talked about, there is this crucial thing happening, which is that there is no question that there is a kind of fear at what's at stake motivating so many people, not only on the campaign trail, but the people who are organizing these calls, and yet that shared anger is bringing people together.

And I want to pick up on that joyful thing, which is one of the things that Brittany and I both talked about, is that anger and rage can have a lot of different qualities. It can be destructive, it can be divisive, but expressed anger, especially at injustice and power, imbalance and anger on behalf of making the world better, can also bring people together in communion. And what we see right now, the vibe shift that you talked about, there is this crucial thing happening, which is that there is no question that there is a kind of fear at what's at stake motivating so many people, not only on the campaign trail, but the people who are organizing these calls, and yet that shared anger is bringing people together.

What is being.

What is being.

Projected by Kamala Harrison Tim Walls on that on those stages is unfettered joy, the beauty of being able, the happiness of being able to envision some future that looks different from our past.

Projected by Kamala Harrison Tim Walls on that on those stages is unfettered joy, the beauty of being able, the happiness of being able to envision some future that looks different from our past.

That's right, Rebecca.

That's right, Rebecca.

You you had a really interesting piece on masculinity and the way that it's framed on both sides, on the Democratic side and on the Republican side. Where are the contrasts that you see?

You you had a really interesting piece on masculinity and the way that it's framed on both sides, on the Democratic side and on the Republican side. Where are the contrasts that you see?

Oh, they're subtle. So it's interesting because coming out of two years of Republicans really having their clock cleaned on every reproductive rights referenda in this country, there was this thought that Donald Trump and his campaign in the Republican's more broad, they're going to stay away from abortion. They're not in a popular place on abortion. They're losing on abortion, so they weren't going to talk about that. What is fat and they didn't really at the convention. What is fascinating to me is their inability to hide their loathing for women, right, their scorn for women. So that if if you look at that production, a planned show they put on last month, you had hul Cogan who's been accused of domestic assault. You had Dana White, the head of Ultimate Fighting, also been caught doing assault. You had Donald Trump walking out to It's a man's world the right.

Oh, they're subtle. So it's interesting because coming out of two years of Republicans really having their clock cleaned on every reproductive rights referenda in this country, there was this thought that Donald Trump and his campaign in the Republican's more broad, they're going to stay away from abortion. They're not in a popular place on abortion. They're losing on abortion, so they weren't going to talk about that. What is fat and they didn't really at the convention. What is fascinating to me is their inability to hide their loathing for women, right, their scorn for women. So that if if you look at that production, a planned show they put on last month, you had hul Cogan who's been accused of domestic assault. You had Dana White, the head of Ultimate Fighting, also been caught doing assault. You had Donald Trump walking out to It's a man's world the right.

You have JD.

You have JD.

He picked JD vance right, and and these guys are trafficking not only in the historic sort of patriarchal we'd like to control reproductive bodies and you know, exert our power over women. You have the newer manness, your sort of icky your real dislike of women, like resentment of women who won't have sex with them on demand and who won't bear their babies on demand. And that's really seeping into this in a kind of new gross way that you see Donald Trump is doing interviews with Elon Musk, who is a person who said that abortion and birth control have led to the crumbling of society and things that people who don't have children shouldn't vote. And that's who Trump is doing his podcast with. And you can hear all those resentments of the minisphere and everything Jade Bance says about cat ladies and that he agrees with about the role of postman apousal women as.

He picked JD vance right, and and these guys are trafficking not only in the historic sort of patriarchal we'd like to control reproductive bodies and you know, exert our power over women. You have the newer manness, your sort of icky your real dislike of women, like resentment of women who won't have sex with them on demand and who won't bear their babies on demand. And that's really seeping into this in a kind of new gross way that you see Donald Trump is doing interviews with Elon Musk, who is a person who said that abortion and birth control have led to the crumbling of society and things that people who don't have children shouldn't vote. And that's who Trump is doing his podcast with. And you can hear all those resentments of the minisphere and everything Jade Bance says about cat ladies and that he agrees with about the role of postman apousal women as.

Being the child to write a grandma.

Being the child to write a grandma.

So that's what's happening for the Republicans that and then on the left, in part because you have Kamala Harris leading the ticket, what you've seen is a lot of guys coming out in really robust ways in support of her, talking folsomely about reproductive healthcare and access, talking about I have been out there listening to Doug m Hoff talk about pap smears. Tim Wall's past, you know, made period products available in school bathrooms, He signed abortion protections into law in Minnesota. He talks about his IVF journey. These are very traditionally masculine guys, right like football coach veterans, and yet they seem to be comfortable in a way that I have rarely seen Democratic men be comfortable before making reproductive health care and access and women's full civic participation a clarion moral call of the Democratic Party. And that is a remarkable thing that we're watching on the left.

So that's what's happening for the Republicans that and then on the left, in part because you have Kamala Harris leading the ticket, what you've seen is a lot of guys coming out in really robust ways in support of her, talking folsomely about reproductive healthcare and access, talking about I have been out there listening to Doug m Hoff talk about pap smears. Tim Wall's past, you know, made period products available in school bathrooms, He signed abortion protections into law in Minnesota. He talks about his IVF journey. These are very traditionally masculine guys, right like football coach veterans, and yet they seem to be comfortable in a way that I have rarely seen Democratic men be comfortable before making reproductive health care and access and women's full civic participation a clarion moral call of the Democratic Party. And that is a remarkable thing that we're watching on the left.

And the.

And the.

Only you know, the only thing I would add about this masculinity thing is that I think that jd. Vance is having the terrible realization that he picked the wrong daddy. He picked Trump, and really what he wanted was Tim Walls. You know, look, we have a politics that actually rewards men who have these these in battle relationships with their fathers. It was true for Barack Obama, it's true for Donald Trump. We're seeing it with Jadie Vance. And then you have Tim Wallas, who's this lovely father figure. And so it is time for Amyerica to have this reckoning around its own consistent daddy issues. And you know, this is the way we can solve the in cell problem. Who knew we just needed a high school football coach.

Only you know, the only thing I would add about this masculinity thing is that I think that jd. Vance is having the terrible realization that he picked the wrong daddy. He picked Trump, and really what he wanted was Tim Walls. You know, look, we have a politics that actually rewards men who have these these in battle relationships with their fathers. It was true for Barack Obama, it's true for Donald Trump. We're seeing it with Jadie Vance. And then you have Tim Wallas, who's this lovely father figure. And so it is time for Amyerica to have this reckoning around its own consistent daddy issues. And you know, this is the way we can solve the in cell problem. Who knew we just needed a high school football coach.

I also want to say it is so important when we talked about the firstness of Kamala Harris, and often when we talk about gender and race, we behave as though the only people who have gender and race are people who are not white men, and white men have both gender and race, and so I think it's really important that we keep the performances of all kinds of gender in mind when we speak critically about what's happening on this election stage.

I also want to say it is so important when we talked about the firstness of Kamala Harris, and often when we talk about gender and race, we behave as though the only people who have gender and race are people who are not white men, and white men have both gender and race, and so I think it's really important that we keep the performances of all kinds of gender in mind when we speak critically about what's happening on this election stage.

That's right, there are eighty more days to go until the election. How are you feeling Are you feeling optimistic? What is the proper healthy way to channel all of these feelings of anger and rage and uncertainty and positivity and joy.

That's right, there are eighty more days to go until the election. How are you feeling Are you feeling optimistic? What is the proper healthy way to channel all of these feelings of anger and rage and uncertainty and positivity and joy.

Here's the thing.

Here's the thing.

I believe in faith and hope because I come from working class Black people in the Deep South, who didn't grow up with a lot of possibility, who didn't have a lot of possibility, but who kept getting up every day and trying again. And so it's always the height of a certain kind of access and privilege when I see people assuming that we get the benefit and the indulgence of our cynicism, the indulgence of our disaffection.

I believe in faith and hope because I come from working class Black people in the Deep South, who didn't grow up with a lot of possibility, who didn't have a lot of possibility, but who kept getting up every day and trying again. And so it's always the height of a certain kind of access and privilege when I see people assuming that we get the benefit and the indulgence of our cynicism, the indulgence of our disaffection.

All it means.

All it means.

What it means to be a black person in this country is that we have to fight every day for new possibilities for ourselves. And I think that that's the lesson that America can take from having a black woman run for the presidency. That is what black people have taught this country is that if we want it, we have to fight for it. And so let's go that's where I am.

What it means to be a black person in this country is that we have to fight every day for new possibilities for ourselves. And I think that that's the lesson that America can take from having a black woman run for the presidency. That is what black people have taught this country is that if we want it, we have to fight for it. And so let's go that's where I am.

Let's go.

Let's go.

Watch show.

Watch show.

I'm gonna leave it right there.

I'm gonna leave it right there.

Yes, so let's go with a.

Yes, so let's go with a.

Morning and range for second trade.

Morning and range for second trade.

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