The Daily Show: Ears EditionBarack Obama - Protecting Democracy and Committment to Facts
“Democracy requires, by definition, getting along with people who don’t agree with you.” Former President Barack Obama discusses why he believes the youth turnout made all the difference in Democratic victories in the midterms; how globalization, disinformation, and the media infrastructure are contributing to the weakening of democracy globally; and what advice he has for Trevor after The Daily Show.
You're listening to Comedy Central.
Our guest tonight is she actual discusts the inaugural Obama Foundation Democracy Forum and how he's training the next generation of young leaders in the US and around the world. Please welcome the forty fourth President of the United States, Barack Obama.
I did that's thank you? Walk All. Yeah, that's right. I should have.
I should I should have brought Michelle here so that she said this is this is how I'd like to be greeted when I come home.
But I see like Michelle's star. Yea, mister President, Welcome to the Data Show.
It is wonderful to say you.
Do you miss your name?
By the way, because everyone calls you mister president, But like I feel like I would like if people call me like mister daily, I would miss just being called Trevor.
Do you miss your name something?
Friends call me back? Okay, Okay, you should probably.
Knew it, you know.
I Welcome to the show.
Let's start with I mean, the most pressing used the midterms just happened. You know, America votes to the houses, flipping Democrats have held onto the Senate. Many credit you for coming out and pushing out, you know, people to vote. I would love to know two parts to that. You know, Number one, do you do you feel pressure whenever you asked to come out. It's like in the movies when you know they need that home run and the bases are load and the team's losing and.
They go, but Rock, we need you to hit this out in the park. We might lose everything. Do you feel the pressure? Does it get to you?
And second of all, what does it say about the state of the Democratic Party that they always need you to come out and do that before an election?
You look, I think that the reason we did better than expected it can be attributed to not me or you know, anything I did, But it has to do with a we recruited some excellent candidates.
You look like good Wes.
Moore and Maryland Josh Shapiro in Pennsylvania. You look at our Senate candidates, you know a John Fetterman and Mark Kelly. You know they are committed, passionate, down to earth. They connect with people, and so I come in mainly to shine a spotlight on them.
So that's point number one.
And the second thing that happened in this midterm and we've seen it now for three elections. So I'm starting to feel pretty hopeful that this is a habit. Young people are voting and you've got higher It has been many times remarked how I got thumped during mid terms during my presidency, and part of it was that voting rates were really low. People In some sense, I think a lot of Democrats felt, all right, Obama's there will be okay. And you know, if it turns out that McConnell and Bayner and others suddenly have power, then that greatly restricts what a president can do. And I think that lesson was learned. Trump comes in and suddenly twenty eighteen, twenty twenty, and now this one, you've seen young people come in and they're typically voting at a rate of seventy to thirty, sixty to forty Democrat to Republican right, and that makes a huge difference, and so they're enthusiasm, I think is what really drove this election.
I agree with that.
In terms of the people who actually voted, but young people don't seem to be turning out as much.
So.
The ones who did vote votes as overwhelmingly Democrats. But then the number of young votes seems to be dwindling from election to election, and many young voters are saying they feel disillusioned. They feel like America hasn't made a way for them, they don't see a future for themselves.
Well, look, what is always true is young people are going to vote at slightly lower rates than old people like me because they've got better things to do. Michelle and I are sitting at home, you know, eating dinner. We've kind of run out of things to say.
Well, let's go vote.
Young people.
Malia and Sasha they're out, you know, they got all kinds of stuff. So so that's always going to be the case that young people's voting rates are a little bit lower. They are higher now than they were in the mid terms when I was president, and in such a polarized environment, one percent, if they're turning out at one percent instead of eighteen percent, makes a difference. That can make an enormous difference.
Right when you look at that tiny difference, you still see the places where, I mean, people got into power despite the fact that they deny elections. I think Republicans got one hundred and seventy election deniers into Congress.
People who don't believe in.
The way America is running its elections, people who don't believe Joe Biden should be president, or they you know, they'll be vague about their answers. What do you think it says about American democracy that so many people are getting elected to these positions when they seem to dismiss the election itself.
Well, the interesting thing is you notice election deniers don't deny their own election. Funny how that works. How many of them actually believe that some of the nonsense that circulates versus those who think it's convenient or it's a way to own the Libs, or it's a way to send a message or align themselves with That's hard to say. But what is important is that because of some really concerted efforts in a lot of important states, some of the most egregious, prominent, and potentially dangerous election deniers, they got thumped, They got beat and particularly in these Secretary of States races and in some cases governor's races, where in the next presidential election you could have somebody who could really do some damage there. I think we held the line. Now, what it does say, more broadly is the fact that not just here in the United States, but around the world, the fundamental precepts of democracy are being challenged. We're not having arguments about policy, but we're having arguments about the rules of the game, which previously we all agreed to. Right there was a notion that all right, we run aloft, whoever gets the most boats actually wins. The loser concedes, goes back and tries to do better next time. And what we've seen now, for a whole host of reasons, is a creeping sense that if the outcomes not what we want, then we can do whatever we want and say whatever we want in order for us to win. And that is profoundly dangerous. And as I said, it's not unique to the United States, but when it happens in the United States, it sends a signal all around the world that weakens democracy. And that's why I think us getting our house.
In order is so important when you look at the discourse in the country as well and around the world. But again, I think you're correct in that America is a leader in what's happening right now.
The discourse has become so toxic.
Now you you were in every single state, you were meeting with people all the way from Iowa, you know, through to California, wherever you you were meeting people on the ground, they were listening to you. There was an openness even though people had different political affiliations. It seems like that has eroded over time. And I wonder what you make of that. Where do you think it's coming from? Do you think social media?
Think? Do you think it's the tenor of politicians and the capitol.
Two things the biggest change that's taking place. When I ran for let's say US Senate in Illinois, you go down state, that's the South. I mean, it's rural, it's conservative. There aren't a lot of folks who look like you or me. And certainly there are more Trevors than there are Baraques in these areas.
But and so, and I'm driving around.
I've got, you know, a map for young people here that it's this paper thing. You can't figure out how to fold it back, but it's how you find your way on roads. But I go into a town and it'd be seventy percent Republican. You know a lot of evangelicals, et cetera. But I could go to a diner or a VFW hall or county fair. I could go to the local newspaper and the owner there is conservative and he's got a bow tie and buzz cut. He's kind of skeptical about my ideas. But there wasn't the filter that had been created by Fox News or the media infrastructure, the sort of right wing conspiracy theory, you know, folks. And so they came at me with an open mind, and I could listen to them, and they could listen to me, and that at the end of the day they might say, well, he's a little liberal for our taste, but we have something in common. He talked about, you know, his mom getting sick. I remember my mom getting sick. You know. It seems like he loves his kids. I love my kids. There was some sense of connection, and I think the filter now has become so thick. It started, I think with Fox News and some of the other traditional media, and now with social media that's gotten turbocharged. If you go into those same communities now, they have so many preconceptions about what somebody like me believes, cares about, etc. That it's very hard to penetrate. So I think the answer is both thinking about information flow and media and how can we break through that information bubble that people are in. That requires, by the way, progressives to get out of their media bubble because we've got some preconceptions that I think create barriers as well. And then working a lot more locally because you notice that when you're on the ground doing stuff, it's harder to stereotype people. And the nationalization of our politics I think has been damaging. The more we can focus on grassroots efforts, real world rather than just virtual meetings conversations, that's what, over time, I think can help strengthen democracy. And that's part of what you know our MSIs has been at the foundation is with young leaders who are working on the ground, coming up with new ideas to create those connections.
Well, I definitely want to speak to you about that. I want to speak to you about democracy worldwide. I want to speak to you about disinformation and what we can do to immunize ourselves from it. But we got to take a quick break. We'll be right back after this with more from President Roccabambo.
Welcome back to the Daily Show.
We are still here with President Barack Obama chattering democracy, disinformation and who is better looking between us.
I want.
Let's start with.
Let's you know, the real question is how will he luck when he's sixty.
Let's you want you know, that is attractive when they're in the.
Come on, you know, I'm almost forty.
That's speaking almost Yeah, almost, I doesn't cant almost doesn't.
Let's a little bit.
Let's talk about I plan to.
Let's talk about your your your foundation, Let's talk about what you're doing. We see you out there, you know, we see you talking about democracy. The world isn't a really interesting place and that you know, a few years ago, I think the world was had like forty nine to fifty percent of the world was you know, you could say the countries were democrat democratic. You know, they had they had elect people won those elections, there was an exchange of power, etc. And now I think seventy percent of the world is living in a state where they either ruled where it's a complete, you know, autocracy, or it isn't a democracy. Two things again, One, why do you think the world has gotten there? You know, if democracy and freedom on things that everybody wishes to have, why does it seem like the world is moving away from that? And then secondly, what can we do or why should we then try to get back to this democracy?
If you look at the trend lines. There are a bunch of factors. I think globalization, the global economy, disrupted a lot of traditional societies. What do you mean, Yeah, well, the global supply chain eliminates industries, eliminates jobst it increases the wealth gap, not only between countries but within countries. Right, So, and then modernity challenges people's traditional notions of religion and family and general roles. And you've got these culture clashes. Right, You're in some village in Yemen and suddenly your kid has a phone and it's looking at the Kardashians and right, and so you get this vertigo and what happened, What you've seen happen, I think in a whole bunch of places is essentially a pushback, a backlash to change that is happening too fast for their comfort. And when people are pushing back against change, then they're vulnerable to politicians who say, you know what, I can make things just like it was back then, when you were feeling more important, you had higher status. You know, you didn't have people who don't look like you suggesting somehow that you know you're doing something wrong, that somehow your traditions are flawed, and that appeal usually also involves saying the problems you're feeling are somebody else's fault. It's those folks there, it's the immigrants, it's gays, it's Hindus, it's Muslims, it's so forth and so.
On, And.
That then gets turbo charged with the information issues that we talked about. And look, democracy requires by definition, getting along with people who don't agree with you. And the other thing that happens is these countries are becoming less homogenious, right, And so you just had a right wing party in Sweden. We always used to Swedes right, they're so chill and democratic, right. But if you've got a whole bunch of immigrants coming in, suddenly people start getting nervous. And so part of what I think we have to do is to stand fast on the principles of equality and self governance and representation and everybody gets a seat at the table. But I think we have to also find a language and a story, a way of telling the story about how we can get together that does not threaten people who are uncomfortable with change as much. And that's going to be different for different countries. But I'll give you an example. There's a young leader who we worked with from Slovenia. She's part of our network, who was an advocate for doing something about domestic violence. The laws of that country didn't have domestic violence. It was a real problem. Ran a referendum, it got crushed, and we worked with her and suggested, well, maybe you want to talk to the people who didn't vote for it. So she goes out to these rural villages with these older, traditional rural, very religious, very conservative women and just interviewed them and listened to them and talk to them. And it's not that they agreed with domestic abuse, it's that they thought their way of life was being challenged. She had adapted their language. Ran the referendum again a few years later, and it passed right because she adopted the language that made them feel as if, Okay, this is not so much of a earthquake a huge change in how we lived, but it's rather affirming our best values. And I think us finding ways to do that in a consistent way will help.
But it's hard.
Yeah, look, for most of human history, democracy is a relatively recent vintage. It's a blip, Yeah tried, Uh, you know, nation state, race, sect you know, that's typically been how we organize things. And it's always easy to say us versus them, that's that's the easy politics. Well, what democracy demands is always a little bit more difficult.
It also feels like, you know when when when you observe it.
There are two elements that I that I often see is, on the one hand, storytelling. As you said, it's often easier to tell a story of blame. Yes, why are things going wrong because of that person? It's simple, there's the person, We've solved it. Why are things going wrong? Well, there's a confluence of factors, and you have this, and you have the economy. You got to understand this applied to That's not an answer for many people. And when you sell freedom, they got I don't. I can't eat freedom. I can't buy a house with freedom. I can't, you know. And then the second part is what you're talking about, you know, the US versus them, the who is and who isn't. Sometimes I think for many people it feels like it feels like the populists come in and just do you know whether it is in Brazil?
You know whether it's b Ornaro, you know whether it's in America?
With Trump where they go, they're just going to do and whether they do or don't actually do it, it feels like they're going to do. But then some people go, oh, but when we get the freedom people they want to talk and they want to discuss, and it seems incremental and it seems like things won't change. Is there a way to combat that because it is a feeling a lot of the time.
Well, yeah, Look, if you want to be a progressive, pluralless tolerant democrat, uh and I don't mean small D democrat, I don't mean democratic party, you know, you can't be a worse I mean you've got to have a story that with some swag. You've got to to be able to sell the future and deliver and also call out the fact that what those folks say they're gonna do, they almost never do, right, Because the truth of the matter is is that when you look at we have experiments those countries that have the ability to harness everyone and everybody participates and there's consent and people feel like, all right, this is working for us versus places that are failed states. You know, the track record of democracy is pretty good, but you know, we have to be forceful in making our argument. And what is true is that you know, we can't just talk. We got to walk the walk, which is why you know we're having a form.
In New York.
One of the topics that we're talking about is inclusive capitalism. It people are when you think about, let's say, here in the United States, there's greater appeal of right wing populism in a lot of communities, rural communities that they're not wrong that the economy, the global economy, has shifted away from them to urban centers, even in their own states, and so the opportunities in Austin, Texas are different than in a rural community in East Texas, and people notice that. So we have to spend some time thinking about how are we delivering on behalf of people whose lives who used to work in a factory, who used to you know, farm for a living and have dignity and worth and stability and security in those lives, and now suddenly they don't feel as if they've got the lottery ticket in this in this existing economy. That does have to be addressed. And in places like Africa, you know right now you have let's say, China coming in heavy presence in a lot of these countries providing a lot of foreign aid, a lot of strings attached, a lot of Chinese workers coming in to build big buildings, et cetera. But if we're not there, if we're not helping build that road, if we're not there to you know, build that port, then naturally people are going to start thinking, well, maybe that's a that's a recipe for bettering my life, as opposed to you know, some flowery language but has nothing behind it.
I wonder, though, do you think inclusive capitalism is somewhat of a paradox. You know, it feels like it's possible, it feels you think it's because it feels it feels like, I mean, capitalism is designed to extract as much wealth as possible from every single interaction that it can.
Look you know, I mentioned ye know Sweden and some of the problems they're having because of immigration. On the other hand, you look at Scandinavian countries, they're capitalist countries and those work very well.
But some people would argue that their foundation is more you know, socialists, and then they go with It's almost like they go with socialists first and then capitalism is our undercurrent.
Not really you know, well, if you go there, essentially they people are taxed more and they have more common goods. But you're still going around at a job and you get paid and you know you can't It's not like you're going into the store just grabbing whatever you want walking out, fish man, you got to pay for it, right then? The guy the cash registers checking and did America profit here today?
Right?
But the reason I'm asking that is because I and maybe it's the words that fail us sometimes. I often, you know, I'll talk to my friends about this. It's interesting that we sort of stopped. We went, oh, there's socialism, there's you know, there's this, there's the communism, this capital and then we just stopped, like this is it?
This capitalism? And that's that.
I sometimes wonder is there not something better? Is there something we could be?
I think there is.
I maybe I should be what is inclusive capitalism?
The reason I just used, uh, let's say a Denmark is an example is not because it's going to work perfectly in India and the United States, et cetera. The point though, is is they they've got some blend, some mix, right right, There is an advantage in terms of efficiency and also freedom.
To a market system.
Okay, you have a control system. You know, some guy in an office is deciding how many potatoes we're going to grow this year. That usually doesn't work.
Right.
The flip side of it is that what we've also learned is that if some guy in a boardroom is deciding I'm going to ravage the environment to do whatever I want, that doesn't work either. So we're going to have a blend of some sort. We want some collective decision making about the social good, and we want something that's sufficient and dynamic and allows us to exercise our innovation and freedom. And we don't need to worry so much about the labels as we do about being practical and thinking about what's working and what isn't. And this is going back to the information issues. This is part of why to me, one of the biggest challenges of democracy is not just the mechanics of elections or the independent judiciary. Those things are all important, but this is why this information and media issue is so important, because what we've seen here in the United States and elsewhere is an abandonment of a commitment to facts and reason and logic and you know, stuff that.
Is useful.
And necessary, necessary, And if we can't have a debate based on facts, then we can't get to better solutions. Right, we start talking in slogans and nonsense and there's no reality check. We just make stuff up. I didn't lose an election. You know there's something broken over there, and it doesn't and it's impervious to fects. So so part of what I think, why I've been spending a lot of time thinking about this disinformation issue, is how do we in how we teach our kids in you know, either industry standards and or regulation of these social media platforms. How do we get back to the point where you can have opinions We all do, but facts matter, and proof matters, and our capacity to debate and say, you know what, if we do things this way, it might work better, and then you may disagree, but at least we agree to a set of rules whereby we can arrive at a better solution.
You think it's possible to get to that place when almost half, let's just talk about the United States, almost half the country says, well, what are those rules and why are you even deciding them?
And why are we having this conversation?
You are not even effect, how do you I honestly mean, how do you get to that place with people.
You can We're not.
The interesting thing is, even in those places that are just inundated with what I consider to be nonsense and lies and distortions, when people operate in their own life lives, they're still operating on facts right on their jobs. When they're coaching their kids the league or their soccer game or football game, they don't let the ref just kind of say, you know what, this time, we're just going to get five points for the touchdown. It's like wait, wait, wait, folks on the sidelines say nope, it's six points for the touchdown, and then you get the extra point. And so we abide by all kinds of facts in our own lives. It's just this national story that is being told where we allow lives to be told, and we accept them mainly because it turns out that when we tell a story about the other side, it makes us feel better. It's like, ah, you know, Trevor, he's a jackass. You should see and you happen to be sitting there, and and and so we enjoyed the performative aspects of and stuff up and part of that is because we don't think there are consequences to it. Now, what we've learned from the election of my successor from the pandemic, from the insurrection is actually the stories we tell do matter, and you know, having some baseline of sticking to the truth when you're telling stories about our country, about policy, but also about the other side, that matters. And I like to think that part of what happened to this election is people said, Okay, you know what, some of this stuff's getting a little too crazy. It turns out that there is a you know, a majority of country that does prefer normal not crazy. And that's and that's that's a basis for hope.
I've told you for hours about this. I know you don't have the time.
It has been wonderful having you here, though it's also been wonderful seeing you know what what you're getting up to, because after you you know, we have the pleasure of interviewing you at the White House just before you left, and then afterwards I saw you kite surfing and I, uh.
I loved it.
I loved it, by the way, great technique. But I often wonders, like, you know, what, what is mister President going to do next where does he go? And you know, you started producing shows about issues around the world, and now you've got this forum. I wondered if maybe you know, you have any tips for me as you know, because well because because you, I mean you and I like we're basically, you know, we're basically saying.
You know, you know, I think.
I think you're gonna have to, uh really focus on relearning things like driving, pressing your own elevator buttons.
I think.
When was the last time you heard the drag players on streets.
Where I go? I take myself. Yeah, we have very you you you don't like, you're very like you know.
That's like I said, you missed the president forever. You have secret service forever.
That's correct, I do, and and it, uh, I get to keep I still am in a bubble. I thought I thought I could escape it quick story. Since we're in New York. I used to say, Oh, you know what, once I get out of here, I'm going to just be able to like walk through Central Park and it's going to be you know, and I'll just put like on a baseball cap and it's going to be fine. And yeah, Michelle's all like, yeah, okay, good luck with that. And the first time I tried it, I got like half a block and then suddenly there was this swan and their phones and traffic stopping and.
It didn't work.
So so you know, uh, I guess what I would say though, is uh that you will be missed here. But and uh but but but we were talking backstage. Uh, you're already following. One piece of advice that I would have is leave when your poll numbers are high. That that's how they'll remember you.
So I'm actually yeah, I'm excited. I'm gonna you know, I'm gonna go on the road. Yes, I mean I've said this to you before.
You know the way it's the White House correspond instead and Georgia when you're doing the speak, you're a very funny guy.
So you want me to open for you? I got some shows in Chicago.
It doesn't you know what, not even opened. I wouldn't there we could you know, you can't open for me. You you still missed the president banter.
We just do like a banter at headlining tour. You know what I mean, We'll call it haff and half, you know what I mean.
I like that we can do it, we can do it.
Welcome President Morocco. Com Everybody episode.
Explore more shows from the Daily Show podcast universe by searching The Daily Show wherever you.
Get your podcasts.
Watch The Daily Show week nights at eleven ten Central on Comedy Central, and stream full episodes anytime on Fairmouth Plucks.
This has been a Comedy Central podcast
