You're listening to Comedy Centralow.

You're listening to Comedy Centralow.

The other big cultural war story right now is being pushed by people with actual political power, and it involves transgender people. Now, wait, I know what you're thinking, scary trans people. Isn't that a throwback from like five years ago there was an outrage cycle around bathrooms. You remember that they're gonna be kidnapping our children and wearing dresses while they've pope. But even though none of that scary stuff actually happened, they've already kicked off an exciting new sequel.

The other big cultural war story right now is being pushed by people with actual political power, and it involves transgender people. Now, wait, I know what you're thinking, scary trans people. Isn't that a throwback from like five years ago there was an outrage cycle around bathrooms. You remember that they're gonna be kidnapping our children and wearing dresses while they've pope. But even though none of that scary stuff actually happened, they've already kicked off an exciting new sequel.

It has become a new front in the culture war. Republicans across the country are pushing to ban transgender students and often specifically trans girls and women from competing in school sports and men.

It has become a new front in the culture war. Republicans across the country are pushing to ban transgender students and often specifically trans girls and women from competing in school sports and men.

Everything to me to be able to run, you know, asigenital would identify and to run as who I know I am.

Everything to me to be able to run, you know, asigenital would identify and to run as who I know I am.

I really just found who I am as a person through sports.

I really just found who I am as a person through sports.

More than twenty five states across the country now considering anti trans policies in school sports. Three of those states have already signed them into law. Republicans pushing for the ban have been unable to appoint to any evidence of a problem.

More than twenty five states across the country now considering anti trans policies in school sports. Three of those states have already signed them into law. Republicans pushing for the ban have been unable to appoint to any evidence of a problem.

Will you cite any examples where a young woman was denied a scholarship opportunity or a title here in Arizona because they were competing against the trans athlete who outperformed them.

Will you cite any examples where a young woman was denied a scholarship opportunity or a title here in Arizona because they were competing against the trans athlete who outperformed them.

I can't at this point.

I can't at this point.

So the answer was now, at this point, no.

So the answer was now, at this point, no.

But it's only a matter of time.

But it's only a matter of time.

In my opinion, it's only a matter of time. You Know what I love about Republicans is that when it comes to major issues with tons of evidence, like climate change or coronavirus or gun violence, they're like, huh, let's wait until we see more evidence. But now there's an issue that even exists, and they're like, we don't got time for evidence. There's a plastic trophy at steak.

In my opinion, it's only a matter of time. You Know what I love about Republicans is that when it comes to major issues with tons of evidence, like climate change or coronavirus or gun violence, they're like, huh, let's wait until we see more evidence. But now there's an issue that even exists, and they're like, we don't got time for evidence. There's a plastic trophy at steak.

Now.

Now.

The one thing that people making these laws always point to is a single story from Connecticut a few years ago. That's not evidence that trans kids are stealing opportunities from everyone else. Unfeki's kids have taken away more slots on sports teams than trans kids. Honestly, I think conservatives are missing the entire point of youth sports in the first place, because it's not rarely about the tiny minority of kids who will go on to get scholarships and perform at an elite level. It's not about that. It's about kids achieving their personal best, developing good habits and self esteem, and learning to bully the chess team. And culture warriors say these laws about trans kids and sports are just about being fair to the other children, But the truth is it's not stopping there.

The one thing that people making these laws always point to is a single story from Connecticut a few years ago. That's not evidence that trans kids are stealing opportunities from everyone else. Unfeki's kids have taken away more slots on sports teams than trans kids. Honestly, I think conservatives are missing the entire point of youth sports in the first place, because it's not rarely about the tiny minority of kids who will go on to get scholarships and perform at an elite level. It's not about that. It's about kids achieving their personal best, developing good habits and self esteem, and learning to bully the chess team. And culture warriors say these laws about trans kids and sports are just about being fair to the other children, But the truth is it's not stopping there.

In the state of Arkansas, the state just became the first to ban gender affirming medical care for transgender kids, even with parental consent.

In the state of Arkansas, the state just became the first to ban gender affirming medical care for transgender kids, even with parental consent.

In Alabama, there's a bill that would make it a felony, punishable by up to ten years in prison, for a doctor to prescribe gender affirming medication for trans people under age eighteen.

In Alabama, there's a bill that would make it a felony, punishable by up to ten years in prison, for a doctor to prescribe gender affirming medication for trans people under age eighteen.

A similar measure before North Carolina's General Assembly as some lawmakers look to ban gender confirming treatments for people under twenty one. The bill would prevent doctors from providing gender confirming hormone treatment, puberty of blockers, or surgery.

A similar measure before North Carolina's General Assembly as some lawmakers look to ban gender confirming treatments for people under twenty one. The bill would prevent doctors from providing gender confirming hormone treatment, puberty of blockers, or surgery.

Senate Bill five fourteen would also compel state employees to notify parents if their child displays quote gender non conformity.

Senate Bill five fourteen would also compel state employees to notify parents if their child displays quote gender non conformity.

No, man, you guys are playing, So North Carolina is going to make its school employees snitch on kids anytime that they don't quote conform to their agenda. What does that even mean? Conforming to your Like I caught up late with the other boys in school. So what you're telling me that if I was in the system today, my gym teacher would be on the phone with my mom. Hello missus. Noah, yeah, no, we need to talk the way Trav is throwing a ball. No no, no, no, no more like Tracy no I yeah no, I have just nitch short about this. Guys. This is not just transphobic, it's also sexist and everything else. Right because these Republicans act, they act like all they care about is the health and well being of the kids. But it kind of gives the game away when they start adding on stuff that's basically just and don't play with dolls, or we'll tell your mom. And look, I'm not a doctor, as I found out when I try to take out my cousin's appendix riping cohost ninety. But these Republican lawmakers are also not doctors, and people who are doctors see things very differently.

No, man, you guys are playing, So North Carolina is going to make its school employees snitch on kids anytime that they don't quote conform to their agenda. What does that even mean? Conforming to your Like I caught up late with the other boys in school. So what you're telling me that if I was in the system today, my gym teacher would be on the phone with my mom. Hello missus. Noah, yeah, no, we need to talk the way Trav is throwing a ball. No no, no, no, no more like Tracy no I yeah no, I have just nitch short about this. Guys. This is not just transphobic, it's also sexist and everything else. Right because these Republicans act, they act like all they care about is the health and well being of the kids. But it kind of gives the game away when they start adding on stuff that's basically just and don't play with dolls, or we'll tell your mom. And look, I'm not a doctor, as I found out when I try to take out my cousin's appendix riping cohost ninety. But these Republican lawmakers are also not doctors, and people who are doctors see things very differently.

Major medical organizations such as the American Medical Association and the American Academy of Pediatrics oppose the bell.

Major medical organizations such as the American Medical Association and the American Academy of Pediatrics oppose the bell.

With alarm and dismay pediatricians have watched bills through state legislatures across the country.

With alarm and dismay pediatricians have watched bills through state legislatures across the country.

It threatens the health and well being of trans gender youth. Young people when they reach a certain age, if they have gender dysphoria, which means that they experience mental duress because they are transgender, might not want to go through puberty, and so their doctors might presure them puberty blockers so that they don't have to go through puberty and can make a decision when they're older about whether or not they want to medically transition.

It threatens the health and well being of trans gender youth. Young people when they reach a certain age, if they have gender dysphoria, which means that they experience mental duress because they are transgender, might not want to go through puberty, and so their doctors might presure them puberty blockers so that they don't have to go through puberty and can make a decision when they're older about whether or not they want to medically transition.

Me turning into a man is just probably the most horrifying thing ever I could ever think of in the farthest riches of my mind. Is me not going on the hormone blockers anymore. The hormone blockers are like my life saver.

Me turning into a man is just probably the most horrifying thing ever I could ever think of in the farthest riches of my mind. Is me not going on the hormone blockers anymore. The hormone blockers are like my life saver.

So look, medical professionals and trans people themselves say that treating kids early can be extremely beneficial, Which makes you wonder what's really behind all of these laws. If you ask me, it's hates. Yeah, I love These people are angry because trans people don't conform to a neat idea of gender, and as humans, we like things when they are neat and organize the way we want that's why people got so mad when they said Pluto wasn't a planet. Well, if it's not a planet, then what is it. Well, actually, it's a rocky Kuiper Belt body that straddles the line between ah kill you. But as scared as some people might be by the idea of a transperson, it is nothing compared to how scared trans kids are dealing with problems that they don't always understand in a world that oftentimes does not accept them. So if these states are going to be passing laws to help anyone feel safer, it should be there. My guest tonight is a writer, director, and producer of the new FX series Pose.

So look, medical professionals and trans people themselves say that treating kids early can be extremely beneficial, Which makes you wonder what's really behind all of these laws. If you ask me, it's hates. Yeah, I love These people are angry because trans people don't conform to a neat idea of gender, and as humans, we like things when they are neat and organize the way we want that's why people got so mad when they said Pluto wasn't a planet. Well, if it's not a planet, then what is it. Well, actually, it's a rocky Kuiper Belt body that straddles the line between ah kill you. But as scared as some people might be by the idea of a transperson, it is nothing compared to how scared trans kids are dealing with problems that they don't always understand in a world that oftentimes does not accept them. So if these states are going to be passing laws to help anyone feel safer, it should be there. My guest tonight is a writer, director, and producer of the new FX series Pose.

Please welcome Janet Mark, Welcome back to the show.

Please welcome Janet Mark, Welcome back to the show.

Thanks for having me that.

Thanks for having me that.

This is a really exciting reason to have you back as well. The new show Posed, which is going to be on FX, is a show that is first in many ways. I mean, I know why I'm excited, But what would you say is the biggest reason you're excited about Pose?

This is a really exciting reason to have you back as well. The new show Posed, which is going to be on FX, is a show that is first in many ways. I mean, I know why I'm excited, But what would you say is the biggest reason you're excited about Pose?

I got a job, I like, yeah, basically, well, you know, Ryan Murphy created it, proleptic showrunner shows like Glee, Nip Tuck, of course, the people versus O. J. Simpson when a lot of Emmy's and all the trophies, and so when he invited me to Hollywood to have a meeting with him to talk about this show, I was excited by the fact that it would be the first of its kind to talk about the New York City ballroom scene, which a lot of people have known since Paris is Burning, but to also center characters and people who have never been centered before, trans woman of color.

I got a job, I like, yeah, basically, well, you know, Ryan Murphy created it, proleptic showrunner shows like Glee, Nip Tuck, of course, the people versus O. J. Simpson when a lot of Emmy's and all the trophies, and so when he invited me to Hollywood to have a meeting with him to talk about this show, I was excited by the fact that it would be the first of its kind to talk about the New York City ballroom scene, which a lot of people have known since Paris is Burning, but to also center characters and people who have never been centered before, trans woman of color.

Right, And that's what's really fascinating about the story is that you have a show that is set in the eighties, but it's showing you a story in the eighties that many people maybe didn't know exist. So many people didn't exist but just didn't think about. And what I found fascinating about watching pieces of the episodes was was that a lot of people will say about transgender people now that where did this come from? This is a new thing. This new thing is if it's like a trend, but you go, no, trans people are as old as time. Was it really important for you to be able to tell these stories as authentically as possible in the eighties?

Right, And that's what's really fascinating about the story is that you have a show that is set in the eighties, but it's showing you a story in the eighties that many people maybe didn't know exist. So many people didn't exist but just didn't think about. And what I found fascinating about watching pieces of the episodes was was that a lot of people will say about transgender people now that where did this come from? This is a new thing. This new thing is if it's like a trend, but you go, no, trans people are as old as time. Was it really important for you to be able to tell these stories as authentically as possible in the eighties?

Yeah, I think that there is something about the fact that when you look to the past, you can learn a lot about your present. For me, I saw that you know, HIV AIDS, poverty, harassment, and violence are things that you know they were dealing with in eighty seven as well as today. And so knowing that twenty six trans people were murdered in the United States last year, almost all of them women of color, I thought it was important that we memorialize the people who who we've learned so much from, the people who contributed so much to our movement, that people who have given me access to be able to be, you know, the first trans woman of color to be hired in a Hollywood writer's room, the first to write and direct a television series, and to be on a television series, and to share it with five black and brown trans women of color who are the stars in the center of our show.

Yeah, I think that there is something about the fact that when you look to the past, you can learn a lot about your present. For me, I saw that you know, HIV AIDS, poverty, harassment, and violence are things that you know they were dealing with in eighty seven as well as today. And so knowing that twenty six trans people were murdered in the United States last year, almost all of them women of color, I thought it was important that we memorialize the people who who we've learned so much from, the people who contributed so much to our movement, that people who have given me access to be able to be, you know, the first trans woman of color to be hired in a Hollywood writer's room, the first to write and direct a television series, and to be on a television series, and to share it with five black and brown trans women of color who are the stars in the center of our show.

It's it's a pioneering show for so many reasons. You know, you have five trans women of color who are centered in the story. The word censered is so important in this because, you know, I read a story on the Hollywood Reporter about how they did a study on Latino characters on TV and they found that half of them were always represented as criminals. And when you look at stories of the transgender community, it's always a fringe element, you know, in so many stories. You know, it's always going to be sex worker, it's going to be something that seems like it's not in the mainstream. Was it important for you to center these people and show the spectrum of life that you can be living.

It's it's a pioneering show for so many reasons. You know, you have five trans women of color who are centered in the story. The word censered is so important in this because, you know, I read a story on the Hollywood Reporter about how they did a study on Latino characters on TV and they found that half of them were always represented as criminals. And when you look at stories of the transgender community, it's always a fringe element, you know, in so many stories. You know, it's always going to be sex worker, it's going to be something that seems like it's not in the mainstream. Was it important for you to center these people and show the spectrum of life that you can be living.

Yeah, I think so often too.

Yeah, I think so often too.

We're often always insist gender stories, non trans people stories as a sidekicks, as someone who's a martyr who dies in order to teach sis person about what it means to be real and authentic. And in our show, we center that experience and we don't show the origin stories of our characters. We show them as they're fully embodied, just trans people living in New York City.

We're often always insist gender stories, non trans people stories as a sidekicks, as someone who's a martyr who dies in order to teach sis person about what it means to be real and authentic. And in our show, we center that experience and we don't show the origin stories of our characters. We show them as they're fully embodied, just trans people living in New York City.

And with that you have diversity.

And with that you have diversity.

You show that trans folk are not a monolith, that we don't have the same dreams and desires that we read and shade one another, that we can be villains as well as you know, protagonists, right. And I think that that for me, as someone who loved television, who grew up as TV being a part of like my babysitter in a single parent household, it showed me that I can be centered and that I deserve to be seen and heard, and that at the end of the day, the show really is an unconventional family drama.

You show that trans folk are not a monolith, that we don't have the same dreams and desires that we read and shade one another, that we can be villains as well as you know, protagonists, right. And I think that that for me, as someone who loved television, who grew up as TV being a part of like my babysitter in a single parent household, it showed me that I can be centered and that I deserve to be seen and heard, and that at the end of the day, the show really is an unconventional family drama.

Right, And we see so many stories of people watching TV shows or movies and for the first time seeing themselves on screen. You know, you saw that with Ava Duvina's wrinkling time, you saw that with Black Panther. You see it with people going I've never ever thought of how I've never seen myself. You know. I remember going to watch Wonder Woman with friends and my female friends were like, they were crying during the fight scene because They're like, I've never seen women just kicking men's asses, which is really amazing. And you take that for granted, you genuinely do. When you were growing up watching TV, were there any characters or any shows that in some way maybe did make you feel like, you know, there was something that you could aspire to, and was this something that that really touched you?

Right, And we see so many stories of people watching TV shows or movies and for the first time seeing themselves on screen. You know, you saw that with Ava Duvina's wrinkling time, you saw that with Black Panther. You see it with people going I've never ever thought of how I've never seen myself. You know. I remember going to watch Wonder Woman with friends and my female friends were like, they were crying during the fight scene because They're like, I've never seen women just kicking men's asses, which is really amazing. And you take that for granted, you genuinely do. When you were growing up watching TV, were there any characters or any shows that in some way maybe did make you feel like, you know, there was something that you could aspire to, and was this something that that really touched you?

Felicity, she really was the reason why I moved to New York City went to YU was literally because I saw this white girl with curly hair that was virus and love Lauren and wanted to be with you know, Ben, That's all I wanted.

Felicity, she really was the reason why I moved to New York City went to YU was literally because I saw this white girl with curly hair that was virus and love Lauren and wanted to be with you know, Ben, That's all I wanted.

Right, And so I haven't seen.

Right, And so I haven't seen.

Ben, and now you're in the fist way, you're not writing, and I think, do you do you feel that gravity of putting people on screen that identify people out there who maybe have never seen themselves on screen in any way, shape or form.

Ben, and now you're in the fist way, you're not writing, and I think, do you do you feel that gravity of putting people on screen that identify people out there who maybe have never seen themselves on screen in any way, shape or form.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The fact that we have love stories on our show, the fact that there we are not just nearly points of trauma, right, because so often trans bodies are usually dead in inactive bodies, and so here we have five women who have different dreams, who have love, who want desire, who want to be desired, who are funny, who are villains, who are all of these different things, and so in that when you center these people on the show, you show people that number one, it's not scary that they're not that they're not horrible people, that they're not freak shows that instead they're humans that you care about. In TV being such an intimate platform, you know this people invite into their home every night. You know, they get to know you and they love you and they're invested. And I hope that it doesn't only educate and inspire and entertain, but it also moves people to care and hopefully do something.

The fact that we have love stories on our show, the fact that there we are not just nearly points of trauma, right, because so often trans bodies are usually dead in inactive bodies, and so here we have five women who have different dreams, who have love, who want desire, who want to be desired, who are funny, who are villains, who are all of these different things, and so in that when you center these people on the show, you show people that number one, it's not scary that they're not that they're not horrible people, that they're not freak shows that instead they're humans that you care about. In TV being such an intimate platform, you know this people invite into their home every night. You know, they get to know you and they love you and they're invested. And I hope that it doesn't only educate and inspire and entertain, but it also moves people to care and hopefully do something.

Something is going to do all of those things. Thank you so much for being able.

Something is going to do all of those things. Thank you so much for being able.

To show again one days of nine.

To show again one days of nine.

Pm on effect Channath.

Pm on effect Channath.

Knock everybody, We'll be right back. So what is it that scares so many people about transgender communities? And what's it like to live as the focus of that fear. Jessica Williams finds out.

Knock everybody, We'll be right back. So what is it that scares so many people about transgender communities? And what's it like to live as the focus of that fear. Jessica Williams finds out.

Iowa's most famous for its corn fields, butter sculptures and butter sculptures of corn fields until last summer, when transgender woman Meghan Taylor tried to check in to the Drury In in the city of Des Moines. We sat down with Taylor herself for an exclusive.

Iowa's most famous for its corn fields, butter sculptures and butter sculptures of corn fields until last summer, when transgender woman Meghan Taylor tried to check in to the Drury In in the city of Des Moines. We sat down with Taylor herself for an exclusive.

Tell all I could tell when I checked in to the hotel that it was.

Tell all I could tell when I checked in to the hotel that it was.

It was I got this real, Megan Taylor. It was July twelfth, twenty fifteen. You presented your ID to the hotel manager.

It was I got this real, Megan Taylor. It was July twelfth, twenty fifteen. You presented your ID to the hotel manager.

I have a reservation, but she was on to you.

I have a reservation, but she was on to you.

Fearing for her life, she took immediate action.

Fearing for her life, she took immediate action.

I have to me, that's a little unusual, that is checking into the hotel, and if they're dressed as a woman, but it's a man's driver's license.

I have to me, that's a little unusual, that is checking into the hotel, and if they're dressed as a woman, but it's a man's driver's license.

And that's when the cops came and all hell broke loose. But let's rewind here what triggered the cops to respond?

And that's when the cops came and all hell broke loose. But let's rewind here what triggered the cops to respond?

You pull out a.

You pull out a.

Gun and then the cops come and you're arrested, and none of that happened.

Gun and then the cops come and you're arrested, and none of that happened.

What did you pull out a knife?

What did you pull out a knife?

Now?

Now?

What did you do?

What did you do?

Drugs? Nothing of the story.

Drugs? Nothing of the story.

Well, then, why the hell were you arrested?

Well, then, why the hell were you arrested?

I got arrested but because I was a black chrance to the.

I got arrested but because I was a black chrance to the.

Women, specifically, cops held her because she didn't have a prescription for her hormone pills.

Women, specifically, cops held her because she didn't have a prescription for her hormone pills.

And this is two thy and sixteen.

And this is two thy and sixteen.

What were you doing in Iowa?

What were you doing in Iowa?

I was there going to a funeral?

I was there going to a funeral?

You were there for a funeral?

You were there for a funeral?

Yeah?

Yeah?

And did you get to attendant?

And did you get to attendant?

I didn't get to make the funeral at all?

I didn't get to make the funeral at all?

How long were you in jail?

How long were you in jail?

Four?

Four?

I was in jail for eight days. I'm sorry, it's terrible. Take your time, ugh.

I was in jail for eight days. I'm sorry, it's terrible. Take your time, ugh.

I thought it was tough being a black woman, but compared to a black transgender woman, I might as well be a white frat dude.

I thought it was tough being a black woman, but compared to a black transgender woman, I might as well be a white frat dude.

To the Dave Matthews concert.

To the Dave Matthews concert.

Transgender women get arrested all the time, especially black transgender women, just by walking down the street or anything, and by.

Transgender women get arrested all the time, especially black transgender women, just by walking down the street or anything, and by.

Anything she means literally anything because of discrimination and profiling. At least forty seven percent of black trans people will have, at some point in their lives been incarcerated. Let's underline bold and set fire to that graphic because it's forty seven percent. You think there'd be los to correct this, but instead, this year alone, state legislatures have introduced one hundred and seventy five anti trans bills. Many make it legal to discriminate based solely on religious beliefs.

Anything she means literally anything because of discrimination and profiling. At least forty seven percent of black trans people will have, at some point in their lives been incarcerated. Let's underline bold and set fire to that graphic because it's forty seven percent. You think there'd be los to correct this, but instead, this year alone, state legislatures have introduced one hundred and seventy five anti trans bills. Many make it legal to discriminate based solely on religious beliefs.

And then you have these bathroom bills.

And then you have these bathroom bills.

It in fine and imprisoned transgender people who use public restrooms that don't match the gender on their birth certificate.

It in fine and imprisoned transgender people who use public restrooms that don't match the gender on their birth certificate.

That's what's really triggering this trans panic.

That's what's really triggering this trans panic.

Just listen to Colorado representative and Elmer Fudd lookalike Gordon Kling and Schmidt.

Just listen to Colorado representative and Elmer Fudd lookalike Gordon Kling and Schmidt.

Should we fear the transgender community?

Should we fear the transgender community?

Well, they not only want to be confused about their own identity, but they want the rest of us to be confused with them. Now they want the government to join them in that pretense. They're making us into liars.

Well, they not only want to be confused about their own identity, but they want the rest of us to be confused with them. Now they want the government to join them in that pretense. They're making us into liars.

Wow, okay, I met with these so called liars to find out what their evil intentions are.

Wow, okay, I met with these so called liars to find out what their evil intentions are.

There's a notion that trans people are perpetrators in some way that we're sneaking and trying to trick you for the purposes of having sex with you.

There's a notion that trans people are perpetrators in some way that we're sneaking and trying to trick you for the purposes of having sex with you.

And that's not the case at all.

And that's not the case at all.

People just want to see male and female to fit in one of those two boxes.

People just want to see male and female to fit in one of those two boxes.

And if it doesn't, it makes people uncomfortable and they're surely not a choice.

And if it doesn't, it makes people uncomfortable and they're surely not a choice.

That's all you need to know.

That's all you need to know.

Well not according to Klingenschmid, who thinks that we're all going to get attacked in the bathroom.

Well not according to Klingenschmid, who thinks that we're all going to get attacked in the bathroom.

A man can go into a ladies room and assault you and your little girl.

A man can go into a ladies room and assault you and your little girl.

Especially in our most important bathrooms.

Especially in our most important bathrooms.

Next time, ladies, you go out to Olive Gordon, watch out who's going to be in the bathroom.

Next time, ladies, you go out to Olive Gordon, watch out who's going to be in the bathroom.

There's no reported incidences of any trans person ever raping or assaulting anyone in any bathroom ever.

There's no reported incidences of any trans person ever raping or assaulting anyone in any bathroom ever.

If anything, Transpiper are the ones getting assaulted.

If anything, Transpiper are the ones getting assaulted.

These people are up against some books. There must be some small way I can help them out. Give me some offensive comments or questions, and I'll give you some good answers you can use in your day to day life.

These people are up against some books. There must be some small way I can help them out. Give me some offensive comments or questions, and I'll give you some good answers you can use in your day to day life.

Are your feet so small you.

Are your feet so small you.

Think my feet is more?

Think my feet is more?

Wow?

Wow?

Okay, that's guns of blazon on that question. I don't currently have it, so how much? How much for sex? Oh?

Okay, that's guns of blazon on that question. I don't currently have it, so how much? How much for sex? Oh?

How do you have sex? So your parents ashamed of you? What's the gender marker? Why don't you tell him that you're really a man?

How do you have sex? So your parents ashamed of you? What's the gender marker? Why don't you tell him that you're really a man?

No, but it's appropriate.

No, but it's appropriate.

You have cadaver tits.

You have cadaver tits.

Don't tell me what that is.

Don't tell me what that is.

What's your real name?

What's your real name?

Yeah?

Yeah?

I just want to know. Yeah, what's your name? Did you chuck it off?

I just want to know. Yeah, what's your name? Did you chuck it off?

The transgender community is more pressed than I could have ever imagined. So why does Gordon feel so threatened? Have you ever been attacked by a transgender person? Is why this is happening? No, have you ever had a traumatic experience with a transperson?

The transgender community is more pressed than I could have ever imagined. So why does Gordon feel so threatened? Have you ever been attacked by a transgender person? Is why this is happening? No, have you ever had a traumatic experience with a transperson?

I wouldn't call it traumatic?

I wouldn't call it traumatic?

No, I devastating?

No, I devastating?

Yeah, no I haven't.

Yeah, no I haven't.

So why does he feel this way?

So why does he feel this way?

Dressing like a woman and he's not a woman.

Dressing like a woman and he's not a woman.

Wait a second. This guy's a preacher too, and he thinks.

Wait a second. This guy's a preacher too, and he thinks.

What it's not just a psychological disorder, it's actually a demonic spirit.

What it's not just a psychological disorder, it's actually a demonic spirit.

Okay, so now they're possessed.

Okay, so now they're possessed.

Go on, I would be comfortable talking about religious freedom, but i'd have to change into my alter ego.

Go on, I would be comfortable talking about religious freedom, but i'd have to change into my alter ego.

If you're okay with that, you have to change into your alter ego?

If you're okay with that, you have to change into your alter ego?

Who are you?

Who are you?

Lady Gaga? Go ahead and change. Okay, hold up, is everybody seeing this?

Lady Gaga? Go ahead and change. Okay, hold up, is everybody seeing this?

I am actually waiting for this man to transition so that he can feel more comfortable during our interview. Oh and also, hey, heads up, I am not judging him for his personal choice until he took out his phone to judge others for their personal choices.

I am actually waiting for this man to transition so that he can feel more comfortable during our interview. Oh and also, hey, heads up, I am not judging him for his personal choice until he took out his phone to judge others for their personal choices.

And Deuteronomy twenty two to five says a woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear woman's clothing, for the Lord your God to tests anyone who does this.

And Deuteronomy twenty two to five says a woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear woman's clothing, for the Lord your God to tests anyone who does this.

I don't remember that part, but there is a part about shellfish or stoning people to death, getting tattoos.

I don't remember that part, but there is a part about shellfish or stoning people to death, getting tattoos.

But what about their sincerely held religious beliefs.

But what about their sincerely held religious beliefs.

They can go in their hat because we have separation of church and state, because we believe in our constitution.

They can go in their hat because we have separation of church and state, because we believe in our constitution.

Nevertheless, these bathroom bills are being passed and Gordon is doing everything he can to make it happen.

Nevertheless, these bathroom bills are being passed and Gordon is doing everything he can to make it happen.

Get used to the idea of having your women and children share bathrooms with cross dressing men who are going to expose themselves to you.

Get used to the idea of having your women and children share bathrooms with cross dressing men who are going to expose themselves to you.

Do you, for whatever reason, associate being transgender.

Do you, for whatever reason, associate being transgender.

With being a pervert?

With being a pervert?

I mean that is perversion. It's people who label themselves as transgender for the purpose of getting that access to violate the rights of others.

I mean that is perversion. It's people who label themselves as transgender for the purpose of getting that access to violate the rights of others.

Is it fair to say that because you're a priest that you're a pedophile, Well, of course not.

Is it fair to say that because you're a priest that you're a pedophile, Well, of course not.

Why is it?

Why is it?

Of course not? Why?

Of course not? Why?

Because some people are criminals and some people are not criminals.

Because some people are criminals and some people are not criminals.

Could you take that logic and apply that to the transgender community.

Could you take that logic and apply that to the transgender community.

They're apples and oranges.

They're apples and oranges.

By apples and oranges, do you mean apples and apples? Unfortunately a lot of people think like Gordon, So how can we end this transphobic epidemic?

By apples and oranges, do you mean apples and apples? Unfortunately a lot of people think like Gordon, So how can we end this transphobic epidemic?

Hopefully they can understand that we are striving towards becoming a more authentic version of ourselves after a lot of soul searching and a lot of thought, and sometimes a lot of trauma and tragedy.

Hopefully they can understand that we are striving towards becoming a more authentic version of ourselves after a lot of soul searching and a lot of thought, and sometimes a lot of trauma and tragedy.

Passing these bills is absolutely going to just add fuel to the fire and ignite trans panic coming soon.

Passing these bills is absolutely going to just add fuel to the fire and ignite trans panic coming soon.

They've existed since the beginning of time. They are not who people think they are.

They've existed since the beginning of time. They are not who people think they are.

Girl, You know, we need to elevate that rightly.

Girl, You know, we need to elevate that rightly.

They come out at night stop no or during the day, depending on their schedule.

They come out at night stop no or during the day, depending on their schedule.

You forgot your cut.

You forgot your cut.

They have an appetite when they're hungry. You're really gonna love this salad this summer get ready for the most boring movie ever. We're transgender people cause trans panic, even though they're just like the rest of us, Yeah, just like us.

They have an appetite when they're hungry. You're really gonna love this salad this summer get ready for the most boring movie ever. We're transgender people cause trans panic, even though they're just like the rest of us, Yeah, just like us.

Frive Month is coming to an end today, but that doesn't mean the conversations around gay and trans rights need to stop until next year. So to keep the conversation going on our end, I want to introduce Veronica Ivy. She's a transgender rights activist who is the first out trans woman to win Attract Cycling World Championship. Please welcome, Bronica Ivy.

Frive Month is coming to an end today, but that doesn't mean the conversations around gay and trans rights need to stop until next year. So to keep the conversation going on our end, I want to introduce Veronica Ivy. She's a transgender rights activist who is the first out trans woman to win Attract Cycling World Championship. Please welcome, Bronica Ivy.

Welcome to yourself a fel So.

Welcome to yourself a fel So.

I'm gonna say from the top because I've noticed this happens in every conversation every time you bring up trans rights. So if you have a discussion and you say trans people tense up, I understand why we live in a world where now there are people who are so transphobic that it makes it almost impossible for people who aren't to ask any questions, to have any conversations, to have any discourse that doesn't lump them in with transphobia. So I'm really glad that you're joining us on the show to talk about this because it feels like one of the biggest issues in America, and yet no one can seem to talk about it. So let's start with your journey. You've competed at some of the highest levels in sports, and you know, as your hoodie says, sport is a human right. That is what you believe in. Talk me through, check me through just a little bit of why you believe fighting for transgender athletes to compete in the categories they'd like to in sport is so important.

I'm gonna say from the top because I've noticed this happens in every conversation every time you bring up trans rights. So if you have a discussion and you say trans people tense up, I understand why we live in a world where now there are people who are so transphobic that it makes it almost impossible for people who aren't to ask any questions, to have any conversations, to have any discourse that doesn't lump them in with transphobia. So I'm really glad that you're joining us on the show to talk about this because it feels like one of the biggest issues in America, and yet no one can seem to talk about it. So let's start with your journey. You've competed at some of the highest levels in sports, and you know, as your hoodie says, sport is a human right. That is what you believe in. Talk me through, check me through just a little bit of why you believe fighting for transgender athletes to compete in the categories they'd like to in sport is so important.

So it's a fundamental tenet of like the Olympic movement that support is a human right. So in their Olympic Charter, in their fourth Fundamental Principle of OLYMPUSM, they say participation in sport is a human right and they mean that at the competitive level. So this issue, people like to say that it's a complicated issue, and I don't actually think it is.

So it's a fundamental tenet of like the Olympic movement that support is a human right. So in their Olympic Charter, in their fourth Fundamental Principle of OLYMPUSM, they say participation in sport is a human right and they mean that at the competitive level. So this issue, people like to say that it's a complicated issue, and I don't actually think it is.

I think it's very simple.

I think it's very simple.

It all boils down to do you actually think that trans women and intersex women are real women and are really female or not? And if you do, it's very simple, just stop policing who counts as a real woman. Because this has had history of racism built into it over the years. It's not an accident that the intersex athletes who get singled out are women of color from the global South, because who gets singled out for scrutiny is based on white women's conceptions of femininity, and that's being weaponized against trans people too.

It all boils down to do you actually think that trans women and intersex women are real women and are really female or not? And if you do, it's very simple, just stop policing who counts as a real woman. Because this has had history of racism built into it over the years. It's not an accident that the intersex athletes who get singled out are women of color from the global South, because who gets singled out for scrutiny is based on white women's conceptions of femininity, and that's being weaponized against trans people too.

So it's a fear.

So it's a fear.

Of protecting the fragile, weak cis white women from the rest of us.

Of protecting the fragile, weak cis white women from the rest of us.

So there are many.

So there are many.

Elements to what you said, which I appreciate, so let's try and break them down. One thing that confuses me personally is it seems like we have discussions about who should participate in which category and how. You know, on the face of it, it seems simple, as you say, you know, if somebody identifies as a woman, if they're transgender, they can compete against women who are born biologically and then if not, then not. But then there are many who would argue, who are not transphobes. There are many who born biologically women who will say, but you have an unnatural advantage over me, and that makes the sports unfair. How do you respond to that?

Elements to what you said, which I appreciate, so let's try and break them down. One thing that confuses me personally is it seems like we have discussions about who should participate in which category and how. You know, on the face of it, it seems simple, as you say, you know, if somebody identifies as a woman, if they're transgender, they can compete against women who are born biologically and then if not, then not. But then there are many who would argue, who are not transphobes. There are many who born biologically women who will say, but you have an unnatural advantage over me, and that makes the sports unfair. How do you respond to that?

Yeah, there's lots of ways you can respond to that.

Yeah, there's lots of ways you can respond to that.

So the first is the very language of you were born and I'm not biological somehow, like I don't think.

So the first is the very language of you were born and I'm not biological somehow, like I don't think.

I'm a cyborg.

I'm a cyborg.

So like this idea that like, oh, you're not a biological woman, Well, I am a woman.

So like this idea that like, oh, you're not a biological woman, Well, I am a woman.

That's a fact. I am female.

That's a fact. I am female.

So all my identity records, my racing license, my medical records, I'll say female, right, And I'm pretty sure I made a biological stuff. So I'm a biological female as well. So this question of do trans women have an advantage over sis women, we don't know. In fact, there's basically no published research on this question. However, there's good reason to think that there isn't. But I think it's irrelevant because we allow all kinds of competitive advantages within women's sport. So one example I love to talk about is the twenty sixteen Rio Olympic women's high jump final. First place was over six foot three, tenth place was five foot five, So a ten and a half inch hype difference between first and tenth at the Olympics in high jump, and we call that fair. So the range of body types within the female category is way way bigger than anything that could be attributed to trans women. So if there's an advantage, and I'm not saying that there is for trans women in women's sport, it's not an unfair advantage. But also we've been competing at trying to compete.

So all my identity records, my racing license, my medical records, I'll say female, right, And I'm pretty sure I made a biological stuff. So I'm a biological female as well. So this question of do trans women have an advantage over sis women, we don't know. In fact, there's basically no published research on this question. However, there's good reason to think that there isn't. But I think it's irrelevant because we allow all kinds of competitive advantages within women's sport. So one example I love to talk about is the twenty sixteen Rio Olympic women's high jump final. First place was over six foot three, tenth place was five foot five, So a ten and a half inch hype difference between first and tenth at the Olympics in high jump, and we call that fair. So the range of body types within the female category is way way bigger than anything that could be attributed to trans women. So if there's an advantage, and I'm not saying that there is for trans women in women's sport, it's not an unfair advantage. But also we've been competing at trying to compete.

At the highest level for decades.

At the highest level for decades.

We've been allowed to compete for decades, and no one has won an elite World championship, no one has won an Olympic gold medal. This Tokyo Olympics was the first time transwomen even qualified for the Olympics. So this idea that trans women are certainly going to take over women's sport is an irrational fear of trans women, which is the Dictionary definition of transphobia.

We've been allowed to compete for decades, and no one has won an elite World championship, no one has won an Olympic gold medal. This Tokyo Olympics was the first time transwomen even qualified for the Olympics. So this idea that trans women are certainly going to take over women's sport is an irrational fear of trans women, which is the Dictionary definition of transphobia.

So it's interesting that you say that, you know, because it's interesting to say that because I think if I were to push back or you know, even not even playing Devil's advocates, there are a few things that could be argued. Number One, you could argue that although the trans women who competed in the Olympics didn't dominate, she did beat a field of women who might have qualified for that position. Right. Secondly, when you talk about the height differences, I agree with this completely, but there are many who would argue that we exist in a state where a lot of the surgeries on you, a lot of the technology, just the technology is new. Transgenderism is not new. We know it throughout time, We've seen it throughout history. But there are many who would say, how do we ensure that we are creating some sort of standard. And the reason we talk to this is, you know we talk about this is it's the reason they have to regulator performance enhancing drugs. For instance, what is fair? What can you drink? What can you not drink? What can you consume? What can you not consume? Some would say if you are born that way, that's how sport has determined who goes where, And then some would say, no, who, regardless of who you are, you should be able to compete. My question then comes in from a really honestly a different place. I look at somebody like Oscar Pistorius from South Africa, right, he was the double amputee, and Oscar Pistorius actually went, well, I want to compete in the able bodied race, right, And people are like, well, do you have an advantage? Do not et cetera, et cetera, the prosthetics? But then could there not be an argument if there is no advantage in that, that then trans women should be able to compete. But in the men's races then because they'd still be able to compete in the sport.

So it's interesting that you say that, you know, because it's interesting to say that because I think if I were to push back or you know, even not even playing Devil's advocates, there are a few things that could be argued. Number One, you could argue that although the trans women who competed in the Olympics didn't dominate, she did beat a field of women who might have qualified for that position. Right. Secondly, when you talk about the height differences, I agree with this completely, but there are many who would argue that we exist in a state where a lot of the surgeries on you, a lot of the technology, just the technology is new. Transgenderism is not new. We know it throughout time, We've seen it throughout history. But there are many who would say, how do we ensure that we are creating some sort of standard. And the reason we talk to this is, you know we talk about this is it's the reason they have to regulator performance enhancing drugs. For instance, what is fair? What can you drink? What can you not drink? What can you consume? What can you not consume? Some would say if you are born that way, that's how sport has determined who goes where, And then some would say, no, who, regardless of who you are, you should be able to compete. My question then comes in from a really honestly a different place. I look at somebody like Oscar Pistorius from South Africa, right, he was the double amputee, and Oscar Pistorius actually went, well, I want to compete in the able bodied race, right, And people are like, well, do you have an advantage? Do not et cetera, et cetera, the prosthetics? But then could there not be an argument if there is no advantage in that, that then trans women should be able to compete. But in the men's races then because they'd still be able to compete in the sport.

But they're women and they're female.

But they're women and they're female.

So, like I said, this boils down to our trans women really women, Are they really female? Because if you think yes, then we belong competing with other women. So it's an extreme indignity to say I believe you're a woman except for sport, right, So you can't single out one of the most important.

So, like I said, this boils down to our trans women really women, Are they really female? Because if you think yes, then we belong competing with other women. So it's an extreme indignity to say I believe you're a woman except for sport, right, So you can't single out one of the most important.

Facets of our society. We are obsessed with.

Facets of our society. We are obsessed with.

Athletes are some of the most highly praised, highly paid people on the plant. So you can't say that, like, I believe you and I support you, but not for this one really big thing that society really cares about it right.

Athletes are some of the most highly praised, highly paid people on the plant. So you can't say that, like, I believe you and I support you, but not for this one really big thing that society really cares about it right.

And I'm saying I get confused by why we distill it down into just two things. I'll tell you why. As we learn about gender being a spectrum, as we learn that people can identify in a multitude of ways, we accept the fact that we don't have to put people into categories of man or woman. You know, that's why they say protect trans women's like otherwise, which women are you protecting? It's an argument that doesn't separate or diminish anybody, but gives more specificity to what people are saying and so when we talk about these things, I sometimes get confused by why we're trying to force the people into two again when we've been taught that there isn't a two whereas a sport like let's say boxing, for instance, in boxing, people fight across all weight categories. They don't just go men's boxing, women's boxing. They go no men heavyweight, super heavy weight, and then they'll be like middleweight, bantamweight, flyweight, featherweight. There's like guys who weigh nothing punching each other. And I mean this genuine is I've always thought to myself, it's interesting how in boxing they went, well, we don't just want to see guys fighting, we want to see guys fighting at different weights. The UFC does the same thing. They go, you're gonna fight in your weight class, which has it seems crazy, how can you break it down? And yet it's worked. And so I wonder if you've ever considered and I'm not saying it's your job, by the way, but if you've ever considered it literally.

And I'm saying I get confused by why we distill it down into just two things. I'll tell you why. As we learn about gender being a spectrum, as we learn that people can identify in a multitude of ways, we accept the fact that we don't have to put people into categories of man or woman. You know, that's why they say protect trans women's like otherwise, which women are you protecting? It's an argument that doesn't separate or diminish anybody, but gives more specificity to what people are saying and so when we talk about these things, I sometimes get confused by why we're trying to force the people into two again when we've been taught that there isn't a two whereas a sport like let's say boxing, for instance, in boxing, people fight across all weight categories. They don't just go men's boxing, women's boxing. They go no men heavyweight, super heavy weight, and then they'll be like middleweight, bantamweight, flyweight, featherweight. There's like guys who weigh nothing punching each other. And I mean this genuine is I've always thought to myself, it's interesting how in boxing they went, well, we don't just want to see guys fighting, we want to see guys fighting at different weights. The UFC does the same thing. They go, you're gonna fight in your weight class, which has it seems crazy, how can you break it down? And yet it's worked. And so I wonder if you've ever considered and I'm not saying it's your job, by the way, but if you've ever considered it literally.

Is oh, then great.

Is oh, then great.

Have you ever considered a world where it becomes more specific? Then you know, the same thing they did in the Paralympics. They they had to find a way where they classified how a single amputee could run against somebody who's partially blind or a double amputy and how do we grade that? So do you not think that we're limiting ourselves by saying men's sports women's sports when we now know that there's so many more genders.

Have you ever considered a world where it becomes more specific? Then you know, the same thing they did in the Paralympics. They they had to find a way where they classified how a single amputee could run against somebody who's partially blind or a double amputy and how do we grade that? So do you not think that we're limiting ourselves by saying men's sports women's sports when we now know that there's so many more genders.

So I'm really gonna just satisfy you right now.

So I'm really gonna just satisfy you right now.

Well, you don't know what I'm looking for, though, so you can't I do.

Well, you don't know what I'm looking for, though, so you can't I do.

I know you're looking for something other than what I'm gonna say, and that that is a very question and a very difficult question, but it's a separate question. The question we're talking about is, given how sport is currently structured, should we include trans women and intersex women in women's sport? And my answer to that is a clear yes. If you want to say, should we revisit how we structure all of sport?

I know you're looking for something other than what I'm gonna say, and that that is a very question and a very difficult question, but it's a separate question. The question we're talking about is, given how sport is currently structured, should we include trans women and intersex women in women's sport? And my answer to that is a clear yes. If you want to say, should we revisit how we structure all of sport?

I would say, yeah, we should do that.

I would say, yeah, we should do that.

But if your only reason for doing that is because you can't just accept trans women or women, that's a problem I got with you.

But if your only reason for doing that is because you can't just accept trans women or women, that's a problem I got with you.

I understand, and I'm not saying it's not with you. No, No, I hear what you're saying. No, I completely hear what you're saying. So let me ask you this. Then, you know, again, eliminating fringes, because everything on the internet becomes fringe, everything becomes a fight and an argument. If somebody comes to you in good faith and I mean genuinely good faith and they say to you, you know, Veronica, I was born a woman, raised a woman. I've suffered or lived in experienced life as a woman. This is where I am. This is where my body has gotten me to. I've grown as a woman. My body has had the testosterono estrogen that it had to get me to this point, and that's why I am here. And I feel like you may or may not have the advantage, but we don't know yet. So why can't we wait to know these things before you compete against me? How would you respond to that?

I understand, and I'm not saying it's not with you. No, No, I hear what you're saying. No, I completely hear what you're saying. So let me ask you this. Then, you know, again, eliminating fringes, because everything on the internet becomes fringe, everything becomes a fight and an argument. If somebody comes to you in good faith and I mean genuinely good faith and they say to you, you know, Veronica, I was born a woman, raised a woman. I've suffered or lived in experienced life as a woman. This is where I am. This is where my body has gotten me to. I've grown as a woman. My body has had the testosterono estrogen that it had to get me to this point, and that's why I am here. And I feel like you may or may not have the advantage, but we don't know yet. So why can't we wait to know these things before you compete against me? How would you respond to that?

Because that's not how human rights work. So the way human rights work is that the default is inclusion, and the burden of proof is on the people seeking to exclude, not the people seeking to include. So I want to share something shocking with everybody. It wasn't until five years ago that we actually studied the relationship between natural testosterone and performance, and we found that there's no relationship whatsoever between unaltered, natural anddogenous testosterone and sport performance. About zero point five percent of elite male track and field athletes at the world championship level are below the women's average of testosterone, competing with men with eighty to one hundred times as much testosterone at no competitive disadvantage, and that fact has not been picked.

Because that's not how human rights work. So the way human rights work is that the default is inclusion, and the burden of proof is on the people seeking to exclude, not the people seeking to include. So I want to share something shocking with everybody. It wasn't until five years ago that we actually studied the relationship between natural testosterone and performance, and we found that there's no relationship whatsoever between unaltered, natural anddogenous testosterone and sport performance. About zero point five percent of elite male track and field athletes at the world championship level are below the women's average of testosterone, competing with men with eighty to one hundred times as much testosterone at no competitive disadvantage, and that fact has not been picked.

Up by the broader media landscape.

Up by the broader media landscape.

So when you say I'm a woman and I have this much testosterone, well, first, there's a huge range within women, definitely into the male range, and there is no relationship between her having a competitive vantage over women with lower testosterone. So there are elite sis men with low testosterone lower than a given woman who's out competing her. So our bodies and biology is not this simple we thought it was, and it isn't. So we know that when you add testosterone to your natural levels, like doping, you tend to get bigger, stronger, faster. We also know that when you drop your testosterone levels, like trans women tend to do, you tend to get slower. But what your natural level is has no relationship to your sport performance, and we've been singling out that factor, testosterone against the scientific evidence.

So when you say I'm a woman and I have this much testosterone, well, first, there's a huge range within women, definitely into the male range, and there is no relationship between her having a competitive vantage over women with lower testosterone. So there are elite sis men with low testosterone lower than a given woman who's out competing her. So our bodies and biology is not this simple we thought it was, and it isn't. So we know that when you add testosterone to your natural levels, like doping, you tend to get bigger, stronger, faster. We also know that when you drop your testosterone levels, like trans women tend to do, you tend to get slower. But what your natural level is has no relationship to your sport performance, and we've been singling out that factor, testosterone against the scientific evidence.

But I'm a little confused, and forgive me if I'm slow to understand this. You just said the natural level doesn't give you an advantage or a disadvantage, but you said if people do have an addition or subtraction of it, then it does give you a disadvantage or an advantage.

But I'm a little confused, and forgive me if I'm slow to understand this. You just said the natural level doesn't give you an advantage or a disadvantage, but you said if people do have an addition or subtraction of it, then it does give you a disadvantage or an advantage.

Well, it affects things.

Well, it affects things.

So for example, like my body doesn't produce testosterone, and it hasn't for a decade, but I switch sports from a road cycling event to a track power event, and I switched training, and I put on twenty five pounds of muscle, and I went from being able to squat one seventy to.

So for example, like my body doesn't produce testosterone, and it hasn't for a decade, but I switch sports from a road cycling event to a track power event, and I switched training, and I put on twenty five pounds of muscle, and I went from being able to squat one seventy to.

Three seventy five.

Three seventy five.

So I don't produce a testosterone and I squat a lot and that's just because I change training. So it's not so simple as Okay, if you drop your testosterone, you will get weaker. Because if you change your training, your diet, your rest and recovery, your sport you're performing can change.

So I don't produce a testosterone and I squat a lot and that's just because I change training. So it's not so simple as Okay, if you drop your testosterone, you will get weaker. Because if you change your training, your diet, your rest and recovery, your sport you're performing can change.

Your body will change. It seems like we're always going to end up in a cul de sac because many people use it as a cudgel. I've realized to scare people. Oh, the transgenders are coming for you. Your bathroom is your sports and everything the careful what you say, but it feels like there are many discussions to be had. It feels like, as you said, you know, the research of the science, everything hasn't caught up. But I appreciate you for coming on the show and discussing this with us. Thank you so much for joining me.

Your body will change. It seems like we're always going to end up in a cul de sac because many people use it as a cudgel. I've realized to scare people. Oh, the transgenders are coming for you. Your bathroom is your sports and everything the careful what you say, but it feels like there are many discussions to be had. It feels like, as you said, you know, the research of the science, everything hasn't caught up. But I appreciate you for coming on the show and discussing this with us. Thank you so much for joining me.

Explore more shows from the Daily Show podcast universe by searching The Daily Show wherever you get your podcast. Watch The Daily Show week nights at eleven ten Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Fair Amount Plus.

Explore more shows from the Daily Show podcast universe by searching The Daily Show wherever you get your podcast. Watch The Daily Show week nights at eleven ten Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Fair Amount Plus.

This has been a Comedy Central podcast.

This has been a Comedy Central podcast.

Yeah.

Yeah.